Full Transcript:

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John Kennedy: Hello, welcome to Tape Notes.

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John Kennedy: Thank you for joining us.

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John Kennedy: I’m John Kennedy.

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John Kennedy: And if I sound a bit croaky today, it’s because I’ve just been at Truck Festival in Oxfordshire, comparing one of the stages there to this feeling stage, four days in a row.

00:00:11.800 –> 00:00:14.960
John Kennedy: And after a while, you know, it kind of takes its toll.

00:00:14.960 –> 00:00:17.180
John Kennedy: So I’m still kind of recovering from that.

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John Kennedy: It was such a great weekend.

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John Kennedy: But I am very excited to tell you about this week’s new episode, which is with the brilliant Joe.

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John Kennedy: Yes, I’m talking about the Joe, DJO, the musical moniker of Joe Keery, possibly best known to many as Steve Harrington in Stranger Things.

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John Kennedy: But beyond acting, Joe is a seriously talented musician and creative force.

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John Kennedy: I had the pleasure of sitting down with him and his longtime friend, collaborator and producer, Adam Thein, who’s also currently playing keyboards in Joe’s band.

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John Kennedy: And we dug into the making of Joe’s latest album, The Crux, and it was absolutely fascinating.

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John Kennedy: We filmed and taped the conversation at Platoon Studios in Tileyard, and it was a real treat.

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John Kennedy: Really, really went deep.

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John Kennedy: Great stories and look behind the scenes of how they do what they do, especially how Joe balances each of his worlds, acting and music.

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John Kennedy: If you would like to watch the full video podcast, including screen capture of Adam’s Pro Tools sessions, you can find it over on the Tape Notes Patreon page.

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John Kennedy: All you have to do is just head to patreon.com/tapenotes.

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John Kennedy: And by becoming a patron, you’ll unlock access to all of our back catalog of full video episodes that often have bonus footage and extended conversations, as well as loads of exclusive extras like episode previews, gear rundowns, behind the scenes photos, and loads more.

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John Kennedy: And as you’ll hear in the episode, we also try to include as many listener questions as we can.

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John Kennedy: So if there’s something you’ve always wanted to ask one of our upcoming guests, all you have to do is go to Patreon.

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John Kennedy: Patreon is the place to do it.

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John Kennedy: You can join us for as little as £3 a month.

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John Kennedy: And if you’re already a patron, thank you.

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John Kennedy: Your support makes this show possible.

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John Kennedy: A big shout out as well to our partners at Tape It, the iPhone recording app built for musicians by musicians.

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John Kennedy: There are loads of great features in there on Tape It to make music making and voice note taking that much easier.

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John Kennedy: And they’ve also just launched a brilliant new feature called layering.

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John Kennedy: More about that later in the show.

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John Kennedy: But if you want to jump in and try it out now, all you have to do is head to tape.it forward slash Tape Notes, search Tape It on the app store, or hit the link in the show notes.

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John Kennedy: But now without further ado, let’s get started.

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John Kennedy: Hello, and welcome to Tape Notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

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John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

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John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tape Notes is Joe and producer Adam Thein to talk about how they wrote, recorded, and produced the album The Crux.

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John Kennedy: Joe Keery, otherwise known as Joe, DJO, is an American actor and musician.

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John Kennedy: Growing up in Massachusetts, Joe was heavily involved in the arts, including performing in arts programs and high school theater and playing music.

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John Kennedy: At college, he and several friends formed the psychedelic rock band Post Animal, releasing their debut EP in 2015.

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John Kennedy: Around the same time, he landed his breakout role in the hit Netflix series Stranger Things, gaining widespread recognition as an actor.

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John Kennedy: While leaving the band in 2019 due to acting commitments, he continued to write and record, and later that year, he introduced his solo project under the name Joe, with his debut album, Twenty Twenty.

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John Kennedy: His second record, Decide, arrived shortly after in 2022.

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John Kennedy: Drawing the attention of fans and the wider music industry alike, the record was propelled by the viral success of the single, End of Beginning, which charted on the Billboard Hot 100 and earned him a Brit Award nomination for Best International Song.

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John Kennedy: Continuing to work alongside longtime collaborator, producer Adam Thein, The Crux, his third record, was released in 2025.

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John Kennedy: Further expanding his vintage-inspired 70s and 80s influences, the record fuses synthy new wave textures alongside more organic rock and power pop sounds.

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John Kennedy: Adam Thein is an American producer, musician and mixer currently based in Houston, Texas.

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John Kennedy: Growing up in a musical household, Adam began learning piano at the age of five, going on to study music theory at Grinnell College.

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John Kennedy: After many years cutting his teeth in various music scenes across the US., it was in Madison, Wisconsin, where he co-founded the band Dolores in 2013, which sparked his interest in recording and producing.

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John Kennedy: The band’s first EP, Nectar Fields, caught the attention of fellow Midwestern musicians post-Animal, including their drummer at the time, Joe Keery.

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John Kennedy: This would eventually lead Joe to approach Adam about collaborating with him on his solo project in 2017, first as a mixing engineer and later as co-producer.

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John Kennedy: The two have since worked together on every Joe release, starting with Twenty Nineteen’s Twenty Twenty through to this year’s The Crux.

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John Kennedy: His work on these albums has led to dozens of collaborations mixing or producing with a variety of artists, and Adam is now currently touring as the keyboardist for Joe’s live performances.

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John Kennedy: Today, I’m at Platoon Studios and I’m joined by Joe and Adam.

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John Kennedy: And what better way to start than by hearing something from The Crux.

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John Kennedy: This is Back On You.

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John Kennedy: It is Back On You by Joe from the album The Crux.

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John Kennedy: And I’m very pleased to say that Joe and Adam Thein are here with me in the studios of Platoon in North London.

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John Kennedy: Hello.

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Joe: Hello, thanks for having us.

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John Kennedy: It’s great to have you here.

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John Kennedy: And it seemed appropriate playing Back On You because you’re in the midst of the Back On You tour, which is why you’re in London and why we’re able to meet up with you and find out all about the creation of The Crux.

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John Kennedy: So thank you for sharing your time with us, because I know it’s a pretty intense time being on tour.

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Adam: Well, thank you for having us.

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John Kennedy: We’re both super excited to be here.

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John Kennedy: It’s great.

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John Kennedy: And Back On You is one of my favorites from the record, partly because it’s such a variety of different sounds going on there and it’s a real rocker.

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John Kennedy: But I think it’s got a strong family thing going on.

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John Kennedy: You sing about sisters, and are your sisters singing on that?

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Joe: No, I don’t have any sisters.

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Joe: No, it’s a total fabrication.

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Joe: No, yeah, they actually, it was an idea that we were kind of messing with as the record was unfolding, we kind of were talking about background vocals and how we’re gonna approach them.

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Joe: And usually it was just me kind of doing doubles of myself.

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Joe: But we were inspired by the production of Dan Nigro to maybe start including some like gang vocals.

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Joe: It was an idea that Adam had.

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Joe: And we were recording in New York and thinking, who do we know in New York?

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Joe: My sisters live in New York.

00:08:06.758 –> 00:08:13.498
Joe: So it was me, Adam, Austin, Christy, the assistant engineer, and then Kate and Emma Keery.

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Joe: Doing pretty much the gang vocals for everything apart from some other songs, I’d say.

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Joe: Like the post-Animal guys are on this one as well, which I had forgotten about until just this moment.

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Joe: Javi and Dahl, and Caroline actually is on this one as well, now that I’m saying it.

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Adam: Yeah, and Lizzie.

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Joe: And Lizzie is also.

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John Kennedy: So it’s not just a family affair.

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John Kennedy: There’s a whole gang of people.

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John Kennedy: But I do like the idea that you’re singing a song about sisters, and you get your sisters to do some singing on it.

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Joe: Kind of nice.

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Joe: And sort of, they kind of knew it was maybe about them, but not until the song was really done did they hear the full thing.

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Joe: So it was also kind of like fun to have them along, and they were singing on this one and others.

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Adam: And then the verse vocals would always be muted when they were in the studio, like, don’t let them know, don’t play that.

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John Kennedy: Right.

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John Kennedy: So they didn’t actually hear the verse.

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John Kennedy: That’s crazy.

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Joe: Yeah, not until it was all done.

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John Kennedy: Yeah, that’s kind of a trick.

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John Kennedy: I don’t know.

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John Kennedy: Yeah, I trick them.

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John Kennedy: Amazing.

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John Kennedy: So The Crux was recorded at Electric Lady Studios in New York.

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John Kennedy: Quite a legendary place.

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John Kennedy: When and how did it all come together?

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Joe: Well, we finished Decide, the record we worked on before came out in 2022.

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Joe: And then pretty much right away, I was working on a couple of different acting jobs.

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Joe: I was in Calgary and Rome and a couple of different places.

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Joe: And I toured the studio because a friend of a friend knew Lee, who runs the studio.

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Joe: And I think it was October of 2022 is when I walked through and went, wow, this place is incredible.

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Joe: And then I think in December was the first session that I went to.

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Joe: And that’s when we kind of kicked it off.

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Joe: And then pretty much working on and off until, I guess it would have been…

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Adam: Last October, maybe?

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Joe: End of summer?

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Adam: Last session we did there, maybe it was September.

00:10:05.918 –> 00:10:06.478
Adam: Yeah.

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Adam: Finished up, Delete Yeah, actually was the last track we recorded on.

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John Kennedy: So you’re kind of working on it off and on for two years or so.

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Adam: Yeah.

00:10:15.438 –> 00:10:18.258
John Kennedy: But I guess balancing all the different things you’ve got going on.

00:10:18.258 –> 00:10:20.378
John Kennedy: So finding that time.

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John Kennedy: It’s nice you mentioned Delete Yeah.

00:10:21.518 –> 00:10:23.818
John Kennedy: That’s the first song we’re going to look at in depth.

00:10:23.818 –> 00:10:28.798
John Kennedy: Maybe Adam, you could give us a blast of the master, and then we can break it down and start from the beginning.

00:10:28.798 –> 00:10:29.198
John Kennedy: Sounds good.

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John Kennedy: It is Deletia by Joe from The Crux.

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John Kennedy: So, how did this one start?

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Joe: I think it was an idea of, I think it was, I got an acoustic guitar to this really great place called Old Style Guitars in LA that a couple people had recommended to me when I was in Calgary working in the fall and spring of 2022.

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Joe: And the goal was to just try to get better at playing acoustic guitar.

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Joe: It had been a while since I had kind of like had one around all the time.

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Joe: And I thought for like writing new songs it’d be good to have around.

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Joe: We wanted to kind of have a song forward approach after going so in-depth production-wise for Decide.

00:12:22.941 –> 00:12:29.941
Joe: We drank a bunch of coffee and worked on, I don’t know, that we just wanted to kind of get back to the basics.

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Adam: It was a very in-the-box sort of songwriting and production on Decide.

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Adam: And I feel like at the end of production on that record, we were in Sound Factory Studios in LA.

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Adam: And we had worked on End of Beginning, I feel like, was maybe the first one that came together really quickly as like a more band in a room kind of production style.

00:12:48.941 –> 00:12:51.281
Adam: And I feel like that was super inspiring to you.

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Adam: And you carried that forward from then on.

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Adam: Like, this is how I want to do the next record.

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Joe: And so those were kind of like, that was like, get a little idea and then kind of keep it.

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Joe: And then instead of trying to demo it on your own, because it’s just so difficult sometimes to demo things out in your apartment and get sounds that you really like, to hold on to it and then do it when you’re in a studio.

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Joe: So I got this little Deliche idea was, I think I was in outside of Naples, Italy.

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Joe: I was staying in this tiny little hotel and waiting to do a night shoot and grabbed just a little thing.

00:13:23.501 –> 00:13:26.981
Joe: And then instantly it was kind of like, oh, this is kind of cool.

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John Kennedy: So are you recording these ideas on your phone?

00:13:29.241 –> 00:13:30.181
John Kennedy: Is that what you’re doing?

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Joe: Yeah, just a voice memo.

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John Kennedy: Do you have any of that gold to share with us?

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Adam: I changed the names of these, so I’m hoping this is the right one.

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Joe: We’ll see which one it is.

00:14:01.651 –> 00:14:03.611
Joe: I think that’s the only lyric that really survived.

00:14:09.271 –> 00:14:11.011
Joe: This is fun and exposing.

00:14:11.011 –> 00:14:14.031
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:14:14.031 –> 00:14:15.011
John Kennedy: Yeah, sorry about that.

00:14:15.011 –> 00:14:15.531
Joe: No, it’s good.

00:14:15.531 –> 00:14:16.211
Adam: I don’t know.

00:14:16.531 –> 00:14:19.891
Adam: Then this is the…

00:14:19.891 –> 00:14:25.671
Joe: This was the chorus for a while, but…

00:14:25.671 –> 00:14:26.271
Joe: More of a bridge.

00:14:26.271 –> 00:14:28.771
Adam: It eventually became the bridge of the track.

00:14:28.791 –> 00:14:29.731
Adam: That used to be the chorus.

00:14:46.712 –> 00:14:55.072
Joe: I feel like sometimes it can be very quick that the concept for a song can come together, but this one kind of took a little longer, to be honest with you.

00:14:55.792 –> 00:15:03.972
Joe: It was one that we liked the instrumental, really liked both of the parts, but it never quite sort of crystallized.

00:15:03.972 –> 00:15:10.552
Adam: Could never figure out how to finish it, but I think we all felt like, oh, there’s something here.

00:15:10.552 –> 00:15:30.912
Adam: Honestly, I’m pretty proud that we finished it, because a lot of times there’s been so many ideas like this where you’re like, you get it 60%, 70% of the way there, and then you’re just like, you hit a wall with it and can’t figure out what to do with it, and this is the first time I feel like we really intentionally pushed through that and finished it.

00:15:30.912 –> 00:15:47.972
Joe: Because for a while it was verse, old chorus, which is a bridge, it was that just basically, first chorus, verse, chorus, and then we tried a bunch of different ways to end it, and we just couldn’t kind of crack it, but I think it was really your idea that maybe that was a bridge, really.

00:15:47.972 –> 00:15:54.812
Joe: Because the chords of that are really kind of more of like a passing thing and less of something that somebody’s really gonna be, maybe.

00:15:54.812 –> 00:15:59.912
Adam: Yeah, I don’t know why I felt that way, but just felt like, oh yeah, sounds like a bridge to me more than a chorus.

00:15:59.912 –> 00:16:11.232
John Kennedy: And that evolution into the next stage of the song, is that documented along the way, or are these things that you’re discussing, and then when you get in the studio, then you sort it out there?

00:16:11.792 –> 00:16:14.732
Joe: Yeah, I think that we have another evolution of this.

00:16:14.732 –> 00:16:16.872
Adam: Yeah, I’ve got a few different versions of this.

00:16:16.872 –> 00:16:22.152
Adam: And this is kind of one of the benefits of working so slowly, chunks at a time.

00:16:22.152 –> 00:16:25.232
Adam: I feel like we had time to think about these things in between.

00:16:25.232 –> 00:16:26.332
Joe: Yeah, sometimes like a month.

00:16:26.332 –> 00:16:32.332
Adam: Yeah, and you’re kind of listening to that version, and thinking about, oh, what could we try next time we’re in there?

00:16:32.332 –> 00:16:34.312
Adam: But this was your first version.

00:16:34.312 –> 00:16:39.712
Adam: I think you had done a session, just you and John, and it was a little bit slower.

00:16:40.332 –> 00:16:41.312
Adam: This is the first production.

00:16:41.312 –> 00:16:42.812
Joe: Wow, I forgot about this one.

00:16:50.277 –> 00:16:51.617
Joe: What synth is that?

00:16:51.617 –> 00:16:53.957
Adam: I don’t know.

00:16:53.957 –> 00:16:54.657
Adam: It must be a Gino.

00:17:00.477 –> 00:17:02.437
Joe: It’s kind of almost like Mac DeMarco more.

00:17:02.437 –> 00:17:02.617
Adam: Yeah.

00:17:02.617 –> 00:17:05.277
Joe: More like Bruce Springsteen than what it ended up being.

00:17:05.277 –> 00:17:09.957
Adam: Honestly, I was pulling these up the other day, and I was like, oh man, this is pretty cool.

00:17:09.957 –> 00:17:11.757
Adam: I like this version too.

00:17:11.817 –> 00:17:12.517
Joe: Oh, cool, man.

00:17:19.677 –> 00:17:23.077
Adam: And I’m just going to jump ahead a little bit.

00:17:23.077 –> 00:17:29.377
Adam: You didn’t have the chorus vocals in here at all.

00:17:29.377 –> 00:17:33.457
Adam: And then there’s this entirely different outro too.

00:17:33.457 –> 00:17:34.017
Joe: Oh, wow.

00:17:34.017 –> 00:17:35.137
Joe: Yeah, I remember this.

00:17:35.137 –> 00:17:35.777
Joe: This was cool.

00:17:39.498 –> 00:17:47.918
Joe: Yeah, there was also a point in this track where this was when I was really inspired by what’s that Cher song.

00:17:48.978 –> 00:17:49.758
Adam: I’m not sure.

00:17:49.758 –> 00:17:52.318
Joe: Where there’s that big cutout and there’s a big modulation.

00:17:52.318 –> 00:17:53.538
Adam: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:53.538 –> 00:17:55.998
Joe: I was like, maybe that’s what we should try to do.

00:17:55.998 –> 00:17:56.618
Adam: Yeah.

00:17:56.618 –> 00:17:58.578
Joe: Not this version, but a different.

00:18:01.838 –> 00:18:03.458
Adam: I have no idea what happened to this.

00:18:03.478 –> 00:18:05.858
Joe: I think I was listening to Men I Trust, honestly.

00:18:06.218 –> 00:18:07.918
Joe: On the airplane a lot.

00:18:09.798 –> 00:18:12.138
Adam: So that was, that’s version one.

00:18:12.138 –> 00:18:14.698
Adam: That was the first session you did with John, I think.

00:18:14.698 –> 00:18:15.538
Joe: When was that?

00:18:15.538 –> 00:18:16.418
John Kennedy: Which John is this?

00:18:16.758 –> 00:18:17.518
Joe: It’s John Rooney.

00:18:17.518 –> 00:18:19.638
Joe: We worked with him on the whole record.

00:18:19.638 –> 00:18:20.658
Joe: He engineered the whole record.

00:18:20.658 –> 00:18:29.518
Joe: And did, you know, especially actually on this song as well, in the bridge section, you know, kind of shaped some of the production stuff that we ended up doing.

00:18:30.758 –> 00:18:42.838
Joe: The kind of call and response to sort of synth bass parts that ended up existing in the song, that, blah, blah, those things were things that, you know, we sat down and we kind of shaped.

00:18:42.838 –> 00:18:46.758
Joe: But yeah, he played a large instrumental role in this entire record.

00:18:46.758 –> 00:18:47.518
Adam: Big time.

00:18:47.518 –> 00:18:51.978
Adam: We used a lot of his personal gear, a lot of his own synths and stuff, made it…

00:18:51.978 –> 00:18:53.318
Joe: Very gracious guy.

00:18:53.318 –> 00:18:54.038
Adam: Yeah.

00:18:54.038 –> 00:18:57.958
John Kennedy: But at this point, this isn’t Electric Lady, this is somewhere else.

00:18:57.958 –> 00:18:59.278
Adam: No, this was Electric Lady.

00:18:59.278 –> 00:19:06.698
Joe: The first one was, the first one was, I guess we would have been in Italy, and then this one was in January, it looks like.

00:19:06.698 –> 00:19:12.018
Adam: Yeah, January, or sorry, June 26, 2023, and then December 21st.

