Full Transcript:

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John Kennedy: Hello, welcome to Tape Notes.

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John Kennedy: This week, we have another very exciting new episode for you with the brilliant Jamie XX talking about his 2024 album In Waves.

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John Kennedy: Much requested by Tape Notes listeners, this lived up to all expectation and really was very special, not least because we got to record it at Jamie’s studio in Soho, eight floors up with the London skyline spreading out before us.

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John Kennedy: Of course, being in a pretty much glass room like a greenhouse, eight floors up on a very sunny day, it was going to get hot.

00:00:28.380 –> 00:00:31.460
John Kennedy: And unfortunately, that day the air con was broken.

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John Kennedy: So we had to have the windows open a bit, which means that you can hear quite a lot of central London atmosphere in the background.

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John Kennedy: Everything from planes and helicopters drilling and random shouts from the street can all be heard.

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John Kennedy: But hopefully it just adds to the ambiance of the whole thing, giving you a sense of the location of where Jamie created in Waves.

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John Kennedy: To see the studio for yourself and watch the full conversation, head to the Tape Notes Patreon page, patreon.com/tapenotes to check that out, as well as access to the full video episodes, which often include additional material from the conversations and screen recording of each guest door.

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John Kennedy: Becoming a patron also gives you access to all sorts of other content, episode previews, behind the scenes photos, gear lists.

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John Kennedy: And as you’ll often hear in the episodes, the opportunity to ask questions to upcoming guests.

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John Kennedy: If you’re already a Tape Notes patron, thank you for your support of the show.

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John Kennedy: Thank you also to our partners at Tape It, the iPhone Recording App for Musicians, more on them and their brand new layering feature later in the show.

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John Kennedy: But if you’d like to try it out now, then head to tape.it forward slash tape notes, search Tape It on the App Store or click the link in the show notes.

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John Kennedy: But now, without further ado, let’s get started.

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John Kennedy: Hello and welcome to Tape Notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

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John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

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John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tape Notes is JamieXX to talk about how he wrote, recorded and produced the album, In Waves.

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John Kennedy: James Smith, better known as JamieXX, is an English musician, record producer and DJ.

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John Kennedy: Jamie’s journey into music began as a member of the XX, formed in 2005 alongside Romy Croft and Oliver Sim when they were 15 years old.

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John Kennedy: The group’s debut album, XX, released in 2009, reached number one on the UK albums chart, achieved Platinum certification and won the Mercury Prize in 2010.

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John Kennedy: Alongside the band, Jamie began to take on solo work, including remixing Gil Scott Heron’s I Knew Here album, released as We’re New Here in 2011.

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John Kennedy: His debut solo album, In Colour, came out in 2015 and was much acclaimed.

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John Kennedy: The record topped the UK albums chart and earned Grammy and Mercury Prize nominations, showcasing his ability to balance energy and atmospheres with dance music’s emotional and physical pull.

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John Kennedy: In 2024, Jamie released his highly anticipated second solo album, In Waves, a collection of tracks which capture the emotional highs and hazy afterglow of a night out, blending bliss, heartbreak and introspection.

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John Kennedy: Today, I joined Jamie at his Soho studio.

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John Kennedy: It was a hot day, so he had to have the windows open, so you might catch some Central London sounds in the background of our chat.

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John Kennedy: But what better way to start than by hearing something from In Waves.

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John Kennedy: This is Wonna.

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John Kennedy: It is Wanna by Jamie XX, the opening track to the In Waves album.

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John Kennedy: And I’m very pleased to say that I have sat in front of Jamie XX.

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John Kennedy: Now, hello Jamie, how are you doing?

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Jamie: I’m good.

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John Kennedy: It’s great to be here.

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John Kennedy: So thanks very much.

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John Kennedy: You’ve invited us into your studio, which has an amazing location.

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John Kennedy: So we’re in Soho, we’re eight floors up.

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John Kennedy: We have an incredible view around us that we can see the rooftops of London spread out.

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John Kennedy: In the distance, we can see the London Eye and Westminster.

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John Kennedy: And I’m wondering, is this where you made In Waves?

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Jamie: I made a lot of it in here, yeah.

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Jamie: Quite a bit of it kind of just on various planes and tour buses, but a bulk of it here and in my home in Hackney as well.

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John Kennedy: Right.

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John Kennedy: Because it’s interesting listening to one and feeling quite blissful, really.

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John Kennedy: Sat eight floors up with an amazing view outside, getting lost in the music.

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John Kennedy: It’s a wonderful thing.

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John Kennedy: It seems quite a nice location to be.

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Jamie: Yeah, it’s great.

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Jamie: I mean, in Soho, obviously you can walk out the door anytime of day, and it’s vibey, and there’s something to inspire you.

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Jamie: Plus this view.

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Jamie: I spent so long just being in dark basements in London, not knowing what time it was, and it just gets pretty grim.

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Jamie: So when I could, I found this place, and I always had dreamed of having a place with a view of London, whether it be where I live or my studio.

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Jamie: And I’d always dreamed of living in Soho at some point.

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Jamie: So this is actually the best of both, because I think living in Soho would be a bit too mad.

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Jamie: But if I just come here for work, it’s perfect.

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John Kennedy: Fantastic.

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John Kennedy: So when did In Waves begin?

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Jamie: Well, I kind of always had ideas after I finished In Colour, which was now 10 years ago.

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Jamie: And I’d come home off tour and try and make stuff.

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Jamie: And it just never, I think I was probably just too tired, to be honest, from all the touring.

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Jamie: And it never clicked until COVID happened.

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Jamie: And then I had all this time suddenly at home for the first time ever since I was a teenager.

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Jamie: And it took a couple of weeks of just sort of procrastinating.

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Jamie: And then I really wanted to just start making music because it was fun, because it felt like I used to feel when I was making music as a kid.

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Jamie: And then In Waves started happening.

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Jamie: And some of the things I’m gonna play today are those first projects that kind of got the momentum of going to finally be able to finish the second album.

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John Kennedy: Excellent.

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John Kennedy: Well, you’re gonna dig deep.

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John Kennedy: We’re gonna look at three tracks from In Waves.

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John Kennedy: And the first of them we’re going to look at is Breather.

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John Kennedy: So maybe if you could place a blast to the master of Breather, and then we’ll get digging.

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John Kennedy: It is Breather by Jamie XX from In Waves.

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John Kennedy: It’s the first song we’re going to look at.

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John Kennedy: Is this the first song that started the album or the creative process for the album?

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Jamie: I think, I can’t quite remember because that’s all a bit of a haze back then, but it was this alongside Dafodil and a couple of other bits that all started to happen at the same time during COVID.

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John Kennedy: Yeah, I’m sure it changes for each song, but what came first?

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John Kennedy: Is it just a sound that inspires you?

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John Kennedy: Is it a rhythm that you come across or create?

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Jamie: Depends.

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Jamie: Usually, I have an idea about something and it turns out that the realization of the idea is incredibly boring, but the journey that it then go, I go on, if I let it kind of lead me somewhere different, can end up being very good.

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Jamie: But this track is one of the rare moments when I had an idea and it all fell into place exactly as I had hoped.

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Jamie: I mean, the main idea was that I needed a track to take me from 160 BPM to 120 BPM in a DJ set, because it’s easier to get up there and make the energy goes up.

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Jamie: But to bring the energy down is harder and sometimes you lose a crowd a bit.

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Jamie: And I wanted to find a beautiful, elegant way of doing that.

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Jamie: So that main idea behind this track is this just simple synth, that is just one-note drone thing, that is technically 160 BPM.

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Jamie: But if you were to play that, change the tempo but not change that stem to 120, then it syncopates it in a different way.

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Jamie: So currently it’s on the 1, 2, 3, 4, and at 120 it becomes syncopated.

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Jamie: So I wanted to do that and make this transition in the middle, kind of the bit where you can’t tell whether it’s 160 or 120.

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Jamie: And it’s all morphs and there’s parts underneath that are like bits of drums that are going 160 and other bits of drums and synth are going at 120 and they all kind of glide over each other.

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Jamie: So that was the idea behind that.

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John Kennedy: Yeah, a really interesting idea and it’s a song of two halves because of that.

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John Kennedy: And it’s interesting how you wanted something that could be transitional and yet it becomes a thing of its own because of the voice and what the voice is saying as well.

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John Kennedy: It takes on another kind of connotation in a way, which is really interesting.

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John Kennedy: And also in contrast to the other songs on the album, it’s a bit more techno.

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John Kennedy: In terms of the sound palette, it’s slightly darker, a bit more gritty than some of the other more uplifting sounds and colours that you’ve got on there.

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Jamie: Yeah.

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Jamie: That all kind of came just from experimenting, really.

00:11:06.444 –> 00:11:13.504
Jamie: I had this 808 through a guitar distortion pedal.

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John Kennedy: So Jamie’s just flung his thumb towards an 808.

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John Kennedy: So we’re surrounded in this amazing room.

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John Kennedy: It’s like a square box.

00:11:20.884 –> 00:11:33.204
John Kennedy: Two sides are just glass and pointing towards the corner of those two glass walls is a desk, which has a load of different pieces of equipment on it, keyboards and synths and stuff.

00:11:33.244 –> 00:11:39.284
John Kennedy: Then behind Jamie is another table with a whole load of other equipment as well.

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John Kennedy: So you got the 808 state.

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John Kennedy: Sorry, not 808 state.

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John Kennedy: You got the 808 out.

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Jamie: Yeah.

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Jamie: I just got this new distortion pedal, which was not for putting drum machines through it, but I gave it a go and it did this crazy compression thing.

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Jamie: If you just take the mast out of the 808 and put the kick drums up along with the rest of the drums, depending on how loud the kick drum is, it really changes the sound of the drums over the top.

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Jamie: So then that kind of became the basis for the sound of that more techno-y thing.

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Jamie: Let’s be turning up and down the bass level, so sometimes the snare will have a lot more decay when the distortion is basically backed off.

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John Kennedy: Yeah.

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John Kennedy: So that’s the beat you programmed in the 808, but you’re running it through the pedal and it’s going all…

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Jamie: Yeah.

00:12:33.464 –> 00:12:35.204
Jamie: Then it’s just really fun to play around with that.

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Jamie: I did a lot of that endlessly.

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Jamie: At one point, I thought that was going to be a big part of the sound of the album, but it ended up only really being part of this song in the end.

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John Kennedy: Right.

00:12:45.244 –> 00:12:45.464
John Kennedy: Yeah.

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John Kennedy: Because I could see…

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John Kennedy: I mean, my impression whenever I’m doing Tape Notes and hanging out with musicians and, you know, I could really see how you could get lost in a sound like that and that could take over for days on end.

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John Kennedy: And you think, well, this sounds amazing.

00:13:00.124 –> 00:13:02.184
John Kennedy: Why do I need anything else?

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Jamie: Yeah, totally.

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Jamie: And well, what I discovered is actually because of all the distortion, it sounds really great on its own.

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Jamie: But if you’re trying to place it in a mix of a bunch of other stuff, it’s quite hard for it to still give that same oomph.

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Jamie: So either you’d have to make a whole track basically with the 808 and the distortion or very carefully like place it, which is what ended up happening here.

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Jamie: And I layered it with loads of other drums, just like this sort of thing.

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John Kennedy: To kind of tone it down in a way.

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Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

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Jamie: And like just I wanted to make it sort of a schizophrenic as possible.

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Jamie: And I was just listening to like a lot of the music that younger producers were making at the time.

00:13:43.524 –> 00:13:49.644
Jamie: And it was all such fast changes and things happening all the time and like sound design and crazy panning.

00:13:49.644 –> 00:13:52.704
Jamie: And it made me really excited to try something like that.

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John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:13:53.104 –> 00:13:53.724
John Kennedy: Yeah.

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John Kennedy: Are you able to illustrate some of the things that you added then?

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Jamie: So there’s these like, I don’t even remember how I did this.

00:14:01.044 –> 00:14:02.284
Jamie: These are bounced out of something.

00:14:03.404 –> 00:14:07.804
Jamie: Just like little, sort of…

00:14:07.804 –> 00:14:14.664
Jamie: There might have been me on a CDJ scratching back and forth on some snares that were originally programmed in.

00:14:14.664 –> 00:14:18.224
Jamie: And then just like little elements that come in for moments but then drop out.

00:14:24.818 –> 00:14:28.578
Jamie: We’ll do a regular kick to beef it all up.

00:14:32.078 –> 00:14:34.478
John Kennedy: And how do you work with these?

00:14:34.718 –> 00:14:36.838
John Kennedy: Are you recording everything all at once?

00:14:36.838 –> 00:14:39.758
John Kennedy: Are you editing afterwards?

00:14:39.758 –> 00:14:45.418
John Kennedy: Do you have a pass where you’re fiddling with the CDJs and doing this other stuff than listening back in the go?

00:14:45.418 –> 00:14:46.618
John Kennedy: I could drop that out.

00:14:46.618 –> 00:14:50.638
Jamie: It’s usually not planned and different every time.

00:14:50.638 –> 00:14:54.718
Jamie: I’ll just get to a point where I’ve messed with something for long enough.

00:14:54.718 –> 00:15:02.638
Jamie: If it’s not sounding exactly as I want to, then I’ll have an idea about what to do next to bring it up to the next level.

00:15:02.638 –> 00:15:10.238
Jamie: It’s just tweaking, years of tweaking usually, which is why my project is such a mess and so huge.

00:15:10.238 –> 00:15:13.158
Jamie: I don’t know where anything is and nothing’s labeled.

00:15:13.158 –> 00:15:16.438
Jamie: But there’s a method to the madness, I guess.

00:15:16.438 –> 00:15:25.138
John Kennedy: As you develop the song and you had that goal, that there was going to be a transition and you go from 160 to 120, it ends up being six minutes long.

00:15:25.138 –> 00:15:26.818
John Kennedy: The transition is quite long.

00:15:26.818 –> 00:15:30.358
John Kennedy: That’s about a minute or a minute and a half or something.

00:15:30.358 –> 00:15:33.498
John Kennedy: You have this amazing voice as well speaking.

00:15:33.998 –> 00:15:37.278
John Kennedy: When did all those decisions come about?

00:15:37.278 –> 00:16:13.358
Jamie: Well, in lockdown as well, at the same time as making this, one of my best friends who works at Young, the record label, was living upstairs in my house, and he like started us on this routine of doing a yoga YouTube video every morning for our general health and mental health, and I was just listening to this voice, being very calming every morning, and I was also imagining how it could translate into something more less wholesome.

00:16:13.358 –> 00:16:23.958
Jamie: I think could be a reference to many versions of being good to yourself, whether it’s being out on the dance floor or being on a yoga mat.

00:16:23.958 –> 00:16:52.118
Jamie: So it was kind of a bit of a tongue in cheek thing really, and just like me messing around, not overthinking it, but I sampled the YouTube videos that we were doing, this one in particular, and then I used an AI tool to remove all the yoga music behind it, and it kind of came out with this weird artifact underneath the voice that really added to the sound of the track, and I weaved it in the rest of the track.

00:16:52.118 –> 00:16:54.698
Jamie: I’m grateful for this present moment.

00:16:54.698 –> 00:16:55.598
Jamie: But it’s got all these like…

00:16:55.598 –> 00:16:58.018
Jamie: Only moment that truly exists.

00:16:58.018 –> 00:16:58.858
Jamie: Just strange.

00:16:58.858 –> 00:17:00.218
Jamie: Because the past is gone.

00:17:00.278 –> 00:17:01.958
Jamie: Alien things.

00:17:01.958 –> 00:17:03.238
Jamie: The future is uncertain.

