Full Transcript:

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John Kennedy: Hello, and welcome to Tape Notes.

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John Kennedy: We’re going to cut to the chase this time.

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John Kennedy: Thanks to our partners at Tape It, the iPhone recording app for musicians, and to all of our subscribers on Patreon for supporting this episode.

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John Kennedy: To watch the full video episode, head to patreon.com/tapenotes.

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John Kennedy: Hello and welcome to Tape Notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

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John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

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John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tape Notes is Porter Robinson to talk about how he wrote, recorded, and produced the album Smile.

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John Kennedy: Porter Robinson is an American producer, songwriter, and DJ.

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John Kennedy: Entirely self-taught, Porter began his journey into music production at just 12 years old, posting his music online throughout his teens.

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John Kennedy: In 2010, aged 18, he released his breakout single, Say My Name, as well as topping Beatport’s electro house chart.

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John Kennedy: The record led to him signing with Skrillex’s label, Owsler, and he became the label’s first official release with the EP, Spitfire.

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John Kennedy: Over the next few years, Porter released standout tracks like Language and Easy, both earning chart success and going gold.

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John Kennedy: He also quickly established himself as a dynamic live performer touring across North America and Europe and sharing stages with artists like Skrillex, Tiësto and Deadmau5.

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John Kennedy: Since his early rise to success, Porter has released three studio albums and was nominated for a Grammy in 2019 for his track Ghost Voices.

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John Kennedy: His most recent album, Smile, blends pop punk, early 2000s rave and hyper-pop influences, all while bringing vocal performances and lyrics to the forefront of the production.

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John Kennedy: Today, I’m at home in South London and I’m joined remotely by Porter from his home studio in North Carolina and what better way to start than by hearing something from the record.

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John Kennedy: This is Knock Yourself Out.

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John Kennedy: It is Knock Yourself Out by Porter Robinson from the album Smile, and I’m very pleased to say that right now, I am connected to Porter Robinson.

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John Kennedy: Hello, Porter, how are you?

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Porter Robinson: Hey, great, great.

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Porter Robinson: How are you?

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John Kennedy: I’m all right, thank you.

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John Kennedy: So I understand you’re at home in North Carolina, is that right?

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Porter Robinson: Yeah.

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John Kennedy: Yeah.

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Porter Robinson: I’m home after like good seven months of tour.

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John Kennedy: Excellent.

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John Kennedy: So getting some well-earned rest and recreation, I hope.

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John Kennedy: Yeah.

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Porter Robinson: I mean, that was the thing I looked forward to most.

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Porter Robinson: Me and my wife are both real gamers and she’d be like, don’t worry baby, you’ll be home in a week.

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Porter Robinson: We can play League of Legends every night.

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Porter Robinson: We’ve done exactly that.

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John Kennedy: That’s fantastic.

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John Kennedy: So we’re going to be talking about a number of songs on the Smile album, and we’re very pleased to have you because we’ve had a massive response and loads of people requesting that we get Porter Robinson on Tape Notes.

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John Kennedy: So I’m really pleased that you’re here.

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John Kennedy: I guess in a way, we should get some context for the album because Smile appeared just last year, and I’ve heard you describe it as your guitar album.

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John Kennedy: And I wonder what was the reasoning behind that?

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Porter Robinson: Well, the album before it was a really kind of soft and sweet album, and it was one that I think really captured who I am in a real way.

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Porter Robinson: And I wanted to make a record that kind of went against my nature.

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Porter Robinson: I wanted to make something that was really loud and was really colorful, and had a lot of bravado and was like totally fearless.

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Porter Robinson: I wanted to see what it would feel like if I tried to like in my music, push against what I see as my own weaknesses.

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Porter Robinson: And that’s where the guitar came in, I guess.

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Porter Robinson: I wanted to like embody the rock star cliche as a part of it.

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Porter Robinson: Like I was and I still am like not awesome at guitar.

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Porter Robinson: I think I picked up for the very first time like a year before I started the record and just learned a couple of chords in G.

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Porter Robinson: And I just felt like it felt like such a superpower, you know?

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Porter Robinson: I mean, having written music for over a decade without ever having touched a guitar, suddenly picking up the greatest songwriting tool of all time, it opened the portal to God for me, you know?

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Porter Robinson: Like my brain just went wide open as soon as I touched it.

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Porter Robinson: So yeah, it’s like it’s a guitar album in the sense that I’m embodying guitar energy.

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John Kennedy: Yes.

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John Kennedy: I love the idea that you picked up an instrument you hadn’t ever used before and that was a stepping stone to maybe unlocking some new creativity and getting you excited about making music with this tool that you hadn’t been able to utilize before.

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John Kennedy: But it’s great because you don’t have any of the baggage that might have come with having already played that instrument.

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Porter Robinson: Yeah, it was something that was completely free of context for me.

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Porter Robinson: I didn’t know how to record it properly.

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Porter Robinson: I did like the moment that I realized that most guitars are panned stereo left and right was like a revelation for me.

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Porter Robinson: The first few demos, I didn’t do that and I didn’t really look into how any of this stuff was done.

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Porter Robinson: I wanted to approach it as differently from other people as possible.

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Porter Robinson: Or maybe rather, I wanted to just learn it in my own way.

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Porter Robinson: Things that were total fundamentals for others, felt like a real breakthrough for me.

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John Kennedy: Of course, that creates energy in itself, doesn’t it?

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John Kennedy: Energy and excitement and it motivates you and spurs you forward.

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Porter Robinson: Absolutely.

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Porter Robinson: The funny thing about this album is even though I was trying to make this bravado album that touched on the subjects of fame and seeking approval, I think it’s actually rivals nurture for being the most sensitive Porter record.

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Porter Robinson: Because as I was learning the guitar and learning to write songs, I discovered the other side of it, which is like emo and singer-songwriter guitar ballads.

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Porter Robinson: It was like having written music exclusively into a digital audio workstation before and sometimes sitting at piano.

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Porter Robinson: The revelation of the guitar is the fact that you have, and I really think about music in terms of chords.

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Porter Robinson: So you have your orchestra in the left hand, you have your chords there and you have your drum kit on the right hand.

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Porter Robinson: All of the rhythm is there and that’s all you need to imagine a song.

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Porter Robinson: I think I even fell in love with, again, some of my older habits via the guitar.

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Porter Robinson: Like I wanted to make an album that was all fun and no sensitivity, and with a song like Is There Really No Happiness or Russian Roulette or Easier To Love You, Everything To Me, they’re among my most vulnerable songs.

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Porter Robinson: And that’s expressly what I wanted to avoid on this album.

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Porter Robinson: So there’s this marriage, it’s half character bravado and half me.

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John Kennedy: Yeah, maybe you just can’t help yourself, Porter.

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John Kennedy: Maybe you just can’t help sharing your inner turmoil with us, but that’s one of the reasons why we love it so much.

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John Kennedy: The first song we’re going to look at is Cheerleader.

00:08:01.853 –> 00:08:06.813
John Kennedy: So if we could have a blast of the master, then we can find out how you came to create it.

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John Kennedy: Yeah.

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John Kennedy: So a little taste of The Master of Cheerleader by Porter Robinson.

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John Kennedy: So where did this one start then, Porter?

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John Kennedy: At what point, so after picking up the guitar as a challenge in a way to yourself, at what point did Cheerleader emerge?

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Porter Robinson: Yeah, well, I was diving into the sort of depths of, I guess like Mid-Aughts, 2010s, kind of MySpace adjacent Emo and Warped Tour music for the first time in my life.

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Porter Robinson: I think a lot of my music tends to begin with a bit of a nostalgia framing.

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Porter Robinson: I find that nostalgia and the sort of fondness and warmth that comes with a memory makes me feel like something is so good that I have to make something that captures the feeling.

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Porter Robinson: Like I think a thing that motivates me as an artist is when something is so good that I just, the only way for me to get closer to it is to create it.

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Porter Robinson: If there’s a song that I love so much, it’s like I can enjoy it only so much unless I’ve made something that makes me feel immersed in it.

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Porter Robinson: The thing that makes me feel immersed in it is making something like it, right?

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Porter Robinson: But weirdly, this genre of music, I wasn’t really pilled on rock music much at all.

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Porter Robinson: I grew up as a sort of like a Daft Punk kid and was really into electronic music my entire life.

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Porter Robinson: And so this wasn’t like a direct nostalgia for me.

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Porter Robinson: It was actually me discovering a lot of rock music for the first time.

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Porter Robinson: And people always think I’m lying when I tell this story, but I remember going to karaoke with some friends and people singing Mr.

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Porter Robinson: Brightside and me going like, what this song is amazing.

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Porter Robinson: What is this?

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Porter Robinson: Like, I have to know who the artist is.

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Porter Robinson: And I will say that Mr.

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Porter Robinson: Brightside is less universal in the US than it is in the UK.

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Porter Robinson: But I didn’t know the killers.

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Porter Robinson: The closest I had ever really gotten in my electronic music journey was that I really loved Phoenix and I really loved Tudor Cinema Club.

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Porter Robinson: And I think that had that, like, my son Kitsune, adjacent French thing to it.

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Porter Robinson: And obviously Tudor, they’re Irish, but like they were on those Kitsune compilations and stuff like that.

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Porter Robinson: So it touched my electronic music world.

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Porter Robinson: But one of the things that I loved so much about that music was the mix of sounds that are extremely basic, things that are just like your straight four chord songs with a bit of like teenage energy.

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Porter Robinson: I thought that that combination has so much vitality if the energy is right.

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Porter Robinson: You know, if you’re using really basic sounds and you’re using kind of four chords and there’s no energy there, then I think it feels it falls a bit flat and feels like stock music.

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Porter Robinson: But I think one of the amazing things about teenage music is that it’s just the intensity is turned up to the max.

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Porter Robinson: And I wanted to make a record that felt like someone’s debut.

00:11:53.593 –> 00:11:56.113
Porter Robinson: You know, I wanted my third album to feel like a debut.

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Porter Robinson: So I just kind of cranked the distortion up on things and turned up the intensity and I turned up the tempos.

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Porter Robinson: And the real breakthrough for this song was once I wrote that lead synth melody.

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Porter Robinson: I mean, that was the moment where I stood up and walked around the studio 150 times listening to it.

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Porter Robinson: Like, did I steal this from somewhere?

00:12:11.793 –> 00:12:13.473
Porter Robinson: Like, this is so good.

00:12:13.473 –> 00:12:14.393
Porter Robinson: What is this from?

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Porter Robinson: You know, like I was sceptical at first because I was so, so happy with it.

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John Kennedy: That’s interesting.

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John Kennedy: I mean, before we dive into that, there has been a question from one of our patrons on Patreon specifically about that from Ryan Hunter, who’s been, who was saying, I’ve been trying to replicate the cheerleader since the ages.

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John Kennedy: There are hundreds of forums telling me how to do it on Reddit, but they don’t come close.

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John Kennedy: What is it?

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Porter Robinson: Well, OK, so luckily with every album, I buy a new gaming PC because I’m producing exclusively on Windows.

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Porter Robinson: This is like an FL Studio person thing.

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Porter Robinson: And so my old projects aren’t really recoverable from one computer to the last, but I spent the better part of the last two days getting some of my projects into like a semi usable state.

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Porter Robinson: So one of the things that I made sure to recreate, not recreate, but to get it functioning in the project was the lead.

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Porter Robinson: So I installed most of my plugins.

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Porter Robinson: I do have that here for you.

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Porter Robinson: Brilliant.

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Porter Robinson: Yeah, man, that was just like, this was one of those moments where I wrote that.

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Porter Robinson: And I usually have one or two of these per album where I’m like, like my heart rate goes up to the max, and I’m like, like I turn the volume all the way up in my studio, and I’m just like, oh my God, like the next week of my life, I’m going to feel incredible because I’ve made this.

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Porter Robinson: And this just spoke to me in every way, you know?

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Porter Robinson: It was like, to me, this lead is like, it’s a bit, it’s a bit like Eurodance.

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Porter Robinson: It’s a little bit like the core progression against it too is like, hold on, I’ll play that with full mix.

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Porter Robinson: I think one of the revolutions for me was this sort of false note here, when it goes…

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Porter Robinson: Which isn’t, that’s not quite in key, but I wanted to have this feeling of the synth being so loud that it’s almost pitch unstable.

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Porter Robinson: I wanted it to sound like a firework, whizzing off into the night sky.

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Porter Robinson: And so I added some natural pitch instability to the synth.

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Porter Robinson: This is kind of what the synth sounds like before all the processing.

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Porter Robinson: Hold on, let me…

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John Kennedy: What synth is it?

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Porter Robinson: It’s called Diva by U-He.

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Porter Robinson: So Diva does pretty convincing analog emulation.

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Porter Robinson: I’m so not a gear person.

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Porter Robinson: I can’t buy any kind of gear because after more than a decade of just making music where everything’s inside the computer, it breaks my flow state to have to look away from the screen.

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Porter Robinson: And so, but I fell in love with the synth.

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Porter Robinson: I’ve been using it for multiple albums.

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Porter Robinson: And I’ll turn it up a bit, but this is how it sounded before processing.

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Porter Robinson: And I think I might have even just taken the initial preset and added a bit of like pitch LFO to it, just to give it that.

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Porter Robinson: So this is without the pitch LFO.

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Porter Robinson: Actually, I still feel like there’s a bit in there.

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Porter Robinson: Yeah, I’m still hearing it, hold on.

00:15:25.773 –> 00:15:26.533
Porter Robinson: Where is that?

00:15:26.533 –> 00:15:28.153
Porter Robinson: What’s that coming from?

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Porter Robinson: We get that fuzziness comes from a low frequency oscillator being put onto the pitch of the lead.

00:15:35.793 –> 00:15:38.293
Porter Robinson: And then I was like, how do I make this more intense?

00:15:38.293 –> 00:15:42.533
Porter Robinson: And then the processing, I’ll kind of I’ll activate it channel by channel.

00:15:42.533 –> 00:15:49.613
Porter Robinson: So the first thing is just a massive amount of 1K because I associate the 1K with like a scream.

00:15:49.613 –> 00:15:53.293
Porter Robinson: Like a human scream is really like it’s got that.

00:15:53.293 –> 00:15:54.853
Porter Robinson: That’s all 1K, you know.

00:15:54.853 –> 00:15:57.073
Porter Robinson: And then I just ran that into a bit of distortion.

00:15:59.573 –> 00:16:00.653
Porter Robinson: And you’re basically there.

00:16:00.653 –> 00:16:03.833
Porter Robinson: I mean, it’s like there’s some reverb and things after it.

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Porter Robinson: I also used a plugin called Tor Reverb.

00:16:08.993 –> 00:16:10.833
Porter Robinson: That adds these like late swells.

00:16:10.833 –> 00:16:12.033
Porter Robinson: This like.

00:16:13.273 –> 00:16:19.773
Porter Robinson: Tor Reverb, I find, has a really kind of lush quality where most reverbs, I think, are kind of like.

00:16:19.773 –> 00:16:21.233
Porter Robinson: But like Tor Reverb is like.

00:16:23.313 –> 00:16:25.933
Porter Robinson: You know, it’s like it has this like.

00:16:27.933 –> 00:16:30.013
Porter Robinson: It has it has that quality to the reverb.

00:16:30.013 –> 00:16:37.113
Porter Robinson: And I was just doing everything that I could to try to take the intensity and make this thing feel like.

00:16:37.113 –> 00:16:41.913
Porter Robinson: Make it feel like a scream and make it feel like a firework kind of, yeah, like whizzing whizzing off.

00:16:43.173 –> 00:16:46.493
Porter Robinson: And so, yeah, that’s kind of the story of that lead.

00:16:46.493 –> 00:16:51.133
Porter Robinson: And then I was just like, well, because I tend to write my songs super chronologically.

00:16:51.133 –> 00:16:53.773
Porter Robinson: I write them from the first bit to the last usually.

00:16:53.773 –> 00:16:54.373
John Kennedy: Right.

00:16:54.373 –> 00:17:02.513
Porter Robinson: So once I had that, I was like, now I need to have a song that is deserving of this introductory sound.

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Porter Robinson: And this is something that I mentioned before, that with each album, I’ll have a song that just feels like a, I’ll have like a clip, a beginning of an idea that feels like a revelation, something that just feels like the level of potential is so high.

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Porter Robinson: And usually those are the biggest nightmares to finish, because if I have this intro section that shows so much promise, and then the verse and pre-chorus and chorus don’t deliver on that promise, it just sucks to find like a clip of a song that sounds like it’s going to be amazing.

00:17:31.713 –> 00:17:34.893
Porter Robinson: And you listen to the rest of it, and the chorus just doesn’t take you all the way there.

