Full Transcript:

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John Kennedy: Hello, welcome to Tape Notes.

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John Kennedy: I hope you’re well.

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John Kennedy: Thanks for joining us.

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John Kennedy: We have got a very exciting new episode for you this week.

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John Kennedy: Somebody who has been much requested by both listeners and artists that we’ve asked who they would like to hear on the podcast.

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John Kennedy: Finally, we have got Kieran Hebden, better known by many as Four Tet.

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John Kennedy: He is someone I’ve always wanted to do an episode with as well, as I’ve known him since his late teens.

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John Kennedy: And I’ve always been fascinated by the way he constantly changes his approach to music.

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John Kennedy: And he doesn’t do much press these days, hardly any interviews, which is explained in the podcast.

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John Kennedy: So we are very excited to get the opportunity to talk to Kieran at Strong Room a few weeks ago about his latest album, Three, and also dig into some of his work as KH.

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John Kennedy: We had loads of questions to put to Kieran from patrons, and he was very generous with his time and answered a lot of them.

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John Kennedy: The full video episode will be up on the Tape Notes Patreon page, and more highlight videos will be coming out on YouTube and Instagram throughout the week.

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John Kennedy: Thanks to all of you that support us on Patreon.

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John Kennedy: It’s been great to see how many of you have been enjoying the recent video episodes.

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John Kennedy: But now, without further ado, let’s get started.

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John Kennedy: Thank you Hello and welcome to Tape Notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

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John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

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John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tapenotes is Four Tet to talk about how he wrote, recorded, and produced the album Three, along with his other work.

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John Kennedy: Kieran Hebden, better known as Four Tet, is an electronic musician and producer from London.

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John Kennedy: Growing up in a household full of music, Kieran started out as a member of the post-rock band Fridge, which he formed with school friends.

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John Kennedy: Signing a record deal at just 15 years old, in 1997, Fridge released their first full-length album, Seafax.

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John Kennedy: While continuing to release music with the band, Kieran began to put more time into his solo work, and in 1999, released his debut album as Four Tet, Dialogue.

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John Kennedy: With a fusion of hip-hop drums and dissonant jazz samples at its core, Kieran’s innovative approach to production set a precedent for his future work, drawing on influences from krautrock, electronica, dance and folk, blending both organic and electronic sounds.

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John Kennedy: As well as the 12 studio albums released as Four Tet and numerous singles under his KH moniker, Kieran has consistently explored a variety of musical avenues, including numerous remixes for artists such as Radiohead, Bjork and Rihanna, and collaborations with the likes of Burial Steve Reed and Tom York.

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John Kennedy: More recently, his collaboration with Fred Again and Skrillex saw the release of the single Baby Again, with the trio performing multiple sold out shows around the world, from last minute sets in London to the headline slot at Coachella.

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John Kennedy: Kieran’s latest record, Three, arrived in March 2024 and sees him continue to embrace all sides of music making, with the album’s meditative excursions looking back as far as his post-drop days.

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John Kennedy: Today, I’m at Strongroom Studios in Shoreditch and I’m joined by Kieran.

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John Kennedy: And what better way to start our conversation than by hearing something from the record.

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John Kennedy: This is LOVED.

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John Kennedy: It is Loved by Four Tet from the album Three, and I’m very pleased to say that I am in the company of Kieran Hebden, who is Four Tet, here at one of the studios at Strong Room.

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John Kennedy: Hello, Kieran.

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Kieran Hebden: It’s great to see you, it’s been a while.

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John Kennedy: There was a point in our lives when we met frequently, well, not necessarily frequently, but regularly, from quite an early stage of your musical creativity, from the early days of Fridge, through to the solo years of Four Tet, and now you rarely do interviews, so we feel quite privileged, thank you.

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Kieran Hebden: Yeah, no, you were one of the first people to play me on the radio ever, I think, at the beginning of everything, stuff when you had like an evening XFM show, and yeah, it must be the first place I ever heard anybody play my music on the radio, I think you and Giles Peterson and stuff.

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John Kennedy: Wow, that’s amazing.

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Kieran Hebden: Actually, I actually had some like life-changing moments from it.

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Kieran Hebden: There was Arthur Baker heard Fridge for the first time on your show and got in contact, and I ended up going to my first ever time in a recording studio, like a proper one was at Rack Studios with him, and he brought Fridge in to like try and add some ideas to this record he was working on, and it was all because he’d heard it on the radio.

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John Kennedy: Wow, that’s amazing.

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John Kennedy: That’s great.

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John Kennedy: And here we are now.

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John Kennedy: I mean, I must say, you are one of the most requested artists we have on Take Notes.

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John Kennedy: Everybody, when they’ve been suggesting who should we get on the show, Four Tet came up time and time again.

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John Kennedy: So we’re very pleased to have you here.

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John Kennedy: So we’re here to talk about Three, the latest album.

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John Kennedy: And one thing I wanted to explore was your way of working, because I know that you have evolved and changed this over many years, to the extent that you started in a band, you’re in a three-piece band playing real instruments, and then you’ve worked with all sorts of people along the way.

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John Kennedy: What was the method for Three?

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Kieran Hebden: Well, like you’re saying, I’ve made so many albums.

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Kieran Hebden: And so sort of hitting a point where it was sort of thinking, why am I making albums anymore?

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Kieran Hebden: Like what else have I got to say with all of this?

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Kieran Hebden: Like I’ve a lot of my ideas, I’ve really explored quite a lot now, and I’ve done a lot of things.

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Kieran Hebden: And I suppose this record was a little more, instead of the idea being like, it’s really important I make a record, I sort of like pulled that away from myself.

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Kieran Hebden: And the idea was more like, I just want to make the music I need to make in my own time for myself really.

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Kieran Hebden: Like, and if I hit the point where I’ve got a bunch of stuff that would be good as an album, then I’ll start thinking about it.

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Kieran Hebden: So it was a very low pressure situation.

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Kieran Hebden: The album’s called Three because I spent three years making it actually.

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Kieran Hebden: And it’s supposed to just be the sort of like three years of my life documenting sort of what was going on in that time.

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Kieran Hebden: And during that time, I tried a whole sort of range of musical ideas.

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Kieran Hebden: And it’s not to all sort of like after a couple of years in, I’m sort of really thinking to myself like, maybe I’m getting close to having an album here.

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Kieran Hebden: Because I think instead of thinking to myself like, oh, I’ve got this like clear idea of a new sound I’m sort of going for and I wanna make an album that represents that.

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Kieran Hebden: It was more like I just make music as and when, and when I’ve got enough stuff that’s got a real sort of deep enough sort of personal meaning to me that I want to sort of collect it as an album.

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Kieran Hebden: I’ve said this before, but sometimes I look at the records a bit like a sort of diary or something.

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Kieran Hebden: It’s like this sort of just tells the story for me of what was going on during that period.

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Kieran Hebden: So this is longer than I think that I’ve ever spent making a record, but it’s this like three year chunk of my life.

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Kieran Hebden: That’s the basic sort of idea of it.

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John Kennedy: Yeah, because during that time you put out other stuff that doesn’t feature on the album and you have a lot of activity both as a DJ and putting on live shows as well.

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John Kennedy: So there’s a lot of different things going on.

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Kieran Hebden: Yeah, I’ve got things that like it’s quite, I feel quite liberated these days that I’ve got things to a point where a lot of the records I do have pretty much no connection sometimes with what’s going on with some of the performances I’m doing, the live music and the DJing and all those things.

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Kieran Hebden: So don’t really worry anymore about how those things connect particularly.

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Kieran Hebden: Let’s sort of look at things sort of project to project.

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Kieran Hebden: And you know, the album is a sort of isolated thing.

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Kieran Hebden: I think that I’m very lucky in the audience I’ve got can understand I’m going to put out an album of one sort of music.

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Kieran Hebden: And then I’m going to go and DJ somewhere and play something completely different.

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Kieran Hebden: And then a few weeks later, I’m going to collaborate with like William Tyler or something on an acoustic guitar record.

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Kieran Hebden: And I seem to be fortunate enough to be able to do that without people being totally and utterly confused all the time.

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Kieran Hebden: So I just sort of do my thing and let people sort of try and navigate it themselves.

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Kieran Hebden: And I kind of, I think I don’t feel a huge rush to explain everything.

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Kieran Hebden: I quite like that people have their own space and time with the music, work out what they, what it means to them, what they think about it and how they want to experience it and do their thing with it without me sort of like being in everybody’s faces all the time, being like, this is an album about this and this is a DJ set about this.

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Kieran Hebden: Like I just sort of do my thing, you know, and people take it in.

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Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

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John Kennedy: I mean, do you think that you actually had to work towards that?

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John Kennedy: I mean, I think maybe you did because that whole idea of freedom and control is something that you wrestled with, I guess, from the very beginning in a way, even from when you were first starting out in Fridge.

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Kieran Hebden: Yeah, like a long time ago, I could sort of see it as a goal of being like, I want to get in a position where if I announce a show somewhere or I’m going to do something, I can just be like, I’m going to come and do something.

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Kieran Hebden: There’s no expectation about maybe quite what it’s going to be.

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Kieran Hebden: I don’t even necessarily have to tell people, but they’re going to be like, all right, well, this is maybe going to be interesting.

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Kieran Hebden: Kieran’s doing it, he’s going to be thoughtful about it.

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Kieran Hebden: I wanted to be in that sort of space with what I’m doing where I can just not have that pressure that things have to be a sort of certain way and can be really flexible so that I can just pursue ideas and interests I have without worrying about it.

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Kieran Hebden: It means that week to week, I get to do these unbelievably crazy things that are totally different.

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Kieran Hebden: A few weeks ago, I played this festival EDC in America, which is the biggest EDM American dance music event, and it’s so far removed from loads of other things I’ve ever been involved.

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Kieran Hebden: Not something I ever imagined I’d get to play, I suppose.

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Kieran Hebden: It was just an incredible experience.

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Kieran Hebden: I did it once, I don’t know, I need to do it loads of times or anything like that.

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Kieran Hebden: But to be able to do that and then also to be able to be like, I’m going to play a Green Man festival this year, and there’s going to be going to follow a folk band or something.

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Kieran Hebden: And then to be like, I’m also going to work on a concert that has this big lighting installation or whatever, and the music is much more ambient.

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Kieran Hebden: And I just to get to that point, I’m so happy that I’m there and I can just keep things changing.