00:19:12.018 –> 00:19:16.138
Adam: I’m not sure how much we want to look into this, but I guess we have a bunch of different versions.

00:19:16.138 –> 00:19:18.678
Adam: Oh, there’s the locking intro.

00:19:22.798 –> 00:19:23.598
Joe: Bye-bye synth bass.

00:19:23.598 –> 00:19:25.218
Adam: Yeah.

00:19:25.218 –> 00:19:28.398
Adam: You had swapped it out with the…

00:19:28.418 –> 00:19:28.998
Adam: E-bass?

00:19:28.998 –> 00:19:30.938
Adam: E-bass.

00:19:30.938 –> 00:19:37.838
Adam: This also is Wes now on drums, our friend Wes Toledo who’s in O Sanimal and tours in the Jo band also.

00:19:37.838 –> 00:19:38.738
Adam: Right.

00:19:38.738 –> 00:19:39.478
Joe: His signature…

00:19:44.138 –> 00:19:46.998
Joe: He’s got the strongest snare hand in the game.

00:19:52.698 –> 00:19:53.698
Adam: Same verse still.

00:20:06.158 –> 00:20:11.518
Joe: I also think a major difference between this and what we ended up with the final was just the guitar production.

00:20:13.758 –> 00:20:19.018
Joe: Kind of is this sort of like roomy, springy sort of thing going on.

00:20:19.518 –> 00:20:19.858
Joe: Mm-hmm.

00:20:19.858 –> 00:20:23.678
Joe: Instead of what we ended up with, which was a much more like police-driven chorus-y.

00:20:26.918 –> 00:20:29.038
Joe: There’s really, really, really junk.

00:20:29.038 –> 00:20:31.098
Adam: Yep.

00:20:31.158 –> 00:20:31.878
Adam: Oh my god.

00:20:39.412 –> 00:20:40.532
Adam: It feels so slow.

00:20:40.532 –> 00:20:45.432
Adam: That was another thing that changed in other iterations, was speeding up the track a bit.

00:20:45.432 –> 00:20:47.132
Joe: That’s something that you never really know.

00:20:47.132 –> 00:21:01.032
Joe: I feel like with Potion, it was a very similar thing is like, when you’re kind of like stuck inside of the song, when you’re working on it, it’s really hard to step back and have any sort of objective view about the key or the speed of the track.

00:21:01.032 –> 00:21:09.492
Joe: And I think throughout the process of working on this record, we really tried to better suit the key and the tempo as we were going on.

00:21:09.492 –> 00:21:15.932
Joe: I think like, this is obviously a lot too slow, you know, so it’s kind of interesting to look back at it.

00:21:15.932 –> 00:21:19.012
Joe: And so important too, because it really can change the feel of something.

00:21:19.012 –> 00:21:19.672
Adam: Definitely.

00:21:19.892 –> 00:21:23.372
John Kennedy: Is there a moment when you suddenly see the light and think, oh, it’s too slow?

00:21:23.372 –> 00:21:24.852
Joe: It’s like a power of attrition, really.

00:21:24.892 –> 00:21:32.012
Joe: I feel like, also showing it to other people that you trust and knowing when the right time to do that is too.

00:21:32.012 –> 00:21:34.372
Joe: But yeah, good notes can be given from anywhere.

00:21:34.372 –> 00:21:36.552
Adam: Yeah, yeah, if you’re open to it.

00:21:36.752 –> 00:21:46.352
Adam: You’ve gotten really good at that, at kind of distilling down feedback, because we shared a lot of this stuff pretty early with friends, like a big group of friends.

00:21:46.352 –> 00:21:49.712
Adam: And I feel like you just had feedback coming from every direction.

00:21:49.712 –> 00:21:50.732
Joe: That was probably a mistake.

00:21:50.792 –> 00:21:53.232
Adam: Yeah, maybe we wouldn’t do that the same next time.

00:21:53.232 –> 00:21:54.652
Adam: But it was helpful.

00:21:54.652 –> 00:22:02.412
Adam: I mean, some of the feedback, it’s sort of, you’ve gotten really good, I think, at like, your taste is one of your, maybe your greatest strength.

00:22:02.412 –> 00:22:07.232
Adam: So it’s like knowing when to act on a note or be like, no.

00:22:07.232 –> 00:22:09.812
Joe: It’s important to try stuff, though, because you never know.

00:22:09.812 –> 00:22:19.592
John Kennedy: But it seems to me that you’re trying stuff all the time, both musically, but also the way you deliver the words, how you deliver them, you’re going to sing them, you’re going to speak them, a combination of the two.

00:22:20.532 –> 00:22:23.232
John Kennedy: And it evolves across the record and your records.

00:22:23.432 –> 00:22:24.712
John Kennedy: You evolve that all the time.

00:22:25.232 –> 00:22:26.312
John Kennedy: You’re constantly playing.

00:22:26.772 –> 00:22:28.172
John Kennedy: How do you decide?

00:22:28.172 –> 00:22:30.932
Joe: I feel like it’s almost out of the inverse of what you’re saying.

00:22:31.332 –> 00:22:35.132
Joe: It’s from a place of just maybe not wanting to do the same thing twice.

00:22:35.132 –> 00:22:43.332
Joe: That’s what I love about a lot of Paul McCartney’s work, I feel like, is that his voice throughout all of his music is always changing.

00:22:43.332 –> 00:22:45.252
Joe: You’re always getting something different.

00:22:45.252 –> 00:22:46.992
Joe: He sings to the character of the song.

00:22:47.032 –> 00:22:48.292
Joe: I feel like Bowie does this as well.

00:22:49.992 –> 00:22:50.932
Joe: I just really love that.

00:22:50.932 –> 00:22:51.992
Joe: I think it’s really interesting.

00:22:52.772 –> 00:23:00.352
Joe: I mean, I think there’s also something to be said about a record that has a very distinct vibe in the whole thing and you can get really lost in something like that.

00:23:00.352 –> 00:23:05.612
Joe: It’s a part of maybe my ADD brain, too, is not wanting to do the same thing twice.

00:23:05.612 –> 00:23:15.092
Joe: But yeah, you can definitely tell, especially for the vocals, this started like a rock and roll nightclub, Bruce Springsteen wannabe thing and ended up somewhere else, really.

00:23:15.912 –> 00:23:20.432
John Kennedy: Yeah, I mean, it’s pretty intimate at times on Deletion, I think, the way that you’re delivering the voice.

00:23:20.432 –> 00:23:26.052
John Kennedy: But you also seem to be having quite a bit of fun with the words and the internal rhymes and all this kind of stuff.

00:23:26.052 –> 00:23:26.552
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:23:26.552 –> 00:23:29.872
Joe: I think also what ended up happening is like, we talked about this all the time.

00:23:29.872 –> 00:23:35.412
Joe: The costume of the song was like there, like we kind of know like the sonic vibe of the song.

00:23:35.412 –> 00:23:44.552
Joe: But then I think what it really took was when we eventually did find the chorus that we liked, we did a couple versions instrumentally of it.

00:23:44.632 –> 00:23:53.332
Joe: But then, what really made it click was like singing the lyrics and finding that melody, da da da da da da da da, over that section.

00:23:53.332 –> 00:23:58.192
Joe: And then just making it really as personal as possible and singing about things from my own life.

00:23:58.192 –> 00:24:02.692
John Kennedy: So what should we hear from the actual track or the evolution of the track further?

00:24:02.692 –> 00:24:04.352
Adam: Let’s see, this is the next iteration.

00:24:04.352 –> 00:24:07.032
Adam: This is version 16, it looks like.

00:24:12.812 –> 00:24:15.332
Adam: Verse, bailed on the verse.

00:24:15.332 –> 00:24:23.472
Adam: I think this was like, it was at the end of a block of a session, like a week or 10 days or something at electric glating.

00:24:23.472 –> 00:24:25.412
Adam: I remember it was like the last night.

00:24:25.412 –> 00:24:25.692
Joe: Yeah.

00:24:25.692 –> 00:24:27.172
Adam: It was like 11 PM.

00:24:27.172 –> 00:24:29.252
Adam: This is so typical.

00:24:29.252 –> 00:24:31.092
Adam: And then that’s when you kind of cracked the chorus.

00:24:31.092 –> 00:24:32.092
Adam: But let me just jump to the-

00:24:32.092 –> 00:24:33.372
Joe: This is so typical, Ned.

00:24:33.372 –> 00:24:35.072
Joe: Oh yeah, we had pre-chorus on this part.

00:24:45.498 –> 00:24:50.038
Joe: And it was like, okay, well now, you gotta go back to Houston, I gotta go back to Atlanta.

00:24:50.038 –> 00:24:52.378
Joe: Now it’s gonna get even harder, because we can’t finish it.

00:24:52.378 –> 00:25:02.458
Adam: I think you had been in the booth for like 45 minutes, just trying, like chorus was on loop, and yeah, this is basically when we finally cracked a chorus that felt right.

00:25:02.738 –> 00:25:10.818
John Kennedy: So at this point, you’re walking away from the song, you’ve got it to the point that you want it to be, but you’ve got other commitments, so you gotta go away.

00:25:10.818 –> 00:25:11.118
Adam: I know.

00:25:11.118 –> 00:25:11.818
Joe: That sucks.

00:25:11.818 –> 00:25:14.678
John Kennedy: And then you gotta reconvene, or find a time to reconvene.

00:25:14.798 –> 00:25:18.878
Joe: And it honestly was, it was hard once we had to come back to it.

00:25:18.878 –> 00:25:25.558
Joe: It was like, it’s tough because when you finally kind of like crack into it, you’re like, oh crap, okay, we got there, but now we have to like go do other stuff.

00:25:25.558 –> 00:25:29.018
Joe: And then so it can be tough to kind of crack back into it.

00:25:29.018 –> 00:25:33.938
Joe: And it proved to be very tough to crack back into it, to like finish the, all the vocals and stuff.

00:25:33.938 –> 00:25:36.918
Joe: It was again, I think like the 11th hour of the last thing again.

00:25:36.918 –> 00:25:40.418
Adam: It was like, it was on a checklist for our last session.

00:25:40.538 –> 00:25:43.498
Adam: We had like, it was like, you know, deadlines coming now.

00:25:43.838 –> 00:25:44.998
Adam: We gotta get this thing mixed.

00:25:44.998 –> 00:25:46.118
Joe: Exactly.

00:25:46.118 –> 00:25:49.898
Joe: And then it becomes this thing where you’re like, kind of, I’ll speak for myself.

00:25:49.898 –> 00:25:53.638
Joe: I’m like, always after the new stuff, trying to like, what’s the new stuff?

00:25:53.638 –> 00:25:58.098
Joe: Let’s like spark something up because then it’ll go, and you’ll finish it really quick.

00:25:58.098 –> 00:26:00.538
Joe: Like Gap Tooth, we did that like easy.

00:26:00.538 –> 00:26:02.878
Joe: Like that was so fun and so natural.

00:26:02.878 –> 00:26:07.978
Joe: And then you gotta like pull the teeth of this song a little bit to try to like get it to where it needs to be.

00:26:07.978 –> 00:26:13.498
Joe: Both kind of, you know, have their own sense of victory, I think, when you do them.

00:26:13.498 –> 00:26:15.698
Joe: But it’s hard work, I guess.

00:26:15.698 –> 00:26:16.338
Adam: Yeah.

00:26:16.338 –> 00:26:17.378
Joe: It’s hard work.

00:26:17.378 –> 00:26:17.998
Adam: Worth it.

00:26:17.998 –> 00:26:19.498
Joe: Worth it, for sure.

00:26:19.498 –> 00:26:23.518
Joe: So then we found that that was in 2024?

00:26:23.518 –> 00:26:24.858
Adam: Yeah, August 2024.

00:26:24.858 –> 00:26:26.518
Joe: So a year later?

00:26:26.518 –> 00:26:29.218
Adam: Yeah, so what was the original date on that?

00:26:29.218 –> 00:26:30.418
Adam: I know that was it.

00:26:30.418 –> 00:26:32.358
Adam: But not every song is like that, you know.

00:26:32.378 –> 00:26:32.818
Joe: It’s true.

00:26:32.818 –> 00:26:37.958
Adam: Which is why I think I wanted to talk about this one because it was such a sprawling journey.

00:26:37.958 –> 00:26:38.658
Adam: The song.

00:26:38.658 –> 00:26:39.418
Joe: Yeah.

00:26:39.418 –> 00:26:47.698
Joe: Another thing I think that we can speak to on this song, which is kind of a thing that informed the song sonically as well, is this lovely piece of outboard gear.

00:26:47.698 –> 00:26:48.438
Adam: I know.

00:26:48.438 –> 00:26:48.958
Adam: Yeah.

00:26:48.958 –> 00:26:51.298
Joe: I don’t know if you could probably speak to it.

00:26:51.298 –> 00:26:52.198
Joe: Planet Phatt.

00:26:52.198 –> 00:26:53.098
Adam: Planet Phatt.

00:26:53.098 –> 00:26:57.378
Adam: I think it’s like a 1998 or something.

00:26:57.378 –> 00:26:58.138
Joe: It’s like Chuck E.

00:26:58.138 –> 00:26:59.258
Joe: Cheese core.

00:26:59.738 –> 00:27:02.178
Adam: It’s like a Rompler EMU or EMU.

00:27:02.178 –> 00:27:03.978
Adam: I’m not sure how you pronounce the brand.

00:27:03.978 –> 00:27:07.278
Adam: But yeah, it’s just like hot pink kind of rack gear.

00:27:07.278 –> 00:27:09.258
Joe: We’ve been making fun of this thing the whole time.

00:27:09.258 –> 00:27:11.098
Adam: We’ve been in Studio B at Electric Lady.

00:27:11.158 –> 00:27:14.218
Joe: It’s like the top of this outboard gear thing.

00:27:14.218 –> 00:27:16.258
Adam: It’s like the cheesiest piece of gear.

00:27:16.258 –> 00:27:18.818
Joe: P-H-A-T-T, Planet Phatt.

00:27:18.818 –> 00:27:19.478
Adam: Right.

00:27:19.478 –> 00:27:21.558
Joe: And we’re like, we gotta get Planet Phatt on the record.

00:27:21.558 –> 00:27:23.538
Joe: We gotta get Planet Phatt as kind of a joke.

00:27:23.538 –> 00:27:25.918
Adam: So finally they patch it in one day.

00:27:25.918 –> 00:27:30.318
Adam: John and Austin patch it in and we’re just like kind of combing through all the presets on it.

00:27:30.318 –> 00:27:31.918
Adam: And it ended up being all over this.

00:27:31.918 –> 00:27:32.798
Joe: It’s all over the song.

00:27:32.798 –> 00:27:35.438
Adam: It’s like, whoa, that sound is crazy.

00:27:35.438 –> 00:27:36.818
Adam: Let’s put that in there.

00:27:36.818 –> 00:27:37.978
Adam: But yeah, let me solo some of these.

00:27:37.978 –> 00:27:39.178
Joe: Hit me with all the Planet Phatt.

00:27:39.218 –> 00:27:45.538
Adam: Yeah, here’s some weird eagle sound that’s been reversed.

00:27:45.538 –> 00:27:47.718
Adam: I think this is jet.

00:27:47.718 –> 00:27:48.178
Joe: Great.

00:27:48.178 –> 00:27:49.938
Adam: Jet noises.

00:27:49.938 –> 00:27:51.238
Adam: Let’s see.

00:27:51.238 –> 00:27:53.038
Adam: Oh, actually the lick at the…

00:27:53.038 –> 00:27:53.898
Adam: Oh, that’s a door lock.

00:27:53.898 –> 00:27:54.698
Adam: Never mind.

00:27:54.698 –> 00:27:56.358
Adam: The thing at the very top of the track…

00:27:56.358 –> 00:28:01.318
Adam: Yeah, the guitar is a sample from the Planet Phatt.

00:28:01.318 –> 00:28:01.938
Adam: That’s just like a…

00:28:01.938 –> 00:28:02.878
Joe: Just a sample in this thing.

00:28:02.878 –> 00:28:03.738
John Kennedy: Right.

00:28:03.738 –> 00:28:06.478
John Kennedy: So that’s not you strumming away.

00:28:06.538 –> 00:28:08.798
Joe: No, we were like in rehearsals.

00:28:08.798 –> 00:28:13.118
Joe: Now that we’re playing the song, it’s like, okay, how can we kind of emulate this little thing?

00:28:13.118 –> 00:28:15.998
Joe: Cause I feel like it does have a nice jangle to it.

00:28:15.998 –> 00:28:20.358
John Kennedy: But at this point, these are just extras on top of the song.

00:28:20.358 –> 00:28:23.958
John Kennedy: So you’ve kind of got the song the way you want it.

00:28:23.958 –> 00:28:29.538
John Kennedy: But this is just to fill out the sound and add some extra little funny entertaining…

00:28:29.538 –> 00:28:38.638
Joe: But the ear candy stuff, I feel like paired with the guitar production was the thing that kind of like rooted it sonically into this place.

00:28:38.638 –> 00:28:50.158
Joe: And that’s always, I think, like for me, like working on the lyrics or working on the melody, especially just working on the whole vocals, it’s always helpful to have something that’s pretty fleshed out.

00:28:50.158 –> 00:28:57.318
Joe: And so these sort of things, albeit pretty small, do help with the kind of like the mood of the thing.

00:28:57.318 –> 00:29:03.598
Joe: Cause you kind of maybe like have a better understanding of like the delivery of how you might sing it or of what the lyrics would be.

00:29:03.598 –> 00:29:09.438
Joe: So I think the last hurdle to really jump through for this song was just like getting all the lyrics done.

00:29:09.438 –> 00:29:11.678
John Kennedy: What else should we hear to maybe round up the song?

00:29:11.678 –> 00:29:17.638
John Kennedy: Now maybe you could build up and explain what everything is as you play it.

00:29:17.638 –> 00:29:19.158
Adam: Well, let me just solo the drums.

00:29:19.158 –> 00:29:22.718
Adam: This is one of my favorite drum sounds on the album.

00:29:22.718 –> 00:29:24.558
Joe: This is smacking on.

00:29:24.558 –> 00:29:27.678
Joe: He is a very hard hitting drummer.

00:29:30.118 –> 00:29:36.278
Adam: I think this was in Studio B and something was in the air when John recorded these.

00:29:36.278 –> 00:29:42.278
Adam: Because there is basically no processing on these outside of what John had on the board.

00:29:42.278 –> 00:29:44.778
Adam: It was recorded through the desk in B.

00:29:44.778 –> 00:29:46.078
John Kennedy: Was it B?

00:29:46.078 –> 00:29:47.858
Adam: Or maybe it was D.

00:29:48.978 –> 00:29:50.658
Joe: I think it was maybe B, honestly.

00:29:50.658 –> 00:29:53.418
Adam: I think it had to be B because it has the lexicon printed on it.

00:29:54.138 –> 00:29:56.078
John Kennedy: And how are you recording those drums, Adam?

00:29:56.078 –> 00:29:59.518
John Kennedy: I mean, are you miking up every single aspect of them?

00:29:59.518 –> 00:30:03.398
Adam: John, all credit to John for the miking.

00:30:03.398 –> 00:30:04.758
Adam: There’s quite a few.

00:30:04.758 –> 00:30:05.958
Adam: There’s a kick in and out.

00:30:05.958 –> 00:30:14.098
Adam: He uses, I think it’s an R44 in the front of kick, like the ribbon mic, RCA.

00:30:14.098 –> 00:30:19.278
Joe: And also to John’s credit, we’re like, all right, let’s do drums and like ready to do it.

00:30:19.278 –> 00:30:23.298
Joe: And he’s like scrambling, like, you know, he works so quickly, too.