00:17:34.893 –> 00:17:44.973
Porter Robinson: And so these are the songs that take me hundreds and hundreds of hours, because I just won’t drop it until every section feels like it hits for me.

00:17:45.293 –> 00:17:47.413
Porter Robinson: It just feels like too much of a waste.

00:17:47.413 –> 00:17:50.213
Porter Robinson: So I mean, I rewrote the verse.

00:17:50.213 –> 00:17:55.233
Porter Robinson: The only freebie for me was the pre-chorus came to me really quickly once I came across the word cheerleader.

00:18:09.748 –> 00:18:18.168
Porter Robinson: Yeah, the other bit that was hard was, how do I find a chorus that lives well against this lead melody?

00:18:18.168 –> 00:18:23.528
Porter Robinson: Because this lead melody has all these little pitch variations and all these weird notes in it.

00:18:23.528 –> 00:18:28.548
Porter Robinson: How do I write a chorus that can soar over this thing that’s already soaring?

00:18:28.548 –> 00:18:32.368
Porter Robinson: Because it didn’t quite feel right to me to have the chorus not also have the lead.

00:18:32.368 –> 00:18:33.388
Porter Robinson: I can play what that sounds like.

00:18:33.688 –> 00:18:36.348
Porter Robinson: It works, but it’s just not as captivating.

00:18:47.605 –> 00:18:49.125
Porter Robinson: So I’ve just turned it on.

00:18:49.125 –> 00:18:54.785
Porter Robinson: Yeah, there was times where I played with the idea of having the lead only in the second half of the chorus, and it kind of cheesed me out.

00:18:54.785 –> 00:18:57.185
Porter Robinson: So I just had them play together ultimately like this.

00:19:06.890 –> 00:19:08.470
Porter Robinson: Anyway, I know I just gave you a lot.

00:19:08.470 –> 00:19:09.010
Porter Robinson: But those are some-

00:19:09.010 –> 00:19:09.690
John Kennedy: No, no, that’s great.

00:19:09.690 –> 00:19:11.330
John Kennedy: I mean, it’s interesting because you’re right.

00:19:11.330 –> 00:19:16.050
John Kennedy: I mean, when you combine the two, it brings this maximalist element.

00:19:16.050 –> 00:19:24.330
John Kennedy: No, so everything is happening, and it makes it doubly exciting, I think, because you’re not kind of stepping back in a thing.

00:19:24.330 –> 00:19:27.310
John Kennedy: You’re giving it the whole experience, as it were.

00:19:27.310 –> 00:19:33.150
John Kennedy: You get the synth line, but you also get your emotional voice and those lyrics as well.

00:19:33.850 –> 00:19:34.850
Porter Robinson: I’m glad it worked in the end.

00:19:35.430 –> 00:19:43.070
Porter Robinson: Once I found something that married the two, I was maybe more relieved than anything.

00:19:43.070 –> 00:19:46.390
Porter Robinson: I was like, oh my god, I finally found it.

00:19:46.390 –> 00:19:50.490
Porter Robinson: The amount of times I would just walk up and down my driveway with a guitar in hand.

00:19:51.470 –> 00:19:53.970
Porter Robinson: I actually have the guitar from the old studio.

00:19:55.070 –> 00:19:59.570
Porter Robinson: It’s funny, because my acoustic was out of tune, so I was just playing on the electric.

00:20:01.190 –> 00:20:10.030
Porter Robinson: One of my habits for writing is when I feel stuck, I’ll go just walk up and down the driveway and kind of sing to myself with a guitar, just to have a change of scenery.

00:20:10.290 –> 00:20:16.070
Porter Robinson: It was nighttime and I dropped my pick and I didn’t have my phone with me.

00:20:16.070 –> 00:20:22.030
Porter Robinson: I didn’t know where the pick was, so I just picked up, I think it was a stick and was using it as a pick.

00:20:22.030 –> 00:20:25.250
Porter Robinson: I have this permanent, I have these marks.

00:20:25.250 –> 00:20:27.830
Porter Robinson: I came back to my studio, I was like, what the hell is this?

00:20:27.830 –> 00:20:29.910
Porter Robinson: But I think it has some character now.

00:20:30.790 –> 00:20:36.210
Porter Robinson: This is from the cheerleader session, was me walking up and down my driveway with a stick because I couldn’t find the pick, just trying to work out.

00:20:36.210 –> 00:20:38.310
Porter Robinson: I was like, what if it’s like…

00:20:38.310 –> 00:20:43.010
Porter Robinson: Yeah, I had so many work in progress choruses and so many different verses.

00:20:44.510 –> 00:20:48.390
John Kennedy: Were you listening to music at the same time or you just thinking about it in your head?

00:20:48.390 –> 00:20:49.790
Porter Robinson: Yeah, just thinking about it.

00:20:49.890 –> 00:20:52.910
Porter Robinson: I have a really hard time dropping stuff.

00:20:52.910 –> 00:20:54.450
Porter Robinson: I mean, you even said this earlier.

00:20:54.690 –> 00:21:00.010
Porter Robinson: I have a hard time dropping stuff when I get frustrated or when I’m like, I just need to have this chorus.

00:21:00.010 –> 00:21:02.770
Porter Robinson: It’s really hard for me to say, well, maybe I just need to have a break.

00:21:03.830 –> 00:21:06.430
Porter Robinson: I’ll beat my head into the wall for hours and hours and hours.

00:21:06.430 –> 00:21:13.650
Porter Robinson: Just thinking like, there’s this meme where it’s a man, and he’s underground and he’s got a pickaxe.

00:21:14.370 –> 00:21:18.450
Porter Robinson: You can see he’s been digging through the dirt for ages and ages and ages.

00:21:19.050 –> 00:21:28.670
Porter Robinson: You see him defeatedly walking away from this mine that he’s mining, and only you, the viewer, can see right after he stopped, there’s just tons and tons of diamonds.

00:21:28.670 –> 00:21:32.650
Porter Robinson: And you see him walking away right before he finds the diamonds in the mine.

00:21:32.650 –> 00:21:34.710
Porter Robinson: And I always feel like this when I’m in the studio.

00:21:34.710 –> 00:21:38.890
Porter Robinson: I’m like, there’s five more minutes and I’m going to crack it.

00:21:38.890 –> 00:21:45.950
Porter Robinson: And yeah, it can be torture at times, but occasionally there’s a breakthrough.

00:21:45.950 –> 00:21:49.450
Porter Robinson: And you know what’s funny is I say that and I don’t even necessarily advise it.

00:21:49.590 –> 00:21:57.370
Porter Robinson: Like once I finally convince myself to put something down and just like take a shower or listen to some other music, that’s usually where the breakthrough comes.

00:21:57.370 –> 00:22:02.390
Porter Robinson: But I really, really struggle getting to that moment because I just want to crack it, you know?

00:22:02.390 –> 00:22:10.050
John Kennedy: Yeah, well, I mean, there are clearly benefits to that approach, you know, and application gets rewarded sometimes.

00:22:10.050 –> 00:22:18.390
John Kennedy: I mean, I’m intrigued to know, you know, you’ve got this amazing lead synth line, and then you start picking up the guitar to create a strumming different dimension to it.

00:22:18.450 –> 00:22:24.070
John Kennedy: Because in a way, once you had that synth line, it could have gone off in quite a few different directions, couldn’t it?

00:22:24.070 –> 00:22:30.230
Porter Robinson: Yeah, yeah, it’s my only thought was, what do I do to just increase the energy to the max here?

00:22:30.230 –> 00:22:36.490
Porter Robinson: So one of the things that I did was use the classic Eurodance Octaving Bass Line.

00:22:39.310 –> 00:22:43.610
Porter Robinson: For somebody who’s my age, this kind of sound is like incredibly nostalgic.

00:22:43.610 –> 00:22:54.850
Porter Robinson: This is like a bass hunter and cascada and this is the canon of anyone who was an Internet user in 2005 to 2007.

00:22:54.850 –> 00:23:02.010
Porter Robinson: There were just tons of dance hits that used that Octaving Bass Line, usually in this progression, usually in a 6415 progression.

00:23:02.010 –> 00:23:08.750
Porter Robinson: Here I’ve done 6413, because I heard three over one or however that musicians phrase that.

00:23:10.190 –> 00:23:12.950
Porter Robinson: So yeah, so I got that bass line against that lead.

00:23:12.950 –> 00:23:13.990
Porter Robinson: Those were written together.

00:23:14.410 –> 00:23:20.990
Porter Robinson: And then there’s this guitar, and this is where I’m like, what even is this?

00:23:20.990 –> 00:23:27.770
Porter Robinson: Probably tons of musicians have told you this, but oftentimes the thing that ends up in the master is just the first thing that I recorded.

00:23:27.770 –> 00:23:29.910
Porter Robinson: I was just like, okay, let me get this idea down.

00:23:29.910 –> 00:23:32.530
Porter Robinson: I grabbed my guitar, it was out of tune.

00:23:32.530 –> 00:23:33.390
Porter Robinson: I turned the distortion up.

00:23:33.390 –> 00:23:37.970
Porter Robinson: I was like, honestly, you’re really just hearing the root in the fifth, it doesn’t matter that much that it’s out of tune.

00:23:38.090 –> 00:23:39.470
Porter Robinson: I’m playing it through loads of distortion.

00:23:39.470 –> 00:23:41.090
Porter Robinson: It’s really not gonna matter.

00:23:41.090 –> 00:23:43.130
Porter Robinson: And it’s the recording that ended up in the final thing.

00:23:43.390 –> 00:23:46.290
Porter Robinson: And let’s see, it’s like, yeah, it’s so out of tune.

00:23:53.310 –> 00:23:56.350
Porter Robinson: And you know what’s funny is I didn’t even know how to play power chords at that time.

00:23:56.350 –> 00:23:59.910
Porter Robinson: I was just playing kind of cowboy chords through distortion.

00:23:59.910 –> 00:24:08.770
Porter Robinson: And I’m kind of happy about that because I think my instinct would have been to, to play power chords for something like this, but I tried it later.

00:24:08.770 –> 00:24:11.990
Porter Robinson: And for me, it was like massively cheesy in the wrong ways.

00:24:11.990 –> 00:24:14.910
Porter Robinson: I love cheese, I love bubblegum, and I love guilty pleasure.

00:24:14.910 –> 00:24:17.730
Porter Robinson: It’s like all my favorite music is kind of bubblegum.

00:24:17.730 –> 00:24:19.750
Porter Robinson: But it’s a fine line, you know?

00:24:19.810 –> 00:24:29.250
Porter Robinson: And power chords were reminding me of kind of just the wrong sort of pop punk nostalgia, like nostalgia for something that I don’t even really like.

00:24:29.250 –> 00:24:34.250
Porter Robinson: And so I’ve got these kind of just cowboy chords in G through the Helix Native.

00:24:37.910 –> 00:24:48.450
Porter Robinson: And yeah, and it’s like, I guess if you’re trying to capture teenage energy, that kind of approach was really complimentary because it was just, it was the first thing I had, it was the only way I knew to play it.

00:24:48.830 –> 00:24:54.750
Porter Robinson: I turned up the distortion and cover up the imperfection, and it just kind of creates this wall of sound when it’s all together.

00:25:01.282 –> 00:25:02.942
John Kennedy: Yeah, it works so well.

00:25:02.942 –> 00:25:17.622
John Kennedy: And it’s almost as if, because of your association with the guitar or lack of association with the guitar, you end up playing and creating with a naive simplicity to it, which brings that teenage energy that you’re after in a way.

00:25:17.622 –> 00:25:24.802
John Kennedy: No, and that seems so appropriate and helps unlock worlds for you for this record.

00:25:24.802 –> 00:25:31.602
Porter Robinson: I’m so happy it came across that way, because at the time, I was probably thinking like, oh god, I hope no one can tell that I don’t know what I’m doing.

00:25:31.602 –> 00:25:36.382
Porter Robinson: You know, I was like, I wasn’t thinking like, oh, it’s so awesome that I don’t know what I’m doing.

00:25:36.382 –> 00:25:40.782
Porter Robinson: And I was just like, I think people won’t be able to tell once I turn the distortion up.

00:25:40.782 –> 00:25:44.322
Porter Robinson: But in retrospect, it’s like, oh, there was something really nice about it.

00:25:44.322 –> 00:25:46.682
Porter Robinson: And I think, you know, I’m still in that period with the guitar.

00:25:46.682 –> 00:25:49.302
Porter Robinson: I’m still just a total beginner.

00:25:49.302 –> 00:25:55.182
John Kennedy: I think one of the things, though, is you combine that, I guess I’m going to call it naive approach.

00:25:55.602 –> 00:26:12.962
John Kennedy: But because you are very experienced now in composition and how to arrange things and putting things together, then because you have that skill set, it means that you can have it within that world and end up creating a really brilliant composition around the sounds that you like.

00:26:12.962 –> 00:26:24.942
Porter Robinson: That’s, I mean, that’s, I am really grateful to have as much experience as I’ve had making music because I think I want, I always want to write songs that sound like they’re someone’s debut or where they got really lucky.

00:26:25.322 –> 00:26:29.382
Porter Robinson: I love that, that feeling where like I love One Hit Wonders so much.

00:26:29.382 –> 00:26:45.462
Porter Robinson: I want to make songs that sound like One Hit Wonders because it’s just like, those are the moments where just the universe just kind of smiles on you and put something, it just lands in your lap and you don’t even know how it came together and it has nothing to do with your ego or level of ability and I’m constantly trying to fake that, you know?

00:26:45.462 –> 00:26:51.302
Porter Robinson: I’m trying to, because I think about making music at times is kind of like, it’s a bit of a gamble with your time.

00:26:51.382 –> 00:26:54.302
Porter Robinson: Like, I like to roll as many times as I can.

00:26:54.302 –> 00:27:15.682
Porter Robinson: When I go into the studio to make music, I try to make six or seven clips in the day because I just know that rather than starting one thing and putting as much effort into it as possible, I think it’s better to plant a lot of seeds and then find the one that is just has, through luck, has shown outsized potential and then really devote yourself to it like wholeheartedly.

00:27:15.682 –> 00:27:24.122
Porter Robinson: And this was one of those where it was like, and I think that’s why so many of my songs open with a synth hook because I’m making these little instrumental clips all day.

00:27:24.122 –> 00:27:37.442
Porter Robinson: And once I find something that feels like it’s searing my eyebrows off, I’m like, okay, now I’m pregnant and now I have to nurture this thing for the next three months of my life and it’s going to be torture.

00:27:37.442 –> 00:27:47.862
Porter Robinson: But once I capture that verse that realizes the potential in the pre-chorus and chorus, and it all comes together, like, yeah, all those attempts will be worth it.

00:27:48.422 –> 00:27:48.802
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:27:48.802 –> 00:27:55.942
John Kennedy: And in terms of the lyric writing, how does that come in adjacent to the music that you’re creating?

00:27:55.942 –> 00:28:03.722
John Kennedy: I mean, would you focus on creating the song structure, the different sounds that are in it, and then afterwards think about words?

00:28:03.722 –> 00:28:08.142
John Kennedy: Or you said earlier about coming up with the phrase cheerleader.

00:28:08.142 –> 00:28:11.842
John Kennedy: I mean, did that come before you wrote any verses or anything like that?

00:28:11.842 –> 00:28:18.602
Porter Robinson: I’ve got to be probably the millionth person to come on here and say this, but I do a lot of just baby sounds, mouth sounds.

00:28:19.482 –> 00:28:25.322
Porter Robinson: I’m kind of recording nonsense through autotune until I kind of start to hear words.

00:28:25.322 –> 00:28:33.542
Porter Robinson: And then the obsession begins once I’ve got the melody right, and once I’ve got the general vowel shapes right, because I think the vowels are part of the melody.

00:28:33.782 –> 00:28:39.942
Porter Robinson: Yeah, it’s never as easy as kind of getting the notes and the rhythm right.

00:28:39.942 –> 00:28:43.922
Porter Robinson: The vowels are an intrinsic part of the kind of musical poetry.

00:28:44.522 –> 00:28:46.542
Porter Robinson: And I don’t mean that from a lyrics perspective.

00:28:46.542 –> 00:28:49.482
Porter Robinson: I mean from a sound perspective, right?

00:28:49.482 –> 00:28:52.282
Porter Robinson: Like something can be resonant.

00:28:52.282 –> 00:28:58.142
Porter Robinson: If you listen to it in another song, in another language, like you can tell when somebody gets the vowel sounds right.

00:28:58.142 –> 00:29:08.522
Porter Robinson: You know, it’s just like you needed an A there, and you needed an E there, and the A needed to be a long half note, and then the E needed to be an eighth note.

