Full Transcript:

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John Kennedy: This episode is being supported by Darcy, and right now, they have a Black Friday offer of 30% off their groundbreaking new plugin, Natural Drums.

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John Kennedy: The idea is that it’s like having a drummer or producer in the room with you so you can stay in the creative flow rather than get stuck in the weeds of programming.

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John Kennedy: Hello, welcome to Tape Notes.

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John Kennedy: I hope you’re well.

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John Kennedy: Before I tell you about this week’s new episode, we have got a ridiculously exciting festive announcement.

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John Kennedy: Ahead of Christmas, we have been speaking to our friends across the music industry to arrange a big gear giveaway competition, an ultimate studio giveaway, if you like, and one winner will walk away with this incredible prize list, which includes a Neumann TLM-103 mic, a Scarlett 18i20 interface from Focusrite, a Novation Launch Key 61, a year’s subscription to the Roland Cloud, and a P6 sampler from Roland, Native Instruments’ complete 15 Collectors edition, an EP-133KO from Teenage Engineering, the FabFilter Pro Bundle Plug-in Suite, a pair of Adam Audio H200 headphones, and a pair of their D3V monitors, and of course, Tape It Pro for life.

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John Kennedy: I know, what an amazing bundle that is.

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John Kennedy: An absolutely incredible prize and a very happy Christmas or Happy New Year for the lucky person who wins it.

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John Kennedy: And to be in with a chance to win the bundle, all you have to do is head over to the Tape Notes Patreon page at patreon.com/tapenotes.

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John Kennedy: Sign up for free and comment who you’d like to see on the podcast on the top pinned post.

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John Kennedy: Just to reiterate, you don’t need to sign up for the paid tiers.

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John Kennedy: Simply join for free and comment who you’d like to see on the podcast on the top pinned post.

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John Kennedy: Of course, this will also be open to all our current patrons as well.

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John Kennedy: The competition will remain open until the 2nd of January, at which point a winner will be drawn.

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John Kennedy: Good luck.

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John Kennedy: Now, on to this week’s new episode.

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John Kennedy: I caught up with Oli and Lee from Bring Me The Horizon along with producer Dan Lancaster to talk about how they wrote, recorded and produced the band’s latest record, POST HUMAN NeX GEN.

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John Kennedy: It’s an incredible album and it was an amazing conversation that we had.

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John Kennedy: The level of detail, the devotion and time that they put into this and the crazy ideas that they have are amazing.

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John Kennedy: This is a must listen as far as I’m concerned.

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John Kennedy: It was incredible.

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John Kennedy: Such dedication as well and so many amazing ideas.

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John Kennedy: To watch the full video of the podcast, head to the Tape Notes Patreon page at patreon.com/tapenotes.

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John Kennedy: And as usual, there will be highlight videos coming out on the Tape Notes YouTube channel throughout the week.

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John Kennedy: Thank you also to our partners at Tape It, the iPhone recording app designed specifically for musicians.

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John Kennedy: More on them later in the show.

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John Kennedy: But now without further ado, let’s get started.

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John Kennedy: Hello and welcome to Tape Notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

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John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

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John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tape Notes are Bring Me The Horizon, with producer Dan Lancaster to talk about how they wrote, recorded, and produced the album POST HUMAN, NeX GEN.

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John Kennedy: Bring Me The Horizon are a metal band from Sheffield, consisting of frontman Oli Sykes, guitarist Lee Malia, drummer Matt Nichols, and bassist Matt Keane.

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John Kennedy: The band formed in 2004 during their late teens, honing their craft across the Sheffield scene.

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John Kennedy: Their intense live shows and heavy sound quickly gained attention.

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John Kennedy: In September that year, they released their debut EP, This Is What The Edge of Your Seat Was Made For, on local label 30 Days of Night Records, and later on Visible Noise.

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John Kennedy: Their debut album Count Your Blessings arrived in 2006, working with producer Dan Sprigg.

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John Kennedy: While the band’s early music saw them dig into a deathcore centred sound, their later releases marked a creative transition, including elements of electronics, classical, and pop influences.

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John Kennedy: Having developed a global fan base and with numerous platinum-selling singles throughout the 2010s, the band continued to reach new heights with their 2019 release Ammo, which reached number one in 17 countries, and secured Grammy nominations for the best rock album and best rock song for the lead single Mantra.

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John Kennedy: With seven studio albums, over five million records sold worldwide, global domination of the rock and metal charts, and a reputation for spectacular live shows, the band has cemented their place at the forefront of modern rock history.

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John Kennedy: Their latest release, POST HUMAN NeX GEN, arrived in May 2024, working alongside longtime collaborator and producer Dan Lancaster.

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John Kennedy: It serves as the second installment of their POST HUMAN series, following 2020’s POST HUMAN Survival Horror.

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John Kennedy: Dan Lancaster is a producer, mixer, songwriter and artist from the UK.

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John Kennedy: Dan’s career in music began as the lead singer and guitarist of POST hardcore band Proceed, but he has since established himself as one of rock music’s most sought after producers and mixers.

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John Kennedy: Having taught himself production, self-producing the vast majority of Proceed’s music, after the band parted ways, Dan started producing and mixing for other artists.

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John Kennedy: Since then, he has worked on numerous records from high-profile artists, including Lower Than Atlantis, Muse and Five Seconds of Summer.

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John Kennedy: His innovative production style has earned him three Grammy nominations, including recognition for his collaborations with Bring Me The Horizon and Blink 182.

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John Kennedy: Dan began working with Bring Me The Horizon in 2015, mixing their album That’s The Spirit.

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John Kennedy: Since then, he has collaborated closely with the band, contributing his writing and production expertise to their latest record, POST HUMAN, NeX GEN.

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John Kennedy: Today, I’m at Stongroom Studios, and I’m joined by Oli and Lee from the band, with producer and co-writer Dan.

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John Kennedy: And what better way to start our conversation than by hearing something from the record.

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John Kennedy: This is LOST.

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John Kennedy: It is Bring Me The Horizon with Loss from the album POST HUMAN, NeX GEN.

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John Kennedy: And I’m very pleased to say that I have got two of Bring Me The Horizon with me, Oli and Lee.

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John Kennedy: Hello, how are you?

00:08:07.531 –> 00:08:08.591
Oli Sykes: All right, mate, how’s it going?

00:08:08.591 –> 00:08:09.451
John Kennedy: It’s good to have you here.

00:08:09.451 –> 00:08:12.931
John Kennedy: And hello to Dan as well, who has been working on this record.

00:08:12.931 –> 00:08:18.591
John Kennedy: It’s great to have all three of you here to find out more about POST HUMAN, NeX GEN.

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John Kennedy: When did you start thinking about this record?

00:08:21.011 –> 00:08:23.271
John Kennedy: Because it’s kind of part of an ongoing series.

00:08:23.271 –> 00:08:24.711
John Kennedy: It’s an ongoing project.

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John Kennedy: So I’m thinking that you never get away from it.

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Oli Sykes: No, unfortunately.

00:08:30.051 –> 00:08:31.811
Oli Sykes: When did we write Survival Hour?

00:08:31.831 –> 00:08:33.151
Oli Sykes: 2020?

00:08:33.151 –> 00:08:34.771
Lee Malia: Just before lockdown it started.

00:08:34.831 –> 00:08:35.511
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

00:08:35.511 –> 00:08:41.151
Oli Sykes: So in lockdown we decided to make a record.

00:08:41.151 –> 00:08:46.331
Oli Sykes: And I kind of always wanted to play with this idea of maybe doing like an EP and doing different styles and stuff like that.

00:08:46.331 –> 00:08:52.131
Oli Sykes: And when lockdown hit and we had no what to do, we kind of thought it were a good opportunity to do something a little bit different.

00:08:52.131 –> 00:08:57.031
Oli Sykes: Because obviously like making music in general was a difficult thing.

00:08:57.371 –> 00:09:02.431
Oli Sykes: And it was something we’d never done in terms of like working remotely and stuff like that.

00:09:02.431 –> 00:09:07.611
Oli Sykes: So we kind of like, should we just try and do like a fun little project, see where it goes.

00:09:07.611 –> 00:09:15.371
Oli Sykes: We’ll not, not that we’ll try too hard, but like we’ll not try and experiment as much as we usually do, like compared to the record before Ammo and stuff.

00:09:15.371 –> 00:09:19.071
Oli Sykes: We were like, because it’s going to be really difficult making music over internet.

00:09:19.071 –> 00:09:19.631
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

00:09:19.631 –> 00:09:23.171
Oli Sykes: Like, we don’t know how it’s going to go, but let’s try and do something.

00:09:23.171 –> 00:09:29.011
Oli Sykes: We actually found out that it was a little bit easier than we kind of first anticipated.

00:09:29.011 –> 00:09:36.211
Oli Sykes: And actually the, I think the kind of restraint we put on ourselves are like, we won’t go crazy in terms of experimentation.

00:09:36.211 –> 00:09:39.391
Oli Sykes: We’re like the perfect balance for us because we still did.

00:09:39.391 –> 00:09:42.891
Oli Sykes: But we didn’t go as, we can spend like months on one song.

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Oli Sykes: We just go over and do like so many versions and it’s never good enough and we’re always and I think sometimes we’ve lost some of the magic in our songs by doing that because, you know, like when you’re working on music, it’s this process of like, at first you’re like, this is awesome.

00:09:58.151 –> 00:10:00.511
Oli Sykes: And then the next thing is like, is this any good?

00:10:00.511 –> 00:10:02.391
Oli Sykes: And then it’s like, no, this is shit.

00:10:02.391 –> 00:10:09.611
Oli Sykes: And you forget that at one point you liked it and you’ve just lost all kind of sensory like appreciation for it.

00:10:09.611 –> 00:10:10.251
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

00:10:10.251 –> 00:10:23.331
Oli Sykes: So the kind of restraint we put on ourselves because we thought it were going to be difficult, writing music remotely actually made us be a little less over the top with the way we analyzed everything.

00:10:23.331 –> 00:10:25.211
Oli Sykes: And we decided that would be good.

00:10:25.211 –> 00:10:27.931
Oli Sykes: And that record was received really well.

00:10:27.931 –> 00:10:32.811
Oli Sykes: And it just prompts us to be like, this should be part of like an ongoing series.

00:10:32.811 –> 00:10:34.231
Oli Sykes: And we had a lot of fun.

00:10:34.331 –> 00:10:40.011
Oli Sykes: And we kind of leant a bit more into the things we grew up on as kids and stuff like that.

00:10:40.011 –> 00:10:42.991
Oli Sykes: And we kind of made that record more of a vibe.

00:10:42.991 –> 00:10:49.431
Oli Sykes: Whereas a lot of our records before, they’re quite collage-y in terms of every song on the record’s different.

00:10:49.431 –> 00:10:54.271
Oli Sykes: And we were kind of like, what if we just kind of make each record this focused idea?

00:10:54.271 –> 00:10:57.951
Oli Sykes: And if every record’s got a particular sound.

00:10:57.951 –> 00:11:03.871
Oli Sykes: So NeX GEn was like, OK, we’ve done new metal and alternative rock and kind of our homage to that.

00:11:03.931 –> 00:11:14.271
Oli Sykes: What if we did like the music that kind of we all bonded over, which were like emo and hardcore, post hardcore and, you know, all that world.

00:11:14.271 –> 00:11:22.091
Oli Sykes: So we started thinking about it pretty early after the record, the Survival Horror came out, so like 2022.

00:11:22.091 –> 00:11:23.911
Oli Sykes: So it’s been a long time.

00:11:23.911 –> 00:11:27.531
John Kennedy: Because quite a few tracks have come out over that period.

00:11:27.531 –> 00:11:30.491
John Kennedy: And it’s kind of been interesting waiting for the record.

00:11:30.491 –> 00:11:33.151
John Kennedy: And then suddenly you just put it out there earlier this year.

00:11:34.011 –> 00:11:38.611
John Kennedy: People were probably still waiting and then you said, oh, we’re going to put it out and you put it out the next day.

00:11:38.611 –> 00:11:40.491
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

00:11:40.491 –> 00:11:42.011
John Kennedy: Which is good going, I think.

00:11:42.011 –> 00:11:46.291
Oli Sykes: Yeah, we were just as antsy to get it out as everyone was to hear it.

00:11:46.291 –> 00:11:54.011
Oli Sykes: And like it was just a bit of a crazy roller coaster of just like an album in terms of making it.

00:11:54.011 –> 00:12:01.371
Oli Sykes: And we had highs and lows and the experimentation in general and like us trying to like have to like hit a particular sound.

00:12:01.371 –> 00:12:04.151
Oli Sykes: It’s like it weren’t as easy as going and go make another song.

00:12:04.151 –> 00:12:09.691
Oli Sykes: It’s like we made a bunch of songs and then we’re like, this is kind of going against what we said we were going to do.

00:12:09.691 –> 00:12:13.351
Oli Sykes: So we’re like when it were done, it were really hard to know when it were going to be done.

00:12:13.351 –> 00:12:24.311
Oli Sykes: But when it was done, it was like, let’s just get this record out and our label, obviously record labels love like having three months, four months, five months and they were like, it’s going to come out in September.

00:12:24.311 –> 00:12:26.291
Oli Sykes: And I would kind of just like, all right.

00:12:26.911 –> 00:12:34.151
Oli Sykes: And I think I would just one day just sat there like, if we announce this album is coming out in September, I’m going to kill myself.

00:12:34.151 –> 00:12:37.531
Oli Sykes: I mean, I was going to like, I just can’t wait that long.

00:12:37.531 –> 00:12:43.251
Oli Sykes: And this has messaged my manager and we’re like, can we just put this record out like as soon as humanly possible?

00:12:43.251 –> 00:12:44.191
Oli Sykes: Let’s just put it out.

00:12:44.191 –> 00:12:45.551
Oli Sykes: Let’s not tell anyone we’re putting it out.

00:12:46.291 –> 00:12:53.211
Oli Sykes: Let’s just try and end this whole thing on like a positive, interesting note rather than the whole like, oh, it’s going to come out in six months.

00:12:53.211 –> 00:12:53.751
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

00:12:53.791 –> 00:13:01.031
Oli Sykes: Everyone’s been bummed out and also just like kind of remove ourselves from the fear and the worry and the waiting and stuff, you know?

00:13:01.031 –> 00:13:03.591
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, a really good decision, I think.

00:13:03.591 –> 00:13:09.211
John Kennedy: No, just kind of get on with it because you’ve been working on it for so long that once it’s finished, it should be out there.

00:13:09.211 –> 00:13:09.551
Oli Sykes: It exists.

00:13:09.551 –> 00:13:10.011
Oli Sykes: It’s there.

00:13:10.011 –> 00:13:20.671
Oli Sykes: It’s like we’re so over like whether it gets to number one or whether it gets worked by the labels so it gets on playlists and stuff like that, we’re just like, if it’s a good record, it’ll do well.

00:13:20.671 –> 00:13:22.131
Oli Sykes: And we felt really good about the record.

00:13:22.211 –> 00:13:24.771
Oli Sykes: We’re really proud of it, really confident in it.

00:13:24.771 –> 00:13:25.391
Oli Sykes: We loved it.

00:13:25.391 –> 00:13:32.471
Oli Sykes: And it’s just like, look, no amount of media and press and hype can make a bad album do well.

00:13:32.471 –> 00:13:32.831
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:13:32.831 –> 00:13:35.111
John Kennedy: Did you ever think, well, we’re Bring Me The Horizon.

00:13:35.351 –> 00:13:37.111
John Kennedy: We can do what we like.

00:13:37.111 –> 00:13:39.991
John Kennedy: Because in some ways, I think you’re in that position.

00:13:39.991 –> 00:13:46.111
John Kennedy: You’ve kind of played the game in many ways, and it’s worked because of your approach to how to do that.

00:13:46.111 –> 00:13:48.171
John Kennedy: And it’s gained you new fans.

00:13:48.171 –> 00:13:52.411
John Kennedy: It’s solidified an amazing fan base that will be with you wherever you go.

00:13:52.411 –> 00:13:54.411
John Kennedy: And so you’re kind of in control, I think.

00:13:54.851 –> 00:13:59.451
John Kennedy: I mean, I’m not saying you threw your weight around and said, right, we’re the band, we’ll do what we like.

00:13:59.451 –> 00:14:06.051
Oli Sykes: Yeah, I mean, as the actual people, it’s impossible for us to see ourselves as, like, we’re still the underdogs that everyone hates.

00:14:06.051 –> 00:14:11.971
Oli Sykes: Like, we’re still that band from Sheffield that our hometown hates us, and we’re the most divisive band in the world.

00:14:11.971 –> 00:14:12.391
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

00:14:12.391 –> 00:14:15.991
Oli Sykes: I mean, like, we’re still, like, got that mentality.

00:14:15.991 –> 00:14:21.811
Oli Sykes: I don’t think it matters if we were playing Wembley Stadium, we’d still be like, in our heads, it could end over that.

00:14:21.811 –> 00:14:25.031
Lee Malia: Yeah, you’re always waiting for it to, like, to wake up from it, kind of.

00:14:25.291 –> 00:14:28.511
Lee Malia: And be like, oh, it is still a bit ropey.

00:14:28.511 –> 00:14:29.231
Oli Sykes: Yeah, yeah.

00:14:29.231 –> 00:14:31.711
Oli Sykes: It’s hard for us to see ourselves any other way than that.

00:14:31.711 –> 00:14:36.511
Oli Sykes: So like, we’re never like, yeah, this is going to be sick, everyone’s going to love it, and it’s going to work perfectly.

00:14:36.831 –> 00:14:38.691
Oli Sykes: We’re always like, who knows?

00:14:39.051 –> 00:14:42.451
Oli Sykes: But we’re trying to remove ourselves from caring so much.

00:14:42.451 –> 00:14:52.651
Oli Sykes: Just being like, you know, because if you start playing all those games and get really worked up into it, and you know, like we’ve, I think our album, That’s the Spirit, was looking like it was going to be number one.

00:14:52.651 –> 00:15:01.671
Oli Sykes: And I think we were at Stereophonics or something, and our label were really excited, and management and everything, because we could have a number one here, and we got excited as well.

00:15:01.671 –> 00:15:12.151
Oli Sykes: We’re like, oh my God, because, you know, our band had just started to get big, and the idea of our band ever having like a number one, were like, well, it wasn’t even a dream, because you’re just not some of the metal core band.

00:15:12.271 –> 00:15:16.731
Lee Malia: In like a mainstream chart and stuff, you didn’t know before.

00:15:16.731 –> 00:15:19.511
Oli Sykes: We got worked up, and then we didn’t get it.

00:15:19.511 –> 00:15:20.871
Oli Sykes: Stereophonics got number one.

00:15:20.871 –> 00:15:28.071
Oli Sykes: And I remember we were all sat on a Friday, we got the results, and we’re all in a pub, we are at like, heads in our hands, drinking, like gutted.

00:15:28.071 –> 00:15:32.751
Oli Sykes: It’s like, we got to number two, we sold like 45,000 records, and we’re gutted about it.

00:15:32.751 –> 00:15:34.071
Oli Sykes: Like, what the fuck’s going on?

00:15:34.071 –> 00:15:40.591
Oli Sykes: Like, how have we got to a point where that’s a bad thing, that our band is even in the charts at all, and we’re upset about it?

00:15:40.591 –> 00:15:48.171
Oli Sykes: And I think since that, we’ve been just, you know, distancing ourselves more and more from like, trying to get involved in that stuff, trying to be bothered about it.

00:15:48.171 –> 00:15:49.311
Lee Malia: Same with Grammys, weren’t it?

00:15:49.311 –> 00:15:54.351
Lee Malia: We got nominated for a Grammy, we were all like excited, got there, and then just didn’t win.

00:15:54.351 –> 00:15:57.751
Lee Malia: And then next time it came around, we were like, is this even fun?

00:15:57.751 –> 00:15:58.211
Lee Malia: Yeah.

00:15:58.211 –> 00:16:00.611
Lee Malia: Like, the whole experience.

00:16:00.611 –> 00:16:03.491
Oli Sykes: The best bit is being told, like, you’ve been nominated or whatever.

00:16:03.491 –> 00:16:07.711
Oli Sykes: It’s like, if you could just bottle that feeling up and just keep that and go, it doesn’t matter then.

00:16:07.711 –> 00:16:13.731
Oli Sykes: You go to them things and it’s just, it’s like your mind gets, like, infected with, like, oh, maybe if we did this and that.

00:16:13.731 –> 00:16:16.011
Oli Sykes: And it’s just, I think it’s so bad as an artist.

00:16:16.011 –> 00:16:21.371
Oli Sykes: I think it kills your creativity because you start comparing yourself to all these artists doing other stuff.

00:16:21.371 –> 00:16:24.351
Oli Sykes: And it’s like, but since when did you ever want to be, like, these artists?

00:16:24.351 –> 00:16:25.711
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

00:16:25.711 –> 00:16:32.911
Oli Sykes: So yeah, for us, like, I think our albums came out physically and they were like, oh, they might be number one, but this band’s, they’re doing loads of installs.

00:16:32.911 –> 00:16:33.831
Oli Sykes: What are we gonna do about them?