00:17:03.238 –> 00:17:06.458
John Kennedy: But have you already treated that voice to create that?

00:17:06.598 –> 00:17:07.878
Jamie: Well, that’s the AI thing.

00:17:07.878 –> 00:17:08.918
Jamie: That’s kind of creating…

00:17:08.918 –> 00:17:13.758
Jamie: It was a very primitive, I think, AI stem separator.

00:17:13.758 –> 00:17:16.138
Jamie: Now they’re really good and they sound much more crisp.

00:17:16.138 –> 00:17:19.678
Jamie: But back then, it left all these really weird like sort of…

00:17:19.678 –> 00:17:21.918
Jamie: Sounds like a very bad MP3 underneath it.

00:17:21.918 –> 00:17:22.658
Jamie: All these artifacts.

00:17:22.658 –> 00:17:29.658
Jamie: And then with reverb and mixing it in, I thought they actually added a really cool element with all the other synthy bits.

00:17:30.178 –> 00:17:32.778
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s almost like a found sound in a way.

00:17:32.778 –> 00:17:39.658
John Kennedy: No, it just happened to be there and inspired you to create some other bits that would match it or work with it.

00:17:39.658 –> 00:17:45.298
John Kennedy: But the actual voice itself, on the original video, does the voice sound human?

00:17:45.298 –> 00:17:47.218
Jamie: It does sound human, yes.

00:17:47.218 –> 00:17:49.278
Jamie: I think I pitched this down.

00:17:50.098 –> 00:17:54.978
Jamie: This is a stem of it that I must have bounced out.

00:17:54.978 –> 00:17:56.738
Jamie: This must be some of the original stuff.

00:17:58.478 –> 00:18:10.698
Jamie: So it’s just this crystallizer thing, which I think a lot of people are using these days, which is just a delay that also pitches the delay down.

00:18:10.698 –> 00:18:13.518
Jamie: And it also has this very widening effect.

00:18:14.898 –> 00:18:18.118
Jamie: So that kind of made it into more of an alien voice as well.

00:18:18.178 –> 00:18:19.678
John Kennedy: Yeah, and it’s perfect.

00:18:19.678 –> 00:18:24.898
John Kennedy: I mean, the statements, the words are really powerful.

00:18:24.898 –> 00:18:26.418
John Kennedy: And also they’re quite hypnotic.

00:18:26.738 –> 00:18:35.618
John Kennedy: And it’s interesting putting them with the beats because they help you transition, as it were, from one tempo to another.

00:18:35.618 –> 00:18:36.758
John Kennedy: I mean, it’s really interesting.

00:18:36.758 –> 00:18:44.698
John Kennedy: Obviously we can’t play the whole thing, but it would be good to kind of just illustrate so how the tempo stops and maybe talk through that section.

00:18:45.978 –> 00:18:46.998
Jamie: Yeah.

00:18:48.518 –> 00:19:04.198
Jamie: So at the end of the fast section, I always wanted it to go from being quite dark and driving into something suddenly beautiful because I love that feeling when I’m playing that sort of switch up, the whole crowd sort of jerks in emotion.

00:19:04.198 –> 00:19:11.978
Jamie: And I used the Oberheim eight voice over there to make these really lovely synths, chords.

00:19:12.478 –> 00:19:23.138
Jamie: It’s like my favorite synth ever because you can tune every oscillator, there’s 16 different oscillators and they all go out of tune all the time.

00:19:23.138 –> 00:19:26.598
Jamie: So by the time you’ve tuned it all, they’re all slightly out of tune.

00:19:26.598 –> 00:19:35.458
Jamie: And then when you try and play these chords, they’re all just a little bit wonky, just the right amount and it ends up sounding something like this.

00:19:36.618 –> 00:19:44.138
Jamie: You can also pan them so the chords are like going from side to side and each note is panned in a slightly different place.

00:19:44.138 –> 00:19:48.018
Jamie: Yeah.

00:19:48.018 –> 00:19:56.058
John Kennedy: So that’s the Oberheim, because it sounds like a combination of strings or a variety of instrumentation.

00:19:56.058 –> 00:19:57.258
Jamie: Yeah.

00:19:57.258 –> 00:20:03.918
Jamie: That’s literally, I think that’s just that synth with some reverb on it, no other effects, it’s just a beautiful sounding thing.

00:20:05.378 –> 00:20:07.978
Jamie: But it does take a long time to program.

00:20:07.978 –> 00:20:08.198
John Kennedy: Right.

00:20:09.878 –> 00:20:15.598
Jamie: But that’s the same synth that I did GOSH with, and it’s just very versatile.

00:20:15.598 –> 00:20:17.418
Jamie: You can kind of do anything, but it takes a while.

00:20:17.418 –> 00:20:18.038
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:20:18.038 –> 00:20:22.498
John Kennedy: And by taking a while, are you saying a day or a few days?

00:20:22.498 –> 00:20:33.358
Jamie: A few days, but also if I get something good, I’ll try and make it sound wise, I’ll try and make as many things with it as possible, because I know the next day if I’ve turned it off and turn on again, it will be totally different.

00:20:33.358 –> 00:20:33.778
John Kennedy: Right.

00:20:33.778 –> 00:20:34.378
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:20:35.238 –> 00:20:44.298
John Kennedy: So you spend a few days kind of programming it and tuning it, getting it right, and then an intense recording session using those sounds that you’ve created.

00:20:44.298 –> 00:20:45.118
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:20:45.118 –> 00:20:47.378
John Kennedy: With this track in mind or just in general?

00:20:48.178 –> 00:20:53.178
Jamie: I think I’d made this, I just played this in and recorded it a while before.

00:20:54.218 –> 00:21:05.018
Jamie: And because this track wasn’t melodic before this point, those chords that I’d played before informed what the key of it would be in basically.

00:21:05.298 –> 00:21:06.298
Jamie: Yeah.

00:21:06.298 –> 00:21:11.318
Jamie: So I had that and then I used this synth.

00:21:11.318 –> 00:21:21.598
Jamie: The Korg Delta that I got in Japan, which is another weird synth where you can set it to a mode that when you take your finger off the note, it plays another note.

00:21:21.598 –> 00:21:27.338
Jamie: And the note that it plays when it comes off is slightly different, especially if you’re holding it in a chord.

00:21:27.338 –> 00:21:30.478
Jamie: I never really understand quite what it’s doing, but it does something beautiful.

00:21:30.478 –> 00:21:33.818
Jamie: And so I had this other synth line underneath.

00:21:40.223 –> 00:21:43.503
Jamie: So that’s like, on, off, on, off.

00:21:43.503 –> 00:21:48.883
Jamie: And it creates these chords every time you press the note or take it off.

00:21:48.883 –> 00:21:54.283
Jamie: Chords that were quite unexpected, that worked very well in tandem with the Oberheim chords.

00:22:06.035 –> 00:22:10.015
Jamie: And it has like a string element to it, as well as a synth element.

00:22:10.015 –> 00:22:13.975
Jamie: So you can have it to sound like all strings, or all synth, or both together.

00:22:13.975 –> 00:22:16.695
Jamie: So that’s also why it feels more stringy.

00:22:16.695 –> 00:22:18.755
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:22:18.755 –> 00:22:26.395
Jamie: So yeah, so that change from 160 to that breakdown bit kind of goes from manic to lush quite quickly.

00:22:56.582 –> 00:22:58.062
John Kennedy: So that’s the Oberheim coming in.

00:23:30.903 –> 00:23:40.583
Jamie: And then I had this, this just Logic bass plug-in, like one of the most basic things.

00:23:40.583 –> 00:23:49.783
Jamie: Keeping the sort of 160-ness of it under that, which then kind of turns into triplets when you start to lose what tempo it is.

00:23:51.663 –> 00:23:54.983
Jamie: And as it goes subby and up top, you kind of lose that as well.

00:23:55.283 –> 00:24:00.883
Jamie: I was always trying to mess with perception of like where, where you’re at in this part.

00:24:00.883 –> 00:24:01.563
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:24:01.563 –> 00:24:01.723
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:24:01.723 –> 00:24:08.463
John Kennedy: Because there are other percussive elements coming in occasionally as well, a bit of hi-hat sound or something like that.

00:24:08.463 –> 00:24:10.443
John Kennedy: So we haven’t lost it completely.

00:24:10.443 –> 00:24:11.763
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:24:11.763 –> 00:24:14.283
John Kennedy: And then how long does that, that passage last?

00:24:15.623 –> 00:24:18.023
Jamie: That’s, yeah, it’s probably about a minute.

00:24:18.023 –> 00:24:28.403
Jamie: And then I’ve tried for ages to make it, the drop into 120 happen in a way that was very obvious, all the tricks that I was doing.

00:24:28.403 –> 00:24:36.363
Jamie: But what worked best was just stopping everything and making like a classic, like moment pause and everything coming in.

00:24:36.363 –> 00:24:37.483
Jamie: So that’s what I ended up doing.

00:24:46.837 –> 00:24:55.157
Jamie: But I really tried so many things where I kept this drone thing going right up until the drop, so everything made a lot more sense mathematically.

00:24:55.537 –> 00:24:59.277
Jamie: But sometimes music works better when it’s not mathematical.

00:24:59.277 –> 00:25:01.617
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:25:01.617 –> 00:25:13.037
Jamie: And then I just built on all those sounds again, but in this new tempo, but without changing the tempo of any of the synths that I played in, so they all syncopated differently to the first half.

00:25:13.037 –> 00:25:13.217
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:25:15.357 –> 00:25:19.397
John Kennedy: And what’s created that beat for this second section?

00:25:19.397 –> 00:25:24.197
Jamie: It’s a lot of the same elements, because I wanted the palette to be the same.

00:25:24.197 –> 00:25:28.657
Jamie: So I just chopped up some of the stuff that I was doing on the 808.

00:25:28.657 –> 00:25:29.277
John Kennedy: Right.

00:25:29.277 –> 00:25:31.237
John Kennedy: And then turned it into 120 rather than…

00:25:31.237 –> 00:25:33.577
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:25:33.577 –> 00:25:44.137
Jamie: But again, without pitching it or speeding it up, because that reduces the quality of it, and maybe just adding some more of these sort of glitchy drum things.

00:25:51.367 –> 00:25:53.127
Jamie: Chopping those up as well.

00:25:54.347 –> 00:25:57.947
Jamie: And then really subtle little hi-hattie things that are also glitching.

00:26:00.047 –> 00:26:02.967
John Kennedy: And to create the glitch effect, what do you do?

00:26:02.967 –> 00:26:07.387
Jamie: Well, this one is, this like, this is not how you’re meant to use it.

00:26:07.387 –> 00:26:16.807
Jamie: I had to record, I used audio hijack to record Logic through my laptop back in, if you know what I mean.

00:26:16.807 –> 00:26:19.687
Jamie: Because I was using a plugin in a way that you’re not meant to use it.

00:26:20.167 –> 00:26:24.227
Jamie: So I’ll just make a new channel for the plugin.

00:26:24.227 –> 00:26:38.367
Jamie: It’s called XO, and it’s just a, it’s like a drum machine, but it’s a really fun way of finding sounds because it’s got this galaxy looking thing of all the drum sounds.

00:26:38.367 –> 00:26:43.607
Jamie: And you can add new ones and it sort of places them next to each other, ones that sound similar to each other.

00:26:43.607 –> 00:26:49.267
Jamie: So you can look for drum sounds by just scrolling through this galaxy like this.

00:26:55.435 –> 00:27:02.735
Jamie: And if you land on the little area that you like, you can scroll around drum sounds that sound similar to each other.

00:27:02.735 –> 00:27:09.575
Jamie: And zoom in to find more, and it’s like, I don’t know, it’s a fun, quick, easy way to find drum sounds.

00:27:09.575 –> 00:27:17.955
Jamie: But then what I did here on this track is record out of Logic of me scrolling around, but to a tempo.

00:27:20.955 –> 00:27:25.935
Jamie: So it’s still got a rhythm, but I’m basically using like thousands of drum sounds for a hi-hat.

00:27:29.855 –> 00:27:35.895
Jamie: But that’s a very quiet little element that’s only in the track for about 15 seconds.

00:27:37.475 –> 00:27:39.535
John Kennedy: But worth it.

00:27:39.535 –> 00:27:40.975
Jamie: Yeah.

00:27:40.975 –> 00:27:46.795
Jamie: And then I just like build on the drum sounds and sort of layer them with various different things.

00:27:50.035 –> 00:27:51.715
Jamie: I don’t even remember what drum machine that’s from.

00:27:51.715 –> 00:27:52.515
Jamie: It’s one of these guys.

00:27:58.312 –> 00:28:14.332
Jamie: But just like, I spend a long time trying to get the groove right for everything, and using sample delay to make the hi-hat or the kick or the snare just in the right position for the groove to be right, rather than everything being perfectly on the grid.

00:28:14.332 –> 00:28:25.652
Jamie: Or I’ll just play stuff in live using MPC or the Isla, so that it has a more live, slightly off-kilter feel rather than everything just being drum machine.

00:28:26.032 –> 00:28:32.292
John Kennedy: Yeah, and so a lot of experimentation really, trying things out, ditching them, trying something else.

00:28:32.292 –> 00:28:36.652
John Kennedy: So over a long period of time, so how long do you think Breather would have taken?

00:28:36.652 –> 00:28:42.392
Jamie: Well, the initial idea took maybe two days, and that bit’s so fun.

00:28:42.392 –> 00:28:54.032
Jamie: But then like the building on the drum world and perfecting all those little elements and just like diving into the minutia of each bar, making sure something new is happening.

00:28:54.752 –> 00:28:57.032
Jamie: That took like four years.

00:28:57.032 –> 00:28:57.592
John Kennedy: Right.

00:28:57.592 –> 00:29:00.672
John Kennedy: And how often would you return to it?

00:29:00.672 –> 00:29:03.392
John Kennedy: No, because you’re doing other stuff as well.

00:29:03.392 –> 00:29:12.432
John Kennedy: So did it become a chore or did it become something that you needed to just remember when you were in the right mood for it?

00:29:12.432 –> 00:29:15.452
Jamie: It became a chore in moments.

00:29:15.452 –> 00:29:21.832
Jamie: But when I was on the road, when the world opened up again after COVID, I was DJing a lot because I was excited to get back out there.

00:29:22.952 –> 00:29:28.992
Jamie: I was testing all these tracks out and every time I’d play them, I could tell a little bit more what I wanted to do next.

00:29:28.992 –> 00:29:41.992
Jamie: So I was diving into it after every gig almost, and just making tiny changes to structure and drum sounds and levels of kicks, so that it would just be slightly more impactful every gig.

00:29:41.992 –> 00:29:45.852
Jamie: That’s how I got to the point where I was ready to mix it.

00:29:45.852 –> 00:29:46.412
John Kennedy: Right.

00:29:46.412 –> 00:29:54.632
John Kennedy: So you were trying this track out in that way, and presumably just in a little section of, you know, to see how they react.

00:29:54.772 –> 00:29:57.412
John Kennedy: And initially the reaction was good.

00:29:57.412 –> 00:29:57.752
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:29:57.752 –> 00:29:58.592
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:29:58.592 –> 00:29:59.112
Jamie: Yeah.

00:29:59.112 –> 00:30:04.892
Jamie: Especially with this one, because I made it basically as a tool to get from 160 to 120.

00:30:04.892 –> 00:30:11.872
Jamie: So I knew I had a place for it, and it worked even in its earlier form, where nothing sounded very good.

00:30:11.872 –> 00:30:17.572
Jamie: It did work as a tool, and so then I just spent a long time perfecting the sound.

