Full Transcript:

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy.

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John Kennedy: Thanks for choosing Tape notes.

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John Kennedy: I just wanted to give you a quick heads up that we’ve got a new episode this week, and it’s with Clean Bandit.

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John Kennedy: I’m very excited about this because I’ve been following them and almost kind of involved with them since the very beginning, having played them on the radio very early on.

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John Kennedy: And it was such an epic conversation that we’ve had to divide it into two parts.

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John Kennedy: So the first half, we looked at some of their biggest songs, and then in the second part, we’re looking at some of the stuff that is still to come out.

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John Kennedy: So we’re holding on to that until those tracks are released and out there.

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John Kennedy: So the new episode this week is part one of our two-part conversation with Clean Bandit.

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John Kennedy: It really was absolutely fascinating to see how they weave their sounds together and create what they do.

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John Kennedy: That’s the new episode.

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John Kennedy: Thanks again for choosing Tape notes.

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John Kennedy: Without further ado, let’s get started.

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John Kennedy: Hello and welcome to Tape notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

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John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

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John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tape notes are Clean Bandit, to talk about how they wrote, recorded, and produced some of their biggest songs.

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John Kennedy: Clean Bandit are an English electronic group comprised of Grace Chatto and brothers Luke and Jack Patterson.

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John Kennedy: Forming in 2008 while studying at the University of Cambridge, along with other members, Neil Iman Smith and Love Sager, the idea for the band came when the group began weaving Grace and Neil’s string quartet music with dance and house.

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John Kennedy: With Love Sager taking on vocal responsibilities, in 2011 the band released their genre-mashing debut Telephone Banking.

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John Kennedy: Several singles and an EP followed, with the tracks Dust Clears and Mozart’s House sampling Mozart’s string quartet No.

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John Kennedy: 21, seeing early chart success.

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John Kennedy: But it was their 2014 track, Rather Be featuring jess Glynne, that catapulted them onto the global stage.

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John Kennedy: The four single from their debut album New eyes, the multi-platinum song, saw the band pick up a Grammy for best dance recording and become one of the most played tracks of the decade.

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John Kennedy: Becoming a mainstay in the pop landscape, the band have continued to release chart-topping collaborations, including Rockabye with Sean Paul and Anne-Marie, Symphony with Zara Larsson, and Solo with Demi Lovato among many others.

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John Kennedy: Now with two studio albums to their name and new music on the horizon, the band’s most recent track Cry Baby sees them team up with David Guetta and Anne-Marie, continuing to develop their fusion of classical and electronic music that has powered them to worldwide success.

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John Kennedy: Today I’m at Strong Room Studios in Shoreditch, and I’m joined by Jack and Grace from the band.

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John Kennedy: And in this part one of our conversation, we’ll be looking at two of their most successful tracks.

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John Kennedy: Part two of our conversation will be coming soon, where they’ll bring us up to date, digging into their latest work.

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John Kennedy: But what better way to start our conversation than by hearing one of their early singles.

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John Kennedy: This is Mozart’s House.

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John Kennedy: It is Clean Bandit with Mozart’s House, a blast from the past, and I’m very pleased to say that I am joined by Grace and Jack from Clean Bandit.

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John Kennedy: Hello, how are you?

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Grace Chatto: Hello.

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John Kennedy: I thought it would be nice to play that because it brings me back to the time, back in March 2012, that Clean Bandit were in session on the radio show I was doing then, and still do, Exposure, which was then on XFM, it’s now on Radio X.

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John Kennedy: And yeah, that night, well, some of you came in and had a chat live to air, they’d already recorded these session tracks, and Mozart’s House was very much part of the key, Clean Bandit sound at the time.

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John Kennedy: And in a way, it’s where it all began, is it?

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Grace Chatto: Yeah.

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Grace Chatto: It was the first house song that we made.

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

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Grace Chatto: Because before that, we were kind of making like reggae and dubstep, but it was just a live band, we never recorded anything.

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Grace Chatto: Mozart’s House was probably the first proper recording that we made.

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

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John Kennedy: That’s really interesting, because to me, it seems like a potential blueprint of what this could be.

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John Kennedy: Because you’ve got the house beat, there’s like a discussion about liking electro or not.

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John Kennedy: There’s a rapper, which is one particular or potential vocal style, but then there’s some other backing vocals as well.

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John Kennedy: There are the classical elements too.

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John Kennedy: So it brings together so many different ingredients.

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John Kennedy: And it was as if to me that you’re exploring different possibilities, because around the same time you had a track with Eliza Shadad, UK Shanty, which was employing more folk themes.

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John Kennedy: And there was A&E, which maybe was a bit after that, but it was a bit more housey.

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John Kennedy: And so there were all these different things going on.

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John Kennedy: But I think you were saying just before we started recording that it began as a collective, so there were a lot of different people involved.

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Grace Chatto: There were, yeah.

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John Kennedy: So Love Sager, that was the vocalist there, or the rapper.

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Grace Chatto: Yeah, Love Sager.

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Grace Chatto: We were studying at university together, and he was, yeah, there was a Facebook group about how everyone wanted him to sing at their wedding.

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

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Jack Patterson: >I think that’s how we got to know of him.

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Grace Chatto: From the Facebook group, yeah.

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Grace Chatto: And then we started making music together.

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Grace Chatto: It was actually a string quartet first that we had, and we were playing a lot of Mozart and Bojack, Shostakovich, and Jack started sampling the string quartet music.

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Grace Chatto: And it was kind of like the dubstep era.

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Grace Chatto: And we were doing like dubstep songs with Shostakovich quartets at the core.

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Grace Chatto: And Jack and Lovezegger were really good friends, and Jack played all the beats to him, and he just kind of wrote these raps that we decided to put on a club night then.

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Grace Chatto: And he just came out and did like 10 songs.

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Grace Chatto: It was amazing.

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John Kennedy: Wow, that sounds incredible.

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John Kennedy: And this was in Cambridge, is that right?

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah, it was at the Can Bar, which is now closed.

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John Kennedy: Right.

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

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John Kennedy: And at the same time, you were all still at uni then, studying music or studying other subjects?

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Jack Patterson: >Other subjects.

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Jack Patterson: >So I was doing architecture and Grace was doing languages.

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John Kennedy: Right.

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Grace Chatto: And Seg, he was doing chemical engineering, wasn’t he?

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Grace Chatto: And then Luke was still at school.

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Grace Chatto: He was like 14 at the time.

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John Kennedy: Right.

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John Kennedy: So Luke is the other member of Clean Bandit, your brother Jack.

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

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John Kennedy: So he was still at school and then you wrote him in on drums or something?

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

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Jack Patterson: >So he got an electric drum kit for Christmas.

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Jack Patterson: >And then that was his instant ticket down to Cambridge to join the band.

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John Kennedy: This sounds so great though.

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John Kennedy: And it’s interesting because that was around 2008 then.

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John Kennedy: And so by the time 2012 came around and you released Mozart’s House, there had been quite a lot of evolution.

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John Kennedy: But then, it was only a couple of years later that you released Rather Be, which has obviously gone on to be an international anthem, is what I could describe it as, with a billion and a quarter of a million plays on just one streaming service alone.

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John Kennedy: But that was only two years after you put out Mozart’s House and those first couple of tracks.

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John Kennedy: But obviously, a world away from these beginnings that you’ve been outlining.

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John Kennedy: Should we start playing Rather Be to give people a context?

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John Kennedy: Or do you want to explain more first?

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah, I can play a little snippet.

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John Kennedy: So this is Rather Be.

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John Kennedy: So, just a little taste of Rather Be featuring jess Glynne, of course.

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John Kennedy: And we’re trying to work out where this all came together, this Clean Bandit evolution.

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John Kennedy: So, the collective doing dubstep string arrangements with improvised rapping on top.

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John Kennedy: When did it get serious?

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John Kennedy: Because it seems to me that maybe there was a point where it suddenly, oh, we really like this.

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John Kennedy: This is kind of going somewhere.

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John Kennedy: We should concentrate and focus.

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Jack Patterson: >I don’t know if it ever got serious.

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Jack Patterson: >I remember I was talking to Olly Alexander from years and years.

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Jack Patterson: >And I remember him describing Rather Be as this like weird bloggy house tune that just seemed to just go everywhere.

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Jack Patterson: >And I think there wasn’t ever like an intent to go serious.

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Jack Patterson: >Although maybe actually there was a bit of a kind of, when Seg departed, I think we panicked quite a lot and kind of started thinking, shit, we need to, what are we going to do here?

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Jack Patterson: >We’re going to need to make some bangers.

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Grace Chatto: I was going to say it’s always been serious.

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Grace Chatto: Since the first thing I heard that you wrote, it’s been serious for me since that, the Vorejak reggae beat.

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John Kennedy: Maybe Jack didn’t realize.

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John Kennedy: Maybe you could see the vision, Grace.

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Grace Chatto: Well, I always from that moment knew that there was something so special in the mix of unexpected sound worlds.

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Grace Chatto: As well, the samples that Jack was choosing from the quartet music that we were playing, was so unexpected, such random moments, that really worked with the beats.

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Grace Chatto: But I just remembered about Rather Be, that I would say it was inspired by Disclosure, in a way, because we supported Disclosure on tour, and we were obsessed with their music, and we wrote it around that time, just after that, I think.

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Grace Chatto: And even though it doesn’t sound like Disclosure, so that might be a surprise to hear.

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Grace Chatto: But, yeah, and it kind of came together, like the instrumental track we worked on for a long time before we thought about the top line.

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Grace Chatto: Jack wrote that of the riff when we were on the tube, just on his laptop.

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah, so it had the kind of instrumental, which is, I’ve got bits of it here.

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Jack Patterson: >This laptop is doing its best.

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John Kennedy: So this is incredible, because you showed us a photograph of a line of equipment, a line of laptops in effect, going back, I guess, over the last decade or more.

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John Kennedy: And you had to get all of this out to see what you could access, because we’re talking about a song that is now 10 years old, and its genesis is probably much older than that.

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John Kennedy: But you have rescued some of this.

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Jack Patterson: >I’ve got some bits and pieces.

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Jack Patterson: >One thing I think we did figure out from disclosure was their use of swing, like swinging quantized MIDI.

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Jack Patterson: >That was something that I don’t think we’ve done much before.

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Jack Patterson: >And I hadn’t really noticed how swung the synth part actually is on its own, but it is quite…

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John Kennedy: So you’re saying, Grace, that he wrote that on the tube?

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Grace Chatto: Yeah, and he just had his laptop out like that.

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Grace Chatto: I thought he was writing an email or something, and he just said, oh, listen to this.

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Grace Chatto: He gave me the headphones.

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Grace Chatto: And I was like, that is cool.

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Grace Chatto: That is very cool.

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Grace Chatto: And then that became the violin riff.

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Grace Chatto: That was a new thing for us, because before that, everything that we played on the violin and cello was already written hundreds of years ago.

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Grace Chatto: This was the first kind of original string part that Jack wrote for us.

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John Kennedy: So this is an important song in the evolution of Clean Bandit, isn’t it?

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John Kennedy: It’s not just important because it went on to be so successful, but because it’s a turning point in how you approach things.

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah, I think it was.

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Jack Patterson: >Did dust clears have a string sample?

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Grace Chatto: Oh, yeah.

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Grace Chatto: Okay, so it wasn’t the first, it was the second.

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Grace Chatto: And the first then was Dust Clears, which is a song also written with Jimmy napes, who wrote the words for Rather Be.

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John Kennedy: Right.

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Grace Chatto: And you’d recently done that Dust Clears.

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Grace Chatto: So once we kind of had made the instrumental and some of the vocal melodies, we were kind of thinking about the lyrics and what to do and called up Jimmy napes.

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John Kennedy: Right.

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Grace Chatto: And met and went from there.

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John Kennedy: And who is Jimmy and how did you know Jimmy?

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Jack Patterson: >He’s a very, very successful songwriter now.

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Jack Patterson: >He’s Sam Smith’s kind of right hand man.

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Jack Patterson: >And he’s, I think he’s written most of Sam’s big songs.

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Jack Patterson: >And a lot of Disclosure as well.

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John Kennedy: Right.

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Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

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Grace Chatto: Yeah.

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Grace Chatto: So we kind of met him kind of via Disclosure, I think originally and wrote this song, Dust Clears and another song called Extraordinary.

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Grace Chatto: So yeah, when we, when we had this father be instrumental, we kind of knew we had to get Jimmy in to work on the top line.

00:14:53.056 –> 00:14:53.216
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:14:53.216 –> 00:14:54.296
Jack Patterson: >You can hear Jimmy singing.

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Jack Patterson: >Oh yeah, it’s a lyric change.

00:15:31.056 –> 00:15:38.096
Jack Patterson: >We changed the lyric from Bermondsey to Kyoto because we thought that would be more fun for the music video.

00:15:38.096 –> 00:15:38.736
John Kennedy: Right.

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Jack Patterson: >And then we went and filmed it in Japan.

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Grace Chatto: Yeah, we said to the record label, we have to go to Japan because it’s about Kyoto.

00:15:46.736 –> 00:15:47.376
John Kennedy: Right.

00:15:47.376 –> 00:15:49.036
John Kennedy: It could have been in Bermondsey.

00:15:49.036 –> 00:15:49.436
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:15:49.436 –> 00:15:49.816
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:15:49.816 –> 00:15:52.096
Jack Patterson: >But it was also a weird pronunciation of Bermondsey.

00:15:52.876 –> 00:15:54.216
Jack Patterson: >He was like, Bermondsey.

00:15:54.216 –> 00:15:55.676
Grace Chatto: Bermondsey to the Bay.

00:15:55.676 –> 00:15:56.836
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

00:15:56.836 –> 00:15:59.816
Jack Patterson: >It got us a lot of work in Japan.

00:15:59.816 –> 00:16:00.416
John Kennedy: Right.

00:16:02.896 –> 00:16:06.876
John Kennedy: That was just a bit of kind of entertaining yourselves in a way.

00:16:07.736 –> 00:16:07.976
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:16:07.976 –> 00:16:13.136
Jack Patterson: >Well, no, it was a bit more kind of romantic, I think, in Kyoto.

00:16:13.356 –> 00:16:21.016
John Kennedy: So at what point, you’re writing this song, you’ve got Jimmy in now, he’s kind of helping you, he’s come up with some words as well.

00:16:22.636 –> 00:16:24.416
John Kennedy: What happens next?

00:16:24.416 –> 00:16:30.376
Jack Patterson: >The next stage, we had this demo that sounded quite robotic.

00:16:30.376 –> 00:16:32.116
Jack Patterson: >As you can hear.

00:16:32.116 –> 00:16:38.396
Jack Patterson: >And we were touring with these singers, Nicky Sisslin and Makeda Moore.

00:16:38.396 –> 00:16:46.556
Jack Patterson: >And so we got asked those guys to come in and do the demo, so we could get like a kind of more alive version of the song.

00:16:49.236 –> 00:16:52.876
Jack Patterson: >And at that time the post-chorus was just instrumental.