00:16:33.831 –> 00:16:35.231
Oli Sykes: We were just like, couldn’t give a shit.

00:16:35.611 –> 00:16:37.951
Oli Sykes: Let it go to number two, do you know what I mean?

00:16:37.951 –> 00:16:39.011
Oli Sykes: Because they don’t mean all.

00:16:39.011 –> 00:16:43.371
Oli Sykes: Like, no kid listens to our bands going, oh, that’s wicked, Bring Me The Horizon at number one.

00:16:43.371 –> 00:16:44.891
Oli Sykes: That means anything to me.

00:16:44.891 –> 00:16:50.371
Oli Sykes: Same way as when you go to a gig as a kid, you don’t look around and go, oh, it’s a bit empty tonight.

00:16:50.371 –> 00:16:54.431
Oli Sykes: Like, if you love that band, that band are the biggest thing in the world to you.

00:16:54.431 –> 00:16:58.451
Oli Sykes: But then the band themselves are like going, oh, we’ve only sold 700 tickets instead of a thousand.

00:16:58.451 –> 00:17:08.411
Oli Sykes: And it’s like, it’s just like mad that we, like, as artists get worked up when, if you’re even touring, even playing a gig, you’ve already won, you’ve already done it, you’ve already managed, you know what I mean?

00:17:08.411 –> 00:17:13.951
Oli Sykes: If you’re doing it for a living at all, like, what’s it matter if there’s 800 people there or a thousand, you know?

00:17:13.951 –> 00:17:15.071
Oli Sykes: So what’s it matter?

00:17:15.271 –> 00:17:18.151
Oli Sykes: It’s only your own ego, you’re stroking, you know what I mean?

00:17:18.151 –> 00:17:20.511
John Kennedy: Yeah, loads of wise words already.

00:17:20.731 –> 00:17:33.731
John Kennedy: And Ben, the great thing is that you are in the position that you’re in, which is really exciting to have a band like Bring Me The Horizon as popular as you are, you know, to have that presence is really important for so many different genres, I think.

00:17:33.991 –> 00:17:38.111
John Kennedy: And we’re going to find out more about how you create that in today’s episode, which is really exciting.

00:17:38.111 –> 00:17:41.171
John Kennedy: And the first song we’re going to look at is Kool-Aid.

00:17:41.171 –> 00:17:44.691
John Kennedy: So maybe Dan could play us the master and we can hear what it was all about.

00:18:50.170 –> 00:18:54.050
John Kennedy: It is Kool-Aid by Bring Me The Horizon from POST HUMAN, NeX GEN.

00:18:54.050 –> 00:18:56.310
John Kennedy: So when did this start, and how does it start?

00:18:56.310 –> 00:19:00.070
John Kennedy: How does a Bring Me The Horizon song start?

00:19:00.070 –> 00:19:02.730
Lee Malia: Kind of like, sometimes you come in with like a brief, don’t you?

00:19:02.730 –> 00:19:16.070
Lee Malia: Like, we want something in this kind of vibe, and then you’ll have like references to like artists and songs, and be like, we need something that’s kind of, yeah, like a vibe, a pace, and like an overall sound, and then we’re just like, I get, yeah.

00:19:16.070 –> 00:19:22.790
Oli Sykes: To hit like, this is what it needs to do and deliver, and what function it serves in our set or whatever.

00:19:22.790 –> 00:19:24.450
Oli Sykes: Obviously, now we’re like 20 years old.

00:19:24.450 –> 00:19:34.390
Oli Sykes: It’s like, feels like every song we make has got a server purpose that we don’t already have, or one that’s at least good enough to go, okay, we’re taking this song out, do you know what I mean?

00:19:34.390 –> 00:19:45.610
Oli Sykes: And then obviously, like, this whole album’s a concept as well, so like narratively, like, there’s like things that I’m trying to say in a story that I’m trying to tell that needs a certain sound.

00:19:45.610 –> 00:19:52.350
Oli Sykes: But a lot of times as well, it’s like, this song itself started off as a completely different brief to what it ended up as.

00:19:52.350 –> 00:20:04.750
Oli Sykes: So it’s just, but like, it can be, it can start with Lee with a riff, it can start with me with a lyric or an idea, it can, you know, start maybe another song saying like, gotta do something like this, but rock, or you know what I mean?

00:20:04.750 –> 00:20:08.710
Oli Sykes: So it can start anyway, really.

00:20:08.770 –> 00:20:15.390
Lee Malia: That’s why, you know, that’s why it’s quite hard as a guitarist to write because we’ve no idea what is, what you’re writing for, you know what I mean?

00:20:15.390 –> 00:20:32.830
Lee Malia: That’s why it’s, but it’s like, that’s what makes it interesting as well, because you’re not, I guess if every album we did sound like that’s the spirit, you’d have a general like, oh, I need to write in this style, but every song we do, pretty honestly, it’s like, it’s always different and it vastly different from, so it’s like, it’s interesting though.

00:20:32.830 –> 00:20:40.870
Oli Sykes: Yeah, every song, if you listen to the first version to the last version, most of them are like completely different songs, entirely different songs.

00:20:40.870 –> 00:20:42.950
John Kennedy: So with Cool Aide, where did it start?

00:20:43.110 –> 00:20:44.730
Dan Lancaster: I got some context.

00:20:44.730 –> 00:20:45.570
Oli Sykes: What’s the demo called?

00:20:45.570 –> 00:20:46.050
Oli Sykes: Is it called?

00:20:46.050 –> 00:20:48.250
Dan Lancaster: It’s called Devolution V1.

00:20:48.250 –> 00:20:57.630
Oli Sykes: It started off with, the brief was like Rob Zombie Dragula, because I love that song Dragula offer the remix off the Matrix record.

00:20:57.630 –> 00:20:59.050
Oli Sykes: It’s like just one of our favourite tunes.

00:20:59.090 –> 00:21:01.070
Oli Sykes: It’s just so, so sick.

00:21:01.070 –> 00:21:08.670
Oli Sykes: And the idea of having this kind of like back and forth, like call and repeat with like a, like a lyric.

00:21:08.670 –> 00:21:11.190
Oli Sykes: And then you come back to like a tagline and so forth.

00:21:11.190 –> 00:21:14.610
Oli Sykes: It were like that kind of vibe at first, weren’t it?

00:21:15.090 –> 00:21:16.770
Dan Lancaster: The first time I heard this was yesterday.

00:21:28.559 –> 00:21:32.199
Lee Malia: That were a Metallica, that Mission Impossible song as well.

00:21:33.599 –> 00:21:34.299
Lee Malia: By reference.

00:21:43.579 –> 00:21:44.859
Oli Sykes: Just bullshit lyrics as well.

00:21:48.719 –> 00:21:49.099
Dan Lancaster: Chorus.

00:21:56.479 –> 00:22:00.859
Dan Lancaster: That was just one of them, and then there’s…

00:22:00.859 –> 00:22:03.659
Dan Lancaster: There’s all different ones.

00:22:13.902 –> 00:22:15.382
John Kennedy: So, how are you recording all these demos?

00:22:15.382 –> 00:22:17.522
John Kennedy: I mean, they sound amazing.

00:22:17.522 –> 00:22:18.662
Oli Sykes: We’ve got a studio in Sheffield.

00:22:18.662 –> 00:22:22.322
Oli Sykes: This is actually one of the first ones we properly did in there.

00:22:22.322 –> 00:22:28.082
Oli Sykes: We built, after we got back off at Fall Out Boy Tour, which were last summer.

00:22:28.082 –> 00:22:29.062
Lee Malia: I don’t know.

00:22:29.062 –> 00:22:30.242
Lee Malia: Can’t think when it was.

00:22:30.242 –> 00:22:35.662
Oli Sykes: But it was when we were a bit like, all right, we need to finish this record now.

00:22:35.662 –> 00:22:54.422
Oli Sykes: And we’d obviously been writing on road for ages, and we just felt like we needed somewhere, like an actual base to sit and write music, not like what sometimes we do at my house, which at the time I were living in one of my old houses, it was like a tiny little office that we were writing, like half size of this.

00:22:54.422 –> 00:22:57.962
Oli Sykes: And we were just like, we just need somewhere actually nice that feels good to go to.

00:22:57.962 –> 00:23:03.002
Oli Sykes: So we built, my dad actually built us this studio in about two weeks, and it’s really nice.

00:23:03.002 –> 00:23:03.702
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:23:03.862 –> 00:23:05.602
John Kennedy: And what have you got in that studio then?

00:23:05.602 –> 00:23:09.922
John Kennedy: Because I mean, that sounds really full on, but is it, is any of that in the box as it were?

00:23:10.262 –> 00:23:15.122
Lee Malia: It’s all, it’ll all be plug-ins, like guitar wise and that.

00:23:15.122 –> 00:23:19.082
Lee Malia: I’d have like, there’s a few pedals into like a plug-in, do you know what I mean?

00:23:19.082 –> 00:23:19.642
Lee Malia: Stuff like that.

00:23:19.642 –> 00:23:25.002
Lee Malia: So it’s nothing’s like real amps or anything on the demos, because it’s just, everything’s got to be super quick.

00:23:25.002 –> 00:23:26.262
Lee Malia: Do you know what I mean?

00:23:26.262 –> 00:23:31.542
Lee Malia: I guess like ideas change so fast, it’s literally got to be instant or the idea gets lost.

00:23:31.542 –> 00:23:34.222
Lee Malia: So everything’s kind of, well, everything is in the box, isn’t it?

00:23:34.222 –> 00:23:35.082
Lee Malia: I think.

00:23:35.082 –> 00:23:35.322
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

00:23:35.322 –> 00:23:35.722
Lee Malia: I don’t know.

00:23:35.722 –> 00:23:37.202
Oli Sykes: Mini drums and all that.

00:23:37.202 –> 00:23:39.902
Dan Lancaster: Monitor speakers and a desk.

00:23:39.902 –> 00:23:40.562
John Kennedy: Right.

00:23:40.562 –> 00:23:41.842
John Kennedy: So, and how many people in the room?

00:23:41.842 –> 00:23:43.422
John Kennedy: Just the two or three of you?

00:23:43.422 –> 00:23:43.962
Dan Lancaster: Depends.

00:23:43.962 –> 00:23:47.042
Lee Malia: When we did that, they were all, and Zack, weren’t they?

00:23:47.042 –> 00:23:48.002
Lee Malia: And DiDi.

00:23:48.002 –> 00:23:49.422
Lee Malia: Oh, and DiDi, yeah.

00:23:49.422 –> 00:23:52.182
Lee Malia: But he’s usually got headphones in the corner doing some insane.

00:23:52.182 –> 00:23:55.362
Oli Sykes: DiDi is from a band called Pale Dusk, a Japanese band.

00:23:55.362 –> 00:24:00.542
Oli Sykes: And just being a fan of his stuff for ages, he’s just absolutely mental.

00:24:00.542 –> 00:24:03.602
Oli Sykes: Like he just, it’s like he’s just an idea factorer.

00:24:03.862 –> 00:24:10.002
Oli Sykes: In his songs, the band, Pale Dusk themselves, they rarely stay on a part for like more than 10 seconds.

00:24:10.002 –> 00:24:14.562
Oli Sykes: And it’s just like key changes and tempo changes and just million, billion ideas.

00:24:14.562 –> 00:24:20.342
Oli Sykes: And he was just a great asset to have because he was there and it’s just like, okay, I’m thinking this and that.

00:24:20.342 –> 00:24:21.982
Oli Sykes: And you’d just be like away.

00:24:21.982 –> 00:24:29.902
Oli Sykes: So he’d sit in the corner, just working like crazy, basically just on like the kind of production, like the little flares and stuff like that.

00:24:29.902 –> 00:24:32.222
Dan Lancaster: I was going to play like some of his mad stuff.

00:24:38.754 –> 00:24:39.914
Oli Sykes: Sounds like Ross when he’s on keyboard.

00:24:39.914 –> 00:24:41.294
Oli Sykes: This is, die die, yeah.

00:24:52.048 –> 00:24:56.508
John Kennedy: So is that his own music, or is that the part that he’s contributed to, right?

00:24:56.508 –> 00:25:07.028
Oli Sykes: But he would like, and the day I’d go and sit with him, and then it would like strip him back, because he’d be like, he’d do like 25 tracks of music, and I’d be like, that was just too much, you know what I mean?

00:25:07.028 –> 00:25:13.388
Oli Sykes: Which is great to have as, like, but he would have so many ideas that were like, it would just chaos.

00:25:13.388 –> 00:25:16.688
Oli Sykes: But like before, if you don’t catch him, he’ll just be gone again, you know what I mean?

00:25:16.688 –> 00:25:19.308
Oli Sykes: He just goes, it’s kind of crazy to watch.

00:25:19.308 –> 00:25:20.428
Oli Sykes: I don’t know where it all comes from.

00:25:20.868 –> 00:25:22.068
John Kennedy: Yeah, amazing.

00:25:22.068 –> 00:25:25.708
Dan Lancaster: This song is quite organized from his angle, isn’t it?

00:25:25.708 –> 00:25:30.728
Dan Lancaster: It’s not, some of the other tracks are better examples of how mental it goes.

00:25:30.728 –> 00:25:31.728
Oli Sykes: Statue is a good one.

00:25:31.808 –> 00:25:38.648
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, I mean, I found a cat going, I didn’t even know it was there yesterday when I was sorting these out.

00:25:38.648 –> 00:25:42.268
Oli Sykes: The stuff we leave in, just because it’s hilarious, that you can’t even hear.

00:25:42.268 –> 00:25:46.588
Oli Sykes: But if you actually pull back, there’s just some of the maddest stuff you’ve ever heard in it.

00:25:47.188 –> 00:25:49.508
Oli Sykes: It’s just funny that you even thought about it.

00:25:49.768 –> 00:25:50.568
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:25:50.568 –> 00:25:53.588
John Kennedy: So how are we going to approach this when you’ve got so much going on?

00:25:53.668 –> 00:25:56.968
John Kennedy: What should we hear after hearing those couple of demos?

00:25:56.968 –> 00:25:59.348
Dan Lancaster: To be fair, it’s mixed stems for the most part.

00:25:59.348 –> 00:26:04.228
Dan Lancaster: I’ve kind of separated out from the midi drum part.

00:26:04.228 –> 00:26:11.148
Dan Lancaster: I’ve put that into what ultimately how I got finished, because Zack actually finished the mixing.

00:26:11.148 –> 00:26:13.828
Dan Lancaster: But in terms of how the drums are done, we’re kind of on the same page.

00:26:14.028 –> 00:26:18.388
Dan Lancaster: It’s how we make songs in the studio, if Zack wasn’t there.

00:26:18.388 –> 00:26:24.368
Oli Sykes: I guess when we got started on it, because we were quite a journey from when we started, really, weren’t it?

00:26:24.948 –> 00:26:26.548
Oli Sykes: In terms of vocals anyway, at least.

00:26:27.068 –> 00:26:27.548
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:26:27.548 –> 00:26:31.808
Oli Sykes: The song itself was more or less a finished article.

00:26:31.808 –> 00:26:34.968
Oli Sykes: But then when we started top lining it and stuff is…

00:26:34.988 –> 00:26:39.428
Dan Lancaster: But Oli does a whole pass of almost an entire concept with…

00:26:39.428 –> 00:26:43.748
Dan Lancaster: And you only find a few of those words or lyrics that actually remain in the final one.

00:26:43.748 –> 00:26:48.028
Dan Lancaster: He normally scraps it on the next day and says…

00:26:48.028 –> 00:26:52.108
Dan Lancaster: And gets a feeling from it that’s not good enough, but pulls something from it.

00:26:52.108 –> 00:26:58.628
Dan Lancaster: And then it evolves in entire sections of recording his vocals and writing the lyrics and stuff.

00:26:58.628 –> 00:27:07.328
Dan Lancaster: So there was probably two or three passes of the song being a completely different song, essentially, lyrically, that just get straight delete, you know.

00:27:07.328 –> 00:27:09.668
Dan Lancaster: So it’s kind of an interesting process.

00:27:09.668 –> 00:27:10.508
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:27:10.508 –> 00:27:11.528
Oli Sykes: It changed actually when I…

00:27:11.528 –> 00:27:16.188
Oli Sykes: I think I went off to Japan and I feel like I remember phoning you and going, oh, I’ve got the verse now.

00:27:16.188 –> 00:27:16.528
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:27:16.528 –> 00:27:20.148
Oli Sykes: Like we’d done a whole verse, which it’s got some cool, weird bits.

00:27:20.148 –> 00:27:20.668
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:27:20.668 –> 00:27:22.868
Oli Sykes: But like it wasn’t right.

00:27:22.868 –> 00:27:26.728
Dan Lancaster: And then when you go back, it’s not as cool as we thought kind of thing.

00:27:26.728 –> 00:27:28.888
Oli Sykes: No, it’s got some interesting ideas, but like…

00:27:28.928 –> 00:27:29.468
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:27:29.468 –> 00:27:37.728
Dan Lancaster: But when Oli presented what was ultimately the final verses and stuff, it’s totally different to what I had on my computer at the time, you know?

00:27:37.728 –> 00:27:40.128
Dan Lancaster: So it’s kind of a cool process.

00:27:40.128 –> 00:27:44.308
Dan Lancaster: He’s like really brave with just getting rid of stuff, you know?

00:27:44.308 –> 00:27:44.968
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:27:44.968 –> 00:27:45.968
Dan Lancaster: And it keeps you guessing.

00:27:47.608 –> 00:27:49.568
Oli Sykes: You called me brutal before.

00:27:49.568 –> 00:27:49.828
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:27:49.868 –> 00:27:51.708
Oli Sykes: I’m brave.

00:27:51.708 –> 00:27:52.268
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

00:27:52.268 –> 00:27:56.568
Dan Lancaster: But it makes sense in the end, but at the time it’s like, you’re going to get rid of all of that.

00:27:56.568 –> 00:27:57.008
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

00:27:57.448 –> 00:27:58.028
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:27:58.028 –> 00:27:59.648
John Kennedy: After hours and hours of work.

00:27:59.648 –> 00:27:59.848
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:27:59.848 –> 00:28:03.748
Dan Lancaster: But for me, it was early days, so I was like, this is interesting.

00:28:03.748 –> 00:28:09.388
Dan Lancaster: Now I’m used to it, because it’s been like a year of doing multiple songs in that similar fashion.

00:28:09.388 –> 00:28:13.108
Dan Lancaster: So I kind of expect it, and that kind of helps.

00:28:13.108 –> 00:28:13.888
John Kennedy: You’re prepared.

00:28:13.888 –> 00:28:14.528
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:28:14.528 –> 00:28:16.628
Dan Lancaster: But he’s always right, you know, in the end.

00:28:16.628 –> 00:28:19.728
Dan Lancaster: And I get it along the way, but I’m not used to it.

00:28:19.728 –> 00:28:20.188
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:28:20.188 –> 00:28:20.868
Dan Lancaster: That process.

00:28:20.868 –> 00:28:30.608
Oli Sykes: It’s quite soul crushing when you’ve worked on something for days, but you have to override that feeling to want it to succeed for the sake of not having to work any harder.

00:28:30.608 –> 00:28:43.588
Oli Sykes: Because if you made that mistake a couple of times in our career, where it’s like some songs on Ammo, like Medicine in particular, there was this part of my mind where I go, this is so cool that we’ve made a pop song.

00:28:43.588 –> 00:28:58.068
Oli Sykes: And there was another part of me going, there’s something about it that’s not quite just scratching the itch that you want it to think, but it almost was so high on the fact that it achieves something like that.

00:28:58.068 –> 00:28:58.628
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

00:28:58.628 –> 00:29:07.128
Oli Sykes: I don’t know if it’s when it’s almost like you’re so impressed with yourself that you’ve done something like that, that you don’t even think about, yeah, but is it right?

00:29:07.128 –> 00:29:10.148
Oli Sykes: Is it actually achieving the thing that you want it to?

00:29:10.148 –> 00:29:10.688
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

00:29:10.688 –> 00:29:12.988
Oli Sykes: And it’s like the hardest thing as a musician to go, fuck.

00:29:13.648 –> 00:29:14.188
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

00:29:14.188 –> 00:29:15.288
Oli Sykes: You’re never wrong about that.

00:29:15.288 –> 00:29:19.988
Oli Sykes: If there’s something in your gut that’s like, no matter how good this should be, it’s not quite.

00:29:20.208 –> 00:29:21.308
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

00:29:21.308 –> 00:29:33.548
Oli Sykes: I think as an artist, that’s the difference between being successful and not, I think, is that the fact that you can actually just go, it don’t matter that I’ve worked a month on this, it’s not gonna do well and I’m not feeling it, you know?

00:29:33.548 –> 00:29:34.408
Lee Malia: Yeah.

00:29:34.408 –> 00:29:35.068
John Kennedy: Interesting.

00:29:35.068 –> 00:29:37.048
John Kennedy: So what should we hear from Kool Aid?

00:29:37.048 –> 00:29:42.688
John Kennedy: Cause all the stuff you’re gonna play is the stuff that you decided, right, this is the thing.

00:29:42.688 –> 00:29:43.528
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, this works.