00:30:17.832 –> 00:30:20.232
John Kennedy: Yeah, and then when did the voice come in?

00:30:20.232 –> 00:30:22.112
John Kennedy: Was that there all along?

00:30:22.112 –> 00:30:25.692
Jamie: Yeah, it was one of the initial things, because it came from that lockdown period.

00:30:25.692 –> 00:30:36.172
John Kennedy: So that idea of, hey, I could use this, and it almost connected itself to this idea of breather and what it was meant to do.

00:30:36.172 –> 00:30:36.872
Jamie: Totally.

00:30:36.872 –> 00:30:39.192
Jamie: I mean, I had feedback.

00:30:39.192 –> 00:30:49.072
Jamie: You know, I play this to friends and artists and the record label to get feedback, and some people wanted me to take the voice out.

00:30:49.072 –> 00:30:51.392
Jamie: And I really tried, I tried various versions.

00:30:51.392 –> 00:31:00.512
Jamie: I tried playing out without the voice, because I realized that if the voice is taken too seriously, it can become too like saccharine or sincere or something.

00:31:00.512 –> 00:31:01.952
Jamie: I didn’t want that.

00:31:01.952 –> 00:31:10.932
Jamie: But in the end, because it was such a meaningful part of the making of this song, and just the thought process behind the beginning of this song, I had to keep it in and I love it.

00:31:10.932 –> 00:31:11.332
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:31:11.332 –> 00:31:11.572
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:31:11.572 –> 00:31:12.332
John Kennedy: And this kind of relates.

00:31:12.392 –> 00:31:18.392
John Kennedy: So we have a whole load of questions from different people, some of our patrons who’ve got in touch with questions to put to you.

00:31:18.392 –> 00:31:29.932
John Kennedy: And this in a way seems relevant to Reinaldo Herrera’s question, which is, are you more like a mix on the go guy, or do you prefer sending the project to a mixing master engineer because each track sounds amazing?

00:31:29.932 –> 00:31:32.212
John Kennedy: So it sounds like you’re a mix on the go person.

00:31:32.212 –> 00:31:34.332
Jamie: Very much a mix on the go guy.

00:31:34.332 –> 00:31:42.572
Jamie: But my ear is not as good as a mixing engineers, and I’ve worked with a few mixing engineers.

00:31:42.572 –> 00:31:46.912
Jamie: The person I keep going back to now is David Wrench, who’s amazing.

00:31:46.912 –> 00:31:52.592
Jamie: And his studio is right near where I live, and we know each other very well, and he knows exactly what I want.

00:31:52.592 –> 00:31:59.772
Jamie: So I’ll send him as good a mix as I can get, and then he’ll just tweak it so it sounds…

00:31:59.772 –> 00:32:06.552
Jamie: I mean, he’s probably not doing that much, but it makes it sound so much better, much better than I could ever do.

00:32:06.552 –> 00:32:22.092
Jamie: I wish that I could, but I kind of just get too buried in it, or I get too attached to sort of the muddiness of something, because it’s just how I’ve heard it forever and I don’t want to change it, and then he’ll just go in and do something very obvious and harsh, and everything becomes clearer.

00:32:22.092 –> 00:32:26.612
Jamie: And I love that process, because it’s like somebody signing off on something that I’ve spent a lot of time on.

00:32:26.612 –> 00:32:27.592
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:27.592 –> 00:32:28.492
John Kennedy: He’s been on the show.

00:32:28.492 –> 00:32:30.672
John Kennedy: It’s a fascinating man.

00:32:30.672 –> 00:32:45.252
John Kennedy: And I’m interested to know, having played around with Breather or any track for a period of time, trying it out in sets, when you get that mastered version, will you use that then in your sets, or have you already moved on and you’re now experimenting with some other ideas?

00:32:45.512 –> 00:32:47.152
Jamie: I will play the masters.

00:32:47.152 –> 00:32:49.552
Jamie: Yeah, I mean, it’s so satisfying to have those.

00:32:50.732 –> 00:32:54.732
Jamie: And Matt Colton does most of the masters he did in Waves.

00:32:54.732 –> 00:32:56.032
Jamie: And he’s so great as well.

00:32:56.032 –> 00:32:57.872
Jamie: Everything sounds super tough.

00:32:57.872 –> 00:33:04.612
Jamie: That’s always a fun day being in the studio with him, going through everything and just again, elevating it is so satisfying.

00:33:05.272 –> 00:33:22.452
Jamie: But I try to like, when I’m DJing, I try and play the bits that people want to hear, the new stuff and the old stuff, but also constantly doing remixes slash live, mash up bootleg things of old tracks mixed with new tracks and tracks from other people.

00:33:22.452 –> 00:33:24.632
Jamie: So it’s like fresh for me and fresh for other people.

00:33:24.632 –> 00:33:27.012
Jamie: And it’s sort of teasing bits that people know.

00:33:27.012 –> 00:33:30.972
John Kennedy: Yeah, constantly evolving and keeps people excited and interested.

00:33:30.972 –> 00:33:31.892
John Kennedy: What’s he gonna do now?

00:33:31.892 –> 00:33:32.732
Jamie: That’s the plan.

00:33:32.732 –> 00:33:33.132
John Kennedy: Excellent.

00:33:33.132 –> 00:33:34.432
John Kennedy: And we have two more songs to look at.

00:33:34.512 –> 00:33:40.492
John Kennedy: So maybe we could hear another bit of breather near the end or something that we haven’t heard yet just to round things off.

00:33:40.492 –> 00:33:40.692
Jamie: Okay.

00:34:29.582 –> 00:34:31.462
John Kennedy: That is Breather, then, by JamieXX.

00:34:31.462 –> 00:34:35.082
John Kennedy: I’m going to chuck in another question from one of our patrons.

00:34:35.082 –> 00:34:45.322
John Kennedy: Lewis Brydson in Adelaide in Australia says, I’d love to hear about how you approach writing, arranging and mixing your low end, your bass kicks, 808s always feel so perfectly deep and considered.

00:34:45.322 –> 00:34:49.762
John Kennedy: Did working with Oliver on bass in the XX influence your approach to subs for the clubs?

00:34:49.762 –> 00:34:53.602
John Kennedy: And I mentioned this just because you mentioned using the 808 on that track.

00:34:54.662 –> 00:35:01.182
Jamie: I always feel like I struggle with mixing, because I guess I’m such a perfectionist about it.

00:35:01.182 –> 00:35:11.262
Jamie: And I think a lot of producers feel like other people’s mixes sound better than their own, but I think it’s mostly because they are just too in it on their own stuff.

00:35:11.262 –> 00:35:18.382
Jamie: But I’ve had conversations with other people who I think are the best mixers out there, and they feel the same way.

00:35:18.382 –> 00:35:21.282
Jamie: So I’m very flattered that they like my sub bass and stuff.

00:35:21.282 –> 00:35:29.062
Jamie: But honestly, I’m just like messing around with stuff and have a few little tricks here and there, and really nice gear.

00:35:29.062 –> 00:35:40.762
Jamie: I mean, the drum machines that I use, mostly this Ila and the MPC 1000, they just have like an extra little oomph that I don’t know what it is.

00:35:40.762 –> 00:35:44.982
Jamie: Something to do with the way the attack hits.

00:35:44.982 –> 00:35:47.622
Jamie: And it has like sort of an analog emulation.

00:35:47.622 –> 00:35:51.282
Jamie: The MPC 1000 does, and this has analog circuitry mixed with digital.

00:35:52.282 –> 00:35:59.602
Jamie: But it just cuts through and then it’s just sort of about how you EQ the rest of the track so that all the sub works with everything else.

00:35:59.602 –> 00:36:00.282
John Kennedy: Fascinating.

00:36:00.282 –> 00:36:00.542
John Kennedy: Right.

00:36:00.542 –> 00:36:04.502
John Kennedy: We’re going to take a little break and we’ll be back to look at Dafodil.

00:36:06.542 –> 00:36:13.542
John Kennedy: For musicians and songwriters who rely on voice notes like so many of our guests do, Tape It, the iPhone recording app is made for you.

00:36:13.542 –> 00:36:16.462
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00:36:16.462 –> 00:36:19.122
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00:36:19.462 –> 00:36:29.342
John Kennedy: Whether that’s building up instruments, trying out top lines or adding as many harmonies as you like, layering is a brilliant way to flesh out ideas while staying in the creative flow.

00:36:29.342 –> 00:36:33.162
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00:36:33.162 –> 00:36:43.122
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00:36:43.122 –> 00:36:50.462
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00:36:50.462 –> 00:36:56.182
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00:36:56.182 –> 00:37:00.322
John Kennedy: The next one we’re going to look at from In Waves by Jamie XX is Dafodil.

00:37:00.322 –> 00:37:11.282
John Kennedy: But I must say, Jamie, I’m enjoying this eighth floor ambiance of being in Soho, in the centre of London, and we can hear various different sounds from the street and above us.

00:37:11.282 –> 00:37:13.262
John Kennedy: I think we’ve had a plane go over as well.

00:37:14.022 –> 00:37:16.802
John Kennedy: What’s it like creating in that environment?

00:37:16.802 –> 00:37:19.042
John Kennedy: Better than in a basement isolated from the world?

00:37:19.062 –> 00:37:22.102
Jamie: Yes, I think so.

00:37:22.102 –> 00:37:26.442
Jamie: It’s definitely not the ideal room for sound.

00:37:26.442 –> 00:37:33.462
Jamie: I’ve had to put this cage around the speakers because of the mobile phone tiles, they were interfering with speakers.

00:37:33.462 –> 00:37:33.782
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:37:33.782 –> 00:37:35.542
Jamie: So that cut it out.

00:37:35.562 –> 00:37:37.042
John Kennedy: What’s that material made of?

00:37:37.042 –> 00:37:38.562
Jamie: It’s like copper wire.

00:37:38.562 –> 00:37:38.722
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:37:39.962 –> 00:37:43.902
Jamie: And then obviously the glass reflects harshly.

00:37:43.902 –> 00:37:53.662
Jamie: So I’m using this sound reference, sound ID reference software which you record different tones coming out of speakers of different parts of the room.

00:37:53.662 –> 00:37:57.762
Jamie: And it will EQ the speakers so that it sounds a bit tighter.

00:37:57.762 –> 00:38:02.262
Jamie: Plus all the noise from the streets and neighbors complaining and stuff like that.

00:38:02.262 –> 00:38:05.242
Jamie: But it’s a vibey place to work.

00:38:05.242 –> 00:38:10.042
Jamie: And then when I go home to Hackney, I have a studio in the basement there, which sounds really tight.

00:38:10.042 –> 00:38:15.562
Jamie: I can mix everything and it’s just nice to have two different worlds that you can kind of do different things in.

00:38:15.562 –> 00:38:17.642
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, that’s great, isn’t it?

00:38:17.642 –> 00:38:19.922
John Kennedy: I have another question from Patreon.

00:38:19.922 –> 00:38:23.822
John Kennedy: Leonardo Ramirez says, Hi Jamie, I’m a huge fan of you and the XX.

00:38:23.822 –> 00:38:34.982
John Kennedy: How does it feel to be a pioneer of this very British sound that’s trending in the current productions of artists like Skrillex or Fred again, though those very UK drums, but you had already incorporated them a decade before.

00:38:34.982 –> 00:38:37.542
John Kennedy: How does it feel to be a fundamental piece of British house?

00:38:38.662 –> 00:38:39.922
John Kennedy: Really interesting perspective.

00:38:39.922 –> 00:38:43.002
John Kennedy: I mean, you probably don’t feel that that is the case.

00:38:43.002 –> 00:38:45.302
Jamie: Well, yeah, I don’t know.

00:38:45.302 –> 00:38:53.862
Jamie: I spent so long making In Waves that there was this new generation of people making music.

00:38:54.302 –> 00:39:05.242
Jamie: I guess people were saying some of it was inspired by what I did on In Colour, as well as a lot of other of my peers were doing it back in that era.

00:39:05.242 –> 00:39:18.782
Jamie: I found it quite hard to deal with honestly, just because it was hard to work out where my place was in all of it and how to do something new if other people were doing stuff like I used to do, but also like stay true to my roots.

00:39:18.782 –> 00:39:25.282
Jamie: So at the end, I just managed to get to that headspace where I was just enjoying making music for the sake of it.

00:39:25.282 –> 00:39:34.482
Jamie: And new stuff ended up coming out anyway, new sounds, as well as stuff that I just always loved like the garage shuffle in drums or whatever.

00:39:35.762 –> 00:39:40.842
Jamie: And also I realized there’s just there’s room for everyone in all of it.

00:39:40.842 –> 00:39:50.282
Jamie: And dance music has always gone in waves of being extremely popular to underground and back and forth is part of what drives it on.

00:39:50.282 –> 00:39:55.022
Jamie: So yeah, it’s just always an exciting and fast moving genre.

00:39:55.022 –> 00:39:55.422
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:39:55.422 –> 00:40:05.502
John Kennedy: And as long as you can find the things that are exciting you, then you feel motivated and inspired to give it a go, as it were, without the burden of your past achievements.

00:40:05.502 –> 00:40:06.102
Jamie: Yeah.

00:40:06.102 –> 00:40:07.262
John Kennedy: Yeah, that’s good.

00:40:07.262 –> 00:40:11.962
John Kennedy: We’re going to listen to Dafodil now, so maybe you could give us a blast of The Master.

00:40:11.962 –> 00:40:13.842
Jamie: Oh yeah, The Master.

00:40:21.822 –> 00:40:25.862
Jamie: Couple years back, it was crazy, it was with a beautiful female.

00:41:17.865 –> 00:41:21.105
John Kennedy: It is Daffodil by JamieXX from In Waves.

00:41:21.105 –> 00:41:27.745
John Kennedy: And it’s interesting hearing that because in the context of the album, the tracks before that build up and a bit more up tempo.

00:41:27.885 –> 00:41:32.045
John Kennedy: And this kind of takes it down, takes it more in an R&B direction slightly.

00:41:32.045 –> 00:41:33.245
John Kennedy: But your own version of that.

00:41:34.385 –> 00:41:36.485
John Kennedy: It also involves some other collaborators.

00:41:36.485 –> 00:41:37.445
Jamie: Yeah.

00:41:37.445 –> 00:41:54.685
Jamie: This was another one that was very early in terms of me working out what the sound of the album was, spoken word and sampling, soul records, and just my own collection really, making music like I used to make when I was a kid.

00:41:54.965 –> 00:42:10.305
Jamie: I’d made this around the same time as I made Breather, and it was all because I had a BBC Essential Mix coming up, which was going to go out during lockdown.

00:42:10.305 –> 00:42:17.945
Jamie: So I had a bit of like a driving force as well, to just make some new stuff, exclusive bits, because that’s kind of what you do for the Essential Mix.

00:42:17.945 –> 00:42:26.225
Jamie: And I made this basis of this quite quickly and was just texting friends, if they would try vocals over it.

00:42:26.265 –> 00:42:34.265
Jamie: And one of the people I texted was Kelsey Liu, who I’d worked on her album before, and we’ve just been really good friends for a long time.

00:42:34.265 –> 00:42:42.845
Jamie: And so, and she texted me back these voice notes, kind of telling the story of one of the night, a night out early on in our friendship.

00:42:42.845 –> 00:42:46.885
Jamie: And I started pitching it and sort of fitting it to the track.

00:42:46.885 –> 00:42:50.625
Jamie: And that became the basis for the story of the track.

00:42:50.625 –> 00:42:53.885
Jamie: And then I asked lots and lots of different people to come and collaborate on it.

00:42:55.225 –> 00:42:57.845
Jamie: Only via text or email, because it was still locked down.