00:29:08.522 –> 00:29:10.422
Porter Robinson: And so I’m like, I’ll look for those things.

00:29:10.422 –> 00:29:18.342
Porter Robinson: And that’s the part of this that takes me the absolute longest, because I don’t see myself as a great singer at all.

00:29:18.342 –> 00:29:32.762
Porter Robinson: If anything, I think I’m more limited in that ability than probably your average person, but I think I make up for it in just dogged intensity and just a desire to get it right, and a desire to be the one saying the words.

00:29:32.762 –> 00:29:52.542
Porter Robinson: But if there’s one thing that I can point to, from the beginning, even when I was just making straight up dance music and not really writing songs, the thing that I think has been most fundamental to my approach is making a lot of music and having an incredibly intensely high standard for what’s good enough.

00:29:52.782 –> 00:29:54.602
Porter Robinson: And that’s only to my taste, you know?

00:29:54.602 –> 00:30:02.222
Porter Robinson: But I spend a lot of time making just total schlock, you know, making just so much mediocrity.

00:30:02.222 –> 00:30:05.462
Porter Robinson: And I feel like I’ll luck into something that’s great.

00:30:05.462 –> 00:30:09.702
Porter Robinson: And then I just refuse to put it down until the rest of it is realized.

00:30:09.762 –> 00:30:11.102
Porter Robinson: I’m not an effortless writer.

00:30:11.102 –> 00:30:13.822
Porter Robinson: I’m not an effortless singer by any means.

00:30:13.942 –> 00:30:25.262
Porter Robinson: I record each line like 100 times and I’m picking individual vowels and individual syllables because it’s just like, yeah, I just want it to be as good as the music that I love, you know?

00:30:25.262 –> 00:30:25.602
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:30:25.602 –> 00:30:26.222
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:30:26.222 –> 00:30:31.162
John Kennedy: I think it’s a worthy approach to things and it clearly pays off.

00:30:31.162 –> 00:30:33.182
John Kennedy: Is there anything else we should hear in Cheerleader?

00:30:33.182 –> 00:30:36.662
John Kennedy: Any other sounds or sections that you’d like to highlight?

00:30:38.782 –> 00:30:42.022
Porter Robinson: It is a pretty simple song in the end.

00:30:42.022 –> 00:31:03.982
Porter Robinson: One thing that I was kind of excited about, actually, I think this version is pre the phase of me cutting the song down because a lot of my songs tend to end up at like five minutes and I cut them down to 330, not because of radio or anything else like that, but because like I just want them to be as Max Martin as possible and I want them to be focused and to respect the listener’s time and to hit, you know?

00:31:04.562 –> 00:31:11.922
Porter Robinson: And there’s this outro bit that used to be in the intro where I doubled the lead and it plays a counter melody.

00:31:12.082 –> 00:31:12.882
Porter Robinson: Let’s see if that’s working.

00:31:30.831 –> 00:31:40.311
Porter Robinson: So, I wanted there to be a countermelody on top of the lead melody, but I realized it felt a bit cooler if I just let the initial lead turn into like a siren.

00:31:40.311 –> 00:31:43.211
Porter Robinson: So, this is the main lead, and then it goes.

00:31:49.333 –> 00:31:51.533
Porter Robinson: And then you get that counter melody lead on top of it.

00:32:03.458 –> 00:32:07.538
Porter Robinson: And this second lead has its legato settings really short.

00:32:07.538 –> 00:32:11.758
Porter Robinson: So the initial lead has more of a portamento, more of a legato.

00:32:11.758 –> 00:32:23.358
Porter Robinson: So meaning like, if you go from to the first lead, we kind of go and this one would go like it goes straight to the note, right?

00:32:23.358 –> 00:32:33.178
Porter Robinson: And this one has this little motions on it that are like, it’s like similar to some kind of like medieval flute or something where it’s like like.

00:32:39.945 –> 00:32:52.765
Porter Robinson: And yeah, it’s almost a bit embarrassing when you look at this and you’re like, these things that I wanted them to sound like, the synth itself was unstable or the playing got, was a bit unusual.

00:32:52.765 –> 00:32:59.805
Porter Robinson: Like it’s so programmed the way I make music, but I just, I kind of heard it and it ended up in the song.

00:32:59.805 –> 00:33:01.765
John Kennedy: Absolutely fascinating stuff, I think, Porter.

00:33:01.765 –> 00:33:09.345
John Kennedy: We’re gonna take a quick break, but before we do, let’s have another blast of the master somewhere maybe further on in the song, and then we’ll be able to move on.

00:33:59.443 –> 00:34:06.763
John Kennedy: It is Cheerleader by Porter Robinson, and we’re going to take a quick break, and then we’ll be back to find out all about Is There Really No Happiness?

00:34:10.103 –> 00:34:15.423
John Kennedy: This episode is supported by the brand new Songwriting Masters Program at Trinity Laban, London.

00:34:15.423 –> 00:34:21.043
John Kennedy: As a world-renowned conservatoire, Trinity Laban offers exceptional education and training in the arts.

00:34:21.043 –> 00:34:31.483
John Kennedy: And this September, you can join their world-leading experts and industry professionals for their Masters in Songwriting, designed to give you the knowledge to build a lasting and successful career in the industry.

00:34:31.483 –> 00:34:40.043
John Kennedy: And very excitingly, I’ve got Dr Tony Briscoe, Music Production Pathway Leader at Trinity Laban, here to tell us a little bit more about it.

00:34:40.043 –> 00:34:40.723
John Kennedy: Hi, Tony.

00:34:40.723 –> 00:34:42.123
John Kennedy: Thanks for speaking to us.

00:34:42.123 –> 00:34:44.223
John Kennedy: Can you tell us more about this course?

00:34:44.223 –> 00:34:44.723
Tony: Hi, John.

00:34:44.723 –> 00:34:45.803
Tony: It’s great to be here.

00:34:45.803 –> 00:34:58.723
Tony: So this year, we’re offering a brand new course at Trinity Laban, and it’s an MA in Songwriting, and it will really offer people who are interested in songwriting an opportunity to really advance their skills in there.

00:34:58.723 –> 00:35:05.863
Tony: So it’s a blend between academic and practical learning, which will help students really kind of refine their artistic identity.

00:35:05.863 –> 00:35:20.023
Tony: But it also has a multifaceted set of modules, covering musicianship, lyrical craft, music production, music industry insights, and really get into the various aspects of what it takes to be an advanced songwriter in this industry.

00:35:20.423 –> 00:35:21.423
John Kennedy: It sounds great, Tony.

00:35:21.423 –> 00:35:25.563
John Kennedy: What is the one most important element that this course offers, do you think?

00:35:25.563 –> 00:35:28.643
Tony: Yes, I would say definitely it’s the collaboration.

00:35:28.643 –> 00:35:32.863
Tony: So there’s the online component where you’ll be sharing ideas.

00:35:32.863 –> 00:35:43.723
Tony: But there is also a writing camp, which is kind of modeled off the industry standard kind of writing camps, where all the students will get to Trinity Laban in London in Greenwich.

00:35:43.723 –> 00:35:51.103
Tony: They will be in the studio working together collaboratively to create a song from scratch to a professional standard at the end.

00:35:51.103 –> 00:35:53.243
John Kennedy: And at the end of the year, what do you leave with?

00:35:53.243 –> 00:35:55.743
Tony: So you’ll leave with an industry-ready portfolio.

00:35:55.743 –> 00:36:00.483
Tony: You’ll gain a lot of one-to-one mentorship, which will take your raw craft to that next level.

00:36:00.483 –> 00:36:03.703
Tony: And also those industry connection part is super, super important.

00:36:03.703 –> 00:36:14.363
Tony: So you’ll gain those connections through things like master classes, network events, and also of course that songwriting camp, which will provide you a direct access to the industry professionals.

00:36:14.683 –> 00:36:15.443
John Kennedy: Thanks, Tony.

00:36:15.443 –> 00:36:20.323
John Kennedy: That’s Trinity Laban’s MA in Songwriting, now taking applications to begin this September.

00:36:20.323 –> 00:36:25.243
John Kennedy: To find out more, head to the link in a recent episode Show Notes, or visit trinitylaban.ac.uk.

00:36:26.503 –> 00:36:31.723
John Kennedy: That’s trinity, L-A-B-A-N dot A-C dot UK.

00:36:33.863 –> 00:36:38.483
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at from Porter Robinson’s Smile is, Is There Really No Happiness?

00:36:38.483 –> 00:36:45.443
John Kennedy: But before that, I’m going to look at a couple of these other Patreon questions that have come through, one from Jay Cassie and the other from Vibana.

00:36:45.443 –> 00:36:47.463
John Kennedy: And they both kind of link into each other in a way.

00:36:47.463 –> 00:36:56.743
John Kennedy: Jay Cassie was wondering how you build up a sonic palette of instruments and samples to use on each songs so that albums have such a cohesive feel because they always do.

00:36:56.743 –> 00:36:59.783
John Kennedy: And Vibana was on a similar idea.

00:36:59.783 –> 00:37:03.963
John Kennedy: Each album has a cohesive sound that’s distinct from the albums that came before or after it.

00:37:04.323 –> 00:37:10.083
John Kennedy: Is there a lot of time spent doing just sound design and exploration without writing songs?

00:37:10.083 –> 00:37:12.263
Porter Robinson: Both really, really great questions.

00:37:12.263 –> 00:37:25.183
Porter Robinson: And I think either approach, whether that’s building up, intentionally building up a sound palette to work on a new record or intentionally setting aside sound design time to build up a new aesthetic are perfectly valid.

00:37:25.183 –> 00:37:26.543
Porter Robinson: It’s not what I do.

00:37:26.543 –> 00:37:33.403
Porter Robinson: I think that the sound of each album tends to come from the process of refinement in making a song.

00:37:33.803 –> 00:37:45.143
Porter Robinson: So, my way of doing it is that I’ll start a musical idea and in pursuit of seeing it through, I just pull at the threads that are exciting me.

00:37:45.143 –> 00:37:46.943
Porter Robinson: I pull at the things that I feel in my stomach.

00:37:46.943 –> 00:37:51.943
Porter Robinson: You know, it’s like if I’m doing some drums that sound like the previous record, it might get me halfway there.

00:37:51.943 –> 00:37:57.723
Porter Robinson: But then if I’m, I’ll think about what music I’ve been liking recently and what kind of world I want to live in.

00:37:57.723 –> 00:37:59.983
Porter Robinson: And I’ll just try and make them there on the spot, you know?

00:38:00.583 –> 00:38:09.283
Porter Robinson: And I personally get a lot of value from incorporating the exploration into the process of writing the song.

00:38:09.283 –> 00:38:20.383
Porter Robinson: Because like I might make a drum sample pack for myself of things that I think are absolutely right for the new record, but they sound really good in isolation in the sample pack, but they don’t quite sound great in the songs.

00:38:20.383 –> 00:38:24.843
Porter Robinson: And so I like basically I like to gun for the final result as quickly as possible.

00:38:25.443 –> 00:38:38.943
Porter Robinson: And I think it’s more a process of taste refinement, where the stuff that’s not good enough just doesn’t end up living and the stuff that is that is screaming at me from the page, you know, screaming at me from the sequencer, that becomes the final album.

00:38:38.943 –> 00:38:45.363
Porter Robinson: And I think the aesthetic is kind of derived from that process of selection rather than preparation.

00:38:45.363 –> 00:38:54.003
Porter Robinson: But there are things that I think about, like I think about images and I think about time periods and how it might feel to be on stage.

00:38:54.603 –> 00:38:56.423
Porter Robinson: But then I’m just gunning straight for that feeling.

00:38:56.423 –> 00:38:59.963
Porter Robinson: I don’t tend to do a preparation process.

00:38:59.963 –> 00:39:07.543
Porter Robinson: My advice maybe would be spend as much time just making the songs as possible and refining the things you don’t like about them and throw away a lot of it.

00:39:07.543 –> 00:39:09.703
Porter Robinson: Throw away a lot of the songs that just don’t work for you.

00:39:09.703 –> 00:39:15.663
Porter Robinson: And usually the aesthetic and who you are will be revealed through that process of cutting things away.

00:39:15.663 –> 00:39:22.363
John Kennedy: Yeah, I think what they’re getting at as well is that all your albums sound completely different and yet we know it’s Porter Robinson.

00:39:22.463 –> 00:39:32.783
John Kennedy: And another question came through by a patron from Janahan who taps into that saying, I notice each album sounds unique to each other, but also at the same time feels so familiar, more so than other artists.

00:39:32.783 –> 00:39:36.563
John Kennedy: I think of the similarities as the essence of Porter Robinson.

00:39:36.563 –> 00:39:47.163
John Kennedy: If you had to pinpoint what you think this essence is for yourself, whether it would be something technical like how you process drums or it being more the idea of melancholy, which is present in all your music.

00:39:47.163 –> 00:39:51.083
John Kennedy: So now somehow you reveal the essence of Porter in whatever you do.

00:39:51.823 –> 00:39:59.143
Porter Robinson: That’s cool and that comment really touches me because it’s what you want, you want to be seen.

00:39:59.143 –> 00:40:05.383
Porter Robinson: I think that’s a lot of artists feel that way, they want to be seen and that comment really makes me feel seen.

00:40:05.383 –> 00:40:15.683
Porter Robinson: It’s sometimes hard to like, it’s like how you don’t know what your own house smells like until you’ve been away for some time and you come home and be like, oh, like this is, it’s like, it’s a little hard for me to know what makes me me.

00:40:16.363 –> 00:40:21.603
Porter Robinson: If I had to guess, I would say, I love brightness.

00:40:21.603 –> 00:40:24.283
Porter Robinson: I really like, I layer tons and tons of things.

00:40:24.483 –> 00:40:26.343
Porter Robinson: I layer in things that you can’t hear.

00:40:26.343 –> 00:40:29.223
Porter Robinson: I hear a lot of artists say like, get rid of things that you can’t hear.

00:40:29.223 –> 00:40:30.743
Porter Robinson: I love little bits of noise.

00:40:30.743 –> 00:40:33.283
Porter Robinson: I love the noise buildup.

00:40:33.283 –> 00:40:34.983
Porter Robinson: I love maximalism.

00:40:34.983 –> 00:40:35.883
Porter Robinson: I love guilty pleasures.

00:40:35.883 –> 00:40:38.023
Porter Robinson: I love catchiness a lot.

00:40:38.023 –> 00:40:41.763
Porter Robinson: I think all of my music is really driven by hooks.

00:40:41.763 –> 00:40:54.023
Porter Robinson: And then yeah, there’s this feeling that some people will call like happy sad that I really like, which is it’s this feeling of, it’s like hope and sadness and grief and joy.

00:40:54.023 –> 00:40:59.363
Porter Robinson: It’s like all the emotions of life distilled in a single moment.

00:40:59.363 –> 00:41:06.243
Porter Robinson: Something that kind of makes you just reflect on getting to be alive generally that I think I reach for my music to like.

00:41:06.243 –> 00:41:09.623
Porter Robinson: And then yeah, it’s like, I think I always do my chords the same way.

00:41:09.623 –> 00:41:20.363
Porter Robinson: It’s always these like, I don’t know what they’re called, but it’s just these like kind of suspended chords where the right hand is basically doing, it has a lot of the same notes each time and the bass line is just moving around that.

00:41:20.363 –> 00:41:28.523
Porter Robinson: It’s almost like if you just created like a major chord pad and moved a bass note underneath it, that’s kind of a very Porter-y sound.

00:41:28.523 –> 00:41:33.563
Porter Robinson: So I said it’s hard to know yourself, but I did just give six or seven things that I think I tend to do.

00:41:33.563 –> 00:41:36.603
Porter Robinson: But I love, I thank you for sharing that with me because it means a lot to me.

00:41:36.603 –> 00:41:38.983
John Kennedy: Yeah, no, these questions are brilliant.

00:41:38.983 –> 00:41:40.983
John Kennedy: Is there really no happiness is another question.

00:41:40.983 –> 00:41:43.243
John Kennedy: It’s also the title of the next song we’re going to look at.

00:41:44.003 –> 00:41:47.883
John Kennedy: Maybe you could give us a blast of the master and then we can find out how you created it.

00:41:47.883 –> 00:41:48.543
Porter Robinson: Absolutely, yep.

00:43:00.988 –> 00:43:02.428
John Kennedy: Is there really no happiness?

00:43:02.428 –> 00:43:03.828
John Kennedy: It’s such a big question.

00:43:03.828 –> 00:43:06.708
John Kennedy: It’s Porter Robinson from the album Smile.

00:43:06.708 –> 00:43:11.488
John Kennedy: Did the title come first, Porter, or had you already created some music?