00:29:43.528 –> 00:29:46.708
Lee Malia: You got any of them older vocals and stuff that were like…

00:29:46.748 –> 00:29:48.388
Dan Lancaster: The old version of Deja Vu?

00:29:50.148 –> 00:29:50.548
Dan Lancaster: I might have.

00:29:50.548 –> 00:29:52.288
Lee Malia: All the weirder stuff.

00:29:52.288 –> 00:29:59.228
Oli Sykes: I think when we first started writing stuff for this, I just had this brand new obsession with Sinead O’Connor.

00:29:59.228 –> 00:30:01.588
Oli Sykes: I think I just watched the documentary after she died.

00:30:01.588 –> 00:30:09.628
Oli Sykes: Like obviously knew her and stuff and listened to her, but never, you know, apart from like the songs that were big, never really dived much deeper.

00:30:09.628 –> 00:30:11.128
Oli Sykes: I just found it amazing.

00:30:11.128 –> 00:30:13.248
Oli Sykes: I was like, I want to sing like that.

00:30:13.248 –> 00:30:13.548
John Kennedy: Right.

00:30:13.548 –> 00:30:14.588
Oli Sykes: But I don’t know how to do it.

00:30:14.688 –> 00:30:17.848
Oli Sykes: So yeah, I think it came out a bit funky.

00:30:46.112 –> 00:30:48.632
Dan Lancaster: So you can see what I mean by the whole thing deleted.

00:30:48.632 –> 00:30:51.352
Dan Lancaster: In that case, there’s nothing from that.

00:30:51.352 –> 00:30:54.172
Dan Lancaster: There’s no ideas in there even that just like change it.

00:30:54.172 –> 00:30:55.132
John Kennedy: Got into the song.

00:30:55.132 –> 00:30:55.892
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, yeah.

00:30:55.892 –> 00:30:58.772
John Kennedy: I mean, it was a process you needed to get through.

00:30:58.772 –> 00:31:01.652
Oli Sykes: A lot of time as well, the lyrics are just bollocks.

00:31:01.652 –> 00:31:12.012
Oli Sykes: I try my hardest to write bollocks lyrics because I take a long time writing lyrics because they all need to like, everyone needs to like mirror the other one in terms of like the theme.

00:31:12.012 –> 00:31:14.332
Oli Sykes: And I just, I’m really particular about it.

00:31:14.332 –> 00:31:19.432
Oli Sykes: And so like, I can spend the whole day just writing lyrics for, for a section that gets deleted next day.

00:31:19.432 –> 00:31:26.032
Oli Sykes: So I’m trying more and more just to be like, just just say some bollocks that sounds kind of cool.

00:31:26.032 –> 00:31:34.152
Oli Sykes: And then I’ll actually write some later because that is the worst when, especially like leaving, like people settle their whole day where I’m just like, no, no, no.

00:31:34.152 –> 00:31:41.092
Oli Sykes: And then come back and just realise next day, it’s all, I mean, sometimes if I do it that way, I do get to use those lyrics.

00:31:41.092 –> 00:31:43.712
Oli Sykes: If I wrote something really good, I’ll find a place for them.

00:31:43.712 –> 00:31:53.872
Oli Sykes: But a lot of time you just, it just ends up being a completely different, like, for instance, like the Kool-Aid line was like the kind of piece where this is what the song’s about.

00:31:53.872 –> 00:31:58.252
Oli Sykes: And then it just meant going back and going, everything I wrote is not irrelevant now, you know?

00:31:58.492 –> 00:32:01.712
John Kennedy: So maybe we should hear that line if that’s possible.

00:32:01.712 –> 00:32:02.112
Dan Lancaster: Which one?

00:32:02.112 –> 00:32:05.592
John Kennedy: And the Kool-Aid line that Oli just referred to.

00:32:05.592 –> 00:32:08.872
Dan Lancaster: Drank the Kool-Aid butter jug, in general.

00:32:16.892 –> 00:32:20.192
John Kennedy: So once you’d written that, that was like a catalyst to change it.

00:32:20.192 –> 00:32:21.992
Oli Sykes: We had the melody already, didn’t we?

00:32:21.992 –> 00:32:22.452
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:32:22.452 –> 00:32:23.732
Oli Sykes: Pretty sure we had the melody.

00:32:23.732 –> 00:32:24.732
Oli Sykes: And I really liked it.

00:32:25.592 –> 00:32:31.092
Oli Sykes: But it was just having that, that hook, some are interesting, some are cool.

00:32:31.092 –> 00:32:36.172
Oli Sykes: Again, 20 years in now, it’s, I feel increasingly difficult to find a new topic.

00:32:36.172 –> 00:32:42.092
Oli Sykes: And I do find myself like writing lyrics and like, and then being like, I’ve said that, said that a million times, you know what I mean?

00:32:42.092 –> 00:32:47.012
Oli Sykes: So it’s like finding a new way to like, you know, like this song’s all about society and stuff.

00:32:47.012 –> 00:32:56.412
Oli Sykes: And it’s, it’s not really a topic I’ve talked about that much, but I definitely have in roundabout ways, like mantra and stuff like that.

00:32:56.412 –> 00:33:01.812
Oli Sykes: So it’s just like trying to find a new way to come at it, a new perspective and something that feels fresh.

00:33:01.812 –> 00:33:02.292
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

00:33:02.292 –> 00:33:05.092
Oli Sykes: And when I got the Kool-Aid line, I was really excited when I-

00:33:05.092 –> 00:33:06.132
Dan Lancaster: It was like a moment, yeah.

00:33:06.132 –> 00:33:08.372
Dan Lancaster: And I was just, I was like, what?

00:33:08.372 –> 00:33:10.752
Dan Lancaster: Kool-Aid, yeah, sweet, you know.

00:33:10.752 –> 00:33:10.972
Dan Lancaster: But then-

00:33:10.972 –> 00:33:12.752
John Kennedy: Are we able to solo vocals to sing?

00:33:12.752 –> 00:33:13.472
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, yeah, of course.

00:33:13.472 –> 00:33:15.192
John Kennedy: Because you have so many different vocal styles.

00:33:15.192 –> 00:33:17.412
John Kennedy: That’s the amazing thing about what you do, Oli.

00:33:17.412 –> 00:33:24.052
John Kennedy: You know, so, and also the ability to switch from kind of singing directly to screaming, to into something else.

00:33:24.052 –> 00:33:24.532
Oli Sykes: Yeah, yeah, no.

00:33:30.752 –> 00:33:32.592
Dan Lancaster: So really distorted screaming stuff.

00:33:39.392 –> 00:33:41.232
Dan Lancaster: Then opens up cleaner.

00:33:47.112 –> 00:33:48.852
Dan Lancaster: And then all the BVs.

00:33:50.732 –> 00:33:52.072
Oli Sykes: It’s like me or you.

00:33:52.072 –> 00:33:53.752
Dan Lancaster: That sounds like you.

00:33:53.752 –> 00:33:57.172
Dan Lancaster: So that’s like a soft one going on a falsetto.

00:33:57.172 –> 00:33:58.772
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, at the same time.

00:34:00.812 –> 00:34:03.672
Dan Lancaster: There’s little bits and bobs of me as well.

00:34:03.672 –> 00:34:07.772
Oli Sykes: I mean, it does help having someone like Dan, cause he’s like, just mental at singing.

00:34:07.772 –> 00:34:15.972
Oli Sykes: And I’m not, it’s like, even this falsetto stuff actually came through a lot more working with Dan, because it’s not my strong point.

00:34:16.152 –> 00:34:16.772
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

00:34:16.772 –> 00:34:24.212
Oli Sykes: And I think before working with Dan, it was just hard on my own to like, to figure that stuff out.

00:34:24.212 –> 00:34:28.552
Oli Sykes: So I think like, first thing I said, actually, I want to do more falsetto shit.

00:34:28.552 –> 00:34:29.192
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:34:29.192 –> 00:34:34.032
Dan Lancaster: I always said, I think your falsetto is better than you realise.

00:34:34.032 –> 00:34:36.132
Dan Lancaster: Like it takes a bit, it takes a minute, but…

00:34:36.132 –> 00:34:39.232
Oli Sykes: Yeah, it’s just the flicking back and forth and stuff.

00:34:39.232 –> 00:34:39.872
Dan Lancaster: That’s hard for anyone.

00:34:39.872 –> 00:34:48.412
Oli Sykes: I can do it, but it’s just like, singing in general for me is something I learned like 10 years ago and I’ve been working hard at trying to get better ever since.

00:34:48.412 –> 00:34:56.412
Oli Sykes: And I was tone deaf really before, like seriously, I almost gave up trying because I just couldn’t get it.

00:34:56.412 –> 00:34:57.932
Oli Sykes: So it’s been a slog for me.

00:34:57.932 –> 00:34:59.232
Oli Sykes: It’s not like a natural gift.

00:34:59.232 –> 00:35:01.772
Dan Lancaster: So you’re always on a singing lesson when I call you.

00:35:01.772 –> 00:35:02.272
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

00:35:02.272 –> 00:35:03.892
Dan Lancaster: So it’s been working still.

00:35:03.892 –> 00:35:05.672
Dan Lancaster: You know, that’s cool.

00:35:05.672 –> 00:35:15.092
Oli Sykes: So it does help when someone, and Dan’s actually really good at describing how to do it and stuff, or like just a few things sometimes, like you’re trying too hard.

00:35:15.092 –> 00:35:16.052
Oli Sykes: Why are you doing it like that?

00:35:16.052 –> 00:35:19.512
Oli Sykes: Like you’re just like overthinking it, just open up or whatever, you know what I mean?

00:35:19.512 –> 00:35:23.212
Oli Sykes: And a lot of things clipped into place when, when Dan started working with us.

00:35:23.212 –> 00:35:31.612
Oli Sykes: Just so it was like, even that itself, it’s like, I feel like I’m doing stuff on cool that I’ve never really done before as well.

00:35:31.612 –> 00:35:33.772
Oli Sykes: So yeah, we’re a lot of fun.

00:35:33.772 –> 00:35:34.072
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:35:34.072 –> 00:35:42.392
John Kennedy: And all those different parts, so they all in one take or you coming in and doing one thing and then coming back maybe 10 minutes later and doing the next thing.

00:35:42.392 –> 00:35:49.392
Dan Lancaster: So the vocals in the verse are going to be easier to do in longer runs.

00:35:49.392 –> 00:35:58.392
Dan Lancaster: And then when it comes to the choruses, often when we bring the Horizons music, you’ve got quite a high challenging thing to sing, like generally.

00:35:58.392 –> 00:36:00.932
Dan Lancaster: So that will be cut in a bit more.

00:36:00.932 –> 00:36:02.052
Oli Sykes: Oh, it’s chopped in.

00:36:02.052 –> 00:36:06.572
Dan Lancaster: It’s chopped in a lot, but it’s like we don’t comp, you know, there’s no comping in that way.

00:36:06.572 –> 00:36:08.892
Dan Lancaster: But it’s comp as you go, sort of thing.

00:36:08.892 –> 00:36:12.992
Oli Sykes: So we just want every line to be the best it possibly come for the record.

00:36:12.992 –> 00:36:19.432
Dan Lancaster: But I’ll slow down and focus on individual words, you know, that’s when it gets painful when the whole idea gets scrapped, you know what I mean?

00:36:19.432 –> 00:36:20.632
Dan Lancaster: And that’s where I come in.

00:36:20.632 –> 00:36:21.732
Oli Sykes: I do tell you as we do.

00:36:21.732 –> 00:36:22.992
Dan Lancaster: I know, of course, I understand.

00:36:22.992 –> 00:36:25.032
Dan Lancaster: But that’s where I come in with the speed of demos.

00:36:25.032 –> 00:36:31.412
Dan Lancaster: I can lay something down that we’ve both agreed might be cool and I can do it quick, you know?

00:36:31.412 –> 00:36:33.632
Dan Lancaster: So then we can let that sit or whatever.

00:36:33.632 –> 00:36:34.732
Dan Lancaster: So that helps speed things up.

00:36:34.832 –> 00:36:40.272
Dan Lancaster: But yeah, when it comes to finishing the choruses, I can focus on individual words and stuff.

00:36:40.272 –> 00:36:45.272
Dan Lancaster: And if something sounds awkward, we can run a bit of that line.

00:36:45.272 –> 00:36:47.132
Dan Lancaster: And then I’ll just cut the bit that I want.

00:36:47.132 –> 00:36:48.292
Dan Lancaster: So there’s a lot of that going on.

00:36:48.292 –> 00:36:48.672
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:36:48.672 –> 00:36:50.252
John Kennedy: Are you able to illustrate that at all?

00:36:50.252 –> 00:36:51.272
Dan Lancaster: It’s a mixed em.

00:36:51.272 –> 00:36:52.032
John Kennedy: Right.

00:36:52.032 –> 00:36:52.912
Dan Lancaster: So I know.

00:36:52.912 –> 00:36:53.892
John Kennedy: It’s not possible.

00:36:53.892 –> 00:37:00.092
John Kennedy: But a ton of work is going in alongside the fact that you’ve got this amazing music going on as well.

00:37:00.092 –> 00:37:00.632
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:37:00.632 –> 00:37:02.252
John Kennedy: And so do you get all that done?

00:37:03.412 –> 00:37:07.392
John Kennedy: And then you get time to spend on the vocals or?

00:37:07.412 –> 00:37:10.712
Dan Lancaster: Oh, it all moves in different stages.

00:37:10.712 –> 00:37:11.732
Lee Malia: It still changes.

00:37:11.732 –> 00:37:18.152
Lee Malia: There’ll be times where I think I’ve heard the finished song and then a day later, it’ll be a totally different thing.

00:37:18.152 –> 00:37:20.812
Lee Malia: So that’s like when end of vocals and everything’s done, isn’t it?

00:37:21.352 –> 00:37:24.992
Lee Malia: So stuff can change up until like the very last second.

00:37:25.672 –> 00:37:31.152
Dan Lancaster: I will say the instrumental for this song seemed to remain solid for a while.

00:37:31.352 –> 00:37:33.752
Oli Sykes: Yeah, we had it in a good place by the time you were there.

00:37:33.752 –> 00:37:37.812
Dan Lancaster: So things change but not major things, which is kind of unusual.

00:37:37.872 –> 00:37:41.932
Dan Lancaster: There was no major tempo changes or pitch key changes or anything like that.

00:37:41.932 –> 00:37:43.312
Dan Lancaster: That’s another thing that happens a lot.

00:37:43.312 –> 00:37:49.072
Dan Lancaster: Speeding songs up, slowing them down, changing the pitch like very often, you know?

00:37:49.072 –> 00:37:50.212
Dan Lancaster: Every day.

00:37:50.352 –> 00:37:57.952
John Kennedy: And those decisions are made on kind of, we just want something to change at this point in the song, just to shake things up.

00:37:58.252 –> 00:38:04.992
Dan Lancaster: No, there will be Oli having a vision for a vibe of a certain part of the song vocally.

00:38:04.992 –> 00:38:08.512
Oli Sykes: It’s usually figuring out the perfect compromise between every section.

00:38:08.512 –> 00:38:09.432
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

00:38:09.432 –> 00:38:16.432
Oli Sykes: There might be, for instance, the middle eight section of the song is like a circle pit moment.

00:38:16.432 –> 00:38:20.032
Oli Sykes: So it needed to be fast enough that it could deliver that.

00:38:20.032 –> 00:38:26.632
Oli Sykes: But while not being too fast, it’s going to ruin the chorus of the song, the halftime groove and everything.

00:38:26.632 –> 00:38:33.972
Oli Sykes: Same with like, we might land upon a new part for a certain melody that I can’t hit because it’s too high, so we need to bring it down.

00:38:33.972 –> 00:38:37.132
Oli Sykes: But then it’s usually just like going back and forth.

00:38:37.132 –> 00:38:39.172
Oli Sykes: And it’s like, what’s the most important thing here?

00:38:39.172 –> 00:38:40.112
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:38:40.112 –> 00:38:43.732
John Kennedy: Maybe we should hear just those couple of sections to illustrate.

00:38:43.732 –> 00:38:45.652
John Kennedy: So was it the middle eight you said?

00:38:45.652 –> 00:38:49.712
Lee Malia: The bridge, I remember we did the riff in a hotel somewhere in America.

00:38:49.752 –> 00:38:50.512
Oli Sykes: Indonesia.

00:38:50.512 –> 00:38:52.052
Lee Malia: Oh, Indonesia, yeah.

00:38:52.052 –> 00:38:56.332
Lee Malia: Well, that was just with like your interface and just like a random guitar.

00:38:56.332 –> 00:38:58.492
Oli Sykes: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:01.592 –> 00:39:03.552
Dan Lancaster: Well, that was me and Oli.

00:39:03.552 –> 00:39:04.952
Lee Malia: We did that, actually.

00:39:04.952 –> 00:39:06.632
Oli Sykes: What was that plug-in called?

00:39:09.052 –> 00:39:10.152
Oli Sykes: Messed around that for ages.

00:39:10.232 –> 00:39:13.092
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, he’s talking about this.

00:39:15.472 –> 00:39:17.932
Dan Lancaster: Again, a mixed stem, so there’s other things.

00:39:17.932 –> 00:39:22.092
Dan Lancaster: But that’s quite a big part of that drop down section.

00:39:22.092 –> 00:39:23.732
Dan Lancaster: And it was, yeah, it was a couple of hours.

00:39:23.732 –> 00:39:25.092
Oli Sykes: That was just when you sat there going.

00:39:25.092 –> 00:39:25.952
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, yeah.

00:39:25.952 –> 00:39:27.232
Dan Lancaster: And I was just changing the…

00:39:27.232 –> 00:39:28.852
Dan Lancaster: And it was in Arcade.

00:39:28.852 –> 00:39:29.772
Oli Sykes: Arcade, that’s it, yeah.

00:39:29.772 –> 00:39:32.092
Dan Lancaster: I can’t remember the patch, but yeah.

00:39:32.092 –> 00:39:35.372
Dan Lancaster: We don’t use it all that much, but that day we used it an awful lot.

00:39:35.372 –> 00:39:38.812
Oli Sykes: You could press certain keys and they would modify the sound coming through that.

00:39:38.952 –> 00:39:40.452
Oli Sykes: I mean, I don’t know much about…

00:39:40.452 –> 00:39:43.252
Dan Lancaster: We did change it as well, and you can reverse it and things.

00:39:43.252 –> 00:39:45.112
Oli Sykes: Yeah, so that was a fun plug-in.

00:39:45.112 –> 00:39:49.452
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, it was kind of a big feature of that section, but yeah, the circle pit, where it kicks in.

00:40:09.483 –> 00:40:22.843
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, I’m fascinated by how much thought goes into evolving each tiny section of the song, both thinking in terms of what you’re trying to articulate in the song, but also its impact on an audience and how that might communicate.

00:40:22.843 –> 00:40:23.763
John Kennedy: It’s really, really interesting.

00:40:23.763 –> 00:40:29.223
John Kennedy: I mean, we’re going to have to round up and move on, but maybe we could play at the very end of this song.

00:40:29.223 –> 00:40:32.883
John Kennedy: It’s almost like an example of you in action.

00:40:32.883 –> 00:40:33.103
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

00:40:33.103 –> 00:40:35.763
John Kennedy: Where you’re saying, oh, I know, what about this?

00:40:35.763 –> 00:40:37.083
John Kennedy: And then this is how it should end.

00:40:37.523 –> 00:40:39.603
Dan Lancaster: A trivia moment as well.

00:40:39.603 –> 00:40:43.923
Dan Lancaster: That final thing, it’s got Alterboy sweeping it up and down, making it sound weird.

00:40:43.923 –> 00:40:50.503
Dan Lancaster: But Oli was wearing a lavalier, like a wireless DJI lavalier, and that’s actually what we recorded that through.

00:40:50.503 –> 00:40:51.443
Dan Lancaster: So I just changed the input.

00:40:51.443 –> 00:40:56.423
Dan Lancaster: I was like, because we were singing it, ah, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.

00:40:56.423 –> 00:40:58.863
Oli Sykes: We were trying to work out the chorus originally.

00:40:58.903 –> 00:41:01.303
Oli Sykes: There was just like a random offshoot of that.

00:41:01.303 –> 00:41:13.583
Oli Sykes: But we really liked the, just sometimes like, this sounds bad, but like sometimes like you just wish that rock music didn’t always have to have guitars, even though it’s like it would be crap without them.

00:41:13.583 –> 00:41:19.223
Oli Sykes: But then sometimes like, this bit sounds so good without when it’s just like The Simpsons stuff.

00:41:19.223 –> 00:41:23.103
Oli Sykes: But obviously, it’s not big enough or whatever.

00:41:23.103 –> 00:41:26.303
Oli Sykes: But I wish everyone could hear this part.

00:41:26.303 –> 00:41:30.163
Oli Sykes: Just like what’s going into it without, you know, without the band.

00:41:30.163 –> 00:41:31.443
Oli Sykes: And so we put it at the end.

00:41:31.443 –> 00:41:32.823
Oli Sykes: We’re like, it’d be so cool to have it.

