Full Transcript:

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John Kennedy: Hello, welcome to Tape Notes.

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John Kennedy: I hope you’re well.

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John Kennedy: We have got a new episode for you this week, and I’m very excited about it.

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John Kennedy: I caught up with Simon Green, better known as Bonobo, at Baltic Studios, which Shai told us was actually just around the corner from his old recording space.

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John Kennedy: This was an old flat that he used to live in, which was split on two floors, and he would pass a mic down the outside of the house to get it into the room below.

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John Kennedy: It was amazing to hear how he did things back then.

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John Kennedy: And that trip back in time didn’t stop there.

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John Kennedy: That’s what we do in the episode, starting with his most recent single, Expander, going all the way back to his classic Black Sands album.

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John Kennedy: We had lots of questions to put to Sigh from Patrons.

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John Kennedy: Unfortunately, we couldn’t get through all of them, but he was very generous with his time, and we tried to weave in as many as we could.

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John Kennedy: Sigh also dug in to where he gets his samples from, and one thing he showed us after our conversation is that he now uses Tape It to record samples on his phone, which was really exciting to hear, as not only are they our partners, but it’s an app that the team at Tape Notes all use as well, and it’s really exciting to see people in the industry using it too.

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John Kennedy: More on Tape It later in the show.

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John Kennedy: Hello and welcome to Tape Notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

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John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

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John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tape Notes is Bonobo to talk about how he wrote, recorded and produced works from across his back catalog.

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John Kennedy: Simon Green, better known as Bonobo, is an English musician, producer and DJ.

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John Kennedy: Raised in a musical family with both parents deeply immersed in the English folk scene, and sisters who are gifted instrumentalists, Simon naturally gravitated toward music.

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John Kennedy: A skilled drummer and guitarist, he spent his teenage years playing in bands across London and Brighton.

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John Kennedy: His passion eventually led him to DJing, which ignited an interest in electronic music production.

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John Kennedy: Often combining sounds from his instrumental-based background with techniques from Trip Hop, after several singles and an EP, in 2000 he released his debut album, Animal Magic, on the Tru Thoughts label.

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John Kennedy: While Simon continued to experiment with his two subsequent releases, blending in elements of new jazz and electronica, it was with his fourth album, Black Sands, released in 2010 that he began to see greater commercial success.

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John Kennedy: Incorporating more live instrumentation and world influences with his multi-layered atmospheres, the gold-selling record became a benchmark album for electronic music fans.

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John Kennedy: Now, one of the biggest names in dance music, Simon’s career has seen him release 11 EPs and seven studio albums, including 2017’s Migration, which was nominated for Best Dance Electronic Album at the Grammys, and 2022’s critically acclaimed Fragments, which continued to push creative boundaries.

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John Kennedy: His latest work, the single Expander, released in August 2024, is a slice of fresh yet unmistakable bonobo, weaving organic vocals and instrumentation with vibrant dance floor energy.

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John Kennedy: Today, I’m at Baltic Studios in Hoxton, and I’m joined by Simon, and what better way to start our conversation than by hearing something from his most recent album.

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John Kennedy: This is Rosewood.

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John Kennedy: It is Rosewood by Bonobo, and I’m very pleased to say that Simon Green, who is Bonobo, is sat here with me in the studio.

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John Kennedy: Hello, Si, how are you?

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Simon Green: I’m great, how are you doing?

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John Kennedy: I’m very well, thank you.

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John Kennedy: Thank you so much for making your time and joining us to tell us how you make your amazing music.

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Simon Green: Well, it’s an honor to be here, big fan of the podcast.

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John Kennedy: Thank you, that’s nice to hear.

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John Kennedy: And I mean, there’s so much to talk about, and we’re going to kind of have a bit of an overview of the work that you’ve done over the years, because we’re going to dig into two recent tracks and dig into a couple of oldies as well to kind of talk about the contrast between how you used to work then, how you work now.

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John Kennedy: But I think maybe we’ll start with Expander, which is the most recent release, but you could play us a Blast of the Master maybe?

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Simon Green: Yeah, absolutely.

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Simon Green: This is actually, this is from the actual Ableton session, so hopefully all the parts are there.

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John Kennedy: It is Expander by Bonobo and At Time of Speaking.

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John Kennedy: So this is September 2024.

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John Kennedy: That came out in August 2024.

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John Kennedy: So that is pretty brand spanking new, really.

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Simon Green: Yeah, it is.

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Simon Green: I mean, actually the whole process for this track is pretty new.

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Simon Green: I mean, it’s, I don’t think I’ve ever like made a track and released it in such a short span before, because this actually was made in the summer as well.

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John Kennedy: Right.

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Simon Green: So it’s been like the whole process of like making it and releasing it has been sort of like less than two months, which is, I’ve never really done that before.

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John Kennedy: That’s really exciting.

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John Kennedy: And what inspired that?

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John Kennedy: I mean, did you just have an idea and think, right, let’s go and record that.

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John Kennedy: And it’s like, you know what, let’s just put it out there.

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Simon Green: I think so.

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Simon Green: Yeah.

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Simon Green: I mean, I’ve been working on lots of music since Fragments, which is the last album.

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Simon Green: And I was just thinking that it’s going to be a little while before the next album is out.

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Simon Green: And I’ve also been working on this score, which has taken up some best part of last year as well.

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Simon Green: So I just wanted to kind of get something out.

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Simon Green: So there’s not this huge void of nothing for a while.

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Simon Green: So it’s going to, yeah, and I just made this, I just kind of came off tour sometime in June, and just kind of had a week at home, and I was just very sort of jet lagged, and I had got this like massive cold.

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Simon Green: And I just kind of like stayed in for a whole week, and then just kind of sat at the kitchen table with Ableton, and then this tune just sort of popped out.

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John Kennedy: Wow, amazing.

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John Kennedy: You make it sound quite simple and straightforward.

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John Kennedy: And what is the starting point?

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John Kennedy: Because there’s lots of different ingredients there.

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John Kennedy: Is it the beat?

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John Kennedy: Is it a vocal sample?

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John Kennedy: Is it a sound?

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Simon Green: This was actually, I rarely start with drums, but this one, I wanted to just sort of focus on making a drum track, which is not usually the way I work.

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Simon Green: I’d usually find a sample or a loop or a little riff or something, and then try and re-harmonize it and then work on the drums.

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Simon Green: But this one, I actually had this idea in my head to make this very specific, quite swingy beat and just keep it as percussive for as long as possible with the elements.

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Simon Green: So the bass elements to have them be as percussive as possible, and the synth stabs and just have everything be this percussive build, and then all the vocal elements and the samples all came later.

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John Kennedy: So are you able to show us what came first then?

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Simon Green: Yeah, absolutely.

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Simon Green: So the drums just on their own, let’s see.

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John Kennedy: Do these come from your own recordings of drums, or are these part of a sample pack?

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Simon Green: I have a archive of drums that I’ve just collected favorite kicks and snares and stuff over the years, but then I also layer stuff with a lot of Foley sounds, which I also collect.

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Simon Green: I’ve archive a lot of samples as I record them.

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Simon Green: So I’ll have, for example, the noise that the little central console in my car makes when you close it, is I’ve been sat there for hours thinking how that’s a really good snare.

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Simon Green: So I record a bit of that and that’s in the folder, and then little coffee cups that sound particularly percussive, and I’m just going to save that and go home and sample it.

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Simon Green: So I have all those sounds ready to go.

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Simon Green: And then just kind of more regular drum samples, and more sort of conventional kick drums and hi-hats and everything else.

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Simon Green: And I just sort of layer stuff up.

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Simon Green: All right, so let’s see what is going on with this.

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Simon Green: Okay, here’s some percussion.

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John Kennedy: So that pattern, would that have been the first thing you did?

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Simon Green: Yeah, I think I actually put in these little accents in here against the kick, kind of.

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Simon Green: That’s what kind of gave it the swing, I think.

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Simon Green: I think this is just that little sound I had kind of recorded from a modular jam from some years ago.

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Simon Green: And then this is, oh, this is also a modular thing, actually.

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Simon Green: This is sort of like a little sequence that I did on a modular thing that I just sort of have in my archives.

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Simon Green: It’s from a IntelliGel Plonk, which is the name of the module.

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Simon Green: And then this little kind of accent here.

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Simon Green: And then the kick.

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Simon Green: And that just sort of like established a nice swing.

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Simon Green: And then from there I kind of added up.

00:11:56.013 –> 00:11:59.833
John Kennedy: And when you’re placing all those elements, so you’re trialing them all.

00:11:59.833 –> 00:12:03.513
John Kennedy: You like to try it here, try it there, trying to work out the exact placing for them.

00:12:03.513 –> 00:12:04.173
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

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Simon Green: I’ll spend quite a lot of time just kind of getting the…

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Simon Green: I’ll manually do swing.

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Simon Green: I know there’s templates and I use them sometimes, but I prefer to sort of use swing as it just kind of feels good.

00:12:16.713 –> 00:12:21.533
Simon Green: And I’ll also do something where I’ll try not to loop everything in fours.

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Simon Green: So I’ll have like the hi-hats will be a sequence of, it might be like, five notes or a bar and a half, and then the snares will repeat in threes.

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Simon Green: So everything is…

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Simon Green: every hit is slightly different.

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Simon Green: So, you know, you get a full sequence of like 16 bars before anything is exactly the same, even though it’s very subtle.

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Simon Green: It kind of makes it feel a little looser and that you’re not really getting that repetition as much because things aren’t hitting in exactly the same place each time.

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John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:12:51.813 –> 00:12:59.253
John Kennedy: And so you’ve put this together, you’re listening to it and presumably enjoying it and kind of feeling it.

00:12:59.253 –> 00:13:00.813
John Kennedy: And then what do you think?

00:13:00.813 –> 00:13:01.753
John Kennedy: You know what?

00:13:01.753 –> 00:13:02.753
John Kennedy: I need to do this now.

00:13:02.753 –> 00:13:03.593
John Kennedy: I need to change this.

00:13:03.593 –> 00:13:06.873
John Kennedy: I need to make it more interesting or add another element.

00:13:06.873 –> 00:13:09.393
John Kennedy: And is that is that how your thought processes are working?

00:13:09.393 –> 00:13:09.653
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:13:09.653 –> 00:13:11.013
Simon Green: I mean, as I said, this one’s kind of…

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Simon Green: This is not the usual workflow.

00:13:13.453 –> 00:13:18.793
Simon Green: I’d usually start with a melodic element or a sample, but I kind of went reverse with this one.

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John Kennedy: Yeah.

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John Kennedy: And in terms of, you sat there at the kitchen table working on this, and how in the zone do you get or allow yourself to get…

00:13:29.553 –> 00:13:31.553
John Kennedy: Does it become…

00:13:31.553 –> 00:13:36.353
John Kennedy: The sun comes up, and before you know it, it’s got dark.

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Simon Green: Yeah.

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Simon Green: My actual sort of working process has changed a lot, because I used to be like that.

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Simon Green: I think when I was younger and making my first couple of records, I would definitely be working on something, and then suddenly there’s light coming in the window, and I’m like, oh, God, I haven’t gone to bed.

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Simon Green: But these days, I find that I’m a lot more kind of, I wouldn’t call it discipline, but I’m just a bit more sort of structured in how I work.

00:14:00.253 –> 00:14:02.853
Simon Green: I actually find that I’m more productive in the morning.

00:14:02.853 –> 00:14:20.113
Simon Green: Like I think that’s the kind of the magic spot for me, is I kind of wake up and grab a coffee, and then I’m sort of like I have this like two or three hours where this little window of productivity happens, and then I just kind of like do as much as I can, and then it’s just kind of like trying to keep that momentum.

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Simon Green: But I think most of the ideas, when it happens, it can be really, it can kind of like take you away for hours, like especially like you get into the zone where you weren’t expecting to even work that day or do anything.

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Simon Green: I just kind of ride the wave when it happens, and sometimes you’ll find that you’ve just been sat there all day and you haven’t eaten and it’s dark and you’re sitting in a dark house looking at a screen and it was one minute, it was morning and now it’s like the whole day is passing.

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Simon Green: I think that’s really good when that happens, because it just means that you’ve kind of really been sucked into the void of something happening.

00:14:55.893 –> 00:14:56.553
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:14:56.553 –> 00:14:59.373
John Kennedy: And with Expander, what happened next then?

00:14:59.933 –> 00:15:01.713
John Kennedy: You’ve achieved your aim, you’ve got a great beat.

00:15:02.353 –> 00:15:02.573
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:15:02.573 –> 00:15:05.833
Simon Green: So, okay, so there’s some more, a few more little elements here.

00:15:05.833 –> 00:15:07.253
Simon Green: There’s kind of these.

00:15:10.053 –> 00:15:13.413
Simon Green: This is some of the kind of foley stuff I was talking about, I don’t know.

00:15:13.413 –> 00:15:15.893
Simon Green: Oh yeah, this is actually from my car.

00:15:17.113 –> 00:15:20.873
Simon Green: This is like the snare drum from my car.

00:15:21.053 –> 00:15:22.813
John Kennedy: What part of the car is that?

00:15:22.813 –> 00:15:28.093
Simon Green: So there’s the little, the little compartment in the middle, in the next to the driver’s seat.

00:15:28.093 –> 00:15:32.613
Simon Green: It has this little cover that lifts up and closes, then you can put stuff in it.

00:15:32.613 –> 00:15:39.553
Simon Green: And just the way it closes has this really satisfying kind of clunk, which I just recorded it on my phone and just had it.

00:15:39.553 –> 00:15:39.913
John Kennedy: I love this.

00:15:39.913 –> 00:15:42.373
John Kennedy: So you know, where Sy always hasn’t got out of the car yet.

00:15:42.713 –> 00:15:45.533
John Kennedy: He’s kind of listening to the sound of this thing closing.

00:15:45.533 –> 00:15:49.573
Simon Green: Yeah, just kind of flicking the indicator switches on and off.

00:15:50.613 –> 00:15:51.873
Simon Green: So that’s what that was.

00:15:52.853 –> 00:15:59.093
Simon Green: So yeah, all these little noises and other textures that are happening in this drum part.

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Simon Green: And then I think this is another little modular hi-hat shuffle.

00:16:20.641 –> 00:16:26.041
Simon Green: And the next thing was the bass, which was…

00:16:27.921 –> 00:16:29.141
Simon Green: No, not that one.

00:16:29.141 –> 00:16:30.261
Simon Green: It was like a synth part.

00:16:44.054 –> 00:16:53.614
Simon Green: Yeah, so that was actually an Arteria version of an OB-4.

00:16:53.614 –> 00:16:58.094
Simon Green: And so there’s an OB-Expander, and then there’s an OB-8.

00:16:58.094 –> 00:17:03.974
Simon Green: So I think when I started it, I was using an Oberheim Expander.

00:17:04.514 –> 00:17:10.114
Simon Green: But this is a plug-in version, and eventually I switched it out to an Oberheim 4-voice plug-in.

00:17:10.114 –> 00:17:11.514
Simon Green: So it’s just kind of doing intervals.

00:17:11.514 –> 00:17:21.374
Simon Green: I think it’s fifths, and you can just open up the filter, and it just kind of becomes huge, or you can close the filter, and it just becomes very sort of subtle and rhythmic, and it sits in the back.

00:17:21.374 –> 00:17:29.534
Simon Green: So this is the sound that kind of threads through the whole track, and towards the end and the big builds, this is the main sound that kind of opens up.

00:17:29.534 –> 00:17:38.074
Simon Green: It’s just opening up that filter and decay, and it becomes this really enormous sound as the track comes on.

00:17:38.074 –> 00:17:39.814
John Kennedy: Yeah, it sounds great.

00:17:39.814 –> 00:17:47.454
John Kennedy: One interesting thing about your music and the tracks that you create, is that they feel as if you’re playing them then and there.

00:17:47.454 –> 00:17:56.594
John Kennedy: Like you’re in my headphones, and there’s a Simon Green at the other end, just kind of play it because of the way that you create the feel of the tracks.

00:17:56.594 –> 00:18:03.014
John Kennedy: They always seem to be evolving and changing, even though they’re obviously threads and themes that are running through a piece of music.

00:18:03.014 –> 00:18:09.254
John Kennedy: But it sounds as if you could actually be playing all these changes in yourself in real time.

00:18:09.414 –> 00:18:14.874
John Kennedy: Maybe that’s just my imagination, because they’re always subtly twisting and turning.

00:18:14.874 –> 00:18:26.254
Simon Green: Yeah, I think I try to respect the moment where the idea comes, and if it just feels like I’m just going to put the synth on, and what happens if I open this filter?

00:18:26.254 –> 00:18:26.994
Simon Green: That sounds really cool.

00:18:27.974 –> 00:18:31.394
Simon Green: Don’t overdo it, just have that be the thing.

