Full Transcript:

00:00:00.660 –> 00:00:01.740
John Kennedy: Hello, welcome to Tape Notes.

00:00:01.740 –> 00:00:02.680
John Kennedy: I hope you’re well.

00:00:02.680 –> 00:00:04.600
John Kennedy: We have got a new episode for you.

00:00:04.600 –> 00:00:14.580
John Kennedy: I caught up with Alex O’Connor, aka Rex Orange County, along with producers Jim Reed and Teo Halm, to talk about Rex’s brand new album, The Alexander Technique.

00:00:14.580 –> 00:00:19.940
John Kennedy: Alex and Jim joined me in the studio, and Teo dialed in remotely from his LA studio.

00:00:19.940 –> 00:00:25.480
John Kennedy: And it was fantastic to see how all three of them approach songwriting and producing in such different ways.

00:00:25.480 –> 00:00:32.220
John Kennedy: They each bring such different things to the table, but are all able to extract the best out of each other and other various musicians on the record.

00:00:32.220 –> 00:00:36.280
John Kennedy: It was fantastic to see that chemistry that they have together, and they have it in abundance.

00:00:36.280 –> 00:00:37.820
John Kennedy: It’s always a joy to see that.

00:00:37.820 –> 00:00:45.560
John Kennedy: Unfortunately, our four-man podcast became a three-man podcast midway through when we lost our connection with Teo over the Atlantic.

00:00:45.560 –> 00:00:51.020
John Kennedy: But thank you to Alex, Teo, Jim and their team for their patience while we tried to get things sorted.

00:00:51.020 –> 00:00:55.660
John Kennedy: If you’re listening on Friday, when this episode comes out, The Alexander Technique is out today.

00:00:55.660 –> 00:00:58.340
John Kennedy: So make sure you listen to the album in all its glory.

00:00:58.340 –> 00:00:59.180
John Kennedy: It’s quite an epic.

00:00:59.560 –> 00:01:04.460
John Kennedy: Thanks to the Miloco team at the Pool Studio for hosting the conversation and their help throughout the day.

00:01:04.460 –> 00:01:06.020
John Kennedy: What an amazing space that is.

00:01:06.020 –> 00:01:07.260
John Kennedy: It’s always brilliant to go there.

00:01:07.260 –> 00:01:08.000
John Kennedy: I love it.

00:01:08.000 –> 00:01:09.840
John Kennedy: And the artists always love it as well.

00:01:09.840 –> 00:01:14.540
John Kennedy: The full video episode with Alex, Jim and Teo will be up on the Tape Notes Patreon page.

00:01:14.540 –> 00:01:19.260
John Kennedy: And more highlight videos will be coming out on YouTube and Instagram throughout the week.

00:01:19.260 –> 00:01:22.700
John Kennedy: Thank you also to Tape It who are currently partnering with us.

00:01:22.700 –> 00:01:28.320
John Kennedy: Tape It is a recording app for iPhone with some brilliant features specifically tailored for musicians and songwriters.

00:01:28.720 –> 00:01:36.640
John Kennedy: You can download Tape It for free using the link in the show notes or get 50% off Tape It Pro using the code Tapenotes.

00:01:36.640 –> 00:01:38.480
John Kennedy: More on them later in the show.

00:01:38.480 –> 00:01:41.380
John Kennedy: But now without further ado, let’s get started.

00:01:47.653 –> 00:01:53.553
John Kennedy: Hello and welcome to Tape Notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

00:01:53.553 –> 00:02:00.553
John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

00:02:00.553 –> 00:02:07.013
John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

00:02:13.415 –> 00:02:25.415
John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tape Notes is Rex Orange County, with producers Jim Reed and Teo Halm to talk about how they wrote, recorded, and produced the album, The Alexander Technique.

00:02:25.415 –> 00:02:31.815
John Kennedy: Alex O’Connor, better known as Rex Orange County, is an English singer-songwriter and multi-instrumentalist.

00:02:31.815 –> 00:02:39.595
John Kennedy: After developing a love for music and learning several instruments, including drums, guitar, and piano, at 16, he attended the Brit School.

00:02:39.595 –> 00:02:49.795
John Kennedy: There he began producing music of his own, and having adopted the name Rex Orange County, in 2015 he released his debut album, Bcos U Will Never B Free, on Soundcloud.

00:02:49.795 –> 00:02:53.735
John Kennedy: The album’s quirky, lo-fi style quickly gained attention.

00:02:53.735 –> 00:02:59.075
John Kennedy: It was followed by the singles, Best Friend and Sunflower, both of which became platinum selling.

00:02:59.075 –> 00:03:13.015
John Kennedy: His second album, Apricot Princess, released in 2017, marked a significant step forward, reaching the top 10 of Billboard’s independent albums chart, and earning him a nomination for the BBC Sound of the Year poll.

00:03:13.015 –> 00:03:23.335
John Kennedy: Around this time, he gained further recognition through his collaborations on Tyler the Creator’s Flower Boy album, with the tracks Boredom and Forward propelling him onto the international stage.

00:03:23.335 –> 00:03:32.175
John Kennedy: Since then, Alex has released three further studio albums, with his fourth record, 2022’s Who Cares?, topping the UK album charts.

00:03:32.175 –> 00:03:45.435
John Kennedy: His latest, The Alexander Technique, is a more personal and stripped back project that explores his struggles with the pain and mental health issues that have sat beneath the surface since he achieved global success as a teenager.

00:03:45.435 –> 00:03:49.695
John Kennedy: Jim Reed is a London-based producer, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist.

00:03:49.695 –> 00:03:59.935
John Kennedy: A graduate of the Brit School, Jim began his career as a drummer, lending his talents to a variety of artists including Ray and Rex Orange County, both in the studio and on stage.

00:03:59.935 –> 00:04:09.075
John Kennedy: It was at the Brit School where he first crossed paths with Alex, forming a partnership that has flourished over the years, with Jim playing a crucial role in Alex’s musical journey.

00:04:09.075 –> 00:04:21.735
John Kennedy: Beyond drumming in his live band and serving as Rex’s musical director, Jim has begun to take on more production-based roles, becoming co-executive producer for Alex’s most recent release, The Alexander Technique.

00:04:21.735 –> 00:04:26.255
John Kennedy: Teo Halm is an American record producer, singer, songwriter and actor.

00:04:26.255 –> 00:04:35.895
John Kennedy: Teo’s career initially began in theatre, with roles in productions such as The Sound of Music and The Music Man, before making his film debut in 2014’s Earth to Echo.

00:04:35.895 –> 00:04:43.895
John Kennedy: However, his deep passion for music production and songwriting led him to continue honing those skills alongside his acting.

00:04:43.895 –> 00:04:51.775
John Kennedy: In 2016, he began working as a producer on releases from various artists, including Kevin Abstract and Omar Apolo.

00:04:51.775 –> 00:05:04.355
John Kennedy: Significant recognition came in 2019 when he co-wrote and produced Rosalia’s Latin Grammy-winning hit Con Altura and also contributed to Beyoncé’s Grammy-nominated The Lion King, The Gift.

00:05:04.355 –> 00:05:19.755
John Kennedy: Since then, he has shared his production talents with numerous high-profile artists, producing and writing tracks with Drake, Troye Sivan and Sanfer, working on SZA’s recent chart-topping album SOS and executive producing Omar Apolo’s record God Said No.

00:05:19.755 –> 00:05:25.375
John Kennedy: Teo’s most recent work sees him team up with Rex Orange County in a partnership between LA and London.

00:05:26.215 –> 00:05:33.835
John Kennedy: Today, I’m at Meloko’s The Pool Studio, where I’m joined by Alex and Jim, and Teo joins us remotely from his studio in LA.

00:05:33.835 –> 00:05:38.315
John Kennedy: But what better way to start our conversation than by hearing something from the record.

00:05:38.315 –> 00:05:39.755
John Kennedy: This is The Table.

00:06:22.435 –> 00:06:27.515
John Kennedy: It is The Table by Rex Orange County from the album The Alexander Technique.

00:06:27.515 –> 00:06:34.415
John Kennedy: And I’m very pleased to say that I am sat in a studio, The Pool in Meloko in London, with the creators of that song.

00:06:34.415 –> 00:06:40.615
John Kennedy: We have Alex aka Rex Orange County, or Alexander James O’Connor to give you a full title.

00:06:40.615 –> 00:06:41.415
John Kennedy: Hello, Alex.

00:06:41.415 –> 00:06:42.415
Alex James O’Connor: Hello, thanks for having me.

00:06:42.415 –> 00:06:43.875
John Kennedy: We also have Jim Reed.

00:06:43.875 –> 00:06:47.615
John Kennedy: Jim, I’m giving everybody their full names just at this section.

00:06:47.615 –> 00:06:48.315
Jim Reed: I love it.

00:06:48.315 –> 00:06:48.995
John Kennedy: Yeah, that’s good.

00:06:48.995 –> 00:06:57.195
John Kennedy: And across the Atlantic, in Los Angeles, California, we have Teo Halm sat at a computer screen, ready to talk to us.

00:06:57.195 –> 00:06:57.975
John Kennedy: Hello, Teo.

00:06:57.975 –> 00:06:59.235
Teo Halm: Hi.

00:06:59.235 –> 00:07:07.615
John Kennedy: So the special relationship continues between the US and the UK as we talk about the Alexander Technique today.

00:07:07.635 –> 00:07:10.435
John Kennedy: And how did it all come about, Alex?

00:07:10.435 –> 00:07:11.375
John Kennedy: What happened?

00:07:12.655 –> 00:07:15.775
Alex James O’Connor: It’s been in the works for quite a while, honestly.

00:07:15.775 –> 00:07:19.095
Alex James O’Connor: I started working on it in 2020 in the pandemic.

00:07:19.095 –> 00:07:22.675
Alex James O’Connor: It was honestly like it was a pandemic beginning.

00:07:22.675 –> 00:07:33.075
Alex James O’Connor: And as like 2019, I had the idea of the title, or maybe even before that actually, but I knew that it would be named that, and I knew that it would be longer than anything I’d made before.

00:07:33.075 –> 00:07:36.015
Alex James O’Connor: And the plan was to just make something as expensive as possible.

00:07:36.015 –> 00:07:43.215
Alex James O’Connor: And yeah, in the past, I’d always been very methodical, and I’ve always been very much like 10 songs is a great length.

00:07:43.235 –> 00:07:51.595
Alex James O’Connor: And some of my favorite albums are very long, but there’s something that’s very satisfying about a 10 song album that I had fulfilled, you know, a few of them.

00:07:51.595 –> 00:07:57.995
Alex James O’Connor: And it got to a point where I was like, I’d really like to know what it’s like to dig deeper and see what happens if you just try more and more.

00:07:57.995 –> 00:08:01.075
Alex James O’Connor: And this is literally the result of that.

00:08:01.075 –> 00:08:03.195
Alex James O’Connor: And yeah, it’s not just a blueprint.

00:08:03.195 –> 00:08:09.275
Alex James O’Connor: It was much more like it was many, many songs made and had to bring it back down to the number that it is, you know.

00:08:09.335 –> 00:08:12.975
Alex James O’Connor: But it was very much an experimental few years.

00:08:12.975 –> 00:08:33.895
Alex James O’Connor: And, you know, it’s a lot lyrically that is over those four years, but it’s also more so, I would say, musically and production in the sound, trying to create something more interesting, trying not to repeat myself and trying to expand the world that I’d already started in, but leaning more into my taste over these last four years and then changing up a bit, I think.

00:08:33.895 –> 00:08:34.475
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

00:08:34.475 –> 00:08:43.455
John Kennedy: Because it is pretty epic, 16 songs in all, and, you know, epic instrumentation in different places, and yet very intimate as well at times.

00:08:43.455 –> 00:08:48.595
John Kennedy: I mean, The Table is a good example, and that just, you know, it’s just you and the guitar for much of the song.

00:08:48.595 –> 00:08:54.195
Alex James O’Connor: For sure, there’s a few on there that are literally just piano and vocal, organ and vocal, it’s like super sparse at times.

00:08:54.195 –> 00:09:02.595
John Kennedy: And in terms of realizing those ideas, so on your left and my right is the one and only Jim Reed, who you’ve worked with for many years.

00:09:02.595 –> 00:09:07.075
Alex James O’Connor: Indeed, about nine years now, 10 years, well, yeah, eight or nine years, something like that.

00:09:07.075 –> 00:09:07.975
Jim Reed: Yeah, it’s terrifying.

00:09:07.975 –> 00:09:24.335
Alex James O’Connor: In 20, yeah, we will have known each other for 10 years this year, and worked together for, I’d say, nine years playing drums in the band, but yeah, and then we’ve sort of like, it was, yeah, 2021, so three years ago, we started actually properly, we’d made the first song, we’d been making music, kind of trying to make things for a while.

00:09:24.335 –> 00:09:25.355
Jim Reed: Yeah, on and off, for sure.

00:09:25.355 –> 00:09:38.155
Alex James O’Connor: I feel like it was like a couple of years, always like beginning ideas, but never like a full thing until one of the songs we’re gonna get into, but yeah, it was initially just drums, and then you’ve got yourself in your production bag these days.

00:09:38.155 –> 00:09:48.535
Jim Reed: Trying, I think it was, when COVID hit, my main sort of, I guess, source of income was playing live, and then there were just no shows.

00:09:49.075 –> 00:10:02.395
Jim Reed: And I’d always been making ideas on my laptop from like college days, and I realized that COVID was just gonna be a great opportunity for me to sit down and just make things every day.

00:10:02.395 –> 00:10:03.535
Jim Reed: So that’s kind of what I did.

00:10:03.535 –> 00:10:21.175
Jim Reed: And then I thought if I really wanna go and I’ll get a studio or like start renting a studio, and I don’t know if it’s too early to get into it, but I think it was a funny way that we all first started working together, which was, I hadn’t seen Alex in a while.

00:10:21.175 –> 00:10:23.015
Jim Reed: I hadn’t seen Teo in ages.

00:10:23.015 –> 00:10:26.715
Jim Reed: And me and Alex were out for lunch near his.

00:10:26.715 –> 00:10:43.555
Jim Reed: And then just by chance, Teo was in town, and we get up from lunch and Teo is at the next restaurant, looking like something out of a Ralph Lauren 2009 advert with a little neckerchief on reading a book, just eating pasta on his own in Notting Hill.

00:10:43.555 –> 00:10:44.535
Jim Reed: Very, very nice.

00:10:45.135 –> 00:10:51.935
Jim Reed: I know we will go back to Alex’s house and then I mean, we can get into that later, but so, so clearly you already knew Teo then.

00:10:51.935 –> 00:10:52.615
Jim Reed: Yeah, yeah.

00:10:52.615 –> 00:10:59.055
Teo Halm: So for a while, well, if I may, I used to like I went on a family vacation once to Belize.

00:10:59.055 –> 00:11:06.835
Teo Halm: And this is a long time ago, probably like at least seven, eight years ago.

00:11:06.835 –> 00:11:16.535
Teo Halm: And Alex’s first album, Because You’ll Never B Free, that was the only album that I had downloaded on my phone when a hurricane hit.

00:11:16.535 –> 00:11:19.355
Teo Halm: And we had to like evacuate, it was this whole crazy thing.

00:11:19.355 –> 00:11:21.375
Teo Halm: And that was the only album I had.

00:11:21.375 –> 00:11:23.595
Teo Halm: And it was my favorite album and I was so inspired by it.

00:11:23.595 –> 00:11:25.655
Teo Halm: And I was just like listening to it back.

00:11:25.655 –> 00:11:31.755
Teo Halm: And then Alex and I would, we would talk over Twitter.

00:11:31.755 –> 00:11:33.755
Teo Halm: And I was just a fan and I would just hit him up.

00:11:33.755 –> 00:11:36.355
Teo Halm: And then one day he was like, what’s up?

00:11:36.355 –> 00:11:41.875
Teo Halm: We started talking and every time Alex, you know, he’d be in LA on a show.

00:11:41.875 –> 00:11:44.195
Teo Halm: We would just hang out.

00:11:44.195 –> 00:11:47.815
Teo Halm: And yeah, I decided to come to London.

00:11:47.815 –> 00:11:51.615
Teo Halm: I figured that we were going to hang, but there was no real like idea to make music or anything.

00:11:51.615 –> 00:11:55.015
Teo Halm: It was more like, oh, we’re finally going to get to hang in your stomping grounds.

00:11:55.015 –> 00:11:59.275
Teo Halm: I don’t even know if we were planning to meet, but I was just getting lunch one day and yeah, I see these two dudes walk up to me.

00:11:59.275 –> 00:12:01.335
Teo Halm: And from my perspective, he saw Ralph Lauren ad.

00:12:01.335 –> 00:12:05.875
Teo Halm: I see these two dudes like strutting up, like looking all cool, I’m like, what the hell?

00:12:07.655 –> 00:12:09.815
Teo Halm: Did we go upstairs then, like right after that?

00:12:09.815 –> 00:12:12.395
Alex James O’Connor: It was kind of, yeah, we just started hanging that day and I’m pretty sure we wrote that.

00:12:12.395 –> 00:12:13.535
Alex James O’Connor: Was it that day?

00:12:13.535 –> 00:12:14.635
Alex James O’Connor: That same day, yeah.

00:12:14.635 –> 00:12:16.435
Alex James O’Connor: But it had been many years in the making.

00:12:16.435 –> 00:12:17.495
Teo Halm: All right, yeah.

00:12:17.495 –> 00:12:22.155
Teo Halm: Oh no, cause was in, did there be, was that the first thing?

00:12:22.155 –> 00:12:24.835
Alex James O’Connor: I don’t know, me and you, basically, Teo had come to town.

00:12:24.955 –> 00:12:29.915
Alex James O’Connor: We’d all known each other for some years and Jim had been with them for some years and I’d come to LA and played a bunch.

00:12:29.915 –> 00:12:34.235
Alex James O’Connor: But that time was just like, it just wasn’t in the, sometimes you put the pressure on making it a little bit.

00:12:34.235 –> 00:12:41.355
Alex James O’Connor: Making music sometimes is kind of a little bit, if you’re like, we’re gonna do this, it’s sometimes harder than just letting it happen naturally, I suppose.

00:12:41.355 –> 00:12:45.755
Alex James O’Connor: And yeah, Teo and I had hung and made a couple of ideas as well that made it onto the album.

00:12:45.755 –> 00:12:59.915
Alex James O’Connor: But the first, first song that it was the three of us was Guitar Song and it was in my house, literally just with nothing in it, it was kind of the beginning, it was no furniture or anything, it was just set on like bean bags or a little tiny table and figuring that out.

00:12:59.975 –> 00:13:03.995
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, a long relationship of friends before ever working, which is kind of a nice like-

00:13:03.995 –> 00:13:25.375
Teo Halm: I feel like that’s an important point too, because like there was no music for, at least, I mean, I think for both of us, there was no like writing or anything like that for years and years before, and I think that it wasn’t pushed, and when it finally happened in a natural way, the rapport was there and the trust was there, so we didn’t really have to talk about too much, it wasn’t like, oh, is that okay, is this, you know what I mean?

00:13:25.375 –> 00:13:28.035
Teo Halm: It was really just like very comfortable.

00:13:28.035 –> 00:13:29.115
John Kennedy: Yeah, that’s great.

00:13:29.215 –> 00:13:30.975
John Kennedy: So this friendship group was well established.