00:41:32.823 –> 00:41:34.603
Oli Sykes: But it’s a bit random.

00:41:34.603 –> 00:41:37.683
Oli Sykes: So we’re like, I guess we just kind of like, let’s make it more random.

00:41:37.683 –> 00:41:39.803
Dan Lancaster: This bunch of…

00:41:41.723 –> 00:41:43.283
Dan Lancaster: Is what Oli means.

00:41:43.283 –> 00:41:47.343
Dan Lancaster: And it was running through the chorus.

00:41:47.343 –> 00:41:48.603
Dan Lancaster: Every chorus, this stuff here.

00:41:56.353 –> 00:41:57.513
Dan Lancaster: All that stuff.

00:41:57.513 –> 00:42:01.613
Dan Lancaster: And then we slapped it at the end without everything else.

00:42:01.613 –> 00:42:04.913
Dan Lancaster: La, la, la, la, and he was wearing his thing.

00:42:04.913 –> 00:42:07.993
Dan Lancaster: And we recorded it through that, and it was one take.

00:42:07.993 –> 00:42:12.013
Oli Sykes: Yeah, and you kind of just made it in time and stuff from the thing that’s cool.

00:42:12.013 –> 00:42:15.753
Dan Lancaster: And that happened out of nowhere, right at the end of kind of rock.

00:42:15.753 –> 00:42:17.613
Oli Sykes: We weren’t planning on keeping it on, really.

00:42:17.613 –> 00:42:18.833
Oli Sykes: I think we like left it there like-

00:42:18.833 –> 00:42:19.793
Dan Lancaster: It was a joke, I think.

00:42:19.793 –> 00:42:21.873
Oli Sykes: Yeah, and then it kind of grew on us.

00:42:22.613 –> 00:42:23.253
Dan Lancaster: But yeah.

00:42:23.253 –> 00:42:24.373
John Kennedy: Yeah, I really like it.

00:42:24.373 –> 00:42:24.933
John Kennedy: We should have hear it.

00:42:25.813 –> 00:42:26.753
Dan Lancaster: The vogue we are.

00:42:26.753 –> 00:42:27.033
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:42:52.346 –> 00:42:58.286
John Kennedy: I think it’s great, because it kind of illustrates this thing that you’re doing every day when you’re recording.

00:42:58.766 –> 00:43:07.766
John Kennedy: There’s this constant conversation and changing, as we just heard, that happens all the time, and kind of get a little window into that.

00:43:07.766 –> 00:43:11.286
John Kennedy: We’re going to look at top 10 stats used that cry blood.

00:43:11.286 –> 00:43:14.046
John Kennedy: We’re going to take a quick break, and we’ll be back with that in just a moment.

00:43:35.306 –> 00:43:41.746
John Kennedy: This episode is being supported by Tape It, the ultimate iPhone voice note app designed specifically for musicians.

00:43:41.746 –> 00:43:53.126
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00:43:53.126 –> 00:43:59.466
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00:43:59.466 –> 00:44:05.866
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00:44:05.866 –> 00:44:12.446
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00:44:12.446 –> 00:44:17.906
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00:44:17.906 –> 00:44:20.366
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00:44:20.366 –> 00:44:22.206
John Kennedy: Now on with the show.

00:44:26.046 –> 00:44:34.286
John Kennedy: This episode is brought to you by Roland Cloud, a service giving you access to Roland’s suite of iconic software synthesizers, drum machines and sampled instruments.

00:44:34.286 –> 00:44:40.466
John Kennedy: And we have a special offer for any Tape Notes listeners, a 30-day free trial and 10% off membership.

00:44:40.466 –> 00:44:43.206
John Kennedy: And here to tell us more about it is Brandon from Roland.

00:44:43.206 –> 00:44:43.966
John Kennedy: Hi, Brandon.

00:44:43.966 –> 00:44:44.666
Brandon: Hello.

00:44:44.666 –> 00:44:45.826
Brandon: Thanks for having me.

00:44:45.826 –> 00:44:49.266
John Kennedy: Roland instruments are name checked all the time by guests on Tape Notes.

00:44:49.266 –> 00:44:51.446
John Kennedy: What is the Roland Cloud?

00:44:51.446 –> 00:44:55.246
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00:45:08.126 –> 00:45:10.866
John Kennedy: You can access Roland Cloud across three different tiers.

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John Kennedy: What do they include, Brandon?

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Brandon: Well, the core tier is $3 a month, and that gets you just basic access to some of the apps and sound content for hardware mainly.

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Brandon: That’s at $10 a month, and that gets you our Zenology synthesizer, which kind of covers a little bit of the whole history.

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Brandon: But the real action is with the ultimate tier, and that gets you everything Roland Cloud has to offer, including DW sound works, drums, earth piano, all of the legendary synthesizers and effects.

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Brandon: And it also includes the Galaxia Super Instrument, which lets you search across the entire library, stack instruments, apply macro controls, and basically play the whole thing like a single instrument that you can use in the studio, live, or drop it in your favorite DAWs, an AU or VST plugin.

00:45:55.566 –> 00:45:56.366
John Kennedy: Sounds amazing.

00:45:56.366 –> 00:45:58.546
John Kennedy: Tell us about the offer for Tape Notes listeners.

00:45:58.546 –> 00:46:04.826
Brandon: So for Tape Notes listeners, we have the Roland Cloud Ultimate Free Trial for 30 days, which gives you everything Roland Cloud has to offer.

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Brandon: And there are only a hundred of these available, so don’t miss out.

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John Kennedy: Thanks, Brandon.

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John Kennedy: To try out Roland Cloud Ultimate for yourself and start using some of their iconic instruments, head to rolandcloud.com and use the code tapenotesrc-1024 for 10% off while supplies last.

00:46:29.106 –> 00:46:32.806
John Kennedy: The next one we’re going to look at is top 10 statues that cried blood.

00:46:32.806 –> 00:46:34.966
John Kennedy: If you can play a Blast of the Master Dan, that would be great.

00:47:31.895 –> 00:47:37.355
John Kennedy: It is just a little taste of top 10 statues that cry blood from POST HUMAN NeX GEN.

00:47:37.355 –> 00:47:38.695
John Kennedy: What was the purpose of this then?

00:47:38.695 –> 00:47:42.635
John Kennedy: It sounds like with every song, you’ve got a purpose in mind for what you’re doing.

00:47:42.635 –> 00:47:45.195
John Kennedy: And what did you want this to do?

00:47:45.195 –> 00:47:49.555
Oli Sykes: I think it was like a feel-good banger, Anthem at Summer kind of vibe.

00:47:49.555 –> 00:47:51.195
Dan Lancaster: You mentioned radio when we started the…

00:47:51.195 –> 00:47:52.955
Lee Malia: Rescue me.

00:47:52.975 –> 00:47:59.455
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, so then we haven’t got one that’s latent radio maybe, and that was filling that gap in our minds.

00:47:59.455 –> 00:48:07.755
John Kennedy: Yeah, because I mean, it’s interesting, musically, the band referenced so many different genres and then styles within those genres.

00:48:07.755 –> 00:48:10.815
John Kennedy: So that fits, that makes perfect sense when you mentioned radio.

00:48:10.955 –> 00:48:17.055
John Kennedy: It kind of taps into those successive decades of rock stylings in a way.

00:48:17.055 –> 00:48:23.675
Oli Sykes: Yeah, I mean, obviously, like I said, this whole record is like a kind of ode to like emo, post-hardcore and all this stuff.

00:48:23.675 –> 00:48:33.775
Oli Sykes: And I think one sound that was one of the big influences on me growing up was like Funeral for a Friend and Taking Back Sunday.

00:48:33.975 –> 00:48:39.155
Oli Sykes: And kind of more like melodic, metal-y kind of post-hardcore.

00:48:39.155 –> 00:48:49.595
Oli Sykes: And it’s a sound that’s really didn’t age well, or it’s not, you know, like obviously, like you have a lot of bands these days that still sound quite new, metal-y and stuff like that.

00:48:49.595 –> 00:48:53.615
Oli Sykes: But you don’t have many current emo bands, you know what I mean?

00:48:53.615 –> 00:49:06.495
Oli Sykes: And that was actually a surprisingly difficult part about making this record is like, we had no point of reference to how to make emo sound contemporary and like modern, because no one’s done it.

00:49:06.495 –> 00:49:16.295
Oli Sykes: But I really wanted to, because I really like those kind of like slightly avenged sevenfold, you know, for a friend kind of metallic melodic riffs, I’ve just got a real soft spot for them.

00:49:16.295 –> 00:49:21.475
Oli Sykes: But like obviously trying to make that feel contemporary was difficult.

00:49:21.475 –> 00:49:35.855
Oli Sykes: So we ended up layering them with like tons of synths, making it feel slightly, for lack of a better word, hyper-poppy and also like trying to make it feel like massively like a pop song as well at the same time.

00:49:35.855 –> 00:49:39.095
Oli Sykes: So you have all these quite intricate detailed riffs going on.

00:49:39.095 –> 00:49:43.235
Oli Sykes: But if you just like someone who likes pop music, it’s not even registering.

00:49:43.235 –> 00:49:48.855
Oli Sykes: But then if you are someone who likes metal music and all that stuff, you are hearing that riff and like, oh, that’s actually quite a techie little riff going on there.

00:49:48.855 –> 00:49:55.655
Oli Sykes: So we’re just trying to find that balance where it wasn’t imposing on the the vocals themselves and it would do in its own thing.

00:49:55.775 –> 00:50:02.895
Oli Sykes: But yeah, not like, not getting in the way of the song because obviously they do feel quite a big space.

00:50:02.895 –> 00:50:04.775
Oli Sykes: So it’s quite easy for that to happen.

00:50:04.775 –> 00:50:05.215
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:50:05.215 –> 00:50:07.495
John Kennedy: And so is Lee doing this all the time?

00:50:07.495 –> 00:50:12.115
John Kennedy: Or are you constantly recording riff ideas?

00:50:12.115 –> 00:50:13.515
Lee Malia: Well, that made it.

00:50:13.515 –> 00:50:15.475
Dan Lancaster: So I went in the verse.

00:50:15.475 –> 00:50:20.455
Dan Lancaster: This is where the really kind of, you know, Venge Seventh, Oli’s, Union for a Friend type of riff is.

00:50:20.455 –> 00:50:21.455
Dan Lancaster: I just played.

00:50:21.455 –> 00:50:28.375
Dan Lancaster: That would have been me going, something like that on the keyboard with a synth.

00:50:28.375 –> 00:50:35.895
Dan Lancaster: And then considering how to turn that into a guitar, maybe scrapping it as a synth, but then they kind of tuck in together.

00:50:35.895 –> 00:50:36.415
Lee Malia: Yeah.

00:50:36.415 –> 00:50:39.135
Oli Sykes: You took it and made it more of an actual riff, didn’t you?

00:50:39.135 –> 00:50:46.415
Lee Malia: Well, the thing is, it’s cool because when Dan’s doing that on a keyboard, you’re not necessarily thinking about it as a guitar, are you?

00:50:46.415 –> 00:50:47.675
Lee Malia: It’s like, well, if it sounds good.

00:50:47.735 –> 00:50:50.735
Lee Malia: So then when you play it, it’s way more interesting.

00:50:50.735 –> 00:50:57.155
Lee Malia: Do you know, like when you play a guitar, you get stuck in like, oh, these notes work together or this is how riffs should be like built and stuff.

00:50:57.155 –> 00:50:58.675
Lee Malia: And it’s not thought about in that way.

00:50:58.675 –> 00:51:01.495
Lee Malia: So it’s like a different approach to writing a riff.

00:51:01.495 –> 00:51:04.675
Lee Malia: So it just makes it a lot more interesting, I think.

00:51:04.675 –> 00:51:09.255
Lee Malia: Because you can get set in your ways of like notes that work and all this stuff, whereas…

00:51:09.255 –> 00:51:10.375
Dan Lancaster: Like where your fingers come and go.

00:51:10.475 –> 00:51:10.935
Lee Malia: Yeah.

00:51:10.935 –> 00:51:16.715
Lee Malia: And if it’s like unplayable, trying to figure out ways to make it actually work on a guitar and stuff like that.

00:51:16.815 –> 00:51:18.015
Dan Lancaster: So there’s a few of them.

00:51:18.015 –> 00:51:19.515
Dan Lancaster: Let me just check what’s what.

00:51:19.515 –> 00:51:21.175
Lee Malia: You can tell it’s like a MIDI thing.

00:51:30.077 –> 00:51:35.437
John Kennedy: So what we end up hearing, is it just the midi, or do you replay that and then re-record it?

00:51:35.437 –> 00:51:37.737
Lee Malia: I don’t know what’s mixed in at the end, John.

00:51:37.737 –> 00:51:39.737
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

00:51:39.737 –> 00:51:40.557
Lee Malia: Maybe.

00:51:40.557 –> 00:51:41.177
Oli Sykes: It’s a balance.

00:51:41.717 –> 00:51:44.397
Dan Lancaster: This is quite actual guitar heavy, yeah.

00:51:44.397 –> 00:51:44.917
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:51:44.917 –> 00:51:46.297
Dan Lancaster: Based around.

00:51:48.497 –> 00:51:50.757
Dan Lancaster: Ooh, that sounds like a midi guitar.

00:51:52.277 –> 00:51:55.637
Dan Lancaster: And then Chugs.

00:52:00.137 –> 00:52:02.957
Dan Lancaster: That’s very funeral for a friend, isn’t it?

00:52:03.357 –> 00:52:05.337
Lee Malia: So that’s a lot of the leads midi, isn’t it?

00:52:05.337 –> 00:52:06.537
Dan Lancaster: That bit, yeah.

00:52:06.537 –> 00:52:08.817
Dan Lancaster: And then the synth sound like…

00:52:10.597 –> 00:52:12.457
Dan Lancaster: That was my original synth.

00:52:13.177 –> 00:52:14.057
Dan Lancaster: The synth.

00:52:14.617 –> 00:52:15.217
Dan Lancaster: I just remember.

00:52:15.217 –> 00:52:16.397
Oli Sykes: All right, yeah, then.

00:52:16.397 –> 00:52:18.077
Dan Lancaster: But the bling-bong, bling-bong stuff.

00:52:18.097 –> 00:52:18.937
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, yeah.

00:52:18.937 –> 00:52:20.397
Dan Lancaster: That’s gone crazy as well on this one.

00:52:20.597 –> 00:52:22.897
Oli Sykes: So yeah, the first one, is there a car screech?

00:52:22.897 –> 00:52:24.917
Oli Sykes: Like a car pulling up in like a…

00:52:24.917 –> 00:52:28.637
Oli Sykes: There’s like an error PC sound, there’s like a ba-dum on the first verse.

00:52:40.010 –> 00:52:41.930
Oli Sykes: There you go, the car.

00:52:41.930 –> 00:52:44.130
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, you can say for the most part, that’s all Die Die.

00:52:44.130 –> 00:52:45.930
Dan Lancaster: Here’s the cat, by the way.

00:52:50.570 –> 00:53:01.370
John Kennedy: So while you’re kind of talking about making the song and different ideas about it, you’ve got your mate Die Die in the corner just kind of hearing that conversation, but also just playing around with sound.

00:53:01.430 –> 00:53:07.710
Lee Malia: Yeah, he’s usually got headphones on, then you go whisper something to him, he’ll put headphones back on, and then an hour later…

00:53:07.710 –> 00:53:09.530
Oli Sykes: I go out for a ciggy and he’ll go…

00:53:09.530 –> 00:53:12.610
Lee Malia: There’ll be some mad noise you’ve never heard before.

00:53:12.610 –> 00:53:19.750
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, he’s got the headphones on, there’s a language barrier as well, but he speaks English for sure, but it just makes him even more quirky, doesn’t it?

00:53:19.750 –> 00:53:26.750
Dan Lancaster: Because of that barrier, he’s just a dude with headphones on for hours, not really saying much, and then comes out with that, it’s cool.

00:53:26.750 –> 00:53:35.350
John Kennedy: And at what point do you think you started to embrace that whole world over a whole variety of different sounds?

00:53:35.350 –> 00:53:43.250
John Kennedy: Because obviously, you started out, you’re a band, you’ve got guitars, you make lots of noise, and you play it straight ahead.

00:53:43.250 –> 00:53:46.730
John Kennedy: Because the interesting thing is that collision of worlds, isn’t it?

00:53:46.730 –> 00:53:57.690
John Kennedy: So at one point, you’ve got all this crazy electronic stuff that is going on in its own world, and it’s getting noisier and noisier, but it isn’t necessarily anything to do with metal.

00:53:57.690 –> 00:54:08.250
John Kennedy: But then somehow the two cross over, and you all listen to each other’s work, and then you have really successfully managed to bring in so much of that into what you do.

00:54:08.250 –> 00:54:14.130
Oli Sykes: I think it’s kind of like a little secret trick for us to make things feel fresh that otherwise wouldn’t.

00:54:14.130 –> 00:54:20.070
Oli Sykes: I mean, this song without all that would sound like a song plucked straight out of 2004, do you know what I mean?

00:54:20.070 –> 00:54:24.930
Oli Sykes: So it’s a little almost cheat to make it feel fresh by having this influence.

00:54:24.930 –> 00:54:34.390
Oli Sykes: But obviously, like Lee said, like that influence ends up bleeding into what we do as well, changing the way we take stuff on, do you know what I mean?

00:54:34.390 –> 00:54:37.650
Oli Sykes: Like actually, this phrase came out a lot, humanize.

00:54:37.650 –> 00:54:41.270
Oli Sykes: We end up like making mental stuff, and it’s like, all right, let’s humanize it.

00:54:41.270 –> 00:54:49.730
Oli Sykes: Let’s make it playable and stuff, which is in the same way what I was saying about, it’s great to have Dai Dai because I’m not pushing him to go crazier.

00:54:49.730 –> 00:54:52.210
Oli Sykes: I’m actually having to pull him back.

00:54:52.210 –> 00:54:57.630
Oli Sykes: So rather than me going, oh, that’s good, but could we do something more insane and blah, blah, blah, blah, which is usually what I want.

00:54:57.990 –> 00:55:01.790
Oli Sykes: I don’t particularly like symmetry and perfection in songs.

00:55:01.790 –> 00:55:05.250
Oli Sykes: I want a bit to happen that happens once and never again and stuff like that.

00:55:05.250 –> 00:55:08.590
Lee Malia: You can hear that though, even in our first ever CDs and stuff.

00:55:08.590 –> 00:55:12.170
Lee Malia: I remember if we repeated a riff, you’d just be like, I hate it.

00:55:12.170 –> 00:55:14.330
Lee Malia: Every riff could never repeat in the song.

00:55:14.330 –> 00:55:20.410
Lee Malia: That’s why the songs, obviously, because we weren’t as good at structuring and stuff back then, it sounds disjointed.

00:55:20.770 –> 00:55:23.650
Lee Malia: But you always wanted something fresh.

00:55:23.650 –> 00:55:24.810
Lee Malia: A riff could never come back.

00:55:25.210 –> 00:55:29.590
Lee Malia: I mean, again, it’d just be like, well, even if it did, you had to change one note just to satisfy you.

00:55:29.590 –> 00:55:31.010
Lee Malia: It’s so different.

00:55:31.010 –> 00:55:32.610
Oli Sykes: And it was terrible.

00:55:32.970 –> 00:55:37.230
Oli Sykes: And I think as we got better at songwriting, I started to realize all that.

00:55:37.230 –> 00:55:39.610
Oli Sykes: That’s why we have a verse and a chorus.

00:55:39.610 –> 00:55:56.810
Oli Sykes: And learning all that, but with this record, it was like, I was listening to the Rick Rubin book, whatever it’s called, and he just helped me wake up a lot of childlike wonder in myself, where it’s like, I have turned my back on a lot of that stuff.

00:55:56.810 –> 00:56:02.750
Oli Sykes: I always used to think as a kid, why do bands make, why do their albums, every track sound the same?

00:56:02.750 –> 00:56:06.010
Oli Sykes: Why ain’t one song like a reggae song, and the next song’s like a metal song?

00:56:06.010 –> 00:56:06.930
Oli Sykes: And I always used to think this.

00:56:06.930 –> 00:56:08.770
Oli Sykes: And why do they all play the same instruments?

00:56:08.770 –> 00:56:09.790
Oli Sykes: Why don’t they swap around?

00:56:10.550 –> 00:56:15.770
Oli Sykes: I had all these weird ideas about, I don’t understand why every song sounds the same.

00:56:15.770 –> 00:56:20.790
Oli Sykes: And then it’s like, oh, because people that like certain music want to hear that kind of thing.

00:56:20.910 –> 00:56:23.890
Oli Sykes: But at first, we’re always trying to challenge that.

00:56:23.890 –> 00:56:32.970
Oli Sykes: And then as we’ve kind of understood it more, like kind of like, OK, so there’s some certain rules that make sense to play by.

00:56:32.970 –> 00:56:36.170
Oli Sykes: But I think with this record, it were like, but where can we rip up that rule book?

00:56:36.170 –> 00:56:45.690
Oli Sykes: And where can we do stuff that isn’t necessarily going to affect the listener’s enjoyment of it, but it’s going to satisfy my creative urge to like it not be perfect.