00:43:11.488 –> 00:43:13.468
Porter Robinson: Yeah, the title was one of the last things.

00:43:13.468 –> 00:43:18.108
Porter Robinson: This was the song with the most rewrites by a mile.

00:43:18.108 –> 00:43:27.308
Porter Robinson: It was, it began as a collaboration with my friends Wave Dash and my fellow artist and friend James Ivy.

00:43:27.308 –> 00:43:31.368
Porter Robinson: And we were trying to make like a bit of a collaborative EP.

00:43:31.368 –> 00:43:34.208
Porter Robinson: And we made the very fundamentals of this.

00:43:34.208 –> 00:43:40.728
Porter Robinson: So none of the writing, not even the, none of that, none of the chorus.

00:43:40.728 –> 00:43:43.888
Porter Robinson: It was just like the feel of these drums.

00:43:45.168 –> 00:43:46.648
Porter Robinson: I can actually just pull up the drums themselves.

00:43:46.648 –> 00:43:48.548
Porter Robinson: What am I doing?

00:43:48.548 –> 00:43:50.068
Porter Robinson: We’ll get rid of the hook.

00:43:54.388 –> 00:43:56.088
Porter Robinson: This is the essence of what we had made together.

00:44:02.068 –> 00:44:03.508
John Kennedy: And is that you on guitar?

00:44:03.508 –> 00:44:04.348
Porter Robinson: That’s James Ivy.

00:44:04.348 –> 00:44:05.828
Porter Robinson: That’s my buddy, Jimmy, on guitar.

00:44:05.828 –> 00:44:08.028
Porter Robinson: Amazing, amazing artist.

00:44:08.028 –> 00:44:10.248
Porter Robinson: Yeah, he’s like a dadgad player.

00:44:10.248 –> 00:44:12.868
Porter Robinson: And I love the phrasing of this chord.

00:44:12.868 –> 00:44:21.028
Porter Robinson: Like it’s like, like if I was to pull up, I’ll just like make a little synth instance.

00:44:22.868 –> 00:44:24.408
Porter Robinson: Like all my songs are like four songs.

00:44:24.728 –> 00:44:26.648
Porter Robinson: So like, it’s like the F.

00:44:29.588 –> 00:44:33.048
Porter Robinson: But it’s this chord, which is almost ugly in isolation.

00:44:33.048 –> 00:44:37.968
Porter Robinson: It’s like, and then when you want that to go here, right?

00:44:37.968 –> 00:44:41.968
Porter Robinson: You want it to go, you want it to go.

00:44:41.968 –> 00:44:46.728
Porter Robinson: But when it does, the bass note changes and the chord changes.

00:44:46.728 –> 00:44:59.808
Porter Robinson: So it’s, it’s really simple, but I like how the way it’s constantly tugging towards this idea of resolution, but it’s just tumbling forward permanently.

00:45:04.028 –> 00:45:09.748
Porter Robinson: So I think I even have an initial demo of this one before.

00:45:09.748 –> 00:45:18.448
Porter Robinson: Basically, the story of this song was, it started off as a collab that showed like some potential and we all shelved it for ages.

00:45:20.208 –> 00:45:23.408
Porter Robinson: We thought we had taken it to as far as we could potentially take it.

00:45:23.408 –> 00:45:26.468
Porter Robinson: Basically, the rest of the group was ready to give up on it.

00:45:26.468 –> 00:45:27.928
Porter Robinson: I was like, I feel like there’s something here.

00:45:27.928 –> 00:45:33.708
Porter Robinson: I have that same energy of being like, I have to see this through, there’s something to this that can be turned into a real song.

00:45:33.708 –> 00:45:37.088
Porter Robinson: But the initial demo, it’s like a completely different song.

00:45:37.088 –> 00:45:42.408
Porter Robinson: The final verse is not there, the final hook is not there, the final pre-chorus is not there, the final chorus is not there.

00:45:42.408 –> 00:45:46.048
Porter Robinson: It’s just a skeleton of some production that we did together.

00:45:46.808 –> 00:45:54.548
Porter Robinson: And so it’s weird that I was like gunning for this song to survive when basically none of the elements did survive.

00:45:54.548 –> 00:46:01.188
Porter Robinson: It’s like that question if you rebuild a ship and replace all of its parts one by one, is it still the same ship at the end of the day?

00:46:01.188 –> 00:46:02.748
Porter Robinson: But this has a few things in common.

00:46:02.748 –> 00:46:06.968
Porter Robinson: There’s the drums and some of those guitars ended up living.

00:46:06.968 –> 00:46:14.828
Porter Robinson: And kind of because of that, this has become one of those songs where there’s a ton of tiny little layers that are basically inaudible.

00:46:14.948 –> 00:46:18.868
Porter Robinson: And it’s just filled with all these little vestiges and stuff like that.

00:46:18.868 –> 00:46:22.968
Porter Robinson: So this was the very initial demo.

00:46:22.968 –> 00:46:25.228
Porter Robinson: It’s called Skyscrapers and Wheatfields.

00:46:27.928 –> 00:46:29.868
Porter Robinson: That sounds in there very lightly.

00:46:33.508 –> 00:46:38.108
Porter Robinson: There’s that guitar.

00:46:38.108 –> 00:46:39.868
Porter Robinson: And then Jimmy sings here, James Ivey.

00:47:03.088 –> 00:47:04.088
Porter Robinson: Sorry, I did pull up.

00:47:04.088 –> 00:47:07.208
Porter Robinson: I pulled up the wrong version here, where that does have the hook from the final song.

00:47:08.208 –> 00:47:12.428
Porter Robinson: So, this must have been the 5.0.

00:47:12.428 –> 00:47:14.748
Porter Robinson: But yeah, we were all together.

00:47:15.188 –> 00:47:18.848
Porter Robinson: We all went to a studio in Sebastopol, California.

00:47:18.848 –> 00:47:25.188
Porter Robinson: And it was kind of an intermediate period after my last record where I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to do.

00:47:25.188 –> 00:47:28.068
Porter Robinson: And we all just sat together and we made a bunch of different ideas.

00:47:28.068 –> 00:47:32.208
Porter Robinson: And this was basically the only thing that survived.

00:47:32.208 –> 00:47:34.188
Porter Robinson: But yeah, it was in person and that’s tough for me.

00:47:34.188 –> 00:47:39.708
Porter Robinson: You know, I’m sure you get this sense from talking to me, but I’m a little bit of a reclusive person.

00:47:39.708 –> 00:47:41.368
Porter Robinson: I tend to be…

00:47:41.368 –> 00:47:43.088
Porter Robinson: My way of working is to be…

00:47:43.088 –> 00:47:51.028
Porter Robinson: To shut the door, you know, and to be by myself for 12 hours so that I can record the same line 150 times and try out 150 different hooks.

00:47:51.608 –> 00:47:53.928
Porter Robinson: And it’s like, it’s not sexy at all.

00:47:53.928 –> 00:47:58.348
Porter Robinson: And it’s really hard for me to get into that mode when I feel like I’m being observed.

00:47:58.348 –> 00:48:01.188
Porter Robinson: I can’t perform in the studio, you know, I don’t want…

00:48:01.188 –> 00:48:03.508
Porter Robinson: It wouldn’t be an exciting thing, I don’t think, to watch me work.

00:48:04.148 –> 00:48:09.588
Porter Robinson: Because if I knew people were watching, I would change the way that I’m working in order to…

00:48:09.588 –> 00:48:16.888
Porter Robinson: I would come up with some kind of surefire things that aren’t that exciting to me, when the way to really find stuff that’s exciting for me is to make a whole…

00:48:16.888 –> 00:48:20.848
Porter Robinson: To go as far off the trodden path and make a whole bunch of garbage.

00:48:20.848 –> 00:48:22.988
Porter Robinson: You know, like you have to be willing…

00:48:22.988 –> 00:48:24.988
Porter Robinson: It’s so different from a performance.

00:48:24.988 –> 00:48:31.728
Porter Robinson: So I think that that might have been why I struggled in those sessions to come up with anything great, because I didn’t want to sing in front of my friends.

00:48:32.308 –> 00:48:33.608
Porter Robinson: I didn’t want to flop, you know?

00:48:33.608 –> 00:48:36.568
Porter Robinson: And I’m perfectly happy flopping in front of myself.

00:48:36.568 –> 00:48:37.588
Porter Robinson: So that’s why I kind of had…

00:48:37.588 –> 00:48:39.628
Porter Robinson: I was like, I know everyone’s given up on the song.

00:48:39.628 –> 00:48:41.708
Porter Robinson: I know you guys don’t believe in this anymore.

00:48:41.708 –> 00:48:44.968
Porter Robinson: Let me just spend 150 more hours on it.

00:48:44.968 –> 00:48:47.428
Porter Robinson: And because I think there’s something to this.

00:48:47.428 –> 00:48:47.988
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:48:47.988 –> 00:48:52.168
John Kennedy: So what did you do then when you got away from the group, as it were?

00:48:52.168 –> 00:48:52.648
Porter Robinson: Yeah.

00:48:52.648 –> 00:48:59.808
Porter Robinson: So the first thing that I did was I actually wrote the chorus and I wrote it on piano.

00:49:00.788 –> 00:49:03.748
Porter Robinson: That is there really no happiness without this feeling bit?

00:49:04.068 –> 00:49:08.888
Porter Robinson: I wrote that as kind of a piano ballad, not for this song.

00:49:08.888 –> 00:49:14.928
Porter Robinson: And I remember it was one of those moments where I was sitting down at the piano and writing and Rico was in the other room.

00:49:14.928 –> 00:49:19.988
Porter Robinson: And she never, ever, ever says this, but she heard me sing that chorus and she’s like, that sounds like a hit to me.

00:49:19.988 –> 00:49:23.228
Porter Robinson: Like that sounds like a really big vocal there.

00:49:23.228 –> 00:49:24.148
Porter Robinson: And I was like, really?

00:49:24.148 –> 00:49:27.108
Porter Robinson: And that kind of just got me excited because I wasn’t performing to her.

00:49:27.108 –> 00:49:29.588
Porter Robinson: I didn’t know I was being listened to because I’m always playing in front of her.

00:49:29.668 –> 00:49:34.528
Porter Robinson: And it’s almost like I’m by myself in those moments because she never comments on stuff.

00:49:34.528 –> 00:49:38.048
Porter Robinson: So that that chorus goes like this.

00:49:38.048 –> 00:49:40.908
Porter Robinson: Oh, this is like an old version, but.

00:49:50.328 –> 00:49:52.448
Porter Robinson: Just that, is there really no happiness without this feeling?

00:49:52.488 –> 00:49:53.888
Porter Robinson: I had that.

00:49:55.108 –> 00:49:59.808
Porter Robinson: And by the way, I would love to get into this version because this is, this is something I had forgotten existed.

00:49:59.808 –> 00:50:01.368
Porter Robinson: This is another rewrite of this.

00:50:01.368 –> 00:50:05.408
Porter Robinson: There were probably eight or nine rewrites of this song, all different productions.

00:50:05.408 –> 00:50:09.928
Porter Robinson: But I had that lyric, is there really no happiness out this feeling?

00:50:09.928 –> 00:50:11.828
Porter Robinson: Is there really no happiness without you near me?

00:50:11.828 –> 00:50:14.428
Porter Robinson: And I didn’t really know what it meant.

00:50:14.428 –> 00:50:23.608
Porter Robinson: And the thing that finally made this song click was realizing that what that line means to me is, I’m talking about nostalgia there.

00:50:23.608 –> 00:50:35.188
Porter Robinson: So oftentimes I’m comparing the state of the world, the state of my music, the state of, you know, even for me, things that I love, like video games, like, oh, it was so much different back then.

00:50:35.188 –> 00:50:50.388
Porter Robinson: And I’m comparing the present moment to this thing that I know is colored by all of this fake neurotransmitter, these fake feelings, this rosy glow that is not really achievable in reality.

00:50:50.388 –> 00:50:58.028
Porter Robinson: And I think we know this because you recreate a nostalgic experience and it’s nice for a little while, but it doesn’t hit the way that you remember, right?

00:50:58.028 –> 00:50:59.568
Porter Robinson: And I’m always chasing that feeling.

00:50:59.568 –> 00:51:04.008
Porter Robinson: I want reality to feel the way that my most cherished memories feel to me.

00:51:04.008 –> 00:51:12.288
Porter Robinson: So this song is kind of about realizing that that feeling’s not really real and kind of longing for it.

00:51:12.288 –> 00:51:14.928
Porter Robinson: Is there really no happiness without this feeling?

00:51:14.928 –> 00:51:23.708
Porter Robinson: And so after just tons and tons and tons of years on the verse, I was like, I’m gonna write a verse that is expressly about just memories.

00:51:23.708 –> 00:51:26.108
Porter Robinson: And that was kind of when it clicked.

00:51:26.108 –> 00:51:29.248
Porter Robinson: So I had, the verse is a bit like this.

00:51:57.908 –> 00:52:01.588
Porter Robinson: I tried to give it a bit of southern twang, a little country, cuz I’m from the south of the US.

00:52:07.708 –> 00:52:10.188
Porter Robinson: You know, I’m kind of hitting that a little bit.

00:52:10.188 –> 00:52:16.108
Porter Robinson: Just to like, you know, pay homage to my childhood and to being from the south.

00:52:16.108 –> 00:52:19.368
John Kennedy: Yeah, it doesn’t necessarily come across in your spoken voice.

00:52:20.328 –> 00:52:22.168
Porter Robinson: Yeah, I don’t think I have a southern accent.

00:52:22.168 –> 00:52:24.308
Porter Robinson: I can kind of get into it if y’all want me to.

00:52:25.708 –> 00:52:27.708
Porter Robinson: I could lean back and I could really let that ride.

00:52:27.708 –> 00:52:29.688
Porter Robinson: But yeah, I did.

00:52:29.688 –> 00:52:44.348
Porter Robinson: I started, I think I realized that a lot of the things I like in music, kind of the melancholy and nostalgia and those sweet, open kind of cowboy chords are really present in country music, which is something I thought I was averse to my whole life.

00:52:44.348 –> 00:52:48.468
Porter Robinson: And I started getting into folk and even some of the like emo folk stuff.

00:52:48.848 –> 00:52:52.428
Porter Robinson: And I realized how much it resonated with what was already there in me.

00:52:52.428 –> 00:52:55.588
Porter Robinson: And so I tried to channel that in this song.

00:52:55.588 –> 00:52:55.948
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:52:55.948 –> 00:53:00.068
John Kennedy: So it’s kind of seeped in somehow, just from growing up in that area.

00:53:00.068 –> 00:53:00.648
Porter Robinson: I think so.

00:53:00.648 –> 00:53:00.848
Porter Robinson: Yeah.

00:53:00.848 –> 00:53:03.268
Porter Robinson: I was like as some osmosis.

00:53:03.268 –> 00:53:07.468
Porter Robinson: But yeah, the next thing that developed was I was like, we had this intro bit.

00:53:09.128 –> 00:53:11.148
Porter Robinson: And this is very obviously missing something.

00:53:11.148 –> 00:53:13.608
Porter Robinson: And so I wrote a bunch of different synth hooks.

00:53:13.608 –> 00:53:19.428
Porter Robinson: And then I tried sort of, we had made this choir sound when I was in, when we were in Sebastopol.

00:53:24.848 –> 00:53:26.748
Porter Robinson: Not even really a choir, but just that’s what I called it.

00:53:26.748 –> 00:53:31.088
Porter Robinson: It was just like me with my voice pitched up and just a little harmony.

00:53:31.088 –> 00:53:35.528
Porter Robinson: And I started trying to chop that up and it sounded really cool.

00:53:35.528 –> 00:53:37.808
Porter Robinson: I added what’s known as like a trance gate effect.

00:53:37.808 –> 00:53:49.348
Porter Robinson: So the trance gate, you know, from trance music, you would hear a lot of those like that kind of sound where it’s just basically volume automation.

00:53:49.348 –> 00:53:51.788
Porter Robinson: It’s the thing turning on and off in a rhythmic way.

00:53:51.788 –> 00:53:59.708
Porter Robinson: And I thought, well, that would be kind of interesting to have here what feels like this kind of pop rock world.

00:53:59.708 –> 00:54:04.708
Porter Robinson: And you know, the trance gate has been so massively popular in the last few years as well.

00:54:04.708 –> 00:54:08.868
Porter Robinson: It’s kind of had its own, it’s come and gone, I think, in the dance music context.

00:54:08.868 –> 00:54:12.248
Porter Robinson: But I wanted to do it in kind of a rock music context.

00:54:12.248 –> 00:54:13.668
Porter Robinson: So I ended up with this sound.