00:16:52.876 –> 00:16:59.016
Jack Patterson: >It just was this like Fender rhodes thing going, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, like kind of echoing.

00:16:59.016 –> 00:17:04.736
Jack Patterson: >And then Nicky started ad libbing while she was recording.

00:17:04.736 –> 00:17:08.736
Jack Patterson: >And she started doing the, no, no, no, no, section.

00:17:09.456 –> 00:17:12.576
Jack Patterson: >And I dug out her like vamping.

00:17:12.576 –> 00:17:18.276
Jack Patterson: >And you can just hear the kind of, the genesis of the idea in the takes.

00:17:18.276 –> 00:17:22.736
Grace Chatto: But we met Nicky Sislin and Makeda Moore when we were working.

00:17:22.736 –> 00:17:34.396
Grace Chatto: We had this studio space in South Kilburn that was like a council run project where they had turned these Porta cabins into little studios.

00:17:34.396 –> 00:17:36.696
Grace Chatto: The different businesses were in there.

00:17:36.896 –> 00:17:39.416
Grace Chatto: It was like a hat maker and an architect.

00:17:40.296 –> 00:17:48.376
Grace Chatto: And we had one room in there that we soundproofed, like built a wooden shell inside and made everything in there.

00:17:48.376 –> 00:17:54.956
Grace Chatto: But the project was that you got the space for free if you took on a trainee in the local area.

00:17:54.956 –> 00:18:00.256
Grace Chatto: And so we took on Nicky Sislin in music production.

00:18:00.256 –> 00:18:05.516
Grace Chatto: But we met her and Makeda in the church that was next door because they were singing there.

00:18:05.696 –> 00:18:08.376
Grace Chatto: They were both incredible singers.

00:18:08.376 –> 00:18:15.156
Grace Chatto: So when we started performing live, they came and were singing with us on stage.

00:18:15.156 –> 00:18:18.616
John Kennedy: There’s a lot of happen chants involved in this.

00:20:16.675 –> 00:20:19.835
Jack Patterson: >And there’s the strings in there, of course, as well.

00:20:19.835 –> 00:20:24.535
Jack Patterson: >So we must have done these strings early on.

00:20:24.535 –> 00:20:32.355
Grace Chatto: Yeah, I think we did them straight away, because we used to always do the strings early on.

00:20:32.815 –> 00:20:35.415
Grace Chatto: Now we do them at the end.

00:20:35.895 –> 00:20:37.175
John Kennedy: Right, okay.

00:20:40.515 –> 00:20:42.135
Jack Patterson: >Where did we record that?

00:20:42.135 –> 00:20:46.015
Grace Chatto: Probably in South Kilburn Studios.

00:20:46.015 –> 00:20:50.915
John Kennedy: And do you, who plays all the strings, because we associate with the cello.

00:20:50.915 –> 00:20:55.155
Grace Chatto: Yeah, so that’s Neil Armin Smith.

00:20:55.155 –> 00:20:57.655
Jack Patterson: >I think there’s cello in there as well.

00:20:57.975 –> 00:21:00.415
Grace Chatto: And me playing cello.

00:21:00.415 –> 00:21:04.115
Grace Chatto: And then on the final recording, we did it as a string quartet.

00:21:04.935 –> 00:21:17.275
Grace Chatto: Well, we layered up me and Neil a lot, especially Neil, we recorded Neil in Metropolis Studios in Chiswick, where we spent probably four days without sleeping.

00:21:17.275 –> 00:21:20.375
Grace Chatto: We just stayed there the whole time.

00:21:20.375 –> 00:21:33.155
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, we had one of these, I think it’s one of those arbitrary deadlines that we realized later were just arbitrary deadlines from the record label that’s probably just on someone’s calendar that says, check Clean Bandit demo on a wet Thursday afternoon.

00:21:33.315 –> 00:21:35.855
Jack Patterson: >We were working through them.

00:21:35.855 –> 00:21:44.195
Jack Patterson: >I think because we had quite strict university, well, I did strict, I followed quite strict university deadlines.

00:21:44.195 –> 00:21:45.875
Jack Patterson: >Grace is a bit more relaxed about it.

00:21:45.875 –> 00:21:52.855
Jack Patterson: >I did architecture, so it was always very people whipping themselves to get their models made.

00:21:53.295 –> 00:21:57.935
Jack Patterson: >We were quite good at listening to the, following the labels’ deadlines.

00:21:57.935 –> 00:22:00.355
Jack Patterson: >So we were there through the night, stacking.

00:22:00.635 –> 00:22:02.035
Jack Patterson: >I’ve got the rest of this.

00:22:02.035 –> 00:22:08.975
Jack Patterson: >these are just the kind of the stems for the demo that got kind of pitched out, which jess would have heard.

00:22:08.975 –> 00:22:13.175
Jack Patterson: >But we’ve got the kind of mixed stems as well that we could have a look at.

00:22:13.175 –> 00:22:20.755
Jack Patterson: >This feels more interesting in a way to dig deeper back into the genesis of the song for me, because we’ve heard those stems.

00:22:21.595 –> 00:22:25.115
Jack Patterson: >But this is kind of like getting into the kind of woodwork.

00:22:25.115 –> 00:22:26.315
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:22:26.315 –> 00:22:33.735
John Kennedy: It’s really interesting because it’s almost as if you can see the little steps forward with the song as you’re going along.

00:22:33.735 –> 00:22:42.495
John Kennedy: To think that just little moments can change something, like Nicky’s improvisation would change and develop a whole new section of the song.

00:22:42.995 –> 00:22:44.035
John Kennedy: Yeah, which is really interesting.

00:22:44.035 –> 00:22:49.075
Grace Chatto: Which arguably is like the main hook of the song or one of.

00:22:49.075 –> 00:22:50.395
John Kennedy: There’s a lot of hooks in that track.

00:22:51.135 –> 00:22:53.395
Grace Chatto: No, you can’t say it’s the main hook.

00:22:53.395 –> 00:23:07.615
Grace Chatto: But yeah, it was interesting as well because Nicky and Makita, they were both ad-libbing loads and when we end up using that as the post-chorus hook, I was kind of like, which person wrote this?

00:23:08.375 –> 00:23:12.975
Grace Chatto: Because we need to, this is quite a big deal.

00:23:12.975 –> 00:23:14.275
John Kennedy: How did you make that decision?

00:23:14.275 –> 00:23:16.355
Grace Chatto: Well, they remembered it.

00:23:16.355 –> 00:23:19.315
Grace Chatto: Well, and we can hear it on there.

00:23:19.315 –> 00:23:25.235
John Kennedy: So on the credits for the final version, there are a lot of names on there.

00:23:25.235 –> 00:23:26.055
Grace Chatto: On the writing?

00:23:26.055 –> 00:23:27.475
John Kennedy: Yeah, on the writing credits.

00:23:27.475 –> 00:23:29.815
Grace Chatto: No, there’s four.

00:23:29.815 –> 00:24:00.895
Grace Chatto: But on the performance, there’s quite a few people because we end up having String Quartet, one of my old friends, actually Neil and Beatrice Phillips, who I’ve known since I was tiny from Violin World, and a guy called Asher Zaccardelli on viola, and Florence Rawlings, another singer who we were touring with, she singing very prominently.

00:24:03.995 –> 00:24:05.875
Jack Patterson: >No, no, no, no.

00:24:40.035 –> 00:24:48.335
Grace Chatto: And this synth became a big part of our sound that we used in many songs.

00:24:48.335 –> 00:24:49.195
Grace Chatto: The Operator.

00:24:49.375 –> 00:24:51.935
Jack Patterson: >The Operator, it’s just an Ableton preset.

00:24:51.935 –> 00:25:03.175
Jack Patterson: >Not even a preset, if you just load an Operator in Ableton, which is like one of their default synths, and you just have to turn like two knobs, and you’ll get it to sound like that.

00:25:03.175 –> 00:25:03.415
John Kennedy: Right.

00:25:03.655 –> 00:25:04.875
Jack Patterson: >What notes?

00:25:06.235 –> 00:25:08.435
John Kennedy: But you have to play out each note.

00:25:08.435 –> 00:25:09.495
John Kennedy: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:09.495 –> 00:25:11.435
Jack Patterson: >So, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.

00:25:11.435 –> 00:25:13.975
John Kennedy: It won’t just come out with this great hook.

00:25:13.975 –> 00:25:14.935
John Kennedy: It’s like, well.

00:25:14.935 –> 00:25:21.555
Jack Patterson: >No, but that always, the reason it’s so weird, it’s not like a natural, it doesn’t fall under your fingers.

00:25:21.555 –> 00:25:29.515
Jack Patterson: >And whenever I play it live, it used to drive Neil mad because he’s got perfect pitch, and he’s a very serious musician.

00:25:29.515 –> 00:25:35.955
Jack Patterson: >And I’d play it like a kind of dumb version of it, because I’m not a very good keys player.

00:25:35.955 –> 00:25:41.195
Jack Patterson: >And he’s like, you’re missing some of the internal harmonies, you’re missing some of the crunchiness.

00:25:41.555 –> 00:25:42.755
John Kennedy: Sorry.

00:25:42.755 –> 00:25:44.935
Grace Chatto: What, in the riff?

00:25:44.935 –> 00:25:46.495
Jack Patterson: >In the riff, but not just the riff.

00:25:46.495 –> 00:26:10.755
Jack Patterson: >I just, it’s so weird when you go through it, because you can then, you can isolate the, like this chord, so you got, so you got the low note, and then the third, this chord, that chord, that’s the chord, which just sounds like you’ve put your arm down on the key, on the, that, the tension in there is, yeah.

00:26:10.755 –> 00:26:18.295
Grace Chatto: But do you think it, I always think that it came out how it did, because you wrote it on that QWERTY keyboard.

00:26:18.295 –> 00:26:27.075
Grace Chatto: Like if you, if you’d written it on a piano, it wouldn’t have, you know, the way that they just wrote it like that.

00:26:27.075 –> 00:26:28.515
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:26:28.515 –> 00:26:29.495
John Kennedy: When you’re on the tube.

00:26:30.395 –> 00:26:32.075
Jack Patterson: >I pitched it down actually, so it’s like.

00:26:39.228 –> 00:26:47.608
Jack Patterson: >So because of the way these are spread out, it’s like a strange, unnatural intervals, because I’m just using the middle row of the keys.

00:26:47.608 –> 00:26:48.748
Jack Patterson: >Like A to L.

00:26:48.748 –> 00:26:51.468
John Kennedy: Right.

00:26:51.468 –> 00:26:55.128
Jack Patterson: >We did like a talk at The Guardian once.

00:26:55.128 –> 00:27:01.428
Jack Patterson: >Today, I didn’t do it very smoothly, but somehow in The Guardian, I just managed to open the laptop and just go, don’t play it.

00:27:01.428 –> 00:27:07.308
Jack Patterson: >And it was, that was a career highlight, but I’ve kind of bit rusty on the old wordy wordy.

00:27:09.088 –> 00:27:09.548
Jack Patterson: >But yeah.

00:27:09.548 –> 00:27:20.768
John Kennedy: But that’s an interesting thing that had you, even if you’d had the same sounds, but you had them going through a normal piano style keyboard, it might have developed in a completely different way.

00:27:21.108 –> 00:27:21.368
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:27:21.368 –> 00:27:22.868
John Kennedy: It’s interesting, isn’t it?

00:27:22.868 –> 00:27:26.908
Jack Patterson: >I feel like that’s a kind of attention in music that’s interesting.

00:27:26.908 –> 00:27:42.748
Jack Patterson: >Like you have to, I don’t know, keeping like a sense of like connection to like the kind of very raw, early feeling of learning how to play music, I think is quite important for songwriting.

00:27:42.748 –> 00:27:46.328
Jack Patterson: >Because if it’s too complex, it’s hard to write over.

00:27:46.328 –> 00:27:55.548
Jack Patterson: >I mean, this is not always true, of course, because I’m a huge fan of jazz and like a lot of the most complicated music is the most beautiful and the most profound.

00:27:55.548 –> 00:28:16.628
Jack Patterson: >But there is also that weird like, I think it was Kurt Cobain talking about not just hating theory and just wanting to like not know the theory and just doing instinct, just playing with instinct, not thinking about it too much and not worrying like, what is that tritone substitution or that?

00:28:16.628 –> 00:28:17.788
Jack Patterson: >What voicing is that?

00:28:17.788 –> 00:28:19.908
Jack Patterson: >Or what kind of, you know, what key?

00:28:19.908 –> 00:28:20.888
Jack Patterson: >What’s the relative key?

00:28:20.888 –> 00:28:26.748
Jack Patterson: >But, you know, just thinking about just the very instinctual feeling of and that this is the purest way.

00:28:27.008 –> 00:28:29.268
John Kennedy: It’s just a good word.

00:28:29.268 –> 00:28:31.668
John Kennedy: Quirty.

00:28:31.668 –> 00:28:32.548
John Kennedy: Excellent.

00:28:32.548 –> 00:28:40.048
John Kennedy: Maybe we should hear the Finnish demo that you then would have shared with other people when you decided that you would use a different vocalist.

00:28:40.048 –> 00:28:40.328
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:28:40.328 –> 00:28:41.668
John Kennedy: Is that a good idea?

00:28:41.668 –> 00:28:43.108
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, let’s see.

00:28:44.428 –> 00:28:50.568
John Kennedy: And that idea, while you’re searching for that, Jack, Grace, so you had these great singers that you were working with.

00:28:50.568 –> 00:28:53.668
John Kennedy: Why did you decide that you’d get somebody else to sing it?

00:28:54.248 –> 00:29:09.368
Grace Chatto: That was the record label who kind of played us, jess Glynne singing and we just, we loved it and loved her voice and they brought her in and she sang it and it sounded amazing.

00:29:09.368 –> 00:29:16.768
Grace Chatto: But it was difficult because we were also attached to the previous recordings.

00:29:16.768 –> 00:29:20.288
John Kennedy: How long had this whole evolution taken place?

00:29:20.288 –> 00:29:25.768
John Kennedy: Because it sounds like you worked on quite a few different versions and the song was developing and.

00:29:25.768 –> 00:29:32.788
Grace Chatto: Not long actually, relative to now, where we’ve just spent four years making a new song.

00:29:32.788 –> 00:29:34.988
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:29:34.988 –> 00:29:40.268
Grace Chatto: This one, I mean, the energy, it was rolling quickly.

00:29:40.268 –> 00:29:43.168
Grace Chatto: We were like, we have to do this, have to do that.

00:29:43.168 –> 00:29:45.788
Grace Chatto: I don’t know, it’s probably about a month.

00:29:46.168 –> 00:29:48.748
Jack Patterson: >Sorry, this is the lived version.

00:29:48.988 –> 00:29:50.408
Jack Patterson: >Pure instrument.

00:29:50.408 –> 00:29:51.988
Jack Patterson: >I was just looking for.

00:29:54.888 –> 00:29:55.528
John Kennedy: So what is that?