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Kieran Hebden: There’s no sort of repetition for me.

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Kieran Hebden: I can just make the music I want to make.

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Kieran Hebden: Like I was saying with this album, I took time with it because a lot of the music is quite mellow, and I was being involved with doing all this dance music.

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Kieran Hebden: And when you are doing a lot of DJing, you just sit down to make music and it’s very easy to, well, it’s not that it’s easy, it’s that you just naturally think like, oh, I want to make something that will work well when I’m next DJing.

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Kieran Hebden: It’s got this sort of addictive thing to it.

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Kieran Hebden: So you’ll start tracking it instantly, start with drums and things that are like going to work in a club set and stuff.

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Kieran Hebden: And you have to wean yourself off it a little bit sometimes.

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Kieran Hebden: If you to make it like we just listen to that song loved, it’s just not the type of thing I’m going to make after a weekend of clubs and stuff.

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Kieran Hebden: I have to get myself in another realm and headspace to be able to do that sort of thing these days.

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Kieran Hebden: Because I think I’m trying to do, when I make a song like that, I’m trying to do something that I find has got a simplicity and a sort of emotional touch to it that resonates and makes me want to hear the track again and again and be like, all right, this has the emotion that I’m trying to, that is powerful to me.

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Kieran Hebden: And it’s, I think when I was younger, I used to make so much music and I wouldn’t understand what had that and what didn’t.

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Kieran Hebden: And now I’m older, I sort of understand when I’m achieving it and not a bit more maybe.

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Kieran Hebden: You mentioned the fridge stuff and I always think to myself, like one of the great things about putting out lots of music when you’re really young is you capture this sort of naivety that you’re never going to get back.

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Kieran Hebden: And so the editing is really bad.

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Kieran Hebden: We’re just sort of putting it all out.

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Kieran Hebden: But the good bits I love because they’ve got this sort of naive charm that you can never, ever, ever get back.

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Kieran Hebden: And at this stage when I’m making music, it’s just, you’re so knowing about it that you overthink things sometimes and it’s hard to just get that sort of charming element that more sort of carefree thing coming along.

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Kieran Hebden: So I think I’m very aware of that.

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Kieran Hebden: So I’m trying to nurture the things that bring the more, I think charming is a good word, the more charming aspects.

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Kieran Hebden: Of it, you know, like, cause a song like Loved is so simple and it’s those simple things that are often my favorites that I do, but to get the ingredients just right.

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Kieran Hebden: So it’s just these like two or three elements that all combine in that moment where you’re just like, oh, this is all we need and it works.

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Kieran Hebden: You know, and so many of my favorite records are that, you know, just two or three things that are just perfect for each other.

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John Kennedy: We’re going to look at a couple of tracks from Three and also another track.

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John Kennedy: I think the first one we’re going to look at is Daydream Repeat, is that right?

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Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

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John Kennedy: Okay, maybe we could hear a blast of the master and then we can find out how you created it.

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John Kennedy: I’m glad that we got that transition in because that’s crucial to what happens in Daydream Repeat.

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John Kennedy: So that is Daydream Repeat by Four Tet from Three.

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John Kennedy: And in some ways, Kieran, that kind of combines a few of those different elements that you’re talking about.

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John Kennedy: Is that the meeting of worlds?

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John Kennedy: Because that could be played in a DJ set, surely?

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Kieran Hebden: Yeah, I picked this because it’s got everything going on.

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Kieran Hebden: Yeah, I wanted to have a couple of things that were more sort of clubby and would work with the DJ stuff I’m doing and everything on the album.

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Kieran Hebden: This was definitely, this was made towards the end of making the record.

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Kieran Hebden: And I was like, I want something that’s a bit more techno-y and sort of euphoric.

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Kieran Hebden: And I had that in mind.

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Kieran Hebden: And I was thinking, I was thinking about like Underworld and things like that where they do these tracks, they’ve got this like quite, this sort of pounding sort of tribal, just driving force going all the way through.

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Kieran Hebden: And then a really like pretty sort of melody or something is juxtaposing with it.

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Kieran Hebden: But one of the things that’s going on on the record is because it was made during that three-year period, part of that time was during the pandemic.

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Kieran Hebden: And one of the things that happened then was I had a lot of time on my hands to do a lot of things that had been mean to do for ages.

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Kieran Hebden: And one of those things was I went through my archive of old cassette tapes and that recordings and all these things that I’d done all over the years and digitized everything and found all this music I made when I was a teenager and things like that.

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Kieran Hebden: And I went through it all and found bits that were interesting.

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Kieran Hebden: And I ended up making a lot of sounds and samples and stuff from all those cassettes and things.

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Kieran Hebden: I used a lot of those sounds on the record.

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Kieran Hebden: And another thing that happened during making the record was I actually went back to a lot of techniques that I use when I first started making music.

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Kieran Hebden: So I bought a four track tape machine again.

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Kieran Hebden: I bought a couple of them actually.

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Kieran Hebden: And I was playing a lot of guitar and recording all sorts of stuff on these tape machines and reversing it, slowing it down.

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Kieran Hebden: Not really trying to do anything, seeing what it was like to just make music just on the tape machines.

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Kieran Hebden: I had this song called Water Synth come out a couple of years and that’s made just on a four track tape machine with nothing else.

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Kieran Hebden: And it was really, it was sort of refreshing to sort of work in that way again.

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Kieran Hebden: But most of the tracks on the album, I was sort of dipping into these sounds I’d created on this sort of old equipment and also the archive of tape sounds things.

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Kieran Hebden: So that wall of sort of guitar noise and everything you hear in this track is actually from a Fridge performance recorded at the Bulling Gate in Kentish town, like the early nineties, it must be like 95 or something like that.

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Kieran Hebden: And there’s a portion of the show where just doing sort of this wall of guitar noise.

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Kieran Hebden: I was so into this band, Medicine, at the time.

00:18:07.933 –> 00:18:15.253
Kieran Hebden: And I loved them and I like, really, I’d probably seen them around at the time, I was trying to make this sort of fierce of guitar noise that they did.

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Kieran Hebden: So I had the track, I had the idea.

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Kieran Hebden: I mean, I can play bits and pieces of it, show how it’s sort of coming together, sort of drum idea I wanted.

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Kieran Hebden: Quite a lot of the music on the record that I ended up choosing, the stuff I like most, I had a sort of conceived an idea for it in my head before I tried to make it.

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Kieran Hebden: I’ve sort of worked quite a lot like that these days.

00:18:34.613 –> 00:18:41.813
Kieran Hebden: I’ll be thinking like, oh, I’d love to do something that like does these few things and then try and make it and see what sort of comes out.

00:18:42.133 –> 00:18:45.593
Kieran Hebden: So saying I had that idea for a technology thing with a pretty sort of melodic element.

00:18:46.193 –> 00:18:49.193
Kieran Hebden: And then I was sort of like, I was still too polite.

00:18:49.213 –> 00:18:52.093
Kieran Hebden: And then I started adding all this sort of wall of guitar noise stuff on it.

00:18:52.653 –> 00:18:59.093
Kieran Hebden: And what happens is the guitar noise from the fridge.

00:18:59.113 –> 00:19:01.413
Kieran Hebden: So it comes in twice in there.

00:19:08.013 –> 00:19:09.353
Kieran Hebden: So this is it from the show.

00:19:09.693 –> 00:19:12.153
John Kennedy: So what kind of recording would this have been?

00:19:12.173 –> 00:19:15.133
John Kennedy: A cassette recording or a desk recording?

00:19:15.133 –> 00:19:16.473
Kieran Hebden: It’s a desk recording.

00:19:16.633 –> 00:19:21.593
Kieran Hebden: So at the Bullengate, you would play these pubs and cameras and stuff and they would sometimes give you a cassette tape afterwards.

00:19:22.033 –> 00:19:27.113
Kieran Hebden: It would be like four bands would play each night and you would give flyers out.

00:19:27.133 –> 00:19:32.173
Kieran Hebden: And the amount of flyers that came through the door representing your band, you got like a pound for each one or something.

00:19:32.193 –> 00:19:37.113
Kieran Hebden: So you get like 30 quid or something and a cassette tape of your show if you wanted it.

00:19:37.133 –> 00:19:38.653
Kieran Hebden: So it’s just like desk recording.

00:19:39.213 –> 00:19:39.713
John Kennedy: Amazing.

00:19:39.733 –> 00:19:42.353
John Kennedy: I mean, the Bull & Gate is a legendary venue.

00:19:42.913 –> 00:19:46.693
John Kennedy: That millions of bands, well not millions, but thousands of bands have played there.

00:19:46.713 –> 00:19:53.413
John Kennedy: But from all people, I remember seeing Cole play there as an example of the kind of band who would have been doing exactly what Fridge were doing.

00:19:54.313 –> 00:19:56.253
John Kennedy: Not musically, but just starting out.

00:19:56.313 –> 00:19:56.713
Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

00:19:57.193 –> 00:20:10.293
Kieran Hebden: And so the song starts with that sort of wall of guitar noise and then the wall of guitar noise comes in again at the second half of the track, but it’s reversed.

00:20:10.293 –> 00:20:19.373
Kieran Hebden: So the song leads you in to the beginning of the whole thing through this sort of wall of sound from the Bullengate going to this techno thing.

00:20:19.833 –> 00:20:22.373
Kieran Hebden: And then it goes, the track sort of plays out.

00:20:22.393 –> 00:20:30.153
Kieran Hebden: And then my idea was then we start from the end of the guitar noise going backwards and get pulled back out into the techno-y thing again.

00:20:30.173 –> 00:20:44.473
Kieran Hebden: And I think once I had that idea and I’m quite a nostalgic person, I absolutely loved that I had me as a teenager playing guitar on this track combined with things that were going on in my life now.

00:20:44.493 –> 00:20:50.893
Kieran Hebden: And I was sort of looking, I think I thought about that sort of a lot while I was making Three was like, this is my life.

00:20:51.753 –> 00:20:58.693
Kieran Hebden: Like it sounds a bit epic, but that’s where I was at because like I was saying earlier, I was like, why am I even making an album?

00:20:59.093 –> 00:21:06.233
Kieran Hebden: And so I was having these sort of thoughts of kind of like, I’m going to make an album that really sort of is about all the music I’ve already made.