00:56:45.690 –> 00:56:46.890
Oli Sykes: And do you know what I mean?

00:56:46.890 –> 00:57:02.110
Oli Sykes: So it was like finding other avenues to like, just do things that, whether it’s just for some weird, like creative, I don’t know, satisfaction that I need to fulfill or whatever, I don’t know what it is quite, but for me, I need that.

00:57:02.110 –> 00:57:08.070
Oli Sykes: So it’s great to have someone like Dai Dai that’s just like, he’s too much rather than not enough.

00:57:08.070 –> 00:57:08.770
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

00:57:08.770 –> 00:57:12.150
Oli Sykes: So it is, he was like a perfect addition to like our team.

00:57:12.190 –> 00:57:14.470
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, fascinating.

00:57:14.470 –> 00:57:16.910
John Kennedy: What else should we hear from Statues?

00:57:17.890 –> 00:57:23.150
Dan Lancaster: I’m kind of proud of the chorus performance from Oli.

00:57:23.150 –> 00:57:26.770
Dan Lancaster: I think it’s one of your final vocal performances.

00:57:26.770 –> 00:57:28.030
Dan Lancaster: I don’t know if you agree, but.

00:57:28.030 –> 00:57:28.970
Oli Sykes: That’s a bad bunch.

00:57:29.310 –> 00:57:29.450
Dan Lancaster: No.

00:57:29.450 –> 00:57:48.390
Dan Lancaster: I was gonna come and rescue me I’m drowning in my sleep The skies have got too deep And no amount of love could save me It’s worth noting that Bring Me Rolls is quite dirty with not having fancy studio stuff.

00:57:48.390 –> 00:57:49.110
Dan Lancaster: You know what I mean?

00:57:49.110 –> 00:57:53.510
Dan Lancaster: So Oli likes to hold the mic and things like that.

00:57:53.510 –> 00:57:56.670
Dan Lancaster: And it can be recorded in hotel rooms and things like that.

00:57:56.670 –> 00:58:01.330
Dan Lancaster: It’s all kind of stitched together over all the production.

00:58:01.330 –> 00:58:06.650
Dan Lancaster: This one was done in their studio, but yeah, it’s an interesting approach that they have.

00:58:06.650 –> 00:58:07.710
Dan Lancaster: There’s no bells and whistles.

00:58:07.890 –> 00:58:10.170
Dan Lancaster: It’s in the computer making a demo.

00:58:10.170 –> 00:58:11.790
Oli Sykes: We kind of pushed it harder on this one as well.

00:58:11.790 –> 00:58:14.370
Oli Sykes: I was like almost wanting that as well.

00:58:14.370 –> 00:58:17.230
Oli Sykes: Wanting the demo version and stuff just to have it.

00:58:17.230 –> 00:58:23.070
Oli Sykes: I mean, this is a better one compared to Somewhere I’m On The Record where it’s just like, it’s demo stuff that we realized were cool.

00:58:23.070 –> 00:58:26.270
Oli Sykes: Like after a year and we just dug it out.

00:58:27.490 –> 00:58:32.690
Oli Sykes: I’ll have this program Moises, which is like the bane of everyone else’s existence.

00:58:32.690 –> 00:58:44.090
Oli Sykes: Because I’m not like a producer in terms of like, I can’t do what he does on Pro Tools, but I can sit on logic and separate stuff and go on Splice and find some stuff.

00:58:44.090 –> 00:58:50.410
Oli Sykes: So a lot of it is just like vocals that have been ripped off all demos that I’ve realized I like more than anything else and stuff like that.

00:58:50.410 –> 00:58:53.890
Oli Sykes: And this is the first time we’ve really been like, okay, let’s do it.

00:58:53.890 –> 00:58:54.510
Oli Sykes: Let’s put it on there.

00:58:54.570 –> 00:58:59.430
Oli Sykes: Whereas usually there was some kickback from someone going, you can’t, that sounds terrible.

00:58:59.430 –> 00:58:59.970
Oli Sykes: You can’t do that.

00:58:59.970 –> 00:59:02.770
Lee Malia: Suits the vibe of this album though, doesn’t it?

00:59:02.770 –> 00:59:09.070
Lee Malia: It’s a bit more like, it’s like experimental, but the songs aren’t, if you know what the sounds are.

00:59:09.070 –> 00:59:18.970
John Kennedy: So you kind of keep that direct communication in a way, know that people understand what you’re getting at and striving for, but you keep it interesting because you’ve got all this other stuff going on at the same time.

00:59:18.970 –> 00:59:41.610
Oli Sykes: I mean, you look at some of the most influential and artists that left a stamp on music in the last 10 years, like Little Peep and stuff like that, and they were all just recording on USB mics and doing one take, and no one were going, oh, but how do we get this sound and how do we get the mids right and the EQs and no one cared, you know what I mean?

00:59:41.610 –> 00:59:45.050
Oli Sykes: And kids absolutely go mental for it, you know what I mean?

00:59:45.250 –> 01:00:03.170
Lee Malia: It’s true though, because one of my favourite CDs is Bon Iver’s first CD, and I think the thing is that he did all that on like an SM57 or whatever, and the sound of it works so well because it suits the CD and stuff, and I never cared, I was never like, oh, I wonder what condenser he’s using.

01:00:03.250 –> 01:00:16.170
Oli Sykes: You do really, especially reading a band and getting to work with people you think you want to work with, you realise, I think we realise this maybe halfway through our career, you don’t love a band because of the way, you don’t love a record because of the way it sounds.

01:00:16.170 –> 01:00:20.110
Oli Sykes: You love the way that the record sounds because you love that band, that album so much.

01:00:20.110 –> 01:00:23.990
Oli Sykes: So for instance, like, you like, this record’s perfect.

01:00:23.990 –> 01:00:25.490
Oli Sykes: It sounds so good.

01:00:25.490 –> 01:00:27.770
Oli Sykes: And then you get to work with that person.

01:00:27.770 –> 01:00:30.730
Oli Sykes: And then you go back to the record and you go, wait a minute, it’s not.

01:00:30.730 –> 01:00:37.090
Oli Sykes: It’s not because the record sounds good itself, it’s because the songs are so good that everything has become iconic because of it.

01:00:37.090 –> 01:00:39.930
Oli Sykes: The drum sounds become iconic, but it’s not a good drum sound.

01:00:39.930 –> 01:00:41.390
Oli Sykes: It’s the worst drum sound ever, actually.

01:00:41.990 –> 01:00:56.090
Lee Malia: Yeah, in different times as well, because if you A, B, like a modern drum sound to like something in the 90s or 2000s, you’re instantly like, oh, it’s not as good because it’s quieter or whatever, but it’s just a totally different thing in it back then and now.

01:00:56.090 –> 01:01:01.090
Oli Sykes: Things become iconic, like Metallica’s, there’s some kind of monster album.

01:01:01.090 –> 01:01:01.310
Lee Malia: St.

01:01:01.310 –> 01:01:01.710
Lee Malia: Anger.

01:01:01.710 –> 01:01:01.910
Oli Sykes: St.

01:01:01.910 –> 01:01:02.790
Oli Sykes: Anger.

01:01:02.790 –> 01:01:07.010
Oli Sykes: If that was a good album, that drum sound would have become iconic.

01:01:07.010 –> 01:01:10.610
Oli Sykes: Because it’s a bad album, it’s the worst drum snare sound ever.

01:01:10.790 –> 01:01:14.630
Oli Sykes: But I think if the record was amazing, you would have learned to love that snare.

01:01:14.630 –> 01:01:20.690
Lee Malia: Because it’s a pretty similar snare when I disappear and that’s a good song, so you never think about it.

01:01:20.690 –> 01:01:26.410
Oli Sykes: So you do realise that it’s not to do with the sonics of the record, really.

01:01:26.410 –> 01:01:30.890
Oli Sykes: It’s like if the record’s good, everything around it becomes iconic because of it.

01:01:30.890 –> 01:01:31.790
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

01:01:31.790 –> 01:01:41.430
Oli Sykes: And that’s a really hard thing when you start wanting to work with producers and then you work with them and you’re like, are they doing the thing that we said we wanted but we don’t want it because it’s not actually good for us.

01:01:41.430 –> 01:01:44.450
Oli Sykes: It’s not actually like what we’re so good about that record.

01:01:44.450 –> 01:01:46.250
Oli Sykes: It was a fact that we love the record.

01:01:46.250 –> 01:01:54.410
Oli Sykes: So in today’s time, when everyone can make a really polished sounding song, it’s like no one’s excited about it.

01:01:54.410 –> 01:01:55.770
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

01:01:55.770 –> 01:02:21.650
John Kennedy: So, I mean, Dan’s role is to be able to capture your ideas and do that as quick as you’re having them and manipulate and change them according to the changes that you keep thinking of, because it sounds like you come up with an idea, analyze it, throw it away, new idea, and you’ve got to respond to that and make sure that you can take a little bit of guitar recording in Indonesia along with the vocal recorded note in the shed.

01:02:21.650 –> 01:02:27.130
John Kennedy: Is there any point when the band are all in the studio together playing this song?

01:02:27.490 –> 01:02:30.550
John Kennedy: So that really doesn’t happen until you can take it then to the stage.

01:02:30.790 –> 01:02:32.530
Dan Lancaster: Rehearsal, I guess, yeah.

01:02:32.530 –> 01:02:38.070
Lee Malia: And then it’s like figuring out, like you say, humanizing, and what’s going to work live and stuff like that.

01:02:38.070 –> 01:02:46.410
Lee Malia: Because obviously some stuff on some of the songs where the whole song’s been glitched, and which unless like your front of house guy is doing it and stuff like that.

01:02:46.410 –> 01:02:48.310
Lee Malia: So we have to figure out how to work it.

01:02:48.310 –> 01:02:48.810
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:02:48.810 –> 01:02:51.710
Lee Malia: To like a live song sometimes.

01:02:51.710 –> 01:03:00.130
Lee Malia: But I think, I can’t think the last, the last probably Semper Terno was the last time we jammed the songs in the studio before recording them and stuff.

01:03:00.430 –> 01:03:01.570
Lee Malia: Yeah.

01:03:01.570 –> 01:03:03.430
Lee Malia: And then it kind of just got.

01:03:03.430 –> 01:03:10.790
Oli Sykes: We got closer to that with some of the last stuff we’re doing in terms of us all being together and working, you know, in harmony on the stuff.

01:03:10.790 –> 01:03:12.130
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

01:03:12.130 –> 01:03:17.330
Oli Sykes: The reality is, is it’s not actually the best way to make music, at least for us in terms of like.

01:03:17.330 –> 01:03:18.250
Lee Malia: It’s so fast moving.

01:03:18.250 –> 01:03:26.190
Lee Malia: So if you’ve just said, Dan’s like programmed some crazy MIDI guitar and it sounds cool, then if I say like, Oh, just give me an hour to learn that then.

01:03:26.190 –> 01:03:27.770
Lee Malia: And then everyone’s just sat about waiting.

01:03:27.770 –> 01:03:28.550
Lee Malia: It doesn’t work like that.

01:03:28.590 –> 01:03:30.610
Lee Malia: You’ve got to move on to the next part and stuff like that.

01:03:30.610 –> 01:03:33.450
Lee Malia: Or if you say like, Oh, Matt, go and write some drums.

01:03:33.450 –> 01:03:34.810
Lee Malia: Could take him two, three hours.

01:03:34.810 –> 01:03:35.350
Lee Malia: Do you know what I mean?

01:03:35.350 –> 01:03:36.190
Lee Malia: So you’re waiting.

01:03:36.190 –> 01:03:37.990
Lee Malia: That’s the way we used to write.

01:03:37.990 –> 01:03:40.990
Lee Malia: And then you have to teach everyone else the guitar part and stuff like that.

01:03:40.990 –> 01:03:43.310
Lee Malia: Whereas it’s all so fast moving.

01:03:43.310 –> 01:03:44.730
Lee Malia: He’s just got to get going.

01:03:44.730 –> 01:03:47.010
Oli Sykes: And everyone’s like ADHD.

01:03:47.010 –> 01:03:52.310
Oli Sykes: So everyone’s like, Matt’s in the matter of time, if you’re telling him to stop playing drums, it’ll just come back to it.

01:03:52.310 –> 01:03:55.230
Oli Sykes: And then he’s just whacking drums while you’re trying to explain to someone else.

01:03:55.290 –> 01:04:00.110
Oli Sykes: It’s just, yeah, it’s, we are going to get to that.

01:04:00.110 –> 01:04:02.610
Oli Sykes: I think we’d like to get to that point where we have the jam room there.

01:04:02.610 –> 01:04:10.650
Oli Sykes: So we still write the way we do, but we go and, cause that is one thing that we never know how a song is going to be live until we are on stage playing it.

01:04:10.650 –> 01:04:14.790
Oli Sykes: And you know, sometimes you do like get on stage, you go, our song’s not good to play live, is it?

01:04:14.790 –> 01:04:18.030
Oli Sykes: Like it’s a great song, but it’s not fun to play live.

01:04:18.290 –> 01:04:25.530
Oli Sykes: Or there’s nothing the crowd can do to it and stuff, which isn’t always a bad thing, but it is weird not having that knowledge until you’re on stage.

01:04:25.530 –> 01:04:26.850
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, that’s interesting.

01:04:26.850 –> 01:04:29.090
John Kennedy: So can we dig into these drums then?

01:04:29.090 –> 01:04:34.330
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, so keep in mind that Zachary would have finished it.

01:04:34.330 –> 01:04:36.030
John Kennedy: So who is Zachary?

01:04:36.030 –> 01:04:37.070
John Kennedy: What’s his role?

01:04:37.070 –> 01:04:38.270
Dan Lancaster: He’s the Zacharizer.

01:04:38.270 –> 01:04:44.990
Dan Lancaster: So yeah, Zach’s a core part of how they make music at this point in time.

01:04:44.990 –> 01:04:49.670
Dan Lancaster: And he lives in LA, so he’s always on Zoom.

01:04:49.670 –> 01:04:51.330
Dan Lancaster: Sometimes he’ll be on tour and stuff like that.

01:04:52.070 –> 01:04:55.350
Oli Sykes: Yeah, he joined us on tour quite a lot over the last few years.

01:04:55.350 –> 01:04:58.630
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, and especially towards the end, it’s kind of better for him to be there.

01:04:58.630 –> 01:05:05.910
Dan Lancaster: But a lot of the time, Zach can work on putting a guitar in, putting the drums out, because Zach’s a mixer as well.

01:05:05.910 –> 01:05:09.910
Dan Lancaster: So everything, you know, when you said, why does it sound so good?

01:05:09.910 –> 01:05:10.830
Dan Lancaster: This is just a demo.

01:05:10.830 –> 01:05:15.490
Dan Lancaster: It’s because they’re working with mixing engineers, basically, who actually finish songs.

01:05:15.490 –> 01:05:23.590
Dan Lancaster: So we’ve got ways of, you know, templating things and making it sound good without even doing anything.

01:05:23.590 –> 01:05:25.550
Dan Lancaster: It took 11 years or whatever to get to that point.

01:05:26.150 –> 01:05:33.150
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, so he’s always there doing something while me and Oli and Lee might be moving the song forwards in another way.

01:05:33.150 –> 01:05:37.790
Dan Lancaster: And then Zach will just send something through, or he’ll be live on audio movers.

01:05:37.790 –> 01:05:41.230
Dan Lancaster: And we can just flip between the two and kind of work as a team.

01:05:41.230 –> 01:05:43.890
Dan Lancaster: So he’s a big part of everything that’s going on.

01:05:43.890 –> 01:05:47.270
Dan Lancaster: He’s dealing with a lot of, you know, ideas.

01:05:47.630 –> 01:05:48.990
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, he’s a machine, you know, yeah.

01:05:48.990 –> 01:05:52.130
Oli Sykes: Like the speed he can do stuff at, you’ve never seen or like it.

01:05:52.130 –> 01:05:52.770
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:05:52.770 –> 01:05:54.130
Dan Lancaster: So this is how it works.

01:05:54.130 –> 01:05:57.090
Dan Lancaster: Basically, we’ll draw in the MIDI.

01:05:59.110 –> 01:06:00.690
Dan Lancaster: Take the vocals off.

01:06:04.670 –> 01:06:10.290
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:06:10.290 –> 01:06:13.670
Dan Lancaster: So this is a bunch of drums going on basically.

01:06:13.670 –> 01:06:15.350
Dan Lancaster: And it’s coming out of contact.

01:06:15.350 –> 01:06:16.790
Dan Lancaster: And me and Zach are doing slightly different things.

01:06:17.310 –> 01:06:22.430
Dan Lancaster: I’ve got the label copy stems, which is all the remix stuff.

01:06:22.430 –> 01:06:25.350
Dan Lancaster: So Zach gave me back some printed stem of drums.

01:06:25.350 –> 01:06:29.610
Dan Lancaster: So I’ve just split it out into roughly what his looks like.

01:06:29.610 –> 01:06:32.610
Dan Lancaster: And they’re not exactly the same, but…

01:06:32.610 –> 01:06:43.570
Dan Lancaster: So that’s the core of the rock production, is being able to just move kick drums, move snare drums, draw in fills, sometimes even playing them on MIDI things.

01:06:43.570 –> 01:06:45.990
Dan Lancaster: And then it sounds good as well.

01:06:46.130 –> 01:06:48.570
Dan Lancaster: So you can get the excitement from it.

01:06:48.570 –> 01:06:50.730
Dan Lancaster: But yeah, essentially, contact.

01:06:50.730 –> 01:06:58.030
Dan Lancaster: Me and Zac both use GGD, which is kind of the brains of the sound.

01:06:58.030 –> 01:07:05.910
Dan Lancaster: Split out into protocols, so treating it like a real drum kit, then adding samples, and it all just happens on one MIDI note, basically.

01:07:05.910 –> 01:07:08.450
Dan Lancaster: So yeah, that’s the core of it.

01:07:08.450 –> 01:07:13.810
Dan Lancaster: And then bass guitar, again, can be MIDI or played, but is often MIDI.

01:07:14.990 –> 01:07:16.630
Dan Lancaster: I think this one’s live.

01:07:17.810 –> 01:07:19.450
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, this one’s live.

01:07:22.790 –> 01:07:31.470
Dan Lancaster: And then there’s always going to be a bass synth to give the little gaps, the bottom end or whatever.

01:07:31.470 –> 01:07:32.830
Dan Lancaster: Of course, the guitars as well.

01:07:42.083 –> 01:07:46.623
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, and then, this is a printed stem.

01:07:46.623 –> 01:07:54.243
Dan Lancaster: All the synths, which would probably look like big old sesh, you know?

01:07:54.243 –> 01:07:56.363
Oli Sykes: Oh, there’s the RJ Payson bit as well, isn’t there?

01:07:56.363 –> 01:08:00.263
Dan Lancaster: Oh yeah, and then Oli got this really sick guitarist.

01:08:00.263 –> 01:08:03.403
Dan Lancaster: His signature style is basically this.

01:08:03.403 –> 01:08:05.263
Oli Sykes: It just does mental glitchy.

01:08:08.363 –> 01:08:09.023
Dan Lancaster: Super cool.

01:08:09.023 –> 01:08:10.703
John Kennedy: Well, so who’s that again?

01:08:10.763 –> 01:08:11.803
Oli Sykes: RJ Payson, I think.

01:08:11.803 –> 01:08:13.483
Oli Sykes: Right.

01:08:13.483 –> 01:08:17.883
Oli Sykes: He’s got some Tik Tok kids that just sits and does all this crazy shit.

01:08:18.583 –> 01:08:23.103
Dan Lancaster: He like chops up and pitch shifts and stuff in Ableton with his guitar, and it’s just super sick, yeah.

01:08:33.248 –> 01:08:34.308
Dan Lancaster: And then, what happens then?

01:08:47.012 –> 01:08:48.592
Lee Malia: Who did that noise?

01:08:48.592 –> 01:08:50.552
Oli Sykes: Dye Dye, it’s got to be a Dye Dye.

01:08:50.572 –> 01:08:52.172
Lee Malia: Yeah, sounds like Dye Dye.

01:08:52.172 –> 01:08:53.712
Dan Lancaster: From early days, I think.

01:08:53.712 –> 01:08:54.672
Lee Malia: What even noise is that?

01:08:54.912 –> 01:08:55.592
Dan Lancaster: Let’s have a look.

01:09:01.480 –> 01:09:04.240
Oli Sykes: The Mario coin, yeah, this, this as well.

01:09:04.240 –> 01:09:05.540
Dan Lancaster: I love that.

01:09:08.140 –> 01:09:08.580
Dan Lancaster: So weird.

01:09:24.222 –> 01:09:25.522
Oli Sykes: I mean, that, you’ve got even here, do you?

01:09:25.722 –> 01:09:26.962
Oli Sykes: That’s crazy.

01:09:30.042 –> 01:09:32.522
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, you do, actually.

01:09:33.202 –> 01:09:33.822
Dan Lancaster: There you go, boys.

01:09:52.035 –> 01:09:55.955
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, it’s not that heavy on vocals, this song, to be honest.