00:42:57.845 –> 00:43:03.445
Jamie: But I think there’s a version somewhere with like 20 different artists on it.

00:43:04.645 –> 00:43:11.425
Jamie: And it was, again, it was just like years and years of trying to fit those puzzle pieces together and then stripping it back and doing it again.

00:43:11.425 –> 00:43:23.845
Jamie: And there’s one version where I had like gone to Carnival and recorded lots of bits of like what people were saying and then fitted those in so it had like more of a Carnival vibe and then that didn’t quite feel right for the vibe.

00:43:23.845 –> 00:43:31.585
Jamie: But yeah, lots of collaborations and experimenting with the vocals on this, but the basis of the track was done very fast again.

00:43:31.585 –> 00:43:32.085
Jamie: Right.

00:43:32.085 –> 00:43:40.045
John Kennedy: And when you reached out to those people, what did you ask from them just for them to speak or to sing?

00:43:40.045 –> 00:43:48.445
Jamie: Because I had this Kelsey Lou bit and the intro that says, it all started one summer night in London.

00:43:48.445 –> 00:43:50.185
John Kennedy: So is that from a record or is that?

00:43:50.185 –> 00:43:52.725
Jamie: No, that was just the beginning of the story really.

00:43:52.725 –> 00:43:53.045
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:43:53.045 –> 00:44:11.225
Jamie: Because we’d had this night out in London and I just asked them to talk about their dreamy either made up or real night out, slash sunny day out in London going raving, dancing or just having fun really.

00:44:12.105 –> 00:44:17.625
Jamie: And people, I guess because it was lockdown still came back quite quickly with lots of things.

00:44:17.625 –> 00:44:21.445
Jamie: And it was all people who I knew had a relationship with London as well.

00:44:21.445 –> 00:44:24.725
Jamie: So like could quite easily draw upon these things.

00:44:24.725 –> 00:44:27.665
Jamie: And there’s so many good verses that came in.

00:44:27.665 –> 00:44:31.385
Jamie: I would love to finish that version at some point with all the people on it.

00:44:31.385 –> 00:44:33.365
John Kennedy: Yeah, that would be amazing.

00:44:33.365 –> 00:44:35.525
John Kennedy: Musically, what started it?

00:44:36.265 –> 00:44:56.305
Jamie: So, I was just listening to my records at home for pleasure and going through 7 inches that I have, some of which I hadn’t actually listened to because I just buy stuff all the time and like I’m record shopping, sometimes things slip up past me.

00:44:56.405 –> 00:44:59.845
Jamie: And it’s this JJ Barnes record.

00:44:59.845 –> 00:45:06.725
Jamie: And it’s not normally the sort of thing that I sample because originally it’s not a dance tempo.

00:45:06.725 –> 00:45:08.905
Jamie: It’s just a quite sweet soul song.

00:45:08.905 –> 00:45:18.285
Jamie: But the lyrics and the vocal melody just got me and I went down to the studio after playing it upstairs on my record player and sampled it straight in.

00:45:18.285 –> 00:45:22.265
Jamie: So it’s got all the crackle on it from the record.

00:45:22.265 –> 00:45:24.485
Jamie: And it became the basis for this song.

00:45:43.999 –> 00:45:47.059
Jamie: So I just took the bass out, really.

00:45:47.059 –> 00:45:59.499
Jamie: And I wanted to sample in a very basic, like sort of old school, like 90s hip hop, New York hip hop style way, where like things just cut in and cut out.

00:45:59.499 –> 00:46:08.599
Jamie: A very obvious sample, not like trying to weave it in, like I would normally do, but with just harsh sort of brash, like, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, but I would just go with the brash, like this is a sample and then out.

00:46:08.599 –> 00:46:09.339
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:46:09.339 –> 00:46:15.259
Jamie: And I was also like weaving the sample in different ways to help the story.

00:46:15.259 –> 00:46:24.979
Jamie: So after Kelsey Liu said something, I think this, that happens because he’s kind of responding to that.

00:46:24.979 –> 00:46:25.779
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:46:25.779 –> 00:46:30.179
Jamie: And then there’s another bit, I just chopped up the words to make sense of the story.

00:46:32.159 –> 00:46:34.619
Jamie: He’s trying to, I’m trying to get him to say I was too.

00:46:34.619 –> 00:46:35.579
Jamie: And then this bit.

00:46:42.679 –> 00:47:02.219
Jamie: And then after I had done all that work, like meandering her vocal with the sample, trying to make it like a boy-girl thing, but using the sample as my voice, I guess, I came across the Astra Gilberto version of the same song, which I think was the original.

00:47:02.219 –> 00:47:03.999
Jamie: And then JJ Barnes was the cover.

00:47:03.999 –> 00:47:06.119
John Kennedy: And is the song originally called Dafodil?

00:47:06.519 –> 00:47:09.499
Jamie: No, it’s called Touching You.

00:47:09.499 –> 00:47:13.979
Jamie: And I thought I’d never done the thing where I’d sampled two different versions of the same song.

00:47:13.979 –> 00:47:14.719
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:47:14.719 –> 00:47:16.159
Jamie: And it would be a fun switch up.

00:47:16.159 –> 00:47:27.799
Jamie: And also because the song is like a conversation or a story told by a boy and a girl, to switch up the dynamic with the sample going from male to female as well.

00:47:27.799 –> 00:47:28.739
Jamie: So it suddenly switches.

00:47:45.719 –> 00:47:47.679
Jamie: And I just chopped it again, took out the bass.

00:47:47.679 –> 00:47:50.799
Jamie: So there was room for all the other bits.

00:48:01.235 –> 00:48:05.075
John Kennedy: And which purchase came first, the JJ Barnes version?

00:48:05.075 –> 00:48:06.695
Jamie: It was the JJ Barnes version.

00:48:06.695 –> 00:48:09.555
John Kennedy: And that you just stumbled across while record shopping?

00:48:09.555 –> 00:48:14.495
Jamie: Yeah, I think I must have got, I was in Detroit, no, Tokyo, I think before.

00:48:14.495 –> 00:48:28.135
Jamie: I was in Tokyo when COVID hit with my parents, and I had a gig that night in a really sweaty club with loads of young people, and my parents were in their seventies, and we all went to the club without any idea of really what COVID was.

00:48:28.135 –> 00:48:36.255
Jamie: And then the next day, we all had to get on a flight home, end our trip, but they were fine, and I also picked up loads of great records.

00:48:36.255 –> 00:48:36.595
John Kennedy: Right.

00:48:36.595 –> 00:48:37.595
Jamie: And this was one of them.

00:48:37.595 –> 00:48:37.795
John Kennedy: Right.

00:48:37.795 –> 00:48:41.035
John Kennedy: So didn’t pick up COVID, but picked up some great records.

00:48:41.035 –> 00:48:42.075
John Kennedy: So that was kind of handy.

00:48:42.075 –> 00:48:45.015
John Kennedy: And this is one that you bought in a kind of a whole load of things.

00:48:45.015 –> 00:48:49.995
John Kennedy: And then you had the time because you were locked down to actually have a listen to these records.

00:48:49.995 –> 00:48:50.615
Jamie: Yeah.

00:48:50.615 –> 00:48:53.415
John Kennedy: And then that led you to Astrid Gilberto.

00:48:53.415 –> 00:48:54.475
Jamie: Yes.

00:48:54.475 –> 00:49:02.035
Jamie: I mean, obviously I had listened to her before, but that song I hadn’t or maybe I hadn’t ever noticed before.

00:49:02.035 –> 00:49:09.455
Jamie: But I actually found a bunch of other versions, covers of it, it seems like lots of people have covered it.

00:49:09.455 –> 00:49:12.715
Jamie: But these are the two that I felt worked best together.

00:49:12.715 –> 00:49:14.695
John Kennedy: But I mean, you reinvent it really.

00:49:14.855 –> 00:49:20.115
John Kennedy: It’s not as if you’re doing or using it as I’m going to do touching you in this new way.

00:49:20.115 –> 00:49:20.375
Jamie: Yeah.

00:49:20.535 –> 00:49:22.255
John Kennedy: You create a whole new thing from it.

00:49:22.255 –> 00:49:22.975
Jamie: Yeah.

00:49:22.975 –> 00:49:24.115
Jamie: Well, I tried.

00:49:24.475 –> 00:49:24.675
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:49:24.675 –> 00:49:26.095
John Kennedy: Well, I think you did.

00:49:26.095 –> 00:49:28.255
John Kennedy: No, no question.

00:49:28.255 –> 00:49:31.635
John Kennedy: Aaron Blakett got in touch to say, where do you find the inspiration for a track?

00:49:31.635 –> 00:49:36.955
John Kennedy: But he’s praising your sampling and are there different ways that you might approach this?

00:49:36.955 –> 00:49:42.235
John Kennedy: But it seems, in a way, it’s kind of random as much as it is thought through.

00:49:42.235 –> 00:49:42.775
Jamie: Yeah.

00:49:42.775 –> 00:49:49.895
Jamie: I mean, I have like a very messy catalog in my brain of all my records, which is a lot of records.

00:49:49.895 –> 00:49:53.975
Jamie: All the things that one day I want to sample, they’re all up in there.

00:49:53.975 –> 00:50:03.095
Jamie: And so like when I’m making music and something feels like it could fit, it usually just comes up in my mind and I’ll go get it out of the record shelf.

00:50:03.095 –> 00:50:03.775
John Kennedy: Right.

00:50:03.775 –> 00:50:05.435
Jamie: Or I’ll just rip it off YouTube.

00:50:05.435 –> 00:50:16.935
Jamie: Sometimes that really works because of the way it’s like sort of compressed on YouTube makes things fit nicely into a mix if you don’t want it to be like super shiny.

00:50:16.935 –> 00:50:22.715
Jamie: But yeah, it’s all just sort of a jumble of things that kind of make their way to the surface when it’s right.

00:50:22.715 –> 00:50:23.075
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:50:23.075 –> 00:50:23.835
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:50:23.835 –> 00:50:30.255
John Kennedy: Rafa also says, what tools or effects do you reach for most when warping or re-contextualizing a sample?

00:50:30.255 –> 00:50:34.475
John Kennedy: Now, are there go-to processes that you would use?

00:50:34.475 –> 00:50:37.375
Jamie: It’s changed over the years.

00:50:37.435 –> 00:50:49.515
Jamie: I used to be really avid about not messing with the sound quality of a sample, especially if I’d recorded it in off vinyl, and I’d spent a long time making that sound good.

00:50:49.515 –> 00:50:55.695
Jamie: I didn’t want to then stretch it, time-stretch it, or do anything to degrade the sound like that.

00:50:55.695 –> 00:50:59.195
Jamie: So that would inform how I would sample things.

00:50:59.195 –> 00:51:07.655
Jamie: But now, I just started messing with things a lot more, and I use this time-stretch thing on Logic, which is so simple.

00:51:07.655 –> 00:51:11.235
Jamie: I mean, I think, actually, with this track, I didn’t really use it.

00:51:11.235 –> 00:51:21.395
Jamie: But if you turn it on, it will sort of detect tempo, and then you can stretch things out just by pulling these guys, like, super simple.

00:51:21.395 –> 00:51:26.775
Jamie: And you can set it to different settings, and it kind of messes it up in different ways.

00:51:26.775 –> 00:51:34.715
Jamie: But with Dafodil, actually, it’s literally just, I recorded the record in and did stuff over the top and tried to keep the essence of what the record was.

00:51:34.995 –> 00:51:35.335
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:51:35.335 –> 00:51:38.095
John Kennedy: And so we’ve heard some of the ingredients.

00:51:38.095 –> 00:51:38.815
John Kennedy: What happened next?

00:51:38.815 –> 00:51:41.455
John Kennedy: How did you build up this track?

00:51:42.555 –> 00:51:52.095
Jamie: So I wanted it to be like a sharp change from like the lushness of the sample and the sweetness of the sample to this very stark drum beat.

00:51:52.095 –> 00:52:00.555
Jamie: And it’s literally just a Logic bass, again, a very, very basic plugin.

00:52:00.555 –> 00:52:09.055
Jamie: I quite like using those Logic ones that are like the earliest ones, because they have sort of a rawness to them, that some of the fancy new plugins lose.

00:52:09.055 –> 00:52:11.895
Jamie: They’re all a bit too sort of smooth.

00:52:11.895 –> 00:52:20.315
Jamie: And then like another, just like a, I think for this, I used the basic drum sampler on Logic as well.

00:52:20.315 –> 00:52:34.995
Jamie: When you start programming it, playing it like just on the keyboard, but you add glide to the sampler, it sort of changes the attack on the drums.

00:52:34.995 –> 00:52:40.155
Jamie: So it’s basically like gliding up and down between hi-hat and clap and kick.

00:52:40.155 –> 00:52:46.575
Jamie: So the, it’s doing what it would do on a synth, except it’s just making every drum slightly bendy.

00:52:46.575 –> 00:52:48.035
Jamie: And I think it sounds really nice.

00:52:48.035 –> 00:52:54.335
Jamie: I do that quite a lot to sort of give some sort of newness to old drum machine sounds.

00:52:54.335 –> 00:52:55.315
Jamie: So it ends up sounding like this.

00:53:02.643 –> 00:53:08.083
Jamie: It’s kind of not very noticeable until you take it off, and it can actually tell what it’s doing.

00:53:08.083 –> 00:53:09.323
Jamie: But yeah.

00:53:10.843 –> 00:53:23.123
Jamie: And then I just ran it through distortion and this thermal thing, which adds, it’s just like a bunch of sort of wideners and affect things that sometimes I use.

00:53:23.123 –> 00:53:28.923
Jamie: But I find often that actually when you’re trying to mix something, it kind of does too much.

00:53:29.843 –> 00:53:42.103
Jamie: And when I take it into like a mixing session with David, say, I’ll do a stem with thermal on and with one without, because we can recreate it in a much more like natural way that’s not messing with the audio too much.

00:53:42.103 –> 00:53:44.523
John Kennedy: Right.

00:53:44.523 –> 00:53:48.623
Jamie: So this is thermal on.

00:53:50.943 –> 00:53:51.723
Jamie: And this is off.

00:53:51.723 –> 00:53:54.923
Jamie: It’s basically making it louder with drive.

00:53:54.923 –> 00:53:58.603
Jamie: And this has a sub thing on, but I’ve taken all the bass out of it anyway.

00:53:59.143 –> 00:54:02.103
Jamie: But I think it’s probably also on the kick.

00:54:02.103 –> 00:54:09.003
Jamie: Oh no, I took it off the kick because it made it too, too much for when I was mixing.

00:54:09.003 –> 00:54:11.543
Jamie: But it does sound good if you’re just listening at headphones.

00:54:13.083 –> 00:54:24.863
Jamie: And the other fun thing on this is the synth thing that I made using Morph SC.

00:54:24.863 –> 00:54:29.423
Jamie: I think it’s Zynaptiq is the company that makes it.

00:54:29.423 –> 00:54:39.843
Jamie: It’s essentially a vocoder type thing, but you can run drums through it to trigger synths and vice versa and come up with lots of strange sounds.

00:54:39.843 –> 00:54:46.323
Jamie: So this is, if I turn it off, this synth is just a, I think it’s like a choral.

00:54:47.443 –> 00:54:54.363
Jamie: It’s just like a very horrible sounding synth doing the chords.

00:54:54.363 –> 00:55:03.543
Jamie: But playing something else through it, whatever instrument 8 is on here, it turns it into this.

00:55:12.718 –> 00:55:15.138
John Kennedy: Markedly different, by the way.