00:29:56.028 –> 00:30:04.768
Jack Patterson: >This was like pre, this is this strange instrumental that I made, which is what we went in with Jimmy, and he’s kind of lyric all the melodies.

00:30:04.768 –> 00:30:05.088
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

00:30:05.528 –> 00:30:16.168
Grace Chatto: Before we started thinking about the words or what it would be about, we’ve worked a lot on the instrumental, which we never do that now.

00:30:16.168 –> 00:30:20.888
Grace Chatto: We did that similar with our song Symphony.

00:30:20.888 –> 00:30:28.588
Grace Chatto: Jack kind of worked a lot on that instrumental before, thinking about what it was going to be about, the lyrics and everything.

00:30:28.588 –> 00:30:37.728
Grace Chatto: But now, the last few years, we tend to always write the lyrics and chords simultaneously.

00:30:37.728 –> 00:30:42.608
Grace Chatto: Not completely simultaneously, obviously, but on the same day.

00:30:42.608 –> 00:30:53.408
John Kennedy: And is that just because that’s the way it goes, or is that more of a, look, let’s do this now together, because it makes the process better in some way?

00:30:53.408 –> 00:31:03.328
Grace Chatto: No, it’s happened quite organically that we’ve moved to writing things from scratch in a group altogether.

00:31:03.328 –> 00:31:13.968
Grace Chatto: But I actually, looking back at this now, I’m thinking we should probably make some instrumentals again, and then think about the words.

00:31:13.968 –> 00:31:14.408
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:31:14.408 –> 00:31:22.588
Grace Chatto: Because often now we think as well about concepts first, and then write the chords, and then, which is all good.

00:31:22.588 –> 00:31:45.988
Grace Chatto: But I guess it’s the reason that’s happened, it’s because we do a lot of collaborative songwriting sessions where the top line writers or the singers, like for example, Julia Michaels, who we wrote the next song with, they want to be involved from the genesis.

00:31:45.988 –> 00:31:49.948
Grace Chatto: They don’t want to hear finished instrumentals.

00:31:49.948 –> 00:31:57.928
Grace Chatto: It’s harder to write to something so kind of complicated as that, I guess.

00:31:57.928 –> 00:31:59.228
Jack Patterson: Yeah.

00:32:00.068 –> 00:32:04.588
Jack Patterson: >I think this might be, this is rather be demo July 2013.

00:32:42.801 –> 00:32:45.921
John Kennedy: It’s interesting, because it is quite different.

00:32:45.921 –> 00:32:47.721
John Kennedy: A lot of the elements are there.

00:32:47.721 –> 00:32:52.741
John Kennedy: But that was the version that you would have played to jess Glynne.

00:32:52.741 –> 00:32:53.841
Grace Chatto: Yeah, basically.

00:32:53.841 –> 00:32:57.561
Grace Chatto: I remember Max Lousadas, who’s the head of Warner Records.

00:32:57.561 –> 00:33:10.601
Grace Chatto: He came into our tiny wooden box studio in South Kilburn Studios, and we played him this, and we were like, this is going to be our next single.

00:33:10.601 –> 00:33:13.341
Grace Chatto: And then everything went from there.

00:33:13.341 –> 00:33:22.201
Grace Chatto: They got very excited and, yeah, I introduced ourselves to jess, and the sound of her voice was just crazy.

00:33:22.201 –> 00:33:26.801
Grace Chatto: She came in once, we recorded it, and then I think she came in again a week later.

00:33:26.801 –> 00:33:30.421
Grace Chatto: We did it with Kyoto instead of Bermondsey.

00:33:30.841 –> 00:33:32.301
Jack Patterson: >We did one session.

00:33:32.301 –> 00:33:38.521
Jack Patterson: >I think she just got back from Ibiza, and yeah, she was like quite tired.

00:33:40.241 –> 00:33:42.021
Jack Patterson: >She’d like just flown in.

00:33:42.021 –> 00:33:51.261
Jack Patterson: >And yeah, so we cut it in Metropolis the following week, but we could get a sense that it was going to sound incredible at that point.

00:33:51.261 –> 00:33:58.701
Jack Patterson: >But then we went to Metropolis and then we kind of, I think we got more and more excited about the song and just dug in and dug in.

00:33:59.161 –> 00:34:04.141
Jack Patterson: >And you hear that the chorus in that one, the piano is like really plinky-plonky.

00:34:04.141 –> 00:34:17.261
Jack Patterson: >Like I think at that point when we re-cut it, we did the new, the much more kind of housey piano, the piano stabs and we recorded a jazz pianist called Anthony Strong.

00:34:17.261 –> 00:34:20.641
Jack Patterson: >He came in and tracked and I think we had like multiple layers of it.

00:34:22.301 –> 00:34:25.681
Jack Patterson: >There’s the Fazzioli Grand Piano in Metropolis.

00:34:25.681 –> 00:34:28.801
Grace Chatto: Which was Freddie Mercury’s piano.

00:34:28.801 –> 00:34:29.121
John Kennedy: Right.

00:34:29.121 –> 00:34:29.741
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:34:29.741 –> 00:34:33.401
Jack Patterson: >I think he was recording there and he made them buy it.

00:34:33.401 –> 00:34:36.881
Jack Patterson: >He was like, can we get a Fazzioli?

00:34:36.881 –> 00:34:38.541
Jack Patterson: >Oh, yeah, sure, sure.

00:34:38.541 –> 00:34:39.421
John Kennedy: Whatever you say, Freddie.

00:34:39.461 –> 00:34:48.381
Jack Patterson: >The next session, it’s like crazy piano, which so the record changed a lot in those weeks.

00:34:48.381 –> 00:34:52.181
John Kennedy: Are you able to play any of those elements that end up on the final version?

00:34:52.181 –> 00:34:53.281
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:34:53.281 –> 00:34:56.741
Jack Patterson: >Annoyingly, I don’t have that Pro Tools session.

00:34:56.741 –> 00:35:07.721
Jack Patterson: >Because basically, the way we make music, we tend to build the beats in Ableton and then record any real instruments and vocals in Pro Tools.

00:35:08.541 –> 00:35:10.401
Jack Patterson: >And I don’t have that session.

00:35:10.401 –> 00:35:12.541
Grace Chatto: You could play the piano stem, though.

00:35:12.541 –> 00:35:13.161
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:35:13.161 –> 00:35:14.201
Grace Chatto: From the stems.

00:35:14.201 –> 00:35:15.281
Jack Patterson: >I might have to jump on to it.

00:35:15.281 –> 00:35:16.521
Jack Patterson: >You might have to give me a minute.

00:35:16.521 –> 00:35:17.401
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:35:17.401 –> 00:35:20.781
John Kennedy: So, this track is continuing to evolve.

00:35:20.781 –> 00:35:22.081
Grace Chatto: Yeah, more and more people are coming in.

00:35:22.081 –> 00:35:23.301
John Kennedy: More and more people are getting involved.

00:35:23.301 –> 00:35:28.481
John Kennedy: But also, you’re finessing and changing your mind about different elements.

00:35:28.961 –> 00:35:34.121
John Kennedy: And like the idea that you’ve got somebody else to come in and play that piano part.

00:35:34.121 –> 00:35:35.181
John Kennedy: And they’re going to do it in a different way.

00:35:35.281 –> 00:35:38.741
John Kennedy: You know, they’re going to bring a different kind of emotion to it.

00:35:38.981 –> 00:35:42.161
John Kennedy: And it’s interesting that you’re still constantly questioning.

00:35:42.161 –> 00:35:52.761
John Kennedy: Because it’s almost as if, you know, at each stage, you could think, right, we’ve done it, we’ve sorted this out, because it must have been really exciting coming across all these different elements and thinking, oh, wow, that sounds great.

00:35:52.761 –> 00:35:54.801
John Kennedy: No, that’s going to stay.

00:35:54.801 –> 00:35:56.481
John Kennedy: But you’re still thinking, no, we’re going to change it.

00:35:56.481 –> 00:35:58.761
John Kennedy: We’re going to swap things out.

00:35:58.761 –> 00:36:03.141
Grace Chatto: Yeah, I don’t know how we made the decision to get Anthony Strong in to play the piano.

00:36:03.401 –> 00:36:21.561
Grace Chatto: But it was like very late at night and until this moment, actually, we weren’t sure whether we were going to go more into making music videos than music, because we were making music videos for other people and we’ve made one for him, for his jazz recording.

00:36:21.561 –> 00:36:24.461
Grace Chatto: So we knew his playing really well.

00:36:26.841 –> 00:36:38.601
Grace Chatto: Jack’s playing the piano as well on Rather Be, but he added the way he would invert the chords, was just in a different style.

00:36:38.601 –> 00:36:39.461
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:36:39.461 –> 00:36:41.801
John Kennedy: Maybe because he wasn’t on the tube and using a qwerty.

00:36:42.541 –> 00:36:46.601
Grace Chatto: Yeah, he was on the Fatsioli, so it inspires you in a different way.

00:36:52.275 –> 00:36:55.395
John Kennedy: So that’s Anthony Strong on The Fancy Only.

00:36:55.395 –> 00:36:59.655
Jack Patterson: >I think it’s like both of us at various times.

00:37:11.770 –> 00:37:16.550
Grace Chatto: Yeah, I can tell which is you and which is him, because he’s like, twatting it.

00:37:18.130 –> 00:37:20.250
Grace Chatto: Jack plays very gently.

00:37:20.250 –> 00:37:20.890
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:37:20.890 –> 00:37:24.550
Jack Patterson: >Also, I think we changed the key when we recorded it.

00:37:24.550 –> 00:37:25.170
Grace Chatto: For jess.

00:37:25.170 –> 00:37:28.430
Jack Patterson: >I wrote it in C, obviously.

00:37:29.530 –> 00:37:30.430
Grace Chatto: The best key.

00:37:30.430 –> 00:37:34.470
Jack Patterson: >And then, yeah, we moved it to B, which I…

00:37:34.470 –> 00:37:41.730
Jack Patterson: >So for all our subsequent live shows, I’ve had these insane automated key changes happening.

00:37:41.730 –> 00:37:43.170
Jack Patterson: >So I always play it in C.

00:37:43.170 –> 00:37:43.710
John Kennedy: Right.

00:37:43.710 –> 00:37:44.150
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:37:44.150 –> 00:37:52.070
Jack Patterson: >So it always has to be like a Nord, if they ever roll out a nice grand piano, and the vet is like, no, please, can I just have it?

00:37:52.070 –> 00:37:53.510
Jack Patterson: >Just give me the midi.

00:37:53.510 –> 00:37:56.010
Jack Patterson: >Although, actually, did I learn it for…

00:37:56.050 –> 00:37:59.470
Grace Chatto: You learned it for the BBC, the piano room.

00:37:59.470 –> 00:38:00.010
Jack Patterson: >In B?

00:38:00.010 –> 00:38:01.090
Grace Chatto: Ken Bruce’s.

00:38:01.090 –> 00:38:02.310
Grace Chatto: Yeah, I think so.

00:38:02.870 –> 00:38:04.510
Jack Patterson: >Oh, no, it’s a different arrangement, though.

00:38:04.510 –> 00:38:05.310
Grace Chatto: Oh, so maybe the key.

00:38:05.310 –> 00:38:07.350
Jack Patterson: >Do you know where they took out all the riffs?

00:38:07.350 –> 00:38:09.170
Grace Chatto: Oh, yeah, so it was just chords.

00:38:09.170 –> 00:38:10.070
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:38:10.070 –> 00:38:10.870
John Kennedy: Brilliant.

00:38:10.870 –> 00:38:12.590
John Kennedy: So what should we hear?

00:38:12.590 –> 00:38:14.370
John Kennedy: Or what can we hear?

00:38:14.370 –> 00:38:19.650
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, I’ve now got the full stems, but I don’t know, it’s fairly simple, this track.

00:38:19.650 –> 00:38:28.390
Grace Chatto: I think you should explain the operator synth, how you get that sound, because as well, it’s in symphony, rockabye, and…

00:38:29.830 –> 00:38:30.890
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, shall I try and do that?

00:38:31.690 –> 00:38:35.550
Jack Patterson: >Okay, so this is how it’s supposed to sound at the end.

00:38:38.070 –> 00:38:52.990
Jack Patterson: >And all it is is a sine wave, just very simple sine wave, but it’s got like a modulation, so like a LFO, which is like a control signal that makes it go wobbly on the pitch, but it only goes wobbly towards the end of the note.

00:38:52.990 –> 00:39:03.590
Jack Patterson: >So the beginning of the note sounds kind of in tune, but then it’s got, it kind of like goes all kind of sad towards the end of each note and a bit kind of mournful.

00:39:03.590 –> 00:39:06.890
Jack Patterson: >To me, that’s the kind of essence of like a lot of what our music is.

00:39:06.890 –> 00:39:13.490
Jack Patterson: >It’s this kind of potentially quite joyful music, but with a kind of undertone of melancholy.

00:39:13.490 –> 00:39:17.310
Jack Patterson: >And yeah, so that synth kind of sums that up, but yeah, what is it?

00:39:17.310 –> 00:39:18.810
Jack Patterson: >It’s just an operator.

00:39:20.530 –> 00:39:22.570
John Kennedy: So that’s operator in Ableton, I think you were saying.

00:39:22.650 –> 00:39:24.330
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:39:24.330 –> 00:39:26.710
Jack Patterson: >So that’s what it sounds like, just open out of the box.

00:39:29.510 –> 00:39:36.110
Jack Patterson: >So, up the octave, so that would have been the original.

00:39:36.110 –> 00:39:39.670
Jack Patterson: >And then I think, so do it go down a semitone.

00:39:39.670 –> 00:39:39.990
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:39:39.990 –> 00:39:44.190
Jack Patterson: >So I would have put like a little pitch on it.

00:39:44.190 –> 00:39:46.170
Jack Patterson: >So now it’s in the wiki.

00:39:46.170 –> 00:39:55.670
Jack Patterson: >And then so it had that melody, I think, and then obviously just like clicked in the rest of the harmonies to give it a kind of, but to get that little, you just turn on the LFO.

00:39:59.730 –> 00:40:01.350
Grace Chatto: Oh, to get the sadness.

00:40:02.710 –> 00:40:04.070
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:40:04.070 –> 00:40:11.050
Jack Patterson: >We turn the release up on the actual and give it a bit more sadness.

00:40:13.190 –> 00:40:14.470
Jack Patterson: >Slow it down.

00:40:16.110 –> 00:40:19.030
Jack Patterson: >And it’s starting to kind of, maybe not that much.

00:40:20.330 –> 00:40:20.690
Jack Patterson: >Ah, yeah.

00:40:20.690 –> 00:40:23.410
Jack Patterson: >So you do have, and then you had to like let it fade in.

00:40:23.410 –> 00:40:30.970
Jack Patterson: >So by pulling the tack up on the envelope, it’s getting there.

00:40:30.970 –> 00:40:32.410
Jack Patterson: >It’s not quite right.

00:40:33.890 –> 00:40:35.030
Jack Patterson: >And then just a bit of reverb.