00:18:31.394 –> 00:18:38.174
Simon Green: I’m sure a lot of people say this, and I’ve heard a lot of people say this, but I think most of the ideas of a track will come in 45 minutes.

00:18:38.174 –> 00:18:55.614
Simon Green: That’s not to say that it took 45 minutes to make a track, but the idea will fall out pretty quickly, and then it’s just making sure you don’t overcook it in a way, and you’ll end up working on track for days, but essentially what you’re working on is what happened in that first hour or two.

00:18:56.894 –> 00:18:57.814
Simon Green: So that’s the same with this.

00:18:57.814 –> 00:19:07.634
Simon Green: I think it was that drum beat and that synth part, and the idea that it opens up into this enormous epic feeling synth moment.

00:19:07.934 –> 00:19:12.454
Simon Green: That was the essence of this, and that’s the way I kept it as I went on with it.

00:19:12.454 –> 00:19:16.794
John Kennedy: But to contrast it, you have brought in these other elements as well, particularly the vocal.

00:19:16.794 –> 00:19:17.014
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:19:17.014 –> 00:19:17.754
Simon Green: I think that’s the thing.

00:19:17.754 –> 00:19:23.354
Simon Green: So you have this quite raw moment of the drums and this raw synth that feels like a performance, right?

00:19:23.354 –> 00:19:27.914
Simon Green: That’s the synth itself is like you’re kind of playing it and opening the filter in real time.

00:19:27.914 –> 00:19:44.534
Simon Green: But then it’s sort of around that as all this intricate stuff that happens in these little parts of sound design, and that’s the stuff that takes ages, and it’s just kind of fitting all these like supporting melodic ideas and little sounds, and that’s the kind of secondary stuff really.

00:19:44.534 –> 00:19:56.434
John Kennedy: So back to the track, let’s hear a bit more of the beat and the synth, and then maybe you can explain how you were in those other elements, the two vocal things.

00:20:00.974 –> 00:20:06.894
Simon Green: Okay, the other thing is this synth here, which is sort of like a call and response to the bass.

00:20:09.374 –> 00:20:15.534
Simon Green: And that is just, that’s operator.

00:20:15.534 –> 00:20:18.234
Simon Green: That’s just Ableton operator with a little bit of tape wobble.

00:20:18.274 –> 00:20:23.034
Simon Green: Well, this thing, this plug-in I use on almost everything.

00:20:23.034 –> 00:20:26.594
Simon Green: And it’s TB RealBus.

00:20:28.794 –> 00:20:30.034
Simon Green: And it’s a tape emulator.

00:20:30.034 –> 00:20:33.034
Simon Green: And it has, it gives everything a little bit of width.

00:20:33.034 –> 00:20:36.214
Simon Green: But the thing I like is this sort of tape wobble.

00:20:44.363 –> 00:20:46.043
Simon Green: I mean, this is it, really exaggerated.

00:20:49.983 –> 00:20:56.003
Simon Green: So, I kind of put that on stuff to give it this, like, you know, make things kind of come alive a little bit.

00:20:56.003 –> 00:20:56.163
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:20:58.143 –> 00:21:03.243
Simon Green: Anyway.

00:21:03.263 –> 00:21:04.843
Simon Green: And then this is all a vocal chop thing.

00:21:13.182 –> 00:21:15.042
Simon Green: Which is quite mad on its own, actually.

00:21:15.042 –> 00:21:16.982
Simon Green: I think I’ve listened to this in isolation.

00:21:19.862 –> 00:21:20.622
John Kennedy: Where’s that from?

00:21:20.822 –> 00:21:26.542
John Kennedy: That could be a Foley recording, in that you could have been just eavesdropping on people chatting in the background.

00:21:26.542 –> 00:21:27.502
Simon Green: It could have been, yeah.

00:21:27.502 –> 00:21:31.162
Simon Green: It’s actually from a huge Tracy Archives.

00:21:31.162 –> 00:21:35.242
Simon Green: They did a field recording in, I think, the 50s or 60s.

00:21:35.242 –> 00:21:40.322
Simon Green: Well, I mean, I have access to these recordings and I just chopped up one of them and fit it in.

00:21:40.442 –> 00:21:50.902
Simon Green: Again, it’s like having a little element being percussive rather than melodic, but I think it’s just, yeah, I think it’s from a chant, someone chanting or a couple of people chanting.

00:21:50.902 –> 00:21:54.642
John Kennedy: But it also brings in the first human sound.

00:21:54.642 –> 00:21:55.242
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:21:55.302 –> 00:21:57.802
John Kennedy: Then the second human sound is completely different.

00:21:57.802 –> 00:21:58.822
Simon Green: Yeah, which is this one.

00:22:17.513 –> 00:22:19.593
John Kennedy: I mean, that voice is amazing.

00:22:19.593 –> 00:22:20.933
John Kennedy: What is that from?

00:22:20.933 –> 00:22:22.413
Simon Green: So that’s a sample.

00:22:22.413 –> 00:22:25.413
Simon Green: I think it’s a recording from the 60s.

00:22:25.413 –> 00:22:26.693
Simon Green: Let’s have a look if I caught it.

00:22:26.693 –> 00:22:30.613
Simon Green: So the sample, the voice and the flute are from the same thing.

00:22:30.733 –> 00:22:32.373
Simon Green: Let’s see if I can find the whole thing.

00:22:40.833 –> 00:22:42.493
John Kennedy: So this is the original recording.

00:22:42.493 –> 00:22:43.273
Simon Green: And then the flute.

00:22:52.937 –> 00:22:56.477
John Kennedy: Can you reveal who that is, where that’s from?

00:22:56.477 –> 00:23:00.637
Simon Green: I think so, but I’m not 100% sure if I’m allowed.

00:23:00.637 –> 00:23:03.797
Simon Green: I’m pretty sure that it’s all good.

00:23:03.797 –> 00:23:05.197
Simon Green: But essentially, that’s kind of what it was.

00:23:05.197 –> 00:23:06.757
Simon Green: It was from digging on.

00:23:07.157 –> 00:23:09.357
John Kennedy: And yeah, where do you find this stuff?

00:23:09.357 –> 00:23:26.677
Simon Green: So, I mean, just listening to music and just having, hearing stuff kind of jump out occasionally, and again, having like another archive of samples of stuff as I hear it, and then I’ll just kind of grab, grab bits and just sort of throw everything in this sort of folder.

00:23:26.677 –> 00:23:34.857
Simon Green: So I think for this one, I was just sort of clicking through, I knew that something like another element, another melodic element needed to happen.

00:23:34.857 –> 00:23:39.677
Simon Green: So I was just kind of digging through samples, and I found…

00:23:39.677 –> 00:23:41.457
John Kennedy: Digging through samples you’d already collected?

00:23:41.457 –> 00:23:42.197
Simon Green: Yes, exactly.

00:23:42.197 –> 00:23:50.577
Simon Green: Digging through this folder and just kind of pulling stuff into the session and sort of retuning in a very sort of like crude way just to see if anything might fit.

00:23:50.737 –> 00:23:56.697
Simon Green: And this, I kind of dropped this sample in, which I think I tried to use in something else and it didn’t quite work.

00:23:56.697 –> 00:24:00.917
Simon Green: And I just kind of threw it in against, you know, against what was already happening.

00:24:00.917 –> 00:24:02.857
Simon Green: And it just sort of like something just clicked.

00:24:02.857 –> 00:24:03.537
Simon Green: So there it is.

00:24:03.537 –> 00:24:12.097
Simon Green: That’s, that’s the contrast that it needed to go between this sort of super textural melodic moment back into the drums.

00:24:12.097 –> 00:24:15.117
Simon Green: I thought that was that’s kind of the structure of the track.

00:24:15.117 –> 00:24:23.957
Simon Green: It’s kind of this these two sort of juxtaposing different energy of the loud kind of percussive part and then a super melodic breakdown.

00:24:23.957 –> 00:24:27.657
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s such a great contrast and enhances each.

00:24:27.657 –> 00:24:32.577
John Kennedy: So it’s a real surprise when you hear her voice in contrast to what you’ve given us already.

00:24:32.577 –> 00:24:33.837
Simon Green: It’s a little jarring.

00:24:33.837 –> 00:24:54.037
Simon Green: First time I played it out, I think it takes people by surprise a little bit, especially as I’ve put it in a part of the set that I’m playing quite heavy techno in that area of quite peak time music, and then it suddenly switched to this very gentle voice, comes out of nowhere.

00:24:54.037 –> 00:24:58.377
Simon Green: I like that it has that surprise switch.

00:24:58.377 –> 00:25:08.457
John Kennedy: Yeah, I think it’s really effective and it’s nice because you give us a tiniest taste of it and then move back to the beat, and then you come back to it and it’s kind of a bit more expansive.

00:25:08.457 –> 00:25:11.937
Simon Green: Yeah, kind of explore it further in the second breakdown.

00:25:11.937 –> 00:25:12.357
Simon Green: Let’s see.

00:25:22.356 –> 00:25:28.136
Simon Green: And then this is where, from here, this is the part where we start opening up the synth a little more.

00:25:41.333 –> 00:25:42.633
John Kennedy: And it’s quite a long build, isn’t it?

00:25:42.633 –> 00:25:45.273
Simon Green: It is, yeah.

00:25:45.273 –> 00:25:51.173
Simon Green: It was shorter, but then I was actually, well, we’ll get to this part and I’ll…

00:25:57.732 –> 00:25:59.112
Simon Green: So there’s that filter opening up.

00:26:25.680 –> 00:26:27.720
John Kennedy: Have you been able to play this to a crowd?

00:26:27.720 –> 00:26:30.380
Simon Green: I have, I was playing it out all summer, actually.

00:26:30.380 –> 00:26:34.680
Simon Green: I think I actually first played it out at Glastonbury.

00:26:34.680 –> 00:26:35.560
John Kennedy: Right.

00:26:35.560 –> 00:26:37.680
John Kennedy: Yeah, so it was recorded before Glastonbury.

00:26:37.680 –> 00:26:39.400
Simon Green: It was, yeah, so I’m trying to think of a timeline.

00:26:39.720 –> 00:26:43.000
Simon Green: But really just a week before Glastonbury, I think.

00:26:43.000 –> 00:26:48.720
Simon Green: I got back from Australia, and then I had a week or two at home.

00:26:48.720 –> 00:26:54.040
Simon Green: And then it wasn’t the finished version, but it was a pretty close one.

00:26:54.360 –> 00:26:58.360
John Kennedy: So you’re able to test out these elements and see how people responded.

00:26:58.360 –> 00:27:09.620
John Kennedy: Because I think people are really hungry for that beat to return, for the kick drum to come back, but getting excited, having also had this beautiful moment of calm with the voice.

00:27:09.620 –> 00:27:12.580
Simon Green: Yeah, and there’s this moment, this big moment of sort of.

00:27:15.460 –> 00:27:19.000
Simon Green: So, this actually, I played this to my friend Chris Lake.

00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:26.940
Simon Green: As actually we were in the studio together working on something else, and I pulled up this and played him this part of the tune.

00:27:31.520 –> 00:27:42.280
Simon Green: So this part here, he augmented these hits and these like, kind of like these claps and little white noise hits.

00:27:42.280 –> 00:27:44.580
Simon Green: So this was kind of his doing this little section here.

00:27:52.286 –> 00:27:54.266
Simon Green: Also, this little micro kick.

00:27:56.046 –> 00:27:59.786
Simon Green: Which really kind of like, is that one extra sort of part of tension before?

00:27:59.786 –> 00:28:01.566
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, it’s such a tease.

00:28:01.566 –> 00:28:06.886
Simon Green: Yeah, and this big noise here as well, this kind of like, whatever that is.

00:28:09.566 –> 00:28:15.086
Simon Green: So yeah, that was like the last hurdle of this kind of build up before the final drop.

00:28:15.086 –> 00:28:17.426
John Kennedy: Yeah, I love it, I bet people go crazy.

00:28:17.426 –> 00:28:19.206
Simon Green: Yeah, it’s a big moment out there.

00:28:20.486 –> 00:28:22.306
Simon Green: Shout out, Chris Lake.

00:28:22.306 –> 00:28:27.586
John Kennedy: Well, we should hear maybe that section and we could wrap up Expander unless there’s anything else you need to tell us.

00:28:27.586 –> 00:28:27.986
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:28:27.986 –> 00:28:28.846
John Kennedy: And why Expander?

00:28:28.846 –> 00:28:31.626
John Kennedy: Because it’s kind of expanding through the course of the track.

00:28:31.626 –> 00:28:34.786
Simon Green: Actually, because of the Oberheim Expander.

00:28:34.786 –> 00:28:47.906
Simon Green: And then I think I realized that I’ve remembered rather that there’s a Sasha track called Expander, and I’m pretty sure that he must have arrived at the same conclusion, because here’s a spell, Expander, which is actually the name of the Oberheim synth.

00:28:47.906 –> 00:28:53.846
Simon Green: So I’m pretty sure that we kind of arrived at the same conclusion, and then it was like, oh wait, there’s a Sasha tune called Expander.

00:28:53.846 –> 00:28:58.346
Simon Green: But I think it’s fine to have a song that exists for the same name.

00:28:58.346 –> 00:28:58.526
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:29:23.253 –> 00:29:24.913
John Kennedy: I love all the different elements involved in it.

00:29:24.913 –> 00:29:34.873
John Kennedy: And I love how those little voices almost sound like, you know, when people are playing, their instruments sitting there, kind of vibing on it, and they’re just kind of, yeah, a little exclamation.

00:29:34.873 –> 00:29:35.933
John Kennedy: That’s what I thought, yeah.

00:29:36.053 –> 00:29:39.433
Simon Green: It kind of, I was just chopping stuff up, it sounded exactly like that.

00:29:39.433 –> 00:29:42.153
Simon Green: It also kind of sounds like an MC a little bit.

00:29:42.873 –> 00:29:45.433
Simon Green: You know, it sounds like a sort of old kind of jungle-ist.

00:29:45.433 –> 00:29:45.853
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:29:45.853 –> 00:29:46.513
Simon Green: Vocal.

00:29:46.513 –> 00:29:47.913
John Kennedy: It really does.

00:29:47.913 –> 00:29:54.153
John Kennedy: We have had quite a lot of questions via Patreon for you, Sai, and we’re going to try and pepper them throughout the course of the interview.

00:29:54.153 –> 00:29:55.753
John Kennedy: And this one kind of relates to this.

00:29:55.753 –> 00:29:58.073
John Kennedy: So it’s from Diego Laje.

00:29:58.073 –> 00:30:05.313
John Kennedy: He asks, for Tape Mention in his recent interview, the importance of the track arrangement to keep a loop alive and the audience engaged.

00:30:05.313 –> 00:30:08.993
John Kennedy: How do you approach the arrangement of your tracks in this sense?

00:30:08.993 –> 00:30:18.453
John Kennedy: So we’ve kind of touched on a little bit, but when you were making this, you were thinking about the dance floor as much as you were thinking about, I just want to start with drums and have some fun.

00:30:19.013 –> 00:30:20.193
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:30:20.193 –> 00:30:27.413
Simon Green: Arrangement for me kind of can, I think there has to be a moment where you just make decisions on what the track is going to be.

00:30:27.413 –> 00:30:30.333
Simon Green: And I think it can be a very sort of quick.

00:30:30.333 –> 00:30:31.853
Simon Green: Sometimes for me is a very quick decision.

00:30:31.853 –> 00:30:35.213
Simon Green: I think you just have to go quite instinctive instinctively.

00:30:36.953 –> 00:30:41.353
Simon Green: Because overthinking arrangement can can sometimes be a detriment to the track.

00:30:41.353 –> 00:30:45.673
Simon Green: So I think you just have to kind of have this sort of stream of consciousness with it a little bit.

00:30:45.673 –> 00:30:50.553
Simon Green: And just make quick decisions, be like, okay, drums, then this thing, then this thing, then that’s out.

00:30:50.553 –> 00:30:52.573
Simon Green: And then we’re having a breakdown and the drums are back in.

00:30:52.573 –> 00:30:58.433
Simon Green: And sometimes it’s just this very quick process of deciding what needs to happen.

00:30:58.433 –> 00:31:01.773
Simon Green: So not overthinking it is what gets me through arrangement.

00:31:01.773 –> 00:31:04.033
Simon Green: It’s actually not my strongest point arrangements.

00:31:04.033 –> 00:31:06.413
Simon Green: I find that I can sort of make eight bar loops forever.

00:31:06.413 –> 00:31:13.713
Simon Green: And then when it comes to the point of actually turning it into a cohesive track, that’s something that has to…

00:31:13.713 –> 00:31:15.353
Simon Green: Sometimes I’ll do a few passes.

00:31:15.353 –> 00:31:17.733
Simon Green: I’ll just kind of, okay, let’s start here.