00:54:18.728 –> 00:54:19.948
John Kennedy: And that is your voice.

00:54:19.948 –> 00:54:21.468
Porter Robinson: Yeah, that’s me.

00:54:21.468 –> 00:54:27.468
Porter Robinson: It’s been significantly pitched up and altered, but I just wanted to make it as like, wispy and angelic.

00:54:27.468 –> 00:54:33.108
Porter Robinson: And so I think it’s like my voice pitched up with some formant shifting, really massive wall of reverb.

00:54:33.108 –> 00:54:40.888
Porter Robinson: And then the trance gate happens after that in the sequence so that the reverb is getting turned on and off by that gating effect as well.

00:54:40.888 –> 00:54:46.448
Porter Robinson: So you get this thing that sounds a little bit like, there’s a strobe light going off in your face in slow motion or something like.

00:54:55.769 –> 00:55:00.009
Porter Robinson: And there’s a little guitar of me, I’m boom boom, do do do.

00:55:00.009 –> 00:55:10.949
Porter Robinson: And yeah, so once I had this sound, I sent it to the friend group, and they’re like, I don’t know, the old one was like, the old hook that we had was kinda cool.

00:55:10.949 –> 00:55:14.929
Porter Robinson: And I was like, nah, trust, I promise you this is the one.

00:55:14.929 –> 00:55:25.269
Porter Robinson: I think some people in my world felt like this trick was a little old hat for me because my previous record had a lot of my voice pitched up, but I was like, I know this is so cool.

00:55:25.269 –> 00:55:29.929
Porter Robinson: And I’ll just do a quick tour as well of just like the things you can’t hear that are happening in here.

00:55:31.049 –> 00:55:32.649
Porter Robinson: I’ll turn it way up.

00:55:36.529 –> 00:55:39.329
Porter Robinson: And then this is almost redundant with that.

00:55:42.509 –> 00:55:44.649
John Kennedy: And what are all those sounds?

00:55:44.649 –> 00:55:50.809
Porter Robinson: So this first one, I think it’s like an Omnisphere patch.

00:55:50.849 –> 00:55:53.629
Porter Robinson: It may have even just been a preset.

00:55:53.629 –> 00:56:00.769
Porter Robinson: Just kind of putting in the notes of the chord that feel like they’re missing and just kind of creating a wall of sound.

00:56:00.769 –> 00:56:03.009
Porter Robinson: This one as well.

00:56:03.009 –> 00:56:05.269
Porter Robinson: I think it’s just a little Omnisphere Arp.

00:56:05.269 –> 00:56:16.629
Porter Robinson: This first one, I think this sound was a recording of me playing the piano in Sebastopol that we put through some an amp simulator and like reversed and cut up.

00:56:21.529 –> 00:56:24.329
Porter Robinson: That was the very first sound that we had at the very first demo.

00:56:25.609 –> 00:56:36.009
Porter Robinson: Then there’s like a little, I think I took a piano and I put it through this FL Studio plugin called Harmor, which has like a resynthesis function.

00:56:36.009 –> 00:56:44.349
Porter Robinson: It’s like an additive synthesizer and I took these piano notes pitched on way up and I was playing with the formant on it.

00:56:44.409 –> 00:56:45.709
Porter Robinson: So it goes like.

00:56:49.469 –> 00:56:52.949
Porter Robinson: So all those put together, you just had a total mess.

00:56:56.369 –> 00:57:00.769
Porter Robinson: But kind of a cool soundscape, you know, and then you get the guitars behind that.

00:57:06.409 –> 00:57:07.969
Porter Robinson: And you kind of have something really beautiful.

00:57:19.295 –> 00:57:24.655
John Kennedy: I was just going to say, I think it complements all those lines about I remember, know really well.

00:57:24.835 –> 00:57:28.795
John Kennedy: It’s like you’re taking us back in time a little with that little musical section.

00:57:28.795 –> 00:57:39.335
Porter Robinson: Yeah, I think I tend to, even if I, because all this was made before I realized that the song was about nostalgia, but it was just like, I think that’s my tendency in everything anyway.

00:57:40.355 –> 00:57:45.415
Porter Robinson: So then the Trance Gate comes back later for the pre-chorus on My Natural Voice, it goes.

00:58:01.600 –> 00:58:04.920
Porter Robinson: And I think there’s versions of my voice pitched up.

00:58:06.940 –> 00:58:13.980
Porter Robinson: So I recorded this an octave down and then pitched it back into my normal range just to get a slightly different timbre.

00:58:13.980 –> 00:58:15.860
Porter Robinson: Pan stereo left and right.

00:58:17.720 –> 00:58:25.440
John Kennedy: And when you’re recording vocals Porter, I mean, do you have a go-to setup that you always use or do you just like grab a mic and just sing or?

00:58:25.440 –> 00:58:26.840
Porter Robinson: Yeah, this is embarrassing.

00:58:26.960 –> 00:58:29.560
Porter Robinson: I don’t even know what my what is this?

00:58:29.560 –> 00:58:30.460
Porter Robinson: This is a warm.

00:58:30.460 –> 00:58:36.240
Porter Robinson: I use a warm audio clone of that really expensive 60s mic that everyone uses.

00:58:36.240 –> 00:58:36.720
Porter Robinson: What is it?

00:58:36.720 –> 00:58:38.560
Porter Robinson: It’s a.

00:58:38.560 –> 00:58:40.880
Porter Robinson: I’m so not a gear person.

00:58:40.880 –> 00:58:44.620
Porter Robinson: I just like I watched a YouTube video that had a mic shoot out.

00:58:44.620 –> 00:58:48.460
Porter Robinson: And the one that sounded the brightest was the one that I grabbed.

00:58:48.460 –> 00:58:49.900
Porter Robinson: And yeah, so it really is for me.

00:58:49.900 –> 00:58:54.580
Porter Robinson: It’s like I believe that 99 percent of it is the content and then the post-processing.

00:58:55.320 –> 00:59:07.160
Porter Robinson: I’m not a big person that obsesses over preamps or I just think that you can you can start with the world’s worst performance and chop it up and add effects and make it into something really beautiful.

00:59:07.160 –> 00:59:17.540
Porter Robinson: You know, I’m a really big believer in post-processing and I approach since the same way to like I’ll just start with a normal saw wave and the stuff I had after is what gives it the character.

00:59:17.540 –> 00:59:22.320
Porter Robinson: So I feel like I have it’s a bad answer, but I well, yeah, it is.

00:59:22.680 –> 00:59:23.580
John Kennedy: No, it’s fair enough.

00:59:23.580 –> 00:59:33.960
John Kennedy: I mean, this is about trying to find out how you do it because you create something that is special and unique to you, you know, and people will be inspired by that without question.

00:59:33.960 –> 00:59:38.620
John Kennedy: And so that processing, I mean, you able to show us some of that processing that you would use.

00:59:38.620 –> 00:59:39.480
Porter Robinson: Oh, sure, sure.

00:59:39.480 –> 00:59:40.280
Porter Robinson: Yeah, I am.

00:59:40.280 –> 00:59:42.340
Porter Robinson: So this is a this project file.

00:59:42.340 –> 00:59:48.280
Porter Robinson: The only one that I was able to recover was kind of the, I think this was like the 6.0.

00:59:48.280 –> 00:59:54.120
Porter Robinson: So this has a completely different verse, which I will, I will play some of that because I think that will be interesting for people to hear.

00:59:54.120 –> 00:59:56.680
Porter Robinson: Well, let’s see, what is this version?

00:59:56.680 –> 00:59:59.300
Porter Robinson: Oh yeah, so this, the project file is a bit broken.

01:00:01.160 –> 01:00:06.020
Porter Robinson: It doesn’t have the Trance Gate on, maybe I can recreate something similar to it.

01:00:06.020 –> 01:00:14.380
Porter Robinson: I think I was using the Kill Hearts Trance Gate and I had to like, I turned it up to 32 steps here so I could get a slightly long pattern because otherwise it would go.

01:00:21.180 –> 01:00:24.820
Porter Robinson: I’m jamming myself, but I needed a longer pattern to get the rhythm that I wanted.

01:00:24.820 –> 01:00:29.900
Porter Robinson: So it’s like, let’s see, I think it would be like this.

01:00:34.540 –> 01:00:35.540
Porter Robinson: The pattern is close to that.

01:00:35.540 –> 01:00:44.220
Porter Robinson: And then I don’t have my plugin that I usually use for pitching up stuff, it’s called Manipulator, but I can kind of do an approximation of that in the playlist.

01:00:44.420 –> 01:00:45.100
Porter Robinson: Really quickly.

01:00:45.100 –> 01:00:55.120
Porter Robinson: So if I, you stretch Pro Mode here and I just take it up the octave, and then I’m playing with the formant controls here in FL Studio.

01:00:55.120 –> 01:00:56.700
Porter Robinson: So you can kind of go.

01:00:59.620 –> 01:01:05.140
Porter Robinson: And I think for my voice, there’s a sweet spot of about plus three, plus three semitones in the formant.

01:01:12.052 –> 01:01:16.632
Porter Robinson: And then, again, I’m missing all of my, I’m missing my Chris Lord algae stuff here.

01:01:16.632 –> 01:01:22.532
Porter Robinson: All this stuff is not loading, because this is like, I just took the old project and opened it on a new computer that has just different stuff.

01:01:22.532 –> 01:01:26.652
Porter Robinson: But I’ve got the demo mode of Torverb here on this new computer.

01:01:27.872 –> 01:01:29.592
Porter Robinson: It would be something like this.

01:01:31.972 –> 01:01:35.992
Porter Robinson: And to me, this sound also feels like it’s missing like a little bit of high end.

01:01:35.992 –> 01:01:43.092
Porter Robinson: So I might like, I might add a multi-band compressor here and kind of squeeze up the high end.

01:01:50.388 –> 01:01:56.048
Porter Robinson: And so, it would be something like that.

01:01:56.048 –> 01:02:02.308
Porter Robinson: And I realized it was lacking some low end, so I added another layer underneath it.

01:02:02.308 –> 01:02:10.208
Porter Robinson: But yeah, I think in general, when I’m working, my goal is to be as fast as possible, and I do lots of quick and dirty solutions for stuff that ends up in the final thing.

01:02:10.208 –> 01:02:21.688
Porter Robinson: Like what I just did there is like, I want it a little tighter and brighter, so I’m just like gonna grab the opening preset of the multi-band compressor and just grab the high end and just pull it up.

01:02:21.688 –> 01:02:26.288
Porter Robinson: And then on lead vocals the main thing I would say is sing it till you get it.

01:02:26.288 –> 01:02:34.688
Porter Robinson: Like that’s the beauty of working in a studio is that you have infinite tries until, unless you die, you have infinite tries.

01:02:34.688 –> 01:02:39.888
Porter Robinson: Unless you die or run out of time, you have infinite tries, and I think anybody can be a good singer in that context.

01:02:39.888 –> 01:02:45.268
Porter Robinson: So I just record and record and record and record and record until I can cut something up that sounds the way that I like.

01:02:45.268 –> 01:03:07.328
Porter Robinson: And it’s, to me that’s the beauty of digital is that like the combination of autotune and vocal comping and infinite attempts, it allows people like me who are maybe not like, I don’t see myself as a singer singer, I don’t see myself as like a great player, but I think my taste is great.

01:03:07.328 –> 01:03:12.968
Porter Robinson: And I think that my desire to make something good is really, really, really strong.

01:03:12.968 –> 01:03:20.248
Porter Robinson: And so I will sit there and refine it and refine it and refine it until it is making me happy.

01:03:20.248 –> 01:03:25.648
Porter Robinson: And I think that’s just like, that’s one of the reasons I celebrate new tools and conveniences coming out.

01:03:25.648 –> 01:03:28.128
Porter Robinson: Obviously, we lose something along the way.

01:03:28.128 –> 01:03:33.548
Porter Robinson: And it’s a great thing that people recognize that and some artists will do things the old way.

01:03:33.548 –> 01:03:43.888
Porter Robinson: And they’ll gain, they’ll, people who do things without the modern conveniences will absolutely have triumphs and breakthroughs that you would lose by doing things the cheated way.

01:03:44.548 –> 01:03:54.608
Porter Robinson: But I’m really happy that the world has opened up in such a way that all kinds of people and all kinds of people at different levels of ability can kind of get their ideas on paper.

01:03:54.948 –> 01:03:56.868
Porter Robinson: That’s a beautiful thing to me.

01:03:56.868 –> 01:03:57.848
John Kennedy: Yeah, totally.

01:03:58.468 –> 01:04:00.108
John Kennedy: And it brings us something new.

01:04:00.108 –> 01:04:00.928
John Kennedy: It’s fascinating.

01:04:00.928 –> 01:04:02.208
John Kennedy: Is there anything else we should hear?

01:04:02.208 –> 01:04:06.028
John Kennedy: Or maybe we should have a blast of the master and move on to the next song?

01:04:06.028 –> 01:04:07.128
Porter Robinson: Yeah, if it’s all right.

01:04:07.128 –> 01:04:09.988
Porter Robinson: I did want to play this demo version because I was really excited.

01:04:09.988 –> 01:04:12.108
Porter Robinson: I found this yesterday preparing for today’s interview.

01:04:12.668 –> 01:04:16.008
Porter Robinson: And I found an alternative verse, so.

01:04:16.008 –> 01:04:17.608
John Kennedy: So which demo is this?

01:04:17.608 –> 01:04:20.008
John Kennedy: From which point of the journey?

01:04:20.008 –> 01:04:24.828
Porter Robinson: So this would have been right before I figured out the final verse.

01:04:24.828 –> 01:04:27.208
Porter Robinson: Yeah, I think I had the chorus at this point.

01:04:27.208 –> 01:04:37.468
Porter Robinson: I kind of call this one the Coldplay one because like the Killers, all the most famous musical acts of all time with guitars were a novelty to me.

01:04:37.468 –> 01:04:44.268
Porter Robinson: And this is going to sound this is also going to sound like such a lie because every like EDM artist has like fake Coldplay vocals in their music.

01:04:44.268 –> 01:04:51.808
Porter Robinson: Like there were so many progressive house dance music, Ultra Music Festival anthems that had like vocals that were trying to sound like Chris Martin.

01:04:51.808 –> 01:04:56.968
Porter Robinson: I was just never a big Coldplay guy and I have grown to love Coldplay so dearly in the last three years.

01:04:56.968 –> 01:05:05.108
Porter Robinson: I’m so happy I did not live in the period of time where everybody was kind of shitting on Coldplay because I know it would have hurt me because I think that they’re great and I’ve always been great.

01:05:05.108 –> 01:05:08.168
Porter Robinson: But I was like I wanted to write a song that sounded a bit like yellow.

01:05:09.128 –> 01:05:13.228
Porter Robinson: And I think this was the kind of like my attempt at that.

01:05:13.228 –> 01:05:17.108
Porter Robinson: So this was a, this might even be a different verse.

01:05:17.108 –> 01:05:17.928
Porter Robinson: Hold on, hold on.

01:05:18.088 –> 01:05:19.008
Porter Robinson: This is a different verse.

01:05:19.008 –> 01:05:24.088
Porter Robinson: This was me, there is a Coldplayism in this chorus because I added some guitars that are very Coldplay.

01:05:24.088 –> 01:05:32.028
Porter Robinson: But this was me trying to use Jimmy’s verse melody from our very 1.0 demo and rewrite the lyrics into Porter World.

01:05:32.028 –> 01:05:32.808
Porter Robinson: So it was like this.

01:06:40.616 –> 01:06:43.856
Porter Robinson: So, you can kind of hear the attempt at like the yellow guitar here.

01:06:45.916 –> 01:06:53.156
Porter Robinson: If I mute the vocals, there’s like me hearing yellow for the first time and being like, this is, you know what, this is a really great song.

01:06:53.156 –> 01:06:55.596
Porter Robinson: Some people, the world ought to hear this.

01:07:00.756 –> 01:07:07.496
Porter Robinson: So, yeah, this was, you know, this is what this was a song that I made like a hundred attempts at.

01:07:07.496 –> 01:07:12.516
Porter Robinson: And yeah, this was a demo that I’d forgotten until yesterday with an alternate verse.

01:07:12.516 –> 01:07:13.616
John Kennedy: Yeah, I love it.

01:07:13.616 –> 01:07:14.916
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:07:14.916 –> 01:07:18.036
John Kennedy: Can we have a blast of the master and then we can move on to our next track?

01:08:27.423 –> 01:08:28.503
John Kennedy: I really like that voice.

01:08:28.503 –> 01:08:29.923
John Kennedy: Whose voice is that?

01:08:29.923 –> 01:08:32.223
Porter Robinson: So it’s actually me.