00:21:06.253 –> 00:21:20.993
Kieran Hebden: So maybe it’s sort of like culmination of all the other records I’ve made, a lot of my ideas, going back to all these different techniques, just looking at all the things I’ve done and then combining that with being like, where am I at in my life now was the sort of thinking.

00:21:21.293 –> 00:21:27.173
Kieran Hebden: I’ve even had the thoughts while I was doing it, it’s like, maybe I’ll never make another record, another Four Tet album in this sort of style like this.

00:21:27.193 –> 00:21:43.773
Kieran Hebden: It’s just sort of, it feels very much like a sort of end of an era in some ways for me, because some of these ideas like pretty heart melodies and drum loops and bits of noise and all this stuff, I’ve done so much of it.

00:21:44.073 –> 00:21:46.953
Kieran Hebden: I’ve really explored these ideas loads and loads and loads.

00:21:46.973 –> 00:21:58.253
Kieran Hebden: I was like, I just want to do a few of them in like the most like interesting and elegant way I can and sort of say like a final sort of moment on these ideas for now, you know?

00:21:58.493 –> 00:22:23.893
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s funny because when I first heard Daydream Repeat, I did think, wow, this does seem to combine elements of Kieran’s life from different eras, because I mean, people might not realize, but say, you know, when Fridge began, I think it was lunchtime rehearsals at school and maybe a performance once a month or something at school in the sixth form, doing covers of say Smashing Pumpkins in Ramones, maybe.

00:22:24.253 –> 00:22:27.733
John Kennedy: And then that led to this experimental post-rock band.

00:22:28.213 –> 00:22:33.753
Kieran Hebden: Well, because we’d be doing stuff, we’d be doing those covers and things, but then so much was happening at the time.

00:22:33.773 –> 00:22:37.313
Kieran Hebden: We’d go and see Quick Space Super Sport or Tortoise or something like this.

00:22:37.333 –> 00:22:41.573
Kieran Hebden: And we’d come back and be like, hang on, what if we play the Smashing Pumpkins song for like 25 minutes?

00:22:41.793 –> 00:22:55.993
Kieran Hebden: You know, like, and what if half of it’s just sort of noise and all these things, you know, like, it’s so ramshackle, but I found these moments of sound within it, where I was like, this is actually everything I’m still trying to do is encapsulated in this little sound.

00:22:57.013 –> 00:23:02.073
Kieran Hebden: Like I heard that sort of guitar noise and I was like, why would I even bother trying to make new guitar noise?

00:23:02.093 –> 00:23:02.873
Kieran Hebden: I nailed it then.

00:23:04.573 –> 00:23:09.073
John Kennedy: And it also still has that question mark about it because it sounds like guitar noise, but is it guitar noise?

00:23:09.373 –> 00:23:11.773
John Kennedy: You can create that in so many different ways.

00:23:11.833 –> 00:23:12.233
Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

00:23:12.553 –> 00:23:15.413
Kieran Hebden: And I wanted the record to come out without explaining any of this.

00:23:15.473 –> 00:23:24.833
Kieran Hebden: Like, it’s why I’m only talking to you now after it’s been out a little bit, so people can listen to it without all this baggage attached to it, just have the experience of the music, take it in in their way.

00:23:25.513 –> 00:23:32.073
Kieran Hebden: And then I’m able to tell my part of it when somebody’s already established some connection to it for them.

00:23:32.453 –> 00:23:33.813
John Kennedy: And the harp, is it a harp?

00:23:33.833 –> 00:23:34.413
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, yeah.

00:23:34.433 –> 00:23:37.833
Kieran Hebden: So let me try and think about how I made this.

00:23:37.853 –> 00:23:40.733
Kieran Hebden: I probably started with a drum part.

00:23:40.753 –> 00:23:43.933
Kieran Hebden: So I’ve got this little bass line.

00:23:45.293 –> 00:23:46.853
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, I had like a bass part.

00:23:50.253 –> 00:24:04.933
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, trying to do something very sort of like quite simple techno-y sort of thing, which is quite unusual for me to do something that’s just so kind of like, you know, Burk Hine-ish or whatever, I suppose.

00:24:04.953 –> 00:24:20.733
Kieran Hebden: And then this drum part on it is, I have quite a few drum machines and I’m not somebody who has everything hooked up with MIDI and all this sort of stuff and like working on drum machines while making the track.

00:24:20.753 –> 00:24:28.733
Kieran Hebden: It’s easy to buy a drum machine and then maybe just play with it here and there and record a load of sounds and then just have loops and stuff of drum machine on my computer.

00:24:28.993 –> 00:24:32.353
Kieran Hebden: Don’t really use any hardware or any instruments when I’m writing music.

00:24:32.753 –> 00:24:36.573
Kieran Hebden: I’ll spend time with hardware and instruments to create samples, I suppose.

00:24:37.133 –> 00:24:42.653
Kieran Hebden: So I will have got this sort of fundamental ideas of a drum beat and a bass line going.

00:24:42.673 –> 00:24:51.713
Kieran Hebden: And then I’ve added, I found an old recording of a, it’s like a TR-8, Roland TR-8 and a drum brute, like two drum machines that have hooked together.

00:24:52.093 –> 00:24:53.653
Kieran Hebden: And I’ve got this beat going.

00:24:56.013 –> 00:25:02.493
Kieran Hebden: Which, when combining that with the other sounds I had, it just made it all more interesting and better.

00:25:05.833 –> 00:25:11.693
John Kennedy: So, and in terms of putting them together, you’re doing all that on your laptop or on a computer?

00:25:11.973 –> 00:25:13.193
Kieran Hebden: Everything’s done on this laptop.

00:25:13.213 –> 00:25:14.893
Kieran Hebden: The whole record was made on this laptop.

00:25:15.053 –> 00:25:21.153
John Kennedy: So, you’ve got this array of sounds that you can dip into and bring in for whatever you’re working on.

00:25:21.273 –> 00:25:21.513
Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

00:25:21.533 –> 00:25:25.273
Kieran Hebden: When I’m writing music, it’s always just me and the laptop, basically.

00:25:25.293 –> 00:25:31.453
Kieran Hebden: Very, very rarely that I’m sitting down with an instrument composed in that way.

00:25:31.473 –> 00:25:34.073
Kieran Hebden: It’s like writing on the laptop is my thing.

00:25:34.653 –> 00:25:42.653
Kieran Hebden: And most likely in unorthodox places, it’s very likely that I came up, I can’t remember on this one, but I was probably lying in bed.

00:25:43.353 –> 00:25:47.173
Kieran Hebden: That’s a very common thing is lying bed, just listening on the laptop speakers.

00:25:47.573 –> 00:25:55.053
Kieran Hebden: I would say 90% of the listening and mixing and everything for this album, all the music I make these days is just the laptop speakers.

00:25:55.413 –> 00:25:59.973
Kieran Hebden: Like I’ll put the monitors on and stuff like that to sort out the mixing and things like that.

00:25:59.993 –> 00:26:04.493
Kieran Hebden: But generally I’m just on the laptop speakers lying around the house or on the table.

00:26:04.513 –> 00:26:08.793
Kieran Hebden: And the combination of that and headphones while I’m traveling, I love making music on the train.

00:26:08.813 –> 00:26:20.033
Kieran Hebden: It’s probably one of my favorite places, but also planes and things just like be at my mom’s house or whatever and have a couple of hours and do all the best bits happening.

00:26:20.813 –> 00:26:26.033
Kieran Hebden: I just try and get the ideas right before, and the mixing happens as it goes on.

00:26:26.313 –> 00:26:29.133
Kieran Hebden: The crucial thing is getting the idea together, which might be a day or so.

00:26:29.153 –> 00:26:34.493
Kieran Hebden: And then there might be six months of like tweaking the mix endlessly to get it right.

00:26:34.513 –> 00:26:42.133
Kieran Hebden: And like the mix on, I had the idea for this, but then it was months that I would keep playing it out in clubs and things like that and be like, oh, it’s just not quite right.

00:26:42.153 –> 00:26:43.393
Kieran Hebden: There’s something wrong with the mix.

00:26:43.413 –> 00:26:48.653
Kieran Hebden: Like endless problems with kick drums and the bass rumble and the combination of those two things.

00:26:49.113 –> 00:26:51.593
Kieran Hebden: So like, there’s sort of two halves to it.

00:26:51.613 –> 00:26:56.333
Kieran Hebden: There’s a part that’s just the really creative part where not too brushed about the sound and stuff.

00:26:56.613 –> 00:27:03.013
Kieran Hebden: And then there’s a very technical part of it all where I’m like really working on getting the sound exactly where I want it, you know, so it works well.

00:27:03.033 –> 00:27:05.733
Kieran Hebden: And I’m sort of spend a long time on those things sometimes.

00:27:06.233 –> 00:27:08.053
John Kennedy: Do you use a particular headphone?

00:27:08.073 –> 00:27:09.613
John Kennedy: I mean, do you favor a particular-

00:27:09.633 –> 00:27:14.413
Kieran Hebden: My favorite headphone for mixing is the Audio Technica, the really classic one.

00:27:14.473 –> 00:27:17.593
Kieran Hebden: I can’t even remember the name, it’s something A50 or something like that.

00:27:18.193 –> 00:27:21.113
Kieran Hebden: That’s my favorite one for I understand what’s going on with the sound.

00:27:21.413 –> 00:27:29.173
Kieran Hebden: When I’m traveling around, I just have my DJ headphones with the HD25s with me, which they’re not very, I shouldn’t be mixing on those.

00:27:29.193 –> 00:27:31.833
Kieran Hebden: It’s not, they’re not very good, but I can hear what’s going on.

00:27:31.853 –> 00:27:33.033
Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

00:27:33.093 –> 00:27:33.793
Kieran Hebden: And what’s happening.

00:27:35.013 –> 00:27:38.013
Kieran Hebden: So I had those like drum parts together and the harp.

00:27:41.073 –> 00:27:47.773
Kieran Hebden: So the harp’s done with Kontakt, which has got all these like orchestral sounds.

00:27:48.673 –> 00:27:56.293
Kieran Hebden: And so you just select the harp on there and all these sort of melodic parts, like I’m not, I don’t play them in with a keyboard or anything.

00:27:56.313 –> 00:28:00.533
Kieran Hebden: I just use the piano roll and I just draw everything in.

00:28:00.893 –> 00:28:06.913
Kieran Hebden: So to do this, I will have like tried a combination of notes and got a pattern.