00:30:23.298 –> 00:30:23.998
Adam: He does.

00:30:23.998 –> 00:30:26.198
Adam: And his sounds are great.

00:30:26.198 –> 00:30:30.778
Adam: I think a big part of the drum sound on this, for the vibe, is the hall thing.

00:30:30.778 –> 00:30:34.498
Adam: Not the hall thing, this lexicon printed.

00:30:34.498 –> 00:30:42.518
Adam: There was a 224 lexicon hardware reverb in the Studio B that we used to turn on vocals.

00:30:42.518 –> 00:30:45.498
Adam: It sounds weird on its own.

00:30:45.498 –> 00:30:48.938
Joe: But again, also I feel like puts it in the right time period.

00:30:49.578 –> 00:30:51.138
Adam: Yeah, exactly.

00:30:51.138 –> 00:30:53.418
John Kennedy: Were you going for a particular then?

00:30:53.418 –> 00:30:57.238
Joe: I guess kind of like mid 80s or something.

00:30:57.238 –> 00:30:58.018
Joe: I don’t know, late 80s.

00:30:58.018 –> 00:30:59.378
Adam: Kind of police-y sort of.

00:31:00.098 –> 00:31:05.038
Joe: I feel like his drums do sound like Stuart Copeland kind of.

00:31:05.038 –> 00:31:07.098
Adam: Here’s without that reverb printed.

00:31:07.098 –> 00:31:09.558
Joe: Snappy.

00:31:09.558 –> 00:31:11.978
Joe: That’s the whole vibe is that thing.

00:31:13.398 –> 00:31:15.718
Joe: Get those guitars in here, let’s hear those things.

00:31:15.898 –> 00:31:17.398
Joe: I’m kind of keen to hear them on their own.

00:31:18.178 –> 00:31:18.878
Adam: Just on their own?

00:31:18.878 –> 00:31:20.038
Adam: Yeah.

00:31:20.038 –> 00:31:21.538
Joe: Or add them to the drums, I guess.

00:31:21.538 –> 00:31:22.718
Adam: I feel a little bit on the spot.

00:31:22.878 –> 00:31:25.058
Adam: I learned Pro Tools during the making of this album.

00:31:25.058 –> 00:31:26.258
Adam: I usually use Ableton.

00:31:26.258 –> 00:31:27.938
Adam: Sorry to anyone watching that.

00:31:27.938 –> 00:31:29.558
Adam: Adam is like a genius.

00:31:29.558 –> 00:31:31.958
Joe: No, Adam is literally a genius.

00:31:36.518 –> 00:31:39.518
Adam: These were DI, I think, all the guitars.

00:31:39.518 –> 00:31:41.138
Joe: Yeah, I do remember that.

00:31:41.138 –> 00:31:45.338
Joe: After going for sort of like that big room sound, we kind of were like, let’s just tighten this whole thing up.

00:31:45.718 –> 00:31:49.938
Adam: Yeah, I think a big part of the sound is this chorus and echo.

00:31:51.038 –> 00:31:53.978
Adam: So that’s just a drier sound with EQ and compression.

00:31:57.098 –> 00:31:58.658
Joe: No big tricks here, people.

00:31:58.658 –> 00:32:00.378
Joe: It’s the simple stuff.

00:32:00.378 –> 00:32:01.918
Adam: Little echo boy.

00:32:04.158 –> 00:32:05.518
Adam: Little brigade for us.

00:32:11.871 –> 00:32:13.211
Adam: I love how chooey that sounds.

00:32:13.211 –> 00:32:13.951
Adam: Yeah.

00:32:13.951 –> 00:32:17.771
Adam: Yeah, Joe played all the guitars and bass on this one.

00:32:17.771 –> 00:32:18.731
Adam: Let’s say that.

00:32:18.731 –> 00:32:19.831
Joe: I played the bass on this one?

00:32:19.831 –> 00:32:19.971
Adam: Yeah.

00:32:29.445 –> 00:32:30.685
Adam: Let’s put some drums in.

00:32:30.685 –> 00:32:35.665
Joe: Yeah.

00:32:35.665 –> 00:32:42.465
Joe: I’m pretty sure we ended up chopping, so the drum performance didn’t exist for this new section, so we kind of ended up…

00:32:42.465 –> 00:32:43.025
Adam: We just took…

00:32:43.025 –> 00:32:48.645
Adam: We loved the sound of this original drum take so much, we were like, well, we have to use these sounds.

00:32:48.645 –> 00:32:52.385
Adam: So we just kind of like Frankenstein, Wesson’s Plan, into our…

00:32:52.385 –> 00:32:53.025
Joe: The pre and the…

00:32:53.025 –> 00:32:54.125
Adam: Yeah.

00:32:54.125 –> 00:32:55.105
Adam: But it worked out, you know?

00:32:55.105 –> 00:32:55.285
Joe: Yeah.

00:32:58.165 –> 00:33:01.305
Adam: Let’s add some keyboards in here.

00:33:04.745 –> 00:33:05.645
Joe: It’s a little Juno.

00:33:16.982 –> 00:33:21.462
Joe: Another thing that we did a lot on this record is, there’s a lot of E-Bow on this thing.

00:33:21.462 –> 00:33:34.382
Joe: Live, there’s kind of like a nice roomy E-Bow to tie these, something that we love to do is to have consistent sounds throughout the record to tie things in, and that was evocative of the era we were trying to emulate.

00:33:35.202 –> 00:33:39.282
Joe: Also, it’s such a, it’s like a violin-y sort of sound.

00:33:39.322 –> 00:33:41.282
Joe: I think it’s, yeah, kind of right there.

00:33:41.282 –> 00:33:44.462
Adam: Synth-y guitar sound, you know, the E-Bow.

00:33:44.462 –> 00:33:47.222
Joe: I think it’s like in this zone, I love that thing.

00:33:53.347 –> 00:33:54.707
Joe: Let’s play a little bit of this little thing.

00:33:54.707 –> 00:33:55.567
Joe: You can really hear the room.

00:34:03.091 –> 00:34:06.831
Joe: Yeah, that nice little, yeah, I love, love that sound.

00:34:06.831 –> 00:34:10.711
Joe: And also like an instrument that I feel like people, I don’t know, somehow I’m not hearing about it.

00:34:10.711 –> 00:34:15.111
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s kind of fallen out of favor a bit, or people don’t refer to it as much as they once did.

00:34:15.111 –> 00:34:16.211
Joe: Definitely, yeah.

00:34:16.211 –> 00:34:16.671
John Kennedy: Interesting.

00:34:16.831 –> 00:34:21.531
John Kennedy: And the use of the synths, are you using real synths then, or are you using plugins?

00:34:21.531 –> 00:34:23.231
Adam: Some of them are plugins, some of them are real.

00:34:23.231 –> 00:34:27.911
Adam: So the main pad sound in this, this is saying John has all these synths.

00:34:27.911 –> 00:34:30.971
Adam: He just keeps acquiring, this is an Alpha Juno that he had just got.

00:34:30.971 –> 00:34:31.891
Joe: He’s got a problem, John.

00:34:32.011 –> 00:34:34.411
Joe: John, you’ve got a real big problem.

00:34:34.411 –> 00:34:35.791
Adam: We love it though.

00:34:36.891 –> 00:34:43.931
Adam: This is, the Alpha Juno was basically like a 106 without any Dino sliders or knobs.

00:34:43.931 –> 00:34:47.971
Adam: It was like a post DX7, like, oh, we need something slick and presets.

00:34:47.991 –> 00:34:48.631
Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:48.631 –> 00:34:52.251
Adam: But it has some of the famous, I think the Hoover bass sound.

00:34:52.251 –> 00:34:53.711
Adam: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:53.711 –> 00:34:59.171
Adam: But yeah, I just had, I think this patch was called Rich Strings and I just love the way it sounded.

00:34:59.171 –> 00:34:59.751
Joe: And this is you.

00:35:00.891 –> 00:35:01.931
Adam: Yeah.

00:35:01.931 –> 00:35:06.771
Adam: Just a little bit of EQ on there to make it fit in the track.

00:35:06.771 –> 00:35:10.471
John Kennedy: And was that part of this reaction to the last record?

00:35:10.471 –> 00:35:14.791
John Kennedy: So if it was all in the box on the side, this time, no, we’re going to a proper studio.

00:35:14.791 –> 00:35:15.191
John Kennedy: Oh, yeah.

00:35:15.191 –> 00:35:17.311
John Kennedy: And it’s going to have these banks and things.

00:35:17.311 –> 00:35:21.311
John Kennedy: And we’re going to get John and he’s got a problem with buying equipment.

00:35:21.311 –> 00:35:22.731
John Kennedy: So he’s going to bring all his equipment.

00:35:22.931 –> 00:35:24.431
Joe: We’re encouraging his problem.

00:35:24.431 –> 00:35:25.391
Joe: Oh, yeah.

00:35:25.391 –> 00:35:25.951
Joe: No, for sure.

00:35:25.951 –> 00:35:26.611
Joe: I think so.

00:35:26.611 –> 00:35:35.251
Adam: I think there was a little bit of like, proving to ourselves that we could play everything, and doing it when we could.

00:35:35.251 –> 00:35:43.731
Adam: It was like a real performance captured rather than decide had so much like, oh, wouldn’t it be great if this crazy ARP thing happened?

00:35:43.731 –> 00:35:44.391
Joe: A lot of MIDI.

00:35:44.391 –> 00:35:45.311
Adam: A lot of MIDI.

00:35:45.311 –> 00:35:45.791
Joe: Yeah.

00:35:45.791 –> 00:35:51.991
Joe: And so to try to like, I feel like there’s countless moments on this record where it was like, I was thinking it’s over.

00:35:51.991 –> 00:35:55.051
Joe: I mean, it’s not on the record, but like a little string run that you did.

00:35:55.111 –> 00:35:58.751
Joe: There’s a one-off thing that you couldn’t do if you wanted to now.

00:35:58.751 –> 00:36:00.291
Adam: You can get those happy accidents.

00:36:00.291 –> 00:36:09.111
Joe: Those great little moments that, you know, you can always, you can’t always get that first take.

00:36:09.291 –> 00:36:10.651
Joe: You can’t always repeat that first take.

00:36:10.651 –> 00:36:12.691
Joe: So, yeah, try to capture it, you know?

00:36:12.691 –> 00:36:13.051
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:36:13.051 –> 00:36:18.351
John Kennedy: And you mentioned about trying to create a kind of sonic palette for an album.

00:36:18.351 –> 00:36:22.431
John Kennedy: And we had a question from Oitu via Patreon, which kind of touches on that.

00:36:22.731 –> 00:36:25.951
John Kennedy: You know, how do you achieve that sonic cohesion?

00:36:25.951 –> 00:36:28.931
John Kennedy: So, you know, the album’s really varied, your work is really varied.

00:36:28.931 –> 00:36:34.151
John Kennedy: Sometimes it leans in more electronic, sometimes it’s more, you know, rock and roll, more guitar-y.

00:36:34.151 –> 00:36:35.871
John Kennedy: But it is very cohesive.

00:36:36.071 –> 00:36:38.791
John Kennedy: And how do you make that happen?

00:36:38.791 –> 00:36:47.431
Joe: Well, I think it’s really like the, you know, having sort of thematic instruments that pop out throughout the whole thing, I think is really important.

00:36:48.911 –> 00:36:56.751
Joe: There was, like on Decide, there was this patch on Arturia called the East Piano, which, does it make an appearance on this track?

00:36:56.751 –> 00:36:59.331
Adam: It does, yeah, it’s this sound here.

00:37:01.151 –> 00:37:02.551
Joe: This thing was all over the last one.

00:37:02.551 –> 00:37:31.731
Joe: So, you know, the reuse of that, but then I also think the process is the thing that maybe, like the way that we recorded all these songs ended up being the thing that kind of glued them all together, because they do all sound a lot different, but the way that we went about making them generally was, I think, the same, in this live kind of studio or environment, pseudo live, because we’re not necessarily playing it live all as a band, but we are building this thing together live.

00:37:31.731 –> 00:37:49.731
Adam: It was when we were making Decide, we kind of had the unlock of, across an album where, sort of late stage in the album process, we were swapping, taking a step back and going, oh, we have two synth pad sounds that are very similar, but they’re different, but why don’t we use the same?

00:37:49.731 –> 00:37:50.231
Adam: Yeah.

00:37:50.231 –> 00:37:52.711
Adam: Let’s go back and swap that in, get a new performance.

00:37:52.711 –> 00:37:54.431
Adam: Let’s use the Prophet on both those songs.

00:37:54.731 –> 00:37:55.491
Adam: Yeah.

00:37:55.491 –> 00:37:57.991
Adam: That sort of helps, I feel like, tie things together.

00:37:57.991 –> 00:38:12.471
Adam: Or finding reverb characters, like, I feel like reverb especially is such a part of the costume, to use your expression of how the vibe of something, you know, using similar reverbs across different songs.

00:38:12.471 –> 00:38:18.251
Joe: Also, I feel like on Decide, our good friend Ted Matthews, who also plays in the band, did the drums.

00:38:18.251 –> 00:38:23.291
Joe: And I feel like the drums in any mix is a huge part of the performance and the character.

00:38:23.291 –> 00:38:25.791
Joe: It informs so much of it.

00:38:25.791 –> 00:38:30.171
Joe: So he did Decide and our good friend West Alito did the drums on this record.

00:38:30.171 –> 00:38:33.291
Joe: And they’re roommates, which is great, by the way.

00:38:33.291 –> 00:38:37.131
Joe: And so that also, I feel like, kind of adds to the, I don’t know.

00:38:37.211 –> 00:38:39.771
Adam: Yeah, it’s a pretty tight camp.

00:38:39.771 –> 00:38:40.191
Adam: Yeah.

00:38:40.191 –> 00:38:48.331
Adam: You know, and you play a majority of the sounds on everything on this album, which helps with the cohesion, you know, that’s.

00:38:48.331 –> 00:38:53.671
Joe: It’s like E-Bow, the Nashville strung guitar, I feel like is a theme.

00:38:53.671 –> 00:38:54.711
Adam: 12 string.

00:38:54.731 –> 00:38:55.971
Joe: 12 string.

00:38:55.971 –> 00:38:57.251
Adam: Precision bass on everything.

00:38:57.291 –> 00:39:00.491
Joe: Precision bass on everything, except maybe Fly, the one that you played.

00:39:00.491 –> 00:39:01.051
Adam: Oh yeah.

00:39:01.051 –> 00:39:08.011
Joe: So yeah, I guess like just trying to like draw from the same sort of universe, but not limit yourself though, also.

00:39:08.111 –> 00:39:11.911
Joe: You want to have those days where you’re like, you know what, let’s break out the oboe.

00:39:11.911 –> 00:39:13.671
Joe: But there’s no oboe on the record.

00:39:13.671 –> 00:39:16.371
Joe: Oh, honestly, another thing on this record is the Mellotron.

00:39:16.371 –> 00:39:17.051
Joe: That thing is everywhere.

00:39:17.051 –> 00:39:18.511
Adam: Oh yeah, a lot of Mellotron.

00:39:18.511 –> 00:39:19.531
Joe: I played a huge part.

00:39:19.531 –> 00:39:20.491
Joe: It’s just so good.

00:39:20.491 –> 00:39:22.151
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, how can you not?

00:39:22.151 –> 00:39:23.331
Adam: Yeah, gotta use it.

00:39:23.331 –> 00:39:28.271
Joe: One thing that I would love to play is Adam’s amazing synth bass part at the end.

00:39:28.271 –> 00:39:32.251
Joe: This was something that happened at the end when we were in Houston, actually.

00:39:32.411 –> 00:39:45.931
Joe: We finished Adam lives and works out of a studio in his house in Houston and we went down there and kind of put a bunch of finishing touches on stuff, just like kind of more in the box, but also some live stuff.

00:39:45.931 –> 00:39:49.171
Joe: But this little synth bass line is just amazing.

00:39:49.171 –> 00:39:52.631
Adam: You were outside the room, I think on a call and I was just messing around.

00:39:53.511 –> 00:39:58.631
Adam: We had gotten some feedback from a friend that was like, oh, what if you guys really go for it on this last course?

00:39:58.631 –> 00:40:00.411
Adam: And I don’t know, I was throwing paint at it.

00:40:01.111 –> 00:40:02.511
Adam: I was just like, what happens?

00:40:10.051 –> 00:40:13.371
Adam: Blown out, Prophet 6.

00:40:13.371 –> 00:40:15.411
Adam: Here’s in context, it makes more sense.

00:40:20.391 –> 00:40:21.011
Adam: Here’s without it.

00:40:24.411 –> 00:40:32.391
Joe: Adam is the best at finding a rhythmic slash melodic slot for something to go into.

00:40:32.391 –> 00:40:39.551
Joe: Like a thing like that could so easily take up the entire mix, but it just kind of like finds its little way into this thing.

00:40:39.551 –> 00:40:40.531
Joe: So hats off to you for that.

00:40:40.591 –> 00:40:40.891
Adam: Thanks.

00:40:40.891 –> 00:40:41.711
Joe: That’s good.

00:40:41.751 –> 00:40:42.251
John Kennedy: Thanks.

00:40:42.371 –> 00:40:45.391
Joe: We’ve got a pretty complimentary skill set, I think.

00:40:45.391 –> 00:40:50.291
Joe: I think like your history and my history with music are pretty different.

00:40:50.291 –> 00:40:51.751
Adam: Coming at it from two different angles.

00:40:51.751 –> 00:40:55.271
Joe: And so we’re able to like fit the slots pretty well.

00:40:55.271 –> 00:40:59.391
John Kennedy: And one final question with regard to Delete Ya, how did you know when it was finished?

00:40:59.391 –> 00:41:02.011
John Kennedy: Because this was a song that you’d been working on.

00:41:02.011 –> 00:41:03.131
Joe: It’s not finished actually.

00:41:03.631 –> 00:41:05.771
Joe: It’s never finished, that’s the thing.

00:41:05.771 –> 00:41:06.371
Joe: I don’t know.

00:41:06.411 –> 00:41:11.071
Joe: But over two years, off and on, eventually there’s a vinyl deadline.

00:41:11.071 –> 00:41:13.211
Adam: A friend of mine is an engineer in Houston.

00:41:13.211 –> 00:41:15.931
Adam: Steve Christensen told me something that I hung on to.

00:41:15.931 –> 00:41:18.271
Adam: It was like, you’re never done.

00:41:18.271 –> 00:41:21.591
Adam: You just either run out of time or you run out of money.

00:41:21.591 –> 00:41:24.291
Adam: So we definitely ran out of time on this one.

00:41:24.291 –> 00:41:25.691
Adam: But I’m happy with how it turned out.

00:41:25.691 –> 00:41:27.231
Joe: I am happy with how it turned out.

00:41:27.231 –> 00:41:30.391
Joe: And it is what it is also.

00:41:30.391 –> 00:41:31.171
Adam: It’s time to move on.

00:41:31.171 –> 00:41:32.631
John Kennedy: It’s time to move on.

00:41:32.631 –> 00:41:40.071
Joe: I think this song for us, I think was really just like, I’m proud of the song, but more than anything, I’m really happy for the experience of making this song.

00:41:40.071 –> 00:41:45.871
Joe: Because I feel like it was an emboldening experience about what we can do if we just sort of also keep pushing.

00:41:45.911 –> 00:41:47.331
Joe: Keep pushing.

00:41:47.331 –> 00:41:47.811
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:41:47.811 –> 00:41:53.071
John Kennedy: And to think that it just started with buying a new acoustic guitar, taking it with you wherever you went.