00:31:17.733 –> 00:31:20.713
Simon Green: And I’ll have a few different saved arrangements.

00:31:20.713 –> 00:31:23.993
Simon Green: So like it could be, it could go this way or it could go that way.

00:31:23.993 –> 00:31:25.613
Simon Green: And just whatever kind of feels right.

00:31:25.613 –> 00:31:39.473
Simon Green: And then what’s also helpful to me, and this is good for general kind of music making, is just having someone come in the room and just standing beside you whilst you play something and you immediately hear it for the first time.

00:31:40.193 –> 00:31:42.313
Simon Green: And like how it could be perceived by other people.

00:31:42.313 –> 00:31:44.853
Simon Green: And it’s the same as like playing something out.

00:31:44.853 –> 00:31:54.013
Simon Green: If you’re testing something out on a crowd or DJing something, or just having an audience of some sort will reveal a lot of what the track needs.

00:31:54.013 –> 00:32:00.573
Simon Green: And sometimes that’s like this section is way too long, or this needs to be louder, or that doesn’t need to be there at all.

00:32:00.573 –> 00:32:03.073
Simon Green: And I think that’s always very helpful.

00:32:03.933 –> 00:32:08.313
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s almost forces your self to become objective about it.

00:32:08.313 –> 00:32:13.953
John Kennedy: Because you’re not necessarily seeing it through their eyes, and you’re not necessarily relying on their reaction to it.

00:32:13.953 –> 00:32:19.933
John Kennedy: But just seeing a reaction maybe allows you to step aside and view it differently.

00:32:19.933 –> 00:32:20.373
Simon Green: Totally.

00:32:20.373 –> 00:32:25.833
Simon Green: And even if you have somebody coming through the studio, and everyone will be like, it’s cool.

00:32:25.833 –> 00:32:30.813
Simon Green: But you know if there’s a sort of an energy, if you mean it or you don’t, you can tell when you don’t mean it.

00:32:31.473 –> 00:32:34.413
Simon Green: So it’s like, okay, now I need to work on this a little bit more.

00:32:34.413 –> 00:32:34.913
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:32:34.913 –> 00:32:36.813
John Kennedy: Now you’ve got to have people around you in a way.

00:32:36.813 –> 00:32:37.613
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:32:37.613 –> 00:32:38.833
John Kennedy: At some point.

00:32:38.833 –> 00:32:43.353
John Kennedy: Now it’s all very well being in the kitchen for a week, not seeing anybody.

00:32:43.353 –> 00:32:44.553
John Kennedy: But sometimes you need to-

00:32:44.553 –> 00:32:46.053
Simon Green: I mean, good stuff comes from those situations.

00:32:46.053 –> 00:32:51.473
Simon Green: But yeah, also at some point, you’re going to have to sort of other humans will have to hear something.

00:32:51.473 –> 00:32:52.353
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:32:52.353 –> 00:32:54.733
John Kennedy: It’s good to be aware of those realizations.

00:32:54.733 –> 00:32:56.813
John Kennedy: We’re going to move on from Expander.

00:32:56.813 –> 00:32:59.053
John Kennedy: Let’s have a quick blast of the end, I think.

00:32:59.373 –> 00:33:02.773
Simon Green: It just sort of returns to some of the elements from the beginning.

00:33:31.470 –> 00:33:33.370
John Kennedy: And is that the same flute or is that?

00:33:33.370 –> 00:33:37.290
Simon Green: Yeah, these are all the sort of parts that have appeared already.

00:33:37.650 –> 00:33:41.070
Simon Green: There’s nothing new at the end, it’s just sort of turning that.

00:33:41.070 –> 00:33:46.350
Simon Green: This is the first time you kind of get the actual groove with all of those other melodic elements all together.

00:33:46.350 –> 00:33:47.450
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:33:47.450 –> 00:33:49.690
John Kennedy: And the bass sound is operator?

00:33:49.690 –> 00:33:52.470
Simon Green: The bass sound is the same synth that kind of opens up.

00:33:52.470 –> 00:33:55.350
Simon Green: Oh, actually, no, there is a sub bass here that’s operator.

00:33:55.350 –> 00:33:57.050
Simon Green: I think it’s just kind of…

00:33:58.850 –> 00:34:02.290
Simon Green: Yeah, that’s just an operator, sort of sub kind of doing a…

00:34:03.570 –> 00:34:04.790
Simon Green: See this?

00:34:06.050 –> 00:34:06.770
Simon Green: No, that’s a piano.

00:34:35.022 –> 00:34:42.162
John Kennedy: Yeah, so Expander is the most recent track, and in a way that’s a stopgap track or something.

00:34:42.162 –> 00:34:48.362
John Kennedy: That’s something that you’re inspired to create and give out there because you’re still working on a new album.

00:34:48.362 –> 00:34:50.882
Simon Green: Yes, yeah, slowly.

00:34:50.882 –> 00:35:03.122
Simon Green: I mean, I’ve been sort of touring nonstop since the last album, but I’m always kind of working on stuff in the background, and I haven’t really, I don’t tend to sort of like sit down and be like, okay, touring is finished, now I’m going to make a new album.

00:35:03.242 –> 00:35:11.622
Simon Green: I tend to just sort of carry on making stuff, and then at some point, a project will come into focus, and then I’ll sort of spend some extended time working on it.

00:35:11.622 –> 00:35:19.702
Simon Green: I’m actually going to take, after October, I’m going to take like six months off from touring and just focus on finishing a record.

00:35:19.702 –> 00:35:26.322
John Kennedy: Excellent, but you’re going to stay with us today, because we’re going to look at Sapien from Fragments next.

00:35:28.402 –> 00:35:31.502
David: 75% of all the sounds in every song I make will be recorded on my phone.

00:35:31.682 –> 00:35:34.122
David: I make voice memos throughout the whole writing process.

00:35:34.122 –> 00:35:35.642
David: Trumpet impression on a voice note.

00:35:35.642 –> 00:35:37.202
John Kennedy: I record it on my phone.

00:35:37.202 –> 00:35:37.762
John Kennedy: On my iPhone.

00:35:37.762 –> 00:35:40.362
John Kennedy: The phone really is like key.

00:35:40.362 –> 00:35:47.302
John Kennedy: The voices of past Tape Notes guests who rely on voice memos to capture ideas, rehearsals and on the go recordings.

00:35:47.302 –> 00:35:57.082
John Kennedy: If you find Apple’s voice memos a bit of a mess, maybe even slightly frustrating to manage, try Tape It, the ultimate iPhone voice note app designed specifically for musicians.

00:35:57.082 –> 00:36:10.182
John Kennedy: Tape It is free and offers features you won’t find in voice memos, including automatic instrument detection, easy marker tools, long form scrolling and collaborative mixtapes to share sounds with bandmates or co-writers.

00:36:10.182 –> 00:36:16.362
John Kennedy: Among the many other features, you can record directly from your lock screen and attach text or photo notes to your recordings.

00:36:16.362 –> 00:36:18.302
John Kennedy: Worried about losing old voice memos?

00:36:18.302 –> 00:36:22.782
John Kennedy: Tape It allows easy importing, cloud syncing and direct transfers to your DAW.

00:36:23.262 –> 00:36:27.482
John Kennedy: So head to tape.it forward slash tape notes to install the app now.

00:36:27.482 –> 00:36:33.222
John Kennedy: And for even more, check out Tape It Pro and use promo code Tape Notes for 50% off.

00:36:33.222 –> 00:36:35.302
John Kennedy: And now on with the show.

00:36:38.262 –> 00:36:43.742
John Kennedy: This episode is supported by Museversal, an amazing new service for working with session musicians remotely.

00:36:43.742 –> 00:36:49.142
John Kennedy: If you use session musicians or would like to, but it’s been too expensive or hard to organize, this is for you.

00:36:49.142 –> 00:36:55.402
John Kennedy: And we have a special offer for any tape notes listeners, 25% off for the first three months and you get to skip the wait list.

00:36:55.402 –> 00:36:57.202
John Kennedy: But more on that in a moment.

00:36:57.202 –> 00:37:00.242
John Kennedy: I’ve got David from Museversal here to tell us all about it.

00:37:00.242 –> 00:37:01.162
John Kennedy: Hello, David.

00:37:01.162 –> 00:37:02.522
John Kennedy: What is Museversal?

00:37:02.522 –> 00:37:04.442
David: Hey, John, thank you so much for having us on here.

00:37:04.442 –> 00:37:05.782
David: Appreciate it a ton.

00:37:05.782 –> 00:37:16.822
David: Museversal is an online remote recording studio for artists, producers, composers, anyone who’s a music creator, to work with session musicians remotely.

00:37:16.822 –> 00:37:26.662
David: In a couple of clicks, you can go on and you can book a session with a drummer or a guitar player, a piano player, you name it, they’re on the platform.

00:37:26.662 –> 00:37:30.622
David: The way that it works is all of the sessions are hosted over Livestream.

00:37:30.622 –> 00:37:40.862
David: All of the revisions and feedback and all of the different little, hey, would you mind moving to the ride symbol for the fourth bar?

00:37:40.862 –> 00:37:44.462
David: Or would you mind finger plucking instead of using a pick?

00:37:44.462 –> 00:37:50.942
David: All of those types of creative choices can happen quite literally as if the musician is in the room just done over Livestream, yeah.

00:37:50.942 –> 00:37:51.882
John Kennedy: It sounds amazing.

00:37:52.242 –> 00:37:54.362
John Kennedy: In a way, the clue is in the name, musicversal.

00:37:54.362 –> 00:38:03.882
John Kennedy: It means that whether you’re a beginner or whether you’re somebody with a lot of experience, you can still get access to the same level of musicianship and creativity.

00:38:03.882 –> 00:38:21.522
David: Yeah, it’s amazing because it allows the music to have expression on it and musicianship that, if I’m sitting in my basement playing piano versus a piano player that’s played for, Jay-Z or has been playing for 25 plus years, the material that comes out of that is going to sound night and day.

00:38:21.522 –> 00:38:22.742
John Kennedy: What does it cost?

00:38:22.742 –> 00:38:28.202
David: The service is $200 a month US, and included in that is all of the sessions.

00:38:28.202 –> 00:38:30.242
David: There’s no additional fees or anything.

00:38:30.422 –> 00:38:33.362
David: You get to book as many sessions as you can have per month.

00:38:33.362 –> 00:38:39.402
David: To put it in perspective, the average user probably books about five to seven sessions per month.

00:38:39.402 –> 00:38:43.902
David: But we actually have some users booking 10, 12, 15 sessions per month.

00:38:43.962 –> 00:38:52.202
David: You can do the math on 200, the deal really is awesome and it allows people to work with incredible musicians and not break the bank.

00:38:52.202 –> 00:38:53.082
John Kennedy: It sounds great.

00:38:53.082 –> 00:38:55.862
John Kennedy: Can you remind us what the offer is for Tape Notes listeners?

00:38:55.862 –> 00:38:59.042
David: Well, look, we’re so thankful that you guys are having us on here.

00:38:59.042 –> 00:39:04.162
David: What we would love to do is offer 25% off per month for their first three months.

00:39:04.162 –> 00:39:06.842
David: And then the other cool part is they get to skip our waitlist.

00:39:06.842 –> 00:39:10.042
David: So we usually run a waitlist, it’s about two weeks long.

00:39:10.042 –> 00:39:14.242
David: But in this case, finding us through this episode, you could have a session as early as tomorrow.

00:39:14.842 –> 00:39:15.502
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

00:39:15.502 –> 00:39:20.002
John Kennedy: And to get the offer, all you have to do is find the link in any of our recent episode show notes.

00:39:20.002 –> 00:39:21.502
John Kennedy: David, thank you so much for speaking to us.

00:39:21.502 –> 00:39:26.682
John Kennedy: And maybe one day we’ll be talking about a piece of music that’s been created using Musiversal.

00:39:26.682 –> 00:39:27.562
David: That would be incredible.

00:39:27.562 –> 00:39:29.462
David: We cannot wait for that day.

00:39:31.642 –> 00:39:36.142
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at by Bonobo is Sapien from the Fragments album.

00:39:36.142 –> 00:39:38.682
John Kennedy: Simon, if you could play us the track, that would be great.

00:40:42.191 –> 00:40:45.171
John Kennedy: It is Sapien by Bonobo from Fragments.

00:40:45.171 –> 00:40:47.351
John Kennedy: And how did this one start then, Cy?

00:40:47.351 –> 00:40:54.591
Simon Green: This was actually during lockdown, so 2020, at home in LA, where I guess a lot of this record happened.

00:40:54.591 –> 00:41:00.771
Simon Green: I feel, Cy, sort of like such a throwback talking about kind of lockdown records now and four years later.

00:41:00.771 –> 00:41:03.651
Simon Green: But yeah, I mean, a lot of this record was made during that period.

00:41:03.651 –> 00:41:14.831
Simon Green: And this was like, I really was diving into modular stuff as a way to sort of keep myself kind of entertained and inspired whilst I’m not traveling.

00:41:14.831 –> 00:41:27.771
Simon Green: Because I find that usually like ideas come from either being away on the road or having come back from being away and sort of having my head full of music and ideas.

00:41:28.951 –> 00:41:35.371
Simon Green: So it was really hard to kind of find that kind of inspiration whilst nobody was moving around.

00:41:35.371 –> 00:41:43.691
Simon Green: So I feel like modular was a way that I kind of like could dive into exploring ways to kind of make things more interesting.

00:41:43.691 –> 00:41:46.851
Simon Green: And this track is one of those.

00:41:46.851 –> 00:41:51.411
Simon Green: So the main sound, the main thing I started with was this Rhodes.

00:41:51.411 –> 00:41:58.051
Simon Green: So I have Rhodes in my studio and I sent it through these low pass gates which were like sequenced.

00:41:58.631 –> 00:42:09.331
Simon Green: So it was a make noise low pass gate sequenced by something else from URAC.

00:42:09.331 –> 00:42:14.891
Simon Green: But what I really liked about it was having this playing Rhodes through the sequence in real time.

00:42:14.891 –> 00:42:23.211
Simon Green: So as the decays of the notes, and of course you can like hold these big sort of polyphonic textural notes, but as they’re decaying, they’re still being sequenced.

00:42:23.211 –> 00:42:33.191
Simon Green: And you can kind of overlap different notes and just kind of keep everything very loose and polyphonic, but it’s still going to exist within this sort of sequenced structure.

00:42:33.191 –> 00:42:34.551
Simon Green: So that was the kind of the idea.

00:42:34.551 –> 00:42:44.491
Simon Green: So that the Rhodes and the bass, which is also a Rhodes, through a modular low pass sequence, which was this.

00:42:53.178 –> 00:42:58.618
John Kennedy: So, every time you hit a key on the Rhodes, it’s being sequenced and processed in a different way.

00:42:58.618 –> 00:43:01.958
John Kennedy: So, each key will sound different.

00:43:01.958 –> 00:43:04.578
Simon Green: Yeah, so it’s kind of, the sequence stays the same.

00:43:04.578 –> 00:43:11.658
Simon Green: The sequence is always kind of going along, and it’s just how you interact with that sequence on the piano, basically.

00:43:11.658 –> 00:43:22.758
Simon Green: So, as you’re playing the Rhodes, it’s going to get triggered by this modular low-pass sequence, which is really fun, and it’s a very real-time thing.

00:43:24.078 –> 00:43:30.678
Simon Green: This patch will sort of suggest how you interact with it, because it’s very textural.

00:43:30.678 –> 00:43:39.338
Simon Green: So, it’s just nice to kind of hear these notes decaying, or the release times decaying through this low-pass thing.

00:43:39.338 –> 00:43:42.218
John Kennedy: So, in a way, you almost start playing with it.

00:43:42.218 –> 00:43:44.898
John Kennedy: It’s like your partner as you’re playing with it.

00:43:44.898 –> 00:43:45.578
Simon Green: Yeah, exactly.

00:43:45.578 –> 00:43:51.518
Simon Green: It’s keeping the time, and then you’re just contributing the notes and the sounds to it.

00:43:53.358 –> 00:43:57.898
Simon Green: Then I think there’s also another thing that’s going on, which is this pitched reverb.

00:43:57.898 –> 00:44:01.678
Simon Green: So, as a reverb return, I’ll send through a pitch shifter.

00:44:01.678 –> 00:44:06.918
Simon Green: So, I think this one was like a ninth above the root notes.

00:44:06.918 –> 00:44:12.898
Simon Green: So, you’re just having this reverb return that’s coming in, but it’s nine semitones above what’s going in.

00:44:13.978 –> 00:44:20.758
Simon Green: So, it has this sort of like shimmery harmonizing reverb thing that comes in.

00:44:20.758 –> 00:44:23.998
Simon Green: So, that’s the kind of slightly higher pitched thing you can kind of hear.