00:55:15.138 –> 00:55:18.858
Jamie: Yeah, it suddenly becomes beautiful, and you can’t tell what’s happening.

00:55:19.938 –> 00:55:24.178
Jamie: Basically, it’s just, there’s something triggering it, poking it through every time.

00:55:24.178 –> 00:55:29.818
Jamie: And, like, again, it just creates these artifacts that feel so organic and natural.

00:55:29.818 –> 00:55:34.958
Jamie: And then I ran it through the Space Echo over there, which just adds that spring reverb.

00:55:38.038 –> 00:55:45.358
Jamie: I can’t even remember what is triggering it, but something on here is doing that, whatever instrument A is.

00:55:45.358 –> 00:55:50.338
Jamie: And it’s probably just another horrible sounding synth, but combined, they make that.

00:55:50.338 –> 00:55:57.638
John Kennedy: And so, I mean, the different people listed as collaborating on this track are Kelsey Lu, John Glacier, Panda Bear.

00:55:57.638 –> 00:56:06.558
John Kennedy: And are they doing, they’re just providing spoken word sounds in effect, or did anybody get involved in the music?

00:56:06.558 –> 00:56:08.678
Jamie: Everybody was just providing vocals.

00:56:08.958 –> 00:56:09.138
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:56:09.138 –> 00:56:14.118
Jamie: But everybody that I chose for this final version did it in a different way.

00:56:14.118 –> 00:56:25.138
Jamie: There were a lot of other people that sent voice notes of them speaking or, like, sort of semi-rapping, speaking rhythmically and rhyming, but with enough space for me to chop it up.

00:56:25.138 –> 00:56:42.518
Jamie: But the ones that ended up on here was, so Kelsey Lu being the main source, John Glacier doing a verse as, like, you know, essentially a wrapped verse, and she sent various versions of that that would fit differently and…

00:56:42.518 –> 00:56:44.078
John Kennedy: And you’d sent them the track?

00:56:44.078 –> 00:56:45.578
Jamie: I’d sent them the track, yeah.

00:56:45.578 –> 00:56:53.878
Jamie: I think a very basic one without the Astrid part on it, just for them, instrumental-wise, so they can just do whatever they wanted.

00:56:53.878 –> 00:57:00.258
Jamie: And she did this brilliant verse that I loved that is actually not in this project, because there’s obviously a thousand versions of this project as well.

00:57:01.318 –> 00:57:08.498
Jamie: But then Panda Bear sent his part, which was again totally different, and took it into a whole new world again.

00:57:08.498 –> 00:57:19.058
Jamie: And I loved the idea that this track would just like, sort of like the sample comes in and out so brashly, every new style would come in and out brashly and be unexpected.

00:57:19.058 –> 00:57:28.218
Jamie: And so the combination of Lou, John Glacier and Panda Bear together was like, I felt like everything was different enough for it to make sense.

00:57:28.738 –> 00:57:29.298
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:57:29.298 –> 00:57:31.378
John Kennedy: Are you able to play either of those?

00:57:31.378 –> 00:57:32.058
Jamie: Yes.

00:57:32.058 –> 00:57:36.098
Jamie: So the Panda Bear bit, he’s so good at treating his vocals.

00:57:36.098 –> 00:57:44.618
Jamie: He sent me a dry stem and a wet stem with all of the autotune stuff and the reverb.

00:57:44.618 –> 00:57:50.318
Jamie: And I ended up just using his wet stem, I think, because he’s got some special techniques that sound so good.

00:58:01.538 –> 00:58:05.338
Jamie: Sometimes it feels could be anyone, so place it there.

00:58:05.338 –> 00:58:07.198
John Kennedy: Is the dry stem that’s still there?

00:58:07.198 –> 00:58:08.578
Jamie: No, that’s just the wet.

00:58:08.578 –> 00:58:08.918
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:58:08.918 –> 00:58:13.138
Jamie: There’s actually a second part of the verse that he sent.

00:58:13.138 –> 00:58:15.838
Jamie: It’s not in the track, but it’s also really good.

00:58:15.838 –> 00:58:16.798
Jamie: I wanted to put it in there.

00:58:33.158 –> 00:58:38.378
Jamie: But, yeah, for structure reasons, I ended up just using that tiny section.

00:58:38.378 –> 00:58:38.578
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:58:38.578 –> 00:58:48.838
John Kennedy: It sounds like there needs to be, well, there’s another version of this song with 20 different people, and maybe more verses and 20-minute tune.

00:58:48.838 –> 00:58:49.298
Jamie: One day.

00:58:49.298 –> 00:58:49.898
John Kennedy: Amazing.

00:58:49.898 –> 00:58:51.538
John Kennedy: Yeah, I really hope so.

00:58:52.358 –> 00:58:55.878
John Kennedy: You mentioned with the Panda Bear that in a way you left it as it was.

00:58:56.438 –> 00:59:00.358
John Kennedy: He created a wet one that sounded magical, use it as it is.

00:59:00.358 –> 00:59:05.998
John Kennedy: Were you EQing the other ones to make them work with the track, to make them work the way you wanted them?

00:59:06.038 –> 00:59:08.058
Jamie: Yeah, definitely.

00:59:08.058 –> 00:59:10.238
Jamie: I also tried that with him.

00:59:11.318 –> 00:59:22.918
Jamie: I was in the studio in LA which had a proper reverb chamber, like the old 60s, the Hazelwood sound, which I love.

00:59:22.918 –> 00:59:27.318
Jamie: And we ran the dry Panda Bear stuff through that room.

00:59:27.318 –> 00:59:33.118
Jamie: It’s been ages EQing it and EQing out all of the little spikes that happen when you’re bouncing stuff off of a room.

00:59:33.938 –> 00:59:38.318
Jamie: And it sounded cool, but the original just sounded back to me, so I ended up using that.

00:59:38.318 –> 00:59:38.738
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:59:38.738 –> 00:59:42.058
Jamie: I don’t think I have that in the project.

00:59:42.058 –> 00:59:47.238
Jamie: Yeah, there’s another project somewhere with that stuff.

00:59:47.238 –> 00:59:51.898
Jamie: Then there’s just so much other stuff in this project that I piled in there.

00:59:51.898 –> 00:59:53.238
Jamie: I don’t know what it is.

00:59:53.238 –> 00:59:54.278
Jamie: It’s all muted.

00:59:54.318 –> 00:59:56.618
Jamie: I’ll just unmute something and see what it is.

00:59:56.718 –> 00:59:59.918
Jamie: Oh yeah, this is more of the…

00:59:59.918 –> 01:00:09.598
Jamie: So there’s a part at the end of the song which is a sample of Asap Rocky talking about his LSD trip just from a documentary.

01:00:09.598 –> 01:00:16.418
Jamie: And there was another version of this where I’d used that sample all the way throughout as another voice interacting with Kelsey Loon.

01:00:16.418 –> 01:00:23.738
Jamie: And I woke up the next day and I said, I know what the answer to life is.

01:00:24.118 –> 01:00:27.778
Jamie: So that’s like that’s what’s happening at the end of the track now on the final version.

01:00:27.778 –> 01:00:30.558
Jamie: But in this version, it seems to be somewhere in the middle.

01:00:30.558 –> 01:00:33.198
John Kennedy: And did Asap Rocky actually release that?

01:00:33.198 –> 01:00:35.898
Jamie: I just saw it was a documentary on Netflix.

01:00:35.898 –> 01:00:44.618
Jamie: I think there’s loads of good little bits about, you know, of people’s druggy experiences that are good for something.

01:00:44.618 –> 01:00:45.578
Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

01:00:45.578 –> 01:00:48.798
John Kennedy: But I’m thinking when he’s found the meaning of life there.

01:00:48.798 –> 01:00:49.718
John Kennedy: We need the answer.

01:00:49.758 –> 01:00:51.338
John Kennedy: Yes.

01:00:51.338 –> 01:00:55.058
John Kennedy: Is there anything else in Dafodil that we should hear music wise?

01:00:55.058 –> 01:00:56.198
Jamie: I mean, it’s pretty simple.

01:00:56.198 –> 01:01:02.998
Jamie: The only other stuff is like just the switch up in the bass and in the middle section.

01:01:02.998 –> 01:01:05.158
Jamie: There’s like these drum fills.

01:01:05.158 –> 01:01:06.538
Jamie: I think it was…

01:01:08.938 –> 01:01:11.078
Jamie: It’s just on an MPC.

01:01:11.078 –> 01:01:17.998
Jamie: And then the bass that switches up in that new section goes from that kind of crappy Logic plug-in to…

01:01:20.018 –> 01:01:22.578
Jamie: another crappy Logic plug-in that sounds…

01:01:22.578 –> 01:01:24.958
Jamie: It’s like a double bass thing.

01:01:24.958 –> 01:01:34.318
Jamie: But I think it reminds me of those early 2000s sort of DJ-luck and MC-neat garage sounds, which I always loved.

01:01:36.398 –> 01:01:43.698
Jamie: And then the other part, the only other part of this track is the piano that I wanted to sound like a sort of Dr.

01:01:43.698 –> 01:01:46.198
Jamie: J, Eminem-esque thing.

01:01:47.538 –> 01:02:10.278
Jamie: So originally, it was just this crappy Logic sampler piano, the most basic Yamaha piano, messed around with an envelope and like just bringing up the end so that it made it more extreme, making it sound as unrealistic as possible.

01:02:10.278 –> 01:02:15.838
Jamie: But it never quite fitted in the mix, because it just, with everything else in there, it just didn’t stand out.

01:02:15.838 –> 01:02:22.098
Jamie: So then I recorded a real piano over the top very quietly just for texture.

01:02:22.098 –> 01:02:22.978
John Kennedy: Right.

01:02:22.978 –> 01:02:27.098
John Kennedy: Well, is that the piano that’s in this apartment?

01:02:27.098 –> 01:02:28.858
Jamie: No, this is actually in LA.

01:02:29.598 –> 01:02:30.358
John Kennedy: Right.

01:02:30.358 –> 01:02:37.498
John Kennedy: Because we should mention that you do have a piano up eight floors in a flat and so amazing.

01:02:37.738 –> 01:02:41.958
John Kennedy: So again, a production that was made all over the world.

01:02:41.958 –> 01:02:42.358
Jamie: Yeah.

01:02:42.358 –> 01:02:43.638
Jamie: Everything was on this album.

01:02:44.798 –> 01:02:48.218
Jamie: I think of In Colour as being very London based.

01:02:48.218 –> 01:02:52.258
Jamie: Even though I was on tour making it, I was thinking about London.

01:02:52.258 –> 01:02:57.918
Jamie: And In Waves is so global and I wasn’t thinking about specifically London.

01:02:57.918 –> 01:03:04.158
Jamie: I was thinking about everywhere because that was my whole life, was just being between places.

01:03:04.158 –> 01:03:04.958
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:03:04.958 –> 01:03:06.018
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

01:03:06.018 –> 01:03:06.298
John Kennedy: Right.

01:03:06.298 –> 01:03:11.638
John Kennedy: Let’s have a blast to the end of Dafodil or something just to round things up.

01:03:12.118 –> 01:03:13.578
Jamie: I’ll just play that Panda Bear bit.

01:03:58.278 –> 01:03:58.738
John Kennedy: Brilliant.

01:03:58.738 –> 01:04:00.658
John Kennedy: It is Dafodil by Jamie XX.

01:04:00.738 –> 01:04:04.898
John Kennedy: We’re gonna take another break, and we’ll be back to listen to life.

01:04:06.558 –> 01:04:15.418
John Kennedy: This episode of Tape Notes is brought to you by LANDR, the all-in-one platform for musicians to create, master, and release their music to over 150 streaming platforms.

01:04:15.418 –> 01:04:22.918
John Kennedy: Whether you need AI-powered mastering, industry-leading VST plugins, or a massive library of premium samples, LANDR has you covered.

01:04:22.918 –> 01:04:33.318
John Kennedy: Connect and collaborate with artists, sharpen your skills with over 200 expert-led courses, and when you’re ready to share your music with the world, with LANDR Distribution, you can ensure it reaches a global audience.

01:04:33.318 –> 01:04:38.698
John Kennedy: And today, I’m joined by Daniel Roland, Head of Strategy at LANDR, to tell us more about it.

01:04:38.698 –> 01:04:39.558
John Kennedy: Hi Daniel.

01:04:39.558 –> 01:04:44.238
John Kennedy: So, what makes LANDR Distribution such a game-changer for artists?

01:04:44.238 –> 01:04:46.098
Daniel: Yeah, John, thanks for having me on.

01:04:46.098 –> 01:04:49.498
Daniel: So, two big things kind of separate LANDR from everybody else in that regard.

01:04:49.498 –> 01:04:53.618
Daniel: And one of them is, we don’t assume you know what you’re doing when you go to distribute your music, right?

01:04:53.618 –> 01:04:57.918
Daniel: So we really put a lot of time in our intuitive release wizard that steps you through the process.

01:04:57.978 –> 01:05:05.058
Daniel: If you’re not comfortable with ISRCs or cover song licensing and all this stuff, that we really make sure you understand that as you move through the process.

01:05:05.058 –> 01:05:07.938
Daniel: So when you come back to do it again, it makes even that much more sense.

01:05:07.938 –> 01:05:12.118
Daniel: The other thing, and this is the biggest thing, is that we invest a lot in customer support.

01:05:12.118 –> 01:05:17.818
Daniel: You know, when you go to release your music, you’ve like decided the performance is right, the production is right, the song is right, the mix and match.

01:05:17.818 –> 01:05:22.538
Daniel: You have to make all these decisions before you have the confidence to go actually release your music to the world.

01:05:22.538 –> 01:05:32.538
Daniel: And if the company you choose to go with lets you down, doesn’t answer your questions, doesn’t follow up with you ASAP, you’re never gonna forgive them for that because you’re like exposed emotionally when you go to do that, right?

01:05:32.538 –> 01:05:34.838
Daniel: I think we’ve all been there as artists and musicians.

01:05:34.838 –> 01:05:37.618
Daniel: So we make sure that you feel like you are not just a number.

01:05:37.618 –> 01:05:48.038
Daniel: And I think it’s one of the nice parts of us being not one of the massive distribution companies that can’t really afford any more to support their customers, but we’re right at that sweet spot where we can make sure that you feel taken care of.

01:05:48.038 –> 01:05:49.698
Daniel: And we’ve, you know, that’s been our thing forever.

01:05:49.698 –> 01:05:53.518
Daniel: Buy musicians for musicians and the proof is in the pudding and that we actually come through on that.

01:05:53.898 –> 01:05:54.458
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

01:05:54.458 –> 01:05:59.298
John Kennedy: And how does the platform help artists grow their audience and connect with more fans?

01:05:59.298 –> 01:05:59.618
Daniel: Sure.

01:05:59.618 –> 01:06:02.178
Daniel: So one example is we’re a Spotify preferred partner.

01:06:02.178 –> 01:06:06.378
Daniel: So you get instant Spotify verification in the tools to pitch your music to playlists.

01:06:06.378 –> 01:06:20.458
Daniel: And unique to LANDR is we have a network of thousands of professionals across the industry for everything you could need for music production, whether it’s mixing, mastering, but also for marketing and distributing your music, developing plans to really get your music heard by as many people as possible.

01:06:20.758 –> 01:06:24.198
John Kennedy: But LANDR isn’t just about distribution, right?

01:06:24.198 –> 01:06:37.278
Daniel: No, LANDR started as an AI mastering company 11 years ago and has broadened to be everything you need from the day you come up with a song idea through mixing, mastering, plugins, samples, education and distribution.

01:06:37.278 –> 01:06:42.458
Daniel: And it’s all for one price that is the same price of any one of those services from another company.