00:41:53.071 –> 00:41:54.331
Joe: Yeah.

00:41:54.331 –> 00:41:58.511
Joe: Good lesson there too is just like, if you don’t have something around, you’re not going to do anything.

00:41:58.511 –> 00:42:02.871
Joe: So it’s better to lug something around, even though maybe you won’t ever use it.

00:42:02.871 –> 00:42:06.411
John Kennedy: Yeah, because it can be a real pain if you’re traveling around.

00:42:06.411 –> 00:42:08.531
Joe: It can be a major pain, for sure.

00:42:08.531 –> 00:42:11.211
Joe: Taking a train to bust this and that.

00:42:11.211 –> 00:42:21.931
Joe: I’ve definitely, honestly since starting this project, made a big change in my life of always trying to like an influx of new, Adam can attest, I’ve bought a Whistle, I’ve bought a Suzuki, I’ve bought all this stuff in Ireland.

00:42:21.931 –> 00:42:23.971
Adam: John’s problem is becoming your problem too.

00:42:23.971 –> 00:42:27.331
Joe: Yeah, I’ve got like an acoustic problem.

00:42:27.331 –> 00:42:33.231
Joe: Anyways, it’s good to have and it’s a good, if you’re going to do music, you might as well have it around.

00:42:33.471 –> 00:42:34.111
John Kennedy: Yeah, totally.

00:42:34.111 –> 00:42:35.551
John Kennedy: Right, we’re going to take a quick break.

00:42:35.551 –> 00:42:37.571
John Kennedy: I think the next song we’re going to look at is Charlie’s Garden.

00:42:37.571 –> 00:42:38.091
Joe: Cool.

00:42:38.091 –> 00:42:41.171
Joe: Fantastic.

00:42:41.171 –> 00:42:48.171
John Kennedy: For musicians and songwriters who rely on voice notes, like so many of our guests do, Tape It, the iPhone recording app is made for you.

00:42:48.171 –> 00:42:51.091
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00:42:51.091 –> 00:42:54.071
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00:42:54.071 –> 00:43:03.971
John Kennedy: Whether that’s building up instruments, trying out top lines or adding as many harmonies as you like, layering is a brilliant way to flesh out ideas while staying in the creative flow.

00:43:03.971 –> 00:43:07.791
John Kennedy: In case you haven’t tried Tape It already, layering is just one of many features.

00:43:07.791 –> 00:43:17.771
John Kennedy: With stereo recording, automatic instrument detection, markers, photo notes and shared mixtapes, everything is built to support how musicians actually write and collaborate.

00:43:17.771 –> 00:43:25.091
John Kennedy: So to find out more and try layering for yourself, head to tape.it forward slash tape notes and download Tape It now.

00:43:25.091 –> 00:43:29.271
John Kennedy: And for even more, use the code Tape Notes for 20% off Tape It Pro.

00:43:30.291 –> 00:43:33.871
John Kennedy: The next song we are going to look at from The Crux is Charlie’s Garden.

00:43:33.871 –> 00:43:36.651
John Kennedy: So Adam, if you are able to play us a Blast of the Master, that would be fantastic.

00:44:49.980 –> 00:44:55.500
John Kennedy: It is Charlie’s Garden by Joe from The Crux, and now we’re going to find out how that started.

00:44:55.500 –> 00:44:58.360
John Kennedy: So it’s so rich, there’s so much going on.

00:44:58.360 –> 00:45:02.000
John Kennedy: It’s like there’s an orchestra, but it’s just you, Joe, kind of.

00:45:02.000 –> 00:45:05.120
Joe: Well, secret weapon over here.

00:45:05.120 –> 00:45:06.220
John Kennedy: So do we have a demo?

00:45:06.220 –> 00:45:07.140
John Kennedy: Is this something that was demoed?

00:45:07.140 –> 00:45:08.380
Joe: We do have a demo.

00:45:08.380 –> 00:45:09.600
Adam: Yeah, let’s see what this…

00:45:17.060 –> 00:45:18.080
John Kennedy: The scat version, fill in.

00:45:26.800 –> 00:45:30.900
Adam: It’s crazy, though, how much of your melody was already formed.

00:45:30.900 –> 00:45:33.760
Joe: But the next part, I think, was pretty not……different.

00:45:33.760 –> 00:45:35.020
Joe: I think it was…

00:45:37.480 –> 00:45:39.540
Joe: I also can’t play piano, really.

00:45:39.540 –> 00:45:40.080
Adam: That’s a lie.

00:45:48.360 –> 00:45:49.200
Joe: That was changed by…

00:45:49.200 –> 00:45:49.880
Adam: The lyric, though, is…

00:45:51.460 –> 00:45:53.420
Adam: That’s right.

00:45:59.400 –> 00:46:03.460
Adam: This is like, you’re actually coming up with it in the moment.

00:46:03.460 –> 00:46:05.940
Joe: Yeah, this is so…

00:46:06.000 –> 00:46:06.500
Joe: Literally, yeah.

00:46:06.560 –> 00:46:07.060
Joe: Yeah, I mean, yeah.

00:46:07.542 –> 00:46:09.802
Adam: It’s crazy that you still have this stuff.

00:46:09.802 –> 00:46:13.562
Adam: I feel like you had a big effort this time around on this third album.

00:46:13.722 –> 00:46:16.622
Adam: You’ve saved so many of these early ideas.

00:46:16.622 –> 00:46:18.002
Joe: Definitely.

00:46:18.002 –> 00:46:21.142
Joe: So this was basically coming up with the idea.

00:46:21.142 –> 00:46:22.222
John Kennedy: Is this your piano?

00:46:22.402 –> 00:46:22.902
John Kennedy: Where are you?

00:46:22.902 –> 00:46:25.502
Joe: This is Charlie Heaton, my pal.

00:46:25.502 –> 00:46:26.702
Joe: He was my neighbor in Atlanta.

00:46:27.782 –> 00:46:37.182
Joe: The song is about living in Atlanta and working down there and being on call for coming in to work, which is working on the show, Stranger Things.

00:46:39.282 –> 00:46:40.742
Joe: It’s actually Natalia’s piano.

00:46:40.742 –> 00:46:42.622
Joe: They are dating and they live together.

00:46:42.622 –> 00:46:44.702
Joe: It’s this fun, honky tonk.

00:46:44.702 –> 00:46:47.422
Joe: You can hear it’s pretty out of tune.

00:46:47.422 –> 00:46:48.722
Joe: But it’s a great piano.

00:46:48.722 –> 00:46:50.182
Joe: Wrote a couple of songs on it.

00:46:51.082 –> 00:46:54.522
Joe: I didn’t want to go over there while they were there and totally bother them all the time.

00:46:54.602 –> 00:46:58.322
Joe: But if they were leaving, I would come by and say, Oh, you’re heading out?

00:46:59.362 –> 00:47:01.182
Joe: Do you mind if I just play a little bit?

00:47:01.182 –> 00:47:02.142
Joe: Okay, yeah, I’ll just play.

00:47:02.142 –> 00:47:03.602
Joe: I’ll lock the door, I’ll lock the door.

00:47:03.602 –> 00:47:07.102
Joe: And so they went on a hike with their dog Penny.

00:47:07.102 –> 00:47:08.202
Joe: I mentioned the song.

00:47:08.202 –> 00:47:11.582
Joe: And yeah, I just sat down and started messing around.

00:47:11.582 –> 00:47:14.582
Joe: That popped out and then recorded and sent it to Adam.

00:47:14.582 –> 00:47:15.002
John Kennedy: Right.

00:47:15.002 –> 00:47:15.622
John Kennedy: That’s brilliant.

00:47:15.622 –> 00:47:21.922
John Kennedy: I love this idea that you’re waiting for them to pop out and then you get to have your own time with the piano.

00:47:21.922 –> 00:47:22.702
John Kennedy: Yeah, exactly.

00:47:22.842 –> 00:47:25.262
John Kennedy: So put your phone on, record what you’re doing.

00:47:25.262 –> 00:47:27.982
John Kennedy: You’re mucking about, having a bit of fun.

00:47:27.982 –> 00:47:30.182
John Kennedy: And then you send it to Adam.

00:47:30.662 –> 00:47:32.702
John Kennedy: And then what happens next?

00:47:32.702 –> 00:47:36.222
Joe: Well, store it until we get together, I think.

00:47:36.602 –> 00:47:43.242
Adam: And we knew we had, I don’t remember when we made the plans, but we had plans suddenly to go to LA and work.

00:47:43.242 –> 00:47:49.902
Joe: This is the only one that’s not actually done at Electric Lady but done in LA at Jack Antonoff’s little studio that he has out there.

00:47:49.902 –> 00:47:52.462
Adam: Yeah, we had like four or five days there.

00:47:52.722 –> 00:47:56.482
Adam: And this was like the latest and greatest Joe demo.

00:47:56.482 –> 00:47:58.222
Adam: And we were like, oh, we gotta work on this one.

00:47:58.222 –> 00:47:59.982
Joe: Yeah, I mean, the influences are very clear.

00:47:59.982 –> 00:48:02.982
Joe: It’s Beatles, ELO, Supertramp.

00:48:02.982 –> 00:48:12.242
Joe: And kind of again, it’s like an ode to the sunshininess of the song, fits the themes of the song, like what I’m singing about, who I’m singing about.

00:48:12.242 –> 00:48:17.042
Adam: And I think this was May 20, 24 last year.

00:48:17.042 –> 00:48:20.502
Adam: So this is kind of, we’ve been learning as we go for about a year, we’re making this.

00:48:21.082 –> 00:48:25.122
Adam: And at this point in the record making process, we’re like, we got to move faster.

00:48:25.122 –> 00:48:29.482
Adam: So this was an attempt to try and get things out quickly, not overthink too much.

00:48:29.482 –> 00:48:29.782
Joe: Yeah.

00:48:29.782 –> 00:48:37.822
Joe: And try to finish, like if you start it, trying to finish it within, at least have the whole thing, the melodies done, the maybe the instrumental.

00:48:37.822 –> 00:48:38.802
Adam: The form is all there.

00:48:38.802 –> 00:48:40.982
Joe: The form is there, not have any questions.

00:48:40.982 –> 00:48:46.582
Joe: So you could just kind of like punch stuff in and not have to like kind of drag things out again, like the deletion method.

00:48:46.582 –> 00:48:48.942
Adam: Get the bones of the song completely ready.

00:48:49.322 –> 00:48:56.602
Adam: I feel like for us, it’s like we got to get it 80% there or there’s a really high chance we’re not going to finish that song in that first session.

00:48:56.602 –> 00:48:57.302
Joe: Yeah.

00:48:57.302 –> 00:48:58.162
Joe: I mean, what song number is this?

00:48:58.162 –> 00:49:03.562
John Kennedy: But there’s an awful lot in that demo that ends up being in the song, which is amazing.

00:49:03.562 –> 00:49:08.982
John Kennedy: Considering you hadn’t thought that idea through, you’re just playing it and thinking it out aloud.

00:49:08.982 –> 00:49:11.102
Joe: I mean, I’ll give myself a little less credit.

00:49:11.102 –> 00:49:17.982
Joe: Like, you know, five minutes before, I probably had like sort of, okay, and so this will be this, okay, and then this will be this, and then record it all.

00:49:18.102 –> 00:49:23.162
Joe: And so it’s not like, it was just like, oh my god, it’s coming out of my head.

00:49:23.162 –> 00:49:25.602
Joe: But you know, I like worked on it for 10 or 15 minutes.

00:49:25.602 –> 00:49:27.942
Adam: And then that was like, I can’t forget this.

00:49:27.942 –> 00:49:30.522
Joe: Yeah, can’t forget this, let’s record it.

00:49:30.522 –> 00:49:35.482
Joe: That’s gonna be in the thing of demos that I show the guys and they’ll be like, oh yeah, this sounds cool, let’s work on this.

00:49:35.482 –> 00:49:39.802
Adam: But yeah, I think we, trying to remember what we recorded first, because we built it up.

00:49:39.802 –> 00:49:41.642
Joe: I think we maybe had a-

00:49:41.642 –> 00:49:42.322
Adam: Did a scratch track.

00:49:42.322 –> 00:49:43.182
Joe: We did a scratch track.

00:49:43.182 –> 00:49:45.502
Adam: On piano, and then-

00:49:45.502 –> 00:49:46.642
Joe: Which you recorded.

00:49:46.682 –> 00:49:47.222
Adam: Yeah.

00:49:47.222 –> 00:49:48.702
Joe: You and Wes, I think.

00:49:48.702 –> 00:49:49.202
Adam: Yeah.

00:49:49.202 –> 00:49:50.842
Joe: Or no, maybe you did it, and-

00:49:50.842 –> 00:49:55.142
Adam: At his space, the piano and the drums are in this, he’s got a small live room.

00:49:55.142 –> 00:49:55.302
Joe: Yeah.

00:49:55.302 –> 00:49:57.442
Adam: So you can’t really track both together.

00:49:57.442 –> 00:50:02.242
Joe: It’s like the control rooms, maybe like this plus some, and then basically just like a little drum thing.

00:50:02.242 –> 00:50:06.862
Adam: It’s an inverse sort of of a normal setup, where like his control room is, I mean, it’s also-

00:50:06.862 –> 00:50:07.362
Joe: Is the live room.

00:50:07.362 –> 00:50:08.702
Adam: A recording space, yeah.

00:50:08.702 –> 00:50:12.762
Adam: The majority of the studio is like this control room that’s gorgeous with a huge gap.

00:50:12.762 –> 00:50:16.862
Joe: Kind of his signature thing, I feel like, is that he likes it to kind of be in this one room.

00:50:16.862 –> 00:50:23.322
Joe: So Wes kind of was isolated, thank God, because he just put him in a small room.

00:50:23.322 –> 00:50:25.582
Joe: No, he was in the small little drum room.

00:50:25.582 –> 00:50:34.262
Joe: And also I feel like actually the drum kit that, again, we show up the vagabonds that we are with no instruments, nothing, and just use the stuff that’s in the studio.

00:50:34.262 –> 00:50:35.342
Adam: Jack’s got a lot of great stuff.

00:50:35.342 –> 00:50:36.882
John Kennedy: He’s got a lot of great stuff.

00:50:36.882 –> 00:50:38.542
Joe: And this drum kit especially, I feel like.

00:50:38.542 –> 00:50:40.962
John Kennedy: Maybe we could build it all up.

00:50:41.002 –> 00:50:42.582
Joe: Yeah, let’s build it up.

00:50:43.742 –> 00:50:44.442
Adam: Wow.

00:50:44.442 –> 00:50:45.442
Joe: Kick and snare.

00:50:45.442 –> 00:50:47.362
Adam: Kick and snare.

00:50:47.362 –> 00:50:49.042
Joe: There it is.

00:50:49.042 –> 00:50:54.242
Adam: You can kind of tell it’s a smaller room than the Electric Lady Studios also.

00:50:54.242 –> 00:50:56.502
Adam: I actually ended up muting a few of the mics.

00:50:56.502 –> 00:50:58.902
Adam: Didn’t really need the mono overhead.

00:50:58.902 –> 00:51:01.262
Joe: What do we got on all this stuff, man?

00:51:01.262 –> 00:51:03.102
Joe: Is there any processing on this drum kit?

00:51:03.102 –> 00:51:05.502
Adam: There might be some processing.

00:51:05.502 –> 00:51:08.962
Adam: Oh yeah, we got EQ.

00:51:08.962 –> 00:51:10.642
Adam: What the heck is going on up there?

00:51:11.042 –> 00:51:16.422
Adam: And then, oh this is a couple of tricks.

00:51:16.422 –> 00:51:25.022
Adam: This was new, this UnFairchild plug-in was new around the time we were finishing things, so I ended up using this.

00:51:25.022 –> 00:51:29.502
Adam: This is typical me, it’s like, I got a new plug-in, I’m going to use it everywhere I can.

00:51:29.502 –> 00:51:34.162
Adam: Kind of a really great sounding Fairchild emulation, or UnFairchild.

00:51:34.162 –> 00:51:46.262
Adam: And then this is a trick I’ve stolen from John Rooney, this Brainworx True Peak Limiter on drums, just to kind of, sort of, you can clip and limit with it.

00:51:46.262 –> 00:51:51.422
Adam: Just a great way to control some peaks on the drum kit before it hits any bus processing.

00:51:51.422 –> 00:51:54.022
John Kennedy: And is Wes playing to anything there?

00:51:54.022 –> 00:51:55.262
Joe: I think he’s playing to the piano.

00:51:55.322 –> 00:51:56.142
Adam: Yeah, we had like a-

00:51:56.142 –> 00:51:58.102
John Kennedy: The piano first, did you hear that?

00:51:58.102 –> 00:51:58.322
John Kennedy: Which-

00:51:58.322 –> 00:51:59.682
John Kennedy: I wish I had the-

00:51:59.682 –> 00:52:04.182
Joe: The original one was different than the one, we chased this piano sound like I think-

00:52:04.182 –> 00:52:06.162
Adam: We recorded four times.

00:52:06.162 –> 00:52:08.942
Joe: In different rooms and what we ended up with was-

00:52:08.942 –> 00:52:20.382
Joe: In Studio D, there’s an electric lady, we actually went back and recorded the piano there, just cause it has this bright kind of honk, it’s like honk, it’s like not out of tune, but it’s like kind of a honky sort of sound.

00:52:20.382 –> 00:52:22.682
Adam: It’s a really loud piano, it’s like the loudest piano I think I’ve ever-

00:52:22.682 –> 00:52:30.042
Joe: You are smacking, Adam performed this, and he is smacking this piano, which you can’t really tell because of the processing on it, but it is-

00:52:30.902 –> 00:52:32.682
Joe: You can hear the room for sure.

00:52:34.782 –> 00:52:44.882
Adam: We split up, I realized this when I was looking at this earlier, we split right hand and left hand, so we could have more control over each of these parts.

00:52:44.882 –> 00:52:46.662
John Kennedy: Right.

00:52:46.662 –> 00:52:48.222
Joe: But you can-

00:52:48.802 –> 00:52:50.582
Joe: The hammer sound is like-

00:52:50.582 –> 00:52:52.922
Adam: I remember I’m playing, you kept saying like-

00:52:52.922 –> 00:52:53.302
Joe: Harder.

00:52:53.302 –> 00:52:55.742
Adam: Can you play any harder?

00:52:55.742 –> 00:52:59.762
Adam: I had headphones on and it was extremely loud.

00:52:59.902 –> 00:53:01.662
Adam: I think it’s the loudest I’ve ever played a piano.

00:53:01.662 –> 00:53:03.622
Adam: Just smashing my hand like this.

00:53:03.622 –> 00:53:08.002
Adam: But yeah, this is something I thought would be cool to mention.

00:53:08.002 –> 00:53:12.222
Adam: I feel like something we’ve learned making this album was not just settling.

00:53:12.222 –> 00:53:18.622
Adam: I feel like in the past, we would have maybe put plug-in after plug-in on a sound to try and turn it into something it isn’t.

00:53:18.622 –> 00:53:24.862
Adam: I feel like on this album, we had the resources to really, that isn’t the right source sound.

00:53:24.862 –> 00:53:26.482
Adam: We should try a different piano.

00:53:26.482 –> 00:53:27.862
Joe: Like just go for it.

00:53:28.022 –> 00:53:29.042
Joe: Like we’re going for this thing.

00:53:29.042 –> 00:53:29.962
Adam: We’re already here.

00:53:29.962 –> 00:53:31.642
Adam: I feel like we said so many times, like we’re here.

00:53:31.862 –> 00:53:33.062
Adam: Why don’t we go try again?