00:13:30.975 –> 00:13:47.335
John Kennedy: No, that’s kind of what I was trying to find out, I suppose, and it lit nice nicely because if Guitar Song was the first song we actually ended up working on together, and that’s the first song we’re going to look at in depth from the album, so I think maybe we should have a blast to the master and then we can find out how you created it.

00:13:47.335 –> 00:13:48.195
Teo Halm: Master Blaster.

00:14:52.043 –> 00:14:57.543
John Kennedy: So that is just a little taste of Guitar Song by Rex Orange County from Alexander Technique.

00:14:57.543 –> 00:14:59.663
John Kennedy: And it’s a song really of two halves in many ways.

00:14:59.663 –> 00:15:01.843
John Kennedy: I mean, that just gives you one idea of what happened.

00:15:01.843 –> 00:15:03.383
John Kennedy: A lot happens in the song.

00:15:03.623 –> 00:15:04.843
John Kennedy: So what happened first?

00:15:04.843 –> 00:15:06.623
John Kennedy: How did this come about?

00:15:06.623 –> 00:15:08.523
Alex James O’Connor: I mean, I’ll give my version of it.

00:15:08.523 –> 00:15:24.523
Alex James O’Connor: I feel like it was some years ago now, but as far as I remember, Jim had some chords that originated, and we sat, the three of us, with two guitars, and we hadn’t worked through creating the chords of that first half, I suppose.

00:15:25.583 –> 00:15:34.843
Alex James O’Connor: I had a melody over it, which is the melody that you hear, and it was from the original time of sat there thinking and singing through and freestyling.

00:15:34.843 –> 00:15:45.343
Alex James O’Connor: It was in making that idea and in making a couple other ideas in that same week, I had decided then it’s like we should probably go in to a studio whilst Teo was here to do some days.

00:15:45.343 –> 00:15:51.263
Alex James O’Connor: We went into Studio 13, which is Damon Urban’s spot, and that was maybe the very first thing we did.

00:15:51.263 –> 00:15:53.623
Alex James O’Connor: I think that was actually the first song of the day.

00:15:53.623 –> 00:15:58.723
Alex James O’Connor: I could be wrong, but it was Teo played the guitar chords and was doubling them.

00:15:58.723 –> 00:16:09.583
Alex James O’Connor: I remember him being in there thinking it sounded terrible, but me knowing I was in the control room sounding, it sounded great, but he was like super unsure and having to just keep it going.

00:16:09.583 –> 00:16:10.843
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, it was pretty natural.

00:16:10.843 –> 00:16:11.543
Alex James O’Connor: It came super quick.

00:16:11.543 –> 00:16:24.803
Alex James O’Connor: I’m kind of someone that can take a really long time to finish something, and it can be a minute for me, particularly with vocals and lyrics and such, but this was actually a really great example of when it came supernaturally and super quickly.

00:16:24.803 –> 00:16:39.543
Alex James O’Connor: For me, as far as the songwriting bit, I can just say for me that I definitely was in there, and it was Teo going crazy for the majority of the time of just adding and adding string instruments, mostly bass and guitars and samples and bits that I hadn’t have already come across.

00:16:39.543 –> 00:16:49.463
Alex James O’Connor: I feel like it was kind of a good insight for both of us actually, as far as production and Ableton and Teo’s techniques and such with that particular song.

00:16:49.463 –> 00:16:56.303
Alex James O’Connor: There is one particular part which is midway through, and Teo and Jim had gone off to Jim’s spot, which was upstairs.

00:16:56.303 –> 00:17:01.583
Alex James O’Connor: It was like your first room that you were renting, and went to add one part.

00:17:01.583 –> 00:17:05.523
Alex James O’Connor: And whilst they were there for like an hour or so, I was just doing all the vocals as much as I could.

00:17:05.523 –> 00:17:09.223
Alex James O’Connor: And other than that, that was kind of like, that’s my side of it, I suppose.

00:17:09.223 –> 00:17:13.703
Alex James O’Connor: And then the production side and the ending happening, I’ll hand that over to you guys.

00:17:13.963 –> 00:17:15.303
John Kennedy: So what should we hear first?

00:17:15.303 –> 00:17:19.243
John Kennedy: I mean, is there a demo for this or it sounds like you can elect?

00:17:19.243 –> 00:17:20.563
Teo Halm: Do we have the voice memo?

00:17:20.563 –> 00:17:21.163
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, I will do.

00:17:21.163 –> 00:17:21.683
Alex James O’Connor: I actually do.

00:17:21.683 –> 00:17:22.023
Alex James O’Connor: I’m sorry.

00:17:22.263 –> 00:17:23.943
Jim Reed: Do you want to airdrop it yet?

00:17:23.943 –> 00:17:28.883
Jim Reed: It was funny because, as I was saying, I just started running my first studio ever.

00:17:28.883 –> 00:17:34.163
Jim Reed: And these guys were going into Studio 13 for like 10, 12 days, I don’t know.

00:17:34.163 –> 00:17:38.703
Jim Reed: And I was like, you know, these guys were like working really well and I was just like upstairs.

00:17:38.703 –> 00:17:41.643
Jim Reed: And then at lunch, I would like calm down and be like, what’s up guys?

00:17:41.643 –> 00:17:43.183
Jim Reed: Can I hear some stuff?

00:17:43.183 –> 00:17:45.403
Jim Reed: And then I heard this that they started working on it.

00:17:45.403 –> 00:17:46.863
Jim Reed: It was just like, it was great.

00:17:46.863 –> 00:17:51.663
Jim Reed: And then I think slowly, they trusted me more to come and like bring ideas and stuff like that.

00:17:51.783 –> 00:17:53.683
Jim Reed: And that was just an amazing time.

00:17:53.683 –> 00:17:57.323
Jim Reed: We made so much in just that week or…

00:17:57.323 –> 00:17:59.563
Alex James O’Connor: Including 2008 and other one that we were going to get to.

00:17:59.923 –> 00:18:01.543
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, I got the, this is the demo.

00:18:01.543 –> 00:18:05.323
Alex James O’Connor: This was the very first version of me singing the melody.

00:18:05.323 –> 00:18:06.283
Teo Halm: I haven’t heard this in years.

00:18:59.453 –> 00:19:01.693
Alex James O’Connor: Oh, I don’t remember that.

00:19:01.693 –> 00:19:12.233
Alex James O’Connor: Anyway, yeah, a lot of, to be honest, that and a lot of the songs on the album, we had this joke about just like the Alexander Technique, the Technique itself was me mumbling over chords, pretty much that was the Technique.

00:19:12.233 –> 00:19:19.493
Alex James O’Connor: And it’s me sitting there and being like, this is the song, it’s presented itself, it’s come through me somehow, and now my challenge is to say something.

00:19:19.493 –> 00:19:31.013
Alex James O’Connor: It’s often one way or the other, either write words and then fit them to a song, or it’s that, which in this case, a lot of the music was starting that way and going straight off of feeling and then having to fill in the blanks on the lyric side.

00:19:31.053 –> 00:19:31.953
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:19:31.973 –> 00:19:35.653
John Kennedy: Once you have a demo like that, what do you do next?

00:19:35.653 –> 00:19:36.833
John Kennedy: How do you finesse that?

00:19:36.833 –> 00:19:40.033
John Kennedy: How do you translate that into a recording?

00:19:40.033 –> 00:19:42.753
Alex James O’Connor: I mean, that’s on these guys.

00:19:42.753 –> 00:19:47.973
Alex James O’Connor: I just knew that Tape sounded great playing those chords and that it was something to get down whatever that meant.

00:19:47.973 –> 00:19:50.893
Alex James O’Connor: It was like, we should just put this down, the chords and the vocal and see what happens.

00:19:50.893 –> 00:19:57.453
Alex James O’Connor: But it very quickly became the whole production, everything that it was became very clear, it presented itself very quickly.

00:19:57.553 –> 00:20:00.233
Alex James O’Connor: I don’t know, Teo, what you remember from that.

00:20:00.233 –> 00:20:00.793
Teo Halm: Yeah.

00:20:00.793 –> 00:20:04.473
Teo Halm: I mean, listening to that was crazy.

00:20:04.473 –> 00:20:11.973
Teo Halm: The demo because it’s always so funny going from a demo to a final recording and how so much changes and obviously, this one I’m so proud of.

00:20:11.973 –> 00:20:15.693
Teo Halm: But that demo is like lightning in a bottle.

00:20:15.693 –> 00:20:17.613
Teo Halm: Give me goosebumps listening to it.

00:20:17.613 –> 00:20:29.653
Teo Halm: I mean, one interesting thing to touch in on before we go into the recording is, when we’re all sitting around and writing the chords, I was always into this writing of getting the whole arrangement of a song before going in.

00:20:29.653 –> 00:20:35.593
Teo Halm: But maybe I kind of started making music off my computer, so I wasn’t really hip to like, I wasn’t, that wasn’t my strong suit.

00:20:35.593 –> 00:20:38.453
Teo Halm: And these guys were like, okay, well, this is the verse.

00:20:38.453 –> 00:20:39.913
Teo Halm: And then like, we should figure this out.

00:20:40.093 –> 00:20:42.713
Teo Halm: And okay, like chord change here or something like that.

00:20:42.713 –> 00:20:47.053
Teo Halm: And a lot of like the changes were like, it’s all rooted around the same movements.

00:20:47.053 –> 00:20:48.913
Teo Halm: But every time.

00:20:53.733 –> 00:20:54.513
Teo Halm: So that’s the first time.

00:20:54.593 –> 00:20:58.113
Teo Halm: And then it’s the second time, okay, well, we want to like impart a different emotion on the second time.

00:21:01.873 –> 00:21:03.493
Teo Halm: And then it just goes down.

00:21:06.353 –> 00:21:09.453
Teo Halm: And then here it was like, okay, well, now we got to do something new.

00:21:11.813 –> 00:21:14.513
Teo Halm: And it was like, okay, how do we bring the tension back?

00:21:17.853 –> 00:21:24.853
Teo Halm: And so it was like, I don’t know, I think we were coming in really strong, but I’m really scatterbrained and like very like ADHD.

00:21:25.113 –> 00:21:28.333
Teo Halm: And Alex is just better about that type of stuff.

00:21:28.333 –> 00:21:32.133
Teo Halm: So we came into Studio 13 and he was like, all right, let’s get this down.

00:21:32.133 –> 00:21:37.593
Teo Halm: And we go in and as he was saying, I was in there like, I was in the headphones.

00:21:37.593 –> 00:21:39.493
Teo Halm: I was so detached from like the feeling.

00:21:39.493 –> 00:21:43.353
Teo Halm: Like I was just like, man, this is like such a terrible performance.

00:21:43.353 –> 00:21:44.973
Teo Halm: And Alex was like, keep going, keep going, keep going.

00:21:44.973 –> 00:21:45.593
Teo Halm: And then I messed up.

00:21:45.593 –> 00:21:47.313
Teo Halm: I’m like, we should come back to this.

00:21:47.313 –> 00:21:48.813
Teo Halm: He’s like, no, just like finish the recording.

00:21:48.913 –> 00:21:50.873
Teo Halm: Like just get the whole thing.

00:21:50.873 –> 00:21:52.133
Teo Halm: And we did four parts.

00:21:52.133 –> 00:21:58.133
Teo Halm: So that’s the, what you hear is four, four acoustic guitar takes that we just committed.

00:21:58.133 –> 00:22:04.833
Teo Halm: I believe that we had recorded that with a, I think it was just a single cam 86, maybe stereo pair.

00:22:04.833 –> 00:22:06.613
Teo Halm: Actually might have been a cam 54.

00:22:06.613 –> 00:22:14.793
Teo Halm: But so basically we, you know, we recorded this guitar down and then there were probably a couple like auxiliary instruments.

00:22:14.793 –> 00:22:18.893
John Kennedy: Can we hear the guitars then maybe if they were the first things that went down?

00:22:18.893 –> 00:22:19.873
Teo Halm: Absolutely, yeah.

00:22:19.873 –> 00:22:25.833
Teo Halm: So I, it’s funny, I was going through the session, there’s not a lot of processing going on.

00:22:25.833 –> 00:22:29.893
Teo Halm: Like, I can’t tell you why, but I think it’s just the way things were played.

00:22:29.893 –> 00:22:31.553
Teo Halm: But here’s, I’ll just play a little bit of the guitar.

00:22:46.599 –> 00:22:48.099
Jim Reed: Was that you freestyling?

00:22:48.099 –> 00:22:59.219
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, so that was also another thing, so you have the original demo, and then it’s like me going off of the original chords, which is like midway between the beginning and the end.

00:23:10.819 –> 00:23:12.959
John Kennedy: But we can hear things coming in now.

00:23:12.959 –> 00:23:14.259
John Kennedy: So what are they being played from?

00:23:14.699 –> 00:23:25.279
Teo Halm: We basically, we did the guitar, I believe we laid down bass after that, and then it was pretty quickly to Alex, I believe it was Alex going to vocals, and he already had like an idea of the melody.

00:23:25.279 –> 00:23:34.259
Teo Halm: The thing is with him freestyling, it was kind of different than seeing anybody freestyle for me, before that, because it wasn’t just like purely like, oh, what sounds cool?

00:23:34.259 –> 00:23:48.219
Teo Halm: Like, you would be just in these like, it was just, you was just improvising, but it was always like, there would be words underneath, and you’d hear like a really deep sentiment or something like that, but maybe it just, you know, one word was missing.

00:23:48.219 –> 00:24:00.539
Teo Halm: But I don’t know if it was something he was like, it wasn’t like pre-planned, like I think he just like opened up a channel, and in a lot of these like, these first time takes, he would just say a lot of things that would go on to inform the rest.

00:24:00.539 –> 00:24:03.839
Teo Halm: And just kind of go in an order of what comes in.

00:24:03.839 –> 00:24:12.419
Teo Halm: Next up we have this Bass Clarinet, which is courtesy of our beloved and most beautiful talented friend, Michael Underwood.

00:24:12.419 –> 00:24:22.139
Teo Halm: So Alex called Michael in to play, and Alex is really good with just, you know, this type of producing of like working with players and arranging.

00:24:22.139 –> 00:24:26.539
Teo Halm: And so Alex was like, when he brought Michael in, he was like, watch this.

00:24:27.339 –> 00:24:34.379
Teo Halm: And, you know, Michael, he was like, okay, do like a, Alex probably started him off and was just like, okay, like, you know, like, let’s, they’re like speaking in code.

00:24:34.379 –> 00:24:38.779
Teo Halm: He’s like, oh, let’s, let’s, let’s do the, you know, give me some pads, blah, blah, blah.

00:24:38.779 –> 00:24:41.079
Teo Halm: So like Michael starts with like a bass take.

00:24:41.079 –> 00:24:41.899
Teo Halm: Let me find that.

00:24:41.899 –> 00:24:43.719
Teo Halm: It’d be like a.

00:24:43.719 –> 00:24:45.099
John Kennedy: So this is in 13.

00:24:45.099 –> 00:24:46.519
Alex James O’Connor: In studio 13, yeah.

00:24:46.699 –> 00:24:49.359
Alex James O’Connor: He would do like stacks of bass clarinet basically.

00:24:49.359 –> 00:24:50.679
Alex James O’Connor: He’s like such a beautiful timbre.

00:24:55.239 –> 00:24:56.959
Alex James O’Connor: Would you just play them all together just by themselves?

00:24:56.959 –> 00:24:59.819
Alex James O’Connor: That tail just the stack of bass clarinet?

00:24:59.819 –> 00:25:00.419
Alex James O’Connor: Yep.

00:25:00.539 –> 00:25:09.219
Teo Halm: So basically it’s just, you know, there’s a couple takes, but he would do this thing where he would work in his mind and kind of just arrange and know he wouldn’t even hear the take he did before, but he would just start stacking and everything sounds good.

00:25:09.219 –> 00:25:13.559
Teo Halm: And you know, we made a couple of tweaks and made it fit more, but this is everything.

00:25:15.979 –> 00:25:17.599
John Kennedy: And he’s just responding to that guitar.

00:25:40.415 –> 00:25:42.415
Jim Reed: But he remembers everything.

00:25:42.415 –> 00:25:47.055
Jim Reed: He’ll do something, and you’ll be like, and then Alex will be like, oh, could you double that?

00:25:47.055 –> 00:25:52.935
Jim Reed: Or like, and the take he did just before might have some weird trails or something, and he’ll just do it again.

00:25:52.935 –> 00:25:57.675
Jim Reed: And you’ll be like, the fact that he remembered that, or he’ll harmonize it in the same way with the same inflections.

00:25:57.675 –> 00:26:00.455
Jim Reed: And it’s, yeah, as Teo said, he just arranges everything in his mind.

00:26:00.455 –> 00:26:02.215
Jim Reed: He just goes, you’ll just be like, another harmony.

00:26:02.215 –> 00:26:06.075
Jim Reed: Or like, he’s so responsive and so creative.

00:26:06.075 –> 00:26:11.655
Teo Halm: Yeah, it’s like, he’s one of the most amazing players that I’ve been able to work with.

00:26:11.655 –> 00:26:16.595
Teo Halm: And so, yeah, so, you know, we have a bass take here, not much going on there.

00:26:18.975 –> 00:26:22.795
Teo Halm: I think Alex and I were just passing the bass back and forth, like figuring out the parts.

00:26:25.415 –> 00:26:27.975
Teo Halm: So next up, well, yeah, let’s go a bit forward.

00:26:27.975 –> 00:26:29.415
Teo Halm: So here’s this sound.

00:26:29.415 –> 00:26:32.675
Teo Halm: At the time, I had downloaded this app on my phone called Keezy.

00:26:32.675 –> 00:26:35.575
Teo Halm: And Keezy was like similar to this app called Koala, which you guys probably know.

00:26:36.115 –> 00:26:38.395
Teo Halm: It’s just like a pocket sampler.

00:26:38.395 –> 00:26:42.375
Teo Halm: And so we basically plugged the phone into the aux.

00:26:42.375 –> 00:26:46.035
Teo Halm: I would do some stuff and then we were sampling it.

00:26:46.035 –> 00:26:48.275
Teo Halm: So the next thing that comes in is this.

00:26:51.475 –> 00:26:54.595
Teo Halm: Which in context, it’s just something that’s building the track up.

00:27:07.527 –> 00:27:10.427
Teo Halm: Okay, so these vocals right here.

00:27:10.427 –> 00:27:16.107
Teo Halm: Jim and I had gone upstairs to work on this other section of the song, which we’ll get to.

00:27:16.107 –> 00:27:21.267
Teo Halm: And we came back down, and Alex had done this thing with Chloe Kramer, who was engineering at the time.

00:27:21.267 –> 00:27:23.327
Teo Halm: And me and Jim were just both like…

00:27:25.427 –> 00:27:29.787
Teo Halm: Just so like, you know, so basically, I’ll play this dry, these are Alex’s ooze.

00:27:29.787 –> 00:27:30.747
Teo Halm: This is a really cool one.

00:27:40.355 –> 00:27:47.775
Teo Halm: And at the time, we were doing a lot, we were using Melodyne as kind of like an EQ and formant shift.

00:27:47.775 –> 00:27:53.075
Teo Halm: So Alex did that, and we were like, okay, how can we make that just something fresh?

00:27:53.075 –> 00:27:58.735
Teo Halm: And just with a little bit of crystallizer and Melodyne formant shifting, it ends up sounding like…

00:28:07.453 –> 00:28:11.853
Teo Halm: And yeah, a lot of the vocals were already laid out.