00:44:32.329 –> 00:44:34.229
John Kennedy: That’s not connected to the sequence.

00:44:34.229 –> 00:44:35.189
Simon Green: No, that’s in Ableton.

00:44:35.189 –> 00:44:35.989
John Kennedy: Yeah, right.

00:44:35.989 –> 00:44:36.949
Simon Green: That’s on the return channel.

00:44:36.949 –> 00:44:43.429
Simon Green: In fact, I’ll try and bring one of them in, because I save these return channels when I make them.

00:44:43.429 –> 00:44:45.309
Simon Green: All right, so this is an example of one of these.

00:44:45.309 –> 00:44:48.909
Simon Green: I’m going to just pull up a synth so I can actually.

00:44:51.229 –> 00:44:53.089
Simon Green: All right, so that’s just a dry little pluck synth.

00:44:53.109 –> 00:44:57.489
Simon Green: If I bring in this return channel, this is a different one, the other one I use.

00:44:58.949 –> 00:45:00.489
Simon Green: Wait, it’s going to be here.

00:45:04.149 –> 00:45:08.669
Simon Green: So what’s happening is, it’s going through.

00:45:08.669 –> 00:45:12.149
Simon Green: I actually made this little device here.

00:45:12.149 –> 00:45:15.729
Simon Green: So the first thing it’s going through is.

00:45:15.729 –> 00:45:18.429
Simon Green: Decapitator, so we get a bit of distortion.

00:45:18.429 –> 00:45:19.209
Simon Green: The signal is coming in.

00:45:19.289 –> 00:45:24.049
Simon Green: At first, it’s getting distorted, then it’s going to altar boy and it’s pitching.

00:45:24.049 –> 00:45:26.909
Simon Green: This one’s pitched to fifths.

00:45:26.909 –> 00:45:35.009
Simon Green: And then after that, oh, okay, so you can side chain this back on itself as well, which is kind of fun.

00:45:35.009 –> 00:45:56.849
Simon Green: If you go, if you select the side chain to be this return, see, then you get the, so it’s when you get the release, it’ll, yeah, it’ll duck for the input source.

00:45:56.849 –> 00:46:14.749
Simon Green: And then, and then I just put a few parameters on this chain here, so you can just bring it down to three controls, the drive, and then the formant shift, which gives it a different tone, and then the reverb decay.

00:46:23.333 –> 00:46:24.513
Simon Green: And you can…

00:46:26.173 –> 00:46:28.273
Simon Green: And I kind of put this kind of stuff on everything.

00:46:35.382 –> 00:46:37.122
Simon Green: We get quite musical with the formant.

00:46:49.911 –> 00:46:54.371
Simon Green: So that’s what I was using a lot on this track as well, that kind of thing.

00:46:54.371 –> 00:46:56.011
John Kennedy: It’s great that decay can go on forever.

00:46:56.011 –> 00:46:57.331
Simon Green: Yeah, it does, yeah.

00:46:57.571 –> 00:46:58.611
Simon Green: It’s a really long decay.

00:46:58.611 –> 00:47:01.371
Simon Green: I think that’s, I usually use a Valhalla stuff.

00:47:01.371 –> 00:47:05.051
Simon Green: This one’s actually Ableton Reverb, but I really like Valhalla.

00:47:05.051 –> 00:47:07.971
Simon Green: Yeah, I think Valhalla Room is the one that I like.

00:47:07.971 –> 00:47:14.691
Simon Green: And Vintage Verb is good too, but Room I really like because it has these huge cathedral decays that go on for a whole day.

00:47:14.691 –> 00:47:20.011
John Kennedy: Yeah, and so you’re creating Sapien, you’re trying out these different experiments.

00:47:20.011 –> 00:47:20.631
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:47:20.631 –> 00:47:27.031
John Kennedy: But creating the song or the track, how do you go about the evolution of Sapien?

00:47:27.031 –> 00:47:29.211
John Kennedy: What do you decide to do?

00:47:29.211 –> 00:47:35.231
Simon Green: I think for me, it was like finding a sort of A section, B section, and then from there, it was quite easy.

00:47:35.231 –> 00:47:49.771
Simon Green: I think actually, I know I said earlier that I struggle with arrangements, but I feel like this one, actually, I arranged pretty quickly and I quite instinctively knew where to go with it because it had these very distinct A, B, C sections.

00:47:49.771 –> 00:47:52.951
Simon Green: It was just a case of exploring those different parts of the track.

00:47:52.951 –> 00:47:58.871
John Kennedy: Do you play them in alongside your performance, or are you quite particular about programming them in or do you edit?

00:47:58.871 –> 00:48:01.071
John Kennedy: Do you record and then edit down?

00:48:01.591 –> 00:48:02.771
Simon Green: Yes, I’m very specific.

00:48:03.471 –> 00:48:20.911
Simon Green: I get into micro-editing, especially with stuff like with the roads going through the modular, there’s all of these little ghost notes happening and little delay tales and I’ll print everything and then I’ll start chopping up every transient and drag stuff around and flip one in reverse.

00:48:20.911 –> 00:48:22.711
Simon Green: But I want it to sound very natural.

00:48:22.811 –> 00:48:34.731
Simon Green: I want it to sound like it’s just being played and it all just happened very spontaneously, but I tend to edit meticulously for hours to get it to sound like it just happened very naturally.

00:48:34.731 –> 00:48:38.811
John Kennedy: Well, because to me, to my ears, it all sounds natural.

00:48:38.811 –> 00:48:43.111
John Kennedy: I think that’s the real skill or one of the real skills in what you’re doing.

00:48:43.111 –> 00:48:46.991
John Kennedy: As I was saying before, it always sounds like you’re there just playing these things.

00:48:46.991 –> 00:48:54.031
John Kennedy: But clearly, a lot of thought has gone in and decisions have been made, and it’s not just like you jamming in a room.

00:48:54.031 –> 00:48:54.471
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:48:54.471 –> 00:48:59.851
Simon Green: I mean, it is at the beginning, and I like that I can just be very free with sounds.

00:48:59.851 –> 00:49:11.631
Simon Green: What I like to do initially when I bring a sound in is just to throw it into the session unquantized, not necessarily in tune, and just listen to two sounds together and see how they interact.

00:49:11.651 –> 00:49:19.311
Simon Green: There might be a little moment, it might sound really chaotic, but there might be just a little moment where things unintentionally just fit together perfectly.

00:49:20.391 –> 00:49:30.931
Simon Green: I’m not looking to get things perfectly in time, but I’m looking for those little moments where sounds just complement each other pretty nicely.

00:49:30.931 –> 00:49:42.951
Simon Green: Often that’s a case of just letting stuff just run without any control over it and just waiting to see if anything clicks and then just refining that a little bit.

00:49:42.951 –> 00:49:45.631
John Kennedy: With Sapien, you had these A and B sections.

00:49:46.751 –> 00:49:48.711
John Kennedy: Could you illustrate each of them?

00:49:48.711 –> 00:49:49.351
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:49:49.351 –> 00:49:50.611
Simon Green: Let’s see.

00:49:52.831 –> 00:49:55.111
Simon Green: So this will be the A section, I suppose.

00:49:59.371 –> 00:50:00.411
Simon Green: Then this would be the second.

00:50:06.488 –> 00:50:09.268
Simon Green: Again, it’s like another flute sample that…

00:50:11.128 –> 00:50:19.648
Simon Green: I think this was from a sample from like a new age record from the 80s probably.

00:50:19.648 –> 00:50:24.148
Simon Green: This is a great source of like textural, sort of acoustic textural sound.

00:50:24.148 –> 00:50:30.448
John Kennedy: And I’m assuming that back in the day, when you first started out, you were sampling from records if you were looking for a sample.

00:50:30.448 –> 00:50:30.928
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:50:30.928 –> 00:50:36.188
John Kennedy: And, but now, you know, when we talk to people, they’re doing it in a quite different way.

00:50:36.348 –> 00:50:43.628
John Kennedy: And obviously, for a lot of artists like yourself, you accumulate samples and you create your own kind of sample banks.

00:50:43.628 –> 00:50:52.468
John Kennedy: But at the same time, you’re still searching through things, but often it will be done online now rather than going and doing their old-fashioned crate digging.

00:50:52.468 –> 00:50:53.288
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:50:53.288 –> 00:50:55.408
John Kennedy: Which, I mean, which do you favor now?

00:50:55.408 –> 00:51:04.268
John Kennedy: I mean, do you, I don’t know, it’s come up before, but YouTube is the world on a website and there’s so much music on there.

00:51:04.708 –> 00:51:08.268
John Kennedy: People just seem to stumble around on YouTube sometimes.

00:51:08.268 –> 00:51:10.208
Simon Green: YouTube is a great source.

00:51:10.208 –> 00:51:10.448
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:51:10.448 –> 00:51:22.288
Simon Green: I mean, back in the day, it would be spending hours in record stores, bringing a little portable record player, especially in America, like at the time, North America and Canada.

00:51:22.288 –> 00:51:25.668
Simon Green: There was such a vast amount of untapped vinyl.

00:51:25.888 –> 00:51:35.868
Simon Green: I’m finding now that 20 years later, all the stuff that we were picking up for a dollar or two is now on Discogs like 50 bucks or something.

00:51:35.868 –> 00:51:37.228
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:51:37.228 –> 00:51:38.488
Simon Green: Also, everything’s digital.

00:51:38.988 –> 00:51:46.328
Simon Green: All the rare things that we’re finding back in the day, and now all archived, they’re all on Spotify, everything.

00:51:46.328 –> 00:51:47.828
Simon Green: There’s nothing that’s untapped.

00:51:48.248 –> 00:51:52.028
Simon Green: The culture of looking for samples on vinyl has changed.

00:51:52.028 –> 00:52:05.448
Simon Green: Other than that, there is something really joyful about finding a record and discovering music on vinyl in a record store, and there’s a drum break, and it’s just like that was a really special moment.

00:52:05.448 –> 00:52:10.548
Simon Green: But nine times out of 10 now, all of that stuff is on online.

00:52:10.548 –> 00:52:16.928
Simon Green: It’s on Spotify, it’s on YouTube, and especially with YouTube, there are collectors, there are people who have collections.

00:52:16.928 –> 00:52:23.988
Simon Green: So if you’re looking for a specific track, not necessary for sampling, but just for music exploration.

00:52:24.108 –> 00:52:33.428
Simon Green: If you find somebody who’s posted a track that you wanted to find, and you kind of look at the rest of their collection, and you can sort of, you know, they’re the record collectors now.

00:52:33.428 –> 00:52:37.248
Simon Green: It’s like, you can go into their channel and just find all these other things that they have.

00:52:37.248 –> 00:52:38.808
Simon Green: It’s like, what else does this person have?

00:52:38.808 –> 00:52:42.728
Simon Green: And then it’s a kind of treasure troves all over YouTube.

00:52:42.728 –> 00:52:43.788
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s interesting.

00:52:43.788 –> 00:52:49.648
John Kennedy: We had a question from Richard Weller via Patreon, who kind of asked whether you miss that.

00:52:49.728 –> 00:52:54.988
John Kennedy: You know, whether you miss that old creative process that might have been behind Animal Magic or something like that.

00:52:54.988 –> 00:53:00.208
John Kennedy: But you’re saying maybe you don’t because you can do things more quickly.

00:53:00.208 –> 00:53:01.448
Simon Green: Yeah, I think so.

00:53:01.448 –> 00:53:04.108
Simon Green: But I do miss how considered everything was.

00:53:04.108 –> 00:53:08.688
Simon Green: And that’s to do with the process of sampling something.

00:53:08.688 –> 00:53:15.448
Simon Green: You know, you have to set up the record player and then we’re going into old Akai samplers and NPCs.

00:53:15.448 –> 00:53:17.208
Simon Green: And everything is a lot more considered.

00:53:17.208 –> 00:53:20.228
Simon Green: So I think now there’s the Ableton is a blank canvas.

00:53:20.468 –> 00:53:27.228
Simon Green: And we’re sort of in the digital era where you have infinite boundaries of what you can do.

00:53:27.228 –> 00:53:39.768
Simon Green: But what I really liked about that era of like the animal magic was working within the confines of these samplers that only had like 32 seconds of sample memory.

00:53:39.768 –> 00:53:45.988
Simon Green: So everything in the track had to really count and had to, nothing could be sort of disposable.

00:53:45.988 –> 00:53:53.248
Simon Green: You had to sort of really make that 32 seconds of sample memory count and there’s only eight note polyphony.

00:53:53.248 –> 00:53:54.928
Simon Green: So you can only have eight sounds at once.

00:53:54.928 –> 00:54:02.248
Simon Green: And I think that was a really useful parameter to work in early on, because it just makes everything a bit more considered.

00:54:02.248 –> 00:54:10.388
Simon Green: Like every sound really has to count and it has to really contribute something to the track and not just kind of pile those stuff in there for the sake of it.

00:54:11.068 –> 00:54:16.808
Simon Green: And the idea of like things are not going to get better if you just throw more sound at them.

00:54:16.808 –> 00:54:22.128
Simon Green: But it was an exercise in minimalism, which I think is something I’ve kind of tried to take with me as much as I can.

00:54:22.128 –> 00:54:23.088
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:54:23.088 –> 00:54:26.908
John Kennedy: And so with regard to Sapien, what more do we need to hear?

00:54:26.908 –> 00:54:29.248
John Kennedy: And what were you trying to achieve with Sapien?

00:54:29.248 –> 00:54:34.248
John Kennedy: With Expander, in a way, the dance floor was in the back of our mind maybe.

00:54:34.248 –> 00:54:36.448
John Kennedy: But with Sapien, it’s locked down.

00:54:36.448 –> 00:54:40.028
John Kennedy: You’re exploring music, you’re exploring your modular synths.

00:54:40.028 –> 00:54:40.528
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:54:40.528 –> 00:54:49.248
Simon Green: This one I wanted to kind of, it was more I think because of the nature of that road sound and everything being a little choppy, I wanted to kind of juxtapose it.

00:54:49.248 –> 00:54:52.648
Simon Green: Well, not juxtapose it, but I think it would be complemented with the sort of break beat.

00:54:52.648 –> 00:55:02.008
Simon Green: So a lot of the stuff was getting the drum programming and that road sequence to really sort of lock in together because the road thing is quite percussive.

00:55:02.008 –> 00:55:08.408
Simon Green: So I wanted to really weave that into the drum pattern and get the two things kind of really sitting together.

00:55:09.288 –> 00:55:27.168
Simon Green: And this is also kind of like, I think I was sort of referencing like a lot of earlier dance music that I was listening to in the 90s, like stuff like Meet Beat Manifesto and Future Sound of London and that kind of era was really like kind of like in the forefront of my mind whilst I was making this track as well.

00:55:27.168 –> 00:55:28.188
John Kennedy: That’s interesting.

00:55:28.188 –> 00:55:31.388
John Kennedy: Are you able to show us the beats at all?

00:55:31.908 –> 00:55:32.028
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:55:42.540 –> 00:55:43.980
Simon Green: Okay, I’ll just talk about the bass first.

00:55:44.280 –> 00:55:45.540
Simon Green: This is also a modular thing.

00:55:45.540 –> 00:55:49.920
Simon Green: This is a module called Bessimilis BAI.

00:55:49.920 –> 00:55:52.780
Simon Green: It’s got a really long name that I can’t remember right now.

00:55:52.780 –> 00:55:54.520
Simon Green: Noise engineering.

00:55:54.520 –> 00:56:03.260
Simon Green: And it’s supposed to be a drum machine, but I mostly use it for these kind of like lovely harmonic 808 low end kicks.

00:56:03.260 –> 00:56:19.660
Simon Green: So this was kind of, yeah, and you can sort of stretch the decay and stretch the formants, and like at least this really kind of really dense sort of 808 kicks that we’re providing or the low end.

00:56:19.660 –> 00:56:20.540
Simon Green: Okay, put drums.

00:56:20.560 –> 00:56:21.180
Simon Green: Let’s have a look.

00:56:36.773 –> 00:56:39.793
Simon Green: Actually, yeah, so the bass is kind of hitting on the kick.

00:56:42.633 –> 00:56:42.813
Simon Green: Yeah.

00:56:54.289 –> 00:56:55.269
Simon Green: What else is going on?

00:56:55.269 –> 00:56:57.389
Simon Green: We’ve got this little percussion thing.

00:57:00.629 –> 00:57:04.109
Simon Green: Sounds like an 808 clav, I think.

00:57:04.109 –> 00:57:06.389
Simon Green: And then, like, pitched, a couple of them are reversed.

00:57:18.454 –> 00:57:19.714
Simon Green: Oh, what’s this?

00:57:22.774 –> 00:57:24.914
Simon Green: Oh yeah, some more percussion there.