00:40:35.030 –> 00:40:39.990
John Kennedy: And that in a way became one of the signature sounds of Clean Bandit as you were saying, Grace.

00:40:39.990 –> 00:40:44.450
John Kennedy: So it appears, well, that tool is used in other songs.

00:40:44.450 –> 00:40:45.250
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

00:40:45.250 –> 00:40:52.530
Jack Patterson: >I think we were always interested in those very kind of pure, even with Mozart’s House, that synth was a very kind of simplistic sound.

00:40:52.530 –> 00:41:07.210
Jack Patterson: >I think especially if you’re trying to mix in the classical elements, maintaining that purity in the synth sound design, let those more complex sounds kind of sit on top without it becoming too rich.

00:41:07.210 –> 00:41:09.210
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:41:09.210 –> 00:41:10.510
John Kennedy: I’m conscious of time.

00:41:10.510 –> 00:41:16.710
John Kennedy: So maybe we should move on from Rather Be, unless there’s anything that you particularly want to highlight before we move on.

00:41:17.310 –> 00:41:19.690
Grace Chatto: The bass line is really nice.

00:41:19.690 –> 00:41:19.870
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

00:41:19.870 –> 00:41:27.710
Grace Chatto: The second verse, it was actually at the last minute we decided to take out everything except the bass and the drums.

00:41:30.750 –> 00:41:32.510
Grace Chatto: For setting out on a mission.

00:41:32.510 –> 00:41:33.790
Jack Patterson: >It felt good.

00:41:39.414 –> 00:41:42.054
John Kennedy: And how did you create that bass sound?

00:41:42.054 –> 00:41:42.674
Jack Patterson: >Do you know what?

00:41:42.674 –> 00:41:44.014
Jack Patterson: >I don’t know.

00:41:45.994 –> 00:41:48.034
Jack Patterson: >I think it might be an operator as well.

00:41:48.034 –> 00:41:49.294
Grace Chatto: The one synth producer.

00:41:49.294 –> 00:41:51.254
Jack Patterson: >One synth, yeah.

00:41:51.254 –> 00:41:51.834
John Kennedy: Crucial.

00:41:51.834 –> 00:42:00.494
Jack Patterson: >And now they’ve made a patch in Nexus, which is this big synth that lots of big EDM producers use, and it’s called Bandit.

00:42:00.494 –> 00:42:09.794
Jack Patterson: >And it’s based on, I think it’s not licensed to anything, but when I opened it and I saw that sound, and I was like, oh, that sounds familiar.

00:42:12.394 –> 00:42:14.254
Grace Chatto: Oh my God, is that it?

00:42:14.274 –> 00:42:16.294
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:42:16.294 –> 00:42:16.594
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:42:16.594 –> 00:42:23.334
John Kennedy: So they have taken that signature sound and given it half of your name and put it into Nexus.

00:42:23.334 –> 00:42:24.054
John Kennedy: That’s amazing.

00:42:24.054 –> 00:42:27.734
Grace Chatto: But it hasn’t got as much wobble on it, it’s not as sad.

00:42:27.734 –> 00:42:29.014
Jack Patterson: >It hasn’t got the wobble, yeah.

00:42:29.014 –> 00:42:32.094
Jack Patterson: >Although I didn’t manage to recreate the wobble.

00:42:32.094 –> 00:42:33.394
John Kennedy: But we could hear you getting there.

00:42:33.394 –> 00:42:34.274
Jack Patterson: >It’s getting there, yeah.

00:42:35.194 –> 00:42:35.534
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:42:35.534 –> 00:42:36.874
John Kennedy: But that’s really interesting.

00:42:36.874 –> 00:42:38.054
John Kennedy: That’s quite a tribute.

00:42:38.054 –> 00:42:39.154
Grace Chatto: That’s amazing.

00:42:39.154 –> 00:42:42.754
Jack Patterson: >Now I just use that because it’s way more convenient.

00:42:44.574 –> 00:42:46.574
John Kennedy: Brilliant.

00:42:46.574 –> 00:42:49.414
John Kennedy: What’s it like creating a song like Rather Be, Grace?

00:42:49.754 –> 00:43:00.694
John Kennedy: When it becomes a signature tune, now it’s a calling card, you have to play it again and again and again in a variety of different versions, it seems.

00:43:00.694 –> 00:43:05.894
John Kennedy: You adapt the performance for the situation to do special sessions.

00:43:05.894 –> 00:43:06.774
Grace Chatto: It’s amazing.

00:43:06.774 –> 00:43:10.694
Grace Chatto: I’ve never got bored of playing Rather Be.

00:43:10.694 –> 00:43:11.814
John Kennedy: That’s great.

00:43:11.814 –> 00:43:17.974
Grace Chatto: I mean, we’ve played it so many times in the last 10 years, but it’s always fun.

00:43:17.974 –> 00:43:20.294
Grace Chatto: It just feels so joyous.

00:43:21.974 –> 00:43:46.234
Grace Chatto: As well, it gave us so many opportunities, like it just took us around the world and also was the reason we got to work with Sean Paul on Rockabye, our later song, because his manager proposed to his wife with Rather Be playing.

00:43:46.234 –> 00:43:46.554
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:43:47.114 –> 00:43:58.574
Grace Chatto: And it was like a big kind of proposal where everyone was there and Sean was there, and he heard Rather Be and he was like, what is that song?

00:43:58.574 –> 00:44:02.194
Grace Chatto: And he took those guys to produce something for me.

00:44:02.194 –> 00:44:07.054
Grace Chatto: So he came over from Jamaica and we’d been trying to work with Sean Paul for years.

00:44:07.054 –> 00:44:12.554
Grace Chatto: We’d been to his gig in Shepherd’s Bush and tried to get our CD.

00:44:12.874 –> 00:44:16.354
Jack Patterson: >We gave him the A&E EP, I think.

00:44:16.614 –> 00:44:23.194
Grace Chatto: Yeah, we got backstage at his Shepherd’s Bush show and gave him the EP and said, please, can we do something together?

00:44:23.194 –> 00:44:24.774
Grace Chatto: But we never heard back.

00:44:24.774 –> 00:44:33.514
Grace Chatto: But then years later, after Rather Be came out, he came over from Jamaica so that we could produce stuff for his album.

00:44:33.514 –> 00:44:41.094
Grace Chatto: And just at the end of the session, we just played him Rockabye, which was kind of finished.

00:44:41.094 –> 00:44:43.834
Grace Chatto: We thought it was finished.

00:44:43.834 –> 00:44:55.534
Grace Chatto: And he just loved it and straight away jumped on the mic and did this rap about single moms and it was like the best moment, best studio moment ever.

00:44:55.534 –> 00:44:56.474
John Kennedy: That’s amazing.

00:44:56.474 –> 00:44:59.374
Grace Chatto: So Rather Be literally like took us there.

00:44:59.374 –> 00:45:00.114
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:45:00.114 –> 00:45:01.894
John Kennedy: But it sounds like that was meant to be.

00:45:01.894 –> 00:45:11.974
John Kennedy: If you’re trying to hand Sean Paul your music backstage, and that doesn’t lead anywhere, but he hears your music anyway and falls for it.

00:45:12.234 –> 00:45:13.234
John Kennedy: That’s so great.

00:45:13.234 –> 00:45:13.354
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

00:45:13.354 –> 00:45:14.174
Jack Patterson: >We met his man.

00:45:14.174 –> 00:45:20.854
Jack Patterson: >We were in Jamaica like last week and we were in his manager’s event.

00:45:20.854 –> 00:45:32.014
Jack Patterson: >He’s got a party and yeah, we met his manager’s wife for the first time, which is so nice to live a full circle.

00:45:32.014 –> 00:45:32.834
John Kennedy: That’s great.

00:45:32.834 –> 00:45:35.894
John Kennedy: So the gift that keeps giving rather be.

00:45:35.894 –> 00:45:37.334
John Kennedy: Excellent.

00:45:37.334 –> 00:45:42.174
John Kennedy: We’re going to take a quick break and we’ll be back to look at I Miss You next.

00:45:43.454 –> 00:45:49.434
John Kennedy: This episode is being supported by Tape It, the voice note app designed specifically for musicians and songwriters.

00:45:49.434 –> 00:45:52.694
John Kennedy: And I’ve got one of the masterminds behind Tape It here with me now.

00:45:52.694 –> 00:45:54.454
John Kennedy: Hello Thomas, great to have you on.

00:45:54.454 –> 00:45:56.254
John Kennedy: So why did you create Tape It?

00:45:56.714 –> 00:45:58.734
Thomas: Hi John, it’s great to be here.

00:45:58.734 –> 00:46:06.274
Thomas: We created Tape It because we know so many musicians and songwriters that record their song ideas on the phone all the time.

00:46:06.274 –> 00:46:09.334
Thomas: And pretty much everybody uses Apple’s voice memos for it.

00:46:09.334 –> 00:46:12.694
Thomas: And it’s so easy to record something, but you never find anything again.

00:46:12.694 –> 00:46:18.474
Thomas: And so I called my old bass player Jan and said, Jan, this is silly, why don’t we build the software that we want?

00:46:18.474 –> 00:46:21.974
Thomas: And so over the last three years, we fixed a lot of small things.

00:46:21.974 –> 00:46:23.954
Thomas: We made it much easier to find recordings.

00:46:23.954 –> 00:46:25.754
Thomas: There’s automatic instrument detection.

00:46:25.854 –> 00:46:27.494
Thomas: You can attach notes, text notes.

00:46:27.494 –> 00:46:28.594
Thomas: You can attach photo notes.

00:46:28.594 –> 00:46:32.234
Thomas: You can take a photo of your pedal settings, of your synth preset.

00:46:32.234 –> 00:46:33.414
Thomas: You can set markers.

00:46:33.414 –> 00:46:35.474
Thomas: You can record straight from your lock screen.

00:46:35.474 –> 00:46:40.014
Thomas: And then we made it really easy to listen to long recordings and skim through them.

00:46:40.014 –> 00:46:42.594
Thomas: So loads of small things.

00:46:42.594 –> 00:46:43.454
John Kennedy: That sounds brilliant.

00:46:43.454 –> 00:46:48.854
John Kennedy: So many of the artists that we talk to use voice notes to record their ideas as they’re having them.

00:46:48.854 –> 00:46:53.354
John Kennedy: And yet they often have that very problem where they can’t find the voice note.

00:46:53.354 –> 00:46:59.014
John Kennedy: And even within the episode as we’re recording it, but to have all those features in-built sounds fantastic.

00:46:59.014 –> 00:47:00.414
Thomas: Yeah, it’s exactly that.

00:47:00.414 –> 00:47:03.974
Thomas: And so I think we fixed that and we made it available for free.

00:47:03.974 –> 00:47:09.394
Thomas: No ads, you can just go to the app store and download Tape It and your organizational worries are gone.

00:47:09.394 –> 00:47:12.074
Thomas: And then there’s a completely optional paid upgrade.

00:47:12.074 –> 00:47:15.054
Thomas: And the paid upgrade changes the recording quality.

00:47:15.054 –> 00:47:21.154
Thomas: What we do is combine two microphones on your phone and then we apply much gentler dynamic range compression.

00:47:21.154 –> 00:47:24.994
Thomas: And instead of explaining you the sound, let me just play you two examples.

00:47:25.134 –> 00:47:29.174
Thomas: The first one is a vocal line and voice memos and then we’ll listen to it and tape it.

00:47:29.174 –> 00:47:34.374
Jack Patterson: We’ll see the walls come down and we’ll breathe in.

00:47:34.374 –> 00:47:36.754
Jack Patterson: Will you walk with me?

00:47:36.754 –> 00:47:39.974
Jack Patterson: Will you walk with me?

00:47:39.974 –> 00:47:45.214
Jack Patterson: We’ll see the walls come down and we’ll breathe in.

00:47:45.214 –> 00:47:47.554
Jack Patterson: Will you walk with me?

00:47:47.554 –> 00:47:49.834
Jack Patterson: Will you walk with me?

00:47:49.834 –> 00:47:50.914
Thomas: There you go.

00:47:50.914 –> 00:47:51.394
Thomas: Same phone.

00:47:51.914 –> 00:47:52.574
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:47:52.574 –> 00:47:58.974
John Kennedy: Well, it seems to me like a no-brainer to be downloading Tape It, but we also have a special offer for our Tape notes listeners.

00:47:58.974 –> 00:48:03.094
John Kennedy: You can use the extra features for an entire month, no strings attached.

00:48:03.094 –> 00:48:05.094
John Kennedy: Head to tape.it slash tape notes.

00:48:05.094 –> 00:48:08.694
John Kennedy: That’s tape dot I T slash Tape notes.

00:48:08.694 –> 00:48:09.694
John Kennedy: Thanks again to Thomas.

00:48:09.694 –> 00:48:12.094
John Kennedy: And now on with the show.

00:48:12.094 –> 00:48:14.174
John Kennedy: Time for a quick Tape It feature highlight.

00:48:14.174 –> 00:48:16.794
John Kennedy: Did you know that while you’re recording, you can drop markers?

00:48:16.794 –> 00:48:18.934
John Kennedy: No more scrolling through endless voice notes.

00:48:18.934 –> 00:48:22.014
John Kennedy: Once you’ve finished, you can go back to the markers to find your best bits.

00:48:22.014 –> 00:48:25.774
John Kennedy: You can also name your markers if there’s a specific note you want to add.

00:48:25.774 –> 00:48:33.294
John Kennedy: To find out more, head to the link in a recent episode Show notes or use the promo code Tape notes for 50% off Tape It Pro.

00:48:34.974 –> 00:48:39.374
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at from Clean Bandit is from the second album What Is Love.

00:48:39.374 –> 00:48:43.274
John Kennedy: It’s called I Miss You and Jack is going to give us a little taste.

00:49:48.853 –> 00:49:52.313
John Kennedy: It is Clean Bandit with I Miss You, featuring Julia Michaels.

00:49:52.313 –> 00:49:53.733
John Kennedy: This is from the second album.

00:49:53.733 –> 00:49:55.993
John Kennedy: There were four years in between the albums.

00:49:55.993 –> 00:50:01.573
John Kennedy: And I think with this song, there’s a different approach to how you wrote this one.

00:50:01.573 –> 00:50:02.513
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:50:02.513 –> 00:50:08.533
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, this was probably one of the most intense kind of songwriting sessions.

00:50:08.533 –> 00:50:11.893
Jack Patterson: >I think the most intense songwriting sessions I’ve ever been in.

00:50:11.893 –> 00:50:18.133
Jack Patterson: >And it was in a little studio in Hollywood with Julia Michaels.

00:50:18.753 –> 00:50:32.293
Jack Patterson: >And yeah, we were talking about how Rather B came in with this weird kind of Lyft music instrumental that somehow became-

00:50:32.293 –> 00:50:33.293
Grace Chatto: A global wedding song.

00:50:33.293 –> 00:50:35.393
Jack Patterson: >A global wedding.

00:50:35.393 –> 00:50:35.613
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:50:35.613 –> 00:50:36.733
John Kennedy: Well, an international anthem.