00:28:16.193 –> 00:28:34.913
Teo Halm: And another big thing, I think, at the time that ended up becoming a sound for a couple of the songs on the record was Valhalla Room, because I think it was important for Alex to feel, you know, recording vocals in headphones is a really interesting thing, and being able to be inspired by what you’re getting and not just have this super clean recording.

00:28:35.673 –> 00:28:41.153
Teo Halm: And we ended up, you know, we had just experiment with different things and Room ended up becoming like a big thing.

00:28:41.153 –> 00:28:49.153
Teo Halm: And that’s also why some of these vocals come off sounding like really soft in a way that like I had to go back and I was just like, wow, this is incredible.

00:28:49.153 –> 00:28:52.593
Alex James O’Connor: I’m also doing my Michael McDonald impression in that section.

00:28:52.593 –> 00:28:54.013
Teo Halm: Yeah, everybody’s like, who is that?

00:28:54.013 –> 00:28:55.493
Jim Reed: Yeah, it was great.

00:28:55.493 –> 00:28:57.413
Teo Halm: That’s our guy.

00:28:57.413 –> 00:28:58.553
John Kennedy: So they left the room.

00:28:59.413 –> 00:29:00.673
John Kennedy: You carried on.

00:29:00.673 –> 00:29:01.133
Alex James O’Connor: Exactly.

00:29:01.133 –> 00:29:04.793
Alex James O’Connor: It was mostly just, I kind of need to get in the zone a little bit with the vocals.

00:29:04.793 –> 00:29:11.893
Alex James O’Connor: Sometimes I kind of like, as mentioned by Teo, it was Chloe Kramer who was recording me for a long time.

00:29:11.893 –> 00:29:16.533
Alex James O’Connor: Chloe Kramer and Tom Archer, both of the people who helped record this whole project.

00:29:16.533 –> 00:29:23.173
Alex James O’Connor: And yeah, it was, I’m kind of sometimes just need to get in the zone, particularly when it’s freestyling lyrics and things and actually just takes.

00:29:23.753 –> 00:29:28.273
Alex James O’Connor: I’m quite the perfectionist, which is at times to my advantage and at times to my detriment.

00:29:28.433 –> 00:29:31.893
Alex James O’Connor: But I’ll take a while, you know, I’ll do like a lot of takes.

00:29:31.893 –> 00:29:38.193
Alex James O’Connor: So I’m kind of, it definitely, particularly with that, I was wanting to get it as good as I can, knowing that they were upstairs, knowing they were about to come back.

00:29:38.193 –> 00:29:42.053
Alex James O’Connor: I kind of was like, I want to just get as much as I can right now.

00:29:42.053 –> 00:29:42.333
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah.

00:29:42.333 –> 00:29:43.533
Alex James O’Connor: And again, it was pretty demoli.

00:29:43.533 –> 00:29:46.153
Alex James O’Connor: And this is this is again beginning to the middle of the song.

00:29:46.153 –> 00:29:48.173
Alex James O’Connor: And there are no vocals for the rest of the song.

00:29:48.173 –> 00:29:49.653
Alex James O’Connor: But that’s that.

00:29:49.833 –> 00:29:51.313
John Kennedy: Because then it gets to this point.

00:29:51.313 –> 00:29:55.253
John Kennedy: And then suddenly it’s almost like, right, Bant, take it away.

00:29:55.253 –> 00:29:56.333
John Kennedy: And everybody has a lot of fun.

00:29:56.953 –> 00:29:57.353
Alex James O’Connor: Absolutely.

00:29:57.353 –> 00:29:59.473
John Kennedy: It’s like a saxophone breakdown.

00:29:59.473 –> 00:30:00.473
Alex James O’Connor: That’s Michael as well.

00:30:00.553 –> 00:30:01.033
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah.

00:30:01.933 –> 00:30:02.613
Alex James O’Connor: Teo, that’s you.

00:30:02.613 –> 00:30:07.473
Alex James O’Connor: I mean, that’s kind of all Teo’s work on like the last section.

00:30:07.473 –> 00:30:09.153
Alex James O’Connor: And I played drums though.

00:30:09.153 –> 00:30:11.353
Alex James O’Connor: I played the jazz drums at the end.

00:30:11.353 –> 00:30:11.773
John Kennedy: Right.

00:30:11.773 –> 00:30:16.553
Alex James O’Connor: And Finn Carter, incredible jazz pianist, played the piano at the end.

00:30:16.553 –> 00:30:19.413
Alex James O’Connor: And my good friend Joel McLaren played double bass at the end.

00:30:19.413 –> 00:30:20.793
Alex James O’Connor: Incredible player.

00:30:20.793 –> 00:30:22.293
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, go ahead, Teo.

00:30:22.293 –> 00:30:22.633
Alex James O’Connor: Play those.

00:30:22.633 –> 00:30:24.733
Alex James O’Connor: Like, how does it get into that transition?

00:30:24.733 –> 00:30:25.913
Teo Halm: So I’ll do a couple things real quick.

00:30:25.993 –> 00:30:27.413
Teo Halm: There’s one thing that I think is worth noting.

00:30:27.413 –> 00:30:30.373
Teo Halm: So when we get to this section right here, once the chorus is.

00:30:36.788 –> 00:30:40.868
Teo Halm: So basically, we have this chorus, but it didn’t have that sound in it.

00:30:40.868 –> 00:30:42.068
Teo Halm: It was just…

00:30:45.768 –> 00:30:49.908
Teo Halm: It was basically just the guitar and these vocals, and there was like, we were like, what do we do?

00:30:49.908 –> 00:30:51.508
Teo Halm: And again, I had this app on my phone.

00:30:51.508 –> 00:30:56.508
Teo Halm: So I’m just gonna show you real quick how we made this sound, which is like one of my favorite parts of the whole thing.

00:31:04.989 –> 00:31:06.549
Teo Halm: I’m gonna speed run this real quick.

00:31:06.549 –> 00:31:07.309
Teo Halm: So check this out.

00:31:07.309 –> 00:31:09.689
Teo Halm: Basically, you get this app called Koala.

00:31:09.689 –> 00:31:10.529
Teo Halm: And then I go.

00:31:25.620 –> 00:31:29.760
Teo Halm: And then you just put it on one shot so it plays out.

00:31:29.760 –> 00:31:33.940
Teo Halm: I used a different app, but this is the modern day equivalent.

00:31:33.940 –> 00:31:37.040
Teo Halm: Keezy, the app is listening, please bring it back.

00:31:37.040 –> 00:31:43.860
Teo Halm: And basically we just played it through an aux chord, probably pitched it up, and just did like this.

00:31:46.900 –> 00:31:47.880
Teo Halm: And then that became this.

00:31:51.620 –> 00:31:53.900
Teo Halm: Wow, which is like a crazy thing.

00:31:53.900 –> 00:31:54.540
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:31:54.540 –> 00:31:57.700
John Kennedy: I mean, you’d think that is a kind of instrument, wouldn’t you?

00:31:57.700 –> 00:31:59.300
John Kennedy: You’d think that’s, yeah.

00:31:59.300 –> 00:32:06.760
John Kennedy: I mean, there’s a lot of instruments to try and identify on this song, but on some of the other songs as well, where you’re trying to work out, no, what is that?

00:32:06.760 –> 00:32:11.180
John Kennedy: And it turns out it’s you manipulating equipment and voices.

00:32:11.180 –> 00:32:22.860
Teo Halm: It’s funny because I think a lot of the, like, when we talk about like the process of this song in particular, and just a lot of these on the record, from what I would just see of them working, is like, there wasn’t much like premeditation on how it was going to get done.

00:32:22.860 –> 00:32:28.300
Teo Halm: I think a lot of all the stuff was just a facilitation of like what the song was asking for.

00:32:28.300 –> 00:32:33.080
Teo Halm: You know, if something felt empty, it’s like, okay, like how can we make this, what is this asking for?

00:32:33.080 –> 00:32:35.040
Teo Halm: I feel like that was just such a big thing.

00:32:35.040 –> 00:32:38.180
Teo Halm: So yeah, just to, I want to show you guys this switch up real quick.

00:32:38.180 –> 00:32:50.520
Teo Halm: So basically, you know, we had this song, and then this section right here had come from, I don’t know if multi-timbral is the right word, but essentially just layering a bunch of different sounds.

00:32:50.520 –> 00:32:57.380
Teo Halm: So it would be like a Melotron from one thing, and you know, a crash from something else, and an old sample I had made or whatever.

00:32:57.380 –> 00:33:03.400
Teo Halm: And I essentially just took that, played one chord in the Melodyne, duplicated it, and changed the notes.

00:33:03.400 –> 00:33:07.320
Teo Halm: I think we did that, we were doing that a lot on the record, you know, to make something out of nothing.

00:33:12.880 –> 00:33:17.300
Teo Halm: So that’s really just like, dozens and dozens of sounds together to make a chord.

00:33:17.300 –> 00:33:18.560
Teo Halm: And then we re-sampled that.

00:33:18.560 –> 00:33:23.720
Teo Halm: And so then we’re at the end of the song, and we’re like, okay, do we go back to like this verse again?

00:33:23.720 –> 00:33:25.440
Teo Halm: And that just doesn’t feel right.

00:33:25.440 –> 00:33:28.360
Teo Halm: That probably felt a bit forced when we tried it.

00:33:28.360 –> 00:33:34.140
Teo Halm: And I think I was just like messing around, and I basically took, I took the first chord of the song, I took this.

00:33:38.240 –> 00:33:56.500
Teo Halm: So basically, all that’s happening there between these, the whole outro of this song, this whole second half, starts from us just taking like what’s going on, and then being like, well, that first chord is a major chord, if we drop it down to, that’s going to be another major chord, it’s going to sound really cool.

00:33:56.500 –> 00:34:01.200
Teo Halm: And then I’d say 25 minutes, we made the second half outside of the sax.

00:34:01.860 –> 00:34:11.060
Teo Halm: Immediately, it was just bass, started programming drums, and then Alex goes into the lab room, he’s like, hold on, I got an idea, because this is like what we had for the drums originally.

00:34:13.640 –> 00:34:20.300
Teo Halm: And another cool thing too, like if we would have tried to play like crazy bass on this, or like a really cool bass line, it wouldn’t have had the same feeling.

00:34:20.300 –> 00:34:26.240
Teo Halm: A lot of this is just, you know, we took this bass note and we just pitched it down, it’s super simple.

00:34:28.740 –> 00:34:33.880
Teo Halm: And so Alex goes in, he’s like, I got this, this drum idea and he basically goes in and starts ripping.

00:34:46.409 –> 00:34:54.929
Teo Halm: And these crazy sounds you hear in are from this artist named Blank Forms, Tyler Gilmore.

00:34:56.109 –> 00:35:02.769
Teo Halm: He puts out these sample packs of tape loops, stuff that he makes from cassette loops and whatnot.

00:35:06.749 –> 00:35:07.609
Teo Halm: Amazing stuff.

00:35:07.609 –> 00:35:10.109
Teo Halm: And it just really helped, you know.

00:35:12.749 –> 00:35:17.209
Jim Reed: You had a little like modded tape cassette kind of machine.

00:35:17.209 –> 00:35:17.729
Teo Halm: Yeah.

00:35:17.729 –> 00:35:21.889
Teo Halm: There’s a guy in the States named Foldy Makes, who makes these like modified cassette Walkmans.

00:35:21.889 –> 00:35:26.809
Teo Halm: And so we were also, I got inspired by this dude, and we were making our own tape loops, and we would do that on some of the songs.

00:35:26.809 –> 00:35:30.709
Teo Halm: I think the last thing to note is we brought in, Alex, what’s Johnny’s full name?

00:35:30.709 –> 00:35:31.889
Alex James O’Connor: Johnny Woodham.

00:35:31.889 –> 00:35:32.509
Teo Halm: Johnny Woodham.

00:35:33.269 –> 00:35:36.969
Teo Halm: And he absolutely killed this trumpet part.

00:35:42.189 –> 00:35:43.689
Teo Halm: And you know, we just got a bunch of stacks.

00:35:43.689 –> 00:35:54.829
Teo Halm: Really, that was just a mix of, for the saxophone and the sax solo, we did TLM 103, and then for the trumpets, just because they were brighter, we ended up using the Coles.

00:35:54.829 –> 00:35:56.929
Teo Halm: And yeah, that’s really about that.

00:35:56.929 –> 00:36:01.609
Teo Halm: The rest of this was just experimenting and kind of using pieces we already had and recycling them.

00:36:02.369 –> 00:36:11.089
Teo Halm: And then after that, we put it into Pro Tools and, you know, these guys were just doing their thing over in London, putting the whole masterpiece of an album together.

00:36:11.089 –> 00:36:19.169
Teo Halm: And then I hear it back, final vocals with this, like, crazy piano solo with the upright bass.

00:36:19.169 –> 00:36:21.849
Teo Halm: I’m just like, you know, they took it to another level.

00:36:21.849 –> 00:36:22.289
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah.

00:36:22.309 –> 00:36:24.609
Teo Halm: Which Jim and Alex can probably speak to, but yeah.

00:36:24.989 –> 00:36:25.469
Alex James O’Connor: Exactly.

00:36:25.469 –> 00:36:28.809
Alex James O’Connor: So I kind of lost it very, it was very quick on one day.

00:36:28.809 –> 00:36:34.229
Alex James O’Connor: And then that same version stuck around for like three years before it got properly finished.

00:36:34.229 –> 00:36:35.209
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah.

00:36:35.569 –> 00:36:36.989
Teo Halm: That was the version for three years.

00:36:36.989 –> 00:36:37.469
Alex James O’Connor: Exactly.

00:36:37.469 –> 00:36:37.789
Alex James O’Connor: Just that.

00:36:37.789 –> 00:36:38.329
John Kennedy: Right.

00:36:39.349 –> 00:36:42.289
John Kennedy: And then it goes to you then, the two of you.

00:36:42.289 –> 00:36:42.569
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:36:42.569 –> 00:36:47.629
Jim Reed: Well, we, this was such a pressure song because it was the first song that we all did together.

00:36:47.629 –> 00:36:53.689
Jim Reed: And it felt like the spark of, I guess, in a new avenue for Alexsonically.

00:36:54.509 –> 00:36:56.089
Jim Reed: And songwriting, I guess.

00:36:56.089 –> 00:37:05.009
Jim Reed: So I think there was definitely a lot, I think we were all quite scared to kind of touch it and mess with it.

00:37:05.009 –> 00:37:08.789
Jim Reed: And there was actually a lot of back and forth about that last section.

00:37:08.789 –> 00:37:15.689
Jim Reed: Because it went on for a while and we loved it so much, but it definitely felt like there could have been something in there.

00:37:15.689 –> 00:37:19.429
Jim Reed: And I think we wanted to get a whole bunch of people.

00:37:19.649 –> 00:37:24.589
Jim Reed: We set out a schedule at Alex’s studio to have like a guest week.

00:37:24.589 –> 00:37:28.209
Jim Reed: Whilst we had like a two month sort of plan to finish the record.

00:37:28.209 –> 00:37:30.789
Jim Reed: And one of the weeks was guest week.

00:37:30.789 –> 00:37:35.049
Jim Reed: So we brought in a whole bunch of different musicians that we loved and friends.

00:37:35.049 –> 00:37:43.689
Jim Reed: And one of our friends is a guy called Finn Carter, who Alex previously mentioned, who’s an incredible jazz pianist, well, just pianist.

00:37:43.709 –> 00:37:50.649
Jim Reed: And Alex’s good friend, our good friend, Joe Mack, incredible bass player and upright player.

00:37:50.649 –> 00:37:57.409
Jim Reed: And yeah, we got Finn in to kind of, I guess, play whatever really.

00:37:57.409 –> 00:37:58.029
Alex James O’Connor: He was ripping.

00:37:58.029 –> 00:37:59.549
Alex James O’Connor: I mean, that last section is crazy.

00:37:59.549 –> 00:38:05.209
Alex James O’Connor: The last section is like super unconventionally long and strange and not particularly normal, I suppose.

00:38:05.209 –> 00:38:06.389
Alex James O’Connor: And that was like, I loved that about it.

00:38:06.389 –> 00:38:15.849
Alex James O’Connor: And I never wanted to change the length, but without the piano, which you did kind of just hear, it does kind of stick in one spot and almost plateau straight away.

00:38:15.849 –> 00:38:21.149
Alex James O’Connor: In my mind, I was like, I love this feeling, but it is just the same from that middle point to the end.

00:38:21.149 –> 00:38:23.849
Alex James O’Connor: And it needs like at least some other element.

00:38:23.849 –> 00:38:27.229
Alex James O’Connor: I mean, yeah, I don’t know if you know, have that piano stand right there.

00:38:27.229 –> 00:38:27.769
Jim Reed: Yeah.

00:38:27.769 –> 00:38:29.009
Alex James O’Connor: The sprinkles.

00:38:29.009 –> 00:38:30.849
Jim Reed: Sprinkle.

00:38:30.849 –> 00:38:31.929
John Kennedy: So this is?

00:38:31.929 –> 00:38:33.169
Alex James O’Connor: This is Finn Carter.

00:38:33.169 –> 00:38:34.209
John Kennedy: Finn Carter.

00:38:34.209 –> 00:38:38.929
Alex James O’Connor: Amazing pianist in general, but yeah, Siriuson with that jazz.

00:38:40.929 –> 00:38:42.269
Jim Reed: Can you hear that?

00:38:43.389 –> 00:38:44.609
Jim Reed: Oh, this is fading in.

00:38:44.609 –> 00:38:45.329
Jim Reed: Okay, yeah, cool.

00:38:54.843 –> 00:38:56.683
Jim Reed: So that was fading into the way it was.

00:39:02.343 –> 00:39:04.863
Jim Reed: I mean, alone, it just sounds amazing.

00:39:04.863 –> 00:39:05.703
Jim Reed: I’ll play it in context.

00:39:22.815 –> 00:39:25.195
Jim Reed: Yeah, we will really keep going.

00:39:25.195 –> 00:39:28.895
Jim Reed: Yeah, he got more weird.

00:39:28.895 –> 00:39:31.455
John Kennedy: So again, he’s just responding to what you’d already created.

00:39:31.455 –> 00:39:32.615
Alex James O’Connor: Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:32.615 –> 00:39:40.715
Alex James O’Connor: This was all very much like, the intention and the planning is like, oh, there needs to be another layer, and there needs to be who, and what kind of style.

00:39:40.715 –> 00:39:52.435
Alex James O’Connor: But then as soon as they’re in there, it’s like, you give us what you have, and we’ll just try and direct you from here as a guide if you’re blindfolded, and you’re just doing your thing, being yourself, and we’ll try and pull up the thing.

00:39:52.515 –> 00:39:57.315
Alex James O’Connor: You’ll do something by accident and we’ll be like that, that’s the thing, try and do more of that, and they’ll be like, oh, okay, and it won’t.

00:39:57.315 –> 00:40:00.135
Alex James O’Connor: Not just for any of these, any one that we get into play.

00:40:00.135 –> 00:40:02.075
Teo Halm: Yeah, I was just gonna say that.

00:40:02.075 –> 00:40:04.455
Teo Halm: I feel like that was a big thing.