00:28:07.053 –> 00:28:17.433
Kieran Hebden: And then until I’m just moving the notes around, until I find something that’s like got a good enough sort of melodic hook to it, or has got the notes, like I’m not musically trained.

00:28:17.453 –> 00:28:24.313
Kieran Hebden: So sometimes I can hear it in my head, but I’m like moving the notes around and around till it suddenly like clicks with what I’m looking for.

00:28:24.333 –> 00:28:40.353
Kieran Hebden: Like I love working with, like if I work with Fred on something and I can play him any record or mention a note or something, he’s able to just play it straight away because he’s fully musically trained and a really good combination with the two of us, where I’m like, no, no, no, it needs this chord that does this bit or whatever.

00:28:40.373 –> 00:28:43.953
Kieran Hebden: And he knows what it’s actually called and how to get there.

00:28:43.973 –> 00:28:51.253
Kieran Hebden: So I’m lacking that, but it means that the good side of that is like, I have all this sort of happy accidents of trying sort of unconventional things.

00:28:51.733 –> 00:28:58.633
Kieran Hebden: So I’ll have just like messed around till I had a heart, a heart pattern that I really, that I liked.

00:29:01.733 –> 00:29:04.313
John Kennedy: And were you seeking out that sound to start with?

00:29:04.433 –> 00:29:06.333
John Kennedy: Was it always going to be that kind of a sound?

00:29:06.553 –> 00:29:09.993
Kieran Hebden: I was like, harp is such, I love the sound of harp and it always works for me.

00:29:10.013 –> 00:29:17.853
Kieran Hebden: And I often start with a harp and be like, this is so bog standard, Kieran, but like, let me give a harp a go and see how that fits.

00:29:17.873 –> 00:29:20.713
Kieran Hebden: Like I can never sort of get enough, enough.

00:29:21.153 –> 00:29:25.493
Kieran Hebden: The combination of the harp with like quite tough drums is something I really, really, really like.

00:29:27.733 –> 00:29:40.313
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, so I had the harp thing and then I did this trick that I pretty much do on everything always, which is get some sort of midi pattern together and then put some sort of randomization on the velocity of the midi notes.

00:29:40.953 –> 00:29:46.473
Kieran Hebden: So I’ve put the velocity and I’ve made it random 15% or whatever.

00:29:46.493 –> 00:29:54.253
Kieran Hebden: So it’s just every time the harp note hits, it’s playing it a little harder, a little softer, and then that makes it a little more humanized.

00:29:55.033 –> 00:30:03.193
Kieran Hebden: And then I’m asking it also to 15% of the time to pick one of the notes and play either an octave up or an octave below.

00:30:03.213 –> 00:30:07.093
Kieran Hebden: And it stops the pattern being totally repetitive.

00:30:07.113 –> 00:30:09.333
Kieran Hebden: You just get these little sparkles and twinkles and things.

00:30:09.993 –> 00:30:14.013
Kieran Hebden: However, every time I play back this track, it’s different because of the randomization.

00:30:14.513 –> 00:30:23.133
Kieran Hebden: So if you listen to the version on the vinyl of the album, it will be different probably to the version on that’s digitally available and things like that.

00:30:23.153 –> 00:30:26.693
Kieran Hebden: Because every time I render it, the version I DJ is probably different.

00:30:26.953 –> 00:30:30.513
Kieran Hebden: But different just in the way the little twinkles and stuff happen at different times.

00:30:30.533 –> 00:30:31.913
Kieran Hebden: So I quite like that.

00:30:31.933 –> 00:30:37.593
Kieran Hebden: I like having this element of randomization on synth parts and things like that.

00:30:38.133 –> 00:30:39.893
Kieran Hebden: And then that’s the track basically.

00:30:39.893 –> 00:30:43.853
Kieran Hebden: It’s this like drum idea with the harp and the guitar noise.

00:30:44.813 –> 00:30:46.553
Kieran Hebden: I was like, all right, that’s my idea.

00:30:46.573 –> 00:30:48.313
Kieran Hebden: And then it’s just about arrangement.

00:30:48.373 –> 00:30:51.853
Kieran Hebden: I kind of think arrangement is just everything.

00:30:51.933 –> 00:30:55.893
Kieran Hebden: Like people ask me all the time about like, oh, how do you make your music?

00:30:55.913 –> 00:30:58.193
Kieran Hebden: And how’s the, how do you get this sound?

00:30:58.213 –> 00:30:59.173
Kieran Hebden: And how do you do this and that?

00:30:59.193 –> 00:31:00.133
Kieran Hebden: And how do you do all the thing?

00:31:00.153 –> 00:31:07.933
Kieran Hebden: And I’m sort of being like, well, yeah, there are ideas about getting nice sounds together, but none of it really matters in comparison to the arrangement.

00:31:07.953 –> 00:31:13.933
Kieran Hebden: Like the arrangement is the whole thing that’s going to make it work, make it an experience for anybody.

00:31:13.953 –> 00:31:17.553
Kieran Hebden: Like there’s no point in having a good sound if it’s not arranged into anything.

00:31:18.033 –> 00:31:28.213
Kieran Hebden: And if the track doesn’t have some sort of proper sort of arc to it or whatever, then it’s not really going to be a sort of great experience and all these things.

00:31:28.233 –> 00:31:36.493
Kieran Hebden: And the music that people love most, it’s often so much recorded really poorly or has things that you would think, oh, this isn’t appropriate at all.

00:31:37.033 –> 00:31:40.533
Kieran Hebden: But the arrangement is so brilliant that everybody’s engaged.

00:31:40.693 –> 00:31:43.453
Kieran Hebden: Like every part of it is emotional.

00:31:43.473 –> 00:31:44.233
Kieran Hebden: It’s part of it.

00:31:44.253 –> 00:31:44.873
Kieran Hebden: It’s a journey.

00:31:44.893 –> 00:31:49.193
Kieran Hebden: It’s very, it’s just touches you, like it gets straight to you.

00:31:49.213 –> 00:31:54.773
Kieran Hebden: So the arrangement aspect of all these things is, that’s the real important thing.

00:31:54.793 –> 00:31:59.893
Kieran Hebden: Like to have that idea of like, oh, I wanna have like a techno sort of beat, a harp and this guitar noise.

00:32:00.553 –> 00:32:05.813
Kieran Hebden: You’re choosing three things that don’t necessarily go together, trying to push them together.

00:32:05.833 –> 00:32:22.573
Kieran Hebden: And that’s the point where I’m really, really happy when I’m listening to it being like, oh wow, it starts with a noise and then it’s to fold out into this other thing and the harp comes in and then every, each sound that I’ve chosen gets to sort of flourish and sort of trying to make that happen.

00:32:22.793 –> 00:32:25.333
John Kennedy: Yeah, and how do you get to that point?

00:32:25.353 –> 00:32:28.953
John Kennedy: Because it’s interesting, you said that you tried it out live.

00:32:28.973 –> 00:32:32.153
John Kennedy: You tried it in different environments to see what was happening with it.

00:32:32.393 –> 00:32:36.193
John Kennedy: And then the track is six minutes, nine seconds long.

00:32:36.533 –> 00:32:37.253
Kieran Hebden: I didn’t change that.

00:32:37.273 –> 00:32:39.053
Kieran Hebden: The arrangement I nailed quite early.

00:32:39.073 –> 00:32:40.753
Kieran Hebden: I’m sort of happy with the arrangement quite early on.

00:32:40.933 –> 00:32:46.693
Kieran Hebden: The stuff I’m saying I’m changing all the time when I’m playing out is the mix, the balance of things.

00:32:47.393 –> 00:32:51.033
Kieran Hebden: There’s this bit up here where, so you can see where I’ve got into a mess.

00:32:51.333 –> 00:32:53.373
Kieran Hebden: There’s three, I’ve got a kick drum.

00:32:55.513 –> 00:33:03.013
Kieran Hebden: And then there’ll have been some sort of problem with it where I’ve now added another channel of, yeah, it won’t have had enough weight.

00:33:03.033 –> 00:33:11.713
Kieran Hebden: So I’ve added a very, very small bit of just pure sine wave sub bass underneath the kick that’s almost inaudible.

00:33:11.793 –> 00:33:18.513
Kieran Hebden: Like you can’t hear it on headphones or whatever, but if you’re in a big club or something, it just gives the weight just below what’s going on.

00:33:19.493 –> 00:33:22.793
Kieran Hebden: And then I’ve had another problem with the kick where it’s not sort of cutting through.

00:33:22.813 –> 00:33:27.053
Kieran Hebden: So I’ve just added this very little click to the kick drum as well.

00:33:27.493 –> 00:33:36.673
Kieran Hebden: And it’s the combination of all three sounds is sort of like getting the effect that I want when I’m hearing it out.

00:33:36.693 –> 00:33:42.993
Kieran Hebden: But I wouldn’t have really understood what I need to do with that sub or adding the click or whatever with…

00:33:43.473 –> 00:33:45.473
Kieran Hebden: I don’t necessarily see those problems straight away.

00:33:45.493 –> 00:33:46.953
Kieran Hebden: It’s like further down the line.

00:33:47.253 –> 00:33:49.853
Kieran Hebden: And this isn’t stuff I was good at when I was starting out.

00:33:49.873 –> 00:34:02.533
Kieran Hebden: It’s stuff I’ve sort of learned over time of being like, hang on, let’s really get this styled in so that like it really sounds good and moderns something when you’re, when you do hear it on a big sound system or something, something like that.

00:34:02.553 –> 00:34:05.933
Kieran Hebden: So a little, I think there’s a fourth track of kick drum.

00:34:07.173 –> 00:34:11.573
John Kennedy: But it is interesting to think that you’ve already sorted out your arrangement before then.

00:34:11.873 –> 00:34:18.173
John Kennedy: So before you would ever road test it, as it were, you’ve gone through what you want this song to be like.

00:34:18.193 –> 00:34:22.413
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, because the arrangement, is that the sounds and the arrangement are the first thing that are happening.

00:34:22.673 –> 00:34:24.233
Kieran Hebden: Those are sort of happening straight away.

00:34:24.253 –> 00:34:31.093
Kieran Hebden: I’m like not even worrying too much about the sound until I know I’ve got some sort of good arrangement and idea in place.

00:34:31.113 –> 00:34:34.393
Kieran Hebden: Like that’s the writing the song bit, I suppose, for me.