01:08:32.223 –> 01:08:34.983
Porter Robinson: Yeah, through a bit of, through some processing.

01:08:34.983 –> 01:09:00.123
Porter Robinson: I felt like the chord progression of the ending had this, again, sort of nostalgic feel where it reminded me of, for me, like the end of a, this would happen a lot with like Japanese animation that you’d see on TV, where there would be like a coming up on the next episode section at the end of the episode where they would show little snippets of dialogue from the next episode, oftentimes with like emotional music playing before it.

01:09:00.123 –> 01:09:05.963
Porter Robinson: So without this vocal, I was like this really, the movement of this chord progression feels like coming up on the next episode or something like that.

01:09:05.963 –> 01:09:08.443
Porter Robinson: Like, sorry, I’ll turn it off.

01:09:10.923 –> 01:09:17.043
Porter Robinson: Especially when it comes to this descending bass line that happens here, this next bit.

01:09:23.247 –> 01:09:32.407
Porter Robinson: The chords that are implied there feel just super nostalgic to me, so I wanted something that felt like it was like snippets of dialogue from the next episode or something like that.

01:09:32.407 –> 01:09:40.407
Porter Robinson: And so, I just kind of talked into the mic for a while and kind of gave myself a little bit of, it says this.

01:09:40.407 –> 01:09:44.087
Porter Robinson: You know, Porter, some people die of nostalgia.

01:09:46.107 –> 01:09:47.727
John Kennedy: So you better look out.

01:09:49.587 –> 01:09:50.747
Porter Robinson: Just kidding.

01:09:54.107 –> 01:09:55.227
Porter Robinson: Good one.

01:09:55.227 –> 01:09:57.667
Porter Robinson: It actually sounds insanely annoying to me in isolation.

01:09:57.667 –> 01:09:59.727
Porter Robinson: Like the tone of it sounds really annoying to me.

01:09:59.727 –> 01:10:05.447
Porter Robinson: But I think like against the music, it’s just this like little warning about the dangers of nostalgia.

01:10:05.447 –> 01:10:11.767
Porter Robinson: Because it is, I do think there’s a, it’s like a spell that you can fall for and never escape from.

01:10:11.767 –> 01:10:14.567
Porter Robinson: I see people who get extremely, it’s like a drug.

01:10:14.567 –> 01:10:19.827
Porter Robinson: I see people who get lost in nostalgia and then can never see their way out of it.

01:10:19.827 –> 01:10:26.247
Porter Robinson: They’re constantly pining for the specific thing that is no longer and never will be accessible to them ever again.

01:10:26.247 –> 01:10:34.467
Porter Robinson: And it can make them sort of like doggedly refuse to see the world as it is and refuse to update their tastes, their ambitions, their loves.

01:10:34.467 –> 01:10:37.207
Porter Robinson: I just think it’s like it can be a very dangerous spell.

01:10:37.207 –> 01:10:39.147
Porter Robinson: So that’s what the dialogue is about there.

01:10:39.147 –> 01:10:44.647
Porter Robinson: It’s like you better, like I have a nostalgic tendency, but you better look out because some people die of nostalgia.

01:10:45.207 –> 01:10:49.027
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, you bring us a lot of wisdom on this record, I think Porter.

01:10:49.027 –> 01:10:50.827
John Kennedy: No, it’s good to get.

01:10:50.827 –> 01:10:54.967
John Kennedy: We’re going to take another quick break and then we’re going to have a look at Russian Roulette.

01:10:57.527 –> 01:11:02.187
John Kennedy: This episode is being supported by Tape It, the iPhone recording app for musicians.

01:11:02.187 –> 01:11:12.027
John Kennedy: As many of the fantastic artists and producers on Tape Notes have mentioned, recording voice memos, field recordings and capturing ideas on the go is crucial to the creative process and Tape It makes it effortless.

01:11:12.667 –> 01:11:24.107
John Kennedy: With Tape It, you can record straight from your lock screen, capture ideas in stereo, choose between multiple recording formats, drop markers to highlight key moments and create shared mixtapes with friends and collaborators.

01:11:24.107 –> 01:11:25.907
John Kennedy: You can even view your recordings on a map.

01:11:25.907 –> 01:11:31.307
John Kennedy: Whether it’s a quick melody or a full song idea, Tape It helps you stay creative without the clutter.

01:11:31.307 –> 01:11:38.187
John Kennedy: So click the link in a recent episode Show Notes or head to tape.it forward slash Tape Notes to download Tape It for free.

01:11:38.187 –> 01:11:43.687
John Kennedy: And for even more, check out Tape It Pro and use promo code TapeNotes for 20% off.

01:11:43.687 –> 01:11:46.147
John Kennedy: That’s Tape.It forward slash Tape Notes.

01:11:46.147 –> 01:11:48.087
John Kennedy: Now on with the show.

01:11:50.627 –> 01:11:56.587
John Kennedy: And the next song we’re going to look at from Smile is Russian Roulette, the epic Russian Roulette.

01:11:56.587 –> 01:12:02.007
John Kennedy: So Porter, if you play A Blast of the Master, we can find out then how you created it.

01:13:11.703 –> 01:13:18.403
John Kennedy: So, A Little Taste of Russian Roulette by Porter Robinson from Smile, and this one twists and turns all over the place, Porter.

01:13:18.403 –> 01:13:19.943
John Kennedy: Was it created in sections?

01:13:19.943 –> 01:13:28.143
John Kennedy: Was it created in one kind of splurge of unleashing your inner thoughts?

01:13:28.143 –> 01:13:45.483
Porter Robinson: Yeah, this was technically the longest trajectory for one of these songs because this was made over the course of, the first initial demo from this was something I made in 2021, which I believe I can find that right here.

01:13:45.483 –> 01:13:46.563
Tony: I think it’s this bit here.

01:13:57.707 –> 01:14:04.647
Porter Robinson: So that little synth in there was me trying to create what I thought would be the vocal melody.

01:14:04.647 –> 01:14:09.027
Porter Robinson: And there is a tiny layer of that still, actually, I think in the final recording.

01:14:09.027 –> 01:14:11.627
Porter Robinson: I think it’s, let’s see, this is the guitars.

01:14:11.627 –> 01:14:13.067
Porter Robinson: Where are the synths?

01:14:13.067 –> 01:14:17.047
Porter Robinson: Unfortunately for this one, I only have the stems, but it’s in there somewhere.

01:14:17.047 –> 01:14:19.727
Porter Robinson: It’s like, let’s see, I think, is it this?

01:14:19.727 –> 01:14:20.487
Porter Robinson: Yeah, here it is.

01:14:20.487 –> 01:14:24.807
Porter Robinson: So very quietly, that demo lives in this way.

01:14:31.916 –> 01:14:33.236
Porter Robinson: And in context, that’s…

01:14:38.656 –> 01:14:41.876
Porter Robinson: It’s like not even really in there.

01:14:41.876 –> 01:14:42.356
John Kennedy: But it is.

01:14:42.856 –> 01:14:44.216
Porter Robinson: Yeah.

01:14:44.216 –> 01:14:49.716
Porter Robinson: But yeah, this one, this was another one that began with the synth hook, and I made this sound.

01:14:51.316 –> 01:14:53.296
Porter Robinson: I thought it was interesting, I thought the note choices were interesting, like…

01:14:56.336 –> 01:15:00.876
Porter Robinson: I just, it felt like it had a kind of like, kind of uneasy, but still hooky energy.

01:15:07.890 –> 01:15:14.990
Porter Robinson: And yeah, it was another one of those little clips that just made me go, ah, I want more of this, I want more of this world.

01:15:14.990 –> 01:15:17.910
Porter Robinson: Yeah, let’s see what else is in there.

01:15:19.910 –> 01:15:25.490
Porter Robinson: I think this is also from that initial demo, these drums here, just high-pass filtered.

01:15:27.390 –> 01:15:28.830
Porter Robinson: Actually, no, you know what, it is different.

01:15:28.990 –> 01:15:30.650
Porter Robinson: It’s different drums, but it’s the same idea.

01:15:30.650 –> 01:15:34.230
Porter Robinson: It’s just the eighth note kicks only relenting for the snare.

01:15:37.190 –> 01:15:41.570
Porter Robinson: So that song was called Snowblind for a while, and it turned into this.

01:15:41.570 –> 01:15:50.590
Porter Robinson: This was the second demo, and this was, I think, recorded into my laptop at the time, speakers.

01:15:51.130 –> 01:15:56.490
Porter Robinson: I had a very temporary setup, and I was like, I got to get this vocal melody down, so it sounds all kinds of weird.

01:16:06.535 –> 01:16:10.275
Porter Robinson: You can hear me like I’ve melodined to the hell out of it, trying to figure out the vocal melody.

01:16:10.275 –> 01:16:17.275
Porter Robinson: And then I had this temporary chorus as well that is based on these notes from this.

01:16:17.275 –> 01:16:17.555
Porter Robinson: It goes.

01:16:22.775 –> 01:16:25.595
Porter Robinson: I think this was the first chorus, this chorus.

01:16:55.533 –> 01:17:11.433
Porter Robinson: And, you know, it was like, I was like, well, that is a chorus, but it just, it wasn’t, I felt like this was the, this was feeling like the filler track on the album to me for the longest time, because I think the chorus wasn’t making me happy, and it wasn’t super meaningful.

01:17:11.433 –> 01:17:16.593
Porter Robinson: It was saying like, if I close my eyes, I can feel it snowing, something like that.

01:17:16.593 –> 01:17:18.093
Porter Robinson: I’m too young to die, something like that.

01:17:18.093 –> 01:17:21.053
Porter Robinson: And I was like, I would play it for people, and they’d be like, oh, this is cool.

01:17:21.053 –> 01:17:23.413
Porter Robinson: I never ever would have considered making this a single.

01:17:24.073 –> 01:17:27.933
Porter Robinson: And this is the song that closes out this album in the live show.

01:17:27.933 –> 01:17:30.393
Porter Robinson: And then I was writing another song.

01:17:30.393 –> 01:17:37.973
Porter Robinson: I was like writing a kind of like sort of sads, you know, Phoebe Bridgers, like guitar thing.

01:17:37.973 –> 01:17:41.833
Porter Robinson: And I wrote this chorus that became the final course of the song.

01:18:20.569 –> 01:18:32.869
Porter Robinson: I think the reason that this clicked with me so much more was, I was going through a period when I was working on this where I felt like I had called the entire future of my career into question.

01:18:35.929 –> 01:18:50.469
Porter Robinson: Each record has been a big change, and this one was another really massive one where I think people knew me as a DJ in the past, and as more of a producer, and I really wanted to sing and be in the front and write songs.

01:18:50.469 –> 01:19:12.989
Porter Robinson: I wanted to be known for songs, and I had done a deal with Live Nation for this massive tour, it was going to be my biggest tour yet, and this was finished as some of the songs were already starting to roll out, and the pressure of success on each of them was becoming more and more real.

01:19:13.209 –> 01:19:19.789
Porter Robinson: It was like, I’m like watching the streaming numbers go up, and I’m like, am I going to be able to fill all of these rooms?

01:19:19.789 –> 01:19:23.269
Porter Robinson: Like, am I deserving of any of this?

01:19:23.269 –> 01:19:26.009
Porter Robinson: I was really, really scared for a while, you know?

01:19:26.009 –> 01:19:34.809
Porter Robinson: It was like, I would get these freaked out calls from people on my team being like, you need to be posting more, and I was like, I have nothing to say, I have nothing to post.

01:19:34.809 –> 01:19:41.709
Porter Robinson: Like, you know, you’re playing the Hollywood Bowl this time, and I’m like so scared, the show’s not going to do well.

01:19:42.669 –> 01:19:48.129
Porter Robinson: And, you know, I had just like spent massive amounts of money on music videos and stuff like that.

01:19:48.129 –> 01:19:51.929
Porter Robinson: And there were all these like hard conversations happening in my world.

01:19:51.929 –> 01:19:59.209
Porter Robinson: So I started thinking about each album as sort of like a game of Russian roulette.

01:19:59.209 –> 01:20:10.789
Porter Robinson: Like, when your whole life is music, and your whole life is consumed by your career, and everything kind of hinges on other people’s approval, but you want to pursue something new constantly.

01:20:11.149 –> 01:20:21.669
Porter Robinson: And the only thing that gets you out of bed, that real love and that real passion and that desire to follow the love to its natural end, it’s a tender thing.

01:20:21.669 –> 01:20:26.229
Porter Robinson: And it’s hard to get that to coexist with the kind of commercial needs of everything.

01:20:26.229 –> 01:20:34.389
Porter Robinson: You know, like I often fantasize about like getting rid of everything and just making songs by myself.

01:20:34.389 –> 01:20:42.429
Porter Robinson: And I’m always imagining casting off all the pressures of the previous project and casting off all the aesthetic elements and doing something completely new, right?

01:20:42.429 –> 01:20:47.689
Porter Robinson: But at this point in my life, I have like 10 salaried employees.

01:20:47.689 –> 01:20:54.729
Porter Robinson: I have people whose I’ve got like a management team that they need me making money, I’ve got a label.

01:20:54.789 –> 01:21:10.429
Porter Robinson: Like this song was me reckoning with the reality of my fantasy of being completely free and being free of all pressure and being able to do whatever I want recklessly without consequence.

01:21:10.429 –> 01:21:12.829
Porter Robinson: But I can’t really do that.

01:21:12.829 –> 01:21:25.529
Porter Robinson: So by gambling with my music and by gambling with my style and by changing so drastically and alienating tons of people with every album, which I have done every time, it feels like I’m gambling with my life.

01:21:25.529 –> 01:21:34.069
Porter Robinson: It feels like I’m betting everything on the thing that I’ve constructed the last 15 years of my life around and it’s really scary.

01:21:34.069 –> 01:21:37.249
Porter Robinson: So the song had no real meaning before that.

01:21:37.329 –> 01:21:39.969
Porter Robinson: Once I made the song about, it’s weird.

01:21:39.969 –> 01:21:50.449
Porter Robinson: It didn’t click with me as anything more than mediocre until I made it really truthful and put some vulnerability on the line.

01:21:50.449 –> 01:21:52.689
John Kennedy: Yeah, completely.

01:21:52.689 –> 01:21:56.389
John Kennedy: It’s absolutely fascinating this song for so many different reasons.

01:21:56.389 –> 01:22:15.249
John Kennedy: One of them being the words and the lyrics and the story that you tell, which is so open and honest and quite revealing about the situation that you find yourself in and quite revealing about the wider situation of being an artist and trying to turn art into a living and what that involves and all that kind of stuff.

01:22:15.249 –> 01:22:25.709
John Kennedy: But what I also love is that you’ve created a really kind of catchy song, but you also then take it on a six and a half minute journey, and it breaks down in the middle.

01:22:26.089 –> 01:22:33.749
John Kennedy: It’s almost as if you’ve gone beyond crisis point because you’re thinking, well, you know, what does that all mean?

01:22:33.749 –> 01:22:36.249
John Kennedy: And why do I need to have all this pressure?

01:22:36.249 –> 01:22:48.109
John Kennedy: But your response to it is to create something that won’t fit in those confines of being in a box or being a ready made meal, as it were, that can be easily consumed.

01:22:48.109 –> 01:23:08.449
John Kennedy: Instead, it’s an artistic statement, you know, and you stretch it as far as you feel you need to and explore this musical journey that you take yourself on it and that take us on as well, which is really exciting and it’s kind of amazing that you’ve managed to do that, you know, because that’s quite a hard thing to do.

01:23:08.449 –> 01:23:27.449
Porter Robinson: Yeah, it’s so funny you point that out because the length of the song in perfect, is a perfect match for the lyrical themes, ended up being like a big long conversation with the label where they were like, you can’t possibly, you know, expect any kind of playlist placement if you’re coming out with a six and a half minute song.

01:23:27.449 –> 01:23:35.309
Porter Robinson: And I was like, well, like, think about like Bohemian Rhapsody like Bohemian Rhapsody, like nobody believes it and people like, you think this is Bohemian Rhapsody?

01:23:35.309 –> 01:23:36.909
Porter Robinson: And I was like, I don’t know.

01:23:36.909 –> 01:23:43.749
Porter Robinson: I just like, this is, this is just, I don’t think it’s Bohemian Rhapsody, but I think this is the right thing artistically and creatively.

01:23:43.749 –> 01:24:02.889
Porter Robinson: And yeah, you mentioned that, you know, there’s the middle verses about how, like, you know, I talk about the pitchfork review for that one Jet album, where I think it was the second or third Jet record, they gave it a 0.0 and the content of the review, if you clicked it, was no text at all, but a link to a YouTube video.