00:57:28.434 –> 00:57:32.854
Simon Green: Ah, oh yeah, here we go, there’s a break beat here, hiding in the background.

00:57:38.322 –> 00:57:47.222
Simon Green: So this was the thing, when I was thinking of like, you know, those old records I was talking about from the 90s, this was, I mean, I know there’s a lot of this, this kind of breakbeat thing is coming back quite a lot.

00:57:55.938 –> 00:57:57.638
Simon Green: So yeah, that’s what’s kind of going on.

00:57:57.638 –> 00:57:58.178
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:57:58.398 –> 00:58:04.878
John Kennedy: And in terms of the drums, do you process each individual part a lot or a little?

00:58:04.878 –> 00:58:14.178
John Kennedy: Or how do you, once you’ve decided what you’re going to use, you can crank up the EQ, compress things, trial and error?

00:58:14.178 –> 00:58:14.658
Simon Green: Not too much.

00:58:14.658 –> 00:58:15.838
Simon Green: It really depends what it needs.

00:58:16.318 –> 00:58:19.178
Simon Green: If it doesn’t need compression or EQing, then I’ll just leave it alone.

00:58:21.578 –> 00:58:25.078
Simon Green: I think treating program drums is different.

00:58:25.078 –> 00:58:32.378
Simon Green: If you’re working with a live drum kit, then you’ve got to deal with all the transients and the peaks and the compression, but every hit is going to be the same.

00:58:33.798 –> 00:58:36.478
Simon Green: I won’t do too much to drums.

00:58:36.478 –> 00:58:37.978
Simon Green: I’ll do some widening.

00:58:37.978 –> 00:58:51.978
Simon Green: If it’s really nice to get something that’s really tiny, like a little foley thing, like hit and then just make it really wide and put a width on it, and that’s fun because you make this tiny sound and it bring it right to the front.

00:58:51.978 –> 00:58:55.418
Simon Green: But otherwise, I’m not doing too much.

00:58:55.418 –> 00:59:04.798
Simon Green: I might put everything through a little bit of saturation, just put the drum buss and give everything a bit of overall clipping or a little bit of saturation.

00:59:04.798 –> 00:59:05.938
Simon Green: There’s actually a plugin.

00:59:06.318 –> 00:59:14.518
Simon Green: I wasn’t using it at the time, but I’ve started using it now called Knock, which is like a drum buss and it just gives everything a bit of extra weight.

00:59:15.358 –> 00:59:17.778
Simon Green: So yeah, I don’t do too much of the drums.

00:59:17.778 –> 00:59:18.578
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:59:18.578 –> 00:59:30.118
John Kennedy: In terms of how Sapien fitted within Fragments as a whole and the album, and I know you were saying that in a way it was created during that lockdown period.

00:59:30.118 –> 00:59:34.978
John Kennedy: Are you collecting these ideas together and then they became Fragments?

00:59:34.978 –> 00:59:40.698
John Kennedy: Or was there a particular sound that you were after or mission to explore a particular thing?

00:59:40.698 –> 00:59:43.938
Simon Green: Actually, this tune here was one of the first ones.

00:59:44.118 –> 00:59:46.498
Simon Green: This is one of the first pieces to fit.

00:59:46.498 –> 00:59:48.898
Simon Green: I think it’s quite an early on.

00:59:48.898 –> 00:59:53.458
Simon Green: So once I had this tune, I was like, right, this is the start of the record.

00:59:53.458 –> 00:59:56.578
Simon Green: Not actually the start of the record, but the start of the process.

00:59:56.578 –> 01:00:05.338
Simon Green: So another one called Counterpart, which came around in the same time, and those two were like, this is the middle of the sound of the record.

01:00:05.578 –> 01:00:14.158
Simon Green: This is where we start and then it’s going to branch off in each direction and balanced out with the vocal features and some other parts.

01:00:14.158 –> 01:00:18.198
Simon Green: But this was really the one that I was the most proud of.

01:00:18.198 –> 01:00:20.798
Simon Green: I think this is my favorite track of the record.

01:00:20.798 –> 01:00:26.738
Simon Green: It wasn’t one of the singles or anything, but it was one that I felt really good about when it happened.

01:00:26.738 –> 01:00:28.398
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:00:28.398 –> 01:00:31.078
John Kennedy: We are going to try and look at a couple of older tracks.

01:00:31.878 –> 01:00:33.278
John Kennedy: So we’ll take a quick break.

01:00:33.278 –> 01:00:38.278
John Kennedy: Shall we just hear a bit more of Sapien just around that journey or that part of the journey off?

01:00:38.498 –> 01:00:39.298
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:00:39.298 –> 01:00:41.038
Simon Green: Let’s do the end part because it’s kind of a little…

01:01:11.598 –> 01:01:21.098
John Kennedy: When you toured Fragments with a band, this sounds like a section that would have had a lot of people having a lot of fun on stage.

01:01:21.098 –> 01:01:25.798
Simon Green: This one, I actually had to assess what’s going to work in the live show and what’s not.

01:01:25.798 –> 01:01:30.478
Simon Green: And this one, I think, was just in the format of people on stage and musicians.

01:01:30.478 –> 01:01:32.478
Simon Green: I couldn’t actually make this one work.

01:01:32.478 –> 01:01:35.118
Simon Green: I think this was such a studio-based tune.

01:01:35.118 –> 01:01:35.338
John Kennedy: Right.

01:01:35.738 –> 01:01:37.558
Simon Green: But I have been, I play this one out sometime.

01:01:37.558 –> 01:01:44.158
Simon Green: If it’s like, it’s kind of like mellow, but at the right moment, I can definitely like play this out when I’m DJing.

01:01:44.158 –> 01:01:44.398
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:01:44.398 –> 01:01:49.158
Simon Green: I’ve done it before and like, you know, I’ve played like a really long set in Tokyo and it’s sort of 5 a.m.

01:01:49.158 –> 01:01:51.418
Simon Green: I played this, and it was like the right moment for it.

01:01:51.418 –> 01:02:00.178
Simon Green: But I don’t think like not every kind of dance floor moment is, it wouldn’t work necessarily like, like a Glastonbury for example.

01:02:00.718 –> 01:02:02.138
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s tricky.

01:02:02.138 –> 01:02:05.458
John Kennedy: But it’s great that you’re able to make it work when the right occasion.

01:02:05.458 –> 01:02:07.858
Simon Green: Yeah, when the right moment happens.

01:02:07.858 –> 01:02:25.338
Simon Green: Yeah, that’s a really special thing as well, when you can kind of like play something very deep and quite strange, and you have a crowd that trusts you, and you’ve kind of like spent a few hours building that trust and you can just do something quite odd, and that’s always like a very special moment.

01:02:25.338 –> 01:02:27.438
Simon Green: More so than just like playing a big banger.

01:02:27.438 –> 01:02:34.558
Simon Green: It’s like when you actually have those like, okay, we’re gonna play something really weird and strange, and then everybody’s just gonna be really in it.

01:02:34.558 –> 01:02:36.738
Simon Green: Yeah, it feels good when that happens.

01:02:36.738 –> 01:02:37.698
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:02:37.698 –> 01:02:41.538
John Kennedy: We’ll take a quick break, and the next song we’re going to look at is Cirrus.

01:02:41.538 –> 01:02:44.238
Simon Green: Cool.

01:02:44.238 –> 01:02:46.198
John Kennedy: Time for a quick Tape It feature highlight.

01:02:46.198 –> 01:02:50.778
John Kennedy: Among the various ways Tape It helps you organize your voice notes, you can create mixtapes.

01:02:50.778 –> 01:02:55.758
John Kennedy: If you’re working on a particular song or want to group specific ideas, you can add them to a mixtape.

01:02:55.758 –> 01:03:02.838
John Kennedy: And the best thing is you can invite bandmates or writing partners to collaborate on them so they can add their ideas to the mixtape as well.

01:03:02.838 –> 01:03:09.958
John Kennedy: To find out more, head to the link in a recent episode Show Notes or use the promo code TapeNotes for 50% off Tape It Pro.

01:03:12.178 –> 01:03:18.418
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at by Bonobo today is Cirrus from The North Borders album from back in 2013.

01:03:18.418 –> 01:03:29.718
John Kennedy: Now we’re going to hear a blast of The Master, but that’s really all we’re going to look at in a way because your archive of stems and sessions is probably on a myriad of different devices.

01:03:29.718 –> 01:03:35.398
Simon Green: Yeah, I think this one is probably in a, I live in LA and this is probably where it is.

01:03:35.398 –> 01:03:36.878
Simon Green: It’s on a hard drive somewhere there.

01:03:36.878 –> 01:03:39.458
Simon Green: And also I was working on logic then.

01:03:39.458 –> 01:03:43.198
Simon Green: And I think after North Borders was where I made the switch to Ableton.

01:03:43.198 –> 01:03:49.558
Simon Green: So this would have been an old logic file, which I don’t think I can even be able to pull up now.

01:03:49.558 –> 01:03:51.218
John Kennedy: And was that a creative decision?

01:03:51.218 –> 01:03:54.298
John Kennedy: Did you think, right, let’s have a go with Ableton and see how I like that?

01:03:54.678 –> 01:04:01.998
Simon Green: Yeah, I was touring the North Borders and we had Ross throwing snow with us.

01:04:01.998 –> 01:04:06.838
Simon Green: He was opening on some of the shows and he’s like a real Ableton head.

01:04:06.838 –> 01:04:12.318
Simon Green: Like he knows his way around it in an insane way, like the patching and the ins and outs of Ableton.

01:04:12.318 –> 01:04:17.278
Simon Green: I was really sort of, I just kind of sat with him for a while and he just showed me, like, this is what you can do with Ableton.

01:04:17.658 –> 01:04:26.038
Simon Green: So it seemed like really, because he’s like the way he sort of understands Ableton is kind of like way above like what I’ve seen it do before.

01:04:26.038 –> 01:04:28.038
Simon Green: So I think that was the moment.

01:04:28.038 –> 01:04:32.018
Simon Green: And also I think it’s when Ableton 9 happened and Logic 10 happened.

01:04:32.018 –> 01:04:35.798
Simon Green: And I just kind of saw Ableton 9 and then I saw Logic 10.

01:04:35.798 –> 01:04:38.138
Simon Green: And I was like, okay, this is the path now.

01:04:38.138 –> 01:04:38.658
John Kennedy: Right.

01:04:38.658 –> 01:04:39.258
Simon Green: And I loved it.

01:04:39.258 –> 01:04:43.498
Simon Green: It was such an intuitive way of like creating stuff.

01:04:44.558 –> 01:04:53.478
Simon Green: It’s so exploratory, Ableton, like it really encourages you to approach things in a more kind of creative way, I think.

01:04:53.478 –> 01:04:53.838
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:04:53.838 –> 01:04:54.438
John Kennedy: Really interesting.

01:04:54.438 –> 01:04:57.138
John Kennedy: But we’re going to step into the logic years now.

01:04:57.138 –> 01:04:57.698
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:04:57.698 –> 01:04:59.458
John Kennedy: Into the world of the North Borders.

01:04:59.458 –> 01:05:01.278
John Kennedy: So Cirrus is the track we’re going to look at.

01:05:01.278 –> 01:05:05.258
John Kennedy: Maybe if you could play us The Master and we’ll get an idea of what it’s all about.

01:06:27.553 –> 01:06:31.333
John Kennedy: A little taste of Cirrus by Bonobo from The North Borders album.

01:06:31.333 –> 01:06:33.013
John Kennedy: And it’s great hearing that again.

01:06:33.013 –> 01:06:35.793
John Kennedy: There was a point where that just seemed to be ubiquitous, I think.

01:06:35.793 –> 01:06:45.593
John Kennedy: Wherever I seem to go for a couple of years, be it festival, cafe, sound system, often people would be playing that at some point.

01:06:45.593 –> 01:06:46.933
John Kennedy: Did it seem like that for you?

01:06:46.933 –> 01:06:57.253
Simon Green: It did, but then I was so familiar with this tune because I’m still playing it most of the time when I’m DJing and it’s still in the live show.

01:06:57.733 –> 01:07:03.633
Simon Green: So I feel like I’ve been listening to the song every week for like 10, what is it, like 12 years.

01:07:03.633 –> 01:07:04.213
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:07:04.213 –> 01:07:08.873
John Kennedy: But it’s such a classic, it sounds amazing and this is great because I get to ask what those sounds are.

01:07:09.533 –> 01:07:13.413
John Kennedy: I mean, there’s so many different sounds and I’ve often wondered over the years, what are they?

01:07:13.413 –> 01:07:14.213
John Kennedy: Are they chimes?

01:07:14.213 –> 01:07:14.993
John Kennedy: Are they bells?

01:07:14.993 –> 01:07:16.293
John Kennedy: Are they vibraphones?

01:07:17.533 –> 01:07:18.813
John Kennedy: What are all those ingredients?

01:07:19.013 –> 01:07:26.133
Simon Green: Well, this was actually, so I had moved from London to New York in 2011.

01:07:27.193 –> 01:07:38.373
Simon Green: It’s just after Black Sands had come out and yeah, I just decided that it was time to get out of the UK and try something else and I was spending a lot of time in New York.

01:07:39.733 –> 01:07:41.673
Simon Green: Yeah, I just ended up moving.

01:07:41.673 –> 01:07:42.613
Simon Green: I just was like, let’s do it.

01:07:42.613 –> 01:07:54.993
Simon Green: I’m just going to move to New York and first day in my apartment or very early on at least, I set up a studio which was really at the time just a Mac.

01:07:54.993 –> 01:07:56.333
Simon Green: I think it was a G4 then.

01:07:56.333 –> 01:08:05.693
Simon Green: I don’t know what it was, but it was just that and a pair of monitors and I had a Profit 5, and a couple of other bits.

01:08:05.693 –> 01:08:22.473
Simon Green: The first thing I did when I got to New York and one of the first days I lived there, I went into Manhattan and I found, I don’t know, it’s not there anymore, but somewhere on the Lower East Side was this musical instrument store, and it was in this little basement, and it felt like the opening scene of Gremlins.

01:08:22.473 –> 01:08:37.893
Simon Green: There’s this little treasure trove of all of these global instruments, and all of these little toys, and shakers, and percussion, and I found this kalimba, and I just took it home and recorded it.

01:08:37.893 –> 01:08:50.813
Simon Green: The first thing that happened was, yeah, the first part of the whole North Borders process, and the first thing of the song was this kalimba that was one of the first things that I did when I lived in New York.

01:08:51.673 –> 01:08:52.253
John Kennedy: Wow.

01:08:52.253 –> 01:08:55.333
John Kennedy: So a kalimba, that’s an African instrument?

01:08:55.373 –> 01:08:57.113
Simon Green: Kalimba, yeah.

01:08:57.113 –> 01:08:58.493
Simon Green: It’s an African thumb piano.

01:08:58.493 –> 01:09:02.753
Simon Green: So it’s usually made by hammered tines.

01:09:02.953 –> 01:09:06.893
Simon Green: So similar to like a rose or a whorlitzer, and you pluck the unit.

01:09:06.893 –> 01:09:13.353
Simon Green: So it’s a wooden board mostly with these little tines nailed to it, and you pluck them with your thumbs.

01:09:13.353 –> 01:09:15.173
Simon Green: I’m not sure exactly where it came from.

01:09:15.173 –> 01:09:19.453
Simon Green: But yeah, kalimba, that was the sound that I recorded on this thing.

01:09:19.453 –> 01:09:20.073
John Kennedy: Right.

01:09:20.073 –> 01:09:23.453
John Kennedy: So could you maybe illustrate that on the track?

01:09:23.453 –> 01:09:25.593
John Kennedy: I mean, you don’t have the different parts, do you?

01:09:25.593 –> 01:09:34.193
Simon Green: But this is just the kalimba with, I mean, yeah, I don’t have the actual original recording, but like this is, that’s the kalimba.

01:09:34.193 –> 01:09:36.873
Simon Green: And I was just, yeah, just the kalimba and a kick drum.

01:09:36.873 –> 01:09:38.853
John Kennedy: And so that’s a little sequence that you just kind of.

01:09:38.853 –> 01:09:39.213
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:09:39.213 –> 01:09:40.973
Simon Green: So I just kind of recorded a load of it.

01:09:40.973 –> 01:09:44.193
Simon Green: And then I just chopped up a couple of parts.

01:09:44.193 –> 01:09:53.913
Simon Green: But really what I was trying to do here initially was I had this drum beat, which was I sampled from a record that I found in a record store in Seattle, I think.

01:09:58.413 –> 01:10:06.833
Simon Green: So the whole idea of the track initially was to take this drum beat and loop it.

01:10:06.833 –> 01:10:13.433
Simon Green: And every transient of that drum break, I was going to edit the kalimba along to it.

01:10:13.433 –> 01:10:22.373
Simon Green: So rather than having things sequenced, I was going to just sort of map the kalimba transients to the transients of that drum break.