00:40:04.455 –> 00:40:12.235
Teo Halm: Like the in-between moments for like the stuff that wasn’t necessarily intentional, but then you’d hone in and you’d be like that, that, that.

00:40:12.235 –> 00:40:13.555
Teo Halm: Once you heard it, you knew.

00:40:13.555 –> 00:40:14.395
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, exactly.

00:40:14.395 –> 00:40:30.575
Jim Reed: And going back to the kind of room thing that Teo was mentioning about us using like Valhalla Room, and just that kind of live thing, that natural sound, there was a point with the piano that I like, where it just switches to the room whilst Finn’s soloing.

00:40:38.874 –> 00:40:43.214
Jim Reed: And that was just a mic by Alex, had like a little window to his staircase.

00:40:43.214 –> 00:40:48.054
Jim Reed: And it just created just like a completely different feeling as if you were in a room.

00:40:48.054 –> 00:40:49.174
John Kennedy: Yeah, totally.

00:40:49.394 –> 00:40:52.294
John Kennedy: And how many years apart then was this from that first?

00:40:52.294 –> 00:40:53.914
Alex James O’Connor: Three, I’d say about three years.

00:40:53.914 –> 00:41:04.374
Alex James O’Connor: It was like 2021, September made that thing in 2013, and then January and February of this year, it was the end of last year, I was like, I’m finishing this project, I have to finish this project.

00:41:04.374 –> 00:41:15.334
Alex James O’Connor: Me and Jim were in Asia, and we were in Asia on tour, and I was actually in Kuala Lumpur, and sat outside having a cigarette, Jim was like, when are you gonna finish this?

00:41:15.334 –> 00:42:00.494
Alex James O’Connor: Because it’s almost like an ongoing joke at the time, it’s been in my life for such a long time, certain songs I won’t touch, I’m like, this is from 2020, but it’s going on there, like the first song on the album, Alexander, is literally as it was on the day, again, one day, and that was in Decoy and Suffolk, and I didn’t touch it for four years, and yeah, and so certain things were super precious, and I was kind of like, I want to tell the story authentically and be like, certain things need to stay at where they are, you know, and certain things you grow out of and you need to replace or try and like, try and fit it into all makes sense in context with each other, but yeah, this just, we just didn’t touch, and I just listened to it all the time with me mumbling over it and play it to people with me mumbling over it, and just be like, don’t watch the vocal, but yeah, we got there, we got there in the end, and then I got there beginning of this year.

00:42:02.014 –> 00:42:15.654
John Kennedy: Yeah, I love that, you know, sometimes we need to wait until the right idea and bring the right person in for that moment and capture that moment, because once it’s captured, then it’s all kind of done, and now the album is there for everybody to enjoy.

00:42:15.654 –> 00:42:18.574
John Kennedy: But we need to move on to another song.

00:42:18.574 –> 00:42:24.654
John Kennedy: Is there one little piece of guitar song that we could hear to just round things up from the finished version?

00:42:24.654 –> 00:42:25.854
Jim Reed: Where should we go from maybe?

00:42:27.014 –> 00:42:33.534
Alex James O’Connor: That’s what it’s, yeah, that Michael coming in and Michael hitting that sax the first time.

00:43:41.529 –> 00:43:44.009
John Kennedy: I feel like we should name check all those musicians again.

00:43:44.009 –> 00:43:45.429
John Kennedy: So on saxophone, Michael.

00:43:45.429 –> 00:43:46.829
Alex James O’Connor: That’s Michael Underwood.

00:43:46.829 –> 00:43:49.669
John Kennedy: And then on drums, Alexander James O’Connor.

00:43:49.669 –> 00:43:50.729
Alex James O’Connor: That’s a fact.

00:43:50.729 –> 00:43:57.869
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, Michael also played the bass clarinet on that, and saxophone, and then Johnny Woodham is playing the trumpet, I believe, or the flugel.

00:43:57.869 –> 00:43:59.909
Alex James O’Connor: Finn Carter is playing the piano.

00:43:59.909 –> 00:44:01.629
Alex James O’Connor: Ruben James is actually playing the guitar.

00:44:01.629 –> 00:44:10.129
Alex James O’Connor: Ruben James, Amazing Keys player, and he’s on a bunch of other songs, but he actually played guitar on that for some reason, and it came out very nice.

00:44:10.429 –> 00:44:13.509
Alex James O’Connor: And then, who am I forgetting?

00:44:13.509 –> 00:44:15.909
Alex James O’Connor: Joe Mac on double bass.

00:44:15.909 –> 00:44:22.809
Alex James O’Connor: And I believe that’s it, Teo on the guitar, and me singing, and yeah, that bass as well, I believe.

00:44:22.809 –> 00:44:23.529
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

00:44:23.529 –> 00:44:30.649
John Kennedy: So that is Guitar Song by Rex Orange County, and we’re going to take a quick break, and the next song we’re going to look at is 2008.

00:44:30.649 –> 00:44:32.209
Jim Reed: Lovely, yeah.

00:44:33.929 –> 00:44:39.069
John Kennedy: This episode is supported by Musiversal, an amazing new service for working with session musicians remotely.

00:44:39.489 –> 00:44:52.849
John Kennedy: If you use session musicians or would like to, but it’s been too expensive or hard to organize, this is for you, and we have a special offer for any Tape Notes listeners, 25% off for the first three months, and you get to skip the wait list, but more on that in a moment.

00:44:52.849 –> 00:44:55.909
John Kennedy: I’ve got David from Musiversal here to tell us all about it.

00:44:55.909 –> 00:44:56.829
John Kennedy: Hello, David.

00:44:56.829 –> 00:44:58.189
John Kennedy: What is Musiversal?

00:44:58.189 –> 00:44:58.569
David: Hey, John.

00:44:58.569 –> 00:45:00.089
David: Thank you so much for having us on here.

00:45:00.089 –> 00:45:01.449
David: Appreciate it a ton.

00:45:01.449 –> 00:45:12.489
David: Musiversal is an online remote recording studio for artists, producers, composers, anyone who’s a music creator, to work with session musicians remotely.

00:45:12.489 –> 00:45:21.509
David: In a couple of clicks, you can go on and you can book a session with a drummer or a guitar player, a piano player, you name it, they’re on the platform.

00:45:21.509 –> 00:45:25.749
David: And so the way that it works is all of the sessions are hosted over live stream.

00:45:25.749 –> 00:45:36.529
David: So all of the revisions and feedback and all of the different little, you know, hey, would you mind, you know, moving to the ride symbol for the fourth bar?

00:45:36.529 –> 00:45:39.829
David: Or would you mind, you know, finger plucking instead of using a pick?

00:45:39.829 –> 00:45:45.929
David: You know, all of those types of creative choices can happen quite literally as if the musician is in the room just done over live stream.

00:45:45.929 –> 00:45:46.609
David: Yeah.

00:45:46.609 –> 00:45:47.549
John Kennedy: It sounds amazing.

00:45:47.549 –> 00:45:49.309
John Kennedy: And in a way, the clue is in the name.

00:45:49.309 –> 00:45:50.029
John Kennedy: Musiversal.

00:45:50.029 –> 00:45:59.129
John Kennedy: It means that whether you’re a beginner or whether you’re somebody with a lot of experience, you can still get access to the same kind of level of musicianship and creativity.

00:45:59.609 –> 00:45:59.789
David: Yeah.

00:45:59.789 –> 00:46:17.189
David: It’s amazing because it allows the music to have expression on it and musicianship that, you know, if I’m sitting in my basement playing piano versus a piano player that’s played for, you know, Jay-Z or has been playing for 25 plus years, the material that comes out of that is going to sound night and day.

00:46:17.189 –> 00:46:18.269
John Kennedy: What does it cost?

00:46:18.269 –> 00:46:21.429
David: So the service is $200 a month, US.

00:46:21.429 –> 00:46:23.729
David: And included in that is all of the sessions.

00:46:23.729 –> 00:46:25.909
David: So there’s no additional fees or anything.

00:46:25.909 –> 00:46:28.609
David: You know, you get to book as many sessions as you can have per month.

00:46:29.089 –> 00:46:35.069
David: To put it in perspective, the average user probably books about five to seven sessions per month.

00:46:35.069 –> 00:46:38.829
David: But we actually have some users booking 10, 12, 15 sessions per month.

00:46:38.829 –> 00:46:41.069
David: So, I mean, you could do the math on 200.

00:46:41.229 –> 00:46:47.869
David: The deal really is awesome and it allows people to work with incredible musicians and you know, not break the bank.

00:46:47.869 –> 00:46:48.749
John Kennedy: It sounds great.

00:46:48.749 –> 00:46:51.509
John Kennedy: Can you remind us what the offer is for Tape Notes listeners?

00:46:51.509 –> 00:46:54.709
David: Well, look, we’re so thankful that you guys are having us on here.

00:46:54.709 –> 00:46:59.829
David: What we would love to do is offer 25% off per month for their first three months.

00:46:59.829 –> 00:47:02.489
David: And then the other cool part is they get to skip our waitlist.

00:47:02.489 –> 00:47:04.529
David: So, you know, we usually run a waitlist.

00:47:04.529 –> 00:47:05.709
David: It’s about two weeks long.

00:47:05.709 –> 00:47:10.449
David: But in this case, you know, finding us through this episode, you could have a session as early as tomorrow.

00:47:10.449 –> 00:47:11.149
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

00:47:11.149 –> 00:47:15.669
John Kennedy: And to get the offer, all you have to do is find the link in any of our recent episode show notes.

00:47:15.669 –> 00:47:17.169
John Kennedy: David, thank you so much for speaking to us.

00:47:17.169 –> 00:47:22.349
John Kennedy: And maybe one day we’ll be talking about a piece of music that’s been created using Museversal.

00:47:22.349 –> 00:47:23.229
David: That would be incredible.

00:47:23.229 –> 00:47:24.249
David: We cannot wait for that day.

00:47:27.349 –> 00:47:33.029
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at from The Alexander Technique by Rex Orange County is 2008.

00:47:33.029 –> 00:47:35.649
John Kennedy: And Jim is ready to give us a blast of the master.

00:48:31.471 –> 00:48:33.851
John Kennedy: A little taste of the finished version of 2008.

00:48:33.851 –> 00:48:43.091
John Kennedy: So one of the striking things about the Alexander Technique, Alex, is the variety of voices you employ, and the variety of pitches and tones that you create.

00:48:43.291 –> 00:48:46.831
John Kennedy: And that’s a good example of another kind of voice that you’re singing in there.

00:48:46.831 –> 00:48:52.851
Alex James O’Connor: For sure, that is the first time I’ve ever done like a straight falsetto as the lead vocal.

00:48:52.851 –> 00:48:59.171
Alex James O’Connor: And it’s kind of like, it took a slight bit of convincing myself almost a little bit to let that out and it be okay.

00:48:59.711 –> 00:49:09.611
Alex James O’Connor: The song’s actually had a really interesting ride, where the demo I’m sure you’ll hear, like the original vocal was exactly in that world and I’m falsetto for a lot of it.

00:49:09.611 –> 00:49:12.891
Alex James O’Connor: Again, it was a scratch that ended up really quite similar.

00:49:12.891 –> 00:49:14.771
Alex James O’Connor: It ended up similar in the end.

00:49:14.771 –> 00:49:28.811
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, again, I was coming from a mumbling place and I initially did something I did, I was a little bit self-conscious of that and I put in a middle range vocal that’s like, I’m in the back, as well as doing, I’m in the back.

00:49:28.851 –> 00:49:31.271
Alex James O’Connor: And then I also did, I’m in the back, and did them all at the same time.

00:49:31.271 –> 00:49:32.251
Alex James O’Connor: It was like a big stack.

00:49:32.251 –> 00:49:37.731
Alex James O’Connor: And it was kind of like hiding behind a huge jacket and being like, you know, I’m like, don’t need to see me type thing.

00:49:37.731 –> 00:49:51.171
Alex James O’Connor: Cause that full set was quite vulnerable and like to do it by itself is not the most like, you can, I don’t know, particularly live, it’s not easy to sing that way and it’s vulnerable and you’re kind of just like, it’s fragile in some way.

00:49:51.171 –> 00:49:53.851
Alex James O’Connor: So I’m glad to have lent into it.

00:49:53.851 –> 00:49:55.631
Alex James O’Connor: And it’s a song about being youngest.

00:49:55.931 –> 00:50:07.891
Alex James O’Connor: So it’s kind of maybe funny that it’s like before my voice broke or something, you know, but yeah, it’s a song about being 10 years old and it’s about the music that I was listening to at that point and having an iPod and having, I don’t mention that, but it’s about that time of just when things were a little bit.

00:50:07.891 –> 00:50:09.111
John Kennedy: Is it Jay-Z you refer to?

00:50:09.111 –> 00:50:16.151
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, I refer to Jay-Z and TI and Lil Wayne and a number of other rappers, but like music that I was listening to at the time was always very eclectic.

00:50:16.151 –> 00:50:20.111
Alex James O’Connor: A lot of like rock music, I was playing drums, a lot of rap music, a lot of theater.

00:50:20.111 –> 00:50:24.531
Alex James O’Connor: Cause I was like doing acting and such as a kid, pop music.

00:50:24.531 –> 00:50:31.551
Alex James O’Connor: I was so obsessed with everything, but there was a period when I was about 10 years old, like Eminem, Jay-Z just like really obsessed with rap.

00:50:32.431 –> 00:50:36.731
Alex James O’Connor: That came from the freestyle again, that subject matter just came out of me.

00:50:36.731 –> 00:50:40.571
Alex James O’Connor: The Black Album, been listening to Jay-Z every day, was a freestyle as well.

00:50:40.571 –> 00:50:47.891
Alex James O’Connor: So as far as the songwriting, yeah, and the original demo was not, it went elsewhere and I’ve had to sort of rein it in and it’s changed.

00:50:47.891 –> 00:50:51.811
Alex James O’Connor: I did actually have a third verse that I changed and got rid of, which is one of the only times I’ve done that.

00:50:51.911 –> 00:50:55.251
Alex James O’Connor: I never normally commit to an entire section and then get rid of it.

00:50:55.251 –> 00:51:07.211
Alex James O’Connor: To be honest, I just had a change of heart and it kind of went through a life again, much like that guitar song, but it had been, this one has been touched more so, I suppose, and I’ve gone into it in different ways.

00:51:07.211 –> 00:51:11.851
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, as far as the musicians, again, it’s Joe Mack on the electric bass going absolutely ballistic.

00:51:11.851 –> 00:51:14.691
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, I’ll let you go into the sample side of things.

00:51:14.691 –> 00:51:18.311
John Kennedy: Should we hear the demo or is that not necessary?

00:51:31.283 –> 00:51:32.303
John Kennedy: Is this the demo, then?

00:51:32.303 –> 00:51:32.943
Alex James O’Connor: This is the demo.

00:51:32.943 –> 00:51:34.263
Alex James O’Connor: All right, wow.

00:51:35.523 –> 00:51:36.843
John Kennedy: Where would you have recorded this?

00:51:36.843 –> 00:51:37.863
Alex James O’Connor: Studio 13 as well.

00:51:37.863 –> 00:51:38.823
John Kennedy: Oh, okay.

00:51:38.823 –> 00:51:39.223
John Kennedy: Same time.

00:52:21.138 –> 00:52:24.098
John Kennedy: So having created this, what did you decide to do?

00:52:24.098 –> 00:52:26.878
John Kennedy: What was the decision making process?

00:52:26.878 –> 00:52:30.278
John Kennedy: It’s like, well, we got this, but we’re not entirely happy with it.

00:52:30.278 –> 00:52:30.758
Alex James O’Connor: Where does it go?

00:52:30.758 –> 00:52:39.018
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, I kind of, for me, I personally felt like it was meant to stay as quite a simple production and quite a simple song.

00:52:39.598 –> 00:52:42.678
Alex James O’Connor: In a lot of ways, it’s not loads going on harmonically.

00:52:42.678 –> 00:52:53.018
Alex James O’Connor: And I think for me at my priority was just the vocals and writing a good enough story that played into that, lent into that thing about being 10 and referencing different music.

00:52:55.318 –> 00:52:59.658
Alex James O’Connor: It just had a long life of kind of like adding and taking away and experimenting, you know?

00:52:59.658 –> 00:53:06.498
Alex James O’Connor: But the original idea came from you, Jim, with a song by Sufjan Stevens and Angelo de Augustine.

00:53:06.498 –> 00:53:09.018
Jim Reed: Great song, a song called Murder and Crime.

00:53:09.018 –> 00:53:13.118
Teo Halm: We were probably downstairs working on something else and Jim was like upstairs in this room.

00:53:13.118 –> 00:53:16.138
Alex James O’Connor: That’s a fact, yeah, me and Teo were downstairs and Jim was on his ones doing this.

00:53:16.138 –> 00:53:18.018
Teo Halm: We were probably working on Guitar Song, to be honest.

00:53:18.018 –> 00:53:19.498
Teo Halm: Like we were probably getting Guitar Song right.

00:53:19.498 –> 00:53:24.558
Teo Halm: And then Jim comes down and he’s like, guys, also got this, comes with this crazy thing.

00:53:24.558 –> 00:53:25.798
Jim Reed: Do you have that?

00:53:25.798 –> 00:53:27.718
Jim Reed: I was just like, yeah, I just got a couple of words.

00:53:27.738 –> 00:53:31.158
Jim Reed: It’s just like trying to, and we, yeah, it was good fun.

00:53:31.158 –> 00:53:37.278
Jim Reed: And Teo was, to be fair to Teo, Teo was so kind and so encouraging to me.

00:53:37.278 –> 00:53:43.478
Jim Reed: And just like, yeah, Teo definitely pushed me to come with some stuff for these guys.

00:53:43.478 –> 00:53:45.458
Jim Reed: So yeah, I…

00:53:45.458 –> 00:53:46.898
Teo Halm: Yeah, we’re on this Melodyne thing.

00:53:46.898 –> 00:53:48.238
Teo Halm: Do you have that sample in front of you Jim?

00:53:48.298 –> 00:54:01.038
Jim Reed: Yeah, yeah, I think also being a drummer, I always wanted to play other instruments, but I put a lot of time into drums and I wasn’t great at guitar or bass or piano.

00:54:01.038 –> 00:54:10.018
Jim Reed: So I think a lot of my production started with just sampling because it could give me some sort of like harmonic happiness.

00:54:10.018 –> 00:54:11.738
Jim Reed: You know, information, yeah.

00:54:11.738 –> 00:54:12.518
Teo Halm: Voice.

00:54:12.518 –> 00:54:13.358
Jim Reed: Yeah, exactly.

00:54:13.758 –> 00:54:20.318
Jim Reed: So I just put this Sofyan Sivan songs into just Logic’s sampler.

00:54:20.318 –> 00:54:24.978
Jim Reed: And I don’t think I even put it to time or like to tempo.

00:54:24.978 –> 00:54:28.658
Jim Reed: I think I just whacked it in and just started pressing buttons and hope for the best.

00:54:33.958 –> 00:54:36.918
Jim Reed: All just kind of works, and then I somehow came up with this pattern.

00:54:42.918 –> 00:54:44.518
Jim Reed: It’s like, oh, this is cool.

00:54:44.518 –> 00:54:47.778
Jim Reed: And this is actually very sped up 36%, so I actually started here.

00:54:51.503 –> 00:54:53.023
Alex James O’Connor: That was a big thing as well, very speedy.