00:53:33.062 –> 00:53:40.242
Joe: We got to, like we owe it to ourselves to get the thing that we really want rather than try to just settle and make it work.

00:53:40.242 –> 00:53:46.542
Joe: Another hard thing about this track was there’s kind of like that tempo fluctuation that happens.

00:53:46.542 –> 00:53:49.582
Joe: That’s pretty subtle, but within the choruses.

00:53:49.582 –> 00:53:52.422
Joe: And that, especially for Wes, kudos to him.

00:53:52.422 –> 00:54:04.482
Joe: The way that me and Wes kind of work on these drum parts is we kind of Frankenstein it together because Wes is such like an adept player and able to make notes on the fly and able to incorporate things.

00:54:04.482 –> 00:54:13.162
Joe: But this is one of my favorite performances of his on the entire record, because it just feels like he’s really kind of making it up and it’s kind of falling out of him.

00:54:13.162 –> 00:54:16.182
Joe: And so this pre-chorus stuff, there’s a lot of genius.

00:54:17.302 –> 00:54:19.722
Adam: All these fills that he’s…

00:54:19.722 –> 00:54:20.522
Adam: Oh, when they come in.

00:54:32.855 –> 00:54:33.535
Joe: So interesting.

00:54:33.535 –> 00:54:37.135
John Kennedy: Yeah, and it’s nice hearing it in this stripped back way.

00:54:37.275 –> 00:54:39.115
Joe: Yeah, without all the little.

00:54:39.115 –> 00:54:40.895
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

00:54:40.895 –> 00:54:43.275
John Kennedy: And Adam, you said there was processing on the drums?

00:54:43.275 –> 00:54:43.655
Adam: Oh, yeah.

00:54:43.655 –> 00:54:44.715
Joe: What is on the drums?

00:54:44.715 –> 00:54:53.195
Adam: So individual mics, there’s just, I think this is, so I should say Zach Brown engineered these, and this was something he had on there.

00:54:53.195 –> 00:54:55.595
Adam: It’s like a live expander, I guess.

00:54:55.595 –> 00:54:57.275
Adam: It’s more common in live music.

00:54:57.275 –> 00:55:00.475
Adam: Oh, there’s a little bit of EQ there on the floor, Tom.

00:55:01.395 –> 00:55:05.615
Joe: This is also the board that they had at the studio was pretty colorful and beautiful.

00:55:05.615 –> 00:55:08.655
Adam: Not sure what the Neve is, but had a lot of color in it already.

00:55:08.655 –> 00:55:11.835
Adam: And then yeah, just bus processing, more EQ.

00:55:11.835 –> 00:55:13.935
Adam: Apparently there were a lot of upper mids going on.

00:55:13.935 –> 00:55:15.175
Joe: Not a lot, honestly.

00:55:15.175 –> 00:55:17.135
Adam: Yeah, sorry to say.

00:55:17.135 –> 00:55:18.615
Joe: Again, we were also-

00:55:18.615 –> 00:55:19.615
Adam: Yeah, moving quickly.

00:55:19.615 –> 00:55:28.535
Joe: Moving quickly, but then also like trying to get something, like trying to focus less on the processing after, trying to start with something that was maybe like 80% there.

00:55:28.535 –> 00:55:28.715
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:55:29.135 –> 00:55:29.735
Adam: I’m trying to think.

00:55:29.735 –> 00:55:31.955
Adam: We ended up adding a lot of compression.

00:55:31.955 –> 00:55:33.815
Adam: Let’s see how hard we’re hitting.

00:55:35.835 –> 00:55:38.575
Adam: Pretty good amount of compression.

00:55:38.575 –> 00:55:39.695
Adam: What’s this?

00:55:39.695 –> 00:55:43.275
Adam: Trim.

00:55:43.275 –> 00:55:47.235
Adam: Yeah, I think the big thing for this piano was just getting the right piano.

00:55:47.235 –> 00:55:47.795
Joe: Yeah.

00:55:47.795 –> 00:55:50.255
Adam: We tried a bunch of different pianos on this.

00:55:50.255 –> 00:55:55.915
Adam: It was like Yamaha U3, like a more modern dark piano and just wasn’t working.

00:55:55.915 –> 00:55:59.495
Joe: We did a combination also of a Mellotron, I think, at one point.

00:55:59.495 –> 00:56:09.315
Joe: There’s a couple of pianos settings on that, but it just sounded like, just because it’s so exposed, it’s that piano, the drums and the bass for the first verse.

00:56:09.315 –> 00:56:11.355
Joe: And so it just sounded like too clean.

00:56:11.355 –> 00:56:15.715
Joe: It needed to have a little bit more like, what’s this piano sort of going on with it?

00:56:15.715 –> 00:56:17.595
Joe: And so it took a while.

00:56:17.895 –> 00:56:19.455
John Kennedy: So what piano were you after?

00:56:19.455 –> 00:56:24.855
John Kennedy: Because in a way, it sounds like you were after something like a pub piano.

00:56:25.335 –> 00:56:27.215
John Kennedy: So it’s a bit like Charlie’s piano.

00:56:27.215 –> 00:56:30.135
John Kennedy: I know it’s like a piano that’s in a room that’s had a lot of wear and tear.

00:56:30.335 –> 00:56:31.695
John Kennedy: It still sounds very present.

00:56:31.695 –> 00:56:32.875
Joe: Yeah, exactly.

00:56:32.875 –> 00:56:35.475
John Kennedy: But you gotta find that.

00:56:35.475 –> 00:56:37.515
John Kennedy: And that was your trial.

00:56:37.515 –> 00:56:40.335
Adam: That, is it Opla Dee, Opla Dah piano?

00:56:40.335 –> 00:56:42.455
Adam: Yeah, or Lady Madonna or something like that.

00:56:42.455 –> 00:56:44.175
Joe: Like that piano.

00:56:44.175 –> 00:56:47.135
Adam: Very like honky tonk, but without being too out of tune.

00:56:47.135 –> 00:56:50.835
Joe: Right on the edge of like, and messy sort of.

00:56:50.835 –> 00:56:51.295
Adam: I don’t know.

00:56:51.295 –> 00:56:54.755
Adam: It’s just one of those things where you had it and you like know what it should be.

00:56:54.755 –> 00:56:57.675
Adam: And we just kept trying pianos until we were like, ah, finally got it.

00:56:57.675 –> 00:56:58.815
Joe: Most of them were too clean.

00:56:58.815 –> 00:57:00.115
Joe: It was too like, too controlled.

00:57:00.115 –> 00:57:04.275
Joe: Clean and too controlled and not like quite like, tonk, tonk, tonk, tonk.

00:57:04.275 –> 00:57:05.295
Joe: Yeah, let’s keep building this thing up.

00:57:05.295 –> 00:57:06.235
Joe: What else we got?

00:57:06.395 –> 00:57:13.255
Joe: We, you know, the demo, this, the pre-chorus strays away in this section.

00:57:13.255 –> 00:57:13.775
Adam: Some Wurlitzer.

00:57:13.775 –> 00:57:19.535
Joe: It’s kind of like the ELO hit, tonk, tonk, I think is very evocative of Jeff Lynn.

00:57:19.535 –> 00:57:22.475
Joe: And the Wurlitzer for me is super tramp.

00:57:22.475 –> 00:57:26.655
Joe: I think it’s like the chain there is like classic Wurly with chorus.

00:57:31.055 –> 00:57:33.115
Adam: Yeah, we were using, oh no, actually, I think it’s, here it is.

00:57:33.115 –> 00:57:36.475
Adam: Nice.

00:57:36.475 –> 00:57:43.995
Adam: But this is the, John has one of these bossy ones, the hardware, which I think this plugin is emulating.

00:57:44.355 –> 00:57:47.955
Joe: This is another sound that’s all over this record, is the Wurly chorus.

00:57:47.955 –> 00:57:48.915
Adam: The super tramp, yeah.

00:57:48.935 –> 00:57:50.715
Joe: The super tramp, you know.

00:57:50.715 –> 00:57:50.935
Joe: Yeah.

00:57:50.935 –> 00:57:52.995
Joe: Also, like Kevin Parker, I feel like uses this a lot.

00:57:52.995 –> 00:57:54.215
Joe: Yeah.

00:57:54.215 –> 00:57:56.455
Joe: But it’s just like beautiful.

00:57:56.455 –> 00:57:57.255
Adam: A great sound.

00:57:57.255 –> 00:57:57.915
Joe: It’s a great sound.

00:57:57.915 –> 00:58:03.055
John Kennedy: And it’s really interesting you point out that about the double drum hit that is an ELO signature.

00:58:03.055 –> 00:58:03.655
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:58:04.515 –> 00:58:10.695
John Kennedy: Because you tend to think of the vocals and the strings with ELO a bit, but the drums are such a big part.

00:58:10.695 –> 00:58:14.715
John Kennedy: But I like the fact that you’ve got that in your mind, that you’re thinking, oh, we want that.

00:58:14.755 –> 00:58:15.255
Joe: Yeah.

00:58:15.255 –> 00:58:15.575
Joe: Yeah.

00:58:15.575 –> 00:58:16.575
Joe: I mean, kudos to Adam.

00:58:16.575 –> 00:58:18.715
Joe: That was really like, well, what if we just do this?

00:58:18.815 –> 00:58:20.875
Joe: I was like, great, okay, that’s what we’re gonna do.

00:58:20.875 –> 00:58:26.735
Joe: And I also feel like the Wurlitzer taking over from the piano there in that section.

00:58:26.735 –> 00:58:27.255
Adam: Good scene change.

00:58:27.255 –> 00:58:29.595
Joe: The piano hitting the thing in the Wurlitzer.

00:58:29.595 –> 00:58:31.675
Joe: It’s always, I love a good scene change.

00:58:31.675 –> 00:58:32.595
Adam: Yeah.

00:58:32.595 –> 00:58:36.575
Adam: I’m gonna just maybe just see what isn’t a main element in here.

00:58:36.575 –> 00:58:37.135
Joe: Sure.

00:58:37.135 –> 00:58:39.375
Adam: I was trying to remember the story with these reverse 12 strings.

00:58:39.375 –> 00:58:40.675
Adam: Like, I don’t remember.

00:58:40.675 –> 00:58:41.415
Joe: Oh yeah, this was in.

00:58:44.895 –> 00:58:49.215
Joe: It’s a little guitar, Moog, this is.

00:58:49.215 –> 00:58:51.655
Adam: 12 string strums reversed.

00:58:55.375 –> 00:58:56.035
Adam: Little bell.

00:58:57.215 –> 00:58:58.975
Joe: Happened to be.

00:58:59.035 –> 00:59:00.415
Adam: In Jack Studio.

00:59:04.215 –> 00:59:07.615
Adam: Farfisa.

00:59:07.635 –> 00:59:09.315
Joe: Little guitar, I think.

00:59:10.675 –> 00:59:12.095
Joe: Little room on that side.

00:59:12.095 –> 00:59:14.855
Adam: Yeah.

00:59:14.855 –> 00:59:18.575
Joe: I love that Farfisa thing.

00:59:18.575 –> 00:59:20.975
Adam: Oh, here’s a.

00:59:20.975 –> 00:59:24.775
Joe: Oh, this is the golden instrument of this track.

00:59:24.775 –> 00:59:25.575
Joe: Solo this thing.

00:59:25.575 –> 00:59:26.635
Adam: Yeah.

00:59:26.635 –> 00:59:27.815
Joe: I don’t know, this is an ARP.

00:59:28.155 –> 00:59:28.855
Adam: What is this thing again?

00:59:28.855 –> 00:59:30.775
Adam: It was called the Pro DGX.

00:59:30.775 –> 00:59:31.315
Joe: This was another toy.

00:59:31.315 –> 00:59:32.695
Adam: Which I’ve never seen before.

00:59:32.695 –> 00:59:33.195
Adam: Yeah.

00:59:33.195 –> 00:59:35.335
Joe: It is the fartiest little instrument.

00:59:35.335 –> 00:59:38.575
Adam: It’s an ARP that had, it’s like a preset ARP.

00:59:38.575 –> 00:59:42.935
Adam: So you only have a few choices of sounds on it, but they all are so good.

00:59:42.935 –> 00:59:45.515
Adam: And there’s a tuba sound.

00:59:47.615 –> 00:59:49.015
John Kennedy: Right.

00:59:49.015 –> 00:59:53.075
John Kennedy: Because I was thinking, I could have sworn there’s tuba on this track.

00:59:53.075 –> 00:59:54.175
John Kennedy: But it isn’t quite tuba.

00:59:54.495 –> 00:59:55.875
Joe: Adam is a tuba player also.

00:59:55.935 –> 00:59:56.595
John Kennedy: Oh, you are?

00:59:56.595 –> 00:59:56.815
John Kennedy: Really?

00:59:56.815 –> 00:59:59.195
Adam: I’m a player too, but…

00:59:59.195 –> 01:00:02.735
Adam: Yeah.

01:00:02.735 –> 01:00:03.215
Joe: But it’s good.

01:00:03.215 –> 01:00:05.995
Joe: I feel like the character of it, it fits like perfect.

01:00:05.995 –> 01:00:08.395
Joe: It’s like, you know, fits really good.

01:00:08.395 –> 01:00:14.675
Adam: Very kind of just a fun sort of goofy Paul McCartney energy going on.

01:00:14.675 –> 01:00:15.935
John Kennedy: Let’s hear a bit more, please.

01:00:15.935 –> 01:00:17.095
Adam: Yeah.

01:00:17.095 –> 01:00:19.095
Adam: Let’s see what else we got in here.

01:00:20.415 –> 01:00:20.875
Adam: Oh yeah.

01:00:22.295 –> 01:00:23.595
Joe: This is my pal Charlie.

01:00:23.595 –> 01:00:23.775
John Kennedy: Right.

01:00:23.775 –> 01:00:26.615
Joe: He’s probably on your way, but we’re not going to get to you tonight.

01:00:26.615 –> 01:00:28.755
John Kennedy: Had you scripted it out or was he?

01:00:28.755 –> 01:00:30.075
Joe: No, he just totally did this.

01:00:30.075 –> 01:00:35.575
Joe: We were kind of like, hey, so there’s this like, we knew we wanted him to be on the track.

01:00:35.575 –> 01:00:36.755
Joe: We didn’t know how.

01:00:36.755 –> 01:00:37.335
Joe: The drums were done.

01:00:37.335 –> 01:00:38.055
Joe: He’s a drummer.

01:00:38.055 –> 01:00:38.995
Joe: So the drums were done.

01:00:38.995 –> 01:00:40.795
Joe: He plays a lot of instruments, honestly.

01:00:40.795 –> 01:00:43.935
Joe: He’s a great musician, writes songs.

01:00:43.935 –> 01:00:48.375
Joe: But I was like, it’d be great if there’s some sort of like, I don’t know, something here.

01:00:48.375 –> 01:00:50.375
Joe: And I forget how we came up with the concept.

01:00:50.375 –> 01:00:52.095
Joe: We kind of were just like, let’s just go for that.

01:00:53.315 –> 01:01:01.495
Joe: The phone, the little phone, the pickup thing is Adam’s childhood, Adam’s childhood phone that he has at his house in Atlanta.

01:01:01.495 –> 01:01:06.315
Adam: My parents had a landline and they were cleaning a bunch of stuff out and they were like, do you want any of this stuff?

01:01:06.315 –> 01:01:07.815
Adam: And I was like, I’ll take the phone.

01:01:07.815 –> 01:01:08.215
Adam: I don’t know.

01:01:08.215 –> 01:01:10.875
Adam: But now it’s, you know, we made a sample out of it.

01:01:10.875 –> 01:01:13.875
Adam: Not the ringing, but this has like a great-

01:01:13.875 –> 01:01:15.035
Adam: So good.

01:01:15.435 –> 01:01:16.375
Joe: And then, yeah.

01:01:16.475 –> 01:01:18.775
Joe: And it fits perfectly Charlie’s little bit.

01:01:18.775 –> 01:01:20.235
Adam: Maybe Thursday, maybe Friday.

01:01:20.235 –> 01:01:21.655
Joe: I’ve definitely gotten this call before.

01:01:22.315 –> 01:01:23.475
Joe: On your way to work.

01:01:23.475 –> 01:01:24.095
Joe: Don’t need you.

01:01:24.095 –> 01:01:24.435
Joe: Okay.

01:01:24.435 –> 01:01:24.835
Adam: Yeah.

01:01:24.835 –> 01:01:25.635
Adam: Turn back around.

01:01:25.635 –> 01:01:27.255
Adam: Let’s go back home.

01:01:27.255 –> 01:01:31.655
Adam: Oh, I wanted to highlight your very groovy tambourine playing on this song.

01:01:31.655 –> 01:01:31.975
Joe: Please.

01:01:31.975 –> 01:01:33.615
Joe: I would love to hear it.

01:01:35.275 –> 01:01:35.995
Joe: Oh, thank you.

01:01:35.995 –> 01:01:40.615
Adam: Oh, and this is an old trick I like on percussion.

01:01:40.615 –> 01:01:42.395
Adam: Some Sound Toys Devil Lock.

01:01:42.475 –> 01:01:44.955
Adam: I use this a lot all the time.

01:01:44.955 –> 01:01:46.535
Adam: And some Microshift on there.

01:01:46.535 –> 01:01:48.035
Adam: It’s used a ton.

01:01:48.035 –> 01:01:48.435
Adam: Yeah.

01:01:48.435 –> 01:01:49.275
Adam: I was listening to this.

01:01:49.275 –> 01:01:50.475
Adam: I was like, why did I do this?

01:01:54.135 –> 01:01:57.375
Joe: I think this was a very small tambourine, if I remember correctly.

01:01:57.375 –> 01:01:58.455
Joe: It was like this big.

01:02:01.435 –> 01:02:05.435
Adam: I just love how, like, you got these little shakes in between.

01:02:09.295 –> 01:02:11.695
Joe: Layering of that, too, but they’re…

01:02:11.695 –> 01:02:12.575
Joe: Oh, I love that.

01:02:13.295 –> 01:02:13.935
Adam: Oh, yeah.

01:02:13.975 –> 01:02:16.635
Joe: That thing, that’s like a late stage.

01:02:16.635 –> 01:02:19.355
Joe: Adam’s house, a little throw.

01:02:19.355 –> 01:02:21.715
Joe: That to me also is very ELO, that thing.

01:02:21.715 –> 01:02:26.495
Adam: Yeah, there was another song that we had put something like this on.

01:02:26.495 –> 01:02:27.715
Adam: You remember what it was?

01:02:27.715 –> 01:02:28.935
Adam: I don’t remember.

01:02:28.935 –> 01:02:30.155
Joe: Oh, Fly.

01:02:30.155 –> 01:02:30.515
Adam: Fly.

01:02:30.515 –> 01:02:32.135
Adam: So we were like, oh, this is a good tie-in.

01:02:32.135 –> 01:02:33.735
Joe: Looks like tie, yeah, exactly.

01:02:33.775 –> 01:02:34.635
Joe: That’s exactly right.

01:02:34.635 –> 01:02:40.095
Joe: We were like, okay, what other song could we put this sound on to kind of like do it like a little delay thing?

01:02:40.095 –> 01:02:43.215
Adam: I live in a pretty tiny house in my studio.

01:02:43.435 –> 01:02:49.415
Adam: It would, you know, living with my wife, Carolina, guitar amps would not go over so well.

01:02:49.415 –> 01:02:56.655
Adam: So we were using this Vox AC-30 emulation from UA.

01:02:56.655 –> 01:02:57.655
Adam: That is great.

01:02:57.655 –> 01:02:58.935
Joe: It’s great.

01:02:58.935 –> 01:02:59.575
Joe: Really great.