01:09:55.955 –> 01:09:57.855
Dan Lancaster: The harmonies didn’t work, really.

01:09:57.855 –> 01:10:00.915
Dan Lancaster: They’re in there, but they can’t, they work, but they’re not prominent and stuff.

01:10:00.915 –> 01:10:02.175
Dan Lancaster: I thought it was Kool Aid.

01:10:02.235 –> 01:10:06.015
Dan Lancaster: It’s like a bit of a layer-slayer approach, and it kind of works.

01:10:06.015 –> 01:10:10.775
Dan Lancaster: But yeah, just left Oli to that melody, to crack on with that.

01:10:10.775 –> 01:10:11.595
John Kennedy: That’s great.

01:10:11.595 –> 01:10:17.115
John Kennedy: So that is Top 10 Statues That Cried Blood, and we didn’t even talk about the title.

01:10:17.115 –> 01:10:17.275
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:10:18.315 –> 01:10:20.655
Dan Lancaster: That’s because you can’t call it Rescue Me, right?

01:10:20.655 –> 01:10:21.435
Dan Lancaster: Pretty much.

01:10:21.435 –> 01:10:22.555
Oli Sykes: Because that’s a crap name.

01:10:22.595 –> 01:10:23.755
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:10:23.755 –> 01:10:26.355
Dan Lancaster: That’s what you would, the pop guy, and you would the radio.

01:10:26.355 –> 01:10:29.235
Oli Sykes: And it’s a very emo thing just to have some stupid long title.

01:10:29.355 –> 01:10:29.795
John Kennedy: Yeah, totally.

01:10:29.795 –> 01:10:32.355
Oli Sykes: I think it was just like a BuzzFeed news article.

01:10:32.355 –> 01:10:32.595
John Kennedy: Right.

01:10:32.595 –> 01:10:34.275
Oli Sykes: I saw it and I thought, that’s a cool name for a song.

01:10:34.275 –> 01:10:34.795
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:10:34.795 –> 01:10:35.355
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:10:35.355 –> 01:10:38.255
Oli Sykes: It’s not as deep as it goes.

01:10:38.255 –> 01:10:39.155
John Kennedy: Love it.

01:10:39.155 –> 01:10:43.015
John Kennedy: We’re going to take another break, and we’re going to look at Dig It next.

01:10:43.015 –> 01:10:43.215
Oli Sykes: Cool.

01:10:45.775 –> 01:10:50.895
John Kennedy: This episode is supported by Museversal, an amazing service for working with session musicians remotely.

01:10:50.895 –> 01:10:56.855
John Kennedy: If you use session musicians or would like to, but it’s been too expensive or hard to organize, this is for you.

01:10:56.855 –> 01:11:05.755
John Kennedy: We have a special Black Friday offer for any Tape Notes listeners, 33% off for the first three months and a free mixing session.

01:11:05.755 –> 01:11:07.335
John Kennedy: But more on that in a moment.

01:11:07.335 –> 01:11:10.755
John Kennedy: I’ve got David from Museversal here to tell us more about it.

01:11:10.755 –> 01:11:11.595
John Kennedy: Hi, David.

01:11:11.595 –> 01:11:12.495
John Kennedy: Great to have you on.

01:11:12.935 –> 01:11:14.735
John Kennedy: What is Museversal?

01:11:14.735 –> 01:11:16.235
David: Hey, thanks for having me here, John.

01:11:16.235 –> 01:11:17.655
David: I really appreciate it.

01:11:17.655 –> 01:11:24.295
David: Museversal is a platform to book unlimited remote recording sessions with world-class session musicians.

01:11:24.295 –> 01:11:31.395
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01:11:31.395 –> 01:11:36.635
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01:11:40.755 –> 01:11:45.935
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01:11:45.935 –> 01:11:50.255
John Kennedy: We’ve had lots of great feedback from Tape Notes listeners already using Musiversal.

01:11:50.255 –> 01:11:52.975
John Kennedy: Can you tell us more about the musicians that they’ve been working with?

01:11:52.975 –> 01:11:53.975
David: Yeah, absolutely.

01:11:53.975 –> 01:11:57.875
David: We have a super selective hiring process to make sure we’re only hiring the best.

01:11:57.935 –> 01:12:06.575
David: The result of that is that we have musicians who’ve worked for the likes of Elton John, The Killers, Jay-Z, multi-time Grammy winners, you name it, we’ve got it.

01:12:06.575 –> 01:12:13.795
David: We pay them a stable monthly income and the benefit for you as a member is that you get a roster that you can depend on around the clock.

01:12:13.795 –> 01:12:14.875
John Kennedy: Very impressive.

01:12:14.875 –> 01:12:16.375
John Kennedy: How does it work?

01:12:16.375 –> 01:12:18.735
David: Yeah, so it’s designed to be extremely easy.

01:12:18.735 –> 01:12:23.335
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01:12:23.335 –> 01:12:28.935
David: You can send sheet music, a chord chart, audio files, and then tell the musician what you’d like them to do.

01:12:28.935 –> 01:12:31.735
David: They can either play as is or improvise.

01:12:31.735 –> 01:12:36.075
David: Then you’ll join the musician over livestream and they’ll start recording right off the bat.

01:12:36.075 –> 01:12:42.335
David: Because the session’s live, it’s like you’re literally sitting in the studio with them and you get to give that feedback in real time.

01:12:42.335 –> 01:12:45.455
David: And then you’ll get your session files to download right afterwards.

01:12:45.455 –> 01:12:48.515
John Kennedy: And David, can you remind us of the offer for Tape Notes listeners?

01:12:48.515 –> 01:12:52.915
David: Yeah, so for Black Friday, we have a 33% discount off your first three months.

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01:12:59.075 –> 01:13:03.895
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David: So you got to go check it out now.

01:13:14.275 –> 01:13:14.915
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

01:13:14.915 –> 01:13:15.935
John Kennedy: Thanks so much, David.

01:13:15.935 –> 01:13:21.415
John Kennedy: To get the special Black Friday offer, find the link in any of our recent episode show notes.

01:13:21.415 –> 01:13:26.075
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at from POST HUMAN NEXT GEN is Dig It, the Closing Track.

01:13:26.075 –> 01:13:28.655
John Kennedy: Dan, if you can give us a taste of the master, that would be great.

01:13:28.655 –> 01:13:30.055
John Kennedy: Yes, sir.

01:13:30.055 –> 01:13:30.995
Dan Lancaster: Oh, no, you don’t want this.

01:13:30.995 –> 01:13:31.695
Brandon: I’m sorry.

01:13:31.695 –> 01:13:32.755
Brandon: This directory is encrypted.

01:13:32.775 –> 01:13:34.795
Oli Sykes: Best bit.

01:13:34.795 –> 01:13:37.555
Dan Lancaster: This is technically in the master, so you’re getting it.

01:13:37.655 –> 01:13:39.235
Oli Sykes: It helps give a bit of context.

01:13:39.235 –> 01:13:41.415
John Kennedy: Yeah, it does.

01:13:41.415 –> 01:13:44.675
Dan Lancaster: You have 132 documents and one audio log.

01:13:44.675 –> 01:13:46.775
John Kennedy: Whose is that voice?

01:13:46.775 –> 01:13:47.975
Oli Sykes: It’s AI.

01:13:47.975 –> 01:13:55.315
Oli Sykes: So this is meant to be a little AI assistant helper called M8, which is actually a little robot that’s on her shoulder.

01:13:55.315 –> 01:13:56.035
John Kennedy: Right.

01:13:56.035 –> 01:13:56.515
Oli Sykes: And the whole idea.

01:13:56.515 –> 01:13:59.095
John Kennedy: So if you look at the cover, then yeah, so that is M8 there.

01:13:59.675 –> 01:14:05.815
Oli Sykes: The whole idea of the story is just this kid here has just found the message from her mom that abandoned her.

01:14:05.815 –> 01:14:08.615
Oli Sykes: So this whole song is meant to be that message.

01:14:08.615 –> 01:14:20.955
Oli Sykes: And so like there’s a lot of actually like artifacts and glitching and stuff, which gets progressively worse throughout the song because the whole thing is meant to be like she’s decrypted the message, but it’s not it’s not quite whole.

01:14:20.955 –> 01:14:21.235
John Kennedy: Right.

01:14:21.235 –> 01:14:30.875
Oli Sykes: So like as it goes on, there’s just like little glitches and little things that so many sounds and little fuckups and by the end it’s just a mess.

01:15:27.682 –> 01:15:29.362
John Kennedy: So that is Dig It.

01:15:29.362 –> 01:15:30.262
John Kennedy: Where do we start with this?

01:15:30.262 –> 01:15:32.422
John Kennedy: I mean, this is a whole different vibe really, isn’t it?

01:15:33.302 –> 01:15:35.582
Dan Lancaster: Demos will be a good place.

01:15:35.582 –> 01:15:47.122
Oli Sykes: This was the only song that we worked on with Dan from creation, so this was fully created from scratch, whereas everything else, we’d already had the songs.

01:15:47.222 –> 01:15:48.342
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

01:15:48.342 –> 01:15:50.802
Oli Sykes: We were more or less top lining them.

01:15:50.802 –> 01:15:52.422
Oli Sykes: I’m right in saying that, aren’t I?

01:15:52.422 –> 01:15:54.122
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, you wanted one more song, essentially.

01:15:54.602 –> 01:15:55.202
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:15:55.202 –> 01:15:56.482
Dan Lancaster: So I obliged.

01:15:57.702 –> 01:16:05.162
Oli Sykes: Yeah, the first brief were Clams Casino, Bon Iver meets Stoner Rock Band.

01:16:05.162 –> 01:16:07.702
Oli Sykes: It was cool, but it was very sleepy, weren’t it?

01:16:16.162 –> 01:16:16.622
Dan Lancaster: Sorry, that’s it.

01:16:29.862 –> 01:16:36.102
Dan Lancaster: We basically saw some magic in there, and we’re like, we need to take it to the top shelf, you know?

01:16:36.102 –> 01:16:36.282
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:16:36.493 –> 01:16:37.253
Dan Lancaster: That was the problem.

01:16:37.253 –> 01:16:39.193
Dan Lancaster: It was like maybe too vibey.

01:16:39.193 –> 01:16:43.333
Dan Lancaster: And that’s super vibey, the song, anyway, but it’s like really well written.

01:16:43.333 –> 01:16:46.633
Dan Lancaster: You know, lyrically, it’s amazing and stuff.

01:16:47.893 –> 01:16:49.393
Dan Lancaster: This is funny, though.

01:16:50.433 –> 01:16:52.513
Dan Lancaster: That was different, trying to have a different beat you can hear.

01:17:06.371 –> 01:17:07.731
Lee Malia: Sounds a lot cheesier, doesn’t it?

01:17:07.731 –> 01:17:08.751
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:17:08.751 –> 01:17:10.791
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:17:10.791 –> 01:17:14.331
Oli Sykes: I think we ended up just getting hung up on chords, didn’t we?

01:17:14.331 –> 01:17:17.191
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, we were stuck with these chords.

01:17:17.191 –> 01:17:18.751
Oli Sykes: Felt like it couldn’t deliver.

01:17:18.751 –> 01:17:20.831
Dan Lancaster: They tried to be cool here.

01:17:27.351 –> 01:17:27.911
Dan Lancaster: There’s some melodies.

01:17:27.911 –> 01:17:30.491
Dan Lancaster: Some of the melodies are starting to come in here, yeah.

01:17:30.491 –> 01:17:33.151
Dan Lancaster: There’s honestly like 12 versions.

01:17:33.151 –> 01:17:33.391
Oli Sykes: Right.

01:17:39.916 –> 01:17:40.876
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, same.

01:17:40.876 –> 01:17:50.116
Oli Sykes: We were saying, like, we were writing all the week at MINE in Brazil, and one of those melodies actually we used for a new song that we’re working on.

01:17:50.116 –> 01:17:50.576
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:17:50.576 –> 01:18:04.356
Oli Sykes: And that is one nice thing sometimes about, even though you do throw so much away, a lot of it does find its place later on in, like you come back to a melody that got scrapped, but it’s stuck in your head, do you know what I mean, a stage.

01:18:04.356 –> 01:18:07.876
Dan Lancaster: Oh, we can play, what’s it called, Bad Susans.

01:18:07.876 –> 01:18:08.396
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:18:08.396 –> 01:18:12.596
Dan Lancaster: Because that was a whole song, like, demo, and then it’s got the…

01:18:12.596 –> 01:18:13.496
Dan Lancaster: Oh, yeah, the breakdown.

01:18:13.496 –> 01:18:14.676
Dan Lancaster: That’s actually from that.

01:18:14.676 –> 01:18:18.716
Dan Lancaster: So yeah, that was like, oh, that sounds great in the bin.

01:18:18.716 –> 01:18:22.256
Dan Lancaster: And then we chop the end off, and it’s ended up the end of the album.

01:18:22.316 –> 01:18:22.616
John Kennedy: Right.

01:18:22.616 –> 01:18:23.276
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:18:23.276 –> 01:18:24.296
Dan Lancaster: So, it’s not all bad.

01:18:24.716 –> 01:18:25.856
John Kennedy: Should we hear that now?

01:18:25.856 –> 01:18:26.176
Dan Lancaster: Should we?

01:18:38.357 –> 01:18:39.757
Dan Lancaster: So we made up a whole demo, and then…

01:18:44.517 –> 01:18:44.837
Dan Lancaster: Oh yeah.

01:18:50.757 –> 01:18:55.237
Dan Lancaster: He’s got some other demo-y bits, and then that is here.

01:19:00.297 –> 01:19:02.117
Dan Lancaster: In a new key, new tempo, yeah.

01:19:02.177 –> 01:19:05.257
Dan Lancaster: So let’s raise that point.

01:19:05.257 –> 01:19:17.217
Dan Lancaster: This is once we did get into the song more as it is now instrumentally, it was weird because we did it in the kitchen on the laptop speakers rolling super dirty.

01:19:17.217 –> 01:19:17.917
Oli Sykes: But whose kitchen?

01:19:17.917 –> 01:19:18.417
Oli Sykes: Yours?

01:19:18.417 –> 01:19:22.317
Dan Lancaster: It was in yours in Sheffield, and we just spent a whole day.

01:19:22.637 –> 01:19:32.017
Dan Lancaster: Oh yeah, it’s all a bit of a blur, but we were playing James Blake on the way back from the studio to Oli’s kitchen, essentially going, oh, maybe it should be like this.

01:19:32.017 –> 01:19:38.557
Dan Lancaster: And that was kind of pointed us to these verse moments in the production.

01:19:38.617 –> 01:19:40.017
Dan Lancaster: All of this stuff.

01:19:44.637 –> 01:19:46.357
Dan Lancaster: I made this in the kitchen.

01:19:49.657 –> 01:19:50.997
Dan Lancaster: Really basic.

01:19:52.797 –> 01:19:53.997
Dan Lancaster: Acoustic guitar.

01:19:54.257 –> 01:19:56.277
Oli Sykes: A lot of little sounds that come back and forth.

01:19:56.877 –> 01:20:04.277
Oli Sykes: Like weirdly, like the synth are pegiated, like in the start, it turns down at one point and then just comes back.

01:20:04.277 –> 01:20:05.237
Oli Sykes: It’s super random.

01:20:06.157 –> 01:20:09.597
Dan Lancaster: One of the, one of the lyrics is not a lyric as well.

01:20:09.597 –> 01:20:10.137
Dan Lancaster: It just goes.

01:20:17.057 –> 01:20:17.857
Dan Lancaster: Do you know where it goes?

01:20:18.277 –> 01:20:20.637
Oli Sykes: Yeah, cause I didn’t like the way it sounded.

01:20:20.637 –> 01:20:22.477
Oli Sykes: So like.

01:20:22.477 –> 01:20:23.537
Dan Lancaster: What is that?

01:20:23.537 –> 01:20:26.677
Oli Sykes: Well, the whole thing is like progressively glitting as well.

01:20:26.677 –> 01:20:32.457
Oli Sykes: But like it was a good way to like, if I didn’t quite like a certain sound of my voice, I was like, I’ll glitch that out.

01:20:32.457 –> 01:20:32.997
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, yeah.

01:20:33.077 –> 01:20:34.557
Dan Lancaster: It was funny.

01:20:34.557 –> 01:20:38.057
Oli Sykes: But it was fun because it was like, cause it was the first one we did together.

01:20:38.057 –> 01:20:40.897
Oli Sykes: And Dan’s actually really good at like doing the random stuff.

01:20:40.897 –> 01:20:43.677
Oli Sykes: Like not a lot of producers can’t get their head around it.

01:20:43.677 –> 01:20:44.577
Oli Sykes: Like, what do you mean?

01:20:44.577 –> 01:20:47.017
Oli Sykes: Like, why are you trying to make it sound bad?

01:20:47.017 –> 01:20:48.477
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:20:48.477 –> 01:20:49.557
Oli Sykes: So he’s really good at it.

01:20:49.557 –> 01:20:50.357
Oli Sykes: So it was really fun.

01:20:50.357 –> 01:20:51.537
Lee Malia: Good at making it sound bad.

01:20:51.537 –> 01:20:52.617
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:20:52.617 –> 01:20:54.317
Dan Lancaster: Bad producer.

01:20:54.317 –> 01:20:55.537
Dan Lancaster: Thank you.

01:20:56.897 –> 01:21:00.517
Oli Sykes: It was just fun to go, let’s take all that shit to the max, because we’ve done it a lot in the record.

01:21:00.577 –> 01:21:04.117
Oli Sykes: But I think Dig It is definitely, like, the most.

01:21:04.117 –> 01:21:05.217
Lee Malia: Especially the end of it.

01:21:05.217 –> 01:21:06.277
Lee Malia: Yeah.

01:21:06.277 –> 01:21:06.717
Dan Lancaster: It’s okay.

01:21:06.717 –> 01:21:07.757
Dan Lancaster: I’ll take as well the production.

01:21:07.757 –> 01:21:13.777
Dan Lancaster: I mean, these guys were doing the statues video, and then you came around my place and played the…

01:21:15.017 –> 01:21:16.837
Dan Lancaster: You know, sort of ten minutes and…

01:21:16.837 –> 01:21:20.537
Oli Sykes: Oh, we were recording the vocals while we were doing the statues video, weren’t we?

01:21:20.557 –> 01:21:20.857
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:21:20.857 –> 01:21:23.217
Oli Sykes: I’d do a take downstairs on the video thing.

01:21:23.217 –> 01:21:25.377
Oli Sykes: You’d come upstairs, record a bit.

01:21:25.377 –> 01:21:26.617
Dan Lancaster: Full make-up, everything.

01:21:26.617 –> 01:21:27.117
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:21:27.117 –> 01:21:27.497
John Kennedy: Wow.

01:21:27.497 –> 01:21:28.417
Dan Lancaster: And we’re like, oh, he’s back again.

01:21:28.417 –> 01:21:29.257
John Kennedy: Cyborg.

01:21:29.257 –> 01:21:29.577
Oli Sykes: Cyborg.

01:21:29.577 –> 01:21:31.837
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, and I dressed up as cyborgs.

01:21:31.837 –> 01:21:36.497
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, very chaotic, very near the end of, you know, wrapping up everything.

01:21:36.497 –> 01:21:41.237
Dan Lancaster: So it was kind of two weeks on and off of all these ideas.

01:21:41.237 –> 01:21:46.617
Dan Lancaster: And yeah, once it came together, dare I say it, it came together quite quick.

01:21:46.617 –> 01:21:47.357
Oli Sykes: Apart from all the…

01:21:47.357 –> 01:21:48.077
Oli Sykes: Yeah, once it got…

01:21:48.077 –> 01:21:48.897
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:21:48.897 –> 01:21:51.637
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, I stayed up till five in the morning.

01:21:51.637 –> 01:21:55.297
Dan Lancaster: The day we kind of gave it to Zach, because I was on Zoom with Zach.

01:21:55.917 –> 01:21:56.657
Dan Lancaster: Just, you know…

01:21:56.837 –> 01:21:58.217
Oli Sykes: It was so stressful, actually.

01:21:58.217 –> 01:21:58.357
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:21:58.357 –> 01:21:59.657
Oli Sykes: Because I was…

01:21:59.657 –> 01:22:08.537
Oli Sykes: The whole album’s got like hidden messages throughout it, like hidden into the music that you can only see with like a spectrograph, spectrogram, spectrograph.

01:22:08.977 –> 01:22:13.537
Oli Sykes: And which I was trying to find someone to do this for me, but everyone were letting me down.

01:22:13.537 –> 01:22:20.217
Oli Sykes: So I ended up finding this program that warned you when you opened it that it were going to destroy your computer, some like thing.

01:22:20.217 –> 01:22:24.097
Oli Sykes: And I was learning how to make these spectrographs myself and trying to put it into the music.

01:22:25.317 –> 01:22:25.817
Oli Sykes: Do you want to show them?

01:22:25.817 –> 01:22:27.257
Oli Sykes: It’s right at the end of the song.

01:22:27.417 –> 01:22:33.777
Oli Sykes: There’s a QR code hidden in the music that you have to put it through this spectrograph and then you can find it.