00:34:34.393 –> 00:34:42.793
Kieran Hebden: And this is sort of trying to get something like the kick drum, right, is a thing that will like annoy me for like months and months and months.

00:34:42.813 –> 00:34:52.373
Kieran Hebden: Like every time I play it, I’ll be like, oh, it sounds a little weedy after this other song or it wasn’t sort of like cutting through or, you know, and then I’ll be checking things like the phase or whatever.

00:34:52.393 –> 00:34:56.313
Kieran Hebden: Like is the bass and the kick drum getting in the way of each other?

00:34:56.373 –> 00:35:02.993
Kieran Hebden: And I also, I wanna do all this stuff, but I like my stuff to sound quite sort of rugged and messy as well in places.

00:35:02.993 –> 00:35:11.373
Kieran Hebden: So sometimes I’m doing things, but also trying to make sort of sure it still sounds like me, you know, not too polished and not too clean.

00:35:11.393 –> 00:35:22.533
Kieran Hebden: So I’m sort of go against some of the things that are kind of right sometimes, or I’m adding hiss or I’m putting things out of time off the grid and stuff like that.

00:35:22.553 –> 00:35:23.613
Kieran Hebden: I think I’ve got this one.

00:35:25.453 –> 00:35:29.353
Kieran Hebden: This thing that’s just called, it’s called 40 Tape Technodrums.

00:35:29.373 –> 00:35:42.893
Kieran Hebden: This is from one of these teenage tapes of mine, like just a little loop of sound, you know, and it’s a sort of messy sound like this, then combined with the kicks and the other drum sounds.

00:35:46.573 –> 00:35:51.233
Kieran Hebden: Like I have an idea like this, but I’ll spend a while being like, is the groove on it quite right?

00:35:51.253 –> 00:35:57.333
Kieran Hebden: Is everything gonna sit together in a like elegant way where they’re all sort of complimenting each other?

00:35:58.033 –> 00:36:04.173
Kieran Hebden: These are the little technical things that I’m looking at, like the timing on every little aspect, like hi-hats or something.

00:36:06.813 –> 00:36:24.593
Kieran Hebden: There’s this bit where the drums are and the bass is going and then, and this other shuffly hi-hat comes in and like I’ll spend quite a lot of time, like I might play it out and then be like, oh, the shuffle when those drums come in is like, I really want the music to be sexy.

00:36:24.733 –> 00:36:25.913
Kieran Hebden: Like I think about that a lot.

00:36:25.933 –> 00:36:36.153
Kieran Hebden: It’s like when these little elements come in, I want that feeling where everybody’s in, especially if I’m thinking about being in a club where it’s just got this sort of sexiness to it, where it’s like, oh yeah, this is human.

00:36:36.173 –> 00:36:38.253
Kieran Hebden: Like people want to dance a little bit more and stuff.

00:36:38.273 –> 00:36:46.073
Kieran Hebden: Like I think about that sort of stuff so much to know that it’s sort of connecting in that way.

00:36:46.093 –> 00:36:58.273
Kieran Hebden: And something like the shuffle on a hi-hat when it comes in is that the nuances on those things that I’m spending time adjusting, but it’s already set in the arrangement when that’s going to come in or how it’s going to happen.

00:36:58.773 –> 00:37:03.413
Kieran Hebden: It’s more just like making sure the feel of it is exactly as I’m intending, that it might take longer.

00:37:03.693 –> 00:37:04.593
John Kennedy: Yeah, that’s interesting.

00:37:04.613 –> 00:37:18.333
John Kennedy: And it’s interesting making instrumental music as well in terms of arrangement, because when you write a song, so much can be shaped by the voice and the lyric and how you enhance the impact of those various different things.

00:37:18.353 –> 00:37:25.813
John Kennedy: But when you’re thinking in terms of an arrangement for something like Daydream Repeat, what’s the goal that you’re trying to get across?

00:37:27.353 –> 00:37:31.033
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, because I’m not thinking of, yeah, like you say, there’s no lyrics or anything like that.

00:37:31.053 –> 00:37:40.753
Kieran Hebden: I think it’s that I sort of hear the, I’ll have something like the harp melody or whatever, and I have the melodic thing that I feel like, all right, this is powerful to me.

00:37:40.773 –> 00:37:50.513
Kieran Hebden: And I’m like, well, to make that, to communicate what I think is the moving, the interesting thing about this, I have to get the arrangement right to get that idea over.

00:37:51.373 –> 00:38:06.253
Kieran Hebden: And it’s like the lengths of sections or whatever, it’s like, when I’m talking about those elements with the drums and getting the feel right, it’s like, I know I need a certain amount of time for your body to sort of like really feel it in the right way or to establish the thing.

00:38:06.273 –> 00:38:08.073
Kieran Hebden: On this song, there are elements that fade in.

00:38:08.653 –> 00:38:14.813
Kieran Hebden: I use that as a device quite a lot to be like, all right, you’re in the sort of create a world of sound, like, oh, there’s all this noise happening around you.

00:38:14.833 –> 00:38:15.313
Kieran Hebden: What is this?

00:38:15.653 –> 00:38:19.093
Kieran Hebden: And then slowly bubbling up through that, you start feeling sort of pulse.

00:38:19.533 –> 00:38:24.333
Kieran Hebden: And it’s like, you realize you’re sort of locked into a groove without sort of understanding.

00:38:24.353 –> 00:38:26.793
Kieran Hebden: And then it’s all going quite sort of hard and it’s quite heady.

00:38:27.153 –> 00:38:31.233
Kieran Hebden: And then this really lush, beautiful sound comes at you.

00:38:31.633 –> 00:38:36.513
Kieran Hebden: And it’s those sorts of things I’m thinking about, like, how am I gonna introduce everything?

00:38:36.533 –> 00:38:38.113
Kieran Hebden: How long do things need to be there?

00:38:38.133 –> 00:38:42.153
Kieran Hebden: And like, once everything is there and you’re loving it, it’s like, all right, well, what’s gonna happen next?

00:38:42.173 –> 00:38:44.613
Kieran Hebden: You know, like, does it need something else to come in?

00:38:44.633 –> 00:38:46.313
Kieran Hebden: Or maybe it just needs something to go away.

00:38:47.093 –> 00:38:48.113
Kieran Hebden: And then everything come in.

00:38:48.133 –> 00:38:52.533
Kieran Hebden: Maybe it needs everything to drop out for a while and then crash in in a really sort of impactful way.

00:38:53.073 –> 00:39:00.993
Kieran Hebden: It’s all these things to like, to just take these elements and make you enjoy them as many times over as possible until you’ve exhausted it.

00:39:01.013 –> 00:39:02.013
Kieran Hebden: It’s kind of that.

00:39:02.973 –> 00:39:07.273
Kieran Hebden: And I think a lot about music that I love when I’m doing this.

00:39:07.293 –> 00:39:15.433
Kieran Hebden: I think like, I listen to so much music and I listen to a lot of instrumental music, you know, and I’ll listen to, think about a record, I don’t know, an oi or something.

00:39:15.513 –> 00:39:18.733
Kieran Hebden: I’m just like, just takes me on an absolute journey when I listen to it.

00:39:18.753 –> 00:39:24.293
Kieran Hebden: And I’m like, so glad it’s the sort of length it is, like the structure of it, the way it all builds and everything’s.

00:39:25.773 –> 00:39:31.053
Kieran Hebden: I think my take on understanding how to do those things is probably why I’m even sitting here.

00:39:31.073 –> 00:39:36.673
Kieran Hebden: That’s why I’m allowed to like put out records is that I somehow understand how to do that bit of it.

00:39:37.213 –> 00:39:42.073
Kieran Hebden: And I think I learned so much about doing that from listening, from listening.

00:39:42.113 –> 00:39:54.413
Kieran Hebden: I think that’s the thing like is to listen so much because arranging and understanding how to make a six-minute track that’s just harp and guitar noise and drums, it seems obvious to me.

00:39:54.433 –> 00:39:57.333
Kieran Hebden: But when I really think about it, no, no, actually that’s not obvious.

00:39:57.353 –> 00:39:58.413
Kieran Hebden: That must be the thing I’m good at.

00:39:58.513 –> 00:40:01.293
John Kennedy: Oh, like, yeah, that’s really interesting.

00:40:01.433 –> 00:40:03.653
John Kennedy: And maybe could we hear a bit more of the track?

00:40:03.673 –> 00:40:11.473
John Kennedy: Maybe that bit where the noise drops off, the harp comes in and then the noise returns near the end of the arrangement.

00:40:11.493 –> 00:40:13.173
John Kennedy: And this is the reverse noise.

00:40:13.193 –> 00:40:14.453
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, the reverse noise.

00:40:14.473 –> 00:40:18.073
Kieran Hebden: So yeah, it’s all been playing and then we like, I bring it back.

00:40:25.504 –> 00:40:37.924
Kieran Hebden: There are bits and pieces of sound moving into reverbs and echo and all these things, because once I’ve established this world, I can then pull use of the sounds in and out of unexpected places, here and there.

00:40:37.944 –> 00:40:42.104
Kieran Hebden: And then this is the bit where the guitar’s suddenly coming back into the whole thing.

00:40:48.042 –> 00:40:52.382
John Kennedy: Maybe we could hear some of these elements soloed to illustrate them.

00:40:52.402 –> 00:40:55.202
John Kennedy: I mean, that reverse noise, that sounds like noise to me.

00:40:55.982 –> 00:41:00.722
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, so here’s the guitar part, and it’s just got the thing that I made on the drum machine.

00:41:00.742 –> 00:41:02.782
Kieran Hebden: Like, I’ve got it down to just those two sounds.

00:41:08.022 –> 00:41:12.642
Kieran Hebden: At this point, it’s like a sort of moment of tension where you’re sort of back in the guitar noise.

00:41:14.242 –> 00:41:16.422
Kieran Hebden: And then my idea was it would just drop to the beat.

00:41:20.262 –> 00:41:24.242
Kieran Hebden: So it all sort of like comes down, trying to pull the sexiness back in.

00:41:24.242 –> 00:41:33.022
Kieran Hebden: It’s that juxtaposition of like, all right, here we’ve got this really intense thing going on, and sort of pushing people with it as far as they might want to go.

00:41:33.562 –> 00:41:42.882
Kieran Hebden: Because if you hear this at a festival or in a club or anything, it’s those moments that are just like, whoa, it feels really, really exciting when it suddenly switches.