01:24:02.889 –> 01:24:08.309
Porter Robinson: And the YouTube video was a video of a monkey urinating on its own face.

01:24:08.309 –> 01:24:13.329
Porter Robinson: I mean, I’ve been on the receiving end of some, like, negative reviews before, too.

01:24:13.689 –> 01:24:20.869
Porter Robinson: And it’s like, for me, my world kind of spiraled, you know, because I think when you’re an artist, you’re sort of getting, you’re getting high off of yourself.

01:24:20.869 –> 01:24:29.589
Porter Robinson: That’s the whole object of it, is to, like, you take yourself to a place you couldn’t think you could go, and you’re trying to make what is the best thing you can possibly do, right?

01:24:29.589 –> 01:24:31.149
Porter Robinson: It’s so personal.

01:24:31.169 –> 01:24:43.469
Porter Robinson: You know, then some guy just kind of shits on it in a very public way for cash, and it’s just a devastating feeling, you know?

01:24:43.469 –> 01:24:54.729
Porter Robinson: And I don’t know, maybe a normal person would be able to deal with it, but I think artists, being the sensitive people that we are, like, it does, a critical reception, it affects you.

01:24:55.469 –> 01:25:03.589
Porter Robinson: And, yeah, so this song, I tried to bring up every subject that is basically naturally invoked by being an artist.

01:25:03.589 –> 01:25:28.989
Porter Robinson: So I talk about how a lot of my people in my life, like my manager, who’s one of my best friends, like gets paid by me, and how I’ve got a tour to sell, and I want to reinvent myself constantly, and I’ve got, like, family, and, you know, there’s like, as the business of it gets bigger, more and more people start to rely on you, and it suddenly becomes a whole lot less free.

01:25:28.989 –> 01:25:32.729
Porter Robinson: But I want to preserve that freedom maybe more than anything else, right?

01:25:32.729 –> 01:25:41.349
Porter Robinson: Like, it’s like, there’s times where I feel like I would give up everything else about this in order to maintain the creative freedom.

01:25:41.349 –> 01:25:49.829
Porter Robinson: And so hence we have this, and I really encourage listeners who aren’t familiar if you’ve made it this far, do listen to the whole song, because I keep thinking about what snippet to play.

01:25:49.829 –> 01:25:59.249
Porter Robinson: The verses are so long, and the instrumental, like, I’m just like, I feel like it’s actually really hard to sum this song up through these little snippets of the demo.

01:25:59.249 –> 01:26:08.069
Porter Robinson: I really encourage you to check it out, because it goes to a lot of places, and I think all of those places are necessary for this song.

01:26:08.069 –> 01:26:09.209
John Kennedy: Yeah, totally.

01:26:09.209 –> 01:26:32.149
John Kennedy: Maybe we could just kind of quickly move through some of those stages, because we heard a bit of the main riff, but then there’s this point where the riff disappears, then it returns about a minute and a half, and then there’s this kind of bridge at about 3 minutes, 20 seconds or three and a half minutes, but that bridge is quite long, isn’t it?

01:26:33.289 –> 01:26:48.969
John Kennedy: The beat disappears completely, there’s this big breakdown, it goes to a guitar, there’s a piano bit, it’s kind of amazing, but then it comes back, and I can understand why you would have it as your set closer, because then about five and a half minutes in, it all kicks off, really.

01:26:48.969 –> 01:26:49.669
Porter Robinson: Right, right.

01:26:50.289 –> 01:26:52.669
Porter Robinson: It’s a bigger version of that production.

01:26:52.669 –> 01:26:55.769
Porter Robinson: Yeah, so you’re exactly right.

01:26:55.769 –> 01:27:08.289
Porter Robinson: We have this intro hook, and then you have this first verse, it’s me smiling for the team as I stare directly into the storm.

01:27:08.289 –> 01:27:22.969
Porter Robinson: So this first verse is me kind of talking about trying to wear a smile as things are the pressures are increasing and there’s more and more that’s needed from me and the awkwardness of my relationships with people who rely on me and all this stuff.

01:27:22.969 –> 01:27:33.509
Porter Robinson: Then the chorus is just about me trying to cast all that away, and then I close my eyes, gamble with my life, try not to smile, maybe this time I won’t be all right.

01:27:33.509 –> 01:27:34.729
Porter Robinson: Which is such a real feeling.

01:27:34.729 –> 01:27:46.449
Porter Robinson: It’s like I’ve done this before, I’ve bet everything on a new sound or a new project and every time my own fans are telling me that I fell off and that this is the end for me.

01:27:46.449 –> 01:27:52.769
Porter Robinson: And then lots of my fans are supportive, but there’s just always a group of people that want to hear me do the previous thing again.

01:27:52.769 –> 01:27:54.629
Porter Robinson: And it’s always the era right before.

01:27:54.629 –> 01:28:00.629
Porter Robinson: So it’s like the concept gets proven again and again, and yet it’s hard for me to believe it every time.

01:28:00.629 –> 01:28:03.389
Porter Robinson: And so then you’ve got this chorus, yeah.

01:28:03.389 –> 01:28:05.429
Porter Robinson: Maybe this time it won’t be all right.

01:28:09.209 –> 01:28:10.189
Porter Robinson: Then you’ve got the hook.

01:28:11.569 –> 01:28:14.289
Porter Robinson: Just kind of bring us back to our main theme.

01:28:14.289 –> 01:28:22.429
Porter Robinson: So then you’ve got this kind of irreverent second verse where I talk about Monkey takes a piss into its own face with the Pitchfork review.

01:28:24.049 –> 01:28:28.049
Porter Robinson: Just sort of trying to make a joke out of it, just to stay sane, you know.

01:28:28.049 –> 01:28:34.549
Porter Robinson: And then there’s this mini bridge, which is talking kind of about the absurdity of living through the Internet age.

01:28:41.380 –> 01:28:45.360
Porter Robinson: And then, so I can’t wait to get into this section.

01:28:45.360 –> 01:28:47.700
Porter Robinson: So you get this kind of down chorus.

01:28:47.700 –> 01:28:49.480
Porter Robinson: And this is me thinking about Coldplay again.

01:28:49.480 –> 01:28:52.780
Porter Robinson: I thought about the organ from Fix You.

01:28:54.360 –> 01:28:58.600
Porter Robinson: And I just thought, an organ really evokes like a funeral for me.

01:28:58.600 –> 01:29:04.260
Porter Robinson: And so with the idea of like Russian Roulette, I thought that that would be kind of poignant.

01:29:16.396 –> 01:29:32.236
Porter Robinson: And I think also, I couldn’t help but through this song, like think about the subject of suicide, because you’re talking about Russian Roulette, you’re talking about gambling with your life, you’re talking about maybe this time it won’t be all right.

01:29:32.236 –> 01:29:39.196
Porter Robinson: I felt like, there’s times where I want to worship creativity like a religion.

01:29:39.196 –> 01:29:43.576
Porter Robinson: There’s times where I want to sacrifice everything else in pursuit of it.

01:29:44.596 –> 01:29:57.616
Porter Robinson: And yet, there’s this bit that’s nagging at me that’s like, if I’m in this song, if I’m going to talk about anything that even comes close to the subject of suicide, I better say what I mean about this and I better talk about it.

01:29:57.616 –> 01:30:03.316
Porter Robinson: Because it would be irresponsible not to.

01:30:03.316 –> 01:30:14.056
Porter Robinson: And it’s funny because one of my goals for this album was to shed all notion of responsibility and be irreverent and not be sensitive and be loud and be bold.

01:30:14.056 –> 01:30:24.676
Porter Robinson: And yet there’s this still very real part of me nagging me that goes like, well, let’s talk about it for a second because I can’t stop thinking about it with this song and I would hate for anyone to get the wrong idea.

01:30:24.676 –> 01:30:30.976
Porter Robinson: So the idea of this section is, and this may be heavy for Tape Notes, but let’s get into it.

01:30:33.396 –> 01:30:35.256
Porter Robinson: There’s one person who’s gone around giving talks.

01:30:35.256 –> 01:30:38.356
Porter Robinson: He’s one of very few people that survived jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.

01:30:38.956 –> 01:30:51.936
Porter Robinson: And one of the things that he said was that the moment he jumped, he realized that every problem in his life that he was running away from was fixable, except for the fact that he had just jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge.

01:30:51.936 –> 01:30:52.796
John Kennedy: Right.

01:30:52.936 –> 01:30:54.016
John Kennedy: Wow.

01:30:54.016 –> 01:30:56.876
Porter Robinson: Yeah, and he was lucky enough to survive.

01:30:56.876 –> 01:30:59.076
Porter Robinson: It’s a beautiful, beautiful thing.

01:30:59.076 –> 01:31:10.776
Porter Robinson: And so my prompt for this section of the song was, if I found myself midair, what would my last thoughts be?

01:31:10.776 –> 01:31:12.376
Porter Robinson: What would I really regret, you know?

01:31:12.376 –> 01:31:15.236
Porter Robinson: And so all the lyrics here, it’s like, I want to see my mom one more time.

01:31:15.236 –> 01:31:16.916
Porter Robinson: I want to play my songs one more time.

01:31:17.076 –> 01:31:17.636
Porter Robinson: I want to play the best.

01:31:32.350 –> 01:31:35.210
Porter Robinson: I just talk about everything that I’ve missed, you know?

01:31:35.850 –> 01:31:40.810
Porter Robinson: And I know we want to get into the production, why this sounds the way it does.

01:31:40.810 –> 01:31:49.190
Porter Robinson: But I think that meaning and production are actually inextricable, especially when you’re the person doing both.

01:31:49.190 –> 01:31:54.710
Porter Robinson: So part of the reason it sounds that way is because of the things that are on my heart.

01:31:54.710 –> 01:32:01.490
Porter Robinson: And so the way that this bit got recorded was I knew I wanted it to sound not overproduced.

01:32:01.890 –> 01:32:06.430
Porter Robinson: I didn’t want it to sound too clean or too dry, so we recorded everything from really far away.

01:32:06.430 –> 01:32:09.850
Porter Robinson: This is like one of the only real amps on the album.

01:32:09.850 –> 01:32:11.810
Porter Robinson: This was actually a mic’d amp.

01:32:15.890 –> 01:32:19.490
Porter Robinson: And this is me like not really knowing how to play guitar.

01:32:22.790 –> 01:32:25.210
Porter Robinson: But the chords are there, you know, and that’s really what matters.

01:32:26.710 –> 01:32:39.510
Porter Robinson: And yeah, my friend, my friend Mikey from New York recorded these drums and we did like seven or eight takes of it until it kind of got the right, like the drums are really background-y, you know, it’s like.

01:32:53.350 –> 01:32:57.050
Porter Robinson: So, this whole bit is like, it’s a lot more real recording.

01:32:57.750 –> 01:33:00.590
Porter Robinson: The M1 organ is still in there.

01:33:00.590 –> 01:33:02.490
Porter Robinson: We got the sub coming from the Juno.

01:33:02.490 –> 01:33:17.370
Porter Robinson: There’s this piano bit.

01:33:34.190 –> 01:33:38.150
Porter Robinson: And then, you send it all off with a big trance drop.

01:33:44.003 –> 01:34:10.963
John Kennedy: It’s really interesting listening to you break it down, but also now that you revealed the thought that this song ends the set, no, it ends the live set, and particularly the end of the song, I can really see and imagine that it really goes off and everybody goes crazy, particularly because of that, the lyric into that section, where you are imagining jumping off the bridge and what you would immediately miss and think, hang on a minute, I can’t do this, I can’t do that.

01:34:11.563 –> 01:34:13.763
John Kennedy: No, and that is kind of amazing.

01:34:13.763 –> 01:34:19.403
John Kennedy: And it ties in with, a couple of questions have been about the live show that we’ve had through via Patreon.

01:34:19.403 –> 01:34:23.243
John Kennedy: And Lucas Cameron says, How do you take your productions to your live shows?

01:34:23.243 –> 01:34:28.143
John Kennedy: I feel like they sound so good live, especially compared to other artists who use backing tracks.

01:34:28.143 –> 01:34:29.923
John Kennedy: Love from the Netherlands.

01:34:29.983 –> 01:34:32.303
John Kennedy: It’s the end of that message from Lucas.

01:34:32.303 –> 01:34:42.243
John Kennedy: But I mean, the clips I’ve seen online have been, this four or five piece band, it’s guitars, real drums, like a rock set up you have now.

01:34:42.243 –> 01:34:42.843
Porter Robinson: Yeah.

01:34:42.843 –> 01:34:57.403
Porter Robinson: Yes, I wanted to, this live show that we did touring this album, Smile Tour, was just like, it was the realization of such a long dream, because I wanted to make my show about the songs more than anything else.

01:34:57.403 –> 01:35:12.923
Porter Robinson: And that might sound like a strange comment from an artist, but in the past, I’d been known for my DJ sets, I’ve been known for mixing in other people’s music, or kind of these long audio visual shows where all the tracks are mixed together, whether a la Daft Punk, Alive 2007, or The Justice Show, or Chemical Brothers.

01:35:12.923 –> 01:35:14.603
Porter Robinson: That’s what I’d done for a very long time.

01:35:14.603 –> 01:35:17.663
Porter Robinson: With this show, I didn’t want to make it about a DJ mix at all.

01:35:17.663 –> 01:35:21.123
Porter Robinson: I wanted to separate out, I was like, these songs stand on their own.

01:35:21.123 –> 01:35:23.243
Porter Robinson: And so I wanted to play it with a band.

01:35:23.243 –> 01:35:32.463
Porter Robinson: And I think part of the reason that they sound the way they do was because the way that we prepared them was something I’ve never done before.

01:35:32.463 –> 01:35:38.643
Porter Robinson: Basically, in the past, I would sit at my computer like this, as I do, and I would make, let’s make the live version.

01:35:38.643 –> 01:35:45.483
Porter Robinson: So I’d sit down and basically construct a remix to then later be broken down again and performed live.

01:35:45.483 –> 01:35:47.763
Porter Robinson: I tried to do that this time and I utterly failed.

01:35:47.983 –> 01:35:52.623
Porter Robinson: I was trying to produce the laptop remixes for the band to play live and I just couldn’t do it.

01:35:52.623 –> 01:35:55.363
Porter Robinson: I was like, something’s not right about this.

01:35:55.363 –> 01:35:56.763
Porter Robinson: I’m going to try something I’ve never tried before.

01:35:56.763 –> 01:35:59.183
Porter Robinson: I’m just going to get the whole band together.

01:35:59.183 –> 01:36:03.663
Porter Robinson: I played one show with them before for Coachella as a sort of practice run.

01:36:04.823 –> 01:36:07.723
Porter Robinson: Not exactly the same members, but a lot of shared talent.

01:36:08.663 –> 01:36:15.303
Porter Robinson: We all got together in a rehearsal space and I took all the original stems for all three albums and I said, like, let’s just try playing these from the ground up.

01:36:15.303 –> 01:36:36.103
Porter Robinson: Let’s figure out from the very beginning what we want to have in tracks, what we want to have live and just every little, every, I’m sorry because I feel like I’m giving the same answer again and again and again, but every little thing was micro-analyzed and everything was a decision down to specific snare sounds, specific triggers when the triggers change.

01:36:36.103 –> 01:36:48.843
Porter Robinson: I even went to front of house world for this and we had it set up so that each song has five or six pre-made mixes where we were carrying the console from venue to venue.

01:36:48.843 –> 01:36:57.843
Porter Robinson: So the verse, I sat at front of house with my front of house guy, we mixed the verse together and then it would jump to the pre-chorus and I’d go, well, that’s not right.

01:36:57.843 –> 01:37:04.983
Porter Robinson: Set all the levels for the pre-chorus and then go to the course and set all the levels there and we did that for like a 35 song set list.

01:37:04.983 –> 01:37:08.743
Porter Robinson: So it’s like seven different scenes and snapshots for each song.

01:37:08.743 –> 01:37:11.123
Porter Robinson: And it wasn’t, I didn’t think I was going above and beyond.

01:37:11.123 –> 01:37:13.023
Porter Robinson: I just thought like, this doesn’t sound right yet.

01:37:13.023 –> 01:37:14.943
Porter Robinson: This doesn’t sound like the record.

01:37:14.943 –> 01:37:16.423
Porter Robinson: The snare is not hitting right.

01:37:16.423 –> 01:37:17.403
Porter Robinson: The vocals too buried.

01:37:17.403 –> 01:37:18.743
Porter Robinson: I can’t hear the bass note.

01:37:18.743 –> 01:37:20.463
Porter Robinson: The guitars aren’t bright enough.

01:37:20.503 –> 01:37:30.723
Porter Robinson: And I basically mixed each section of each song in the live show the same way I would mix a record, but just did so at 110 dB.