00:54:53.023 –> 00:54:55.123
Jim Reed: Very speedy, and a massive thing, yeah.

00:54:55.123 –> 00:54:59.003
Jim Reed: Which also created quite a few problems for us, but we’ll get into that.

00:54:59.003 –> 00:55:09.643
Jim Reed: And then, yeah, again, just on the Melodyne thing, I changed, and I just changed the bass to go down, and then did it again.

00:55:12.003 –> 00:55:18.103
Jim Reed: And these two, and then just put some clave thing in there, and bass.

00:55:22.223 –> 00:55:26.603
Jim Reed: Showed this to Teo, and Teo was like, say less, balance me that.

00:55:26.603 –> 00:55:26.903
Jim Reed: Yeah.

00:55:26.903 –> 00:55:30.943
Jim Reed: He took it, and kind of ran with it, and chopped it up, and did his thing.

00:55:30.943 –> 00:55:41.383
Teo Halm: I basically just took it, because his thing had all the life to it, and I just programmed these drums to it, just because it felt like I was asking for this like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

00:55:41.383 –> 00:55:52.283
Teo Halm: And then it was just, it was like an assembly line, like Jim comes with this crazy sample, I put some drums on it, probably play a bass line, and then Alex heard that, and it was just like, all right, let’s go.

00:55:52.283 –> 00:55:54.743
Teo Halm: Jim, real quick, do you have the Melodyne in front of you?

00:55:54.743 –> 00:55:55.903
Jim Reed: Yeah, I do.

00:55:55.903 –> 00:56:00.083
Teo Halm: I was going to say, just because we didn’t show it before, but do you just want to, do you want to show the formant shifting thing real quick?

00:56:00.283 –> 00:56:01.243
Jim Reed: Yeah, I do.

00:56:01.243 –> 00:56:03.203
Jim Reed: I’ll show it on this one.

00:56:05.363 –> 00:56:07.263
Jim Reed: I don’t think I actually formant shifted anything.

00:56:07.263 –> 00:56:14.683
Jim Reed: I think I might have done some, some attack differences, but this is it normally.

00:56:16.323 –> 00:56:30.263
Jim Reed: And then if I just drag the formant down, and you get just this really strange sub-information in there as well.

00:56:30.263 –> 00:56:36.143
Jim Reed: And if you put the attack up, or like the attack the other way.

00:56:37.803 –> 00:56:40.323
Jim Reed: And if you wanted to chop that up, I’m sure you would get something amazing.

00:56:40.323 –> 00:56:42.443
Jim Reed: So it’s, this was just a huge part.

00:56:42.443 –> 00:56:43.703
Teo Halm: A lot of playing with that.

00:56:43.703 –> 00:56:47.983
Jim Reed: This was one of our favorite instruments, I guess, if you want to call it that.

00:56:47.983 –> 00:56:49.483
Alex James O’Connor: And then where did it end up after?

00:56:49.483 –> 00:56:52.423
Alex James O’Connor: Like, so we kind of just like sat again with that for a while again.

00:56:52.423 –> 00:56:58.223
Alex James O’Connor: It was like that thing you initially heard of me mumbling and trying to get the story out.

00:56:58.223 –> 00:57:01.123
Alex James O’Connor: And then I went and, I kind of went and walked on the vocals themselves, really.

00:57:01.123 –> 00:57:02.923
Alex James O’Connor: I just kind of like, they didn’t, I didn’t change too much.

00:57:02.923 –> 00:57:10.683
Alex James O’Connor: I kind of structured it out slightly differently and moved the, taking it slow part and kind of like, I mostly was focused in on the vocals, to be real.

00:57:10.683 –> 00:57:13.283
Alex James O’Connor: And I went away and did that.

00:57:13.283 –> 00:57:18.643
Alex James O’Connor: And then again, when it came back to like the beginning of this year, I’m pretty sure it was just the January, February that we got back into it.

00:57:18.643 –> 00:57:20.303
Alex James O’Connor: I don’t know if we really touched it before then.

00:57:20.303 –> 00:57:21.123
Jim Reed: No, I don’t think so.

00:57:21.123 –> 00:57:23.123
Alex James O’Connor: And then, yeah, again, brought it to my house.

00:57:23.463 –> 00:57:27.963
Alex James O’Connor: And I feel like there’s a few things going on that we added on.

00:57:27.963 –> 00:57:29.243
Jim Reed: Yeah, there is.

00:57:29.243 –> 00:57:33.763
Teo Halm: I also have a question for you, Alex, once we go through these parts.

00:57:33.763 –> 00:57:46.903
Teo Halm: Well, just maybe while Jim pulls that up, I just wanted to ask, you know, because I think for probably a lot of people whom make songs or make music or projects, they know the feeling of like being stuck with something that feels, that has something to it.

00:57:46.903 –> 00:57:53.143
Teo Halm: But it’s like, you know, not knowing when to like push or pull on how you should like, just to push yourself.

00:57:53.143 –> 00:57:59.483
Teo Halm: But, you know, like, I just wanted to ask about like, you know, what would be your protocol when inspiration wasn’t present?

00:57:59.483 –> 00:58:04.143
Teo Halm: You know, because at a certain point, when you’re living with songs for years and there’s no inspiration, it’s like, what do you, you know, what do you do?

00:58:04.143 –> 00:58:07.663
Teo Halm: Because I know you guys were showing up every day, you had like these post-its on the wall.

00:58:07.663 –> 00:58:11.803
Teo Halm: Like just, you know, how did you like, how did you kind of crack through a lot of these songs?

00:58:11.803 –> 00:58:17.303
Alex James O’Connor: Honestly, the one thing that saved my life and allowed me to finish it was putting a deadline on it and saying, I’m finishing it this day.

00:58:17.303 –> 00:58:20.443
Alex James O’Connor: And I did, I finished it on the, I said, I’ll finish on the first of March.

00:58:20.443 –> 00:58:23.423
Alex James O’Connor: I did, I finished on the 29th of February and it was a great day.

00:58:23.423 –> 00:58:27.263
Alex James O’Connor: And it was really that, I swear on my life, you could just make it forever.

00:58:27.263 –> 00:58:28.143
Alex James O’Connor: I could make it forever.

00:58:28.143 –> 00:58:33.523
Alex James O’Connor: I could just keep going, keep going until I’m like, you can keep, you can say out loud, I’m gonna get it done, I’m gonna put this time in.

00:58:33.523 –> 00:58:37.383
Alex James O’Connor: But like, really, I did the most disciplined, the most disciplined I’ve been in years.

00:58:37.383 –> 00:58:40.323
Alex James O’Connor: I was just like, like nothing really goes on in January.

00:58:40.323 –> 00:58:42.283
Alex James O’Connor: It’s horrible, depressing, it’s so cold in the UK.

00:58:43.463 –> 00:58:57.103
Alex James O’Connor: And we’re just literally, me and Jim are like, this is the perfect time to just start and finish and use January and February as like, just work, like have a schedule, had to stay, in fact, the post-it note that said, start at like 12 or something, 11 or 12.

00:58:57.103 –> 00:59:00.623
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, between 10 and 12 and finish between seven and eight every day.

00:59:00.623 –> 00:59:05.783
Alex James O’Connor: And it had to, and it was like, even if you got the inspiration and you stop, and the first time we did it, it felt so strange.

00:59:05.783 –> 00:59:07.543
Alex James O’Connor: I’m like doing vocals, I’m midway through vocals.

00:59:07.543 –> 00:59:08.143
Jim Reed: You were not happy.

00:59:08.143 –> 00:59:08.723
Alex James O’Connor: I was not happy.

00:59:09.263 –> 00:59:12.623
Alex James O’Connor: It came, I’m like, it’s coming up, I know it’s coming up to seven or eight.

00:59:12.623 –> 00:59:14.543
Alex James O’Connor: And I’m like, I’m not finished though.

00:59:14.763 –> 00:59:15.643
Alex James O’Connor: I know I’m not finished.

00:59:15.643 –> 00:59:17.143
Alex James O’Connor: And normally I would go till four in the morning.

00:59:17.143 –> 00:59:18.903
Alex James O’Connor: I would just keep going, keep going, keep going.

00:59:18.903 –> 00:59:25.043
Alex James O’Connor: So that discipline is honestly what helped me finish it and being like, I’ve only got this many hours and it’s until March the first.

00:59:25.043 –> 00:59:33.503
Alex James O’Connor: And I’m gonna, you know, I actually had a really interesting conversation with my manager once about how, when I set in a deadline and I was really worried, this was on the album Pony.

00:59:33.503 –> 00:59:34.703
Alex James O’Connor: I remember I only had so much time.

00:59:34.703 –> 00:59:37.363
Alex James O’Connor: And in my head, I’m like, I don’t know if it’s enough time.

00:59:37.363 –> 00:59:41.883
Alex James O’Connor: And when it came down to it, we finished it literally again on the day, like the day before or whatever.

00:59:41.883 –> 00:59:47.983
Alex James O’Connor: And I remember saying to my manager, if you had told me that deadline was one week before, I would have got that shit done one week before.

00:59:47.983 –> 00:59:50.723
Alex James O’Connor: And if you told me it was one week after, I would have fucked around for another week.

00:59:50.723 –> 00:59:56.743
Alex James O’Connor: And that to me is the thing where you’re like, if you know when you have to have to, and there’s almost like a, this is it.

00:59:56.743 –> 00:59:58.383
Alex James O’Connor: That to me is genuinely the thing.

00:59:58.583 –> 01:00:05.723
Alex James O’Connor: And locking in, I know it’s painful, I know it’s tough and when there’s a million excuses as an artist and as a writer to try and, it’s just not easy.

01:00:05.723 –> 01:00:10.743
Alex James O’Connor: I know it’s not easy, but it’s that thing, that kind of anti-autistic thing that’s like, let’s get this done.

01:00:10.743 –> 01:00:15.603
Alex James O’Connor: If you really want to, if you have something that’s special and you don’t know how to finish it, it’s just having a bit of discipline.

01:00:15.603 –> 01:00:18.363
Alex James O’Connor: For me personally, but I know how it feels.

01:00:18.363 –> 01:00:24.763
Alex James O’Connor: I know for four years you can sit on something and be like, I don’t know, and that’s scary too, but you can make it out the other side for sure.

01:00:24.763 –> 01:00:38.063
John Kennedy: And in terms of the production decisions, because obviously a lot of ideas are coming through, people are creating individual things, and does it stay that way for X amount of time because the final decision rests with you?

01:00:38.883 –> 01:00:43.403
John Kennedy: So when they’re coming through with these ideas, and you’re thinking, oh yeah, that’s great, let’s keep that.

01:00:43.403 –> 01:00:48.403
John Kennedy: And then you keep that until that next decision that needs to be made.

01:00:48.403 –> 01:00:55.163
John Kennedy: But ultimately, because it rests with you, that’s when Jim or Teo is turning to you and say, you really need to make this decision.

01:00:55.163 –> 01:00:56.103
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:00:56.103 –> 01:01:02.903
Alex James O’Connor: No, it is there, and it’s on me, and thankfully for Jim and Teo, that’s equally kind of part of it.

01:01:02.903 –> 01:01:04.583
Alex James O’Connor: I think that’s collaboration in a way.

01:01:04.583 –> 01:01:14.423
Alex James O’Connor: I have to know when it’s what I’m happy with and what I’m willing to put out into the world with my face and name on it, but at the same time, sometimes you don’t know, you could ruminate.

01:01:14.423 –> 01:01:17.883
Alex James O’Connor: If you’re starting to run by yourself and keep going, you might not finish it.

01:01:17.883 –> 01:01:27.623
Alex James O’Connor: I do think there’s the idea of having a friend there or someone you work with or a sounding board that can be guiding you a little bit, and you ask them the question, just like, what do you think on this?

01:01:27.623 –> 01:01:28.443
Alex James O’Connor: I need to make a decision.

01:01:28.443 –> 01:01:30.363
Alex James O’Connor: It’s either in or out.

01:01:30.363 –> 01:01:31.303
Alex James O’Connor: Do you have a feeling on it?

01:01:31.303 –> 01:01:34.663
Alex James O’Connor: And if they do, then just being like, it kind of answers your question.

01:01:34.783 –> 01:01:37.503
Alex James O’Connor: If they say it shouldn’t be there and you’re like, but I want it there, then you want it there.

01:01:37.503 –> 01:01:38.023
Alex James O’Connor: You know what I mean?

01:01:38.023 –> 01:01:41.903
Alex James O’Connor: Or if they’re like, it should be in you, and you’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, then you knew.

01:01:41.903 –> 01:01:43.763
Alex James O’Connor: Sometimes you need help with the decision, I suppose.

01:01:43.763 –> 01:01:52.683
Alex James O’Connor: But I learned that from just like, again, every day it would just be decisions every day and trying to, there was a post-it note that said, make decisions swiftly and without overthinking.

01:01:52.683 –> 01:01:54.743
Alex James O’Connor: I think it was, which is a good one.

01:01:54.743 –> 01:01:57.723
John Kennedy: So we’re looking at 2008.

01:01:57.723 –> 01:01:59.223
John Kennedy: We fast forward a little time.

01:01:59.223 –> 01:02:05.163
John Kennedy: You’re now in that zone in January, February, making these decisions, forcing yourself to finish things.

01:02:05.303 –> 01:02:09.523
John Kennedy: And so there were a few extra things that you were going to add to the recordings you’d already made.

01:02:09.523 –> 01:02:16.663
Jim Reed: Yeah, I think, as Alex mentioned, it was a pretty simple song, just harmonically.

01:02:16.663 –> 01:02:22.163
Jim Reed: And arrangement-wise, with the instrumental, there wasn’t actually too many things going on.

01:02:22.163 –> 01:02:26.083
Jim Reed: So we wanted to stay true to that because it just felt great.

01:02:26.083 –> 01:02:27.243
Jim Reed: It just felt really good how it was.

01:02:27.243 –> 01:02:28.683
Jim Reed: So we didn’t feel like we needed to do much.

01:02:28.683 –> 01:02:36.463
Jim Reed: But dynamically, I think we wanted to add things that didn’t stand out too much but just lifted it a little bit.

01:02:36.463 –> 01:02:47.863
Jim Reed: So, for example, in the second verse, there’s this moog and guitar thing that you can’t really hear on the record, but it kind of just worked.

01:02:47.863 –> 01:02:48.763
Jim Reed: But it doesn’t do much.

01:02:48.763 –> 01:02:49.283
Jim Reed: It’s kind of a…

01:02:50.023 –> 01:02:51.403
Jim Reed: I’ll play it.

01:02:53.403 –> 01:02:57.923
Jim Reed: And it blends with the sample, you know.

01:03:00.363 –> 01:03:10.143
Jim Reed: It kind of becomes part of it but without them, you lose that roomy thing again and just that extra harmonic information.

01:03:10.143 –> 01:03:20.883
Jim Reed: So there was a lot of things like that added throughout and sort of just like risers going into different sections just to break them up and kind of drum fills.

01:03:20.883 –> 01:03:26.843
Jim Reed: And then towards the end, I don’t know how you ever felt, but I always saw this as like a rock song.

01:03:26.843 –> 01:03:30.543
Jim Reed: And I remember you kind of being like, let’s not make it too rocky.

01:03:30.543 –> 01:03:31.303
Jim Reed: So I was like, okay, cool.

01:03:31.303 –> 01:03:37.323
Jim Reed: How do we make it kind of like a bit more gritty, but not go down just like heavy, heavy guitars.

01:03:37.323 –> 01:03:39.323
Jim Reed: And Alex had, what’s your Moog?

01:03:40.463 –> 01:03:40.863
Alex James O’Connor: Model D.

01:03:40.863 –> 01:03:41.603
Jim Reed: The Model D, yeah.

01:03:41.603 –> 01:03:44.963
Jim Reed: We had that running through Alex’s pedalboard.

01:03:44.963 –> 01:03:58.823
Jim Reed: So I just started, I just said to Tom Archer, incredible engineer and human, who was engineering the sessions for the whole of Jan and Feb, I was just like, let me just go through the pedals.

01:03:58.823 –> 01:04:07.823
Jim Reed: And just like, I was just going, running back and forth, playing a little line, capturing it on like the mood or like the blooper, which again, was actually a huge part.

01:04:07.823 –> 01:04:08.523
Alex James O’Connor: Shout out to Chase Bliss.

01:04:08.523 –> 01:04:10.023
Jim Reed: Yeah, shout out to Chase Bliss for real.

01:04:11.403 –> 01:04:15.143
Jim Reed: They gave us sounds that we never knew we could create.

01:04:15.143 –> 01:04:22.683
Jim Reed: So one of the things at the end of the song, it kind of goes pretty rocky, like here.

01:04:29.128 –> 01:04:36.028
Jim Reed: This isn’t the final thing, but what was put in was these, basically, these were all just like moog ad parts.

01:04:40.068 –> 01:04:40.868
Jim Reed: Which we loved.

01:04:40.868 –> 01:04:49.128
Jim Reed: And it just brought up that kind of gritty thing without having to go down a really rocky guitar route or whatever.

01:04:49.128 –> 01:04:49.908
Jim Reed: Yeah, that was really fun.

01:04:49.908 –> 01:04:53.048
Jim Reed: But honestly, not a crazy amount was added.

01:04:53.048 –> 01:04:56.908
Jim Reed: It was just small ad prodi kind of things.

01:04:56.908 –> 01:04:58.668
Jim Reed: But yeah, it was great.

01:04:58.788 –> 01:05:01.768
John Kennedy: So in a way, some more musical information was needed.

01:05:01.768 –> 01:05:07.608
John Kennedy: It didn’t need to be radically changed or adjusted, but somehow needed to be compounded.

01:05:07.608 –> 01:05:16.128
Alex James O’Connor: Exactly, it kind of enhanced, I suppose, just like an hug by these extra sort of support parts, rather than, you know, it wasn’t, yeah, again, not a drastic change.

01:05:16.128 –> 01:05:18.408
Alex James O’Connor: And we learned, yeah, we’d have to make those decisions.

01:05:18.408 –> 01:05:22.588
Alex James O’Connor: And the demo tells you a lot, but it’s within you to go there.

01:05:22.588 –> 01:05:23.928
Alex James O’Connor: You can go, you could have gone either way.

01:05:23.928 –> 01:05:26.988
Alex James O’Connor: It could have gone super heavy, that song, if you wanted it to, or all the way down.

01:05:26.988 –> 01:05:28.108
Alex James O’Connor: You can arrange it in whatever way.

01:05:28.208 –> 01:05:30.788
Alex James O’Connor: But I’m super happy with how it ended up.

01:05:31.268 –> 01:05:32.548
John Kennedy: Yeah, it sounds great.

01:05:32.548 –> 01:05:37.528
John Kennedy: Maybe we should hear another Blast The Master to round things up.

01:05:37.528 –> 01:05:39.388
John Kennedy: And we can move on to our next section.

01:06:39.968 –> 01:06:42.388
John Kennedy: Will you be playing that, or will you be pressing a program?

01:06:42.388 –> 01:06:43.368
John Kennedy: You’ll be playing that.

01:06:43.368 –> 01:06:44.908
Jim Reed: This will be super fun to play.

01:06:44.908 –> 01:06:50.228
John Kennedy: The idea that it could be rocked up in some way, do you think you will be making it more rocky?

01:06:50.505 –> 01:06:54.165
Alex James O’Connor: Absolutely, yeah, we were in Roe Hussle just before we came here.