00:41:54.323 –> 00:41:56.083
Kieran Hebden: I think the harp was so pretty to me.

00:41:56.103 –> 00:42:02.423
Kieran Hebden: I was like, I wonder how long I can get away with just rolling the harp out and bringing it back and again and again.

00:42:02.443 –> 00:42:07.223
Kieran Hebden: I was like, oh, I never get tired of it just being like, oh, so what’s gonna happen?

00:42:07.223 –> 00:42:08.823
Kieran Hebden: Oh, the harp’s just gonna come in again.

00:42:08.903 –> 00:42:10.443
Kieran Hebden: And I was like, but that’s kind of great.

00:42:10.463 –> 00:42:24.823
John Kennedy: Well, I always think that must be one of the hardest things because you get so lost in a sound and so transfixed by it that to make those decisions about, oh, right, I’m gonna have to stop this now, can be difficult.

00:42:38.668 –> 00:42:47.748
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, and then I let it end just on the drum part on its own, just sort of like gently sort of like play out, so that you’re not suddenly shocked at losing the groove completely.

00:42:47.768 –> 00:42:52.848
Kieran Hebden: You had time to be like, all right, the harp things, this is, you feel like it’s concluding at this point.

00:42:57.748 –> 00:43:00.948
Kieran Hebden: I like to have sort of like ending that you’re sort of prepared for.

00:43:00.968 –> 00:43:08.888
Kieran Hebden: If I’m gonna put a real sudden unexpected ending, ending in, I have to be like, all right, this is, I really wanna mess with people like that.

00:43:08.908 –> 00:43:09.068
Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

00:43:09.088 –> 00:43:10.148
Kieran Hebden: It’s quite a consider thing.

00:43:10.188 –> 00:43:11.448
John Kennedy: Yeah, with real intent.

00:43:11.868 –> 00:43:13.588
John Kennedy: Fantastic, that was fascinating.

00:43:13.608 –> 00:43:18.668
John Kennedy: So that is Daydream Repeat, but we’re gonna take a quick break and we’ll be back with Skater in just a moment.

00:43:21.428 –> 00:43:26.668
John Kennedy: This episode is supported by Museversal, an amazing new service for working with session musicians remotely.

00:43:26.928 –> 00:43:32.268
John Kennedy: If you use session musicians or would like to, but it’s been too expensive or hard to organise, this is for you.

00:43:32.328 –> 00:43:38.368
John Kennedy: And we have a special offer for any Tapenotes listeners, 25% off for the first three months and you get to skip the wait list.

00:43:38.568 –> 00:43:40.068
John Kennedy: But more on that in a moment.

00:43:40.448 –> 00:43:43.188
John Kennedy: I’ve got David from Museversal here to tell us all about it.

00:43:43.388 –> 00:43:45.428
John Kennedy: Hello, David, what is Museversal?

00:43:45.688 –> 00:43:47.548
David: Hey John, thank you so much for having us on here.

00:43:47.608 –> 00:43:48.648
David: Appreciate it a ton.

00:43:48.968 –> 00:43:59.748
David: Museversal is an online remote recording studio for artists, producers, composers, anyone who’s a music creator to work with session musicians remotely.

00:44:00.068 –> 00:44:08.528
David: In a couple of clicks, you can go on and you can book a session with a drummer or a guitar player, a piano player, you name it, they’re on the platform.

00:44:09.208 –> 00:44:12.928
David: And so the way that it works is all of the sessions are hosted over live stream.

00:44:13.268 –> 00:44:24.048
David: So all of the revisions and feedback and all of the different little, hey, would you mind moving to the ride symbol for the fourth bar?

00:44:24.048 –> 00:44:27.648
David: Or would you mind finger plucking instead of using a pick?

00:44:27.668 –> 00:44:33.668
David: All of those types of creative choices can happen quite literally as if the musician is in the room just done over live stream, yeah.

00:44:34.148 –> 00:44:35.008
John Kennedy: It sounds amazing.

00:44:35.108 –> 00:44:36.848
John Kennedy: And in a way, the clue is in the name.

00:44:36.868 –> 00:44:46.808
John Kennedy: Museversal, it means that whether you’re a beginner or whether you’re somebody with a lot of experience, you can still get access to the same kind of level of musicianship and creativity.

00:44:47.028 –> 00:45:04.488
David: Yeah, it’s amazing because it allows the music to have expression on it and musicianship that if I’m sitting in my basement playing piano versus a piano player that’s played for Jay-Z or has been playing for 25 plus years, the material that comes out of that is gonna sound night and day.

00:45:04.688 –> 00:45:05.508
John Kennedy: What does it cost?

00:45:05.768 –> 00:45:08.668
David: So the service is $200 a month, US.

00:45:08.928 –> 00:45:11.148
David: And included in that is all of the sessions.

00:45:11.228 –> 00:45:13.688
David: So there’s no additional fees or anything.

00:45:13.708 –> 00:45:16.188
David: You get to book as many sessions as you can have per month.

00:45:16.528 –> 00:45:22.188
David: To put it in perspective, the average user probably books about five to seven sessions per month.

00:45:22.548 –> 00:45:26.348
David: But we actually have some users booking 10, 12, 15 sessions per month.

00:45:26.368 –> 00:45:28.608
David: So, I mean, you can do the math on 200.

00:45:28.628 –> 00:45:34.588
David: The deal really is awesome and it allows people to work with incredible musicians and not break the bank.

00:45:35.448 –> 00:45:36.168
John Kennedy: It sounds great.

00:45:36.248 –> 00:45:38.768
John Kennedy: Can you remind us what the offer is for Tape Notes listeners?

00:45:39.008 –> 00:45:41.848
David: Well, look, we’re so thankful that you guys are having us on here.

00:45:42.228 –> 00:45:47.248
David: What we would love to do is offer 25% off per month for their first three months.

00:45:47.328 –> 00:45:49.868
David: And then the other cool part is they get to skip our waitlist.

00:45:50.008 –> 00:45:52.068
David: So, we usually run a waitlist.

00:45:52.088 –> 00:45:53.208
David: It’s about two weeks long.

00:45:53.208 –> 00:45:57.508
David: But in this case, finding us through this episode, you could have a session as early as tomorrow.

00:45:57.948 –> 00:45:58.568
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

00:45:58.688 –> 00:46:02.928
John Kennedy: And to get the offer, all you have to do is find the link in any of our recent episode show notes.

00:46:03.168 –> 00:46:04.748
John Kennedy: David, thank you so much for speaking to us.

00:46:04.768 –> 00:46:09.628
John Kennedy: And maybe one day we’ll be talking about a piece of music that’s been created using Museversal.

00:46:09.848 –> 00:46:10.788
David: That would be incredible.

00:46:10.808 –> 00:46:11.888
David: We cannot wait for that day.

00:46:14.568 –> 00:46:18.428
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at by Four Tet is Skater from the album Three.

00:46:18.468 –> 00:46:26.728
John Kennedy: So, Kieran, if you could play, I was gonna say Master, but the finished version or the final version, how would you think of them when they get onto the record?

00:46:27.508 –> 00:46:30.548
Kieran Hebden: There isn’t a process where it’s like, mastering happens at the end.

00:46:30.568 –> 00:46:33.108
Kieran Hebden: I actually, the records, I master them myself.

00:46:34.168 –> 00:46:36.028
Kieran Hebden: I work with the mastering engineer to do the vinyl.

00:46:36.048 –> 00:46:36.968
Kieran Hebden: That’s a whole other thing.

00:46:37.308 –> 00:46:44.348
Kieran Hebden: For the digital version, you hear it’s, I’ve done the masters and sort of working on mastering a little bit myself the whole time.

00:46:44.368 –> 00:46:51.448
Kieran Hebden: Like, I get the track to a certain place and then I put a limiter and stuff on the end.

00:46:51.468 –> 00:46:52.288
Kieran Hebden: What’s this one got?

00:46:52.308 –> 00:46:54.008
Kieran Hebden: And we can even look sometimes as EQ.

00:46:54.788 –> 00:47:04.028
Kieran Hebden: This has just got like the FabFilter Pro-L2 and it’s got a Ozone Maximizer, just like a couple of limiters or whatever to just get the sort of level I’m looking for.

00:47:04.048 –> 00:47:10.548
Kieran Hebden: But I didn’t really want to work on something for ages and then hand it over to somebody else to change the EQ or the compression on it.

00:47:10.568 –> 00:47:15.248
Kieran Hebden: Like I’m usually, I just feel pretty happy to just do that myself.

00:47:15.488 –> 00:47:22.888
Kieran Hebden: I know some people are like, oh, it’s great to have some fresh ears on it at the end and maybe somebody else, but I’m like, I’ve just been working on this for three years.

00:47:22.908 –> 00:47:25.868
Kieran Hebden: I don’t want somebody to come in and add, change the EQ on it.

00:47:26.108 –> 00:47:29.568
Kieran Hebden: I’ve thought about that very, very deeply for a very, very long time.

00:47:29.588 –> 00:47:32.468
Kieran Hebden: You know, like how loud I want it to be and all these things.

00:47:33.508 –> 00:47:38.828
Kieran Hebden: So that sort of mastering concept is something that’s kind of going on as I’m making the…

00:47:38.988 –> 00:47:41.728
John Kennedy: So do you think of the tracks in terms of that’s finished?

00:47:41.928 –> 00:47:42.568
John Kennedy: So it’s just…

00:47:42.588 –> 00:47:43.948
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, yeah, it’s just finished.

00:47:44.248 –> 00:47:52.628
Kieran Hebden: Like it’s just sort of sitting there and like, I mean, the one thing I have to do at the end is like work out the little gaps between the tracks and the transitions and the silence.

00:47:52.748 –> 00:47:57.088
Kieran Hebden: I suppose that’s kind of a mastering process, but generally a track’s done.

00:47:57.108 –> 00:47:57.908
Kieran Hebden: I’m sort of happy.

00:47:57.928 –> 00:48:00.368
Kieran Hebden: Everything’s sort of vaguely realistic level.

00:48:00.908 –> 00:48:04.888
Kieran Hebden: If something’s way too loud or too quiet, it makes me think, there’s some sort of problem with this.

00:48:04.888 –> 00:48:12.908
Kieran Hebden: Like I sort of know where it needs to sit to get the sort of dynamic range that I want and the volume I want and all those things.