00:50:36.733 –> 00:50:38.133
Jack Patterson: >An international anthem.

00:50:38.133 –> 00:50:43.573
Jack Patterson: >It became the Marks and Spencers music, which is what it says on my secondary school website.

00:50:43.573 –> 00:50:46.693
Jack Patterson: >It’s like Jack Patterson made the Marks and Spencers music.

00:50:46.913 –> 00:50:48.253
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:50:48.653 –> 00:50:51.613
John Kennedy: That’s one frame of reference, isn’t it?

00:50:51.613 –> 00:50:54.533
Jack Patterson: >But yeah, this was very different.

00:50:54.533 –> 00:51:14.233
Jack Patterson: >And I remember playing Julia some ideas and some instrumentals, and she was just, I just need some, just some chords, just some, and so just kind of sat and was just kind of riffing, just playing some chords on the piano for like 10 minutes or something.

00:51:14.233 –> 00:51:15.313
Jack Patterson: >And then she was like, yeah, that’s it.

00:51:16.253 –> 00:51:24.533
Jack Patterson: >And then she was just like, can you just put those, those four chords on a loop for me and just record everything I do?

00:51:24.533 –> 00:51:26.313
Jack Patterson: >So just set that up.

00:51:26.313 –> 00:51:32.053
Jack Patterson: >And she goes into the booth and she just starts singing over and over again on the loop.

00:51:32.053 –> 00:51:34.533
Jack Patterson: >And 40, I think I’ve got it here.

00:51:34.533 –> 00:51:39.693
Jack Patterson: >It’s like, yeah, here’s the file, Fox 500 megabyte file.

00:51:40.713 –> 00:51:45.493
Jack Patterson: >And it’s 47 minutes and 59.

00:51:45.493 –> 00:51:50.173
Jack Patterson: >And at the end of that, she just sang the whole song on the loop.

00:51:50.173 –> 00:51:54.593
Jack Patterson: >But she was just going like, I mean, I’ll just play little bits of it.

00:51:54.593 –> 00:51:55.333
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:51:55.333 –> 00:51:59.393
Grace Chatto: So it was finished after 47 minutes.

00:51:59.393 –> 00:51:59.833
John Kennedy: Wow.

00:51:59.833 –> 00:52:04.893
John Kennedy: So all the elements in the song were there in those 47 minutes, plus all this other stuff.

00:52:05.613 –> 00:52:11.133
Jack Patterson: >No, no, just the song as the vocal, just the top line.

00:52:11.133 –> 00:52:13.213
Jack Patterson: >So just, yeah.

00:52:13.213 –> 00:52:17.973
Jack Patterson: >So all the lyrics and all the melody were just there.

00:52:17.973 –> 00:52:21.233
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, she just wrote that on top of those four chords.

00:52:21.233 –> 00:52:34.633
Jack Patterson: >And then we took it away and then built the whole track and re-harmonized different certain sections, like the pre-chorus has got different chords and did that whole drop section after the fact.

00:52:34.633 –> 00:52:41.553
Jack Patterson: >But just hearing her build that track, build the song line by line was just so intense.

00:52:41.553 –> 00:52:42.693
Jack Patterson: >And it was very real.

00:52:42.713 –> 00:52:51.033
Jack Patterson: >She just, like the stuff she was singing about in the song, it all just happened, I think, like the day before or the week before.

00:52:51.033 –> 00:52:53.053
Jack Patterson: >It was very real, emotional.

00:52:54.393 –> 00:52:57.773
Jack Patterson: >It was a very recent break up that she was writing about.

00:52:57.773 –> 00:53:00.433
Jack Patterson: >And she just left the session.

00:53:00.433 –> 00:53:00.933
Jack Patterson: >That was it.

00:53:00.933 –> 00:53:04.733
Jack Patterson: >She just walked out and she’s just like in tears and just walked out of the room.

00:53:04.733 –> 00:53:05.633
Jack Patterson: >It’s like, bye.

00:53:05.633 –> 00:53:06.493
Jack Patterson: >And it’s like, fuck.

00:53:06.493 –> 00:53:07.473
Jack Patterson: >And then that was it.

00:53:07.473 –> 00:53:13.713
Jack Patterson: >And then we saw her again, like a week later, I think, when we’d been working on the production in the meantime.

00:53:13.713 –> 00:53:16.213
Jack Patterson: >And then she came in, was it later?

00:53:16.213 –> 00:53:16.713
Jack Patterson: >When did we go?

00:53:16.713 –> 00:53:17.813
Grace Chatto: No, we did it in London.

00:53:17.813 –> 00:53:19.213
Grace Chatto: We did the production in London.

00:53:19.213 –> 00:53:21.553
Jack Patterson: >Did the production, but then we went back to LA.

00:53:22.313 –> 00:53:25.013
Grace Chatto: Oh no, no, we did go back in with her, yeah.

00:53:25.013 –> 00:53:26.773
Jack Patterson: >And do you remember when she was like, this is it?

00:53:26.933 –> 00:53:29.093
Jack Patterson: >And we played like quite a few variates.

00:53:29.093 –> 00:53:46.713
Jack Patterson: >She would, we went back in to work on the production with her and she kind of came in and she wasn’t really feeling, cause she just had this huge song issues, which have amazing, like what I thought was like spectacular kind of modern product, this amazing pizzicato kind of production.

00:53:46.713 –> 00:53:47.393
Grace Chatto: Very minimal.

00:53:48.013 –> 00:53:51.273
Jack Patterson: >Very minimal, but extremely effective and it’s like shit, how do you do that?

00:53:51.273 –> 00:53:52.953
Jack Patterson: >Like how do you do that on the fly?

00:53:52.953 –> 00:53:56.053
Jack Patterson: >That’s like really genius production.

00:53:56.053 –> 00:54:01.073
Jack Patterson: >So it was quite like daunting to be trying to like follow that.

00:54:01.073 –> 00:54:06.693
Jack Patterson: >And yeah, we were showing her quite a few things and she’s just like, that’s not it.

00:54:06.693 –> 00:54:08.793
Grace Chatto: Yeah, it was always too much.

00:54:08.793 –> 00:54:12.813
Grace Chatto: She just wanted everything really simple and stripped back, didn’t she?

00:54:13.053 –> 00:54:23.713
Grace Chatto: Which we, by that point in our music making career, we were just adding like hundreds of layers of sounds and everything.

00:54:23.713 –> 00:54:31.493
Grace Chatto: Like our song Tears with Louisa Johnson, there’s just like millions of sounds on top of each other.

00:54:31.493 –> 00:54:41.453
Grace Chatto: But then this, so she was like, yeah, she wanted like minimal drums and not too many synths at all.

00:54:42.513 –> 00:54:45.433
John Kennedy: Can we hear the original session though?

00:54:45.433 –> 00:54:45.593
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:54:45.593 –> 00:54:47.053
John Kennedy: Or a little bit of it?

00:54:47.053 –> 00:54:48.573
Jack Patterson: >I hope she doesn’t mind.

00:54:52.313 –> 00:54:54.773
Jack Patterson: >So those are just the four chords you can hear.

00:54:58.033 –> 00:54:59.053
Jack Patterson: >There’s like a load of feedback.

00:54:59.053 –> 00:55:02.353
Jack Patterson: >I think she starts complaining about the feedback.

00:55:02.353 –> 00:55:03.773
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, there’s a lot of buzzing.

00:55:03.773 –> 00:55:05.993
Jack Patterson: >I can’t tell if it’s headphones or…

00:55:11.413 –> 00:55:14.373
Jack Patterson: >But this loop just goes on for almost 50 minutes.

00:55:19.973 –> 00:55:21.953
John Kennedy: So it’s just the loop and the click.

00:55:28.021 –> 00:55:28.841
Jack Patterson: >Then the engineer comes in.

00:55:33.241 –> 00:55:34.441
John Kennedy: We’re in the room.

00:55:34.441 –> 00:55:35.101
John Kennedy: We’re there too.

00:56:13.925 –> 00:56:15.925
Jack Patterson: >I have to add to this a little bit.

00:56:16.965 –> 00:56:30.345
John Kennedy: It’s really interesting, because it’s almost as if she’s, well, the want of a better word, but meditating on the chords and thinking, what kind of response is this having to me?

00:56:31.705 –> 00:56:40.525
John Kennedy: And just thinking about stuff and then presumably, in a few minutes, she’ll start saying some words.

00:56:40.525 –> 00:56:41.605
John Kennedy: It’s really interesting.

00:56:41.605 –> 00:56:43.565
Jack Patterson: Yeah.

00:56:43.565 –> 00:56:47.005
John Kennedy: But also, we can’t necessarily hear it, but the chords sound great.

00:56:47.005 –> 00:56:52.125
Jack Patterson: >But yeah, the chords, I’ll put it on the chords, but let me just skip ahead a little bit.

00:57:30.952 –> 00:57:38.572
Jack Patterson: >I didn’t remember, actually, I thought she just started with the beginning of the song, but yeah, listening back, and then, yeah, let’s see.

00:57:39.172 –> 00:57:45.052
Jack Patterson: >No, you didn’t call your parents, and tell them that we ended, because I know that they’d be offended.

00:57:48.432 –> 00:57:53.872
Jack Patterson: >No, you didn’t call your parents, and tell them that we ended, because you know that they’d be offended.

00:57:57.072 –> 00:57:58.532
Jack Patterson: >Skipping ahead to like.

00:57:58.552 –> 00:58:05.552
Jack Patterson: >I miss you, yeah, I miss you, oh, I do, I miss you, yeah, I miss you.

00:58:05.552 –> 00:58:08.892
Jack Patterson: >She’ll kill me for not having like auto-tune on this.

00:58:08.892 –> 00:58:10.812
Jack Patterson: >You can put it on afterwards, right?

00:58:12.072 –> 00:58:15.392
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:58:15.392 –> 00:58:18.292
Jack Patterson: >Talk, but I’m getting ahead of myself.

00:58:22.752 –> 00:58:25.432
Jack Patterson: >So now we’re like 30 minutes.

00:58:25.432 –> 00:58:27.192
Jack Patterson: >And then like get towards…

00:58:30.812 –> 00:58:34.292
Jack Patterson: >And then the loop was just getting longer and longer, and then she’s just like going rare.

00:58:34.292 –> 00:58:37.852
Jack Patterson: >And eventually she just like sings the whole song.

00:58:37.852 –> 00:58:43.792
Jack Patterson: >I know you didn’t call your parents, and tell them that we entered, cause you know that they’d be offended.

00:59:18.812 –> 00:59:24.072
Jack Patterson: >And I just keep lying to myself, I can’t believe it.

00:59:24.092 –> 00:59:29.452
Jack Patterson: >I miss you, yeah, I miss you.

00:59:29.452 –> 00:59:29.952
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

00:59:29.952 –> 00:59:32.032
John Kennedy: And you used that vocal.

00:59:32.032 –> 00:59:33.092
Jack Patterson: >I think we did.

00:59:33.092 –> 00:59:34.492
John Kennedy: On the finished track.

00:59:34.492 –> 00:59:39.872
Jack Patterson: >I think she may have recut parts of it, but we definitely used a fair chunk of it.

00:59:39.872 –> 00:59:40.672
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:59:40.672 –> 00:59:44.652
Jack Patterson: >And yeah, you can see on the little cursor, it’s like 46 minutes.

00:59:44.992 –> 00:59:46.372
Jack Patterson: >She just sang through the first.

00:59:46.372 –> 00:59:50.832
Jack Patterson: >I mean, I was skipping through, but if you were to listen to it, you’ll hear the loop never stops.

00:59:50.832 –> 00:59:53.852
Jack Patterson: >And she’s just constantly writing and thinking.

00:59:53.852 –> 00:59:59.172
Jack Patterson: >And I was just like watching her in awe as this kind of stalagmite kind of just grew.

00:59:59.172 –> 01:00:02.112
Jack Patterson: >And then at the end, just, yeah, that was it.

01:00:02.112 –> 01:00:02.932
Jack Patterson: >That was the song.

01:00:02.932 –> 01:00:10.392
Jack Patterson: >And then we took it and built all the other, the production elements kind of around that.

01:00:10.392 –> 01:00:11.572
John Kennedy: What an experience.

01:00:11.572 –> 01:00:11.752
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:00:12.412 –> 01:00:17.552
John Kennedy: But and a lot of patience because it’s trying to work out.

01:00:17.552 –> 01:00:19.372
John Kennedy: Do we interrupt?

01:00:19.432 –> 01:00:20.092
Jack Patterson: >I know.

01:00:20.092 –> 01:00:25.112
Jack Patterson: >And when I was playing the backups, thinking shit actually, because I haven’t listened to it since then.

01:00:25.112 –> 01:00:29.712
Jack Patterson: >And I’ve always thought, oh God, one day I’m going to play that whole take in a podcast.

01:00:29.712 –> 01:00:30.952
Jack Patterson: >And it’s going to be like.

01:00:30.952 –> 01:00:31.152
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:00:31.152 –> 01:00:33.912
John Kennedy: I mean, ideally, you’d like us to include the whole thing.

01:00:36.472 –> 01:00:39.392
John Kennedy: And then she just left and then left you with that recording.

01:00:39.392 –> 01:00:43.992
John Kennedy: And then you use that as the basis for the rest of the song.

01:00:43.992 –> 01:00:44.372
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:00:44.372 –> 01:00:47.392
John Kennedy: So, I mean, coming away from that, obviously you had a moving experience.

01:00:47.392 –> 01:00:49.292
John Kennedy: You were thinking, wow, that was incredible.

01:00:49.292 –> 01:00:51.132
John Kennedy: That was intense.

01:00:51.132 –> 01:00:58.972
John Kennedy: What elements started to come to you that you thought, we’re going to take in this direction, we’re going to use this kind of a rhythm.

01:00:58.972 –> 01:01:05.892
Jack Patterson: >I remember thinking it was like very, for me, it felt quite boring, just having those four chords.

01:01:05.892 –> 01:01:09.132
Jack Patterson: >And maybe it’s because I’d listened to it on repeat for an hour.

01:01:09.132 –> 01:01:30.672
Jack Patterson: >But yeah, we wanted to kind of, and we were quite scared to present her, like the change, because it goes somewhere else in the pre, and then it’s got quite a bombastic kind of drop section with like, you know, marching drums and like an electric flute and lots of cellos and kind of a dancehall beat.

01:01:31.472 –> 01:01:35.752
John Kennedy: Yeah, so it’s quite a hard genre to describe that song, isn’t it?

01:01:35.752 –> 01:01:37.692
John Kennedy: So what genre is this?

01:01:37.692 –> 01:01:39.692
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, it’s dancehall.

01:01:42.172 –> 01:01:43.352
Jack Patterson: >It’s bashment.

01:01:46.192 –> 01:01:49.572
John Kennedy: Maybe we should hear some of those elements then, if you’re able to.