01:06:54.165 –> 01:06:58.805
Alex James O’Connor: So I mean, yeah, that one is drums, but you’re playing more than just drums in the show.

01:06:58.805 –> 01:07:02.805
Alex James O’Connor: Jim’s playing some guitar as well and touching some pedals here and there.

01:07:02.805 –> 01:07:04.925
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, this one is certainly rocked up.

01:07:04.925 –> 01:07:07.105
John Kennedy: Yeah, we’re gonna take a quick break.

01:07:07.105 –> 01:07:10.445
John Kennedy: The third song we’re going to look at is Much Too Much.

01:07:10.445 –> 01:07:12.825
Alex James O’Connor: True.

01:07:12.825 –> 01:07:14.925
John Kennedy: Time for a quick Tape It feature highlight.

01:07:14.925 –> 01:07:17.525
John Kennedy: Did you know that while you’re recording, you can drop markers?

01:07:17.525 –> 01:07:19.405
John Kennedy: No more scrolling through endless voice notes.

01:07:19.785 –> 01:07:22.745
John Kennedy: Once you’ve finished, you can go back to the markers to find your best bits.

01:07:22.745 –> 01:07:26.525
John Kennedy: You can also name your markers if there’s a specific note you want to add.

01:07:26.525 –> 01:07:34.045
John Kennedy: To find out more, head to the link in a recent episode, Show Notes, or use the promo code Tapenotes for 50% off Tape It Pro.

01:07:35.945 –> 01:07:39.785
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at from The Alexander Technique is Much Too Much.

01:07:39.785 –> 01:07:44.625
John Kennedy: So again, I’ll request Jim to play us Blaster the Master.

01:07:44.625 –> 01:07:45.385
John Kennedy: Master Blaster.

01:08:56.010 –> 01:08:58.790
John Kennedy: That is Much Too Much by Rex Orange County.

01:08:58.790 –> 01:09:03.430
John Kennedy: And that’s another example of a load of other stuff going on, a load of crazy things.

01:09:03.430 –> 01:09:04.290
John Kennedy: It’s really exciting.

01:09:04.290 –> 01:09:06.850
John Kennedy: Again, a different kind of sounding vocal there.

01:09:06.850 –> 01:09:10.550
John Kennedy: And on this song, I think, Teo wasn’t involved in recording this.

01:09:10.550 –> 01:09:18.010
John Kennedy: And there’s some kind of strange synchronicity because our connection to Teo in Los Angeles, California has failed.

01:09:18.010 –> 01:09:21.470
John Kennedy: So we can’t consult him further.

01:09:21.470 –> 01:09:23.290
John Kennedy: But this was just the two of you working on this.

01:09:23.290 –> 01:09:23.750
John Kennedy: Is that right?

01:09:23.970 –> 01:09:24.310
Alex James O’Connor: That’s right.

01:09:24.310 –> 01:09:31.970
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, this is Jim and I also in Studio 13, but at a very different time and not in the same room, in the small room upstairs that Jim was hiring.

01:09:31.970 –> 01:09:48.290
Alex James O’Connor: And yeah, again, this was another, all three of these are actually ones that were done in one day, create like the original idea starting in one whole day and then time going by, listening to it and being like, okay, wait, how do I, how do we re-enter into this and finish it off type of thing?

01:09:48.290 –> 01:09:50.910
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, it’s a very, this is a strange one, an interesting one.

01:09:50.990 –> 01:09:55.010
Alex James O’Connor: It was recorded a lot slower, which is why it sounds that way.

01:09:55.010 –> 01:09:55.310
John Kennedy: Right.

01:09:55.310 –> 01:09:58.270
Alex James O’Connor: And we have the OG here if you want to hear.

01:09:58.270 –> 01:09:59.710
John Kennedy: Yeah, I’d love to hear that.

01:09:59.710 –> 01:10:10.150
John Kennedy: Because I mean, you’re an extraordinary vocalist, Alex, so I wasn’t sure whether, is this pitch control, is it something happening here, or was this just Alex demonstrating his amazing talents?

01:10:10.150 –> 01:10:18.350
Alex James O’Connor: So originally it was like pitched up a bunch and then I ended up, I think, I don’t even know if we, did we bring it down and then I sing to it or we just recorded it real slow?

01:10:18.350 –> 01:10:26.610
Jim Reed: I think we recorded it slowly, because I don’t think I could play that guitar at that speed at that point.

01:10:26.630 –> 01:10:45.590
Jim Reed: And again, this was just, I came with the first sort of round of chords and then I was definitely a bit like, I don’t know how far I can go, I don’t know where my guitar skills can take me, but Alex had faith and was also very just like, just keep going, like we can do this, kind of like guitar song how.

01:10:45.590 –> 01:10:52.050
Jim Reed: He was just like, all right, let’s add another chord here, let’s go here, let’s go here, let’s go back to the main chords, but change them a little bit.

01:10:52.050 –> 01:10:56.170
Jim Reed: And then it was kind of that Alexander Technique thing.

01:10:56.170 –> 01:10:58.190
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, that was the whole day though, we were just playing guitar.

01:10:58.950 –> 01:11:00.790
Alex James O’Connor: The whole session was just writing the part.

01:11:00.790 –> 01:11:10.490
Jim Reed: And yeah, again, just like with 2008 guitar song and quite a few other songs on this record, Alex just started freestyling over it.

01:11:10.490 –> 01:11:20.430
Jim Reed: And we only have two other full takes and there were a couple where I can see here, he would have just been like, all right, yeah, go again.

01:11:20.450 –> 01:11:26.810
Jim Reed: And on the last, on take 10, he just came out with this whole thing.

01:11:26.810 –> 01:11:33.990
Jim Reed: And apart from write this tiny little section right here, this melody became the melody of the song.

01:11:33.990 –> 01:11:38.410
Jim Reed: So it sounded like this at the original speed.

01:12:08.590 –> 01:12:16.930
Jim Reed: I don’t know if we, you did this whole take and we then sped it up and then made all the edits or we made all the edits slow and then sped it up.

01:12:16.930 –> 01:12:17.590
Alex James O’Connor: That’s what we had to do.

01:12:17.590 –> 01:12:18.830
Alex James O’Connor: This is where it became kind of tricky.

01:12:18.830 –> 01:12:25.090
Alex James O’Connor: So you start that slow and then we, having recorded all the guitars and recorded that one whole take, speed it up.

01:12:25.090 –> 01:12:33.490
Alex James O’Connor: And it has a whole new life, which is what you hear kind of in the original, which is just in a different key, in a different tempo and a different feeling harmonically.

01:12:33.490 –> 01:12:36.290
John Kennedy: Are we able to hear that before you add the other things?

01:12:36.570 –> 01:12:38.590
Alex James O’Connor: Of course, yeah, how it sounded when we sped it up.

01:12:38.690 –> 01:12:41.050
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, yeah, on that, yeah.

01:12:53.750 –> 01:12:56.250
John Kennedy: And what was the original impetus to speed it up?

01:12:56.250 –> 01:12:59.990
John Kennedy: Was it, you thought the guitar part should be faster or?

01:12:59.990 –> 01:13:00.370
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, I mean.

01:13:00.810 –> 01:13:02.830
John Kennedy: Or was it just like, let’s see what it sounds like?

01:13:02.830 –> 01:13:08.890
Alex James O’Connor: So yeah, to be fair, I’m pretty obsessed with very speed and just like, I love how it feels to speed things up and slow things down.

01:13:09.010 –> 01:13:14.550
Alex James O’Connor: And to me, if you have one chord sequence and take it up into a different key, it feels entirely different.

01:13:14.550 –> 01:13:21.050
Alex James O’Connor: Some people would disagree, but I personally feel like you can have the exact same thing happen in a different speed or a different key and it really feels different.

01:13:21.050 –> 01:13:23.470
Alex James O’Connor: So I probably just experimenting first.

01:13:23.470 –> 01:13:26.890
Alex James O’Connor: And then, I mean, on reflection, the part is so slow, it’s unbelievable.

01:13:26.890 –> 01:13:32.250
Alex James O’Connor: I mean, it’s so low and so slow that I’m like, thank God we sped this up because it is really slow.

01:13:32.250 –> 01:13:37.250
Alex James O’Connor: But I suppose it was made partly necessary and partly just playing around with the pole.

01:13:37.250 –> 01:13:57.390
Jim Reed: And we actually, when we re-recorded the vocals, we did run into a lot of problems because it was too, the register you, the vocal was at once we sped it up was too high for Alex to re-record when Alex had lyrics for the song because for so long, we’d done most of the production for this song.

01:13:58.070 –> 01:14:01.630
Jim Reed: Before you did the final take.

01:14:02.750 –> 01:14:14.610
Jim Reed: And there was just a lot of like pitching down or like slowing down, but then your vocal had to be altar boyed or, you know, it was really weird.

01:14:14.610 –> 01:14:26.870
Jim Reed: So in the, in the final vocal take, there are a lot of weird artifacts that came from a little altar boy taking the formant down, which I re, I really like.

01:14:26.870 –> 01:14:27.810
Jim Reed: I think it’s cool.

01:14:27.990 –> 01:14:30.610
Jim Reed: The artifacts can almost be quite percussive sometimes.

01:14:30.610 –> 01:14:31.950
Jim Reed: They’re quite like sharp.

01:14:31.950 –> 01:14:35.070
Jim Reed: And there’s parts of this song that are very like percussive.

01:14:35.070 –> 01:14:35.870
Jim Reed: And I think it suits it.

01:14:35.870 –> 01:14:37.910
Jim Reed: And yeah, I thought I wasn’t mad at it.

01:14:37.910 –> 01:14:41.010
Jim Reed: At first I was a bit weirded out, but I quite liked that.

01:14:41.010 –> 01:14:41.670
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah.

01:14:41.730 –> 01:14:51.250
Alex James O’Connor: There was definitely a process though of like having the demo vocal and then trying to, so we didn’t, we then like slowed it, but nowhere near as much as it originally was.

01:14:51.250 –> 01:14:54.470
Alex James O’Connor: Slowed it like, like kind of just somewhere less.

01:14:55.170 –> 01:14:56.570
Alex James O’Connor: And then sung it there.

01:14:56.570 –> 01:14:59.650
Alex James O’Connor: Cause it was like, I want to say, I want it to be close enough to the key.

01:14:59.650 –> 01:15:04.430
Alex James O’Connor: Like the key that we’d sped up to in the first place, that’s what we want to end up, but it’s just too high for me to get there.

01:15:04.430 –> 01:15:05.850
Alex James O’Connor: So we’ll bring it down a bit.

01:15:05.850 –> 01:15:08.570
Alex James O’Connor: So that that form of that chipmunk thing isn’t too present.

01:15:08.570 –> 01:15:14.690
Alex James O’Connor: And that the, yeah, it’s, it got a bit complex at times, but ultimately just trying to do something quite simple.

01:15:14.690 –> 01:15:16.970
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, it gets like that.

01:15:16.970 –> 01:15:26.810
John Kennedy: And then with the guitars, I think, I mean, should we, cause we should hear both the way the guitars were changed and also the way these vocals were changed.

01:15:26.810 –> 01:15:31.430
John Kennedy: So I mean, what should we hear first, which is a better context.

01:15:31.430 –> 01:15:38.390
Jim Reed: So I think you kind of heard how the vocals changed.

01:15:38.390 –> 01:15:42.330
Alex James O’Connor: Maybe just hear that solo, the original vocal and the new vocal.

01:15:42.330 –> 01:15:43.030
Jim Reed: Yeah.

01:15:43.030 –> 01:15:46.390
Jim Reed: So this is the original, that got sped up.

01:15:46.390 –> 01:15:48.010
Jim Reed: So this is what we went off for ages.

01:15:59.850 –> 01:16:02.390
Alex James O’Connor: I take these effects off as well.

01:16:02.390 –> 01:16:03.570
Jim Reed: You’ll hear.

01:16:09.810 –> 01:16:18.850
Alex James O’Connor: You get those weird sort of formant artifacts that are kind of chippy and I don’t know what it’s called.

01:16:18.850 –> 01:16:24.590
Jim Reed: And then the final vocal sounded like this.

01:16:35.750 –> 01:16:37.330
Jim Reed: So you can still tell it’s like pitched up.

01:16:37.330 –> 01:16:39.250
Jim Reed: Yeah, it’s quite a bit cleaner.

01:16:40.970 –> 01:16:42.950
John Kennedy: But it has a lot of echo, is it?

01:16:43.690 –> 01:16:44.590
Jim Reed: Yeah.

01:16:44.590 –> 01:16:49.550
Jim Reed: So I think on this OG one, but on a particular delay.

01:16:49.550 –> 01:16:51.590
Jim Reed: Yeah.

01:16:51.590 –> 01:16:55.670
Jim Reed: I had the Effect Rack.

01:16:55.670 –> 01:17:07.770
Jim Reed: OK, Effect Rack doesn’t want to be opening right now, but I believe it’s a setting that I tweaked a little bit that I really love called Echo Boys Galaxy on the Echo Boy thing on Effect Rack by Soundtoys.

01:17:07.770 –> 01:17:12.290
Jim Reed: And then it would have been probably this reverb on Valhalla.

01:17:12.990 –> 01:17:14.710
Jim Reed: Oh, 300 Large Hall.

01:17:14.710 –> 01:17:18.350
Jim Reed: Yeah, just like pretty simple preset.

01:17:18.370 –> 01:17:23.330
Jim Reed: And another Effect Rack situation.

01:17:23.330 –> 01:17:25.450
Jim Reed: Oh, a little slap for some reason.

01:17:25.450 –> 01:17:26.950
Jim Reed: We loved using slap as well.

01:17:26.950 –> 01:17:31.850
Jim Reed: That was part of the whole room kind of sound.

01:17:31.850 –> 01:17:33.970
Jim Reed: We really liked that for some reason.

01:17:33.970 –> 01:17:40.230
Jim Reed: And yeah, I think we tried to translate that as best as we could in the Pro Tools session.

01:17:40.230 –> 01:17:41.670
Jim Reed: We probably dialed it back a little bit.

01:17:42.490 –> 01:17:43.190
Jim Reed: Just to fit it in.

01:17:43.190 –> 01:17:52.410
Jim Reed: But yeah, it was a pretty lengthy process of getting the vocals down for this song.

01:17:52.410 –> 01:17:53.770
Alex James O’Connor: There’s a lot of BVs too.

01:17:53.770 –> 01:17:55.110
Jim Reed: Loads of BVs.

01:17:55.110 –> 01:17:58.510
John Kennedy: Yeah, because it kind of goes off into Jacob Collier territory or something.

01:17:58.510 –> 01:18:00.090
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, like a whole lot of vocals.

01:18:00.090 –> 01:18:10.890
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, it’s definitely, that’s probably down to the first bit of writing so many chords, I suppose, and trying to make it quite expensive harmonically and not just stay in one place.

01:18:11.070 –> 01:18:17.510
Alex James O’Connor: You know, same with guitar song, I suppose, like wanting to really put the effort into just harmonically where it’s going.

01:18:17.510 –> 01:18:34.990
Alex James O’Connor: And then that kind of gives you a landscape then to sing over the, that can actually quite quickly become a lot more advanced than it is, I suppose, because you’ve just put slightly more time into adding a bit more in the harmony and then actually just, yeah, it can uncover itself quite easily.

01:18:34.990 –> 01:18:41.770
Alex James O’Connor: I sometimes feel like it’s already there and I’m just etching, scratching it to try and see it more clearly by singing it.

01:18:42.090 –> 01:18:45.930
Alex James O’Connor: It’s kind of already there, I’m just grabbing, if you know what I mean.

01:18:45.930 –> 01:19:09.430
Jim Reed: I think we were still probably inspired by the vocals you did on Guitar Song as well, because a lot of these harmonies and vocal stackings were very, they resembled a lot of the things I think you did in Guitar Song, like these, who’s hit, it’s pretty.

01:19:10.970 –> 01:19:13.110
Jim Reed: The, the I Know’s.

01:19:13.110 –> 01:19:13.750
Alex James O’Connor: Oh yeah.

01:19:13.750 –> 01:19:15.490
Jim Reed: Yeah, I like these.

01:19:28.055 –> 01:19:33.415
Jim Reed: Yeah, it was just a lot of experimentation and freedom and just kind of throwing paint at the wall.

01:19:33.455 –> 01:19:38.715
Jim Reed: And it was a very turbulent track in terms of like where it was going.

01:19:38.715 –> 01:19:39.055
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah.

01:19:39.375 –> 01:19:45.695
Jim Reed: Like instrumentation-wise, it starts off with this sort of folky, I don’t know what you would call it, like these chords and-

01:19:45.695 –> 01:19:50.055
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, I suppose it’s like folk and like, I mean, I don’t know really, it’s just straight harmony.

01:19:50.055 –> 01:19:54.395
Jim Reed: And then it just develops into a sort of bossa section, which became really fun.

01:19:54.495 –> 01:20:01.595
Jim Reed: And then sort of ended with this very grandiose string arrangement with flutes and gramophone and stuff like that.

01:20:01.595 –> 01:20:05.195
Alex James O’Connor: And your guitar also, you redid your guitar at rec in the studio one.

01:20:05.195 –> 01:20:08.355
Alex James O’Connor: And that was a great time actually, we just like did doubles.

01:20:08.355 –> 01:20:16.115
Alex James O’Connor: And yeah, I remember you mentioning like you wanted someone else to come and play it, like wanted like a serious guitarist to come and play it crazy.

01:20:16.115 –> 01:20:20.415
Alex James O’Connor: But it was like, it’s your part in From the Ground Up, that was like something that you can play the best.

01:20:20.415 –> 01:20:21.815
Alex James O’Connor: I couldn’t even really play that shit.

01:20:21.915 –> 01:20:27.095
Alex James O’Connor: So that had to be you sat there and that room was really perfect for it.

01:20:27.095 –> 01:20:27.715
Jim Reed: Yeah.

01:20:27.715 –> 01:20:28.315
Alex James O’Connor: For those guitars.

01:20:28.315 –> 01:20:29.915
Jim Reed: And we tried out three different guitars.

01:20:29.915 –> 01:20:33.595
Alex James O’Connor: Oh yeah, we tried out three different guitars with just like blind, kind of blind testing.

01:20:33.595 –> 01:20:39.735
Alex James O’Connor: And one that was sort of technically really nice, one that was, I would have maybe been like, I don’t know about this and one that I’ve never heard of.

01:20:39.735 –> 01:20:42.515
Alex James O’Connor: And it was the one that I was like, I don’t know, was definitely the one.

01:20:42.515 –> 01:20:48.155
Alex James O’Connor: And it’s sometimes, I think you have to just not judge by what you think, you know, you have to sometimes just go off your ears.

01:20:48.155 –> 01:20:50.395
Jim Reed: And it was actually straight away, we were like, oh yeah, this is it.

01:20:50.395 –> 01:20:51.115
Alex James O’Connor: This is what it is.

01:20:51.395 –> 01:21:02.255
Jim Reed: Because the first guitar that I was using in my studio at Studio 13 was this, my friend Lloyd’s guitar who I was sharing with at the time.

01:21:02.255 –> 01:21:07.095
Jim Reed: And it was just like a DI, like we were just DI’ing an acoustic, I didn’t have any mics or anything like that.

01:21:07.095 –> 01:21:12.155
Jim Reed: So it was this strange sound that was like very close and very clean.