01:22:33.777 –> 01:22:38.417
Oli Sykes: And that took you to the little robots safe mode.

01:22:38.417 –> 01:22:42.717
Oli Sykes: And that’s got like a whole treasure trove of basically explaining what the story is.

01:22:42.717 –> 01:22:43.937
Oli Sykes: And it’s still ongoing.

01:22:43.937 –> 01:22:47.557
Oli Sykes: Scary place, scary future, scary thing.

01:22:47.617 –> 01:22:49.077
Oli Sykes: I think it was that.

01:22:52.237 –> 01:22:53.257
Dan Lancaster: Oh, it’s in the vocals.

01:22:53.257 –> 01:22:56.037
Oli Sykes: Scary place, scary future, scary…

01:22:56.037 –> 01:22:57.097
Oli Sykes: Should have shown you actually as well.

01:22:57.457 –> 01:23:00.117
Oli Sykes: On statues is something that no one’s even figured out yet.

01:23:00.117 –> 01:23:01.797
Dan Lancaster: Oh, really?

01:23:01.797 –> 01:23:02.377
Dan Lancaster: They must have done.

01:23:02.377 –> 01:23:03.297
Dan Lancaster: Even I figured that out.

01:23:03.297 –> 01:23:12.337
Oli Sykes: We tried to basically wanted this record to be a concept record without shoving it down your throat and having to make people listen, sit through like two minute monologues and stuff.

01:23:12.337 –> 01:23:14.757
Oli Sykes: So a lot of the stuff is hidden in there.

01:23:14.937 –> 01:23:20.897
Oli Sykes: So at the end of statues, I don’t think anyone’s figured this out yet, but it’s in mono.

01:23:20.897 –> 01:23:27.897
Oli Sykes: And if you put it into mono, basically the music goes away and the vocal comes through that you can’t hear otherwise.

01:23:27.897 –> 01:23:29.037
Dan Lancaster: So it’s like flip the phase.

01:23:29.037 –> 01:23:29.877
Dan Lancaster: Right.

01:23:29.877 –> 01:23:31.397
John Kennedy: And how would you do that now?

01:23:31.397 –> 01:23:32.277
Oli Sykes: You can do it on your laptop.

01:23:32.277 –> 01:23:34.797
Oli Sykes: You can get accessibility mode on the thing.

01:23:34.797 –> 01:23:37.457
Oli Sykes: And there’s loads of stuff like Batman stuff and all that.

01:23:38.217 –> 01:23:40.837
John Kennedy: And in terms of dig at that message there, how do you get that?

01:23:40.897 –> 01:23:43.117
John Kennedy: So it’s what the spectrograph visualises.

01:23:43.117 –> 01:23:44.237
Oli Sykes: It visualises the music.

01:23:44.237 –> 01:23:45.417
John Kennedy: The sound.

01:23:45.417 –> 01:23:47.297
Oli Sykes: Obviously, you can’t control what the sound is.

01:23:47.297 –> 01:23:48.577
Oli Sykes: It’s usually quite horrible.

01:23:48.577 –> 01:23:54.517
Oli Sykes: So it was like finding a point where they could go in without ruining your ear.

01:23:55.077 –> 01:23:56.217
Dan Lancaster: Staying in the song forever.

01:23:56.217 –> 01:23:59.057
Oli Sykes: The QR code was a really difficult one because it’s never been done before.

01:23:59.057 –> 01:24:03.917
Oli Sykes: And wasn’t sure if the QR code was going to work.

01:24:03.917 –> 01:24:04.357
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:24:04.417 –> 01:24:07.297
Oli Sykes: And we got there in end, didn’t we, with it?

01:24:07.297 –> 01:24:08.097
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:24:08.097 –> 01:24:12.337
Dan Lancaster: I think you came up with the realization that it could work during the last two weeks.

01:24:12.337 –> 01:24:15.497
Dan Lancaster: So it was a lot of sort of scatty behavior from you on the laptop.

01:24:15.497 –> 01:24:17.277
Dan Lancaster: Because you’re trying to put this…

01:24:17.277 –> 01:24:19.917
Oli Sykes: I’ll get in my creative director, I’ll download this.

01:24:19.917 –> 01:24:23.917
Oli Sykes: And he went, it says, do not open this because it will destroy…

01:24:23.917 –> 01:24:25.177
Oli Sykes: I’ve never seen that message before either.

01:24:25.177 –> 01:24:29.017
Oli Sykes: It sounds like a lie, but it said to me, this will break your computer.

01:24:29.057 –> 01:24:30.657
Oli Sykes: And I’m like, please, it doesn’t break it.

01:24:30.977 –> 01:24:32.297
Oli Sykes: You just might lose your sound for a bit.

01:24:32.377 –> 01:24:36.097
Oli Sykes: Because I would just get into a point where I can’t do this anymore.

01:24:36.097 –> 01:24:39.577
Dan Lancaster: It’s safe to say I couldn’t afford to break this way into it.

01:24:39.577 –> 01:24:44.497
Oli Sykes: And it was like, if we don’t, it’s not going to work if we don’t go the whole way.

01:24:44.497 –> 01:24:46.657
Oli Sykes: Yeah, you’ve got to see it through.

01:24:46.657 –> 01:24:48.257
Oli Sykes: The website and the idea were already made.

01:24:48.657 –> 01:24:50.717
John Kennedy: God, that sounds…

01:24:50.997 –> 01:24:53.537
Oli Sykes: It was horrible actually, it was hectic.

01:24:53.617 –> 01:24:55.257
Dan Lancaster: So, what would you like to hear, sir?

01:24:55.257 –> 01:24:58.177
John Kennedy: Yeah, what more do we need to hear from Diggett?

01:24:59.277 –> 01:25:00.717
Dan Lancaster: I was going to say the end, like with the glitches.

01:25:00.817 –> 01:25:03.297
Lee Malia: Oh, glitches, because it’s chaotic, you know?

01:25:03.297 –> 01:25:05.457
Dan Lancaster: Out of context, it’s kind of bad, but yeah.

01:25:29.151 –> 01:25:31.811
Dan Lancaster: What happens progressively for the song goes crazy at the end.

01:25:32.031 –> 01:25:34.551
John Kennedy: So you’re trying to perfect this song.

01:25:34.551 –> 01:25:37.491
John Kennedy: You’re also trying to destroy it in a way.

01:25:37.491 –> 01:25:38.591
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:25:38.591 –> 01:25:45.851
Oli Sykes: Because at that point, have we made the decision that it will come out when it will come out, or not?

01:25:45.851 –> 01:25:47.111
Lee Malia: I don’t think so.

01:25:47.111 –> 01:25:48.391
Lee Malia: I thought, oh, no, you’re moving.

01:25:48.391 –> 01:26:00.071
Oli Sykes: Oh, no, it was because it was basically like, if we didn’t finish it by this day, it meant it weren’t going to be able to be finished for like, another, were I going back to Brazil or on tour or something?

01:26:00.071 –> 01:26:01.691
Oli Sykes: I can’t remember.

01:26:01.691 –> 01:26:02.791
Oli Sykes: I think I was going on a holiday, actually.

01:26:02.791 –> 01:26:04.031
Lee Malia: You went to New Zealand or something?

01:26:04.031 –> 01:26:06.891
Oli Sykes: New Zealand, yeah, because I needed a holiday.

01:26:06.891 –> 01:26:11.551
Oli Sykes: So if we didn’t do it then, yeah, I’m going to New Zealand, straight into an Australian tour, straight into Vegas.

01:26:11.551 –> 01:26:18.731
Oli Sykes: So it would have been a while and it would have meant like, the date that we already said we were going to deliver it by would have been eradicated.

01:26:18.731 –> 01:26:20.191
Oli Sykes: So we had to do it.

01:26:20.811 –> 01:26:24.971
Oli Sykes: And for my own like, for my own sanity, I just needed to have it finished.

01:26:24.971 –> 01:26:26.091
Oli Sykes: I could not go on this.

01:26:26.091 –> 01:26:27.631
Oli Sykes: It will not be a holiday.

01:26:27.631 –> 01:26:29.331
Oli Sykes: I just can’t relax until this record is done.

01:26:29.331 –> 01:26:35.171
Oli Sykes: So it was just as all like pulling it in together and just going for it at the end, weren’t it?

01:26:35.171 –> 01:26:37.651
Oli Sykes: And we were mixing so many things.

01:26:37.651 –> 01:26:38.331
Oli Sykes: Zach, we’re coming back.

01:26:38.331 –> 01:26:39.971
Oli Sykes: We all mix for different songs.

01:26:41.351 –> 01:26:43.431
Oli Sykes: And at that point as well, you hate everything.

01:26:43.491 –> 01:26:45.191
Oli Sykes: You like this dog shit.

01:26:45.191 –> 01:26:46.871
Oli Sykes: And yeah, so it was just hectic.

01:27:04.481 –> 01:27:06.881
Dan Lancaster: But at the core of it, it’s kind of simple.

01:27:06.881 –> 01:27:07.621
Oli Sykes: Yeah, yeah.

01:27:07.621 –> 01:27:10.901
Dan Lancaster: The chords don’t really change.

01:27:10.901 –> 01:27:12.301
Oli Sykes: Just a lot of bullshit in there, isn’t it?

01:27:12.821 –> 01:27:16.901
Oli Sykes: The bit before the drops, it’s like the, oh, love that bit.

01:27:16.901 –> 01:27:20.321
Dan Lancaster: That’s a Jacob Collier choir.

01:27:20.321 –> 01:27:25.061
Dan Lancaster: You press one of the keys near the top, like out of the range, and it’s got some like shouts.

01:27:25.061 –> 01:27:28.241
Dan Lancaster: Plus effects, yeah, so it is out, but I’ll play that.

01:27:28.301 –> 01:27:40.741
Oli Sykes: That drop took us a while to get like, we wanted it to be like noisy and abrasive, but like still feel like it hits you in the gut when it drops, you know, without it being too clean and too basic.

01:27:43.361 –> 01:27:44.641
Oli Sykes: There’s a little saxophone as well.

01:27:44.641 –> 01:27:44.821
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:28:02.227 –> 01:28:03.427
Dan Lancaster: This is the thing, though, somewhere.

01:28:06.867 –> 01:28:09.907
Dan Lancaster: I think they say like, maybe or something on the keys.

01:28:09.907 –> 01:28:12.607
Dan Lancaster: Someone would have to confirm that, but yeah, it’s like a weird maybe.

01:28:12.607 –> 01:28:15.207
Oli Sykes: Take the guitars and drums out and just have the…

01:28:15.207 –> 01:28:16.487
Oli Sykes: Because the lead’s sick as well, isn’t it?

01:28:16.487 –> 01:28:16.867
Oli Sykes: Da-da-da-da-da.

01:28:30.622 –> 01:28:33.202
Oli Sykes: This whole song is pretty much side-changed.

01:28:33.202 –> 01:28:33.682
Oli Sykes: Probably, yeah.

01:28:40.662 –> 01:28:46.682
Oli Sykes: And this vocal actually just goes down in the mix because of the lyrics, so I don’t want to lose myself again.

01:28:46.682 –> 01:28:55.282
Oli Sykes: We’ve had so many people saying records are terribly mixed and stuff, but it’s kind of been badly done like that on purpose.

01:28:55.282 –> 01:28:59.682
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, because the rock pop guy in you would want that loud, right, that bit.

01:28:59.682 –> 01:29:00.602
Dan Lancaster: It’s like a climactic.

01:29:00.602 –> 01:29:03.862
Oli Sykes: But it kind of consciously goes, I don’t want to lose.

01:29:03.862 –> 01:29:07.802
John Kennedy: Because you’re articulating the story at the same time.

01:29:07.802 –> 01:29:09.442
John Kennedy: So yeah, amazing.

01:29:09.602 –> 01:29:17.782
Lee Malia: The sidechaining thing as well we’ve done, because like the humanizing thing with Meditwork Live as well, where we sidechained guitars and stuff on other songs.

01:29:17.782 –> 01:29:20.562
Lee Malia: So it does the same like pumping thing and that.

01:29:20.562 –> 01:29:23.282
Lee Malia: But I don’t know if we’ve ever seen anyone else do it.

01:29:23.282 –> 01:29:26.002
Lee Malia: But it works quite cool, you know, if you get it right.

01:29:26.002 –> 01:29:28.362
Lee Malia: But which is what we’ll be doing on this, isn’t it?

01:29:28.402 –> 01:29:36.222
Oli Sykes: But yeah, I think it just like strengthens the groove a lot of the time when it’s like everything’s pulling up and down together.

01:29:46.662 –> 01:29:47.902
John Kennedy: Press G.

01:29:49.722 –> 01:29:50.962
Oli Sykes: Does that work?

01:29:52.562 –> 01:29:54.602
Dan Lancaster: Oh, I’ve muted them, that’s why.

01:29:56.662 –> 01:29:57.362
Dan Lancaster: This is not a drill.

01:29:57.762 –> 01:29:58.962
Oli Sykes: Zach’s saying this is not a drill.

01:29:58.962 –> 01:30:01.662
Oli Sykes: No, it’s actually Zach’s girlfriend.

01:30:01.662 –> 01:30:01.962
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:30:02.002 –> 01:30:02.622
Oli Sykes: You can’t hear that.

01:30:02.622 –> 01:30:03.562
Oli Sykes: This is not a drill.

01:30:03.562 –> 01:30:05.582
Dan Lancaster: This is not a drill.

01:30:05.582 –> 01:30:06.782
Dan Lancaster: That’s lazy, yeah.

01:30:06.862 –> 01:30:07.562
John Kennedy: This is not a drill.

01:30:40.366 –> 01:30:53.946
John Kennedy: Amazing, amazing, and you keep people guessing, because if you listen to the album, there’s this period of silence, and then the mate, M8 voice comes back in, just in case, if you’re listening, you haven’t listened to the whole album yet, make sure you hear that part.

01:30:53.946 –> 01:30:55.966
John Kennedy: And that was incredible.

01:30:55.966 –> 01:31:03.706
John Kennedy: We should probably let you go, but we’ve got some more questions for you, some of which have come via Patreon from our patrons.

01:31:03.706 –> 01:31:12.086
John Kennedy: And so a quick hello to Alpha, who says, I heard that Bring Me The Horizon worked with the Parallax Orchestra for some songs, like I Don’t Know What To Say.

01:31:12.086 –> 01:31:17.746
John Kennedy: Could you tell us about the process of writing and recording the string parts with them or with a real orchestra in general?

01:31:17.746 –> 01:31:21.566
John Kennedy: And how did you manage to blend it with the other heavy instruments?

01:31:21.566 –> 01:31:24.446
John Kennedy: So that’s quite a detailed question.

01:31:25.666 –> 01:31:30.846
Oli Sykes: I mean, I think we took a lot of inspiration from S&M, Metallica didn’t we?

01:31:30.846 –> 01:31:39.826
Oli Sykes: And I mean, I’ll be honest, like that’s not something that I had a massive part in, in terms of like recording them.

01:31:39.826 –> 01:31:41.106
Oli Sykes: They’re really good at what they do.

01:31:41.106 –> 01:31:44.706
Oli Sykes: So they didn’t need that much instruction.

01:31:44.706 –> 01:31:52.166
Oli Sykes: It was just finding like, we just didn’t want them to, the only brief that I had is like, don’t just do, don’t just mimic what’s there.

01:31:52.166 –> 01:31:58.526
Oli Sykes: Like add your own thing and, you know, maybe a few like stylistic things like this one could sound more like James Bond or something.

01:31:58.646 –> 01:32:01.566
Oli Sykes: And this bit like, they’re super sick at what they do.

01:32:01.566 –> 01:32:03.426
Oli Sykes: So it was, it was easier.

01:32:03.426 –> 01:32:05.886
Oli Sykes: It was a really nerve wracking thing.

01:32:05.886 –> 01:32:08.206
Oli Sykes: I think it was the first time I felt properly.

01:32:08.206 –> 01:32:09.166
Lee Malia: You mean about Albert Hall?

01:32:09.166 –> 01:32:10.226
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:32:10.226 –> 01:32:11.506
Oli Sykes: Properly nervous on stage.

01:32:11.506 –> 01:32:16.386
Oli Sykes: Cause it just felt like there’s real musicians on stage.

01:32:16.386 –> 01:32:17.846
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

01:32:17.846 –> 01:32:25.286
Oli Sykes: I’ve got a singing tune and yeah, it was, but it was proper that Albert Hall was a proper, I don’t know, one foot blocks.

01:32:25.286 –> 01:32:26.966
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:32:26.966 –> 01:32:36.526
John Kennedy: Walk Easy has gone in touch and asks, in terms of a creative process, when you have one small idea, what steps do you take to expand that idea into a full song?

01:32:36.526 –> 01:32:38.206
John Kennedy: I’m currently really stuck with this at the moment.

01:32:38.206 –> 01:32:42.186
John Kennedy: I have a cool idea, open my door and never know what to do next.

01:32:42.186 –> 01:32:49.466
John Kennedy: So any hints and suggestions as to how you take things further, how you develop something?

01:32:49.466 –> 01:32:53.686
Oli Sykes: I think it’s about visualizing it, not just having the idea.

01:32:53.686 –> 01:32:56.466
Oli Sykes: Like it’s super easy to go, oh, this would be cool.

01:32:56.466 –> 01:32:59.586
Oli Sykes: But it’s like, I think the next step of it is like, how would it be cool though?

01:32:59.586 –> 01:33:00.146
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

01:33:00.146 –> 01:33:04.746
Oli Sykes: I think that’s one massive thing I’ve learned, especially like even like making music videos and all that stuff.

01:33:04.746 –> 01:33:12.626
Oli Sykes: It’s like, you can have this really cool concept, but if you can’t visualize how the actor does it and how the effects are going to actually work and everything, it’s the same with music.

01:33:12.626 –> 01:33:16.386
Oli Sykes: It’s like, you can say, I’ll be sick to mix this with this.

01:33:16.386 –> 01:33:19.146
Oli Sykes: And it’s like, yeah, would it though?

01:33:19.146 –> 01:33:20.886
Oli Sykes: Is it like an actual tangible thing?

01:33:20.986 –> 01:33:22.626
Oli Sykes: Is it like, can you hear it?

01:33:22.626 –> 01:33:22.946
Oli Sykes: Can you?

01:33:22.946 –> 01:33:24.306
Oli Sykes: Is it something you’ve?

01:33:24.306 –> 01:33:27.546
Oli Sykes: Or is it just like, oh, it would be so sick if this existed?

01:33:27.546 –> 01:33:31.346
Oli Sykes: And I think that’s the hardest point of getting your idea to like, actually become something.

01:33:31.346 –> 01:33:39.786
Oli Sykes: It’s like, you know, because you’re working with other people and you’re trying to, you know, you might get away with just going, I’ve got this idea where we mix that and that, and that person tries that.

01:33:39.786 –> 01:33:44.666
Oli Sykes: But it’s like, a lot of time, your idea only makes sense to you.

01:33:44.666 –> 01:33:50.026
Oli Sykes: And if you can’t conceptualize that idea any further, it is a bit hard to get it out the door.

01:33:50.686 –> 01:33:56.006
Oli Sykes: And sometimes you have to fight really hard for your idea because everyone else is like…

01:33:56.006 –> 01:34:00.566
Lee Malia: I think the good advice is include work with other people.

01:34:00.586 –> 01:34:07.026
Lee Malia: Because if you’ve just got that one thing, then someone else can hear it and see where they could take it or whatever.

01:34:07.266 –> 01:34:09.186
Lee Malia: Or collaborating or whatever.

01:34:09.186 –> 01:34:15.966
Oli Sykes: Or take it in a way that you don’t, take it in a way that you weren’t thinking, but is even better or just different or whatever.

01:34:15.966 –> 01:34:17.946
Oli Sykes: It’s like, you’ve got to start somewhere.

01:34:20.386 –> 01:34:25.886
Oli Sykes: Even if it’s not exactly what you want, you’ve got to find that baseline, what you’re capable of.

01:34:25.886 –> 01:34:29.366
Oli Sykes: Our whole career has been us just doing what we’re capable of.

01:34:29.366 –> 01:34:30.346
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

01:34:30.346 –> 01:34:37.346
Oli Sykes: The band we are now is the band we’ve always wanted to be, but we weren’t that band 15 years ago because we weren’t physically capable of it.

01:34:37.346 –> 01:34:38.506
Oli Sykes: I couldn’t sing.

01:34:38.506 –> 01:34:40.346
Oli Sykes: We didn’t have the songwriting skills.

01:34:42.366 –> 01:34:46.146
Oli Sykes: A lot of the stuff we write, we’re not even capable of playing.

01:34:46.146 –> 01:34:46.926
Oli Sykes: We’re like, we’ll do it.

01:34:46.926 –> 01:34:47.406
Oli Sykes: We’ll make it.

01:34:47.406 –> 01:34:49.146
Oli Sykes: We’ll find a way, especially with me with singing.

01:34:49.146 –> 01:34:51.086
Oli Sykes: I’m like, just tune it, pitch it.

01:34:51.086 –> 01:34:54.466
Oli Sykes: We’ll get the performance good on record and then I’ll work my ass off singing it.