01:02:59.575 –> 01:03:00.255
Adam: Yeah.

01:03:00.255 –> 01:03:01.355
Adam: Let’s see what it sounds like without.

01:03:05.855 –> 01:03:06.475
Joe: Like a little mosquito.

01:03:06.475 –> 01:03:09.175
Adam: Yeah, more echo boy.

01:03:09.175 –> 01:03:10.795
Adam: A little bit of EQ.

01:03:10.795 –> 01:03:12.975
Adam: Not doing too much.

01:03:12.975 –> 01:03:15.755
Adam: But yeah, that’s a great kind of lifts that.

01:03:15.755 –> 01:03:16.495
Adam: Let’s play that.

01:03:16.535 –> 01:03:18.595
Joe: Also, again, good for like a scene change.

01:03:18.595 –> 01:03:20.235
Joe: Like, whoa, here we are.

01:03:20.235 –> 01:03:21.755
Adam: Here’s without this.

01:03:23.835 –> 01:03:25.155
Adam: Yeah, fine.

01:03:26.515 –> 01:03:26.795
Adam: Great.

01:03:29.055 –> 01:03:33.655
Joe: It’s like the accumulation of these little bits that add to the whole thing.

01:03:33.655 –> 01:03:37.875
Joe: It’s Steve Christensen calls them gags.

01:03:37.875 –> 01:03:39.995
Joe: He’s like, hey, you guys are pretty good at your gags.

01:03:39.995 –> 01:03:45.955
Joe: I feel like there is the base of a song and the song as a whole.

01:03:45.955 –> 01:03:48.755
Joe: But then sprinkling in these little things, it’s so fun.

01:03:48.755 –> 01:03:58.715
Joe: Then fun to try to just come up with creative ways to just slightly lift each little section and to make your life harder when you play live.

01:03:58.715 –> 01:04:00.535
Adam: Much harder.

01:04:00.535 –> 01:04:06.375
Adam: Also I just realized, I think we both share that we don’t, neither of us loves symbols for some reason.

01:04:06.375 –> 01:04:06.675
Joe: Oh yeah.

01:04:06.675 –> 01:04:09.715
Adam: They just kind of take up a lot of space in a mix.

01:04:09.715 –> 01:04:15.835
Adam: So this is like a transitional sound in place of where maybe a drummer would have played a crash.

01:04:18.815 –> 01:04:19.995
Joe: So hard to control.

01:04:19.995 –> 01:04:21.175
Joe: Maybe that says something about us.

01:04:24.455 –> 01:04:26.835
Adam: I’m trying to think if there’s anything.

01:04:26.835 –> 01:04:29.455
Adam: Oh.

01:04:29.455 –> 01:04:30.475
Joe: These backgrounds maybe?

01:04:30.475 –> 01:04:30.895
Adam: Yeah.

01:04:30.895 –> 01:04:38.935
Adam: I wanted to highlight maybe some of the, in Jack’s space, there’s like a hallway entrance that he’s rigged up with.

01:04:38.935 –> 01:04:40.015
Adam: There’s a wall panel.

01:04:40.015 –> 01:04:45.895
Adam: You can plug in mics in the space and we use that a lot for, the claps might be a good thing now.

01:04:45.895 –> 01:04:48.335
Joe: Yeah, the claps are fantastic.

01:04:48.335 –> 01:04:50.595
Joe: This whole honky tonky section or whatever.

01:04:50.635 –> 01:04:52.775
Adam: There’s no processing on these claps.

01:04:52.775 –> 01:04:56.275
Adam: This is just the natural room sound.

01:04:56.275 –> 01:04:57.815
Adam: Right.

01:04:57.815 –> 01:04:58.555
Joe: That’s so great.

01:04:58.555 –> 01:05:01.395
Adam: It’s a great length of a reverb.

01:05:01.395 –> 01:05:07.575
Adam: I think Zach, the engineer on this, he had an idea to do some of the vocal stuff out there.

01:05:09.255 –> 01:05:11.315
Adam: Yeah, you recorded these out there.

01:05:15.015 –> 01:05:17.535
Adam: Let me cue to clean it up.

01:05:17.535 –> 01:05:19.735
Adam: A lot of compression.

01:05:19.735 –> 01:05:20.775
Adam: But yeah, you can kind of just hear.

01:05:20.775 –> 01:05:24.955
Joe: You got to pull up the, ah, to our Todd Terz call out.

01:05:24.955 –> 01:05:25.575
Adam: Where’s that at?

01:05:26.295 –> 01:05:28.295
Joe: That’s in pre-chorus one, I think.

01:05:31.955 –> 01:05:32.575
Adam: That.

01:05:32.575 –> 01:05:34.215
Joe: I love that.

01:05:35.515 –> 01:05:38.015
Joe: This was when we were doing the gang.

01:05:38.015 –> 01:05:39.155
Joe: That was in Electric Lady.

01:05:39.155 –> 01:05:40.495
Joe: We did the gang vocals with Kate.

01:05:40.555 –> 01:05:42.455
Adam: No, I think these two, sorry to.

01:05:42.455 –> 01:05:43.035
Joe: No, please, please.

01:05:43.035 –> 01:05:45.875
Adam: I think these were from that same hallway.

01:05:45.875 –> 01:05:48.255
Adam: This was with Matt and V and Wes.

01:05:48.395 –> 01:05:52.475
Joe: Oh yeah, but didn’t we do this stuff also with my sisters, too?

01:05:52.475 –> 01:05:56.795
Joe: Because I remember at the end, like if we go to the Motown section.

01:05:56.795 –> 01:05:57.575
Adam: Yeah, there’s more.

01:05:57.575 –> 01:05:59.835
Joe: There’s like all the call and response vocals that.

01:05:59.835 –> 01:06:00.235
Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:00.235 –> 01:06:00.975
Joe: You should highlight those.

01:06:00.975 –> 01:06:02.495
Joe: Those are really cool.

01:06:04.375 –> 01:06:06.335
Adam: Yeah.

01:06:06.335 –> 01:06:07.275
Joe: Yeah, cause that’s Kate Nemo.

01:06:14.075 –> 01:06:15.495
Joe: That’s in Electric Lady.

01:06:15.495 –> 01:06:16.415
Adam: Yeah.

01:06:16.415 –> 01:06:16.595
Adam: Yeah.

01:06:23.277 –> 01:06:26.297
Adam: Yeah, we were using this a lot, this gang vocal.

01:06:26.297 –> 01:06:31.217
Joe: Yeah, just like, again, the gang vocal was another thing that tied everything together.

01:06:31.217 –> 01:06:40.297
Joe: All these voices that are repeating on the whole thing, it’s just like, it was later in the, maybe the last six months, we started just putting all these things everywhere.

01:06:40.297 –> 01:06:47.317
Joe: And my sisters, credit to them, man, they’re like not classically trained singers, but they can sing, man, they are so good.

01:06:47.317 –> 01:06:48.877
Joe: And their voices blended so well with mine.

01:06:49.557 –> 01:06:50.657
Joe: Which was crazy.

01:06:50.657 –> 01:06:53.657
Adam: Yeah, got the sibling magic going.

01:06:53.657 –> 01:06:57.937
Adam: And then, I was trying to also, to keep it moving, just the outro.

01:06:57.937 –> 01:07:02.497
Adam: We spent some time working out how to get from a key change into the outro.

01:07:09.830 –> 01:07:12.910
Adam: Sometimes, it’s kind of like the different background thing.

01:07:12.910 –> 01:07:15.990
Adam: Sometimes you’ll be like, oh, I want this to be a key change.

01:07:15.990 –> 01:07:17.150
Adam: How do we get from here to here?

01:07:17.150 –> 01:07:22.450
Adam: And then I’ll have to just sit there and kind of work backwards and be like, oh yeah, we could do, get there.

01:07:22.450 –> 01:07:29.450
Joe: Definitely a skill set of Adam’s that is like, basically, I think the demo that I sent him ended here.

01:07:30.650 –> 01:07:37.750
Joe: And then from here on, is like we were sitting at the piano trying to figure out how to get into the outro.

01:07:38.110 –> 01:07:41.810
Joe: To the outro, which is like, basically the idea was like, let’s modulate.

01:07:41.810 –> 01:07:43.770
Joe: Why don’t we just modulate the whole thing up?

01:07:43.770 –> 01:07:47.870
Joe: And so it’s kind of like an invisible modulation that you don’t really notice.

01:07:47.870 –> 01:07:51.710
Joe: And the outro just has kind of like a little bit of a brighter, now we’re up here.

01:07:51.710 –> 01:07:52.830
Adam: Yeah.

01:07:52.830 –> 01:07:53.550
Joe: You know?

01:07:53.550 –> 01:07:56.910
Joe: And you kind of ride off into the sunset a little bit.

01:07:56.910 –> 01:08:01.850
John Kennedy: But you have added those piccolos that, or is it a piccolo?

01:08:01.850 –> 01:08:02.790
John Kennedy: I looked at the track listing.

01:08:02.790 –> 01:08:03.850
Adam: Oh, Piccolo Trumpet there.

01:08:03.870 –> 01:08:05.050
John Kennedy: Yeah, the Trumpet there.

01:08:05.050 –> 01:08:06.210
Adam: Yeah.

01:08:06.210 –> 01:08:13.290
Adam: This is Josh Speck, who was someone I’ve collaborated with and turned out that Zach Brown, who did the…

01:08:13.290 –> 01:08:14.970
Joe: They were like roommates or something?

01:08:14.970 –> 01:08:16.250
Adam: They lived right down the street from…

01:08:16.250 –> 01:08:21.390
Adam: So we were both like, we knew, I think the idea for a trumpet came up and I was like, oh, I know this player, Josh.

01:08:21.390 –> 01:08:23.990
Adam: Or maybe Zach was like, oh, I know Josh, this player.

01:08:23.990 –> 01:08:25.970
Adam: And I was like, what?

01:08:25.970 –> 01:08:28.310
Joe: It was like we sent it to him and…

01:08:28.310 –> 01:08:32.390
Adam: Yeah, he turned it around so fast and we were like, well, perfect, just drop it in.

01:08:33.070 –> 01:08:34.970
John Kennedy: Oh, so he just dropped it, he just recorded it himself.

01:08:34.970 –> 01:08:35.430
John Kennedy: Yeah, he recorded it.

01:08:35.430 –> 01:08:37.550
Joe: We did three versions and we were like, cool.

01:08:37.550 –> 01:08:38.830
Adam: Yeah, great.

01:08:38.830 –> 01:08:45.510
Adam: And then I think we just printed a plate from Electric Lady on there.

01:08:45.510 –> 01:08:50.190
Adam: Amazing.

01:08:50.190 –> 01:08:52.470
Joe: Like, come on.

01:08:52.470 –> 01:08:59.990
Joe: I think he just identified exactly also like, you know, the style, like the staccato playing and sort of the triumphant nature of the whole part.

01:09:00.070 –> 01:09:03.490
Joe: He just like captured exactly what I was thinking would be cool.

01:09:03.490 –> 01:09:05.850
Joe: And again, that was just like part of the process.

01:09:05.850 –> 01:09:06.770
Joe: Just like, what would be cool?

01:09:06.770 –> 01:09:07.690
Joe: Oh, Trump would be cool.

01:09:07.690 –> 01:09:08.690
Joe: How could we make this work?

01:09:08.690 –> 01:09:09.630
Joe: You know?

01:09:09.630 –> 01:09:11.470
Joe: Yeah, that’s definitely part of our process.

01:09:11.470 –> 01:09:15.050
Joe: Just like, you know, let’s just try a lot of trying a bunch of stuff.

01:09:15.050 –> 01:09:15.690
Adam: Yeah.

01:09:15.690 –> 01:09:15.990
Adam: Yeah.

01:09:16.030 –> 01:09:17.410
Adam: Then the outro was sort of…

01:09:21.390 –> 01:09:24.810
Adam: Very different groove on the drums suddenly.

01:09:24.810 –> 01:09:28.030
Joe: Yeah, kind of a Stevie Wonder with Superstition.

01:09:32.030 –> 01:09:32.650
Joe: Came across.

01:09:35.990 –> 01:09:38.950
Joe: And then add on the absolute…

01:09:43.090 –> 01:09:45.650
Joe: Like Herbie Hancock is what this reminds me of.

01:09:45.650 –> 01:09:46.950
Joe: With the drums.

01:09:48.930 –> 01:09:49.370
Joe: So good.

01:09:50.530 –> 01:09:52.310
Adam: And a little bit of Microshift for the width.

01:09:53.530 –> 01:09:57.690
Adam: And then Jack had this in his studio that I fell in love with.

01:09:57.690 –> 01:10:02.550
Adam: This Digitech Talker, Focoder.

01:10:02.550 –> 01:10:12.570
Adam: One day, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Print day.

01:10:12.570 –> 01:10:13.370
Joe: Unknown day.

01:10:14.950 –> 01:10:15.470
Joe: We did eight days.

01:10:15.470 –> 01:10:16.210
Joe: We did eight days.

01:10:16.210 –> 01:10:17.690
Joe: We made up a day.

01:10:19.990 –> 01:10:20.970
Joe: What else we got in here?

01:10:20.970 –> 01:10:21.670
Joe: Anything?

01:10:21.670 –> 01:10:23.850
Adam: Keyboards, it’s Farfisa.

01:10:25.910 –> 01:10:27.310
Joe: And we kind of ride off into the night.

01:10:27.310 –> 01:10:31.310
Joe: And then we also, it’s kind of, I really like the way that the transition on the record ended up happening.

01:10:31.310 –> 01:10:42.610
Joe: I think we had a fade out for a while on this, but connecting it kind of directly to Gaptooth felt like it kind of gave Gaptooth a little bit of a kind of fire into the next section by sort of interrupting the groove that we’re a part of.

01:10:42.690 –> 01:10:53.190
Joe: And also felt like a throwback to kind of Twenty Twenty, the first record that we did, which was like, there was kind of like a story happening amidst kind of outside of the music and the lyrics themselves.

01:10:53.190 –> 01:10:58.490
Joe: There was like a story that we had for ourselves about like the setting of when this record was being played.

01:10:58.490 –> 01:11:00.290
Joe: This is almost like a cool throwback to that.

01:11:02.710 –> 01:11:03.590
John Kennedy: As Charlie comes back.

01:11:07.270 –> 01:11:09.130
Adam: Turn the grown back around, we’re going back to work.

01:11:13.790 –> 01:11:15.010
Adam: And it just ends.

01:11:15.010 –> 01:11:15.890
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

01:11:15.890 –> 01:11:17.030
John Kennedy: So good.

01:11:17.030 –> 01:11:20.690
John Kennedy: So rich and yet in some ways, quite simply rich.

01:11:20.810 –> 01:11:22.810
John Kennedy: You haven’t hired the orchestra.

01:11:22.810 –> 01:11:27.170
John Kennedy: You haven’t kind of gone the full George Martin in a way.

01:11:27.170 –> 01:11:30.790
John Kennedy: But you’ve got all those nods there to so many different eras as well.

01:11:31.110 –> 01:11:31.810
John Kennedy: I love that.

01:11:31.810 –> 01:11:40.510
John Kennedy: It’s almost as if yes, the Beatles are a reference point, but then everybody who’s been influenced and inspired by the Beatles is given a nod as well.

01:11:40.510 –> 01:11:41.070
Joe: Definitely.

01:11:41.070 –> 01:11:41.910
John Kennedy: Which is fantastic.

01:11:41.910 –> 01:11:42.730
Joe: Yeah, absolutely.

01:11:42.730 –> 01:11:48.710
Joe: And it’s just like, we were just talking about this document I was listening to, like who were the people that inspired the Beatles as well?

01:11:49.210 –> 01:11:50.430
Joe: And thinking about those folks.

01:11:50.430 –> 01:11:51.370
Joe: So, yeah.

01:11:51.370 –> 01:11:52.090
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

01:11:52.090 –> 01:11:52.530
Joe: Yeah.

01:11:52.530 –> 01:11:53.530
John Kennedy: So that’s Charlie’s Garden.

01:11:53.610 –> 01:11:56.750
John Kennedy: We’re going to have another quick break and then we’re going to look at Egg.

01:11:56.750 –> 01:12:00.090
Adam: Great.

01:12:00.090 –> 01:12:03.590
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at from The Crux album is Egg.

01:12:04.030 –> 01:12:06.790
John Kennedy: So, I guess if you could give us a blast of The Master, Adam, that would be brilliant.

01:12:53.096 –> 01:12:55.836
John Kennedy: It is Egg from The Crux.

01:12:55.836 –> 01:12:59.396
John Kennedy: So this is different again, especially to the tracks that we’ve been looking at today.

01:12:59.396 –> 01:13:04.116
John Kennedy: So what’s going on here, and where did the initial idea come from?

01:13:04.116 –> 01:13:06.976
Joe: I think we pulled up a couple of little…

01:13:06.976 –> 01:13:13.496
Joe: This was an instrumental idea more than anything else, and didn’t really have much of a melody, I think, to begin with.

01:13:13.496 –> 01:13:15.296
Joe: I think we have a couple of different things.

01:13:15.296 –> 01:13:19.576
Joe: This was Late Night Electric Lady just on my own.

01:13:19.576 –> 01:13:21.876
Joe: I think it was like a Friday, they had nothing to do and went in.

01:13:21.876 –> 01:13:23.776
Joe: They had like an empty lounge.

01:13:27.716 –> 01:13:30.156
Joe: Basically the climax of the song.

01:13:30.156 –> 01:13:30.496
Joe: Yeah.

01:13:30.496 –> 01:13:31.576
Joe: The vocal, I think is…

01:13:37.336 –> 01:13:38.856
Joe: So, figuring it out.

01:13:38.856 –> 01:13:43.036
Adam: Yeah, and you had sent me this also, this is kind of the verse.

01:13:44.516 –> 01:13:54.576
Joe: This was a totally different idea, just another little bit, and one that we eventually kind of used this as a pre-chorus, came back to, I think it…

01:13:54.576 –> 01:13:55.416
Joe: you keep playing it.

01:14:06.985 –> 01:14:11.725
Adam: So you had remembered this, and kind of worked on it on the piano, also.

01:14:17.585 –> 01:14:20.625
Adam: But yeah, this was floating around for a while, I think.

01:14:20.625 –> 01:14:21.965
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:14:21.965 –> 01:14:22.745
Joe: We knew we wanted to.

01:14:22.745 –> 01:14:25.085
Joe: Basically, that’s the chorus of the song.

01:14:25.085 –> 01:14:39.705
Joe: And we, if you go back to that original, the other demo, we demoed a version of this song with a completely different verse that’s very live, very kind of like, Blue Oyster Cult, or like, kind of like, the way that West describes it is perfect.

01:14:39.705 –> 01:14:43.645
Joe: But I do think we should maybe just play a little hot second of this, because it’s kind of cool.

01:14:56.463 –> 01:15:02.163
Joe: And there was a different vocal idea, so we kind of really went down this road for a while.

01:15:03.363 –> 01:15:11.103
Joe: Choruses were the same, and we had the kind of outtrue of the song, starting from the last chorus, but we kind of, I guess, weren’t sure how to get there.

01:15:11.103 –> 01:15:13.983
Joe: We really liked this, the production was really cool, but…

01:15:13.983 –> 01:15:15.003
Adam: I don’t know why you just didn’t…

01:15:15.003 –> 01:15:16.943
Joe: The melody, there was no melody.

01:15:16.943 –> 01:15:19.943
Joe: We couldn’t come up with a melody that we really liked.

01:15:22.883 –> 01:15:24.883
Adam: Yeah, and then this part kind of stays the same.