01:06:42.458 –> 01:06:45.318
Daniel: So it’s everything you could need at the lowest price in the industry.

01:06:45.318 –> 01:06:48.258
Daniel: And it’s constantly evolving as we’re adding new features and services.

01:06:48.598 –> 01:06:51.738
John Kennedy: And I hear you’ve got a special offer for our listeners.

01:06:51.738 –> 01:06:52.558
Daniel: That we do.

01:06:52.558 –> 01:06:59.878
Daniel: So right now we’ve got 20% off of any LANDR subscription, whether that’s the studio subscription, which is everything we do, or even if you just want distribution.

01:06:59.878 –> 01:07:02.358
Daniel: Distribution you can get for as low as $24 a year.

01:07:02.358 –> 01:07:04.538
Daniel: That’s before that 20% discount.

01:07:04.538 –> 01:07:07.218
Daniel: And studio sits at $99, again, before the 20%.

01:07:07.778 –> 01:07:11.298
Daniel: So pretty low cost to get in the door and really see what we can do for you and your music.

01:07:11.298 –> 01:07:11.938
John Kennedy: Amazing.

01:07:11.938 –> 01:07:12.618
John Kennedy: Thanks, Daniel.

01:07:12.618 –> 01:07:20.658
John Kennedy: To find out more about LANDR, distribution and studio, head to landr.com/tapenotes and get 20% off any subscription.

01:07:20.658 –> 01:07:21.998
John Kennedy: That’s landr.com/tapenotes.

01:07:24.098 –> 01:07:26.978
John Kennedy: Or find the link in any recent episode show notes.

01:07:26.978 –> 01:07:28.938
John Kennedy: Now on with the show.

01:07:28.938 –> 01:07:33.318
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at by Jamie XX from In Waves is Life.

01:07:33.318 –> 01:07:36.418
John Kennedy: And if you could play us a blast of the master, that would be great, Jamie.

01:08:28.310 –> 01:08:31.830
John Kennedy: It is Life from In Waves featuring Robin.

01:08:31.830 –> 01:08:33.310
John Kennedy: So how did Robin get involved, Jamie?

01:08:34.610 –> 01:08:39.890
Jamie: I have been friends with Robin for years.

01:08:39.890 –> 01:08:49.070
Jamie: First time I met her, she came to Brixton Academy when we, as a band, had hired Brixton for a week, and we did a week-long festival in Brixton.

01:08:49.070 –> 01:08:54.890
Jamie: We played every night in Brixton Academy and had different bands supporting, collaborating with us.

01:08:54.890 –> 01:09:00.790
Jamie: I DJed for a whole day on the Sunday, and we had club nights going on in all the clubs in Brixton.

01:09:01.850 –> 01:09:08.710
Jamie: And Robin came to perform a couple of songs in the middle of our set, and I think that was the first time we’d ever met her.

01:09:08.710 –> 01:09:11.170
Jamie: All massive fans, obviously.

01:09:11.170 –> 01:09:14.950
Jamie: And she was such a legend, she just hung out for the rest of the week.

01:09:14.950 –> 01:09:17.330
Jamie: See, that wasn’t the plan originally.

01:09:17.330 –> 01:09:24.810
Jamie: We’d hired this house by the church in Brixton that we were staying in, and she came and stayed with us, and we just became really good friends.

01:09:24.810 –> 01:09:29.890
Jamie: And over the years, I’ve gone to stay at her house in LA or in Stockholm.

01:09:30.050 –> 01:09:41.830
Jamie: She’s come to stay at mine in London, and we’ve worked together on various things for her record, Honey, but I was in my weird headspace of not being able to finish anything then.

01:09:41.830 –> 01:09:55.970
Jamie: So none of that came out, but we created a good working relationship, and then I sent her this instrumental, and she texted back the vocal within less than 12 hours, and it was perfect.

01:09:56.030 –> 01:09:57.610
John Kennedy: Amazing, amazing.

01:09:57.610 –> 01:09:59.330
John Kennedy: And that’s what comes out of friendship, I guess.

01:09:59.330 –> 01:10:00.170
Jamie: Yeah.

01:10:00.170 –> 01:10:01.870
John Kennedy: That trust as well.

01:10:01.870 –> 01:10:07.190
John Kennedy: And the song, how far down the line was the song readied?

01:10:07.190 –> 01:10:08.710
John Kennedy: How evolved was it?

01:10:08.710 –> 01:10:20.250
Jamie: I had evolved it quite a lot because I’d originally made this as an instrumental, just based around the sample, because the sample is so strong.

01:10:20.250 –> 01:10:22.090
John Kennedy: So the sample is the brass hook?

01:10:22.090 –> 01:10:22.910
Jamie: Yeah, the brass hook.

01:10:23.490 –> 01:10:27.890
Jamie: And I’d made various versions that were just more like rollers.

01:10:27.890 –> 01:10:30.110
Jamie: They’re just, you know, the sample would filter in and out.

01:10:30.110 –> 01:10:40.190
Jamie: And more like in, I was going for sort of those early 2000s, Ibiza, sort of French house things.

01:10:40.190 –> 01:10:46.610
Jamie: But it felt a bit too maybe retro just to do that again.

01:10:46.610 –> 01:10:54.270
Jamie: And I started messing around with different samples to create verses, to vocal samples.

01:10:54.270 –> 01:10:59.490
Jamie: But then it was all too sample heavy and like felt extremely busy.

01:10:59.490 –> 01:11:07.650
Jamie: And I asked Rommie to do some stuff and she came in and did some verses, but nothing stuck.

01:11:07.650 –> 01:11:10.570
Jamie: And I don’t know why I hadn’t thought about Robin before.

01:11:10.750 –> 01:11:14.890
Jamie: I had tried all this other stuff and then it was so instant with Robin.

01:11:14.890 –> 01:11:23.110
Jamie: And I was, I’d been playing in Pascha in Ibiza that night that I texted her the instrumental.

01:11:23.110 –> 01:11:26.170
Jamie: And then when I finished at 6 a.m., she had texted back.

01:11:26.170 –> 01:11:28.490
Jamie: And it was like sunrise in Ibiza.

01:11:28.490 –> 01:11:33.670
Jamie: Perfect euphoric moment of hearing the track and being like, this is like one of the final pieces of the puzzle.

01:11:33.670 –> 01:11:34.070
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:11:34.070 –> 01:11:34.630
John Kennedy: Amazing.

01:11:34.630 –> 01:11:34.890
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:11:34.890 –> 01:11:37.050
John Kennedy: Such an uplifting track on the record.

01:11:37.050 –> 01:11:39.630
John Kennedy: And to hear it in that context must have been fantastic.

01:11:39.630 –> 01:11:40.530
Jamie: Yeah, it was great.

01:11:40.530 –> 01:11:45.030
John Kennedy: Can you maybe build the track up and show how you created it?

01:11:45.070 –> 01:11:45.450
Jamie: Yeah.

01:11:45.450 –> 01:12:02.370
Jamie: So, well, I’ll start with the sample, because I was driving to Soho, listening to tunes in my car, and came across the sample, which I hadn’t heard before, or at least it’s a quite a long track, the original.

01:12:02.370 –> 01:12:08.450
Jamie: And I heard it for the first time driving into Soho.

01:12:08.450 –> 01:12:11.630
Jamie: And so by the time I got to Soho, I knew what I was going to do that day.

01:12:11.630 –> 01:12:12.810
Jamie: And I started chopping it up.

01:12:13.050 –> 01:12:16.850
Jamie: But the original has all these amazing parts to it.

01:12:16.850 –> 01:12:24.070
Jamie: And I actually did an edit of it that I’ve been playing out, which kind of leads into my version.

01:12:24.190 –> 01:12:28.850
Jamie: I’ll play you a section of that because it kind of has all those bits in it that inspired me to make the track.

01:12:41.119 –> 01:12:43.739
Jamie: So, I’ve obviously looped the start here.

01:12:43.739 –> 01:12:45.619
Jamie: It has these amazing horns.

01:12:50.299 –> 01:12:52.599
John Kennedy: So, who is the original by?

01:12:52.599 –> 01:12:54.719
Jamie: Uh, Cerrone.

01:12:54.719 –> 01:12:56.579
John Kennedy: So, that’s C-E-R-R-O-N-E.

01:12:56.579 –> 01:12:57.959
Jamie: Yeah, I think that’s Ape Notes.

01:12:57.999 –> 01:12:59.279
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

01:13:03.359 –> 01:13:06.819
Jamie: He’s obviously made some classics over the years.

01:13:06.819 –> 01:13:12.259
Jamie: But this is, uh, it’s a cover of House of the Rising Sun.

01:13:12.259 –> 01:13:13.239
John Kennedy: Wow.

01:13:13.239 –> 01:13:17.419
Jamie: But the lyrics and the vocals on it are horrible.

01:13:17.419 –> 01:13:25.499
Jamie: And then there’s this middle section which I’ve then chopped up and looped here as the extended version which has all these amazing horns.

01:13:25.499 –> 01:13:26.939
Jamie: The rest of the song doesn’t sound like this.

01:13:27.239 –> 01:13:27.699
John Kennedy: Right.

01:13:27.699 –> 01:13:29.719
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:13:29.719 –> 01:13:32.839
Jamie: And then all this guitar as well.

01:13:32.839 –> 01:13:33.419
John Kennedy: That’s crazy.

01:13:48.940 –> 01:13:52.800
John Kennedy: Wow, so that’s your edited version of the bit that you liked, basically.

01:13:52.800 –> 01:14:00.960
Jamie: Yeah, so this is really fun, because people have heard snippets of it when I’m playing it in this edit, and they kind of get that life is coming.

01:14:00.960 –> 01:14:01.300
John Kennedy: Right.

01:14:01.300 –> 01:14:03.780
Jamie: But also there’s all this weird stuff that sounds nothing like life.

01:14:03.780 –> 01:14:05.600
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

01:14:05.600 –> 01:14:06.180
Jamie: But yeah, it’s great.

01:14:17.822 –> 01:14:19.222
John Kennedy: It’s such a group performance.

01:14:34.448 –> 01:14:36.668
Jamie: So that’s the main phrase that I used.

01:14:36.668 –> 01:14:42.348
Jamie: So then when I came into the studio that day, after hearing it for the first time, I just started looping little bits of it.

01:14:42.348 –> 01:14:46.688
Jamie: But the thing that I wanted to do, I knew from the start was that hook.

01:14:48.628 –> 01:14:51.328
Jamie: And I just started filtering it.

01:14:51.328 –> 01:14:57.648
Jamie: Put a phaser on it, like they do in those old classic French house tunes.

01:14:57.648 –> 01:15:00.648
Jamie: Just tried to keep it as simple as possible.

01:15:04.428 –> 01:15:10.368
Jamie: And like chopped up the best part of each horn to simplify it.

01:15:13.388 –> 01:15:15.508
John Kennedy: And do you automate those phasers?

01:15:15.508 –> 01:15:16.788
John Kennedy: Do you tweak them live?

01:15:16.788 –> 01:15:19.568
Jamie: The phasers, again, just a basic logic one.

01:15:19.568 –> 01:15:20.648
Jamie: Yeah.

01:15:20.648 –> 01:15:24.288
Jamie: And I just make sure it’s super slow and there’s not that much resonance on it.

01:15:24.288 –> 01:15:26.768
Jamie: So that it’s just doing a small amount to keep it moving.

01:15:28.208 –> 01:15:36.448
Jamie: And then sidechained it to a kick, which I don’t normally do these days because it’s so done, overdone over the years.

01:15:36.448 –> 01:15:42.568
Jamie: But because I wanted to reference all that French house stuff, it was kind of the obvious move for this.

01:15:42.568 –> 01:15:48.368
Jamie: And also the horns kind of sound like they’re doing that anyway, just in the placement of the groove.

01:15:48.368 –> 01:15:51.788
Jamie: So it lends itself well to that.

01:15:51.788 –> 01:15:57.148
Jamie: So I kind of just had that on loop for ages and then made a bass line for it.

01:15:57.148 –> 01:16:06.448
Jamie: And used a bunch of these old breaks that was off like a 90s sample CD that I got off eBay.

01:16:06.448 –> 01:16:08.008
Jamie: Just things like this.

01:16:10.628 –> 01:16:16.208
Jamie: And they’re like, you know, they’re CD quality, but that adds some kind of texture when you lay them all together.

01:16:19.928 –> 01:16:27.108
Jamie: And then the thing that I did with the bass, that was kind of an accident.

01:16:27.388 –> 01:16:34.988
Jamie: I turned the resonance up super high, like to the max on this Logic synth.

01:16:34.988 –> 01:16:44.068
Jamie: And then instead of using, playing the bass in, I created the bass line by changing the cutoff of the filter.

01:16:44.068 –> 01:16:49.328
Jamie: So it’s basically a super resonant tone, really low down.

01:16:50.328 –> 01:17:03.408
Jamie: So it creates all these laser sounds, because as you’re moving the cutoff automation, it goes up super high, much higher than you would on a keyboard.

01:17:04.928 –> 01:17:07.268
Jamie: But then you have to find that exact note.

01:17:08.768 –> 01:17:11.588
Jamie: I used the tuner just to do that.

01:17:11.588 –> 01:17:14.148
Jamie: I mean, they’re kind of off anyway, because the sample’s a little bit off.

01:17:14.148 –> 01:17:14.308
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:17:15.828 –> 01:17:24.148
Jamie: But if I turn up the cutoff, it changes the tone, the note of it.

01:17:28.208 –> 01:17:35.588
Jamie: It kind of came out with this really wide bass sound that I don’t think I could have created with a regular synth.

01:17:35.588 –> 01:17:36.308
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:17:36.308 –> 01:17:37.228
John Kennedy: It’s so effective.

01:17:37.588 –> 01:17:38.268
John Kennedy: It really hits home.

01:17:38.328 –> 01:17:46.908
John Kennedy: It’s such a contrast to the feel of the brass sample, and that kind of drum sound that you might mentally associate with that.

01:17:46.908 –> 01:17:49.628
John Kennedy: It kind of lets you go off in another direction.

01:17:49.628 –> 01:17:50.948
Jamie: Yeah.

01:17:50.948 –> 01:17:54.028
Jamie: Thanks.

01:17:54.028 –> 01:17:56.928
Jamie: So that was kind of the basis of it.

01:17:56.928 –> 01:18:02.648
Jamie: Then I used that bass for the verse as well.

01:18:08.808 –> 01:18:13.468
Jamie: But it didn’t quite work on its own without being backed up by the sample.

01:18:13.468 –> 01:18:22.068
Jamie: So I came up with the bass riff instead, and that kind of became the idea that there could be verses, because now there’s two hooky parts, essentially.

01:18:24.848 –> 01:18:26.108
John Kennedy: Is this the other bass line?

01:18:26.108 –> 01:18:36.468
Jamie: Yeah, this is the verse bass line, which is just using sort of a regular serum, very used bass plugin.

01:18:36.468 –> 01:18:39.848
Jamie: And I think that helped with Robin writing a vocal melody as well.

01:18:40.348 –> 01:18:41.008
John Kennedy: Right.

01:18:41.008 –> 01:18:45.668
Jamie: But that was the last bit I added, the verse instrumental parts.

01:18:45.668 –> 01:18:58.708
Jamie: The second part that I added was chopping up the sample in a different way to make what was originally going to be a verse, which turned into the bridge or the middle eight.

01:18:58.708 –> 01:19:00.088
Jamie: So I chopped up the sample like this.

01:19:13.139 –> 01:19:17.619
Jamie: This is the same bit of the sample from the other section.