00:48:12.928 –> 00:48:18.448
Kieran Hebden: And I tend to like, I’ve been sending in a master that’s maybe like a DB quieter or whatever to have the vinyl cut.

00:48:18.468 –> 00:48:30.408
Kieran Hebden: So the vinyl of three has one DB less of limiting than the album version to make it just a little bit more dynamic because I’m not really making vinyl anymore for DJs so much.

00:48:30.428 –> 00:48:33.328
Kieran Hebden: It’s more just like it’s more of a listening thing.

00:48:34.388 –> 00:48:38.088
Kieran Hebden: So I might bring it down a little bit to get it a little more dynamic for the vinyl works well.

00:48:38.468 –> 00:48:38.928
John Kennedy: Interesting.

00:48:39.608 –> 00:48:41.848
John Kennedy: Let’s hear Skater, the Finnish version.

00:50:08.534 –> 00:50:12.574
John Kennedy: A little taste of Skater by Four Tet from the album Three.

00:50:13.054 –> 00:50:14.854
John Kennedy: So where did this one start, Kieran?

00:50:15.674 –> 00:50:20.914
Kieran Hebden: So this is from the early part of making the records.

00:50:21.414 –> 00:50:30.234
Kieran Hebden: Like I was saying, it’s three years, so Daydream Repeat was made quite far into it, loved gliding into everything with the last two things I did.

00:50:30.614 –> 00:50:34.294
Kieran Hebden: But this is one of the really first things that I did.

00:50:35.194 –> 00:50:41.354
Kieran Hebden: I was talking earlier about I was having a lot of time with four-track tape machines and guitar and all this stuff.

00:50:42.154 –> 00:50:44.134
Kieran Hebden: That’s what I was messing around with.

00:50:44.314 –> 00:50:45.574
John Kennedy: So that is you playing guitar?

00:50:45.594 –> 00:50:46.654
Kieran Hebden: That’s me playing guitar.

00:50:47.014 –> 00:50:48.534
John Kennedy: Within that three-year period?

00:50:49.074 –> 00:50:52.054
John Kennedy: So you haven’t found an old recording of-

00:50:52.334 –> 00:50:52.634
Kieran Hebden: No.

00:50:52.654 –> 00:50:58.274
Kieran Hebden: But I was messing with all these old ways of making music to see what happened.

00:50:58.374 –> 00:51:02.754
Kieran Hebden: I was making stuff and a lot of the music I made, I was just like, this just sounds like what I made.

00:51:02.774 –> 00:51:04.714
Kieran Hebden: I was like a teenager, sort of pointless.

00:51:04.834 –> 00:51:08.414
Kieran Hebden: I made tons of stuff that wasn’t any good.

00:51:08.994 –> 00:51:19.554
Kieran Hebden: But after sitting some time on it, I came back to this and I actually like this more and more as time goes on, because I think it’s got a sort of personal thing to me.

00:51:19.574 –> 00:51:29.494
Kieran Hebden: So it’s called Skater for my daughter and what happened, I can remember the whole thing of what happened when I made this.

00:51:32.574 –> 00:51:34.754
Kieran Hebden: So I had the guitar.

00:51:35.534 –> 00:51:39.174
Kieran Hebden: And this part was this guitar line and these harmonics.

00:51:39.674 –> 00:51:42.854
Kieran Hebden: And I don’t know why I just recorded this.

00:51:42.894 –> 00:51:53.694
Kieran Hebden: I just came up with this thing on the guitar and I was playing it with no sort of plan, particularly of let me just try and record this guitar idea I’d come up with.

00:51:53.814 –> 00:51:56.434
Kieran Hebden: I play quite a lot of guitar, but I don’t put guitar on the record too much.

00:51:56.794 –> 00:52:03.954
Kieran Hebden: I love playing just as something you just consistently enjoy, just relaxing thing to do is sit and play guitar.

00:52:04.474 –> 00:52:10.674
Kieran Hebden: But this time I happened to record this idea, this chorus guitar part and these harmonics.

00:52:10.694 –> 00:52:16.794
Kieran Hebden: Then later that day, it was the winter and I took my daughter ice skating.

00:52:17.294 –> 00:52:20.994
Kieran Hebden: This is all during the pandemic.

00:52:21.014 –> 00:52:23.234
Kieran Hebden: I didn’t really want to make any emphasis.

00:52:23.254 –> 00:52:24.494
Kieran Hebden: It’s like a pandemic record.

00:52:24.514 –> 00:52:26.354
Kieran Hebden: I find it so boring when we’re talking about that.

00:52:26.754 –> 00:52:27.934
Kieran Hebden: But this is what was happening.

00:52:28.034 –> 00:52:30.534
Kieran Hebden: We’d been quite isolated.

00:52:30.554 –> 00:52:33.094
Kieran Hebden: I’m in upstate New York, Woodstock.

00:52:33.334 –> 00:52:37.254
Kieran Hebden: I hadn’t been seeing many people very much.

00:52:37.314 –> 00:52:44.634
Kieran Hebden: My daughter, she just turned 14, which is probably 11 or 12 when this is happening.

00:52:44.674 –> 00:52:49.734
Kieran Hebden: There’s a pond near us that had frozen over thick enough that you could ice skate on it.

00:52:50.614 –> 00:52:57.874
Kieran Hebden: Some people have come by and cleared areas of the ice so they could play ice hockey and stuff, move the snow out of the way.

00:52:57.894 –> 00:53:02.534
Kieran Hebden: There was just not much we could do as activities.

00:53:02.754 –> 00:53:11.194
Kieran Hebden: I was feeling, it was just a sad time, and a sad time to see her bits of restricted.

00:53:11.214 –> 00:53:18.554
Kieran Hebden: It was absolutely beautiful when we were out on this pond.

00:53:18.614 –> 00:53:20.934
Kieran Hebden: She was ice skating, she loved ice skating.

00:53:21.154 –> 00:53:22.474
Kieran Hebden: I can’t ice skate at all.

00:53:22.494 –> 00:53:23.634
Kieran Hebden: I’m terrified of ice skating.

00:53:24.054 –> 00:53:25.294
Kieran Hebden: I have no sense of balance.

00:53:25.314 –> 00:53:27.234
Kieran Hebden: I just feel like I’m going to fall over and break something.

00:53:27.254 –> 00:53:29.414
Kieran Hebden: I never want to be in that precarious position.

00:53:30.054 –> 00:53:34.474
Kieran Hebden: But I was standing there in the sun watching her ice skate around.

00:53:35.574 –> 00:53:39.474
Kieran Hebden: She just looked unbelievably free in this moment and incredibly happy.

00:53:42.254 –> 00:53:48.394
Kieran Hebden: It just felt like a moment where just me and her escaping from all the heavy stuff for a moment.

00:53:48.414 –> 00:53:52.554
Kieran Hebden: It was really, really good, really incredible moment.

00:53:52.594 –> 00:53:59.114
Kieran Hebden: I recorded the sound of her ice skating, which you hear in the middle of the track in the breakdown.

00:54:03.434 –> 00:54:08.194
Kieran Hebden: So I recorded on my phone and you can hear her sort of like moving around and coming past me.

00:54:19.088 –> 00:54:23.408
Kieran Hebden: So yeah, I had this experience this afternoon with her with the ice skating, done the guitar in the morning.

00:54:23.428 –> 00:54:30.288
Kieran Hebden: I think, if I remember right, I can’t totally, perfectly accurately, maybe I’m romanticizing it a little bit in my head.

00:54:30.628 –> 00:54:42.708
Kieran Hebden: I think what happened is then I came home that evening, and I just made this, you know, with the guitar, I added the ice skating sounds, and I just put the whole thing together, and I listened to it.

00:54:42.988 –> 00:54:58.908
Kieran Hebden: And you know, when I said three years, just like my life for the last three years, this is an absolute moment for my life, like a powerful, like a moment about, you know, me and my daughter getting a moment of escape from everything.

00:54:59.128 –> 00:55:08.328
Kieran Hebden: And when these things sort of happen, if something happens to me that’s quite emotional or powerful, I like, I really want to hear a piece of music to go with it.

00:55:08.368 –> 00:55:18.188
Kieran Hebden: You know, I’ll often put a record on, if I’m feeling kind of emotional or something like, if I, you know, if I miss somebody or something like that, it’s so common for me to play a record that connects me to that person.

00:55:18.208 –> 00:55:32.268
Kieran Hebden: So especially people who have passed away, like it’s, instead of finding it sort of too depressing, I find it like really, really helpful to put on a record that connects me that person and maybe drive whilst listening to it or cook or something and have that music on.

00:55:32.848 –> 00:55:43.348
Kieran Hebden: But some of the music I’ve made for myself that I really, really like is I, in that moment when I need to hear something, I actually make it, I make the thing I need to hear, you know, and I feel like that’s what happened here.

00:55:43.348 –> 00:55:50.128
Kieran Hebden: Like I had the guitar part, the ice skating, and then I combined it with the drums and these other sort of melodies.

00:55:50.148 –> 00:55:51.988
Kieran Hebden: And it’s like the story of that moment for me.

00:55:52.108 –> 00:55:52.428
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:55:52.848 –> 00:56:00.048
John Kennedy: The ice skating recording, did you process that in any way or is that raw and exactly as it was or?

00:56:00.628 –> 00:56:02.548
Kieran Hebden: I’ve had to roll sub bass off it.

00:56:03.168 –> 00:56:16.888
Kieran Hebden: I’ve put a little, some compression on it because it had some mad spikes and I’ve used this plugin called Microshift on it, which makes things sound more three dimensional.

00:56:16.908 –> 00:56:20.988
Kieran Hebden: I think it like puts a little delay on them between your two speakers.

00:56:21.008 –> 00:56:21.988
Kieran Hebden: I think that’s what it does.

00:56:23.148 –> 00:56:24.508
Kieran Hebden: Microshift Soundtoys.

00:56:27.828 –> 00:56:38.768
Kieran Hebden: The other great thing is when you have big sheets of ice like that, I’ve got quite a lot of recordings of, you get other pieces of ice or rocks and things and slide them across the ice, and you get really, really amazing sounds.

00:56:38.788 –> 00:56:40.968
Kieran Hebden: There’s one of the other tracks.

00:56:40.988 –> 00:56:48.648
Kieran Hebden: There’s a track on the album called Storm Crystals, which was made on a day when there was a really, really crazy ice storm there.