01:01:49.572 –> 01:01:50.132
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:01:50.132 –> 01:01:51.532
Jack Patterson: >Okay, let’s flip back to the-

01:01:51.532 –> 01:01:54.492
John Kennedy: Maybe start with what came first or-

01:01:54.492 –> 01:01:54.872
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, so-

01:01:55.212 –> 01:01:58.492
Jack Patterson: >Now you’re out in carbo, hanging with your brother.

01:01:58.492 –> 01:02:00.312
Jack Patterson: >So you can see it’s very similar.

01:02:00.312 –> 01:02:02.472
Jack Patterson: >I think that sounds like the same take to me.

01:02:02.472 –> 01:02:03.692
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

01:02:03.692 –> 01:02:12.752
Grace Chatto: And those lyrics is so crazy because she said to this person, she was singing about he was in carbo in that moment, hanging with his brother.

01:02:12.752 –> 01:02:17.112
Grace Chatto: So she was literally singing about that moment.

01:02:17.112 –> 01:02:17.332
Jack Patterson: >Okay.

01:02:17.332 –> 01:02:17.892
Jack Patterson: >So what did we do?

01:02:19.172 –> 01:02:20.372
Jack Patterson: >Oh, so there’s these BVs.

01:02:20.372 –> 01:02:21.512
Jack Patterson: >these things came in, didn’t they?

01:02:21.512 –> 01:02:21.632
Jack Patterson: >The…

01:02:26.032 –> 01:02:27.492
Grace Chatto: Vocoder.

01:02:27.492 –> 01:02:31.472
Jack Patterson: >That’s not the vocoder, that’s just, that’s her harmonies.

01:02:31.472 –> 01:02:34.972
Jack Patterson: >But yeah, this is when we figured out how to use the…

01:02:34.972 –> 01:02:36.432
Jack Patterson: >Is it Image and Heap?

01:02:36.432 –> 01:02:38.312
Jack Patterson: >Who uses all the vocoder?

01:02:38.312 –> 01:02:39.472
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:02:39.472 –> 01:02:41.612
Jack Patterson: >Did a kind of Image and Heap tutorial.

01:02:43.952 –> 01:02:45.712
Jack Patterson: >It’s called antares Harmony Engine.

01:02:46.252 –> 01:02:47.872
Jack Patterson: >It’s not a vocoder, it’s kind of different.

01:02:47.872 –> 01:02:55.792
Jack Patterson: >It creates like fake harmonies based on, when you play MIDI in, so you can play the piano and it will generate the harmonies.

01:03:08.252 –> 01:03:12.512
Jack Patterson: >But yeah, the first thing we changed was the pre-chorus, so it goes to different chords in.

01:03:16.292 –> 01:03:18.792
Jack Patterson: >This is all the same, but now we thought, let’s move away.

01:03:23.992 –> 01:03:27.692
John Kennedy: So these are the cellos.

01:03:28.332 –> 01:03:37.292
Jack Patterson: >I think it’s like four stacks of cello.

01:03:37.292 –> 01:03:39.832
Grace Chatto: Yeah, yeah, we always start with the lowest one and then…

01:03:47.203 –> 01:03:48.643
John Kennedy: And how do you mic them up?

01:03:48.643 –> 01:03:50.363
John Kennedy: How do you record the cello?

01:03:50.363 –> 01:03:57.343
John Kennedy: I mean, do you have a particular way that creates your sound, or does it change every time?

01:03:57.343 –> 01:04:01.343
Jack Patterson: >We tend to like to have quite a lot of control.

01:04:01.343 –> 01:04:06.563
Jack Patterson: >This was done probably just a single mic in quite a dry room.

01:04:06.563 –> 01:04:08.323
Grace Chatto: Where did we do this?

01:04:08.323 –> 01:04:09.723
Jack Patterson: >I think we did this.

01:04:09.723 –> 01:04:11.003
Grace Chatto: In Kilburn?

01:04:11.003 –> 01:04:13.243
Jack Patterson: >No, in LA.

01:04:13.263 –> 01:04:16.423
Grace Chatto: Oh, no, because we wouldn’t have had the cello there.

01:04:17.103 –> 01:04:18.683
Grace Chatto: I don’t think.

01:04:18.683 –> 01:04:24.983
Grace Chatto: Because I can’t travel with the cello that I record with because you have to buy a seat for it on the plane.

01:04:24.983 –> 01:04:25.683
Jack Patterson: >It’s very special.

01:04:25.683 –> 01:04:30.903
Jack Patterson: >Grace’s dad made this cello and it’s one of a kind.

01:04:31.643 –> 01:04:33.203
John Kennedy: You only record with this cello?

01:04:33.203 –> 01:04:34.723
John Kennedy: Do you perform with it?

01:04:34.723 –> 01:04:38.263
John Kennedy: I’m sure I’ve seen you with various different instruments.

01:04:38.263 –> 01:04:40.063
Grace Chatto: Yeah, I perform with it.

01:04:40.703 –> 01:04:47.903
Grace Chatto: I would have had it at truckfest when we did the orchestral collaboration.

01:04:47.903 –> 01:05:04.583
Grace Chatto: But normally when we tour, I have a few electric cellos because it’s quite hard to actually mic up the acoustic cello in a way that sounds good, especially in indoor venues where there’s speakers pointing.

01:05:04.683 –> 01:05:07.083
Jack Patterson: >Because it’s just like a big resonant body.

01:05:07.083 –> 01:05:11.303
Jack Patterson: >So if you’re trying to get the cello really, it just feeds back itself.

01:05:11.303 –> 01:05:17.363
Jack Patterson: >The sob just starts vibrating the whole cello, and it acts like a little speaker itself.

01:05:17.363 –> 01:05:20.923
Jack Patterson: >Because you’ve got big sobs under the stage.

01:05:20.923 –> 01:05:21.703
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

01:05:21.703 –> 01:05:24.423
Grace Chatto: So I only perform with it at truckfest.

01:05:24.423 –> 01:05:25.143
John Kennedy: Right.

01:05:25.143 –> 01:05:28.023
John Kennedy: Well, I don’t know whether it’s on the tape.

01:05:28.023 –> 01:05:30.623
John Kennedy: You performed at truckfestival last year in Oxford.

01:05:30.623 –> 01:05:37.863
John Kennedy: I happened to be there, and it was a very special occasion because you were performing with your cello teacher who was the conductor of the orchestra.

01:05:38.583 –> 01:05:38.703
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:05:38.703 –> 01:05:40.323
John Kennedy: That was performing that day.

01:05:40.323 –> 01:05:41.363
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

01:05:41.363 –> 01:05:53.343
Grace Chatto: He was a huge superstar in truckfest because they do it every year, and the whole audience were going crazy for Robert Max and moshing, listening to classical music.

01:05:53.343 –> 01:05:54.063
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:05:54.363 –> 01:05:54.983
John Kennedy: I was there.

01:05:55.223 –> 01:06:02.463
John Kennedy: I can testify that they were moshing to classical music in the pouring rain on a cold Saturday morning in Oxford.

01:06:02.463 –> 01:06:03.723
John Kennedy: But it was quite wonderful.

01:06:04.743 –> 01:06:09.243
John Kennedy: And your performance, the whole performance with the orchestra was just fantastic.

01:06:09.243 –> 01:06:11.343
Jack Patterson: >Grace, what did you describe?

01:06:11.363 –> 01:06:15.803
Grace Chatto: I just said just now, I think it was the best day of my life.

01:06:15.803 –> 01:06:17.383
Grace Chatto: One up, one up.

01:06:17.383 –> 01:06:24.283
Grace Chatto: It was so special in many ways, and it was pouring with rain which just made it even more crazy.

01:06:24.283 –> 01:06:25.003
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:06:25.003 –> 01:06:26.383
Jack Patterson: >My keyboard was soaked.

01:06:28.483 –> 01:06:36.003
Jack Patterson: >Because we’re used to doing gigs where it’s a bit more, because we didn’t have our team there or like backline crew and stuff.

01:06:36.123 –> 01:06:37.043
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, it was quite-

01:06:37.043 –> 01:06:40.163
John Kennedy: There wasn’t much room on the stage, so you were quite near the front.

01:06:40.163 –> 01:06:40.723
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:06:40.723 –> 01:06:45.803
Grace Chatto: Yeah, because there was a whole symphony orchestra with full percussion section and everything.

01:06:45.803 –> 01:06:47.223
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, that was great.

01:06:47.223 –> 01:06:48.603
Grace Chatto: Getting wet.

01:06:48.603 –> 01:06:53.783
John Kennedy: Yeah, which you don’t necessarily want to do with electrics involved and everything.

01:06:53.783 –> 01:06:54.623
John Kennedy: Yeah, crazy.

01:06:56.923 –> 01:07:03.323
John Kennedy: So, you recorded the cellos, stacked them up, start with the lowest first, and do you play all of those, Grace?

01:07:03.323 –> 01:07:04.063
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:07:04.063 –> 01:07:05.703
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, so this is that stack.

01:07:23.852 –> 01:07:25.392
Jack Patterson: >You seem to have twatted it.

01:07:25.392 –> 01:07:26.372
Jack Patterson: >There, look.

01:07:31.392 –> 01:07:33.732
Jack Patterson: >But you don’t notice that in the middle.

01:07:33.732 –> 01:07:34.472
Jack Patterson: >Oh, you do a little bit.

01:07:34.472 –> 01:07:35.072
Grace Chatto: Oh yeah.

01:08:03.417 –> 01:08:13.637
John Kennedy: So now we hear all the changes you mentioned that have taken the song in a completely different direction, not a different direction, but just to a different place.

01:08:13.637 –> 01:08:18.137
John Kennedy: And then you went back to Meet Julia to play her all these developments.

01:08:18.137 –> 01:08:29.417
John Kennedy: Was she going to be re-recording some of the vocals, or was this just, because I’m assuming when you met up with her again, you were hoping this was gonna be the final version, but you wanted her to hear it.

01:08:30.017 –> 01:08:32.577
Grace Chatto: Yeah, we were nervous, definitely.

01:08:32.577 –> 01:08:33.557
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:08:33.557 –> 01:08:42.437
Jack Patterson: >I think we worked in the studio and she heard a few versions, and she was kind of, yeah, I remember her being like, we’re not there yet.

01:08:42.437 –> 01:08:50.177
Jack Patterson: >But it was an amazing moment when we presented this version, and she was like, yeah, that’s it, you’ve got it.

01:08:50.177 –> 01:08:57.917
Jack Patterson: >Which was just the vocoder on its own, that kind of stripped back, dropping onto just, yeah, there’s the vocoder with that drum line.

01:08:57.917 –> 01:09:11.117
Jack Patterson: >There’s that kind of drum line sample, which is the, this guy, that fill, which is like, you know, like the American, that drum line tradition they have in college.

01:09:11.117 –> 01:09:13.217
John Kennedy: From New Orleans or from college.

01:09:13.417 –> 01:09:13.817
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:09:13.817 –> 01:09:14.937
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:09:14.937 –> 01:09:27.617
Jack Patterson: >So that’s from that sound drum line sample library, which is like a big, incredible midi of enabled drum line instrument where you can like program in drum lines.

01:09:27.617 –> 01:09:31.417
Jack Patterson: >So shout out to that sound.

01:09:31.417 –> 01:09:35.997
Jack Patterson: >And they reached out, they heard it, and they were like, thanks for using our sample.

01:09:35.997 –> 01:09:37.037
John Kennedy: Oh, that’s cool.

01:09:37.037 –> 01:09:38.177
John Kennedy: So they recognized it.

01:09:38.177 –> 01:09:38.757
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:09:38.757 –> 01:09:39.097
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:09:39.097 –> 01:09:40.057
John Kennedy: Identified it.

01:09:40.057 –> 01:09:40.297
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:09:40.297 –> 01:09:41.317
John Kennedy: Amazing.

01:09:41.537 –> 01:09:43.917
John Kennedy: So then you got a nod of approval then from Judith.

01:09:44.077 –> 01:09:46.257
John Kennedy: She was stoked, is maybe the…

01:09:46.257 –> 01:09:48.137
John Kennedy: She was stoked by that.

01:09:48.137 –> 01:09:49.937
John Kennedy: She thought, wow, that sounds great.

01:09:49.937 –> 01:09:50.897
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:09:50.897 –> 01:09:51.457
Jack Patterson: >And then, yeah.

01:09:51.457 –> 01:09:56.097
Jack Patterson: >And then I guess then the bashment begins, which is just…

01:09:56.097 –> 01:09:59.857
Jack Patterson: >It sounds quite like boasty, actually, the drumming.

01:10:02.557 –> 01:10:02.937
John Kennedy: Oh, yeah.

01:10:05.597 –> 01:10:06.157
Jack Patterson: >Kind of.

01:10:06.157 –> 01:10:07.097
Jack Patterson: >It’s a fit…

01:10:08.577 –> 01:10:10.177
Jack Patterson: >Similar.

01:10:10.177 –> 01:10:12.697
Jack Patterson: >I don’t know what the bass is doing.

01:10:12.697 –> 01:10:13.237
Jack Patterson: >I think it’s…

01:10:13.237 –> 01:10:13.937
Jack Patterson: >That’s what it’s like.

01:10:23.493 –> 01:10:34.513
John Kennedy: And when you’re assembling all these beats, is that just you on your own, Jack, or are you running it by Grace and Luke, or is Luke involved?

01:10:34.513 –> 01:10:41.073
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, Luke gets involved with additional production, mostly with the drum stuff.

01:10:41.073 –> 01:10:50.493
Jack Patterson: >It’s hard to remember what, like who, and we mixed and worked on this with Mark Ralph as well.

01:10:50.493 –> 01:10:50.713
John Kennedy: Right.

01:10:51.033 –> 01:10:51.533
Jack Patterson: >So he was-

01:10:51.533 –> 01:10:52.193
John Kennedy: The producer.

01:10:52.193 –> 01:10:52.773
Jack Patterson: >The producer.

01:10:52.773 –> 01:10:55.713
John Kennedy: A former Tape notes alumni.

01:10:55.713 –> 01:10:59.573
John Kennedy: I don’t know, alumni is the right, but he’s been a guest a couple of times.

01:10:59.573 –> 01:11:00.733
John Kennedy: Yeah, he’s an amazing producer.

01:11:00.733 –> 01:11:02.173
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:11:03.053 –> 01:11:10.733
Jack Patterson: >I can’t remember the exact process, but we probably would have gone quite deep with Mark on this one.

01:11:12.433 –> 01:11:22.293
Jack Patterson: >We tend to get it to a certain level in Ableton, and then once we start getting the final vocals, take it to Mark and then mix it down.

01:11:22.293 –> 01:11:32.313
Jack Patterson: >At that period, we were stemming it all out on his old desk, which was the Conny Plank desk that Kraftwerk used to get that.

01:11:33.613 –> 01:11:38.713
Jack Patterson: >It was always a very painstaking process, but it was good.

01:11:39.813 –> 01:11:42.273
Jack Patterson: >I think it was very Zen.

01:11:42.273 –> 01:11:46.953
Jack Patterson: >It forced you to really listen to every element for a long time.