01:10:22.773 –> 01:10:24.553
Simon Green: And that was the kind of start of the track.

01:10:24.553 –> 01:10:28.113
Simon Green: So it was just the kalimba and that drum beat.

01:10:28.113 –> 01:10:32.533
Simon Green: And then the next thing that happened was sort of reharmonizing it or rather harmonizing it.

01:10:32.533 –> 01:10:37.833
Simon Green: So I had a Prophet 5, which I bought as like the first piece of gear that I got in New York.

01:10:37.833 –> 01:10:42.213
Simon Green: And just like this, it had this thunderous low end to it.

01:10:42.213 –> 01:10:44.753
Simon Green: So it was just the kalimba and the drum break.

01:10:45.793 –> 01:10:48.373
Simon Green: And then this bass, those three, those kind of three bass notes.

01:10:54.627 –> 01:10:58.767
Simon Green: Yeah, and that was kind of, that was the basis of it.

01:10:58.767 –> 01:11:00.167
Simon Green: It was just really those three things.

01:11:00.167 –> 01:11:03.887
Simon Green: And this, which was these little chime things.

01:11:06.667 –> 01:11:11.747
Simon Green: (*chime*) Which was again, a sort of sample as from a percussion record.

01:11:11.747 –> 01:11:13.807
Simon Green: And I think the tails of those are looped.

01:11:13.807 –> 01:11:20.327
Simon Green: (*chime*) Yeah, you can hear a little bit of a looping, a little bit of a looping.

01:11:20.327 –> 01:11:26.507
John Kennedy: (*chime*) And are they, on the track, are they synchronized with the kalimba notes as well?

01:11:26.507 –> 01:11:30.027
Simon Green: Yeah, they’re almost kind of like a, almost kind of a lead part, really.

01:11:30.027 –> 01:11:37.787
John Kennedy: (*chime*) Yeah, so that’s why it’s so hard to work out what is going on in the track.

01:11:37.787 –> 01:11:43.087
Simon Green: Yeah, and then there’s another thing which is, ah, these things, they’re just labelled tings.

01:11:43.087 –> 01:11:46.427
Simon Green: (*chime*) Which again, it’s like a bell.

01:11:48.327 –> 01:11:54.927
Simon Green: (*chime*) I actually don’t remember where that’s from, but again, it’s probably from the same percussion record that the other thing was from.

01:11:54.927 –> 01:11:56.427
John Kennedy: That’s really interesting.

01:11:56.427 –> 01:12:03.267
John Kennedy: When Cirrus first came out, I could not identify the elements, but it’s such a great combination of elements, isn’t it?

01:12:03.267 –> 01:12:24.567
Simon Green: Yeah, and really, I mean, that kalimba recording, it could have been any part of it, and I think it’s just a lot of time with recording instruments, you just find, I find that it’s just, there’s one bar that’s perfect and the rest of it is a complete mess and once you’ve locked in that thing, then you can’t really hear any other part of it.

01:12:24.567 –> 01:12:28.647
Simon Green: But that was the framework of this whole song.

01:12:28.647 –> 01:12:29.247
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:12:29.247 –> 01:12:33.327
John Kennedy: Can I hear a bit more of the song, of the whole, the finished version?

01:12:34.047 –> 01:12:34.787
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:12:34.787 –> 01:12:42.707
Simon Green: If we actually go to this little breakdown, this is where, because I actually kept that drum break out until a little bit later.

01:12:42.967 –> 01:12:48.527
John Kennedy: Because that’s what I was going to say, because in the first half of the song, you don’t really, it’s not as frenetic as the drum break that you had.

01:12:48.527 –> 01:12:49.967
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:12:49.967 –> 01:12:55.987
Simon Green: I started with the drum break and the kalimba, but it doesn’t actually enter the song until much later on.

01:13:01.547 –> 01:13:05.747
John Kennedy: Yeah, because this whole section is really hypnotic and you get into a trance.

01:13:05.747 –> 01:13:06.947
Simon Green: It’s quite restrained.

01:13:07.407 –> 01:13:16.867
Simon Green: And again, it’s all like the Prophet 5 is doing the bass, but when it gets to the section, I really open up the filter on the bass and that kind of creates a lot more breadth.

01:13:16.867 –> 01:13:20.647
Simon Green: So the bass and the drum break.

01:13:24.147 –> 01:13:30.827
Simon Green: The filter opens up and the drum break comes in and that’s really what creates the sort of rising energy.

01:13:41.667 –> 01:13:43.547
Simon Green: So there’s not a load going on, really.

01:13:43.547 –> 01:13:53.927
Simon Green: It’s just those, the drum break and some other drums, like a kick drum, the Prophet 5 on the bass, and then the kalimba sample and those kind of little chimes.

01:13:54.427 –> 01:13:58.207
Simon Green: A few fills and some other stuff, but mostly just.

01:13:59.707 –> 01:14:04.247
Simon Green: And the thing about this, and it was really like, it happened so fast, this track.

01:14:04.247 –> 01:14:09.407
Simon Green: It happened like in one day, like from start to finish, like one or two days.

01:14:09.407 –> 01:14:17.207
Simon Green: And I was having such a good time making it that I was kind of sad when it was done because I was enjoying it, so enjoying the process so much.

01:14:17.287 –> 01:14:18.607
Simon Green: That’s really good.

01:14:18.607 –> 01:14:25.667
John Kennedy: How long did it take before you went to the shop, bought the kalimba, took it back to the apartment, recorded it?

01:14:25.667 –> 01:14:26.647
John Kennedy: Was that all in the same day?

01:14:26.647 –> 01:14:27.767
Simon Green: That was all in the same day.

01:14:27.767 –> 01:14:28.347
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:14:28.567 –> 01:14:30.887
Simon Green: That all happened just in one afternoon.

01:14:30.887 –> 01:14:31.627
John Kennedy: Brilliant.

01:14:31.627 –> 01:14:32.447
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:14:32.447 –> 01:14:35.747
Simon Green: And then I think by the end of the next day, the whole thing was done.

01:14:35.747 –> 01:14:36.047
John Kennedy: Wow.

01:14:36.047 –> 01:14:36.727
Simon Green: Pretty much.

01:14:36.727 –> 01:14:40.227
John Kennedy: And that drum break, what style of music was that?

01:14:41.127 –> 01:14:43.187
Simon Green: I think it’s from a prog rock record.

01:14:43.187 –> 01:14:43.507
John Kennedy: Is it?

01:14:43.507 –> 01:14:43.727
John Kennedy: Right.

01:14:43.727 –> 01:14:46.387
John Kennedy: Because it’s hard to identify, just that little section.

01:14:46.387 –> 01:14:46.647
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:14:46.647 –> 01:14:47.487
Simon Green: It’s a kind of layer.

01:14:47.487 –> 01:14:53.327
Simon Green: I think it’s just a drum kit and some maybe congas, or chamber or something.

01:14:53.327 –> 01:14:55.267
Simon Green: I don’t know if it’s.

01:14:55.267 –> 01:14:58.127
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:14:58.127 –> 01:15:00.907
John Kennedy: Because it reminds me of quite a few different things.

01:15:00.907 –> 01:15:04.367
John Kennedy: But that could be a Latin thing, it could be a soul thing.

01:15:04.367 –> 01:15:05.107
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:15:05.107 –> 01:15:05.667
John Kennedy: It’s just great.

01:15:05.847 –> 01:15:09.587
Simon Green: Like a sort of fusion, or Santana rock thing, something like that.

01:15:09.587 –> 01:15:10.787
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:15:10.787 –> 01:15:15.567
Simon Green: But there’s actually two versions of this track, and this is the second one which I never released.

01:15:15.567 –> 01:15:17.487
Simon Green: But this is the one I’d play out when I DJ.

01:15:17.487 –> 01:15:22.087
Simon Green: So there’s a point where it switches into a sort of second half.

01:15:22.087 –> 01:15:29.767
Simon Green: That’s the one that came out, and this one just kind of carries on in a more like, it just kind of stays huge and gets bigger as it goes along.

01:15:29.767 –> 01:15:31.687
John Kennedy: The version that you’ve been playing us now.

01:15:31.707 –> 01:15:32.067
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:15:32.067 –> 01:15:32.767
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:15:32.767 –> 01:15:34.287
John Kennedy: So this hasn’t been released?

01:15:34.287 –> 01:15:34.407
Simon Green: No.

01:15:34.747 –> 01:15:36.307
John Kennedy: No, this is your secret.

01:15:36.307 –> 01:15:37.287
Simon Green: This is my secret.

01:15:37.287 –> 01:15:39.107
Simon Green: Yeah, my secret kind of.

01:15:39.107 –> 01:15:41.167
Simon Green: In fact, yeah, I never gave this to anyone.

01:15:41.167 –> 01:15:46.887
Simon Green: I think this is just, this is the version I play when I DJ out, and that’s kind of where it lives.

01:15:46.887 –> 01:15:52.487
John Kennedy: Yeah, because people recognize a song, but you can kind of take it in different directions.

01:15:52.487 –> 01:15:52.747
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:15:53.127 –> 01:16:03.487
Simon Green: I mean, it’s the same song up to a point, and I think in the record, it kind of has the second section where it kind of does something else, and it’s a little mellower, but this version, it just gets bigger and bigger as it goes on.

01:16:03.707 –> 01:16:07.807
Simon Green: So the second half is way more kind of loud and percussive.

01:16:07.827 –> 01:16:09.127
Simon Green: I’m trying to find the point where it changes.

01:16:15.050 –> 01:16:16.870
Simon Green: It’s quite subtle, but it just kind of stays in this.

01:16:30.871 –> 01:16:32.471
Simon Green: Oh yeah, here’s where it would normally change.

01:16:59.893 –> 01:17:02.313
John Kennedy: And that sounds like strings coming in now?

01:17:02.313 –> 01:17:10.013
Simon Green: Yeah, it’s like a high synth, and everything is just really open and compressed, and it just kind of…

01:17:10.013 –> 01:17:21.253
John Kennedy: I’m really interested that you didn’t release that for this version, in the sense that if you’ve created it, it’s brilliant that you’ve got it to use for your other purposes.

01:17:21.253 –> 01:17:23.413
Simon Green: Yeah, I think I kind of like that.

01:17:23.413 –> 01:17:27.753
Simon Green: I mean, there’s a lot of music that I actually haven’t released, that I just play it out, and I don’t know.

01:17:28.073 –> 01:17:31.613
Simon Green: I feel like sometimes the moment has passed to release it.

01:17:31.613 –> 01:17:37.533
Simon Green: But I kind of like that when I’m DJing, you’re only going to hear…

01:17:37.793 –> 01:17:42.433
Simon Green: I don’t sort of like put much DJ stuff online.

01:17:42.433 –> 01:17:47.533
Simon Green: So I think I kind of like that you can only hear that when you hear me DJ.

01:17:47.533 –> 01:17:48.453
Simon Green: And that’s kind of…

01:17:48.453 –> 01:17:50.933
Simon Green: I like keeping it as that for now.

01:17:50.933 –> 01:17:51.693
Simon Green: I don’t know.

01:17:51.693 –> 01:17:53.073
John Kennedy: Yeah, well, I think that sounds great.

01:17:53.073 –> 01:17:54.713
John Kennedy: I mean, it’s an interesting thing, isn’t it?

01:17:54.713 –> 01:18:08.033
John Kennedy: The art of DJing and how much is linked into what you personally create and how much you rely or use that to create your own sound, your own identity, and how much you use other people’s records to DJ with as well.

01:18:08.033 –> 01:18:08.533
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:18:08.533 –> 01:18:10.333
Simon Green: And I do this for other tracks as well.

01:18:10.333 –> 01:18:14.613
Simon Green: I have like different mixes that are just sort of exclusively for when I’m playing out.

01:18:14.613 –> 01:18:21.033
Simon Green: And I think that’s kind of makes it a little bit more special rather than just sort of regurgitating your back catalog when you’re DJing.

01:18:21.033 –> 01:18:22.853
Simon Green: It’s just kind of like, well, here’s a different thing.

01:18:22.853 –> 01:18:24.653
Simon Green: Here’s the thing you know, but it’s not quite that.

01:18:24.653 –> 01:18:26.433
Simon Green: And just making edits is exciting.

01:18:26.553 –> 01:18:30.033
Simon Green: It keeps it exciting for me as well, just to kind of have something a little bit different to play.

01:18:30.033 –> 01:18:33.553
Simon Green: And just it gives tracks a longer life.

01:18:33.553 –> 01:18:38.313
Simon Green: You can kind of, you know, they can have a little bit further to go in that way.

01:18:38.313 –> 01:18:39.193
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:18:39.193 –> 01:18:43.033
John Kennedy: Well, we’re going to delve even further back now in the history of Bonobo.

01:18:43.273 –> 01:18:49.253
John Kennedy: And I think it’ll be interesting because the next track we’re playing is Black Sands from the album of the same title.

01:18:49.253 –> 01:18:54.073
John Kennedy: And it’s a different sound again with different elements going on.

01:18:54.393 –> 01:18:57.833
John Kennedy: And I’ve got a few questions I want to ask you about that when we go there.

01:18:57.833 –> 01:19:02.613
John Kennedy: So we’re going to take another quick break and we’ll be back with the last track today from Bonobo.

01:19:05.313 –> 01:19:11.653
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at from Bonobo is Black Sands, the title track of the album from 2010.

01:19:11.653 –> 01:19:13.953
John Kennedy: So Simon, if you could play us the music.

01:20:33.814 –> 01:20:40.494
John Kennedy: It is Black Sands by Bonobo, and we were just getting into the part of the track where it goes off in another direction.

01:20:40.494 –> 01:20:44.334
John Kennedy: There’s so much going on in Black Sands from 2010.

01:20:44.334 –> 01:20:48.954
John Kennedy: So we’re now going quite a way back, Simon, into your past.

01:20:48.954 –> 01:20:51.294
John Kennedy: And there’s a couple of adjacent questions really.

01:20:51.294 –> 01:20:58.114
John Kennedy: So hello to Dario who got in touch via Patreon with a question with regard to musical training or background.

01:20:58.114 –> 01:21:09.494
John Kennedy: And that kind of relates, I think, to what I was going to ask, because as we get to Black Sands and then look back at the three previous albums, you’d already gone on quite a few different journeys there.

01:21:09.494 –> 01:21:14.994
John Kennedy: And I think back to when you first emerged in 1999, or whether that was when the first release was.

01:21:14.994 –> 01:21:19.554
John Kennedy: Noah, there was a kind of a trip hoppy aspect to what you were doing.

01:21:20.154 –> 01:21:24.694
John Kennedy: And in many ways, the first few releases were all more down tempo.

01:21:24.694 –> 01:21:28.254
John Kennedy: And Noah, did you have a musical training?

01:21:28.254 –> 01:21:29.834
John Kennedy: Did you study piano?

01:21:29.834 –> 01:21:31.014
John Kennedy: Did you study drums?

01:21:31.854 –> 01:21:35.354
John Kennedy: Was there a formal aspect to your knowledge?

01:21:35.354 –> 01:21:37.334
Simon Green: To a degree, yeah, but not really.

01:21:37.334 –> 01:21:40.794
Simon Green: I mean, I come from a very musical family.

01:21:40.794 –> 01:21:42.894
Simon Green: So my dad was a folk musician.

01:21:42.894 –> 01:21:44.974
Simon Green: He was a really good accordion player.

01:21:44.974 –> 01:21:47.434
Simon Green: And my mom was a singer as well.

01:21:47.434 –> 01:21:53.434
Simon Green: And my sisters are both like really, like my younger sister is like really amazing woodwind player.

01:21:53.434 –> 01:21:58.674
Simon Green: So it’s like everybody in the, you know, we had like a lot of music in the house.

01:21:58.734 –> 01:22:01.314
Simon Green: So we had a lot of, we had like a music room in the house.

01:22:01.314 –> 01:22:03.414
Simon Green: And we had like friends who had also come over.

01:22:03.414 –> 01:22:08.434
Simon Green: And my dad had a lot of, he was like in the sort of British folk community.

01:22:08.434 –> 01:22:16.254
Simon Green: So he would be playing gigs every weekend and we would go to like Cecil Sharp House and other places and just be around that a lot.

01:22:16.254 –> 01:22:17.794
Simon Green: So it was kind of-

01:22:17.794 –> 01:22:19.074
John Kennedy: Did you grow up in London then?

01:22:19.174 –> 01:22:22.354
Simon Green: We actually grew up in like just outside of London in like Hampshire.

01:22:22.354 –> 01:22:24.754
Simon Green: Well, it’s not really outside London, it’s a bit further.

01:22:24.754 –> 01:22:25.754
Simon Green: So yeah, kind of in the country.