01:21:12.155 –> 01:21:24.635
Jim Reed: And the nice thing I think about recording acoustic guitars, you get that kind of that room sound, you get the scratch from the, you know, your hand on it and the strings and the sound from the original guitar was quite strange.

01:21:24.635 –> 01:21:30.695
Jim Reed: But when we started recording the new guitar, Rack, we were like, wow, this sounds great.

01:21:30.695 –> 01:21:36.895
Jim Reed: But we were still, I think we were so attached to the demo that we were still like, it would be nice to just have those OG ones in there.

01:21:37.055 –> 01:21:41.215
Jim Reed: And then it was so it became a blend of the original, of the two guitars.

01:21:42.675 –> 01:21:43.855
Jim Reed: But the…

01:21:44.155 –> 01:21:44.995
John Kennedy: We should hit them.

01:21:44.995 –> 01:21:49.355
Jim Reed: Yeah, I was going to say that they really gave it a new life.

01:21:49.355 –> 01:21:50.055
Alex James O’Connor: Let me find these.

01:22:02.402 –> 01:22:06.462
Jim Reed: They’re the new ones without the original, and then the original is…

01:22:10.562 –> 01:22:11.662
Jim Reed: Gave this…

01:22:11.662 –> 01:22:13.342
Alex James O’Connor: A 12-string type thing, a chorus-y thing.

01:22:13.342 –> 01:22:16.342
Jim Reed: Yeah, kind of just like chorus-y kind of thing.

01:22:16.342 –> 01:22:27.562
Jim Reed: It just added a nice layer to it, but yeah, we were really happy about that, and it was quite a long process of me trying to get it right, but we got there, and we were really happy.

01:22:27.562 –> 01:22:38.302
Alex James O’Connor: And also, speaking of legendary studios, we hit Abbey Road Studio 2 for the strings, which is very, very iconic, and one room I’ve always, always wanted to be in, regardless of whether we got to record or not.

01:22:38.302 –> 01:22:40.462
Alex James O’Connor: I just was so lucky to even walk in the room.

01:22:40.462 –> 01:22:42.442
Alex James O’Connor: And yeah, I’ve drawn strings before, done them at Air.

01:22:42.442 –> 01:22:45.342
Alex James O’Connor: I’ve also done them at a small studio called Snap, which is in North London.

01:22:45.342 –> 01:22:48.482
Alex James O’Connor: It’s really great, and I record a lot of Apricot Princess there.

01:22:48.482 –> 01:22:50.882
Alex James O’Connor: And yeah, Abbey Road was kind of top tier to me.

01:22:50.882 –> 01:23:01.602
Alex James O’Connor: I know there’s one as well, which is for 80 people or whatever, but yeah, it’s with Sally Herbert, who arranged and wrote some strings on the album across like six songs, I think, maybe seven.

01:23:01.602 –> 01:23:02.542
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah.

01:23:02.542 –> 01:23:11.602
Alex James O’Connor: Amazing day from like, you know, just like Christmas day, like just like, Wake Up, I was waking up so early, just so ready and just like on my way to Abbey Road, like so excited.

01:23:11.602 –> 01:23:15.902
Alex James O’Connor: And this one has probably one of the more beautiful string parts on as well.

01:23:15.902 –> 01:23:16.802
Jim Reed: Yeah.

01:23:16.802 –> 01:23:17.902
Alex James O’Connor: For outro.

01:23:17.902 –> 01:23:19.222
Jim Reed: Which will we play them on their own?

01:23:19.642 –> 01:23:20.582
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, themselves is nice.

01:24:02.306 –> 01:24:03.286
Jim Reed: And they were doubled too.

01:24:03.286 –> 01:24:04.726
Jim Reed: We were quite nervous.

01:24:05.426 –> 01:24:08.506
Jim Reed: We didn’t want it to feel like a film score.

01:24:08.506 –> 01:24:10.246
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, it’s probably one of the most cinematic ones.

01:24:11.946 –> 01:24:14.706
Alex James O’Connor: They’re all beautiful, but that one’s like probably one of the most sort of cinematic.

01:24:14.706 –> 01:24:15.246
Jim Reed: Yeah.

01:24:15.246 –> 01:24:24.506
John Kennedy: And did you try and mix them in with the other recordings, or did you, how did you marry that up with what you’d already done?

01:24:24.506 –> 01:24:33.246
Alex James O’Connor: There was a, we had a demo string, I think it was a decision that was like earlier, before going into every role and being like, there should be strings.

01:24:33.406 –> 01:24:37.406
Alex James O’Connor: And I think it was done with just sort of like Spitfire patches, which are amazing actually.

01:24:37.406 –> 01:24:43.246
Alex James O’Connor: I’ve got this one pack that’s incredible from Spitfire and did a demo version of strings just on a MIDI keyboard.

01:24:43.246 –> 01:24:55.166
Alex James O’Connor: And yeah, Sally would interpret a lot of the demo versions of just like either just with an audio file, which blows my mind, or I would sometimes be able to give her some MIDI and she could point out what notes were happening.

01:24:55.306 –> 01:25:03.686
Alex James O’Connor: But yeah, on the whole, she’s incredibly, incredibly talented when it comes to just like transcribing and working out what we were trying to achieve.

01:25:03.686 –> 01:25:04.886
Alex James O’Connor: And she has her flavor as well.

01:25:04.886 –> 01:25:07.306
Alex James O’Connor: And then it changes certain things to give it her voice.

01:25:07.306 –> 01:25:11.626
Alex James O’Connor: So really lucky to get to work with her and to get to work in that room.

01:25:11.626 –> 01:25:14.546
John Kennedy: Yeah, that’s kind of dreams come true, isn’t it?

01:25:14.546 –> 01:25:23.706
John Kennedy: Maybe we should hear them within the context of the song, or maybe just a little snippet of say that samba section, just to see that, because it goes on such a journey.

01:25:23.846 –> 01:25:24.906
Jim Reed: It does, it really does, yeah.

01:25:24.906 –> 01:25:32.266
Alex James O’Connor: There’s also some parts in there, from Ruben James again, to mention who he played on my grand piano at home, which was very special, actually.

01:25:32.266 –> 01:25:39.046
Jim Reed: We also actually found out that your living room sounded incredible, just as a room, just as a live room.

01:25:39.046 –> 01:25:48.846
Jim Reed: We recorded sax, bass clarinet, clarinet flute, grand piano, double bass, CP-80, CP-70, sorry.

01:25:48.846 –> 01:25:49.386
Jim Reed: So much.

01:25:49.646 –> 01:25:51.226
John Kennedy: All in your living room in Notting Hill.

01:25:51.226 –> 01:25:51.806
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, exactly.

01:25:51.806 –> 01:25:52.286
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:25:52.286 –> 01:25:52.966
Alex James O’Connor: I had the piano.

01:25:52.966 –> 01:25:53.606
Alex James O’Connor: I got a grand piano.

01:25:53.606 –> 01:25:56.326
Alex James O’Connor: It had to be craned in the window, for real.

01:25:56.326 –> 01:25:59.286
Alex James O’Connor: And then, yeah, and the studio is upstairs, but you can patch in downstairs.

01:25:59.286 –> 01:26:01.886
Alex James O’Connor: So my living room is just like the live room kind of thing.

01:26:01.886 –> 01:26:03.086
Jim Reed: So even vocals.

01:26:03.086 –> 01:26:04.506
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, vocals are real nice as well.

01:26:04.506 –> 01:26:11.186
Alex James O’Connor: But you’re stuck with that reverb though, unless you know, I don’t have any baffles, but yeah, it’s pretty much, it’s a pretty live sounding room.

01:26:11.186 –> 01:26:14.626
Jim Reed: And also, yeah, we’ll get into what Ruben was doing.

01:26:14.626 –> 01:26:18.386
Jim Reed: But again, we had Michael just going off on flute.

01:26:18.866 –> 01:26:21.046
Jim Reed: We just were like, keep going round and round.

01:26:21.046 –> 01:26:22.406
Jim Reed: He did a solo on it.

01:26:22.406 –> 01:26:24.466
Jim Reed: Did you want to hear the strings in context?

01:26:24.526 –> 01:26:28.326
John Kennedy: Well, I guess they’re near the end, so maybe we could kind of work towards them.

01:26:28.326 –> 01:26:28.626
Jim Reed: Great.

01:26:28.626 –> 01:26:34.586
John Kennedy: But just quite quickly, just so that, and you can talk us through it as saying who’s doing what.

01:26:34.586 –> 01:26:35.046
John Kennedy: For sure.

01:26:35.406 –> 01:26:35.506
Jim Reed: So.

01:26:43.188 –> 01:26:44.168
Alex James O’Connor: The Jim on all the guitars.

01:27:04.656 –> 01:27:08.476
John Kennedy: So, those vocals that we’re hearing now, that’s all you and him?

01:27:08.476 –> 01:27:10.676
Alex James O’Connor: That’s all me again, yeah.

01:27:10.676 –> 01:27:19.656
Alex James O’Connor: There’s like a whole lot of vocals going on, there’s a whole lot of different piano styles going on as well, that create kind of like two choir things going on.

01:27:19.676 –> 01:27:21.096
Alex James O’Connor: I’m trying to figure out if you can solo anything.

01:27:21.096 –> 01:27:23.096
Jim Reed: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

01:27:23.096 –> 01:27:38.296
Jim Reed: But that was another thing where we had to be careful not to add too much, because when you have someone like Ruben James and Michael on the same song, and me and Alex are both like, you know, kids in a candy shop being like, yeah, yeah, play more, play more.

01:27:38.296 –> 01:27:40.036
Jim Reed: You end up with way too much.

01:27:40.036 –> 01:27:40.896
Jim Reed: And we did.

01:27:40.916 –> 01:27:51.916
Jim Reed: And it was quite sad, actually, to hone it in, because we were like, obviously, we want to hear all of this, but also, you know, you can’t have everything.

01:27:51.916 –> 01:27:53.936
Jim Reed: But yeah, this was…

01:27:53.936 –> 01:27:54.696
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, play Bums.

01:27:54.696 –> 01:27:55.116
Jim Reed: Bums.

01:28:07.296 –> 01:28:09.156
Alex James O’Connor: And then what else is Ruben doing there, actually?

01:28:09.156 –> 01:28:12.936
Jim Reed: So Ruben is going berserk.

01:28:12.936 –> 01:28:14.016
Jim Reed: He started…

01:28:14.016 –> 01:28:15.396
Jim Reed: You can’t stop Ruben, right?

01:28:15.396 –> 01:28:22.336
Jim Reed: So you kind of have to, me and Alex tend to play, and he’ll just kind of do whatever.

01:28:22.336 –> 01:28:25.696
Jim Reed: And it’s usually, I mean, pretty much always fantastic.

01:28:25.696 –> 01:28:28.636
Jim Reed: And he’s a showman as well.

01:28:28.636 –> 01:28:33.416
Jim Reed: So he will just start touching the piano in ways you didn’t know.

01:28:33.416 –> 01:28:34.236
Alex James O’Connor: Piano could be touched.

01:28:34.236 –> 01:28:35.796
Jim Reed: Piano could be touched.

01:28:35.796 –> 01:28:41.136
Jim Reed: So he starts, we start hearing the piano sound like a guitar.

01:28:41.136 –> 01:28:42.156
Alex James O’Connor: That’s true.

01:28:42.156 –> 01:28:44.616
Jim Reed: I’m like, Ruben, what are you doing?

01:28:44.616 –> 01:28:46.436
Jim Reed: And he’s just, I’m just scraping it.

01:28:46.436 –> 01:28:49.216
Jim Reed: So we were like, let’s get some of that.

01:28:49.216 –> 01:28:52.436
Jim Reed: So we, he was holding down the chord.

01:28:53.236 –> 01:28:53.976
Jim Reed: I don’t even know how he does.

01:28:53.976 –> 01:28:56.416
Jim Reed: He holds down the chord without the sustain on.

01:28:56.416 –> 01:28:57.616
Alex James O’Connor: Something to do with the sustain.

01:28:57.616 –> 01:28:58.296
Alex James O’Connor: We weren’t watching.

01:28:58.776 –> 01:28:59.996
Jim Reed: Yeah, we were just hearing it.

01:28:59.996 –> 01:29:02.216
Jim Reed: And then just scrapes the strings.

01:29:09.312 –> 01:29:10.632
Jim Reed: It’s so in the madness, it’s like.

01:29:16.339 –> 01:29:18.239
Jim Reed: I can’t really hear it, but it adds something.

01:29:18.239 –> 01:29:19.519
Jim Reed: This is so cool.

01:29:19.519 –> 01:29:25.959
Jim Reed: And then these, where again, he had his hand on the strings just to mute them, which is such a nice sound.

01:29:30.339 –> 01:29:31.919
Jim Reed: And with these two together.

01:29:35.299 –> 01:29:35.979
Jim Reed: And then a solo.

01:29:43.948 –> 01:29:46.348
Jim Reed: It’s just so much fun, honestly.

01:29:46.348 –> 01:29:47.168
Jim Reed: And then going into…

01:29:52.808 –> 01:29:54.828
Jim Reed: Into the strings.

01:30:14.373 –> 01:30:27.193
Jim Reed: So yeah, it was just, it was so much fun, and they were so good that that just felt so effortless, like going from such, from one end of a sound to another.

01:30:27.193 –> 01:30:33.953
Jim Reed: It just flowed in it, and it worked, and that was honestly thanks to Ruben and Michael being such incredible players, and it was such a fun one to listen to.

01:30:33.953 –> 01:30:37.953
Jim Reed: I think it was a really good one, to watch and listen to and create.

01:30:37.953 –> 01:30:38.853
John Kennedy: Yeah, fantastic.

01:30:38.853 –> 01:30:41.493
John Kennedy: And it sounds brilliant on the album as well.

01:30:41.493 –> 01:30:44.613
John Kennedy: We have a couple of questions that we ask everybody who comes on the podcast.

01:30:44.613 –> 01:30:50.253
John Kennedy: I’m gonna get to those in just a moment, because we’ve also got a couple of questions that have come through via Patreon.

01:30:50.253 –> 01:30:59.493
John Kennedy: And the first is from Sergio Herreroz, who says, It’s often said that a good song should still be good if stripped down and sung over an acoustic guitar or piano, even a cappella.

01:30:59.493 –> 01:31:06.593
John Kennedy: However, sometimes sound design seems to make or break a song, or at least transform it from good to exciting.

01:31:06.593 –> 01:31:07.753
John Kennedy: What is your take on this?

01:31:08.273 –> 01:31:11.333
John Kennedy: Do you normally start songs with a certain sound in mind?

01:31:11.333 –> 01:31:17.893
John Kennedy: And it is a really great question because it kind of covers or links in to what we’ve been discussing.

01:31:17.893 –> 01:31:19.273
Alex James O’Connor: That’s a really great question.

01:31:19.273 –> 01:31:25.733
Alex James O’Connor: And I would say for me, I think they live their two different things in my mind.

01:31:25.733 –> 01:31:33.633
Alex James O’Connor: I believe there’s like a song that’s an undeniable song and then there’s things that rely more so on production and the track almost.

01:31:34.213 –> 01:31:38.833
Alex James O’Connor: Like the production and the product itself, regardless of what’s going on melodically.

01:31:38.833 –> 01:31:39.953
Alex James O’Connor: There’s some of my favorite songs in the world.

01:31:39.953 –> 01:31:41.053
Alex James O’Connor: I don’t care what they’re talking about.

01:31:41.053 –> 01:31:42.253
Alex James O’Connor: I don’t know what they’re talking about.

01:31:42.253 –> 01:31:43.813
Alex James O’Connor: It just feels so good.

01:31:43.813 –> 01:31:50.313
Alex James O’Connor: And it’s like, there are those songs and then there are songs that are heartbreaking and I’m just holding on to every word and I’m not bothered about the production.

01:31:50.313 –> 01:31:53.053
Alex James O’Connor: Or I’m not fussed about how the instrumentation or any of that.

01:31:53.053 –> 01:31:55.033
Alex James O’Connor: I do think there’s space for both.

01:31:55.033 –> 01:32:00.193
Alex James O’Connor: Personally, I believe, undeniable song, personally, is slightly more of a satisfying thing for me.

01:32:00.193 –> 01:32:01.773
Alex James O’Connor: But that’s coming from a songwriter’s perspective.

01:32:01.773 –> 01:32:05.973
Alex James O’Connor: I definitely have a lot of, you know, D’Angelo Voodoo is one of the greatest albums of all time.

01:32:05.973 –> 01:32:09.393
Alex James O’Connor: And I don’t know what he’s talking about at all throughout the entire album.

01:32:09.393 –> 01:32:11.953
Alex James O’Connor: And it just sounds like the greatest thing I’ve ever heard.

01:32:11.953 –> 01:32:15.573
Alex James O’Connor: So like, that’s maybe a good example, or like a Billy Joel or something.

01:32:15.573 –> 01:32:19.073
Alex James O’Connor: It’s like lyrics for me and songwriting and chords, but I’m not worried about the production.

01:32:19.073 –> 01:32:24.433
Alex James O’Connor: I don’t really care what he’s not trying to do anything wild with sound design, but it’s like 10 out of 10 songs to me.

01:32:24.433 –> 01:32:26.593
Alex James O’Connor: So I think you can look at different things.

01:32:26.633 –> 01:32:27.953
Alex James O’Connor: I don’t know how you feel about that.

01:32:28.253 –> 01:32:29.873
Jim Reed: I definitely agree.

01:32:29.873 –> 01:32:36.593
Jim Reed: I think some sound design can actually make you hear harmony differently.

01:32:36.593 –> 01:32:47.073
Jim Reed: Like you could play two notes on a certain synth that might bring out different harmonics, that are real subtle, but it just sounds incredible.

01:32:47.073 –> 01:32:53.133
Jim Reed: And then you play those exact same two notes on an acoustic guitar and it doesn’t bring you that same harmonic satisfaction.

01:32:53.873 –> 01:33:00.673
Jim Reed: So I think sometimes sound design is really important, but again, sometimes a great song is actually just a great song.

01:33:00.673 –> 01:33:01.213
John Kennedy: Well, it’s interesting.

01:33:01.213 –> 01:33:10.513
John Kennedy: I mean, it does relate to say too much, too much in that, the original song that you started writing slowed down, was quite a different kind of thing.

01:33:10.713 –> 01:33:18.653
John Kennedy: And it’s whether you should stick to that as in that’s how it is, that’s how you can perform it without any other ingredients.

01:33:19.373 –> 01:33:24.173
John Kennedy: And is that more true to creativity or is it completely irrelevant?

01:33:24.273 –> 01:33:27.313
John Kennedy: Obviously, I think we’re saying it doesn’t matter.

01:33:27.313 –> 01:33:40.973
John Kennedy: But at the same time, that idea that, oh, you can break down a song and you can really test a song about whether you can play on acoustic guitar or play on the piano and how does it sound then and how vital or crucial that is.

01:33:40.973 –> 01:33:47.493
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, I think it’s, I think there’s, it’s not, I genuinely think it depends what you’re going for as the listener or the creator.

01:33:47.613 –> 01:33:49.513
Alex James O’Connor: I think it depends what you’re interested in.

01:33:49.513 –> 01:33:58.233
Alex James O’Connor: A lot of my closest friends, I could put them all in a room and play one song and some was listening to the lyrics, some was listening to the drums, some was listening to the, like how loud it is.