01:15:25.003 –> 01:15:27.043
Joe: We have all this still.

01:15:27.043 –> 01:15:27.943
Adam: Yeah.

01:15:27.943 –> 01:15:30.763
Joe: So then, what we really ended up doing is just working the thing back.

01:15:30.923 –> 01:15:33.843
Joe: We took the things that we liked, so there’s that little pre-chorus.

01:15:33.843 –> 01:15:35.523
Joe: It says…

01:15:35.523 –> 01:15:38.203
Joe: And then we actually also went back to the…

01:15:39.923 –> 01:15:42.123
Joe: That little thing in the second demo that we played.

01:15:42.123 –> 01:15:52.623
Joe: And we stripped it back, me and Adam, and I think Wes wasn’t in the studio, so it was Adam playing keys, and I’m actually playing drums, I guess, for…

01:15:52.663 –> 01:15:53.423
Joe: The verses.

01:15:53.423 –> 01:15:54.643
Joe: They sort of…

01:15:54.643 –> 01:15:56.603
Adam: Here’s Joe on the drums.

01:15:58.183 –> 01:16:00.003
Joe: Now this is a very difficult drum part.

01:16:00.043 –> 01:16:01.083
Adam: Yeah.

01:16:01.323 –> 01:16:07.383
Joe: And something that’s pretty important, I feel like, in this is obviously the processing.

01:16:07.383 –> 01:16:08.143
Adam: Yeah.

01:16:08.143 –> 01:16:09.123
Joe: Pretty simple.

01:16:09.123 –> 01:16:10.003
Adam: Yeah, this was in…

01:16:10.003 –> 01:16:12.343
Adam: If I take the verbs off there…

01:16:12.343 –> 01:16:14.263
Joe: Honestly, you know what it is, is the jingle bell.

01:16:14.263 –> 01:16:14.883
Adam: Oh, yeah.

01:16:14.883 –> 01:16:18.603
Joe: That’s like the Beach Boys jingle bell is big in this track.

01:16:18.603 –> 01:16:23.683
Adam: We recorded those in Studio D at Electric Lady, which is the smaller live room.

01:16:23.683 –> 01:16:32.043
Adam: So we added some verb and then there’s the jingle bell, which does a lot for me.

01:16:32.043 –> 01:16:32.563
Adam: Snare hits.

01:16:32.563 –> 01:16:32.923
Adam: Yeah.

01:16:32.923 –> 01:16:37.803
Joe: It just makes it a little more like Christmas.

01:16:40.123 –> 01:16:41.563
Joe: And then you got Adam.

01:16:45.643 –> 01:16:52.603
Adam: Oh yeah, we just were like the simplest possible verse to leave way more space for a vocal melody.

01:16:52.603 –> 01:16:53.623
Adam: I think we run into that.

01:16:53.623 –> 01:16:57.043
Joe: We basically wanted to just like, yeah, leave the room.

01:16:57.043 –> 01:17:01.543
Joe: Leave real estate for there to be a melody and don’t take too much melodic real estate.

01:17:01.543 –> 01:17:02.683
Joe: We’re just like space.

01:17:02.683 –> 01:17:04.563
Joe: And we knew that this song was going to be a big…

01:17:04.563 –> 01:17:05.743
Joe: A build.

01:17:05.743 –> 01:17:06.683
Joe: Basically a big build.

01:17:06.683 –> 01:17:08.823
Joe: So why not try to just start as small as you could?

01:17:08.823 –> 01:17:09.763
Adam: Yeah.

01:17:09.763 –> 01:17:12.683
Adam: And there’s really, I don’t think there’s really anything else in there except the vocal.

01:17:12.683 –> 01:17:15.303
Joe: There’s a fair amount of like weird stuff in here.

01:17:15.363 –> 01:17:17.203
Joe: That’s like that, what about him though?

01:17:17.203 –> 01:17:19.723
Joe: That thing, there’s, what’s on that thing?

01:17:22.543 –> 01:17:25.523
Joe: That’s kind of like, I love this delay.

01:17:25.523 –> 01:17:26.903
Joe: It’s almost like Kendrick Lamar.

01:17:26.903 –> 01:17:29.823
Joe: I always think of Element, that song.

01:17:29.823 –> 01:17:30.983
Adam: Yeah, that was you.

01:17:30.983 –> 01:17:32.483
Adam: You were like, let’s try this delay on here.

01:17:32.483 –> 01:17:33.683
Adam: Who’s without any delay?

01:17:35.663 –> 01:17:37.643
Joe: But there’s also some sort of pitch thing going on.

01:17:37.663 –> 01:17:38.103
Adam: Yeah.

01:17:38.103 –> 01:17:38.983
Adam: Two of these.

01:17:38.983 –> 01:17:40.843
Adam: I think it’s Little Altar Boy.

01:17:40.843 –> 01:17:42.603
Joe: Which we love in this family.

01:17:42.603 –> 01:17:44.723
Adam: Yeah, we use a lot Little Altar Boy.

01:17:46.643 –> 01:17:52.283
Joe: It’s just a nice way to add a little bit of depth and richness, especially below something.

01:17:52.283 –> 01:17:54.103
Joe: It’s just a bit like underlining something.

01:17:54.103 –> 01:17:54.703
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:17:54.703 –> 01:17:57.263
John Kennedy: Where is that sound on the track?

01:17:57.263 –> 01:17:58.243
Adam: Oh, yeah.

01:17:58.243 –> 01:17:59.823
Adam: Let me play the full.

01:18:03.603 –> 01:18:06.443
Adam: Just right at the end of the verse.

01:18:06.443 –> 01:18:09.243
John Kennedy: Because when you isolate, it sounds spooky.

01:18:09.243 –> 01:18:10.203
Adam: Yeah, it does.

01:18:10.203 –> 01:18:18.503
Joe: I think a lot of this song is having little elements like that, that maybe you don’t notice but inform a little bit of a sense of uneasiness.

01:18:18.503 –> 01:18:24.843
Adam: We did some of this in Ableton where we get a little freakier with production stuff.

01:18:27.263 –> 01:18:29.883
Adam: There’s lots of copy-pasting.

01:18:29.883 –> 01:18:30.443
Joe: That’s a…

01:18:30.443 –> 01:18:33.423
Joe: Yeah, we love to take a note.

01:18:33.423 –> 01:18:34.763
Joe: Copy-paste, copy-paste.

01:18:34.763 –> 01:18:37.203
Adam: Just leaving little air gaps.

01:18:37.263 –> 01:18:37.523
Joe: Yeah.

01:18:38.603 –> 01:18:40.963
Adam: Some sort of bit crusher on here.

01:18:40.983 –> 01:18:42.223
Adam: That is…

01:18:44.523 –> 01:18:46.743
Adam: There’s some mogrisers in here.

01:18:46.743 –> 01:18:51.003
Adam: This is kind of a reference to some of the stuff from this side.

01:19:00.597 –> 01:19:04.597
Adam: Reversing the last hit on the piano, just little things like that.

01:19:04.597 –> 01:19:11.257
Adam: And I feel like the plate on your voice in this is a big part of the…

01:19:11.257 –> 01:19:15.277
Joe: This is the plate in Studio B, I’m pretty sure, just like fully…

01:19:15.277 –> 01:19:18.977
Joe: So it sounds like the lead vocal is like all of a sudden…

01:19:18.977 –> 01:19:20.917
Adam: Yeah.

01:19:20.997 –> 01:19:21.977
Adam: And here’s without the plate.

01:19:28.907 –> 01:19:30.207
Adam: The plate, really.

01:19:32.347 –> 01:19:40.527
Joe: And then in this next half of the, there’s a lot of, a big part of the song is like the production, the texture, the…

01:19:49.867 –> 01:19:51.727
Joe: Like that little stab thing.

01:19:51.727 –> 01:20:00.767
Adam: Yeah, this is, we were kind of like going back and forth on the level of this sound, where we just printed, and I can’t remember where it comes from in the song.

01:20:00.767 –> 01:20:06.847
Adam: We just took a little bit of the whole master of a hit, and then used that as a sample.

01:20:06.847 –> 01:20:07.867
Joe: To try to…

01:20:07.867 –> 01:20:10.127
Adam: Kind of like make people uncomfortable in the…

01:20:10.127 –> 01:20:13.447
Adam: Because the song is about fear, is a big theme of the song.

01:20:13.447 –> 01:20:18.087
Adam: So there’s a few moments in here where we’re trying to kind of intentionally freak someone out.

01:20:18.087 –> 01:20:21.987
Adam: Sorry to anyone that got scared by the song.

01:20:21.987 –> 01:20:24.967
Adam: But yeah, that band hit, we’ve kind of played with…

01:20:24.967 –> 01:20:29.267
Adam: It started out as really loud, like clipping the master loud.

01:20:29.267 –> 01:20:34.107
Adam: And I think we’ve ended up in a more reasonable place where people’s ears weren’t going to get destroyed.

01:20:42.423 –> 01:20:44.203
Adam: Oh, talk about Zem.

01:20:44.203 –> 01:20:47.203
Joe: Zem plays with Jack’s band, Bleacher’s, great, great.

01:20:47.203 –> 01:20:48.203
Adam: Saxophonist.

01:20:48.203 –> 01:20:49.583
Joe: Saxophonist.

01:20:49.583 –> 01:20:59.963
Adam: He came in and played kind of all over the track early before, in that stage where it was sort of the jammy verse, and he came in and just sort of played through the whole song.

01:20:59.963 –> 01:21:09.823
Adam: We ended up just kind of choosing a few moments, took a different direction, but he appears here at this like turn, sort of have it labeled as, and then also in the outro.

01:21:09.823 –> 01:21:10.563
Joe: It’s very eerie.

01:21:16.890 –> 01:21:17.810
Joe: Is that amazing?

01:21:17.810 –> 01:21:18.710
Adam: Very expressive.

01:21:18.710 –> 01:21:19.750
Joe: It’s so good.

01:21:19.750 –> 01:21:21.350
Joe: It almost doesn’t even sound like a saxophone.

01:21:21.350 –> 01:21:22.410
John Kennedy: No?

01:21:22.410 –> 01:21:23.470
John Kennedy: I don’t think it does.

01:21:23.470 –> 01:21:30.350
Joe: And then, everything resets again for the second verse, strip it back down.

01:21:30.350 –> 01:21:33.870
Adam: And then with each build in the song, we kind of like, it gets more and more intense.

01:21:33.870 –> 01:21:35.750
Adam: There’s three builds.

01:21:35.810 –> 01:21:41.490
Joe: The key part of this one is our friend Wes, who played drums on this song, did this.

01:21:41.490 –> 01:21:45.230
Joe: We both did, me and him both did like a scream track, which I had never done.

01:21:45.350 –> 01:21:49.850
Joe: I listened to like Phoebe Bridgers’ most recent album, I think, and she does that great scream.

01:21:49.850 –> 01:21:53.410
Joe: And so I thought like, what a good way to put some uneasiness in there.

01:21:53.410 –> 01:21:56.150
Joe: And it was extremely difficult to listen to, honestly.

01:21:56.150 –> 01:21:59.670
Joe: It’s just like a friend of Wes’s, but we can ISO those.

01:21:59.730 –> 01:22:01.870
Adam: Yeah, it’s extremely difficult to listen to.

01:22:01.870 –> 01:22:04.510
Adam: It is, but it’s kind of great.

01:22:04.610 –> 01:22:10.030
Joe: I think it’s pretty unhinged in a great way though.

01:22:18.200 –> 01:22:19.620
Joe: And then mixed in with everything, it’s…

01:22:25.844 –> 01:22:26.924
Adam: Yeah.

01:22:26.924 –> 01:22:27.884
John Kennedy: Yeah, I think you’re gonna be saying, fuck.

01:22:31.624 –> 01:22:33.304
Adam: I didn’t know there was an end.

01:22:34.724 –> 01:22:36.284
John Kennedy: Can we hear it in context then?

01:22:36.284 –> 01:22:36.904
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:22:36.904 –> 01:22:43.104
Adam: I think we did this with the room mics in the live room, and he was running through the room, so you can hear it get louder, so he’s actually, yeah.

01:22:45.504 –> 01:22:46.084
Adam: It’s kinda buried.

01:22:58.664 –> 01:22:58.844
Joe: Wow.

01:22:59.044 –> 01:23:00.824
Adam: And we did a door slam here.

01:23:04.944 –> 01:23:09.144
Joe: Adam is after, I feel like, generally, things being kind of out of phase.

01:23:09.504 –> 01:23:19.184
Joe: This, you’ve done it a couple of times, and it’s left people kind of puzzled, is when you have these things that are kind of in a phase or out of phase, it sounds like it’s sort of like, actually, is behind your head.

01:23:19.184 –> 01:23:24.624
Joe: And so there’s like a key drop and then a door slam, just another thing to kind of, like…

01:23:24.624 –> 01:23:26.424
Adam: We had that binaural head.

01:23:26.424 –> 01:23:28.804
Joe: Yeah, that’s a good thing to talk about.

01:23:28.804 –> 01:23:30.484
Joe: This thing called Vivian, or was it?

01:23:30.484 –> 01:23:31.224
Joe: No, Virginia.

01:23:31.224 –> 01:23:31.704
Adam: Virginia.

01:23:31.704 –> 01:23:43.664
Joe: It’s Roger, the Tech-Ed electric lady, has this binaural head, so it’s a microphone that, it’s like a model head with two microphones in the ears, and it really gives like a sense of space.

01:23:43.664 –> 01:23:45.444
Adam: Some of these were recorded with…

01:23:46.464 –> 01:23:50.284
Adam: So in headphones, we’re all in the headphones here, it sounds very true to life.

01:23:50.284 –> 01:23:52.564
Joe: Sort of half mix and true to life, yeah.

01:23:52.564 –> 01:23:54.644
Adam: Use that quite a lot on this one.

01:23:54.644 –> 01:24:25.604
Joe: Something for this section specifically that I think really, we were, wanted these section, wanted this section to really hit these hits, and kind of later in the process, we were using guitar, trying to go big, and what we ended up really doing is actually making it kind of small and lonely and cavernous, and I feel like a good example of kind of doing the opposite of something, and having a much more powerful effect, because it feels a little bit more lonely rather than it being like angry.

01:24:25.604 –> 01:24:42.344
Adam: Yeah, we tried all these different like, let’s put a huge synth on this spot, you know, look at these hits, and it just never felt right until we did like a pretty clean Twin Peaks show, kind of sounding strat, I think it was.

01:24:42.344 –> 01:24:43.124
Joe: Yeah.

01:24:43.124 –> 01:24:45.004
Adam: With a bunch of reverb on it.

01:24:45.004 –> 01:24:46.884
Joe: Yeah, what’s the process of this?

01:24:46.884 –> 01:24:50.324
Joe: Because I know we also manipulated the pitch.

01:24:50.484 –> 01:24:54.164
Adam: The EQ, compression.

01:24:54.164 –> 01:24:55.444
Joe: That, like we dropped that.

01:24:55.444 –> 01:24:58.484
Adam: Yeah, that’s, I think, just tuned down.

01:24:58.484 –> 01:25:00.804
Joe: We basically covered now the baritone guitar.

01:25:00.984 –> 01:25:02.444
Joe: Here’s the verb.

01:25:04.324 –> 01:25:06.344
Adam: Verb does a lot there.

01:25:06.464 –> 01:25:09.224
John Kennedy: Is that you, Joe, playing all those parts?

01:25:09.844 –> 01:25:13.344
John Kennedy: You’ve got this idea, you just turn to the instrument and give it a go.

01:25:13.344 –> 01:25:14.644
Adam: Yeah.

01:25:14.644 –> 01:25:16.064
John Kennedy: Yeah, very interesting.

01:25:16.064 –> 01:25:21.524
John Kennedy: Because there just seem to be so many different reference points in this song, but also across the album.

01:25:21.524 –> 01:25:26.304
John Kennedy: So many layers, be it different bands, different musicians, but also so many different things.

01:25:26.304 –> 01:25:32.164
John Kennedy: You mentioned Twin Peaks, but film soundtrack, TV soundtrack references all the time.

01:25:32.164 –> 01:25:33.744
John Kennedy: It’s really, really interesting.

01:25:33.744 –> 01:25:34.244
Joe: For sure.

01:25:34.244 –> 01:25:35.724
Joe: I think that’s a big way that we work.

01:25:37.104 –> 01:25:42.144
Joe: Like, yeah, I can’t explain it other than just like, that’s kind of a reference.

01:25:42.144 –> 01:25:49.144
John Kennedy: Do you think, is the sound of what you do, is it informed by being a trained actor?

01:25:49.144 –> 01:25:52.944
John Kennedy: No, because you’ve talked about costume and the costume of a song.

01:25:53.184 –> 01:25:55.324
John Kennedy: And you’ve talked about era as well.

01:25:55.324 –> 01:26:04.204
John Kennedy: And that could be both a musical era or the setting of the song or the place that there’ll be the characters or whoever is in the song.

01:26:04.284 –> 01:26:12.184
John Kennedy: And it’s quite interesting about, I don’t hear that disgust, the costume of a song or that perspective.

01:26:12.184 –> 01:26:18.004
John Kennedy: Whereas maybe if you were trained as an actor, you’re thinking, all right, what kind of shoes would this character wear?

01:26:18.004 –> 01:26:19.404
Joe: Maybe, yeah, that’s a good point.

01:26:19.404 –> 01:26:23.724
Joe: I don’t know if it’s not something I’m choosing to do necessarily, but I think it’s really…

01:26:23.724 –> 01:26:26.924
Joe: I’m always thinking of, like, what are we trying to evoke, I guess?

01:26:26.924 –> 01:26:41.924
Joe: And what are the tools that we have at hand that could, like, yeah, it’s basically we’re the sieve and we’re trying to, like, have this stuff pass through us, kind of like direct people’s focus somewhere or something like that.

01:26:42.324 –> 01:26:45.364
Joe: Again, it’s not something that I’m trying to do, but maybe it is a part of the process.

01:26:45.364 –> 01:26:52.164
Adam: I feel like I’ve always picked up on that with your vocal performances especially, because you’re kind of, like, taking on whatever the meaning of the song is.

01:26:52.164 –> 01:26:52.624
Adam: Yeah.

01:26:52.624 –> 01:26:56.404
Adam: And you’ve described to me before, like, one of the big challenges for you singing live.

01:26:56.404 –> 01:26:57.704
Adam: Sorry if I’m paraphrasing.

01:26:57.704 –> 01:26:58.244
Adam: No, please.

01:26:58.244 –> 01:27:06.544
Adam: But, like, you know, clicking into different, these characters of, like, vocal performance, it’s a challenge live to, like, kind of go back to where you were.

01:27:06.544 –> 01:27:07.424
Adam: Yes.

01:27:07.424 –> 01:27:10.744
Adam: You know, get into that persona for that song.

01:27:10.764 –> 01:27:11.204
Joe: For sure.

01:27:11.204 –> 01:27:20.244
Joe: Like, Back on You is kind of this sort of, like, you know, Phil Lynet sort of, like, classic glam kind of thing.

01:27:20.244 –> 01:27:22.924
Joe: And to, like, kind of put yourself back there.

01:27:22.924 –> 01:27:27.424
Joe: But then also for, you know, this song, it’s like a much, it’s a way different place.

01:27:27.424 –> 01:27:30.464
Joe: And you’re singing about, yeah, it’s kind of a different thing.

01:27:30.464 –> 01:27:33.284
Joe: I guess, I don’t know, the human experience is so varied.

01:27:33.284 –> 01:27:39.144
Joe: It’s like, why limit yourself when you’re making music to like this one, the band is not just this one thing.