01:34:54.466 –> 01:34:59.266
Oli Sykes: But it’s just, you’ve got to start on a platform that you’re capable of and build on that.

01:34:59.266 –> 01:35:00.046
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

01:35:00.046 –> 01:35:04.966
Oli Sykes: You might want to sound like Bjork, but you’re only as good as, you’re not there yet.

01:35:04.966 –> 01:35:08.666
Oli Sykes: It’s like you can’t be that until you do all those stepping stones.

01:35:08.706 –> 01:35:09.206
Oli Sykes: You know what I mean?

01:35:09.206 –> 01:35:12.166
Oli Sykes: So don’t beat yourself up.

01:35:12.166 –> 01:35:20.686
Oli Sykes: Aim high, but also realise that you’ve got to, you’re going to have to hit what you’re capable of first and don’t let that stop you from trying to make it happen.

01:35:20.686 –> 01:35:21.286
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

01:35:21.286 –> 01:35:22.206
Oli Sykes: Don’t stop that.

01:35:22.206 –> 01:35:28.126
Oli Sykes: Like an idea that you’ve got, start at that place that you’re capable of.

01:35:28.126 –> 01:35:29.166
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:35:29.166 –> 01:35:41.586
John Kennedy: Something we ask everybody who comes on Tape Notes is if they have a favourite piece of tech or equipment, or maybe if with relation to this particular album, POST HUMAN, NeX GEN, is there something that it couldn’t have been made without?

01:35:41.586 –> 01:35:42.746
Oli Sykes: Altaboy.

01:35:42.746 –> 01:35:43.866
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, Autotune.

01:35:44.246 –> 01:35:46.006
Oli Sykes: Yeah, Autotune.

01:35:46.006 –> 01:35:47.026
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:35:47.026 –> 01:35:50.146
Oli Sykes: Altaboy is, I mean, I must say that for every song we write.

01:35:50.146 –> 01:35:51.586
Oli Sykes: Can you put Altaboy on it?

01:35:51.586 –> 01:35:55.106
Lee Malia: It makes stuff sound interesting, even if it’s just you hum in some of it.

01:35:55.106 –> 01:35:56.646
Dan Lancaster: Yeah, I want to add to that one though.

01:35:56.646 –> 01:36:00.746
Dan Lancaster: Altaboy is annoying in the sense it can’t do polyphonic sound source.

01:36:00.746 –> 01:36:01.806
Dan Lancaster: So if you want to make something cool.

01:36:01.806 –> 01:36:02.986
Oli Sykes: I hate that about it.

01:36:02.986 –> 01:36:10.306
Dan Lancaster: Well, if it’s got a reverb one and you pull the Altaboy stuff, it starts to glitch out in a way that might be cool, but most of the time isn’t.

01:36:10.306 –> 01:36:13.746
Dan Lancaster: Like it would just ruin the sound or make it change to a different note or whatever.

01:36:13.746 –> 01:36:19.986
Dan Lancaster: So Elastique Pitch V2 is like an Altaboy sort of.

01:36:19.986 –> 01:36:23.226
Oli Sykes: Elastique I don’t like though because it actually makes it…

01:36:23.226 –> 01:36:31.126
Oli Sykes: Like one thing that we’re doing on this record a lot is like, we’re recording one key, but I want it to be like two keys higher.

01:36:31.126 –> 01:36:35.546
Oli Sykes: But I want it to sound like someone’s made it two keys higher badly.

01:36:36.226 –> 01:36:38.546
Oli Sykes: So you can tell my voice sounds like a chipmunk and stuff.

01:36:38.546 –> 01:36:50.446
Oli Sykes: I don’t know why, but if you listen to a song like Bullet With My Name on it, it’s like clearly like, if you actually put it down like a full two steps, it will sound like me.

01:36:50.446 –> 01:36:55.066
Oli Sykes: But this Elastique thing makes it, you cannot tell that it’s too good.

01:36:55.066 –> 01:36:56.566
Oli Sykes: It’s too good.

01:36:56.566 –> 01:37:01.326
Dan Lancaster: So yeah, he’s talking about changing the pitch and it being really accurate and good at doing that.

01:37:01.326 –> 01:37:06.826
Dan Lancaster: But I’m talking about using the formant on it for like an entire group of something.

01:37:06.826 –> 01:37:08.506
Dan Lancaster: Right.

01:37:08.506 –> 01:37:09.726
John Kennedy: You’re going to illustrate this.

01:37:09.726 –> 01:37:10.286
Dan Lancaster: Why not?

01:37:10.286 –> 01:37:11.346
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:37:11.346 –> 01:37:13.406
Dan Lancaster: So yeah.

01:37:15.286 –> 01:37:17.366
Dan Lancaster: Obviously changing the pitch.

01:37:17.366 –> 01:37:19.966
Dan Lancaster: That’s an octave there.

01:37:19.966 –> 01:37:22.866
Dan Lancaster: So yeah, this can change the pitch of something really cleanly.

01:37:22.866 –> 01:37:24.626
Dan Lancaster: So let’s go down like.

01:37:26.066 –> 01:37:29.866
Dan Lancaster: But also you can rock the timbre.

01:37:35.026 –> 01:37:37.526
Dan Lancaster: Of entire groups and it’s just really useful basically.

01:37:37.526 –> 01:37:39.066
Dan Lancaster: So that’s my new alt boy.

01:37:39.066 –> 01:37:39.366
John Kennedy: Right.

01:37:39.366 –> 01:37:39.546
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:37:39.546 –> 01:37:40.566
Dan Lancaster: For that reason.

01:37:40.566 –> 01:37:40.826
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:37:40.826 –> 01:37:46.366
Dan Lancaster: You could take like a stack of guitars and make it sound kind of hyper pot just by swinging this to the right.

01:37:48.186 –> 01:37:50.726
Dan Lancaster: It’s the same key.

01:37:50.726 –> 01:37:52.166
Dan Lancaster: It’s just awesome.

01:37:52.166 –> 01:37:52.686
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:37:52.686 –> 01:37:55.326
Dan Lancaster: But also stream deck is sick.

01:37:55.406 –> 01:37:56.486
Dan Lancaster: And those people are gone.

01:37:56.486 –> 01:37:58.946
Dan Lancaster: But for me, like moving around.

01:37:58.946 –> 01:38:00.186
Oli Sykes: Being in my existence.

01:38:00.186 –> 01:38:01.986
Dan Lancaster: No, it’s not.

01:38:01.986 –> 01:38:03.606
Dan Lancaster: It’s moving around my sessions.

01:38:03.606 –> 01:38:04.786
Dan Lancaster: Like, it’s really good for that.

01:38:04.786 –> 01:38:06.026
Oli Sykes: He loves his toys.

01:38:06.026 –> 01:38:06.326
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:38:06.326 –> 01:38:07.386
Oli Sykes: He loves his gadgets.

01:38:07.386 –> 01:38:10.606
Oli Sykes: Like when he came to mine in Brazil, I mean, I did keep it all.

01:38:10.606 –> 01:38:11.966
Oli Sykes: I was like, buy all this off here.

01:38:11.966 –> 01:38:17.526
Oli Sykes: But it’s just got like webcams and little clip on Bluetooth microphones.

01:38:17.746 –> 01:38:22.646
Oli Sykes: Like, you have to have everything like working like obviously won’t work.

01:38:22.966 –> 01:38:24.046
Oli Sykes: It’s crazy actually.

01:38:24.046 –> 01:38:27.806
Dan Lancaster: If I got something wrong with me, I think I might be a problem.

01:38:28.986 –> 01:38:39.026
John Kennedy: We also wonder about people’s routines and whether there’s a routine that you have that helps you maintain your creativity or puts you in that right frame of mind.

01:38:39.026 –> 01:38:44.206
John Kennedy: I mean, do you do the same thing every day or do you abandon that and not do that at all?

01:38:45.766 –> 01:38:46.526
Dan Lancaster: We’re all different.

01:38:46.526 –> 01:38:49.806
Dan Lancaster: Oli’s got a good routine from looking from the outside, it seems.

01:38:49.806 –> 01:38:50.746
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:38:50.746 –> 01:38:52.146
Dan Lancaster: When you’re in one place, you know.

01:38:52.146 –> 01:38:52.326
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:38:52.326 –> 01:38:54.686
Oli Sykes: I mean, just gym, really.

01:38:54.686 –> 01:38:56.466
Oli Sykes: Going to gym in the morning.

01:38:56.466 –> 01:39:09.546
Oli Sykes: If I don’t do that, then I find that my creativity, not just the creativity, but like because you’re sat around for a long stretch of the time and stuff and the cabin fever just really gets to you if you don’t get that energy out and stuff.

01:39:09.546 –> 01:39:18.646
Oli Sykes: But apart from that, it’s just making sure that you do like allow other sources of creativity to come, whether it’s watching a movie, playing a video game, listening to other music.

01:39:18.646 –> 01:39:24.026
Oli Sykes: Sometimes you get like writer’s block and you’ve got note in you.

01:39:24.026 –> 01:39:28.806
Oli Sykes: You’re just going back in the next day and just getting back in the studio expecting that’s going to change somehow.

01:39:28.806 –> 01:39:36.786
Oli Sykes: It’s like if you’re not inspired, why do you think you’re going to be inspired the next day without reading a book, without going out and stuff?

01:39:38.526 –> 01:39:39.386
Dan Lancaster: You’re good at cutting off.

01:39:39.966 –> 01:39:42.446
Dan Lancaster: I thought it might be more of a grind than it is.

01:39:42.446 –> 01:39:46.446
Dan Lancaster: Dig It would have been a bad example because it was clutch time.

01:39:46.446 –> 01:39:49.346
Oli Sykes: We do grind a lot, but trying to make…

01:39:49.346 –> 01:39:50.866
Dan Lancaster: You make a good point of stopping.

01:39:50.866 –> 01:39:51.646
Oli Sykes: To touch grass.

01:39:51.746 –> 01:39:52.266
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:39:52.266 –> 01:39:57.046
Dan Lancaster: Stopping, going to the shop and finishing for the day.

01:39:57.046 –> 01:40:01.926
Dan Lancaster: Might be like eight o’clock, you’ve run out of vibes, so you just stop and I was like…

01:40:01.946 –> 01:40:03.486
Oli Sykes: There’s an anxiety limit as well.

01:40:03.486 –> 01:40:07.226
Oli Sykes: I find when we’re writing music, it’s like anxiety just rises slowly over the day.

01:40:07.226 –> 01:40:10.146
Oli Sykes: When you get to about eight o’clock, it’s like painful.

01:40:10.146 –> 01:40:14.006
Oli Sykes: I think writing music is like going to a perfume shop and smelling all the perfumes.

01:40:14.006 –> 01:40:18.906
Oli Sykes: It’s like, first one smells good and then after like four, you’re like, I don’t know what smells good anymore.

01:40:18.906 –> 01:40:20.166
Oli Sykes: And it’s just the same with writing music.

01:40:20.166 –> 01:40:24.286
Oli Sykes: By the end, it’s like, why am I trying to write music when I have no…

01:40:24.286 –> 01:40:25.446
Oli Sykes: Music sounds terrible to me.

01:40:25.446 –> 01:40:29.506
Oli Sykes: The amount of times we say, maybe there’s just enough music in the world.

01:40:29.506 –> 01:40:32.826
Oli Sykes: We don’t need another song because I fucking hate music.

01:40:32.826 –> 01:40:38.426
Oli Sykes: What’s the point in writing music when you get to that point at day where you’re like, it could be the best thing in the world, it could be the worst.

01:40:38.426 –> 01:40:39.926
Oli Sykes: I have no…

01:40:40.306 –> 01:40:41.806
Oli Sykes: That’s a real thing, isn’t it, with music?

01:40:41.806 –> 01:40:43.386
Oli Sykes: Yeah.

01:40:43.386 –> 01:40:45.426
Oli Sykes: And I’m pretty sure everyone feels that way.

01:40:45.426 –> 01:40:48.506
Oli Sykes: By the end of the day, it’s just like, I have no idea.

01:40:48.606 –> 01:40:54.986
Oli Sykes: And all you can do is kind of synthesize a pretend emotion towards it that you know that you felt.

01:40:54.986 –> 01:40:59.286
Oli Sykes: And it’s almost like you remember, go hold on to that feeling when you’re buzzing right now.

01:40:59.286 –> 01:41:04.166
Oli Sykes: And all you can do is like hark that back and go, I remember that I definitely felt something for this.

01:41:04.166 –> 01:41:11.426
Oli Sykes: But even at that point, it’s hard to start arguing with this other part of your brain that’s going, it’s terrible, it’s terrible, it’s terrible.

01:41:11.426 –> 01:41:14.966
John Kennedy: You know, so this kind of crosses over.

01:41:14.966 –> 01:41:22.706
John Kennedy: But we always ask everybody for any advice they might have picked up along the way or lessons they might have learned that they would share with other people.

01:41:23.346 –> 01:41:27.906
John Kennedy: And I mean, you’ve been kind of dishing out the advice throughout the course of our chat.

01:41:27.906 –> 01:41:34.106
John Kennedy: But I mean, is there anything that you kind of particularly hold dear or really rely on?

01:41:34.106 –> 01:41:50.706
Dan Lancaster: Patience, like improving your skills over time, rather than obsessing on song to song, or parts of song to parts of song, like just evolving that hearing palette and being in different situations, working with different people and being patient and doing it over time.

01:41:51.246 –> 01:41:53.326
Dan Lancaster: That’s really the only way you’re going to improve.

01:41:53.846 –> 01:42:02.946
Dan Lancaster: You can improve quickly at first, but once that learning curve flattens out and you know a good amount, you just need experience.

01:42:02.946 –> 01:42:04.706
Dan Lancaster: That’s what I found.

01:42:04.706 –> 01:42:05.746
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:42:05.746 –> 01:42:07.346
John Kennedy: Patience is a good one.

01:42:07.346 –> 01:42:13.326
Oli Sykes: I think it’s doing whatever you can to try and minimize your ego with the music.

01:42:13.326 –> 01:42:21.026
Oli Sykes: The way you view the work you make is always going to be harder to view it as anyone else is going to view it because you made it.

01:42:21.026 –> 01:42:24.606
Oli Sykes: So it’s never going to be as good as anyone else thinks.

01:42:24.606 –> 01:42:32.746
Oli Sykes: But also sometimes it can also be that, like I was saying earlier, you can be so proud of something that you’ve made because you can’t believe you’ve made it.

01:42:32.746 –> 01:42:38.866
Oli Sykes: It’s almost like you were so preoccupied whether you could make it, that you didn’t stop to think if you should make it.

01:42:38.866 –> 01:42:42.486
Oli Sykes: I think it’s been able to remove yourself and your ego and everything from it.

01:42:42.486 –> 01:42:47.326
Oli Sykes: Whether for me, a lot of time when we write music, I won’t listen to it for two, three weeks.

01:42:48.526 –> 01:42:57.586
Oli Sykes: So I’ll not ask for the demos and I’ll just wait until because it helps to almost remove myself from the process of making it.

01:42:57.586 –> 01:43:02.446
Oli Sykes: It’s almost like if I listen to it the next day, it’s like I can see the behind the scenes of it all.

01:43:02.446 –> 01:43:05.326
Lee Malia: Even as a song rather than as a piece.

01:43:05.326 –> 01:43:07.006
Lee Malia: Yeah, it’s hard to separate that.

01:43:07.106 –> 01:43:08.086
Oli Sykes: So it’s stuff like that.

01:43:08.086 –> 01:43:19.406
Oli Sykes: Whatever it is, there’ll be little different things you can do, but it’s trying to remove yourself as much as possible from the creation and view it from the lens of not you, if that makes sense.

01:43:19.406 –> 01:43:22.446
Oli Sykes: That and I think, play to your strengths.

01:43:22.446 –> 01:43:28.286
Oli Sykes: I don’t mean like stay in your own lane, but I think where we’ve gone wrong in our career is wanting to be someone else.

01:43:28.286 –> 01:43:32.846
Oli Sykes: Me wanting to be like, sound like Artie Monkeys or be a pop singer when I’m a rock singer.

01:43:32.846 –> 01:43:34.306
Oli Sykes: And do you know what I mean?

01:43:34.306 –> 01:43:39.046
Oli Sykes: You get into stuff and you get influenced by stuff, and you want to, anyway, I want to be everyone.

01:43:39.046 –> 01:43:39.866
Oli Sykes: I want to be everything.

01:43:39.866 –> 01:43:40.746
Oli Sykes: I want to do everything.

01:43:41.506 –> 01:43:58.346
Oli Sykes: And it’s like realising that if you’re good at something and you’ve got a real strength there, like our band, for instance, we’re the one of the last bands that you could argue were a mainstream act that have screaming, have breakdowns, have heaviness, and people love that about our band.

01:43:58.346 –> 01:44:00.226
Oli Sykes: And there’s no one else doing it.

01:44:00.226 –> 01:44:00.746
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

01:44:00.746 –> 01:44:07.946
Oli Sykes: So it’s like, go as crazy as you want, but don’t lose that part of yourself that makes you special and different from everyone.

01:44:08.006 –> 01:44:12.146
Oli Sykes: And don’t just try and, you know, there’s a band out there that already sounds like that.

01:44:12.146 –> 01:44:13.306
Oli Sykes: So why are you trying to sound like them?

01:44:13.306 –> 01:44:14.886
Oli Sykes: Because you’re never going to be as good.

01:44:14.886 –> 01:44:20.446
Oli Sykes: So if you’re like any kid that’s starting out and stuff, it’s like, find someone that you love that’s yours.

01:44:20.446 –> 01:44:21.066
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

01:44:21.326 –> 01:44:22.406
Oli Sykes: That you’re doing different.

01:44:22.406 –> 01:44:23.606
Oli Sykes: You can take influences.

01:44:23.606 –> 01:44:28.026
Oli Sykes: And I mean, nearly all bands and artists do start off by just going, I want to sound like this.

01:44:28.026 –> 01:44:28.626
Oli Sykes: I want to do that.

01:44:28.626 –> 01:44:35.946
Oli Sykes: But start looking for those areas that are going to make you go, oh, that band, yeah, they sound like this, but they do that.

01:44:35.946 –> 01:44:36.546
Oli Sykes: Do you know what I mean?

01:44:36.626 –> 01:44:43.406
Oli Sykes: And it’s just finding that little thing that makes you unique and different because we don’t need to or anyone, you know, so.

01:44:43.406 –> 01:44:44.046
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:44:44.046 –> 01:44:49.526
John Kennedy: And I guess it takes time to work that through and have that realization.

01:44:49.526 –> 01:44:52.966
John Kennedy: Thank you so much for giving us your time and taking us into your world.

01:44:52.966 –> 01:44:54.466
John Kennedy: It’s been incredible.

01:44:54.466 –> 01:44:57.846
John Kennedy: We should play out with one more piece of music from the album.

01:44:57.846 –> 01:44:59.226
John Kennedy: And we’ve heard the closing track.

01:44:59.226 –> 01:45:05.746
John Kennedy: Is there anything else that you’d like to throw a spotlight on just to kind of give people another taste of what it’s all about?

01:45:06.366 –> 01:45:07.086
Dan Lancaster: Utopia.

01:45:07.086 –> 01:45:08.306
Oli Sykes: Yeah, Utopia is the opener.

01:45:08.306 –> 01:45:08.926
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:45:08.926 –> 01:45:09.726
John Kennedy: Okay.

01:45:09.726 –> 01:45:14.726
Dan Lancaster: Because you changed the pitch of the verse to get it, Where’s the place I want?

01:45:14.726 –> 01:45:16.606
Dan Lancaster: Because it was too low, do you remember?

01:45:16.606 –> 01:45:18.546
Dan Lancaster: And then the chorus became too high.

01:45:18.546 –> 01:45:21.206
Dan Lancaster: So it was one of those tunes that kept changing key.

01:45:21.206 –> 01:45:22.526
Oli Sykes: Yeah, that one changed.

01:45:22.526 –> 01:45:23.166
Dan Lancaster: That was a hard song.

01:45:23.166 –> 01:45:24.626
Oli Sykes: That was a pop punk song at first.

01:45:24.626 –> 01:45:25.206
Dan Lancaster: Yeah.

01:45:25.206 –> 01:45:25.666
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:45:25.666 –> 01:45:26.046
John Kennedy: Okay.

01:45:26.046 –> 01:45:26.466
John Kennedy: This is it.

01:45:26.466 –> 01:45:27.406
John Kennedy: This is Utopia.

01:45:27.406 –> 01:45:30.406
John Kennedy: It’s Bring Me The Horizon from POST HUMAN, NeX GEN.

01:45:49.602 –> 01:45:54.922
John Kennedy: Thank you for listening, and in particular thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on Patreon.

01:45:54.922 –> 01:45:59.402
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01:45:59.402 –> 01:46:07.402
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01:46:07.402 –> 01:46:10.742
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01:46:11.222 –> 01:46:16.342
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01:46:16.342 –> 01:46:19.882
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01:46:19.882 –> 01:46:21.422
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01:46:21.422 –> 01:46:22.702
John Kennedy: Until next time, goodbye.