01:19:17.619 –> 01:19:20.899
Jamie: It’s just chopped in a different way and filtered.

01:19:20.899 –> 01:19:29.579
Jamie: And then I had these really lovely warm synth sounds that, I can’t even remember how I made them from another project.

01:19:29.579 –> 01:19:34.959
Jamie: And that in combination with that sample made a really nice emotion.

01:19:43.925 –> 01:19:49.765
Jamie: Kind of somewhere that’s a lot warmer and brighter at the same time somehow.

01:19:55.124 –> 01:20:00.304
Jamie: And if you filter this right down, it’s quite emotional.

01:20:02.884 –> 01:20:10.004
Jamie: So I was just playing with that a lot, and that’s sort of how, those three sections, it’s how I sort of built the structure of the song.

01:20:10.004 –> 01:20:12.484
John Kennedy: And are those gated at all?

01:20:13.584 –> 01:20:16.964
John Kennedy: How do you keep it all so rhythmic?

01:20:16.964 –> 01:20:29.264
Jamie: It’s just, so for that, with that synth thing, I had just dragged it so that it all felt in groove enough with the sample.

01:20:29.264 –> 01:20:42.064
Jamie: I tried to keep the groove of this original playing on the sample as untouched as possible because it was so good already, and then spliced everything into that groove as close to as possible.

01:20:42.064 –> 01:20:44.744
Jamie: But again, a lot of it was just happy accidents.

01:20:44.744 –> 01:20:45.284
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:20:45.284 –> 01:20:48.864
Jamie: The pre-chorus, even though it’s the shortest part of the song, seems to have the most stuff in it.

01:20:49.224 –> 01:20:55.244
Jamie: But this also, just a tiny layer really adds to the emotion of that.

01:21:03.437 –> 01:21:07.197
Jamie: So yeah, those are really the three building blocks of the song.

01:21:07.197 –> 01:21:11.357
Jamie: And Robin came in and it all started to make sense.

01:21:11.357 –> 01:21:12.217
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:21:12.217 –> 01:21:15.857
John Kennedy: I mean, Robin’s a writer and producer herself.

01:21:15.857 –> 01:21:18.817
John Kennedy: Would she offer opinion or did she…?

01:21:18.817 –> 01:21:19.897
John Kennedy: Oh, yeah.

01:21:19.897 –> 01:21:26.097
Jamie: I mean, we started out by texting, but then I went to Stockholm to work with her at her studio.

01:21:26.157 –> 01:21:38.097
Jamie: She’s got this amazing, like, it literally feels like a cave right in the middle of Stockholm with this guy, Klaus, who’s her producer and has worked on all of her records.

01:21:38.097 –> 01:21:41.537
Jamie: And he’s great, really, really good at what he does.

01:21:41.537 –> 01:21:47.077
Jamie: And he was like, he introduced actually this little part here in the second verse.

01:21:47.077 –> 01:21:50.557
Jamie: It was his idea to add this Klaus pad.

01:21:50.557 –> 01:21:51.677
John Kennedy: Klaus pad, I love that.

01:21:53.497 –> 01:21:57.317
Jamie: And it’s just, again, it’s referencing all that French House type stuff.

01:22:09.042 –> 01:22:10.822
Jamie: And again, it just elevated the track.

01:22:10.822 –> 01:22:15.502
Jamie: Just this one stamp just took it again into that, just referencing that world enough, I think.

01:22:15.502 –> 01:22:30.622
John Kennedy: Yeah, for me, it seems nice talking about that French house period because Soho was where I would come to buy a lot of those 12 inches on roulette or whatever, because there were so many different dance shops around here that you would go from one to another.

01:22:30.622 –> 01:22:37.102
John Kennedy: And there was such a point where one new 12 inch would come out after another over a series.

01:22:37.202 –> 01:22:41.942
John Kennedy: So you’re kind of going there over a few days to see what had come through now, which is really exciting.

01:22:41.942 –> 01:22:42.802
Jamie: That’s good.

01:22:42.802 –> 01:22:45.122
John Kennedy: And what else is going on in life?

01:22:45.162 –> 01:22:48.642
John Kennedy: No, it’s interesting because the lyric is so powerful, isn’t it?

01:22:48.642 –> 01:22:51.642
John Kennedy: And Robin’s slant on it, no.

01:22:51.642 –> 01:22:56.242
John Kennedy: But she also adds in elements that don’t make it cheesy.

01:22:56.242 –> 01:23:10.542
John Kennedy: If I can use that phrase, because I wouldn’t denigrate anything she did, but because on the one hand, you’re giving me life, but then there’s all these slightly darker elements or kind of surprising elements, which are nice.

01:23:10.542 –> 01:23:11.382
Jamie: Yeah, totally.

01:23:11.382 –> 01:23:24.322
Jamie: I mean, she was the one who kind of wanted to highlight the sample as the chorus rather than write something that fitted lyrically or rhythmically over the top.

01:23:24.322 –> 01:23:31.062
Jamie: She tried doing that stuff and then she just thought that the horn sample was so good, it like deserved its own space.

01:23:31.062 –> 01:23:34.802
Jamie: So we made the chorus just basically on the one.

01:23:34.802 –> 01:23:36.322
Jamie: You’re giving me life.

01:23:36.322 –> 01:23:40.262
Jamie: So that it left the rest of the chorus to breathe.

01:23:40.262 –> 01:23:42.282
Jamie: And then the verses would be much more busy.

01:23:42.282 –> 01:23:49.682
Jamie: And that was a great shout from her because there were versions that I’d had before where there was just so much going on because I sort of overcooked it.

01:23:49.682 –> 01:23:50.982
Jamie: Yeah.

01:23:51.182 –> 01:23:56.642
John Kennedy: And from that first voice note that she sent you, so you went to Stockholm for her to do her vocal properly?

01:23:58.502 –> 01:24:02.982
Jamie: And also to write more stuff, like to write the pre-choruses.

01:24:02.982 –> 01:24:08.562
Jamie: Because at that point, I think there were various versions of a chorus that she’d sent me.

01:24:08.562 –> 01:24:09.822
Jamie: The verses were nailed in.

01:24:09.822 –> 01:24:16.602
Jamie: She’d absolutely nailed that because that was kind of the bit that I’d left space for on the instrumental that I sent to her.

01:24:16.602 –> 01:24:23.442
Jamie: And then this pre-chorus thing I’d made in between her sending me that and me going to Stockholm.

01:24:23.442 –> 01:24:25.682
Jamie: And we tried lots of different ideas on that.

01:24:25.862 –> 01:24:40.782
Jamie: And then what we landed on was really fun, because it was essentially just us messing around in the studio and sort of she was like just reading off fun things that her and her friends would say like in the club.

01:24:40.782 –> 01:24:44.422
Jamie: There’s probably a take here of us just like sitting there laughing.

01:24:44.422 –> 01:24:45.242
Jamie: It was really fun.

01:24:45.242 –> 01:24:46.342
Jamie: Is this the stuff?

01:24:46.342 –> 01:24:47.482
Jamie: This is giving me life.

01:24:48.782 –> 01:24:50.642
Jamie: Yeah, it’s all this stuff.

01:25:21.362 –> 01:25:24.322
Jamie: And we were just sitting in there like, you’re giving me work of shame.

01:25:24.322 –> 01:25:28.742
Jamie: With it on loop, her coming up with all these different, you’re giving me lines.

01:25:29.782 –> 01:25:30.682
Jamie: And it was really fun.

01:25:30.702 –> 01:25:35.322
Jamie: It was like just, it was kind of towards the end of finishing all the vocals.

01:25:35.322 –> 01:25:38.362
Jamie: You’re giving me first kiss.

01:25:38.362 –> 01:25:40.242
Jamie: Very cathartic way to end the session.

01:25:40.242 –> 01:25:40.742
Jamie: Yeah.

01:25:40.742 –> 01:25:42.422
John Kennedy: And was the track playing at the same time?

01:25:42.422 –> 01:25:44.002
John Kennedy: Or is this more conversational?

01:25:44.002 –> 01:25:45.222
Jamie: She was like sitting on the floor.

01:25:45.222 –> 01:25:45.542
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:25:45.542 –> 01:25:47.862
Jamie: With just a mic in the hand.

01:25:47.922 –> 01:25:51.742
Jamie: And yeah, we were having a conversation in between while the track was going on.

01:25:51.742 –> 01:25:52.922
Jamie: Then she came up with more ones.

01:25:52.922 –> 01:25:56.342
Jamie: And that was a really nice, lovely moment.

01:25:56.342 –> 01:25:59.322
Jamie: She’s so good at everything.

01:25:59.322 –> 01:26:08.682
Jamie: And also so wise about just the longevity of doing this job and what it takes and how sometimes it’s difficult.

01:26:08.682 –> 01:26:12.482
Jamie: And she’s definitely given me a lot of really good advice.

01:26:12.482 –> 01:26:12.922
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:26:12.922 –> 01:26:16.322
John Kennedy: That’s great to have that person in your life in a way.

01:26:16.482 –> 01:26:26.222
John Kennedy: And it’s great the way that you’ve been able to make these friends over time and be able to call on them and you can help each other.

01:26:26.222 –> 01:26:29.442
John Kennedy: You’re painting a picture of a lovely community here.

01:26:29.442 –> 01:26:30.582
Jamie: Yeah, it’s nice.

01:26:30.582 –> 01:26:33.982
Jamie: I mean, I don’t do that much collaborating.

01:26:33.982 –> 01:26:45.702
Jamie: So when I do, it’s really with people that I love, like Robin Oliver or Robin or a few others like Kelsey Lu or the Avalanches that I grew up listening to.

01:26:45.702 –> 01:26:51.142
Jamie: Because I think what I do best is being on my own, like getting things right.

01:26:51.142 –> 01:26:55.702
Jamie: So when I have to put myself out of my comfort zone, it’s got to be for something that’s really special.

01:26:55.702 –> 01:26:56.682
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:26:56.942 –> 01:26:58.442
John Kennedy: What else do we need to hear?

01:26:58.442 –> 01:27:00.582
John Kennedy: It’s all those messy versions you said.

01:27:00.582 –> 01:27:02.162
John Kennedy: Do you have any of those?

01:27:02.162 –> 01:27:05.302
John Kennedy: I’m not saying you have to play them.

01:27:05.302 –> 01:27:06.262
Jamie: I might do.

01:27:07.962 –> 01:27:11.122
Jamie: There’s a version with Romy, but I don’t think she’d want me to play.

01:27:11.122 –> 01:27:11.762
John Kennedy: Yeah, sure.

01:27:11.762 –> 01:27:13.742
John Kennedy: That’s fair enough.

01:27:13.742 –> 01:27:16.022
John Kennedy: We have some more questions from Patreon.

01:27:16.022 –> 01:27:19.182
John Kennedy: We also have some questions that we ask everybody who comes on Tape Notes.

01:27:19.182 –> 01:27:26.562
John Kennedy: Maybe we should have a blast of the master of the end of life, maybe, just to round this up, and then we can get into some of those.

01:27:26.562 –> 01:27:27.402
Jamie: Sure.

01:27:27.402 –> 01:27:29.102
John Kennedy: What section should we hear?

01:27:29.102 –> 01:27:30.862
Jamie: I did just find this old version.

01:27:30.862 –> 01:27:32.542
Jamie: Let’s see if it sounds any different.

01:27:32.542 –> 01:27:33.822
Jamie: I don’t know how old this version is.

01:27:37.662 –> 01:27:39.382
Jamie: This has a different vocal sample on it.

01:27:39.382 –> 01:27:39.642
John Kennedy: Right.

01:27:55.442 –> 01:27:56.462
John Kennedy: So, whose voice is that?

01:27:56.462 –> 01:27:57.722
John Kennedy: Just a sample of a…

01:27:57.722 –> 01:28:00.742
Jamie: It’s Temptations, I think.

01:28:00.742 –> 01:28:00.962
John Kennedy: Right.

01:28:09.182 –> 01:28:09.462
Jamie: But then…

01:28:13.422 –> 01:28:15.902
Jamie: Lots of different ideas, just me experimenting.

01:28:15.902 –> 01:28:16.062
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:28:16.505 –> 01:28:22.465
Jamie: And that the synth sound is in there, and the verse as well, that ended up being the pre-chorus.

01:28:22.465 –> 01:28:25.125
Jamie: Yeah, it’s interesting to hear that back for me as well.

01:28:25.125 –> 01:28:25.805
Jamie: It’s been a while.

01:28:25.805 –> 01:28:27.185
John Kennedy: Yeah, amazing.

01:28:27.185 –> 01:28:31.105
John Kennedy: A little window into your process, as this whole thing is.

01:28:31.105 –> 01:28:34.405
John Kennedy: Right, let me ask you some more questions.

01:28:34.405 –> 01:28:41.745
John Kennedy: We had this nice one from Nathan M, who says, my son Julian has been playing drums for several years and recently began doing some production.

01:28:41.745 –> 01:28:48.825
John Kennedy: He’s wondering if Jamie plays drums at all these days and how being a drummer has influenced his approach to production.

01:28:48.825 –> 01:28:49.885
Jamie: I do play drums.

01:28:49.885 –> 01:29:04.265
Jamie: I have drums at home and I have a Tascam 8-track reel to reel to record the drums in, which really makes them sound much better than just going straight in digitally, especially if you drive it against the tape.

01:29:04.265 –> 01:29:05.865
John Kennedy: So that’s a reel to reel quarter inch tape.

01:29:06.485 –> 01:29:10.245
John Kennedy: So you will sit at your drum kit and play and record it.

01:29:10.245 –> 01:29:10.625
Jamie: Yeah.

01:29:10.625 –> 01:29:11.285
Jamie: Right.

01:29:11.285 –> 01:29:16.485
Jamie: Also, the great thing about it is the tempo change on the tape, which tightens everything up.

01:29:16.525 –> 01:29:20.045
Jamie: As soon as you turn it up just a little bit, it makes you sound like a much better drummer.

01:29:20.045 –> 01:29:20.885
John Kennedy: Right.

01:29:20.885 –> 01:29:25.765
John Kennedy: Then you would play that into your laptop or whatever, record that, and then maybe start chopping that up.

01:29:26.065 –> 01:29:27.745
Jamie: Yeah, definitely.

01:29:27.745 –> 01:29:36.865
Jamie: I’ve been working with the band on some new stuff and doing live drumming on it, which is really fun because it’s always been very electronic.

01:29:36.865 –> 01:29:41.305
Jamie: So maybe adding some of that in the, who knows, early days.

01:29:41.305 –> 01:29:42.325
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:29:42.325 –> 01:29:46.925
John Kennedy: Well, that would have been one of my questions about that hint of working with the band, with the XX.

01:29:46.925 –> 01:29:50.585
John Kennedy: Obviously, we’re excited about that prospect.

01:29:50.585 –> 01:29:52.045
John Kennedy: That’s brilliant.

01:29:52.045 –> 01:29:57.625
John Kennedy: I’m not sure how to pronounce this person’s name, D-R-E-U-X.

01:29:57.625 –> 01:30:01.245
John Kennedy: So that’s either D-R or D-R-U, I don’t know.

01:30:01.245 –> 01:30:07.025
John Kennedy: How do you usually go about finding vocal samples, thinking about all under one roof raving, waited all night.

01:30:07.025 –> 01:30:10.645
John Kennedy: I mean, it sounds like you’re searching all the time, or just things just pop out.

01:30:10.645 –> 01:30:11.665
Jamie: Yeah.

01:30:11.665 –> 01:30:20.605
Jamie: I mean, all under one roof raving was a bit different because it was kind of based around Mark Leckie’s fear which he made me hardcore piece of art.