01:33:58.233 –> 01:34:07.033
Alex James O’Connor: And like everyone’s got a different gauge and even just generally like yourself, like we were talking about like hearing lyrics first or hearing chords first or hearing production first.

01:34:07.033 –> 01:34:16.573
Alex James O’Connor: I just think it depends what your, where you’re at in your life and what your disposition is with your, what your priority is for just like hearing, hearing something first, I would say.

01:34:16.573 –> 01:34:17.293
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:34:17.293 –> 01:34:20.093
John Kennedy: Another question from Patreon, Zachary Madonna.

01:34:20.093 –> 01:34:21.913
John Kennedy: I love the listener’s names.

01:34:22.093 –> 01:34:22.913
John Kennedy: Zachary’s.

01:34:22.913 –> 01:34:25.453
John Kennedy: What is your process when collaborating with artists?

01:34:25.453 –> 01:34:29.993
John Kennedy: I’m really interested in hearing how you worked with Tyler, the creator in particular.

01:34:30.213 –> 01:34:31.993
John Kennedy: And that is an interesting thing.

01:34:31.993 –> 01:34:35.193
John Kennedy: He got in touch with you out of the blue and liked your stuff.

01:34:35.193 –> 01:34:36.733
John Kennedy: And then suddenly you end up working with him.

01:34:36.733 –> 01:34:38.773
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, that was that, I suppose.

01:34:38.773 –> 01:34:44.773
Alex James O’Connor: And then as far as being in the room together, I think it’s with him with those one song that he had a real vision for.

01:34:44.833 –> 01:34:46.453
Alex James O’Connor: And he was like, I want you to sing this exactly.

01:34:46.453 –> 01:34:47.133
Alex James O’Connor: And I did that.

01:34:47.133 –> 01:34:49.273
Alex James O’Connor: And he was like, that was it, cool.

01:34:49.273 –> 01:34:54.753
Alex James O’Connor: And then there was another one a couple days later where he was like, I don’t know exactly what I want here, but I want you to try some things.

01:34:54.753 –> 01:34:57.393
Alex James O’Connor: And I did, and I kind of felt the opportunity in that moment.

01:34:57.393 –> 01:34:59.493
Alex James O’Connor: I’m a huge fan and was already there.

01:34:59.493 –> 01:35:09.053
Alex James O’Connor: I’d already figured out this one song that we had in mind, but then it was the second one that was, had to pull on my sort of writing strings, which was weird in the moment to have to write in the room, which I don’t normally do.

01:35:09.053 –> 01:35:14.773
Alex James O’Connor: But I kind of felt like it was like no time, like the present, like this is all, I’ve just got today with him, so we’re going to do that.

01:35:14.773 –> 01:35:18.693
Alex James O’Connor: That’s as literal as I can get, as far as collaborating, it’s a funny balance.

01:35:18.693 –> 01:35:25.973
Alex James O’Connor: You got to really leave your ego at the door and don’t walk into it thinking like, I’m going to get this person on this song, because they’re not going to get on that song.

01:35:25.973 –> 01:35:29.753
Alex James O’Connor: Almost definitely the thing that you think is going to be, it might not end up being that.

01:35:29.753 –> 01:35:33.453
Alex James O’Connor: It might be, hopefully, but yeah, you generally can get your hopes up a bit.

01:35:33.453 –> 01:35:34.533
Alex James O’Connor: I think it’s just you can really relate.

01:35:34.533 –> 01:35:39.353
Alex James O’Connor: It’s better to just have these conversations with other artists because you can really relate on a lot of stuff.

01:35:39.633 –> 01:35:45.553
Alex James O’Connor: Everyone in the world doesn’t know how it feels to be in that position and it’s such a blessing and such a strange thing at the same time.

01:35:45.553 –> 01:35:48.233
Alex James O’Connor: I don’t collaborate loads, but yeah, Tyler is a really good example one.

01:35:48.253 –> 01:35:55.133
Alex James O’Connor: Some of you can work with a lot of people, but I kind of, my strong suit is like, producers and players, like musicians.

01:35:55.133 –> 01:36:02.433
Alex James O’Connor: I think I really enjoy collaborating with, but yeah, I’d like certainly wanting to collaborate with as many artists that are willing to do so.

01:36:02.433 –> 01:36:03.093
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

01:36:03.093 –> 01:36:03.673
John Kennedy: And it’s interesting.

01:36:03.673 –> 01:36:13.213
John Kennedy: I mean, from what you were saying right at the beginning of our conversation, you all knew each other for a while and you’re able to collaborate because there’s this friendship and chemistry going on.

01:36:13.213 –> 01:36:16.753
John Kennedy: And that’s something to build on and react to and it’s very relaxing, isn’t it?

01:36:16.753 –> 01:36:18.313
John Kennedy: As well, it makes it easy.

01:36:18.433 –> 01:36:20.993
Alex James O’Connor: Oh, actually James Blake, I can’t forget about James Blake.

01:36:20.993 –> 01:36:21.573
Alex James O’Connor: He’s on the album.

01:36:21.573 –> 01:36:22.713
John Kennedy: Yeah, talking about club this year.

01:36:22.713 –> 01:36:26.973
John Kennedy: I thought we could maybe use the James song as the outro, so we could hear about that in just a moment.

01:36:26.973 –> 01:36:27.873
Alex James O’Connor: Definitely.

01:36:27.873 –> 01:36:35.453
John Kennedy: But we ask people about their favorite piece of equipment or favorite tech that they can’t do without when they’re creating and recording.

01:36:35.453 –> 01:36:38.353
John Kennedy: I mean, you’ve mentioned a lot of plugins and a lot of different things.

01:36:39.073 –> 01:36:40.653
John Kennedy: What would you say?

01:36:40.653 –> 01:36:59.253
Alex James O’Connor: For me, it’s probably a C800, the microphone, because I just used it on every song for vocals, and I found it in like, before we even worked on this, I kind of started that Pony time, I found the C800 and I just like, yeah, I’ve been in love, I’ve been lucky enough to have one, and it just is in the crib and that’s the one mic that I feel the most comfortable on somehow.

01:36:59.253 –> 01:37:02.953
Alex James O’Connor: I’m sure there’s others out there I haven’t tried, but yeah, that one I would love personally.

01:37:02.953 –> 01:37:07.933
Alex James O’Connor: I’m not on the buttons as much these days, so I’ll let you go with the hardware thing.

01:37:08.073 –> 01:37:09.413
Alex James O’Connor: Hardware or software?

01:37:09.413 –> 01:37:11.653
John Kennedy: Either, whatever you prefer, really.

01:37:11.653 –> 01:37:14.053
John Kennedy: Whatever’s more crucial.

01:37:14.053 –> 01:37:28.853
Jim Reed: For me, I think one thing I’ve always, always come back to, or just like, I always love using and slapping on something and seeing what I can do with it is the Goodhertz Wolf Compressor.

01:37:28.853 –> 01:37:40.053
Jim Reed: It’s pretty popular, you know, it’s not a hidden sort of like underground plugin, but I think coming from a place where I, I never studied production or anything.

01:37:40.053 –> 01:37:42.633
Jim Reed: I don’t know kind of like the proper rules.

01:37:42.633 –> 01:37:51.513
Jim Reed: I mean, you know, there aren’t proper rules, but I always used it as more of like a, an effect more than like a compressor.

01:37:51.513 –> 01:38:15.813
Jim Reed: It was always just like, what happens if I just slam the compressor on this or like put the wow thing up and or like out phase or whatever, you know, and it always brings me fun results, whether I put it on an audio file or like drums or a synth, or yeah, it always brings out the strangest artifacts for me when used to quite an extreme place, I guess.

01:38:15.813 –> 01:38:16.033
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:38:16.033 –> 01:38:16.313
Jim Reed: Yeah.

01:38:16.313 –> 01:38:17.633
Jim Reed: I find it really fun.

01:38:17.633 –> 01:38:31.153
John Kennedy: The other question we ask everybody is about advice, whether you’ve learned something along the journey so far, or whether you’ve been given some advice by somebody else that you would pass on and share with other people.

01:38:31.153 –> 01:38:36.393
Alex James O’Connor: I’ve definitely been given a lot of good advice over the years, for sure.

01:38:36.393 –> 01:38:43.593
Alex James O’Connor: But I would say probably at the moment, even more so in my head, I think it’s always important to try not to compare yourself to other people.

01:38:43.593 –> 01:38:54.533
Alex James O’Connor: And it comes in super naturally for a lot of people, even just day to day as humans, we kind of like you’re judging the way you see the world and how you feel about everything is kind of like you’re balancing.

01:38:54.533 –> 01:38:57.613
Alex James O’Connor: Like, I don’t think that’s good and I do think that’s good and it’s judgment.

01:38:57.613 –> 01:39:00.113
Alex James O’Connor: And I would never want to be like that and I would want to be like that.

01:39:00.113 –> 01:39:02.073
Alex James O’Connor: But at the end of the day, you can’t.

01:39:02.073 –> 01:39:05.533
Alex James O’Connor: I really have found that you can let yourself down by setting up pressures.

01:39:05.533 –> 01:39:13.453
Alex James O’Connor: I believe in, I would honestly say, trust yourself, believe in yourself, believe in your friend, like, you know, believe in the people around you.

01:39:13.453 –> 01:39:16.013
Alex James O’Connor: But you can only be as good as you can be.

01:39:16.013 –> 01:39:18.993
Alex James O’Connor: You will never be as good as someone else because you will never be them.

01:39:18.993 –> 01:39:23.333
Alex James O’Connor: I remember someone telling me about how an artist was like, I’m gonna be better than this artist one day.

01:39:23.333 –> 01:39:25.993
Alex James O’Connor: And it’s like, you can’t, you won’t, like, good luck.

01:39:25.993 –> 01:39:27.173
Alex James O’Connor: You are you, you’re in your body.

01:39:27.173 –> 01:39:28.573
Alex James O’Connor: I’m gonna be as good as I can be.

01:39:28.573 –> 01:39:30.413
Alex James O’Connor: I’ll be as big as I can be, I’ll be as small as I can be.

01:39:30.413 –> 01:39:31.913
Alex James O’Connor: I’ll be just me.

01:39:31.913 –> 01:39:34.753
Alex James O’Connor: I can’t be anything else as much as I would like to be.

01:39:34.913 –> 01:39:38.493
Alex James O’Connor: And I would honestly say that to anyone, please just try and just enjoy it.

01:39:38.493 –> 01:39:41.413
Alex James O’Connor: Accept yourself the way you are because it’s brilliant how it is.

01:39:41.413 –> 01:39:42.853
Alex James O’Connor: And don’t wish it away.

01:39:42.853 –> 01:39:43.753
Alex James O’Connor: Don’t wish it with someone else.

01:39:43.753 –> 01:39:49.093
Alex James O’Connor: That you’ve got everything you could ever need within you, I believe, and yeah, that would be mine.

01:39:50.033 –> 01:39:51.293
John Kennedy: What about you, Jim?

01:39:51.293 –> 01:39:52.633
Jim Reed: I mean, I agree with that.

01:39:52.633 –> 01:40:22.053
Jim Reed: But I think one thing that I’ve really benefited off like practicing is not rushing when making, you know, a beat or if I’m in a session with someone, not feeling that pressure, that time pressure, like knowing that they, most likely if you have a good connection with them or you’re on the same page, knowing that they are gonna allow you to create something.

01:40:22.053 –> 01:40:26.133
Jim Reed: And I think if you actually take your time, they’re gonna get something better out of it.

01:40:26.133 –> 01:40:27.393
Jim Reed: You’re gonna get something better out of it.

01:40:27.393 –> 01:40:34.913
Jim Reed: I think wanting to make something good is useful, but rushing is not gonna get you to a better place.

01:40:34.913 –> 01:40:44.333
Jim Reed: And I don’t think for their benefit, doing something quicker is gonna be more beneficial than taking longer and getting a better result out of it.

01:40:44.333 –> 01:40:45.273
Jim Reed: You know, it’s not that.

01:40:45.633 –> 01:40:47.453
Jim Reed: And also, one other thing.

01:40:47.453 –> 01:40:53.313
Jim Reed: I think if you’re in a session, and you’re making something with someone, don’t say it sounds like another song.

01:40:53.313 –> 01:40:57.933
Jim Reed: I see that, and if I’m in a session and someone does that, it’s just, I automatically shut down.

01:40:57.933 –> 01:41:02.293
Jim Reed: I usually see the singer or artist automatically shut down.

01:41:02.293 –> 01:41:08.173
Jim Reed: Just make the song, even if it sounds like it, just make the song, and then just let the artist decide.

01:41:08.633 –> 01:41:10.113
Jim Reed: Just let them make the song, you know?

01:41:10.113 –> 01:41:10.753
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:41:11.493 –> 01:41:12.213
Jim Reed: That frustrates me.

01:41:12.213 –> 01:41:12.853
John Kennedy: That’s a good one.

01:41:12.853 –> 01:41:13.553
John Kennedy: I can see that.

01:41:14.373 –> 01:41:15.713
John Kennedy: Thank you so much for your time.

01:41:15.713 –> 01:41:16.273
Alex James O’Connor: Thank you.

01:41:16.273 –> 01:41:22.873
John Kennedy: And for doing the homework and digging in deep, and we’ve lost Teo, but pass on our gratitude to Teo.

01:41:22.873 –> 01:41:24.133
Alex James O’Connor: We absolutely will.

01:41:24.133 –> 01:41:28.513
John Kennedy: And we will play one more song, another selection from The Alexander Technique.

01:41:28.513 –> 01:41:33.993
John Kennedy: And I did think that maybe our outro song should be, Look Me in the Eyes, which features James Blake.

01:41:33.993 –> 01:41:35.873
John Kennedy: You referred to it, Alex.

01:41:35.873 –> 01:41:38.153
John Kennedy: Just tell us a tiny bit about this before we hear it.

01:41:38.173 –> 01:41:38.693
Alex James O’Connor: I will.

01:41:38.693 –> 01:41:40.513
Alex James O’Connor: This song is entirely written by James.

01:41:40.613 –> 01:41:47.453
Alex James O’Connor: It’s his lyrics, it’s his melody, structure, everything about it, piano playing, it’s him.

01:41:47.453 –> 01:41:49.353
Alex James O’Connor: And we had a long conversation in the studio.

01:41:49.353 –> 01:41:51.273
Alex James O’Connor: It was like three hours long about the state of the world.

01:41:51.273 –> 01:41:51.973
Alex James O’Connor: And he was about to leave.

01:41:51.973 –> 01:41:52.773
Alex James O’Connor: He’s like, okay, I’m out here.

01:41:52.773 –> 01:41:56.513
Alex James O’Connor: I was like, no, hold on just before you leave, please go in there and play the piano for a little bit.

01:41:56.513 –> 01:41:59.173
Alex James O’Connor: This is at Comway Studio C in LA.

01:41:59.173 –> 01:42:01.893
Alex James O’Connor: And he goes in, he plays for 18 minutes.

01:42:01.893 –> 01:42:03.953
Alex James O’Connor: He did three different jams, freestyles.

01:42:03.953 –> 01:42:07.553
Alex James O’Connor: The last one was three and a half minutes and it was exactly what you hear.

01:42:07.553 –> 01:42:09.373
Alex James O’Connor: And it was just without my vocal.

01:42:09.493 –> 01:42:11.153
Alex James O’Connor: And so he just did it just plain and simple.

01:42:11.153 –> 01:42:12.993
Alex James O’Connor: It came out of him, arrived.

01:42:12.993 –> 01:42:15.693
Alex James O’Connor: And I swear on my life, I swear on everything he wrote.

01:42:15.973 –> 01:42:17.653
Alex James O’Connor: That came to him, he did not pre-write that.

01:42:17.653 –> 01:42:19.513
Alex James O’Connor: That was not, it was genuinely off the dump.

01:42:19.513 –> 01:42:23.973
Alex James O’Connor: You could tell from, if you hear that 18 minutes, you know the first two, he’s just like trying things.

01:42:23.973 –> 01:42:26.333
Alex James O’Connor: He lands on, looked me in the eyes at the end.

01:42:26.333 –> 01:42:28.293
Alex James O’Connor: He leaves, he spends three and a half minutes on it.

01:42:28.293 –> 01:42:29.413
Alex James O’Connor: And he’s like, huh, yeah, pretty good.

01:42:29.413 –> 01:42:33.573
Alex James O’Connor: And he leaves and then I sing on it for like seven hours for the night, overnight.

01:42:33.573 –> 01:42:34.753
Alex James O’Connor: It gets to like eight in the morning.

01:42:34.753 –> 01:42:36.213
Alex James O’Connor: I’m like, okay, I think I’m done.

01:42:36.213 –> 01:42:37.513
Alex James O’Connor: Teo’s asleep on the sofa.

01:42:37.613 –> 01:42:41.513
Alex James O’Connor: Yeah, and Dylan, who was helping engineer at the time, got me through that.

01:42:41.513 –> 01:42:42.913
Alex James O’Connor: And I was like, I gotta get this right.

01:42:42.913 –> 01:42:44.433
Alex James O’Connor: I gotta get the exact right notes.

01:42:44.433 –> 01:42:49.713
Alex James O’Connor: And I sent it to him that morning, eight in the morning, went to sleep, woke up and he texted me like, great, sounds good.

01:42:49.713 –> 01:42:51.413
Alex James O’Connor: And he’s like, didn’t really want to change anything.

01:42:51.413 –> 01:42:55.473
Alex James O’Connor: So it’s like very special story, but that was really a gift from him.

01:42:55.473 –> 01:42:56.593
Alex James O’Connor: I’m fortunate enough to have.

01:42:56.593 –> 01:43:01.593
Alex James O’Connor: And it’s yeah, of course, you know, my part is in there too, but yeah, I credit James in a big way for that.

01:43:01.593 –> 01:43:02.593
Alex James O’Connor: So shout to him.

01:43:02.593 –> 01:43:04.113
John Kennedy: Amazing, fantastic.

01:43:04.113 –> 01:43:04.973
John Kennedy: Thank you again.

01:43:04.973 –> 01:43:05.473
Alex James O’Connor: Thank you so much.

01:43:05.513 –> 01:43:07.293
John Kennedy: We’re out of time and we’re going to listen to that now.

01:43:07.293 –> 01:43:11.273
John Kennedy: This is Look Me in the Eyes, James Blake and Rex Orange County.

01:43:59.131 –> 01:44:04.471
John Kennedy: Thank you for listening, and in particular, thanks to all of you who’ve signed up to support us on Patreon.

01:44:04.471 –> 01:44:08.971
John Kennedy: I’m just one part of the team that brings you Tape Notes, and it relies on your support.

01:44:08.971 –> 01:44:16.951
John Kennedy: Access to Patreon includes the full length videos of new episodes where possible, ad free episodes, and detailed gear lists among many other things.

01:44:16.951 –> 01:44:20.771
John Kennedy: If you’d like to join, head to the link on our socials or website.

01:44:20.771 –> 01:44:25.911
John Kennedy: For pictures, highlight clips, and behind the scenes content, head to our Instagram or YouTube channel.

01:44:25.911 –> 01:44:29.431
John Kennedy: And on Discord, you can join the growing Tape Notes community.

01:44:29.451 –> 01:44:30.991
John Kennedy: Once again, thank you for listening.

01:44:30.991 –> 01:44:33.491
John Kennedy: Until next time, goodbye.