01:27:39.144 –> 01:27:49.384
Joe: We’re using it as this big thing to kind of, you know, search through a bunch of different things that we’re feeling or ways that we want to express ourselves.

01:27:49.384 –> 01:27:51.704
Joe: And why limit the band to try to just be one thing?

01:27:51.704 –> 01:27:54.984
Joe: Why not, you know, we live in an age where you can kind of do anything.

01:27:54.984 –> 01:27:57.764
Joe: So why not try to do a bit of everything, maybe.

01:27:57.764 –> 01:27:58.524
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

01:27:58.524 –> 01:28:01.304
John Kennedy: But music’s such an important part of your life, Joe.

01:28:01.304 –> 01:28:05.284
John Kennedy: That this whole acting thing, the two have been going in tandem, really.

01:28:05.944 –> 01:28:16.824
John Kennedy: Because, I mean, when I was just reading about you, it seemed that, yeah, you’ve finished your acting degree, whatever it was, but then Post Animal took off and you just put all your energy into that, really.

01:28:17.464 –> 01:28:24.504
John Kennedy: Which is kind of interesting because you think, you know, for a lot of people, you do the course, you do the training, it’s like, right, I’ve got to concentrate now on this.

01:28:24.504 –> 01:28:25.684
Joe: Well, they weren’t really hand in hand.

01:28:25.684 –> 01:28:33.464
Joe: It was like I was making, I was waiting tables and then doing commercials and doing bit parts on shows, but also playing in a band and getting my like, lot.

01:28:33.804 –> 01:28:40.544
Joe: I mean, it usually comes out of I didn’t have a theater job.

01:28:40.544 –> 01:28:50.164
Joe: If I had had a theater job, maybe I wouldn’t have turned to the music stuff, and if I had been on Stranger Things, maybe I wouldn’t have made like a solo thing because I would have been playing with the band.

01:28:50.164 –> 01:28:53.364
Joe: So it’s generally out of just like a necessity thing.

01:28:53.364 –> 01:28:58.944
Joe: And I just love to make new stuff, I guess.

01:28:58.944 –> 01:29:04.404
Joe: And even while we’re playing these shows, we’re both itching to get back and record another thing.

01:29:05.004 –> 01:29:06.764
Joe: It’s fun to create new stuff.

01:29:06.764 –> 01:29:12.444
Joe: So that’s the whole fun of it, is to get into the studio and just create a bunch of stuff.

01:29:12.444 –> 01:29:13.284
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s brilliant.

01:29:13.284 –> 01:29:15.224
John Kennedy: I love the way that you’ve been able to juggle it.

01:29:15.224 –> 01:29:20.604
John Kennedy: And obviously when you get a right-hand man like Adam, then he gets to realize it so well.

01:29:20.604 –> 01:29:26.904
Joe: Yeah, I feel like our partnership has been one that it’s like a kismet thing that just happens in life.

01:29:26.904 –> 01:29:29.004
Joe: So he’s stuck with me.

01:29:29.564 –> 01:29:31.564
John Kennedy: My question.

01:29:31.564 –> 01:29:35.164
John Kennedy: Should we quickly wrap up maybe with a final section of Egg?

01:29:35.164 –> 01:29:35.884
Joe: Yeah, sure.

01:29:35.884 –> 01:29:37.104
Joe: What do we got at the end?

01:29:37.104 –> 01:29:41.004
Joe: This was a nice, like kind of maybe the chorus or I don’t know, the last chorus.

01:29:41.004 –> 01:29:44.024
Joe: That vocal take was one that I’m pretty proud of.

01:29:46.064 –> 01:29:47.084
Adam: More gang vocals.

01:29:47.084 –> 01:29:49.204
Joe: More gang, Austin Christie.

01:29:49.204 –> 01:29:49.404
Adam: Austin.

01:29:53.064 –> 01:29:53.864
Joe: Yeah, big raking.

01:29:53.864 –> 01:29:54.644
Joe: Yeah, big raking.

01:30:00.170 –> 01:30:05.070
Adam: That’s the most maximal production on the album, probably.

01:30:05.070 –> 01:30:09.170
Joe: And then really the last moment of this, I love too.

01:30:09.170 –> 01:30:13.910
Joe: Hats off to John Rooney because recorded a lot of acoustic guitars at the end here.

01:30:15.330 –> 01:30:20.230
Joe: My favorite thing is the contrast between the last note and then the silence that you hear.

01:30:20.230 –> 01:30:24.610
Joe: You kind of hear the room sound, the guitars ringing at the end here, which I really like.

01:30:24.610 –> 01:30:25.410
Adam: Sex comes back.

01:30:34.969 –> 01:30:36.489
Joe: See that little harmonic going.

01:30:36.489 –> 01:30:37.689
Adam: Yeah, John caught that.

01:30:37.689 –> 01:30:42.089
Adam: He was like, oh, there’s a little tiny, perfectly in tune guitar harmonic at the end.

01:30:42.089 –> 01:30:43.129
Adam: I don’t remember which track it’s on.

01:30:43.129 –> 01:30:44.709
Joe: He’s playing all those guitar.

01:30:48.669 –> 01:30:49.849
Adam: I’m quietly on the radio.

01:30:49.849 –> 01:30:50.709
Joe: Yeah, I got the wrong side.

01:30:50.709 –> 01:30:51.529
Joe: My headphones are swapped.

01:30:51.529 –> 01:30:51.849
John Kennedy: Oops.

01:30:51.849 –> 01:30:53.069
Joe: Classic.

01:30:53.069 –> 01:30:53.809
Adam: But yeah.

01:30:53.809 –> 01:30:55.769
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

01:30:55.769 –> 01:31:02.969
John Kennedy: We’re conscious of time, but we do have some questions that we ask everybody who comes on Tape Notes, and also some questions from our patrons via Patreon.

01:31:04.089 –> 01:31:08.369
John Kennedy: Here’s one from Bryce who says, You have a very unique brand image and artist sound.

01:31:08.369 –> 01:31:14.469
John Kennedy: How did you develop that sound and what’s your tip for other artists looking for their sound?

01:31:14.469 –> 01:31:19.149
Joe: It’s just not a, I wouldn’t say any of the music stuff.

01:31:19.149 –> 01:31:20.929
Joe: There’s like a, we should make this sound.

01:31:20.929 –> 01:31:32.909
Joe: I think it’s just like trying to get creative and follow your instincts about what is interesting to you, and trying to block out the sound of what everyone else is doing as much as possible, I guess.

01:31:32.909 –> 01:31:44.749
Joe: Just like, even if you are influenced by other people, just following your own instincts and like stuff that you think is, it sounds kind of cheesy, but stuff that you are interested by because, yeah, I guess.

01:31:44.749 –> 01:31:46.429
Adam: Trust your own taste.

01:31:46.429 –> 01:31:47.269
Adam: Yeah.

01:31:47.269 –> 01:31:58.989
Adam: Like I said earlier, your taste is great, and that’s just trusting yourself to make bold decisions and, yeah, make the music that comes naturally to you.

01:31:58.989 –> 01:32:01.169
Adam: Don’t try to fight what you sound like, I feel like.

01:32:01.869 –> 01:32:09.249
John Kennedy: It sounds like you’ve got a broad spectrum of inspirations and influences and that you listen to a hell of a lot of stuff.

01:32:09.249 –> 01:32:11.109
Joe: And just being curious about it, I guess.

01:32:11.109 –> 01:32:11.709
Joe: Yeah, being curious.

01:32:11.709 –> 01:32:13.029
Joe: How did they get that sound?

01:32:13.029 –> 01:32:15.149
John Kennedy: Which kind of links into what Hannah’s got to say.

01:32:15.149 –> 01:32:23.549
John Kennedy: So she is intrigued by how much, if anything, did you learn or lean into the help of Kyle Dixon and Michael Stein when developing your sounds?

01:32:23.549 –> 01:32:26.169
John Kennedy: So they worked on the Stranger Things soundtrack.

01:32:26.169 –> 01:32:48.569
Joe: Man, you know, I can’t say that necessarily I’m thinking about the Stranger Things soundtrack when I’m making this stuff, but it definitely has added an influence on me being a part of the show, but kind of could argue that they just had a big influence on the resurgence of just like synthesizer music from the 80s that became prevalent in music in like the mid 2010s.

01:32:49.729 –> 01:32:51.689
Joe: And they’re just great musicians in their own right.

01:32:51.829 –> 01:32:56.769
Joe: So I think more than me, they just kind of had like a sort of more of a global and broader.

01:32:56.769 –> 01:32:57.449
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:32:57.449 –> 01:32:58.189
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:32:58.189 –> 01:33:02.829
John Kennedy: Stormy asks, do you prefer working analog in the box or hybrid?

01:33:02.829 –> 01:33:07.749
John Kennedy: So we’ve just kind of just come up a bit during our conversation.

01:33:07.749 –> 01:33:08.649
John Kennedy: Is there a preference?

01:33:08.649 –> 01:33:10.189
John Kennedy: It sounds like you’re chopping and changing.

01:33:10.189 –> 01:33:17.209
Adam: I feel like analog on the front end and being able to tweak to your heart’s content in digital is a good combination of things.

01:33:17.209 –> 01:33:18.969
Joe: Yeah, that we found our kind of sweet spot.

01:33:19.089 –> 01:33:23.049
Joe: But I do think in the future, like we said, the process informed this.

01:33:23.049 –> 01:33:24.909
Joe: So I think we’re both thinking like process forward.

01:33:24.909 –> 01:33:28.189
Joe: How are we going to kind of, what are we going to do that’s going to be different next time?

01:33:28.189 –> 01:33:30.589
John Kennedy: Yeah, so the process is kind of key.

01:33:30.589 –> 01:33:38.149
John Kennedy: We had one from Nate who was asking about that, but also whether there was a go-to instrument that you always turn to.

01:33:38.149 –> 01:33:41.149
John Kennedy: But it sounds like there isn’t necessarily, it could be piano, could be guitar.

01:33:41.149 –> 01:33:48.069
Joe: I think on this, this was a pretty acoustic guitar driven process, but kind of turned towards piano, towards the end.

01:33:48.069 –> 01:34:03.009
Joe: And I think those are two really great things to write on, and different than the other two records, which was kind of like electric guitar the first time, and then sort of really using with the computer and more digital synths or, you know, something like that.

01:34:03.009 –> 01:34:09.069
John Kennedy: Yeah, I guess after those three different experiences, have you made a decision or is it just finding-

01:34:09.089 –> 01:34:10.509
John Kennedy: It’s time for the Tube album.

01:34:10.589 –> 01:34:12.889
John Kennedy: It’s time for the Tube album, maybe.

01:34:12.889 –> 01:34:14.269
Joe: I don’t know, we’ll see.

01:34:15.129 –> 01:34:20.129
Joe: I think it’ll really just present itself and something will be interesting, and I think as long as…

01:34:20.129 –> 01:34:23.969
Joe: We’ll probably just be curious about different instruments and different things, and we’ll see.

01:34:23.969 –> 01:34:24.429
Joe: Who knows?

01:34:24.429 –> 01:34:28.989
Joe: Maybe it’ll be a place also that informs it, or a time of day.

01:34:28.989 –> 01:34:30.089
Adam: I don’t know.

01:34:30.969 –> 01:34:43.589
John Kennedy: So we ask everybody who comes on Tape Notes about whether they have a favorite piece of tech or equipment that they always use or that they’re particularly excited about, say, for this project, a go-to.

01:34:43.589 –> 01:34:44.489
Adam: Wow.

01:34:44.489 –> 01:34:50.889
Adam: I mean, for this, I really fell in love with that Lexicon 224 hardware reverb unit.

01:34:50.889 –> 01:34:53.669
Adam: I don’t know why that sounds so good, honestly.

01:34:53.669 –> 01:34:58.809
Adam: It could be just the chain-ed electric lady, and I’ve been kind of scouring prices on it.

01:34:58.809 –> 01:35:02.749
Adam: It’s just an expensive CZ kit for like, you know.

01:35:02.749 –> 01:35:05.809
Adam: But yeah, I wish I could capture that.

01:35:05.809 –> 01:35:11.189
Adam: There is a 224 plugin, I think, that UA makes, but it doesn’t sound the same to me.

01:35:11.189 –> 01:35:16.829
Adam: I know that’s a stereotypical thing to say, but that for me was like a big discovery on this album.

01:35:16.829 –> 01:35:18.849
Adam: We ended up using it quite a lot.

01:35:18.849 –> 01:35:19.889
Adam: Anything for you?

01:35:19.889 –> 01:35:20.649
Joe: Man, I don’t know.

01:35:21.489 –> 01:35:25.569
Joe: There’s not one thing in particular, I guess, that I could think of.

01:35:26.729 –> 01:35:29.109
Joe: Yeah, if anything, it would be maybe just like this acoustic guitar that I got.

01:35:29.109 –> 01:35:31.129
Adam: You’ve been kind of on an acoustic guitar search.

01:35:31.129 –> 01:35:35.809
Joe: Yeah, just like hunt for the different colors of an acoustic guitar.

01:35:35.809 –> 01:35:39.549
Joe: I played this really great, I think it’s called the Guild Starfire a lot on this record.

01:35:39.549 –> 01:35:43.269
Joe: That was from my friend Chris over at Chicago Music Exchange.

01:35:43.269 –> 01:35:44.129
Joe: Great instrument.

01:35:44.129 –> 01:35:47.749
Joe: I also got this amazing J45 that we played a lot on this record.

01:35:47.749 –> 01:35:48.029
Adam: Yeah.

01:35:48.029 –> 01:35:50.409
Adam: Oh, your Magniton amp also has been?

01:35:50.409 –> 01:35:54.109
Joe: Yeah, that’s been great for the live, and I’m pretty excited to get back and Use it in the studio now?

01:35:54.989 –> 01:35:57.169
Joe: Yeah, use that.

01:35:57.169 –> 01:36:03.489
Joe: I guess also just like recording with like an AC-30 and a Les Paul on this record, just kind of standard affair for a lot of people.

01:36:03.489 –> 01:36:10.409
Joe: But for me, just like getting some nice, pure, just tube driven guitar.

01:36:10.409 –> 01:36:11.149
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:36:11.149 –> 01:36:15.349
John Kennedy: The other question we ask everybody to participate in is about advice.

01:36:15.349 –> 01:36:22.509
John Kennedy: Whether you’ve picked up any advice along the way or through learned experience, have advice for people that you would want to share.

01:36:23.129 –> 01:36:30.129
John Kennedy: It could be with relation to being creative, relation to coping with the worlds that you’re in.

01:36:30.129 –> 01:36:42.169
Joe: I feel like something that I do, I feel like in my work and then you try to use in your life, is what would be the worst idea right now?

01:36:42.169 –> 01:36:45.189
Joe: What would be the most horrible thing to do?

01:36:46.809 –> 01:36:51.569
Joe: I think in music, it can be very helpful because sometimes it just really frees you up.

01:36:53.729 –> 01:36:59.189
Joe: And sometimes it is the best idea, or sometimes it’s the idea that nobody else would choose.

01:36:59.189 –> 01:37:02.569
Joe: And it can lead you down this little path.

01:37:02.569 –> 01:37:07.489
Joe: Like this screaming idea in this track, it’s like, why would we do that?

01:37:08.489 –> 01:37:11.049
Joe: Why would there be any value in someone just screaming?

01:37:11.049 –> 01:37:18.649
Joe: But then when you blend it in, it’s like, so I feel like I turn to that a lot of the time, like what’s the opposite choice of what would be the right thing to do?

01:37:18.649 –> 01:37:20.089
Joe: Like what would be the wrong thing to do?

01:37:20.249 –> 01:37:22.249
Joe: And then maybe that will lead somewhere.

01:37:22.249 –> 01:37:24.129
Adam: Interesting.

01:37:24.129 –> 01:37:29.169
Adam: I’ve had people reach out over the years asking me like how to get started, like young people.

01:37:29.169 –> 01:37:31.649
Adam: And I’m thinking about it a lot over time.

01:37:31.649 –> 01:37:35.069
Adam: I’ve kind of come down to like, music is really best.

01:37:35.469 –> 01:37:38.909
Adam: It’s not, in my opinion, something that should be done isolated.

01:37:38.909 –> 01:37:57.549
Adam: Like that was something I feel like, you know, I would just encourage people to find their community of people to make music with and just build with them rather than, you know, kind of looking at like why, why am I not a big artist or why am I not a big engineer or producer?

01:37:58.609 –> 01:38:08.229
Adam: And you’re so isolated, I’d say, just like finding people that live where you live or nearby or on the Internet, you know, we’ve done so much collaboration over the Internet.

01:38:08.229 –> 01:38:12.569
Adam: Just find people you connect with and stick with it, connect with them and build it.

01:38:12.569 –> 01:38:18.089
Adam: Like so many of the people we’re on tour with, we’ve known for a decade plus, you know.

01:38:18.089 –> 01:38:25.049
Adam: So don’t be afraid to, or not afraid, but just build with the people that you have in your life already.

01:38:25.049 –> 01:38:26.389
Adam: Yeah, keep going.

01:38:26.389 –> 01:38:26.909
John Kennedy: Brilliant.

01:38:26.909 –> 01:38:28.109
John Kennedy: Thank you so much for your time.

01:38:28.109 –> 01:38:28.489
Adam: Thank you.

01:38:28.489 –> 01:38:28.969
Adam: Thank you.

01:38:29.409 –> 01:38:31.209
John Kennedy: It’s been brilliant to have you here.

01:38:31.209 –> 01:38:33.569
John Kennedy: We have one more choice to make.

01:38:33.569 –> 01:38:35.789
John Kennedy: What should we play out as our outro music?

01:38:35.789 –> 01:38:38.469
John Kennedy: Another selection from The Crux.

01:38:38.469 –> 01:38:38.989
Joe: Let’s play Fly.

01:38:40.449 –> 01:38:40.909
John Kennedy: Okay.

01:38:40.909 –> 01:38:43.449
John Kennedy: Any particular reason for Fly?

01:38:43.449 –> 01:38:45.389
John Kennedy: I just like it.

01:38:45.389 –> 01:38:47.829
Joe: My friend Courtney said, you should put this one on the record.

01:38:47.829 –> 01:38:49.169
Joe: And thanks to Courtney, it’s on the record.

01:38:49.169 –> 01:38:51.129
Joe: So thanks Courtney.

01:38:51.129 –> 01:38:51.469
John Kennedy: Brilliant.

01:38:51.469 –> 01:38:53.029
John Kennedy: Joe, Adam, thanks again.

01:38:53.029 –> 01:38:53.389
Adam: Thank you, John.

01:38:53.389 –> 01:38:56.669
John Kennedy: And this is Fly by Joe from The Crux.

01:39:08.914 –> 01:39:14.214
John Kennedy: Thank you for listening, and in particular, thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on Patreon.

01:39:14.214 –> 01:39:18.714
John Kennedy: I’m just one part of the team that brings you Tape Notes, and it relies on your support.

01:39:18.714 –> 01:39:26.694
John Kennedy: Access to Patreon includes the full-length videos of new episodes where possible, ad-free episodes and detailed gear lists among many other things.

01:39:26.694 –> 01:39:30.514
John Kennedy: If you’d like to join, head to the link on our socials or website.

01:39:30.514 –> 01:39:35.294
John Kennedy: For pictures, highlight clips and behind-the-scenes content, head to our Instagram or YouTube channel.

01:39:35.694 –> 01:39:39.194
John Kennedy: And on Discord, you can join the growing Tape Notes community.

01:39:39.194 –> 01:39:40.734
John Kennedy: Once again, thank you for listening.

01:39:40.734 –> 01:39:42.034
John Kennedy: Until next time, goodbye.