01:37:30.723 –> 01:37:32.203
Porter Robinson: So the needs were slightly different.

01:37:32.203 –> 01:37:36.543
Porter Robinson: We didn’t just exactly mix it the exact same way as the record.

01:37:36.543 –> 01:37:36.703
Porter Robinson: Yeah.

01:37:36.703 –> 01:37:42.443
Porter Robinson: And then I would see people, like a friend of mine saw the show and they were like, how real was that?

01:37:42.443 –> 01:37:43.943
Porter Robinson: I’m like, it’s completely real.

01:37:44.183 –> 01:37:52.683
Porter Robinson: It’s like, yeah, I worked really, really hard to make the live sound hit the way I would want to as a fan.

01:37:52.683 –> 01:38:08.083
Porter Robinson: Because it sucks to go see your favorite artist’s gig and you’re just so excited for that one chorus to come in and you realize you can’t hear the guitar or you’re like, oh, the singer’s voice, it’s hurting my ears every time or the bass note isn’t coming through.

01:38:08.083 –> 01:38:10.723
Porter Robinson: All those little things, those all bother me.

01:38:11.463 –> 01:38:16.023
Porter Robinson: So I wanted to create a live setup where there was still room for maximum expression.

01:38:16.023 –> 01:38:17.463
Porter Robinson: We’re all playing our parts.

01:38:17.463 –> 01:38:19.083
Porter Robinson: We can change everything.

01:38:19.083 –> 01:38:24.243
Porter Robinson: But the stuff that comes through is mixed carefully so that it hits the way it’s supposed to.

01:38:24.243 –> 01:38:27.083
Porter Robinson: But just put a ton of time into the live sound.

01:38:27.083 –> 01:38:34.443
John Kennedy: Yeah, well, it certainly sounds as if that time and effort was rewarded because people are asking questions about it and talking about it.

01:38:34.443 –> 01:38:47.323
John Kennedy: And it clearly works, you know, and that attention to detail, you know, you’ve been able to transfer from the studio to the live stage and blow people away, which is really exciting, you know, so good work.

01:38:47.323 –> 01:38:51.023
Porter Robinson: Yeah, I just got to apologize to my front of house guy though because I know I drove him crazy.

01:38:52.323 –> 01:38:54.563
Porter Robinson: But I’m happy it hit for people.

01:38:54.563 –> 01:39:07.203
Porter Robinson: That was one of the most meaningful things I’d hear after the show was like, it just sounded like better than, when people would say it sounded better than my DJ sets or my live electronic things I did in the past, I was like, this is exactly what I wanted.

01:39:07.343 –> 01:39:09.083
Porter Robinson: So that’s a triumph.

01:39:09.083 –> 01:39:10.023
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

01:39:10.023 –> 01:39:15.083
John Kennedy: We have a couple of questions that we ask everybody who comes on Tape Notes that we’d love to ask you, Porter, as well.

01:39:15.083 –> 01:39:16.123
John Kennedy: Absolutely.

01:39:16.123 –> 01:39:20.583
John Kennedy: So yeah, let’s hear that amazing outro.

01:39:20.623 –> 01:39:20.983
John Kennedy: All right.

01:40:11.170 –> 01:40:15.270
John Kennedy: The kick drum and bass suggest the song is coming to a close.

01:40:16.330 –> 01:40:19.110
John Kennedy: That’s the format we’re used to.

01:40:19.110 –> 01:40:24.550
John Kennedy: Clichés like this are beautiful, because they reflect us, and we are beautiful.

01:40:25.950 –> 01:40:29.750
John Kennedy: Take, for example, this chord progression.

01:40:29.750 –> 01:40:33.830
John Kennedy: It only became taboo because it was too powerful.

01:40:33.830 –> 01:40:36.950
John Kennedy: That’s why you won’t forget it.

01:40:36.950 –> 01:40:38.990
John Kennedy: Don’t kill yourself, you idiot.

01:40:40.270 –> 01:40:44.230
John Kennedy: It is Russian Roulette by Porter Robinson from the album Smile.

01:40:44.230 –> 01:40:55.490
John Kennedy: So everybody who comes on Tape Notes, we always ask them about tech or equipment, and whether they have a favorite piece or a go-to piece, or something that they would save in a fire.

01:40:55.490 –> 01:40:58.090
John Kennedy: Sometimes that changes with project to project.

01:40:58.090 –> 01:40:59.830
John Kennedy: What would it be for you, Porter?

01:41:00.590 –> 01:41:02.970
Porter Robinson: My piece of tech that I would…

01:41:02.990 –> 01:41:09.170
Porter Robinson: That’s such a lame answer because I can’t imagine living without FL Studio, personally.

01:41:09.170 –> 01:41:12.690
Porter Robinson: I know that’s the sequencers, that’s the whole thing, it’s not a good answer.

01:41:12.690 –> 01:41:18.630
Porter Robinson: But it’s like this UI is burned into my retinas at this point, like a TV.

01:41:18.630 –> 01:41:25.370
Porter Robinson: I’ve tried using Ableton and other sequencers, and this one is just I’m so married to the way that it moves, the way that it flows.

01:41:25.370 –> 01:41:33.490
Porter Robinson: It’s so lame to name check your entire sequencer, but like this is like, I’ve spent more time looking at this than I’ve spent looking at my own mother’s face.

01:41:33.490 –> 01:41:36.150
Porter Robinson: You know, it’s like, this is my life right here.

01:41:36.390 –> 01:41:44.270
Porter Robinson: If I was trying to give a more specific answer, I use FL’s plugin 3X OSC constantly.

01:41:44.270 –> 01:41:47.650
Porter Robinson: It’s like it’s basically operator, it’s the most simple one.

01:41:47.650 –> 01:41:55.670
Porter Robinson: I would really, really miss it if, and this is a new edition of my life, I would really miss like this one particular baby acoustic guitar that I have.

01:41:59.610 –> 01:42:22.430
Porter Robinson: It was my wife Rica’s and it’s just so small and I have it, I have it, I’ve got a deeper voice so I have this like pitch down like three semitones from Standard and I’m always playing in G and I just like, it’s my ultimate songwriting buddy and like I would miss this thing very, very dearly although it’s a new newer edition to my life.

01:42:22.430 –> 01:42:33.410
Porter Robinson: It’s like it’s really, it’s so small so it’s really easy for me to carry outside and I’ll just be sitting out there just like trying to work out a lead, a lead vocal melody and it’s a little, little baby acoustic.

01:42:33.410 –> 01:42:34.530
Porter Robinson: Yeah, let’s see.

01:42:34.530 –> 01:42:35.550
Porter Robinson: Plugins.

01:42:35.550 –> 01:42:40.950
Porter Robinson: I really, it’s funny because I don’t have it on this computer right now, but I love EchoBoy, SoundToys EchoBoy.

01:42:40.950 –> 01:42:44.190
Porter Robinson: It’s just like instant delay.

01:42:44.190 –> 01:42:49.510
Porter Robinson: When you’re working in digital a lot and working with digital sounds, delay is such an important effect, right?

01:42:49.510 –> 01:42:56.310
Porter Robinson: But if you’re using digital sounds, oftentimes it’ll be the exact same sound if you play the same note two beats apart.

01:42:56.310 –> 01:43:05.750
Porter Robinson: So if you have a digital delay on top of a digital sound, it’s going to just double the volume, basically, when the delay tap hits at the same time as the note.

01:43:05.750 –> 01:43:11.250
Porter Robinson: So if you’ve got a melody, it’s like, and you’ve got a quarter note delay on that, it’s going to sound like this.

01:43:12.910 –> 01:43:22.170
Porter Robinson: And so the reason that something like EchoBoy is really great is that it just kind of its default preset has a little bit of pitch modulation and a little bit of effect to it.

01:43:22.350 –> 01:43:28.750
Porter Robinson: So even if you’re using a very digital static sound, the delay taps won’t be redundant with the sound itself.

01:43:28.750 –> 01:43:30.150
Porter Robinson: So I just love that.

01:43:30.150 –> 01:43:36.630
Porter Robinson: I love just opening up EchoBoy, going to whatever tap time I need for the sound and just knowing that it’s not going to get in the way.

01:43:36.630 –> 01:43:38.710
Porter Robinson: I think that’s really, really essential.

01:43:38.710 –> 01:43:41.430
Porter Robinson: Maybe I’ll say manipulator as well.

01:43:41.430 –> 01:43:47.770
Porter Robinson: The whole vocal processing of my previous record, those pitched up voices was done with manipulator.

01:43:47.770 –> 01:43:50.330
Porter Robinson: And the amazing thing about that is it can be used live.

01:43:50.550 –> 01:43:54.690
Porter Robinson: It can pitch your voice an octave and change the format and it can be done with zero latency.

01:43:54.690 –> 01:43:58.210
Porter Robinson: So that was really essential for performing the last album live.

01:43:58.210 –> 01:43:58.690
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:43:58.690 –> 01:44:16.070
John Kennedy: And the other question that we ask everybody who comes on Tape Notes is about advice and whether they have picked up any advice or been given any advice by other people that they’d want to pass on or share, or through the lessons of life, you’ve got advice through your own experience that you would like to share.

01:44:16.070 –> 01:44:17.970
Porter Robinson: Yeah.

01:44:17.970 –> 01:44:23.850
Porter Robinson: I remember when I first went on tour, with Skrillex, I think he kind of sensed.

01:44:23.850 –> 01:44:26.790
Porter Robinson: Skrillex is one of those magical people.

01:44:26.790 –> 01:44:29.170
Porter Robinson: He’s one of those one in a million people.

01:44:29.870 –> 01:44:46.870
Porter Robinson: I try to be careful not to put people on a pedestal, but he’s one of very few that I’ve met that is just relentlessly creative and has an incredible heart, and is kind of eternally young, never jaded, and always wants to make something new.

01:44:47.990 –> 01:44:50.210
Porter Robinson: He’s a sensitive soul, he’s somebody I really love.

01:44:50.210 –> 01:44:53.430
Porter Robinson: And he was the first person who ever brought me on tour.

01:44:53.430 –> 01:45:01.190
Porter Robinson: And he, I think, sensed in my early days that I wasn’t being fully myself.

01:45:01.190 –> 01:45:05.590
Porter Robinson: I think, you know, my first few records were like these big banging electro house songs.

01:45:05.590 –> 01:45:17.490
Porter Robinson: And it was what I liked, but there was also a part of me that was like trying to rise to the occasion of being a superstar DJ, because my managers needed me to, and I felt like that’s just what I was supposed to do.

01:45:17.490 –> 01:45:18.250
Porter Robinson: Right.

01:45:18.250 –> 01:45:20.290
Porter Robinson: I think he could feel that dissonance.

01:45:20.290 –> 01:45:27.290
Porter Robinson: And he was like, you know, Porter, like if you like trance music, like you should be, you should make that.

01:45:27.290 –> 01:45:29.610
Porter Robinson: Like he was like, you don’t have to do what I do.

01:45:29.610 –> 01:45:31.350
Porter Robinson: You don’t have to do what anyone else does.

01:45:31.350 –> 01:45:34.630
Porter Robinson: You, like, what do you really like?

01:45:34.630 –> 01:45:42.390
Porter Robinson: And he sort of like gave me permission to, and he said that he turned, cause Zedd was also on that tour, and he turned to Zedd and he was like, Zedd, like what do you really like?

01:45:42.530 –> 01:45:46.210
Porter Robinson: Like, if you love pop music, you should be making that.

01:45:46.210 –> 01:45:48.110
Porter Robinson: And it was effortless too.

01:45:48.110 –> 01:45:55.570
Porter Robinson: He was not the kind of person to just sit and lecture you, but he just kind of looked at us and sized us up and it was like, you guys have a lot of potential.

01:45:55.570 –> 01:45:57.830
Porter Robinson: You should just be making what you care about.

01:45:57.830 –> 01:46:10.870
Porter Robinson: And I have to be the 150th guest to come on to Tape Notes and say, follow your passions, you know, but like it’s that can be taken down to a micro level.

01:46:10.870 –> 01:46:11.950
Porter Robinson: It’s not just a macro thing.

01:46:12.010 –> 01:46:14.970
Porter Robinson: It’s not just broadly do the thing that you’d like to do.

01:46:14.970 –> 01:46:18.610
Porter Robinson: When I’m in the studio, my stomach is my guiding light.

01:46:18.610 –> 01:46:20.010
Porter Robinson: It’s not my brain.

01:46:20.010 –> 01:46:31.750
Porter Robinson: So if I’m having a hard time choosing between seven samples or seven drum samples or a lyric or chord progression, in those moments, whichever one just gives me a kick in the gut.

01:46:31.750 –> 01:46:38.730
Porter Robinson: Even if I can’t explain why, even if it goes against the rule I was just setting for myself, like I didn’t want this one to be an R&B one or something like that.

01:46:38.730 –> 01:46:41.590
Porter Robinson: But the kind of R&B drum loop is the one that’s giving me the butterflies.

01:46:42.450 –> 01:46:43.830
Porter Robinson: Just pick that.

01:46:43.830 –> 01:46:53.890
Porter Robinson: Behaving instinctually in the studio, whether you’re the musician, whether you’re the producer, whether you’re the mixer, that’s what artistry is, in my opinion.

01:46:53.890 –> 01:47:00.990
Porter Robinson: I think it’s part of the reason that AI art is so dull is because it’s an amalgamation of averageness.

01:47:00.990 –> 01:47:02.530
Porter Robinson: There’s no perspective.

01:47:02.530 –> 01:47:15.050
Porter Robinson: I think increasingly as time goes by, what artists are presenting is a set of tastes and a point of view, and everything else is just getting there and evoking those reactions from yourself.

01:47:15.050 –> 01:47:19.790
Porter Robinson: So I think it’s never good to suppress the thing that’s causing a spark.

01:47:19.790 –> 01:47:28.810
Porter Robinson: If you think this is too cringe or this is too bubblegum or this is too weird or this is out of date, those kinds of thoughts only serve to get in the way of the spark.

01:47:28.810 –> 01:47:34.010
Porter Robinson: So that’s what I would say is in the studio, I’m not just a macro level, but also a micro level.

01:47:34.010 –> 01:47:40.530
Porter Robinson: Every little decision, follow the thing that gives you the spark, follow the thing that gives you the little stomach sparkle.

01:47:40.530 –> 01:47:44.550
Porter Robinson: If you’re not feeling it, chase it, go find it.

01:47:44.550 –> 01:47:46.590
Porter Robinson: Change what you’re doing if you’re not feeling it.

01:47:46.770 –> 01:47:49.970
Porter Robinson: That’s never ever steered me wrong a single time.

01:47:49.970 –> 01:47:56.170
John Kennedy: Very sound advice and it’s great to hear about Skrillex and how empathetic he is.

01:47:56.170 –> 01:47:57.790
John Kennedy: It’s been so great to speak to you.

01:47:57.790 –> 01:48:06.030
John Kennedy: Thank you so much for giving us your time and for putting in so much work into getting these stems and all the demos together for us to hear.

01:48:06.170 –> 01:48:07.170
John Kennedy: It’s been brilliant.

01:48:07.170 –> 01:48:11.830
John Kennedy: We will play another selection from the album, Smile, as a kind of outro track.

01:48:11.830 –> 01:48:13.250
John Kennedy: What do you think we should go with?

01:48:13.250 –> 01:48:22.650
John Kennedy: I mean, there’s the interesting everything to me with acoustic guitar, which is just you and guitar doing a completely kind of different thing, or there’s the amazing Easier to Love You.

01:48:23.030 –> 01:48:24.130
John Kennedy: What are your thoughts?

01:48:24.130 –> 01:48:28.690
Porter Robinson: Yeah, maybe I’ll do a bit of Easier to Love You.

01:48:28.690 –> 01:48:33.150
Porter Robinson: I just, this song has the, I think the right feeling to send us off.

01:48:33.150 –> 01:48:33.910
John Kennedy: Brilliant.

01:48:33.910 –> 01:48:34.650
John Kennedy: Thanks again, Porter.

01:48:35.070 –> 01:48:38.330
John Kennedy: And this is Easier to Love You by Porter Robinson.

01:48:44.743 –> 01:48:50.063
John Kennedy: Thank you for listening, and in particular, thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on Patreon.

01:48:50.063 –> 01:48:54.563
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01:48:54.563 –> 01:49:02.543
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01:49:02.543 –> 01:49:06.343
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01:49:06.343 –> 01:49:11.483
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01:49:11.483 –> 01:49:15.023
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01:49:15.023 –> 01:49:16.583
John Kennedy: Once again, thank you for listening.

01:49:16.583 –> 01:49:17.863
John Kennedy: Until next time, goodbye.