01:22:25.954 –> 01:22:28.794
Simon Green: And then, yeah, and then sort of moved to Brighton later.

01:22:28.794 –> 01:22:34.754
Simon Green: So yeah, it was kind of like, it was a very like busy kind of musical household.

01:22:34.754 –> 01:22:38.834
Simon Green: There was a lot of stuff going on, especially like at the weekends I go out with my dad.

01:22:38.834 –> 01:22:45.894
Simon Green: I sometimes like sit in the band and play a little bit of guitar, like when I was a teenager with him and his like his folk groups.

01:22:45.894 –> 01:22:46.414
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:22:46.414 –> 01:22:53.614
John Kennedy: I mean, the reason it relates to Black Sands is because Black Sands is full of all this rich instrumentation and that we were just getting a hint of there.

01:22:54.194 –> 01:22:58.734
John Kennedy: And you’ve performed with live bands in various different kind of formations.

01:22:59.534 –> 01:23:06.694
John Kennedy: And so there’s a knowledge and understanding of how to work with other musicians on a stage and in the studio.

01:23:06.694 –> 01:23:15.174
John Kennedy: And I often wondered whether initially when you were creating Terrapin or something like that, it’s kind of quite sample based.

01:23:15.174 –> 01:23:22.794
John Kennedy: And whether once you kind of moved away from that a bit, you wanted to bring in more live instrumentation.

01:23:22.974 –> 01:23:32.654
John Kennedy: That was a natural development, just as you change from Logic to Ableton and that changes how you work and create again.

01:23:32.654 –> 01:23:37.634
John Kennedy: So that just feels as if there have been these different eras of approach from you.

01:23:37.634 –> 01:23:38.194
Simon Green: Yeah, definitely.

01:23:38.194 –> 01:23:44.034
Simon Green: I think prior to anything being released as Bonobo, I was in bands.

01:23:44.034 –> 01:23:51.574
Simon Green: I was in like indie bands playing guitar, playing in the circuit of pubs in North London and Brighton or wherever.

01:23:52.434 –> 01:23:55.094
Simon Green: So I was in like a hundred bands before.

01:23:55.094 –> 01:24:10.814
Simon Green: I think when I got, there’s a certain period in Brighton where I really got into DJing and that era of like, I say like Trip Hop, whatever defined that and drum and bass, and that was when I got really excited about sampling.

01:24:10.814 –> 01:24:17.634
Simon Green: That’s where I discovered that I could just loop drums and put anything in a sampler and just layer up stuff.

01:24:17.634 –> 01:24:23.434
Simon Green: So that was really when I started approaching it from a more beat-making perspective.

01:24:23.434 –> 01:24:28.994
Simon Green: I think those earlier records were essentially kind of, they were like collage records.

01:24:28.994 –> 01:24:30.714
Simon Green: I think that’s essentially what it was.

01:24:30.714 –> 01:24:40.554
Simon Green: I was using the same approach that the Hip Hop records I was listening to like Tribe Called Quest and like that cut and paste era of making beats that way.

01:24:40.654 –> 01:24:54.654
Simon Green: But trying to sort of use sounds that were maybe a little more, I don’t know, a little coming from a sort of slightly different angle, like informed by the music, the kind of the indie music that I was listening to when I was younger.

01:24:54.654 –> 01:24:59.774
Simon Green: And I was always kind of interested in these songs that didn’t quite fit on records within that beat scene.

01:24:59.774 –> 01:25:15.154
Simon Green: There was certain B-sides or certain parts of the record where there was this kind of instrumental cut where something was like really, there was this kind of unexpected element, like somebody was using a violin in a hip-hop track or whatever it was.

01:25:15.154 –> 01:25:17.014
Simon Green: Those were the things that really interested me.

01:25:17.014 –> 01:25:30.874
Simon Green: And sort of like a lot of early Andy Weatherall stuff, and tunes like Smoke Belch, I mean, it’s kind of an ambient classic now, but that kind of from that era, like I was always interested in these slightly kind of off-center moments.

01:25:30.874 –> 01:25:31.454
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:25:31.454 –> 01:25:47.334
John Kennedy: And it’s interesting now in the world of streaming, because I think, you know, it’s meant that your music has a longer life, because all these releases now, I think they’re being rediscovered by different people, and they discover a different era of bonobo.

01:25:47.334 –> 01:25:54.854
John Kennedy: So with Black Sands, this is another kind of era, because you seem to be mixing up more organic sounds on Black Sands.

01:25:54.854 –> 01:26:08.314
Simon Green: Yeah, I think from the third album on, so like Days to Come, that’s when I was like, I just don’t think I’d really approach recording acoustically before, and like actually recording myself playing instruments and incorporating them into the music.

01:26:08.314 –> 01:26:18.514
Simon Green: And I think also, I think the technology was not there yet, because those early records, like I only had, but there wasn’t DAWs then, it was all hardware.

01:26:18.514 –> 01:26:35.274
Simon Green: I was like sequencing the first two records on like an Atari ST And it wasn’t until sort of 2006, where you can actually record lots of audio into a laptop and kind of make, essentially use a laptop as a tape machine, as well as a sequencer.

01:26:35.274 –> 01:26:41.534
Simon Green: And I think that’s when I kind of started like incorporating more playing and more kind of instrumentation in it.

01:26:41.534 –> 01:26:45.834
Simon Green: And then we kind of got to sort of Black Sands, where I moved to London.

01:26:45.834 –> 01:26:49.094
Simon Green: And there was a big shift for me around 2009.

01:26:49.114 –> 01:26:53.654
Simon Green: I was sort of, I feel I’d lost touch with dance music a little bit.

01:26:53.654 –> 01:27:01.194
Simon Green: And I had a few moments which are sort of like, almost like rediscovering how exciting dance music was.

01:27:01.194 –> 01:27:12.334
Simon Green: And I think there was a notable switch in making Black Sands from the beginning, like this stuff, like the track Black Sands and Animals and Stay The Same and The Keeper.

01:27:12.334 –> 01:27:16.354
Simon Green: These were all very kind of more of what I was doing previously.

01:27:16.354 –> 01:27:23.954
Simon Green: And I think there was a process, in the middle of that process of making this record, I sort of fell in love with what was happening in London.

01:27:23.954 –> 01:27:36.214
Simon Green: And there was a really, really interesting like birth or time for music in the UK, especially around 2009, 2010, which kind of changed the trajectory of what I was doing on this record.

01:27:36.214 –> 01:27:38.794
Simon Green: So it kind of almost became like a record of two halves, this one.

01:27:38.794 –> 01:27:43.834
Simon Green: It was like before and after kind of rediscovering dance music really.

01:27:43.834 –> 01:27:45.014
John Kennedy: Yeah, that’s interesting.

01:27:45.014 –> 01:27:49.974
John Kennedy: Do you want to play us a bit more of Black Sands and talk us through what was going on in terms of the ideas going?

01:27:49.974 –> 01:27:50.274
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:27:50.294 –> 01:27:56.794
Simon Green: So the very first thing that happened, like I say with the kalimba thing, it’s like having one instrument sort of spark an idea.

01:27:56.794 –> 01:28:02.834
Simon Green: I got this nylon guitar and I was just sitting in my kitchen and just came up with this little 6’8 pattern.

01:28:03.274 –> 01:28:05.514
Simon Green: I was living very close to where we are now actually.

01:28:05.514 –> 01:28:13.954
Simon Green: I was just living in Dolston and my living room had this really nice tone to it.

01:28:13.954 –> 01:28:17.974
Simon Green: It was like my studio was like basically a bedroom upstairs.

01:28:17.974 –> 01:28:28.894
Simon Green: So I went to record this guitar but the only way to do it was like take mic cables out of the window, out of the top floor window and drop them down and then bring them back into the…

01:28:28.894 –> 01:28:38.514
Simon Green: And it was just me, so I was like running upstairs, setting the preamps, running downstairs, kind of mic recording and making mic adjustments, going back upstairs and listening to it.

01:28:38.514 –> 01:28:40.094
Simon Green: And this kind of went on all day.

01:28:40.094 –> 01:28:41.914
Simon Green: But I eventually got this guitar part.

01:28:50.735 –> 01:28:54.115
Simon Green: So that was the initial part.

01:28:54.115 –> 01:29:06.875
Simon Green: And then at the time, because I was still living in the UK, I kind of amassed a load of gear over the years, and I had a double bass at the time, which I bought in Brighton and had brought up to…

01:29:06.875 –> 01:29:08.715
Simon Green: So yeah, that’s an upright bass.

01:29:08.775 –> 01:29:09.575
John Kennedy: And that’s you playing it.

01:29:09.575 –> 01:29:11.155
Simon Green: That’s me playing, yeah.

01:29:11.155 –> 01:29:12.475
Simon Green: Yeah, this one I just kind of…

01:29:12.475 –> 01:29:13.775
Simon Green: I think that was a contact mic.

01:29:13.775 –> 01:29:17.895
Simon Green: I had a contact mic underneath the bridge of the double bass.

01:29:19.315 –> 01:29:23.455
Simon Green: And then this thing coming in is a mandolin, which I also had lying around.

01:29:24.955 –> 01:29:27.035
Simon Green: A couple of piano chords.

01:29:27.035 –> 01:29:31.695
Simon Green: So this is all just me playing in my house.

01:29:34.015 –> 01:29:35.875
John Kennedy: So recording each part separately?

01:29:35.875 –> 01:29:37.515
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:29:37.515 –> 01:29:38.635
Simon Green: But it’s loop-based, right?

01:29:38.635 –> 01:29:43.555
Simon Green: So I’m recording, I’m sort of getting each part and then sort of like copy and pasting.

01:29:43.555 –> 01:29:49.435
Simon Green: You know, like getting the right take on the double bass until it’s perfect and like that’s the part and now I’m going to like copy it over.

01:29:49.435 –> 01:29:50.135
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:29:50.135 –> 01:29:54.395
Simon Green: So I still sort of building it in this kind of collage-y way.

01:29:54.395 –> 01:30:00.995
Simon Green: And then I had that line, the melody line which was later replayed on the clarinet.

01:30:04.375 –> 01:30:08.315
Simon Green: So I had this line in my head and I played it on a Mellotron plugin at the time.

01:30:08.735 –> 01:30:16.475
Simon Green: So it’s like a demo of this with that line is just played on this like, I don’t know, it’s like a Mellotron sounding thing.

01:30:16.475 –> 01:30:22.015
Simon Green: So I had that as well as a load of horns that come later on.

01:30:22.015 –> 01:30:22.715
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:30:22.715 –> 01:30:23.875
John Kennedy: Should we hear the horns?

01:30:23.875 –> 01:30:24.055
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:30:39.995 –> 01:30:44.935
Simon Green: These guys who are playing the horns now, they’re in my band now.

01:30:44.935 –> 01:30:47.975
Simon Green: This was the first time that we’ve really met and recorded together.

01:30:47.975 –> 01:30:52.375
Simon Green: I was kind of looking for a horn trio to sort of fill this section.

01:30:52.375 –> 01:30:56.835
Simon Green: I was also working on Andrea Triana’s first album at the time.

01:30:56.835 –> 01:31:01.415
Simon Green: Simultaneously, I was working on Black Sands, so I kind of had the same kind of set up in my room.

01:31:01.415 –> 01:31:07.655
Simon Green: It was like guitar amps and horns, so I kind of brought people in to do all of these sessions at once.

01:31:07.655 –> 01:31:11.975
Simon Green: So we recorded everything for Black Sands and everything for Andrea’s record all at the same time.

01:31:11.975 –> 01:31:12.535
John Kennedy: In your house?

01:31:12.535 –> 01:31:12.915
Simon Green: In my house.

01:31:12.915 –> 01:31:13.495
John Kennedy: In Dalston?

01:31:13.495 –> 01:31:14.415
Simon Green: In Dalston, yeah.

01:31:14.415 –> 01:31:16.415
Simon Green: Just in my kitchen mostly.

01:31:16.415 –> 01:31:17.815
John Kennedy: Right.

01:31:17.815 –> 01:31:18.175
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:31:18.195 –> 01:31:21.775
John Kennedy: Brilliant, because it sounds like you’re all in the studio together.

01:31:21.775 –> 01:31:22.335
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:31:22.335 –> 01:31:23.375
Simon Green: It was just layers.

01:31:23.375 –> 01:31:32.795
Simon Green: It was just kind of like, and also like the strings, I’m going to play like, kind of go off the plan a little bit of this one.

01:31:32.795 –> 01:31:38.595
Simon Green: This is the opener of Black Sands and this is one person on the violin.

01:31:38.715 –> 01:31:41.375
Simon Green: So I just had my friend Mike Simmons.

01:31:42.415 –> 01:31:46.775
Simon Green: And all of these strings were kind of layered of just him.

01:31:46.775 –> 01:31:53.115
Simon Green: Just sat on a chair next to me in the studio and we just kind of like layered up all of these strings to make it sound like a bigger ensemble.

01:31:53.115 –> 01:31:56.235
Simon Green: Another thing I do is I play a lot of midi strings.

01:31:56.235 –> 01:31:59.635
Simon Green: It’s like a plugin called Philharmonic or something Philharmonic.

01:31:59.635 –> 01:32:02.615
Simon Green: So like the weight of the strings would all be kind of the midi.

01:32:02.615 –> 01:32:08.715
Simon Green: And then I just do a couple of lines on the top of the live violin to make it sound like the whole ensemble is live.

01:32:08.715 –> 01:32:16.275
Simon Green: But it’s really just one or two layers of violin to make it kind of sound more like an actual ensemble.

01:32:16.275 –> 01:32:19.655
Simon Green: And that’s kind of what was happening in this Black Sands tune as well.

01:32:19.655 –> 01:32:24.935
Simon Green: So there’s live instrumentation sitting on top of a lot of midi.

01:32:24.935 –> 01:32:31.835
Simon Green: But just pushed a little bit higher so you can kind of hear that sort of live take a little bit louder than the midi.

01:32:31.995 –> 01:32:37.995
Simon Green: So it kind of gets this sense of like a bigger body of, because there’s strings in this as well.

01:32:37.995 –> 01:32:43.895
Simon Green: But a lot of them are actually a Melitron pad with a kind of a couple of layers of violin over the top.

01:32:43.895 –> 01:32:47.895
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:32:47.895 –> 01:32:51.615
John Kennedy: And so at that time, I mean, Andrea sings on this record, doesn’t she?

01:32:51.615 –> 01:32:51.975
John Kennedy: She does.

01:32:51.975 –> 01:32:52.675
Simon Green: Yeah, yeah.

01:32:52.675 –> 01:32:59.495
John Kennedy: But you were producing her first album and then obviously, you’ve continued to work with different vocalists over time.

01:33:00.235 –> 01:33:07.915
John Kennedy: And there’s an interesting question from William Card, who got in touch via Patreon, about your approach with vocalists.

01:33:07.915 –> 01:33:18.215
John Kennedy: Because say if we take fragments, William refers to the mini vocalists and instrumentalists on fragments bring such dynamism to your recordings.

01:33:18.215 –> 01:33:19.295
John Kennedy: And how do you approach that?

01:33:19.295 –> 01:33:23.255
John Kennedy: And how do you know when to use them, who to use?

01:33:23.255 –> 01:33:24.575
John Kennedy: How do those things work?

01:33:24.575 –> 01:33:27.395
John Kennedy: I mean, obviously, we’re going back to 2010 as well.

01:33:27.715 –> 01:33:32.675
John Kennedy: So you’ve been evolving this knowledge and this expertise for some time.

01:33:32.675 –> 01:33:33.015
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:33:33.015 –> 01:33:40.295
Simon Green: I mean, the first time I used a vocalist, like the feature on a track was a record before this, with Baika, who’s living in Berlin.

01:33:40.295 –> 01:33:45.915
Simon Green: And I’d heard a record, I think it was on the label Jazzman.

01:33:45.915 –> 01:33:54.455
Simon Green: And it sounded like, as a lot of those kind of 45s around the time, sounded like music from the 60s or 70s.

01:33:54.455 –> 01:33:55.995
Simon Green: And it was like contemporary stuff.

01:33:56.135 –> 01:34:03.535
Simon Green: So I kind of blew my mind when I realized that this record wasn’t sort of 30 years old, but it was actually by people living in Munich.

01:34:03.535 –> 01:34:07.075
Simon Green: So I got in touch with her and she came to Brighton and we recorded a couple of things.

01:34:07.075 –> 01:34:11.615
Simon Green: And it was like, that was the first time I sort of really, I just really like, her voice was insane.

01:34:11.615 –> 01:34:16.455
Simon Green: And I just like, I need to find out who this is and see if she’s down for working, which she was.

01:34:16.455 –> 01:34:17.375
Simon Green: So that was days to come.

01:34:17.375 –> 01:34:24.095
Simon Green: And then with Andrea, we’d sort of, we’d met from friends, I think, just kind of around, she had been doing gigs in London.