01:11:49.913 –> 01:11:51.933
Jack Patterson: >And then it comes back together.

01:11:51.933 –> 01:11:54.333
Jack Patterson: >It’s like rebuilding it.

01:11:54.333 –> 01:11:59.973
Jack Patterson: >And then his motto was like, if you can’t hear something in the mix, it shouldn’t be there.

01:11:59.973 –> 01:12:11.813
Jack Patterson: >So his process was always about any little subtle details that were not quite audible, just get rid of them.

01:12:11.813 –> 01:12:14.913
Jack Patterson: >So it’s like simplifying and distilling the mix.

01:12:15.673 –> 01:12:15.773
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:12:15.773 –> 01:12:20.933
Grace Chatto: And we were at that point, we were in the same building as Mark Ralph.

01:12:20.933 –> 01:12:24.533
Grace Chatto: So our studio was like underneath his.

01:12:24.533 –> 01:12:30.093
Grace Chatto: So it would be kind of like doing stuff downstairs, then running it up there and going back and forth.

01:12:30.093 –> 01:12:30.813
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:12:30.813 –> 01:12:31.873
John Kennedy: That sounds like fun.

01:12:31.873 –> 01:12:32.093
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:12:32.093 –> 01:12:32.353
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

01:12:32.533 –> 01:12:33.813
Grace Chatto: It was really cool.

01:12:33.813 –> 01:12:38.293
John Kennedy: Maybe you could quickly build through the parts and then go into the break.

01:12:38.293 –> 01:12:40.813
Jack Patterson: >So what else is this?

01:12:40.813 –> 01:12:41.613
Jack Patterson: >So the drums.

01:12:50.232 –> 01:12:53.172
Grace Chatto: It sounds so nice like that, just the bass and drums.

01:12:53.172 –> 01:12:55.752
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:12:55.752 –> 01:12:56.252
Jack Patterson: >I got pits.

01:13:01.993 –> 01:13:02.753
Jack Patterson: >What is that contact?

01:13:08.136 –> 01:13:09.696
Jack Patterson: >I think it is.

01:13:09.696 –> 01:13:11.916
Jack Patterson: >Contact, Pizzicato Strings.

01:13:11.916 –> 01:13:18.916
Jack Patterson: >Like, when you’re playing bowed strings, it’s really hard to fake them with a plugin.

01:13:18.916 –> 01:13:22.356
Jack Patterson: >But Pits, kind of get away with it, can’t you?

01:13:22.356 –> 01:13:25.076
Grace Chatto: I think that’s a mix of real and contact.

01:13:32.993 –> 01:13:42.713
Grace Chatto: Because sometimes we make it in contact, and then record it and miss the synthesized sound.

01:13:42.713 –> 01:13:47.413
Grace Chatto: Also with guitar, we often do that, like Jack has this special Russian guitar.

01:13:47.413 –> 01:13:52.013
Jack Patterson: >Oh yeah, we got sent a PDF that said there’s some questions to prepare.

01:13:52.013 –> 01:13:53.433
John Kennedy: Right, yes, yeah.

01:13:53.433 –> 01:14:03.313
Jack Patterson: >And that would be, I think, maybe one of the plugins, this Russian electric guitar VST called Ilya Efimov.

01:14:03.313 –> 01:14:05.373
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

01:14:05.373 –> 01:14:20.533
Grace Chatto: I was just gonna say with the contact strings, often we end up layering the fake ones with the real ones because it gives like a nice body, especially in pizzicato, which is what we’ve done there.

01:14:20.533 –> 01:14:21.293
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:14:21.293 –> 01:14:27.833
Grace Chatto: But then with bowed strings, none of the synthesized versions sound.

01:14:27.833 –> 01:14:28.013
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:14:29.073 –> 01:14:40.513
Grace Chatto: You can’t really emulate it because even just this way that you use the speed of the bow or different parts of the note, you can’t really get it.

01:14:40.513 –> 01:14:46.733
Grace Chatto: Although once you did do a fake one and it sounded so real, I was like, who recorded that?

01:14:46.733 –> 01:14:51.493
Grace Chatto: And Jack pretended he got one of our friends to come in and take my job.

01:14:52.633 –> 01:14:53.273
John Kennedy: Outrageous.

01:14:55.173 –> 01:15:00.093
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, you can almost get away with it with the cello, violin, you can’t get away with it.

01:15:02.913 –> 01:15:05.273
Jack Patterson: >Soon you will be able to, I’m sure, with AI.

01:15:05.273 –> 01:15:06.153
John Kennedy: Right.

01:15:06.153 –> 01:15:07.793
Grace Chatto: No, I don’t think so.

01:15:07.793 –> 01:15:09.713
Jack Patterson: >I don’t know, what was you trying to do with that?

01:15:09.713 –> 01:15:10.773
Jack Patterson: >I miss you, just play it.

01:15:10.773 –> 01:15:13.573
John Kennedy: I think we just wanted to round off the song.

01:15:13.573 –> 01:15:20.713
John Kennedy: One way we often do that is to go through and you kind of add each element through the various different parts.

01:15:20.713 –> 01:15:21.513
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:15:21.513 –> 01:15:22.393
Jack Patterson: >So where did we get to?

01:15:29.667 –> 01:15:32.267
Jack Patterson: >And then what’s this thing, Warfare?

01:15:32.267 –> 01:15:33.747
Jack Patterson: >Ah, that’s a sub.

01:15:37.347 –> 01:15:38.907
Jack Patterson: >I think that’s a fake piano.

01:15:38.907 –> 01:15:39.867
Jack Patterson: >I think that’s Keyscape.

01:15:48.785 –> 01:15:50.345
Jack Patterson: >And the vocoder comes in.

01:15:50.345 –> 01:15:51.665
Jack Patterson: >Where are you?

01:15:52.945 –> 01:15:54.005
Jack Patterson: >See, I’m like the worst DJ.

01:16:05.225 –> 01:16:08.325
Jack Patterson: >It’s weird, because it does have a back beat on the two and four as well.

01:16:08.325 –> 01:16:10.885
Jack Patterson: >So it’s quite confused, the drums.

01:16:14.765 –> 01:16:16.345
Jack Patterson: >I had steel drums, I forgot about these guys.

01:16:20.605 –> 01:16:24.525
Jack Patterson: >And then the pedal, and then there’s got the mid late.

01:16:39.985 –> 01:16:42.025
Jack Patterson: >Those cellos are so nice on their own, those guys.

01:17:19.718 –> 01:17:33.438
Grace Chatto: Jack’s got this electronic wind instrument that’s like, cause he’s originally a saxophonist, and yeah, it’s like a midi clarinet.

01:17:33.438 –> 01:17:38.318
Jack Patterson: >That’s why I used to play that part live, but we didn’t actually use it.

01:17:38.318 –> 01:17:44.078
Jack Patterson: >And we had an argument about this on the way here, cause Grace was like, you should bring your ee-wee to the studio.

01:17:44.378 –> 01:17:50.318
Jack Patterson: >I was like, well, my statistician brain was like, yeah, but it wasn’t actually part of the recording process, was it?

01:17:50.318 –> 01:17:52.358
Jack Patterson: >It was just, I only use it live.

01:17:52.978 –> 01:17:54.358
Jack Patterson: >So it’s not relevant.

01:17:55.658 –> 01:17:57.558
Grace Chatto: So how did you do it?

01:17:57.558 –> 01:17:58.738
Grace Chatto: Would you just play it on a keyboard?

01:17:58.738 –> 01:17:59.978
Jack Patterson: >I think it was played on a keyboard.

01:17:59.978 –> 01:18:10.378
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, I actually remember that’s not, it’s a Mellotron flute, like a Mellotron sample library, but played with loads of pitch bend and with a bit of distortion on it.

01:18:10.378 –> 01:18:10.978
Jack Patterson: >And that’s what that’s.

01:18:15.898 –> 01:18:17.198
John Kennedy: But for the live show.

01:18:17.198 –> 01:18:17.778
Jack Patterson: >But for the live show.

01:18:17.778 –> 01:18:19.298
John Kennedy: You can play it on your ee-wee.

01:18:19.298 –> 01:18:22.418
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, but still with the ee-wee is just a midi controller.

01:18:22.418 –> 01:18:22.798
John Kennedy: Right.

01:18:22.798 –> 01:18:25.698
Jack Patterson: >So you can play any sound.

01:18:25.698 –> 01:18:28.518
Jack Patterson: >So we’ll still play that Mellotron.

01:18:28.518 –> 01:18:31.398
Grace Chatto: Yeah, you can play like bass lines on it.

01:18:31.398 –> 01:18:34.498
Grace Chatto: It’s got eight octaves that you can flip between on the back.

01:18:34.498 –> 01:18:39.198
Grace Chatto: So you can play like bass lines and then flip to playing like high solos like that.

01:18:39.838 –> 01:18:40.258
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:18:40.618 –> 01:18:44.858
Jack Patterson: >There’s a video we should link to of us playing a cover of Subtract.

01:18:44.858 –> 01:18:45.478
Grace Chatto: Wildfire.

01:18:45.478 –> 01:18:55.938
Jack Patterson: >Wildfire with Makeda, who you heard singing BVs on the Rather Be Demo in our little, our first studio in South Kilburn.

01:18:55.938 –> 01:18:57.098
Jack Patterson: >That’s there somewhere.

01:18:57.098 –> 01:18:58.178
Jack Patterson: >We should dig that out.

01:18:58.178 –> 01:19:02.238
Grace Chatto: Yeah, because you were playing bass and synths on there.

01:19:02.238 –> 01:19:02.858
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:19:02.858 –> 01:19:03.718
Grace Chatto: It’s quite cool.

01:19:03.718 –> 01:19:04.998
John Kennedy: Yeah, sounds amazing.

01:19:04.998 –> 01:19:05.938
Grace Chatto: Should have brought it.

01:19:05.938 –> 01:19:06.518
Jack Patterson: >Should have brought it.

01:19:08.698 –> 01:19:09.698
John Kennedy: Too many.

01:19:09.698 –> 01:19:12.298
John Kennedy: Yeah, people can link to the video and have a look at that.

01:19:12.298 –> 01:19:21.118
John Kennedy: But Jack and Grace, I’m not going to let you go just yet, because there’s a few Patreon questions we want to ask, and also we’ve got our repeat questions that we ask everybody who comes on the podcast.

01:19:21.118 –> 01:19:22.418
John Kennedy: But the Patreon ones are really interesting.

01:19:22.418 –> 01:19:42.578
John Kennedy: So Matt got in touch to say, how do you maintain morale through disagreements during collaboration, which is really interesting, because this is something that I think there’s this amazing harmony within Clean Bandit, and you’ve kind of suggested off, Mike, that, oh yeah, there is voicing some doubts.

01:19:42.578 –> 01:19:43.538
John Kennedy: But it’s an interesting question.

01:19:43.538 –> 01:19:44.778
John Kennedy: How do you maintain morale?

01:19:44.778 –> 01:19:50.458
John Kennedy: I mean, and you collaborate between yourselves, you collaborate with other people, and that can be tricky.

01:19:50.458 –> 01:20:02.698
John Kennedy: I mean, it’s interesting what you were saying about going back to Julia Michaels and feeling slightly nervous about what she would think about what you had done to the song that you had originally started working on.

01:20:02.698 –> 01:20:21.578
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, it’s brought up something that we’ve kind of realized recently about what people expect from Clean Bandit when they do, when they come in for a collab, it might be going slightly off topic, but we did, we were working with Central Sea at the end of last year.

01:20:21.578 –> 01:20:32.238
Jack Patterson: >And we spent like a month in advance with another writer, producer, who we worked with closely, just making loads of drill, classical infused drill.

01:20:32.238 –> 01:20:33.198
John Kennedy: Wow.

01:20:33.198 –> 01:20:34.578
Jack Patterson: >Just really cool.

01:20:34.578 –> 01:20:45.818
Jack Patterson: >Some of the most exciting beats that we’ve done, really heavy kind of drill stuff, big classical samples, big, and we played him loads of it.

01:20:45.818 –> 01:20:48.918
Jack Patterson: >And he’s just like, nah, I don’t want to make drill.

01:20:48.918 –> 01:20:52.578
Jack Patterson: >And I was thinking, yeah, of course, of course he doesn’t want to make drill.

01:20:52.578 –> 01:21:03.518
Jack Patterson: >He’s got, you know, if he wants to make drill, Jenks will make his collaborator, who we know well and work with a lot, will make him all the drill he needs.

01:21:03.518 –> 01:21:06.778
Jack Patterson: >He’s coming here to do the music that we make.

01:21:06.778 –> 01:21:07.418
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:21:07.418 –> 01:21:15.658
Jack Patterson: >And that was, we were quite gutted because we’re huge fans of Sench and it didn’t kind of pan out that session.

01:21:15.658 –> 01:21:23.118
Jack Patterson: >He still cut, he like jumped on the only thing that we played him that had, that sounded vaguely like a song, you know, that had a pop hook.

01:21:23.118 –> 01:21:23.338
John Kennedy: Right.

01:21:23.858 –> 01:21:32.438
Jack Patterson: >Obviously now thinking about it, if we could have played him like a hundred pop songs and he might have jumped on any, maybe we should send him some more actually, but.

01:21:32.438 –> 01:21:33.838
Grace Chatto: Yeah, it’s not over yet.

01:21:34.878 –> 01:21:36.258
John Kennedy: It’s just the beginning.

01:21:37.558 –> 01:21:45.878
Grace Chatto: But as well that happened last week, we’ve been, last month we’ve been in Miami working on a Latin project that we’re doing.

01:21:45.878 –> 01:21:49.158
Grace Chatto: And I’m obsessed with Bachata.

01:21:49.158 –> 01:21:54.458
Grace Chatto: So we were trying to get in Bachata beats to every song that we were making.

01:21:54.458 –> 01:21:56.658
Jack Patterson: >And they were like, no, no, we don’t want to hear any Bachata.

01:21:56.658 –> 01:21:57.298
Jack Patterson: >What’s that?

01:21:57.298 –> 01:21:58.478
Jack Patterson: >Turn that off.

01:21:58.478 –> 01:22:00.578
Jack Patterson: >And various different artists were working with us.

01:22:00.578 –> 01:22:03.778
Jack Patterson: >They didn’t want to hear any kind of Latin sample.

01:22:03.778 –> 01:22:07.358
Jack Patterson: >They just wanted to do big global pop.

01:22:07.358 –> 01:22:11.378
Jack Patterson: >So we snuck it in later on.

01:22:11.378 –> 01:22:11.618
John Kennedy: Right.

01:22:13.438 –> 01:22:20.858
Grace Chatto: Because the, yeah, sneaking in bits later on worked, didn’t it, with the mix?

01:22:20.858 –> 01:22:26.518
Grace Chatto: Because we just love like unexpected sound worlds meeting.

01:22:26.518 –> 01:22:39.438
Grace Chatto: Yeah, so doing a lot of international collaborations this past year that are yet to come out has been, that’s been really perfect for us, like mixing weird sounds.