01:30:20.605 –> 01:30:27.005
Jamie: And I went to meet Mark in the pub and just ask him about it, and ask him if it was okay.

01:30:27.005 –> 01:30:31.085
Jamie: And he’s super inspiring, lovely dude.

01:30:31.085 –> 01:30:40.485
Jamie: And so then I started building the world of samples in that song around the basis of that, and actually a sample from Spaced, that TV series.

01:30:40.485 –> 01:30:40.965
John Kennedy: Right.

01:30:40.965 –> 01:30:46.745
Jamie: But yeah, it was kind of I was drawing specifically, much more specifically for that song than most of the time.

01:30:47.125 –> 01:30:48.145
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:30:48.145 –> 01:30:53.425
John Kennedy: Thilo, Tylo, Acorn, your tracks are so versatile, but always with a clear signature.

01:30:53.425 –> 01:30:55.925
John Kennedy: How do you manage to create a common thread in your work?

01:30:55.925 –> 01:30:58.105
John Kennedy: Is that something you think about?

01:30:58.105 –> 01:31:04.825
John Kennedy: Which is an interesting thing, because when we hear a Jamie XX track on the radio or at a club or, you know, they are identifiable.

01:31:04.825 –> 01:31:07.385
John Kennedy: Now, and obviously you want to be identifiable.

01:31:07.385 –> 01:31:09.685
John Kennedy: How do you make them identifiable?

01:31:09.685 –> 01:31:11.945
Jamie: I really don’t try.

01:31:11.945 –> 01:31:19.885
Jamie: Maybe it’s that same following that gut feeling, but whenever somebody says that to me, I find it, I just can’t understand it.

01:31:19.885 –> 01:31:22.525
Jamie: But I’m glad that they are identifiable.

01:31:22.525 –> 01:31:26.605
Jamie: But it’s definitely, I don’t think it’s something you can do with intention.

01:31:26.605 –> 01:31:35.165
Jamie: I guess if you make music for as long as I have been now, it kind of naturally becomes, it all kind of sits in the same bubble, maybe.

01:31:35.165 –> 01:31:38.425
Jamie: But I definitely don’t set out with a specific sound.

01:31:38.425 –> 01:31:39.065
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:31:39.065 –> 01:31:41.445
John Kennedy: But the artist is a human being.

01:31:42.245 –> 01:31:47.325
John Kennedy: And often their work will reflect their own individual humanity, I guess.

01:31:47.325 –> 01:31:49.225
Jamie: Yeah, I suppose so.

01:31:49.225 –> 01:31:59.145
John Kennedy: Hello to Paolo Valone who says, when approaching producing a new idea, do you look at it more from an electronic music producer perspective or more of a band production perspective?

01:31:59.145 –> 01:32:01.045
John Kennedy: Is there a difference?

01:32:01.045 –> 01:32:02.845
Jamie: There is a difference.

01:32:02.845 –> 01:32:05.885
Jamie: Mostly, it’s just about the people that are around you.

01:32:06.605 –> 01:32:19.465
Jamie: Like, if I’m with the band looking at producing it, I’m discussing it all in depth and telling them what I want to do because it’s a lot easier than doing it and then they’re not liking it.

01:32:19.465 –> 01:32:26.725
Jamie: So like I try and set out sort of my vision for this piece of music and then we’ll discuss it and I’ll show them what I mean.

01:32:26.785 –> 01:32:40.565
Jamie: And it will like be very democratic and a complete different way of making music to how I make music on my own, which is, as you’ve seen, just kind of a mess that sometimes works out.

01:32:40.565 –> 01:32:42.425
John Kennedy: Well, a lot of hard work, I would say.

01:32:42.425 –> 01:32:43.205
John Kennedy: Yes.

01:32:43.205 –> 01:32:54.005
John Kennedy: Experimentation and a lot of hard work and pursuing something, not giving up and maybe putting something to one side, leaving it for a while, letting some other things go on in your life and then coming back to it.

01:32:54.865 –> 01:32:57.565
John Kennedy: It seems like an awful lot of hard work to me.

01:32:57.565 –> 01:33:01.285
John Kennedy: Harry Hayes asks, I believe you are a fellow Logic user.

01:33:01.285 –> 01:33:07.185
John Kennedy: What are some of your favorite stock Logic plugins and synths, if any?

01:33:07.185 –> 01:33:15.885
Jamie: I use loads of the stock ones because that’s kind of, I learned on Logic or actually on GarageBand when I was really small.

01:33:15.885 –> 01:33:17.145
Jamie: I still use all the old ones.

01:33:18.065 –> 01:33:24.745
Jamie: The ES 2 synth, I think, is probably the best one.

01:33:24.745 –> 01:33:46.305
Jamie: It’s really good for making chords that you wouldn’t make by playing using a keyboard, because you just adjust these three different oscillators, especially if you’ve just written a very simple MIDI pattern with single notes, you can then create really interesting chords by changing the position of these oscillators for each note.

01:33:47.165 –> 01:33:54.005
Jamie: It just comes up with, again, unexpected fun ideas that wouldn’t come out of the brain normally.

01:33:54.005 –> 01:33:55.225
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:33:55.225 –> 01:33:59.325
John Kennedy: Charlie C asks, I love to experiment with new plugins.

01:33:59.325 –> 01:34:01.605
John Kennedy: I’ve been trying to dig into SoundToys ones at the moment.

01:34:01.605 –> 01:34:06.045
John Kennedy: Any tips or favorites that you use, secrets you can show.

01:34:06.085 –> 01:34:07.365
John Kennedy: They’re always after the secrets, Charlie.

01:34:07.365 –> 01:34:08.405
Jamie: Yeah.

01:34:08.405 –> 01:34:13.005
Jamie: Well, I think I’ve shown a couple of my secrets on this video.

01:34:13.005 –> 01:34:16.265
Jamie: That Morph thing is really fun.

01:34:16.605 –> 01:34:20.485
Jamie: You can get a lot of interesting texture out of it.

01:34:20.485 –> 01:34:23.245
Jamie: It’s specifically SoundToys stuff.

01:34:23.245 –> 01:34:29.565
Jamie: I use the Crystallizer without the pitching quite a lot now because it has a very widening delay.

01:34:29.565 –> 01:34:44.165
Jamie: But I’ve noticed that especially a lot of like Tech House, this sound has, when you pitch things up on the delay, it has crept into a lot of music and it’s starting to sound quite generic, which is what happens with all tech.

01:34:44.165 –> 01:34:46.165
Jamie: It’s what happened with the 808.

01:34:46.165 –> 01:34:49.345
Jamie: Everything has its moment and then things have to move on.

01:34:49.345 –> 01:34:56.345
Jamie: But the sound of a plug-in or the sound of a drum machine become the sound of a summer sometimes.

01:34:57.205 –> 01:35:00.165
Jamie: And I try and avoid being on that bandwagon.

01:35:00.165 –> 01:35:01.105
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:35:01.105 –> 01:35:14.685
John Kennedy: That kind of leads nicely into one of the questions that we ask everybody who comes on Tape Notes, which is about tech and equipment and whether there’s something that you couldn’t live or work without, something that’s so dear to you.

01:35:14.685 –> 01:35:17.525
Jamie: I mean, I guess it’s got to be the laptop.

01:35:17.525 –> 01:35:18.365
Jamie: Does that count?

01:35:18.365 –> 01:35:19.165
John Kennedy: Yeah, it does.

01:35:19.165 –> 01:35:20.365
John Kennedy: Many people cite the laptop.

01:35:20.365 –> 01:35:24.325
John Kennedy: I mean, you mentioned the Oberheim earlier as being your favorite.

01:35:24.685 –> 01:35:31.005
Jamie: I mean, I love all of the stuff in here, especially the Oberheim, so fun to play on.

01:35:31.005 –> 01:35:36.245
Jamie: But looking at Logic is like I’m not looking at anything.

01:35:36.245 –> 01:35:42.025
Jamie: It’s literally almost meditative for me because I can do everything without thinking about it.

01:35:42.025 –> 01:35:48.805
Jamie: All the shortcuts and make music in a way where it’s not like I’m using a screen at all.

01:35:48.805 –> 01:35:51.825
Jamie: It’s just like a sort of an extended part of my brain.

01:35:51.865 –> 01:35:54.085
Jamie: Yeah, which is very useful.

01:35:54.085 –> 01:35:56.725
Jamie: And I’m like, very glad that I have that.

01:35:56.725 –> 01:35:58.405
Jamie: I don’t really want to switch to anything else.

01:35:58.405 –> 01:36:00.905
Jamie: All this other stuff sounds lovely.

01:36:00.905 –> 01:36:04.665
Jamie: It’s very fancy and you can make really nice things on it.

01:36:04.665 –> 01:36:07.645
Jamie: But I couldn’t do any of it without having that connection with this.

01:36:07.645 –> 01:36:08.045
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:36:08.045 –> 01:36:08.265
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:36:08.265 –> 01:36:13.165
John Kennedy: You just want to get it to make the sound and get the sound into logic.

01:36:13.165 –> 01:36:24.625
John Kennedy: The other question we ask everybody is about advice, Jamie, whether you have been given advice along the way, you mentioned the wisdom of Robin, or you’ve learned some lessons that you would share with other people.

01:36:26.065 –> 01:36:27.085
Jamie: Yeah.

01:36:27.085 –> 01:36:35.105
Jamie: I think that being aware that it’s a difficult job and it’s not meant to be fun all the time.

01:36:35.105 –> 01:36:39.545
Jamie: In fact, quite a lot of times not, even though it’s perceived obviously it is a great job.

01:36:39.545 –> 01:36:41.205
Jamie: It’s a dream job.

01:36:41.205 –> 01:36:43.425
Jamie: I’m very lucky to be able to do it.

01:36:43.425 –> 01:36:47.485
Jamie: I sometimes found myself being upset that I wasn’t enjoying it.

01:36:48.225 –> 01:37:04.605
Jamie: But as soon as you understand that you’re not meant to be enjoying it all the time and there’s sometimes really hard work, then the hard work becomes manageable and almost enjoyable in a way because it’s just something that you got to do.

01:37:04.605 –> 01:37:08.605
Jamie: That’s definitely what I learned in making this album like and working with Robin.

01:37:08.605 –> 01:37:15.265
Jamie: She definitely imparted that advice was to kind of, it’s just be a bit more realistic about what it is.

01:37:16.685 –> 01:37:19.565
Jamie: And also do loads of gigs is my other advice.

01:37:19.565 –> 01:37:26.125
Jamie: Just do as many gigs as you possibly can because I learned so much from doing that, especially the ones that weren’t good.

01:37:26.125 –> 01:37:29.525
John Kennedy: And that’s both with the band and solo.

01:37:29.525 –> 01:37:31.305
John Kennedy: So just put yourself out there.

01:37:31.305 –> 01:37:35.545
John Kennedy: Every situation will challenge you and create a response.

01:37:35.545 –> 01:37:36.265
Jamie: Totally.

01:37:36.265 –> 01:37:38.325
Jamie: And you’ll meet people in the scene.

01:37:38.325 –> 01:37:44.665
Jamie: And again, you’ll have some bad experiences, but it will all build into making a much more rounded artist.

01:37:45.025 –> 01:37:45.505
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:37:45.505 –> 01:37:45.945
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:37:45.945 –> 01:37:46.745
John Kennedy: Really interesting.

01:37:46.745 –> 01:37:51.665
John Kennedy: And I guess you end up with that exchange, you get some information, some tips.

01:37:51.665 –> 01:37:53.465
John Kennedy: And yeah, that’s brilliant.

01:37:53.465 –> 01:37:54.145
John Kennedy: Fascinating.

01:37:54.145 –> 01:37:59.525
John Kennedy: Thank you so much, Jamie, for your time and for allowing us to come in to your space.

01:37:59.525 –> 01:38:01.845
John Kennedy: Now, it’s quite a private space, really, this studio.

01:38:01.845 –> 01:38:06.965
John Kennedy: It’s not like a normal studio where, no, there are other people who work in the studio.

01:38:06.965 –> 01:38:12.785
John Kennedy: This is your home or one of your homes, really, with your very private setup of all this equipment.

01:38:13.745 –> 01:38:17.185
John Kennedy: And, you know, it’s a privilege and an honor to be able to come here.

01:38:17.185 –> 01:38:19.665
John Kennedy: And exciting too, because it’s a thrill.

01:38:19.665 –> 01:38:26.765
John Kennedy: I mean, even if you just lived here and there was just a bed and a couch, it would be a thrill to be able to be eight floors up in central London.

01:38:26.765 –> 01:38:28.765
John Kennedy: And long may it continue to inspire you.

01:38:28.765 –> 01:38:29.325
Jamie: Thanks so much.

01:38:29.325 –> 01:38:33.465
Jamie: It’s been a real pleasure talking about this stuff that I never talked to anybody about.

01:38:33.465 –> 01:38:34.285
Jamie: So thanks.

01:38:34.285 –> 01:38:35.365
John Kennedy: Thank you very much, Jamie.

01:38:35.365 –> 01:38:38.405
John Kennedy: I think we should play one more song from In Waves.

01:38:38.405 –> 01:38:39.505
John Kennedy: Your choice.

01:38:39.505 –> 01:38:40.405
John Kennedy: What should we go for?

01:38:40.525 –> 01:38:44.065
John Kennedy: You recently put out a Deluxe version which featured other songs.

01:38:44.065 –> 01:38:47.285
John Kennedy: Were those songs created at the same time, presumably?

01:38:47.285 –> 01:38:50.265
Jamie: Yeah, they were created at the same time.

01:38:50.265 –> 01:38:54.885
Jamie: But I wanted to make the album feel like an album that you want to listen to front to back.

01:38:54.885 –> 01:38:56.645
Jamie: And they didn’t fit in that.

01:38:56.645 –> 01:38:58.185
Jamie: So they came out as the Deluxe.

01:38:58.185 –> 01:38:59.105
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:38:59.105 –> 01:39:05.665
Jamie: I guess we can play Falling Together as the last track on the album.

01:39:05.665 –> 01:39:06.105
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:39:06.105 –> 01:39:08.205
John Kennedy: Featuring Una Doherty.

01:39:08.205 –> 01:39:08.585
John Kennedy: Okay.

01:39:08.585 –> 01:39:09.005
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:39:09.005 –> 01:39:09.865
John Kennedy: Thank you so much, Jamie.

01:39:10.085 –> 01:39:10.605
Jamie: Thanks.

01:39:10.605 –> 01:39:12.045
John Kennedy: And here is Falling Together.

01:39:12.045 –> 01:39:13.805
John Kennedy: It’s Jamie XX.

01:39:17.845 –> 01:39:18.805
John Kennedy: Thank you for listening.

01:39:18.805 –> 01:39:23.205
John Kennedy: And in particular, thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on Patreon.

01:39:23.205 –> 01:39:27.705
John Kennedy: I’m just one part of the team that brings you Tape Notes and it relies on your support.

01:39:27.705 –> 01:39:35.685
John Kennedy: Access to Patreon includes the full length videos of new episodes where possible, ad free episodes and detailed gear lists among many other things.

01:39:35.685 –> 01:39:39.065
John Kennedy: If you’d like to join, head to the link on our socials or website.

01:39:39.525 –> 01:39:48.185
John Kennedy: For pictures, highlight clips and behind-the-scenes content, head to our Instagram or YouTube channel and on Discord, you can join the growing Tape Notes community.

01:39:48.185 –> 01:39:49.725
John Kennedy: Once again, thank you for listening.

01:39:49.725 –> 01:39:51.005
John Kennedy: Until next time, goodbye.