01:34:24.955 –> 01:34:29.475
Simon Green: And we kind of, just we had a lot of mutual friends and I just sort of, we hit it off.

01:34:29.475 –> 01:34:36.335
Simon Green: And it seemed like we wanted to work together on some, on her record and simultaneously whilst I was making Black Sands.

01:34:36.335 –> 01:34:38.735
Simon Green: So I was just like, do you want to hop on this tune?

01:34:38.735 –> 01:34:39.835
Simon Green: I have this idea for tunes.

01:34:39.835 –> 01:34:41.275
Simon Green: You want to hop on it?

01:34:41.275 –> 01:34:43.655
Simon Green: So it was a really good nice process to be working.

01:34:44.735 –> 01:34:46.495
Simon Green: It just felt very natural.

01:34:46.495 –> 01:34:55.155
Simon Green: And then sort of later on, I feel like I sort of reaching out to other vocalists that I wanted to try and see if people were interested.

01:34:55.155 –> 01:34:59.455
Simon Green: I mean, the next record, North Borders, I managed to get Erika Badu on a track.

01:34:59.455 –> 01:35:12.275
Simon Green: And I kind of met her briefly and through some very like, yeah, just some like sort of a few gentle emails, we kind of got her to record something for the album, which was great.

01:35:12.275 –> 01:35:14.015
John Kennedy: Which must have seemed like a coup.

01:35:14.015 –> 01:35:15.935
Simon Green: It did, yeah, absolutely.

01:35:15.935 –> 01:35:16.895
Simon Green: Yeah.

01:35:17.175 –> 01:35:22.395
Simon Green: And that happened, I was in New York and she was in Dallas where she was living at the time.

01:35:22.395 –> 01:35:28.815
Simon Green: So I would get parts of the, I’d get like a verse at a time over the course of a few weeks.

01:35:28.815 –> 01:35:35.815
John Kennedy: And do you really only reach out to vocalists when you come up with something that you think, I’d love to hear somebody singing?

01:35:35.815 –> 01:35:36.135
John Kennedy: Yeah, definitely.

01:35:36.675 –> 01:35:46.975
Simon Green: I kind of have something in my, if I have someone in my mind, I think this would be, I’d love to work with them, but I don’t want to approach them without anything to offer.

01:35:46.975 –> 01:35:54.815
Simon Green: So I feel like in my head, I’m sometimes working on something, I’m like, this could really, I could hear this person on this track.

01:35:54.815 –> 01:36:00.475
Simon Green: So I’m going to sort of work on it, on the assumption that they might be into listening to it.

01:36:00.635 –> 01:36:04.335
Simon Green: And then quite a few times it’s worked out.

01:36:04.335 –> 01:36:09.375
John Kennedy: Yeah, we have some questions that we ask everybody who comes on Tape Notes.

01:36:09.375 –> 01:36:16.575
John Kennedy: We also have some more Patreon questions to ask you, but maybe we’ll round up Black Sands with another section from Black Sands.

01:36:16.575 –> 01:36:19.655
Simon Green: Let’s just round to the end, a blast to the end, I guess.

01:37:20.057 –> 01:37:22.257
John Kennedy: I’m really glad that we got to talk about Black Sands.

01:37:22.257 –> 01:37:37.537
John Kennedy: I think it’s such a rich part of your musical journey, you know, the way that you’ve explored so many different ways of approaching music and being able to realize things with real instruments, go back to working with Ableton and doing something different again.

01:37:37.537 –> 01:37:41.357
John Kennedy: No, it’s kind of a constant evolution and exploration, it seems.

01:37:41.357 –> 01:37:48.597
Simon Green: Made me feel quite nostalgic, actually, listening to that, because we’re in kind of basically like just a few hundred meters from where I made this record.

01:37:49.557 –> 01:37:51.397
John Kennedy: So it sounds like you’ve lived in a lot of different places.

01:37:51.417 –> 01:37:52.577
John Kennedy: You lived in London for a while.

01:37:52.577 –> 01:37:56.757
Simon Green: Yeah, Brighton, London, New York, and now Los Angeles.

01:37:56.757 –> 01:37:57.517
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:37:57.517 –> 01:37:59.057
John Kennedy: What comes out tops?

01:37:59.057 –> 01:37:59.537
Simon Green: I don’t know.

01:38:00.257 –> 01:38:04.177
Simon Green: I’m really enjoying, I love where I live.

01:38:04.177 –> 01:38:07.597
Simon Green: I really enjoy London a lot every time I come here.

01:38:07.597 –> 01:38:12.077
Simon Green: So I think it’s like keeping a foot in London is like really important.

01:38:12.077 –> 01:38:16.317
Simon Green: I think I’ve been sort of spending a bit more time here, especially like over the summer.

01:38:19.417 –> 01:38:21.617
Simon Green: I can’t leave London alone forever.

01:38:21.617 –> 01:38:22.777
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:38:22.777 –> 01:38:28.677
John Kennedy: Travel seems to be such an important part of your creativity in a way.

01:38:28.677 –> 01:38:29.637
Simon Green: Yeah, absolutely.

01:38:29.737 –> 01:38:31.757
Simon Green: I’m planning to go and spend some time.

01:38:31.757 –> 01:38:42.377
Simon Green: On the six months off that I’m going to write a new record, I’m going to go and spend a month in Japan and just be somewhere rural and just write music every day and see what happens.

01:38:42.377 –> 01:38:43.277
John Kennedy: Fascinating.

01:38:43.277 –> 01:38:45.337
John Kennedy: That links in nicely to our first question.

01:38:45.817 –> 01:38:54.857
John Kennedy: The Midchat back has also got in touch by Patreon on, which is about routine and whether you have a daily routine in making music.

01:38:54.857 –> 01:38:57.877
John Kennedy: If so, what does it look like?

01:38:57.877 –> 01:38:59.437
Simon Green: I’m quite disorganized really.

01:38:59.437 –> 01:39:01.337
Simon Green: I’d like to have more of a sort of discipline.

01:39:01.337 –> 01:39:02.317
Simon Green: Well, no, I don’t know.

01:39:02.317 –> 01:39:09.597
Simon Green: I feel I am quite disciplined when it comes to actually committing to making music, but I find that I’m more productive in the morning.

01:39:09.597 –> 01:39:20.157
Simon Green: I wake up and before I do anything, I’ll just switch on some machines and make some coffee, and that tends to be the most productive part of the day for me.

01:39:20.157 –> 01:39:25.217
Simon Green: I have a window of two or three hours where I can just noodle around without-

01:39:25.217 –> 01:39:26.217
John Kennedy: Is this early morning?

01:39:26.217 –> 01:39:27.657
John Kennedy: Is this as the sun rises?

01:39:28.317 –> 01:39:29.497
Simon Green: No, never that early.

01:39:29.497 –> 01:39:35.897
Simon Green: I mean, maybe it’s just all the traveling, but I’m a terrible insomniac, so I rarely sleep well.

01:39:36.357 –> 01:39:38.337
Simon Green: I rarely wake up rested.

01:39:38.337 –> 01:39:44.477
Simon Green: I just get out of bed and I have five hours, and then the energy crash starts.

01:39:44.477 –> 01:39:46.637
Simon Green: So yeah, I mean, it’s never that early.

01:39:46.637 –> 01:39:52.117
Simon Green: But I mean, I don’t know, like eight to nine, that’s kind of like when I’m up and about.

01:39:52.377 –> 01:39:52.737
Simon Green: That’s good.

01:39:52.737 –> 01:39:58.437
Simon Green: I think, yeah, for like not having a real job, I think that’s all right.

01:39:58.437 –> 01:39:59.977
Simon Green: And then, yeah, so that’s it.

01:39:59.977 –> 01:40:03.817
Simon Green: Most of the time in the morning, and then when it comes to, I think there’s two processes, right?

01:40:03.817 –> 01:40:09.117
Simon Green: There’s writing and there’s editing, and I think there’s this moment where everything just sort of falls out.

01:40:09.117 –> 01:40:16.757
Simon Green: It’s just kind of like opening a portal, and you just have to capture what comes through this portal, and then editing is like a second part.

01:40:16.757 –> 01:40:27.117
Simon Green: So probably what I do is I write stuff in the morning, and I’ll have ideas, and I’ll get as much down as I can, and then later in the day, I’ll come back and I’ll start editing.

01:40:27.117 –> 01:40:35.837
Simon Green: Maybe it’s stuff I’ve done previously or stuff I’ve done that morning, but that’s the more admin side of mouse pushing, just moving stuff around.

01:40:36.997 –> 01:40:39.037
Simon Green: But that’s the process.

01:40:39.037 –> 01:40:39.637
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:40:39.637 –> 01:40:43.297
John Kennedy: Well, it sounds like it’s a routine of some sort.

01:40:43.637 –> 01:40:44.657
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:40:44.657 –> 01:40:45.757
Simon Green: Sometimes I don’t do anything.

01:40:45.757 –> 01:40:50.377
Simon Green: Sometimes I’ll set aside time to go in the studio, and I’m just not feeling it.

01:40:51.577 –> 01:40:55.477
Simon Green: Having a creative routine is difficult, but sometimes it’s just not happening.

01:40:55.477 –> 01:41:07.377
Simon Green: Sometimes when you’re supposed to be doing other things, that’s when you have ideas, and I kind of end up, I call my phone on silent and people ask me, I’m supposed to be doing all this other stuff, and I’m just ignoring it.

01:41:07.477 –> 01:41:09.697
Simon Green: Sometimes that’s when the best stuff happens as well.

01:41:09.697 –> 01:41:11.797
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:41:11.797 –> 01:41:27.097
John Kennedy: With regard to gear, we always ask people about what instrument or gear or technology that they’re really enjoying, and VDMR has gone into us to say, I would love to know what VSTs and plugins that you’re loving at the moment, and how you start tracks before even thinking about the arrangement.

01:41:27.917 –> 01:41:29.797
Simon Green: Oh, okay.

01:41:29.797 –> 01:41:36.437
Simon Green: At the minute, there’s some stuff from Slate and Ash from Bristol that I love.

01:41:36.437 –> 01:41:43.557
Simon Green: They have its contact libraries, but it’s all this textural, orchestral recorded instruments.

01:41:43.657 –> 01:41:49.797
Simon Green: There’s one called Landforms, which is basically orchestral library, but it’s really abstract.

01:41:49.797 –> 01:41:54.097
Simon Green: It’s very processed stuff, so that’s great.

01:41:54.097 –> 01:42:08.057
Simon Green: There’s another one they have called Choreographs and Cycles, which are like choreographs, it’s like a sort of a pegiator sequencer thing, but it’s like really deep and finding ideas on that is really fun.

01:42:08.057 –> 01:42:09.297
Simon Green: You can just open it.

01:42:09.297 –> 01:42:17.737
Simon Green: There’s another one, they have cycles which you can put your own audio in and it’s like a granular looping delay thing.

01:42:17.737 –> 01:42:19.137
Simon Green: So I’m really into that stuff at the minute.

01:42:19.137 –> 01:42:21.197
Simon Green: Those ones jump off the top of my head.

01:42:21.197 –> 01:42:22.597
John Kennedy: That sounds good.

01:42:22.597 –> 01:42:24.097
John Kennedy: We always ask people about advice.

01:42:25.757 –> 01:42:27.437
John Kennedy: Tom Bardman has chimed in with this.

01:42:27.437 –> 01:42:33.597
John Kennedy: Do you have any advice for small artists trying to reach good or big labels and break through?

01:42:33.597 –> 01:42:35.197
Simon Green: Man, I don’t know.

01:42:35.197 –> 01:42:40.977
Simon Green: I feel it’s such a different era now and I don’t know what I would do if I was starting out now.

01:42:40.977 –> 01:42:49.037
Simon Green: But I think just work on just finding your own voice and finding people that connect with it.

01:42:49.717 –> 01:42:55.777
Simon Green: I think a genuine organic following is worth everything really.

01:42:55.777 –> 01:43:02.977
Simon Green: Just sort of, it sounds a little cliche, but just kind of stick to it, sort of double down on what you’re doing and just stick to sort of finding your audience with it.

01:43:02.977 –> 01:43:03.797
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:43:04.057 –> 01:43:04.497
John Kennedy: It’s tricky.

01:43:04.697 –> 01:43:18.217
John Kennedy: I think it’s really interesting though that as a solo artist, you’ve managed to change and mutate so many times and work with lots of other people and then carry on on your own.

01:43:18.217 –> 01:43:25.497
John Kennedy: It’s hard to create that concentration and that focus on what you’re doing, or is it?

01:43:25.497 –> 01:43:25.917
Simon Green: No.

01:43:25.917 –> 01:43:35.877
Simon Green: I mean, it always just feels like I’m trying not to lean into an idea of what it is that I am.

01:43:35.877 –> 01:43:54.777
Simon Green: I think I’m just sort of being as exploratory now as I ever was, and I think remaining excited about everything, remaining excited about culture, about music, about art, about never getting to this point where all the old days were better, or people don’t do stuff like they used to.

01:43:54.777 –> 01:43:58.457
Simon Green: I think that I don’t like that mentality, and that’s something I’ve tried to avoid.

01:43:58.457 –> 01:44:13.737
Simon Green: I remember when I was starting out, there were some more cynical older producers and DJs who were moaning about people not knowing their history and stuff’s not what it used to be, and what is this new shit that’s happening?

01:44:14.257 –> 01:44:18.157
Simon Green: I made a note to myself then to just be like, I never want to be like that.

01:44:18.417 –> 01:44:24.237
Simon Green: I just want to like remain excited and remain open minded about everything that’s happening.

01:44:24.237 –> 01:44:27.397
Simon Green: And there’s always good music and there’s always good art.

01:44:27.397 –> 01:44:37.377
Simon Green: And if you’re thinking that things used to be better in the old days, then you’re just not looking hard enough for that exciting kind of frontier of what’s happening.

01:44:37.377 –> 01:44:39.537
John Kennedy: Yeah, that’s a really good point.

01:44:39.537 –> 01:44:43.217
John Kennedy: Simon, thank you so much for coming in and joining us for this episode of Tape Notes.

01:44:43.217 –> 01:44:44.397
John Kennedy: It’s been really, really interesting.

01:44:44.937 –> 01:44:49.277
John Kennedy: And yeah, a real treat to meet you and discuss your music.

01:44:49.277 –> 01:44:51.017
John Kennedy: We should go out with one more song.

01:44:51.017 –> 01:44:52.417
John Kennedy: What should we go for?

01:44:52.417 –> 01:44:56.797
John Kennedy: Something old, something new, like an outro tune.

01:44:56.797 –> 01:44:59.277
John Kennedy: I mean, obviously, there’s 20 years of stuff.

01:44:59.277 –> 01:45:00.977
Simon Green: That’s a lot.

01:45:00.977 –> 01:45:05.877
John Kennedy: I mean, normally what we do is because we’re concentrating on somebody’s new album, we just say, oh, let’s play another track from the album.

01:45:05.877 –> 01:45:07.917
Simon Green: But we can go anywhere you want.

01:45:07.917 –> 01:45:08.577
Simon Green: Let’s do this one.

01:45:08.577 –> 01:45:10.877
Simon Green: This is another one from Black Sands.

01:45:10.877 –> 01:45:17.297
Simon Green: This is one that we talked about earlier about having people in the room telling you that something’s good or something’s not working.

01:45:17.757 –> 01:45:20.757
Simon Green: This was a beat that I had from the same thing when I was living in Dalston.

01:45:20.757 –> 01:45:25.477
Simon Green: I didn’t really think was, I thought it was a little bit of a disposable beat.

01:45:25.477 –> 01:45:29.597
Simon Green: Then my friend came around and was like, this is the one you should pursue this as a thing.

01:45:29.597 –> 01:45:32.017
Simon Green: It became this tune, Eyes Down.

01:45:32.017 –> 01:45:33.917
Simon Green: Then I later got Andrea to sing on it.

01:45:34.717 –> 01:45:37.397
Simon Green: Yeah, maybe this is the one.

01:45:37.397 –> 01:45:38.097
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:45:38.097 –> 01:45:38.957
John Kennedy: Thanks again, Simon.

01:45:38.957 –> 01:45:40.737
John Kennedy: This is Eyes Down by Bonobo.

01:46:08.067 –> 01:46:13.307
John Kennedy: Thank you for listening, and in particular, thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on Patreon.

01:46:13.307 –> 01:46:17.827
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01:46:17.827 –> 01:46:25.827
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01:46:25.827 –> 01:46:29.607
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01:46:29.607 –> 01:46:38.307
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01:46:38.307 –> 01:46:39.847
John Kennedy: Once again, thank you for listening.

01:46:39.847 –> 01:46:41.187
John Kennedy: Until next time, goodbye.