01:22:39.738 –> 01:22:47.898
Grace Chatto: But morale, internally, it’s never been, and we’ve always had a good sense of morale.

01:22:47.898 –> 01:22:49.578
Jack Patterson: >Well, we’re kind of, we’re like a family.

01:22:50.118 –> 01:22:57.238
Jack Patterson: >So, you know, our like friendship and our family relationships are more important than the band.

01:22:57.238 –> 01:23:16.298
Jack Patterson: >So, you know, it always feels like any, any kind of argument about a key change or BPM or vocalist is always, we can always work that out, you know, because our like friendships and family relationships are stronger than that.

01:23:16.298 –> 01:23:17.258
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:23:17.258 –> 01:23:34.378
Grace Chatto: I’d say the hardest thing has been like politics in terms of, because we have to, because we don’t sing and we have different guest vocalists on every song, bringing that together is like a complete nightmare.

01:23:34.578 –> 01:23:43.558
Grace Chatto: Like working with other artists, because everyone has their own touring schedule and it’s never just them, it’s their whole team.

01:23:43.558 –> 01:23:59.238
Grace Chatto: So even if we get on creatively really well with a singer, and we all want to do it and release a song, it has to get through a hundred other people for it to happen, and sometimes that can kill morale a bit.

01:23:59.658 –> 01:24:00.938
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:24:00.938 –> 01:24:07.918
John Kennedy: We always ask people about technology or equipment or an instrument, what can’t you live without?

01:24:09.118 –> 01:24:13.598
John Kennedy: What would you save if you know the burning building scenario?

01:24:13.598 –> 01:24:14.878
John Kennedy: So I haven’t expressed that very well.

01:24:14.878 –> 01:24:15.138
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:24:15.138 –> 01:24:17.198
John Kennedy: Any of that, but I think you get the gist.

01:24:17.198 –> 01:24:21.598
Jack Patterson: >I think this is so boring, but just Ableton, I don’t know.

01:24:22.838 –> 01:24:23.598
Jack Patterson: >Is that enough?

01:24:23.598 –> 01:24:29.698
John Kennedy: No, I think that’s a great program and it clearly is one that, I think it facilitates creativity for you.

01:24:29.698 –> 01:24:30.218
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:24:30.218 –> 01:24:31.738
John Kennedy: What about yourself, Grace?

01:24:31.738 –> 01:24:33.418
John Kennedy: I mean, is it going to be the cello?

01:24:33.418 –> 01:24:36.358
John Kennedy: You know, can you not leave the house without it?

01:24:38.118 –> 01:24:39.198
Grace Chatto: I don’t know.

01:24:39.198 –> 01:24:43.338
Grace Chatto: I’m not really a technological type person.

01:24:43.338 –> 01:24:44.518
Jack Patterson: >Grace is more of a Rick Rubin.

01:24:45.518 –> 01:24:46.078
John Kennedy: Right.

01:24:46.078 –> 01:24:47.558
John Kennedy: The Zen master.

01:24:47.558 –> 01:24:50.338
John Kennedy: But I mean, you’re all multi-instrumentalist though, really.

01:24:50.338 –> 01:24:52.298
John Kennedy: You all dabble in bits and pieces.

01:24:52.298 –> 01:24:55.258
John Kennedy: I mean, cello is your background, but no.

01:24:55.258 –> 01:24:57.118
Jack Patterson: >She’s slightly more skilled than Rick Rubin.

01:24:57.118 –> 01:25:00.158
Jack Patterson: >That was a massive understatement.

01:25:00.158 –> 01:25:02.618
Jack Patterson: >She’s like a virtuoso.

01:25:02.638 –> 01:25:09.858
Grace Chatto: I saw 24KGolden tweeted the other day, just because you don’t make beats, it doesn’t make you Rick Rubin.

01:25:12.878 –> 01:25:15.518
Grace Chatto: But yeah, I don’t like make beats.

01:25:15.518 –> 01:25:17.118
Grace Chatto: I just comment.

01:25:17.118 –> 01:25:18.438
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

01:25:18.438 –> 01:25:25.938
John Kennedy: In terms of creativity, is there a routine either of you have or a process that you adhere to that helps you work?

01:25:25.938 –> 01:25:34.738
John Kennedy: Because it sounds like you’re embracing tons of work opportunities all the time, exploring lots of different avenues, these collaborations, your own stuff.

01:25:34.738 –> 01:25:37.418
John Kennedy: How do you discipline yourself to do all that?

01:25:38.078 –> 01:25:39.958
Grace Chatto: We don’t have any routine.

01:25:39.978 –> 01:25:41.918
Grace Chatto: It’s completely chaotic.

01:25:44.218 –> 01:25:46.598
Grace Chatto: Chaos from start to finish.

01:25:46.598 –> 01:25:47.018
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:25:47.018 –> 01:25:49.978
Grace Chatto: I mean, you exercise a lot.

01:25:49.978 –> 01:25:50.838
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

01:25:50.838 –> 01:25:58.498
Grace Chatto: I have had periods of yoga, practicing that creates a routine a bit.

01:25:58.498 –> 01:26:04.818
Grace Chatto: But in terms of workflow, we just do whatever we’re asked to do.

01:26:05.658 –> 01:26:09.018
Grace Chatto: Or whatever comes, whatever arises.

01:26:09.018 –> 01:26:14.958
Jack Patterson: >I think we try and always go for any opportunity that comes.

01:26:14.958 –> 01:26:17.698
Jack Patterson: >That’s been the kind of ethic.

01:26:18.798 –> 01:26:20.558
Jack Patterson: >We were supposed to be on holiday.

01:26:20.558 –> 01:26:22.158
Jack Patterson: >We had the writing trip.

01:26:22.438 –> 01:26:24.258
Jack Patterson: >The Miami trip wasn’t supposed to be a writing trip.

01:26:24.258 –> 01:26:31.338
Jack Patterson: >It was supposed to be just us scoping out, doing some networking in Miami and getting a bit of sun.

01:26:31.338 –> 01:26:43.378
Jack Patterson: >But it turned into this month-long, intensive writing trip where we’ve ended up basically writing an album that various Latin labels are now trying to get.

01:26:43.378 –> 01:26:45.958
Jack Patterson: >Then we went to Jamaica to relax after doing that.

01:26:45.958 –> 01:26:47.818
Jack Patterson: >Then that turned into Jamaica.

01:26:47.818 –> 01:26:49.318
Grace Chatto: We wrote every day.

01:26:49.318 –> 01:26:51.358
Grace Chatto: We found an amazing studio.

01:26:51.358 –> 01:26:52.038
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:26:52.038 –> 01:26:54.598
Jack Patterson: >It’s been quite intense the last few months.

01:26:54.718 –> 01:26:57.158
Jack Patterson: >But yeah, I don’t know.

01:26:57.158 –> 01:27:02.698
Jack Patterson: >Just what did Bob Geldof say to you when we were deciding whether to do our record deal?

01:27:02.698 –> 01:27:02.858
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

01:27:02.858 –> 01:27:07.678
Grace Chatto: We bumped into Bob Geldof about 10 years ago.

01:27:07.678 –> 01:27:13.158
Grace Chatto: Must have been longer, 13, 14 years ago in this tiny bar in Spain.

01:27:13.158 –> 01:27:17.358
Grace Chatto: We were all the UK record labels were trying to sign us at that time.

01:27:18.298 –> 01:27:21.458
Grace Chatto: Jack was like, we shouldn’t sign to a label.

01:27:21.458 –> 01:27:22.898
Grace Chatto: I was like, what are you talking about?

01:27:23.918 –> 01:27:28.218
Grace Chatto: Because we couldn’t really afford to pay our rent or anything.

01:27:29.698 –> 01:27:36.718
Grace Chatto: Yeah, we bumped into Bob Geldof and he was just like, Grace, if anyone offers you money for music, take it.

01:27:39.038 –> 01:27:40.578
John Kennedy: Well, that’s quite straightforward advice.

01:27:40.578 –> 01:27:44.218
Grace Chatto: So I was like, Jack, we’re doing it.

01:27:44.218 –> 01:27:44.838
John Kennedy: I love that.

01:27:44.838 –> 01:27:47.718
John Kennedy: That links in nicely to the last question, which is advice.

01:27:47.718 –> 01:27:54.558
John Kennedy: Have you ever received any advice or have you learned some lessons along the way that you would want to pass on to somebody else?

01:27:54.558 –> 01:27:58.658
John Kennedy: Bob Geldof’s advice is to do in good stead, it seems.

01:27:58.658 –> 01:28:00.918
John Kennedy: Oh, now there’s some doubt about it.

01:28:00.918 –> 01:28:03.018
John Kennedy: Brilliant.

01:28:03.018 –> 01:28:03.778
Jack Patterson: >No, it has.

01:28:03.778 –> 01:28:04.778
Jack Patterson: >It has.

01:28:04.818 –> 01:28:05.958
John Kennedy: Or it did at the time.

01:28:05.958 –> 01:28:06.398
Jack Patterson: >It did.

01:28:06.398 –> 01:28:06.658
Jack Patterson: >Yeah.

01:28:06.658 –> 01:28:07.298
John Kennedy: Things have changed.

01:28:07.298 –> 01:28:07.938
Jack Patterson: >Things have changed.

01:28:07.938 –> 01:28:10.078
Jack Patterson: >It’s a very different landscape.

01:28:10.078 –> 01:28:13.718
Jack Patterson: >And yeah, gosh, we’ve been so lucky.

01:28:14.018 –> 01:28:20.238
Jack Patterson: >And I count, you know, I’m so grateful for everyone at our label, you know, every opportunity we had.

01:28:20.238 –> 01:28:22.438
Jack Patterson: >It’s been an amazing ride with those guys.

01:28:22.438 –> 01:28:29.338
Jack Patterson: >And, but it’s kind of the advice I’d give now.

01:28:29.338 –> 01:28:54.438
Jack Patterson: >I think the music industry is very hard to ignore the kind of what other people are doing and the pressures that these, that kind of, the way social media is designed to make you think about music and make you think about how you organize your life and what art is and what success is.

01:28:54.438 –> 01:29:02.638
Jack Patterson: >Like, I think it’s very hard now to kind of, it was very easy to let go of like your own kind of path.

01:29:02.638 –> 01:29:08.638
Jack Patterson: >But yeah, I would have huge amounts of self-doubt about the music we make.

01:29:09.018 –> 01:29:18.618
Jack Patterson: >And like, yeah, that Central Sea moment, remembering that was so useful in this last trip.

01:29:18.618 –> 01:29:23.638
Jack Patterson: >Just having the confidence, just remembering why people want to work with you.

01:29:25.338 –> 01:29:32.698
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, just kind of sounds so cliched and corny, but yeah, like just doing your thing.

01:29:32.698 –> 01:29:43.358
Grace Chatto: Yeah, which that made me think of the fact that when we made our first album and probably mainly second album as well, we didn’t listen to any music.

01:29:43.358 –> 01:29:44.978
Jack Patterson: >It was just what was filtering in.

01:29:44.978 –> 01:29:45.958
Grace Chatto: Yeah.

01:29:45.958 –> 01:29:47.798
Jack Patterson: >It’s just so noisy now.

01:29:47.798 –> 01:29:58.718
Jack Patterson: >I don’t know how our kids, I feel so sad about the current state of the technological impact on children and young people.

01:29:58.718 –> 01:30:01.838
Jack Patterson: >It’s just pretty bleak, but yeah, just try and…

01:30:02.938 –> 01:30:06.038
Grace Chatto: Find your path and stick to it.

01:30:09.418 –> 01:30:10.798
John Kennedy: I think it’s good advice.

01:30:10.798 –> 01:30:12.098
John Kennedy: Find your path and stick to it.

01:30:12.098 –> 01:30:13.918
John Kennedy: That’s clearly what Clean Bandit have done.

01:30:13.918 –> 01:30:15.058
John Kennedy: I mean, that’s an interesting thing.

01:30:15.058 –> 01:30:23.898
John Kennedy: I mean, it seemed to me that you start out or started out and you were completely open-minded anyway, and you’ve maintained that open mind all the way.

01:30:23.898 –> 01:30:30.778
John Kennedy: Because if it started as a collective, you’re working with lots of different kinds of people, and you continue to work with lots of different kinds of people.

01:30:30.878 –> 01:30:41.678
John Kennedy: There’s a core unit that combines with all these different people from across the globe, but they’re now coming to you because they want to tap into what Clean Bandit do.

01:30:41.678 –> 01:30:53.598
John Kennedy: It’s interesting that that has been a passport, as it were, to take you to work with people in Miami and Jamaica, almost spontaneously because it’s like, oh, they’re here, let’s go and talk to them.

01:30:53.598 –> 01:30:57.578
John Kennedy: We want a piece of their action, as it were, which is interesting, isn’t it?

01:30:57.578 –> 01:30:59.398
John Kennedy: That’s partly because you’ve stuck to your path.

01:30:59.698 –> 01:31:02.178
John Kennedy: So, it’s worked.

01:31:02.178 –> 01:31:03.498
John Kennedy: It’s good advice.

01:31:04.678 –> 01:31:11.218
Jack Patterson: >Yeah, but I think we’ve been very lucky in that, in the group that we’ve had, because we haven’t been doing it on our own.

01:31:11.218 –> 01:31:13.298
Jack Patterson: >You know, that would be another piece of advice.

01:31:13.298 –> 01:31:18.538
Jack Patterson: >It’s like, build a team that you trust and work together.

01:31:18.538 –> 01:31:32.818
Jack Patterson: >And yeah, I think one of the main reasons we’ve had the success we’ve had is that we’re like a solid team, and we do kind of rely on one another, and we have our strengths and we’re always listening to each other.

01:31:32.818 –> 01:31:41.618
Jack Patterson: >So yeah, find people whose kind of musical opinions you trust and who are willing to help you out and stick by them.

01:31:41.618 –> 01:31:43.138
John Kennedy: Excellent, that is great advice.

01:31:43.138 –> 01:31:44.378
John Kennedy: It’s been so good to have you here.

01:31:44.378 –> 01:31:45.738
John Kennedy: Thanks so much for coming in.

01:31:45.738 –> 01:31:48.578
John Kennedy: Jack, Grace, it’s great to speak to you both.

01:31:48.578 –> 01:31:51.018
John Kennedy: But this isn’t the end of our conversation.

01:31:51.018 –> 01:31:55.338
John Kennedy: We are going to be talking again soon to find out about some of your newest recordings.

01:31:55.698 –> 01:31:59.298
John Kennedy: So there is a part 2 to our conversation with Clean Bandit on the way.

01:31:59.298 –> 01:32:03.158
John Kennedy: But for now, let’s round off with another Clean Bandit classic.

01:32:03.158 –> 01:32:04.598
John Kennedy: This is Symphony.

01:32:20.473 –> 01:32:25.813
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01:32:42.093 –> 01:32:50.793
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01:32:50.793 –> 01:32:52.333
John Kennedy: Once again, thank you for listening.

01:32:52.333 –> 01:32:53.673
John Kennedy: Until next time, goodbye.