00:56:48.668 –> 00:56:53.288
Kieran Hebden: I think it’s one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen in my life.

00:56:53.648 –> 00:57:03.788
Kieran Hebden: There was enormous rainstorm followed by very, very cold temperature and all the trees and everything were just covered in these sparkling crystals.

00:57:03.928 –> 00:57:05.168
Kieran Hebden: I was getting up in the morning.

00:57:05.328 –> 00:57:06.668
Kieran Hebden: It was a really dangerous thing.

00:57:06.688 –> 00:57:08.048
Kieran Hebden: Power lines came down everywhere.

00:57:08.068 –> 00:57:10.068
Kieran Hebden: We had no power for three or four days.

00:57:10.728 –> 00:57:25.088
Kieran Hebden: It was really, really hard in some respects, but so insanely beautiful outside that it was really, really crazy and I made that track Storm Crystals whilst all that was going on.

00:57:25.108 –> 00:57:31.688
Kieran Hebden: I would be like, I’d have to drive to another town to charge up my computer to get enough charge on it.

00:57:32.048 –> 00:57:39.268
Kieran Hebden: Then I’d come home and I’d make a fire and try and get enough heat going on, because it’s probably minus 15 outside.

00:57:39.288 –> 00:57:41.048
Kieran Hebden: So it’s really, really, really, really cold.

00:57:41.528 –> 00:57:49.148
Kieran Hebden: Get a fire going and know that I’ve got enough charge on my computer to entertain myself four hours or something.

00:57:49.728 –> 00:57:54.228
Kieran Hebden: One of the things I did was make one of the pieces of music that ends up on the outside.

00:57:54.248 –> 00:58:02.608
Kieran Hebden: I think some of the things I chose on the album were very much like, oh, this is a real experience I’ve gone through and this is made during that.

00:58:02.628 –> 00:58:06.968
Kieran Hebden: Then after, it seemed like the best ones came about from those moments.

00:58:06.988 –> 00:58:07.708
Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

00:58:08.048 –> 00:58:08.508
John Kennedy: Amazing.

00:58:08.728 –> 00:58:10.548
John Kennedy: So you had the ice skating experience.

00:58:10.648 –> 00:58:13.908
John Kennedy: You’d already been playing that guitar line in the morning, you said.

00:58:14.028 –> 00:58:18.148
John Kennedy: So then did you pick up the guitar again or had you recorded?

00:58:18.168 –> 00:58:19.528
Kieran Hebden: I recorded the guitar.

00:58:19.548 –> 00:58:28.708
Kieran Hebden: This is where the whole thing starts to turn into semi-technical nightmare for myself that then went on for a while, which was like, the guitar is not really in time with anything too much.

00:58:29.208 –> 00:58:31.508
Kieran Hebden: So I recorded it.

00:58:31.888 –> 00:58:42.068
Kieran Hebden: So I made this drum beat, which is like an old drum break from a record combined with a more subby kick, and I’ve added like a little clap to it.

00:58:49.338 –> 00:58:52.418
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, I’ve just added these things, really, really like a basic thing.

00:58:52.438 –> 00:58:54.478
Kieran Hebden: I had that as a placeholder.

00:58:54.498 –> 00:59:00.378
Kieran Hebden: Maybe I recorded the guitar to that, or at least to a click track of some sort, but it was very, very loose.

00:59:03.218 –> 00:59:18.158
Kieran Hebden: And I had this thing with these guitar harmonics, but as you can see, I’ve had to chop everything an enormous amount of time to get it all sitting with the groove right on the drums.

00:59:19.078 –> 00:59:26.618
Kieran Hebden: So I think I will have been working on it and having it quite loose for ages, but then I’ll be like, this is really, really messy and amateurish, I need to get the timing right.

00:59:26.638 –> 00:59:32.438
Kieran Hebden: So I had these parts, guitar harmonics, and then with the drums.

00:59:41.428 –> 00:59:44.728
Kieran Hebden: So once I had those things, I was like, all right, this is my sort of starting point.

00:59:45.248 –> 00:59:47.308
Kieran Hebden: I’ve got the ice skating idea and everything.

00:59:47.948 –> 00:59:54.328
Kieran Hebden: And then I was like, all right, well, if you had this as your first initial riff or whatever, like what’s gonna happen?

00:59:54.768 –> 00:59:59.328
Kieran Hebden: And I was like, I need a bass line of some sort, and I need another melodic idea.

01:00:00.028 –> 01:00:11.668
Kieran Hebden: So the bass is, bass is just done on like Omnisphere, which is the synth, main synth plugin I use for absolutely everything.

01:00:19.008 –> 01:00:20.208
Kieran Hebden: How well have I done this?

01:00:20.688 –> 01:00:23.368
Kieran Hebden: I do have a little MIDI keyboard, but I can’t see it.

01:00:23.448 –> 01:00:24.708
Kieran Hebden: The velocity is the same on everything.

01:00:24.728 –> 01:00:50.068
Kieran Hebden: So I think I will have just programmed, drawn this in as well, you know, like finding the idea of a bass line that could sit with the guitar and then, oh, I’ve doubled it up with like a bell sound, but that’s just a double to make the, to make the bass pop out a little bit more.

01:00:50.088 –> 01:00:55.168
Kieran Hebden: I’ll often add another instrument doing exactly the same line so that you can sort of hear it in the mix.

01:00:55.188 –> 01:01:06.428
Kieran Hebden: So there’s this bell combined with the bass, which just makes the notes stick out a little bit more when you’ve got the, you can’t really hear the bell too much.

01:01:06.448 –> 01:01:14.628
Kieran Hebden: Like it’s quite sort of subliminal, but without it, it’s burying the bass more in the mix, you know?

01:01:14.928 –> 01:01:17.248
John Kennedy: And do you have to tweak those individual sounds?

01:01:17.268 –> 01:01:18.848
John Kennedy: Do you have to adjust them?

01:01:19.268 –> 01:01:21.488
Kieran Hebden: I pretty much only use presets on things.

01:01:21.828 –> 01:01:29.268
Kieran Hebden: I don’t really mess with, basically, I’ll get a sound, I’ll get the melody, the notes I want, and then I’ll get it up and running.

01:01:31.408 –> 01:01:33.888
Kieran Hebden: On Omnisphere, I’ll be like, all right, what are the bass sounds?

01:01:34.348 –> 01:01:39.828
Kieran Hebden: And I’ll just cycle through loads and loads of them one after another until I find one that’s quite nice.

01:01:39.848 –> 01:01:45.608
Kieran Hebden: So they’ve got this area synth bass, and the one I’ve used is called Plectra Sub.

01:01:45.988 –> 01:01:51.468
Kieran Hebden: So it’s P, I must have cycled through, they’re in alphabetical order, I must have cycled through hundreds before I chose that.

01:01:52.288 –> 01:01:56.948
Kieran Hebden: But yeah, the same notes will just play all these different bass sounds.

01:01:57.408 –> 01:01:59.228
Kieran Hebden: And I’ll just choose a preset and that’ll be it.

01:01:59.868 –> 01:02:04.248
Kieran Hebden: I’m not doing any sound design type of stuff particularly on any of my things.

01:02:04.268 –> 01:02:11.488
Kieran Hebden: Definitely not one of those people that’s like, I’m going to start with a sine wave, and now I’m going to do this, I’m going to do this.

01:02:11.508 –> 01:02:15.508
Kieran Hebden: I don’t really mess with any fundamental stuff, stuff like that.

01:02:16.088 –> 01:02:17.588
Kieran Hebden: Usually because I’m just sort of in a rush.

01:02:21.068 –> 01:02:27.648
Kieran Hebden: So I’ve got the bass sound, replicated it with a bell, guitar, so I had all those things.

01:02:28.408 –> 01:02:41.428
Kieran Hebden: And then I suppose the next thing, and I think probably the thing that sort of makes or breaks the track for me, because the bass line and the guitar part and everything have got a mood.

01:02:41.448 –> 01:02:57.908
Kieran Hebden: But the thing for me that I’m like, when I stumbled across it, I think combined with the skating and everything that happened, I was like, all right, this is actually going to work as a track, is when I come up with the main melodic synth part that goes over the right top, which is this.

01:02:59.828 –> 01:03:23.228
Kieran Hebden: And it’s a way of doing things that I do quite a lot, which is to come up with melodic idea and then just have it happen exactly the same notes, but with three different instruments, so you first hear it on this more delicate sound.

01:03:23.248 –> 01:03:26.028
Kieran Hebden: So you get a sort of hint of the melodic idea seen there.

01:03:26.048 –> 01:03:31.368
Kieran Hebden: And then it’s just emphasized just by adding exactly the same melody, but with another instrument over the top.

01:03:33.468 –> 01:03:51.188
Kieran Hebden: And then when this higher version comes in after that’s done, you then hear the melody again that played by another instrument starts fading in.

01:03:51.608 –> 01:03:56.528
Kieran Hebden: And this one is like a voice.

01:04:00.228 –> 01:04:05.408
Kieran Hebden: So this is done just by taking the same midi notes and just trying loads and loads of different presets and all of them.

01:04:05.428 –> 01:04:07.888
Kieran Hebden: And I’ve landed on these three that fit together nicely.

01:04:10.028 –> 01:04:13.688
Kieran Hebden: Then at this point, we’re just back into that idea of arrangement I was talking about earlier.

01:04:13.708 –> 01:04:21.268
Kieran Hebden: You know, it’s like, so my idea this time is like guitar part is the thing, drums are the thing.

01:04:22.048 –> 01:04:26.028
Kieran Hebden: And then I need a melody that’s like gonna like pull it all together.

01:04:26.348 –> 01:04:29.088
Kieran Hebden: You know, and give the sort of emotional feel that I want to go.

01:04:29.108 –> 01:04:37.288
Kieran Hebden: And then I’ve got the texture of the ice skating and everything is the thing that’s gonna sort of humanize all this thing from real life.

01:04:37.368 –> 01:04:42.328
Kieran Hebden: So I landed on those parts and then it’s like, all right, what’s the arrangement gonna be?

01:04:42.348 –> 01:04:47.268
Kieran Hebden: You know, and then all the other things that happen are just there to sort of guide you through the track.

01:04:47.288 –> 01:04:55.328
Kieran Hebden: There’s like these little vocal samples and stuff that come in to combine with the synths.

01:04:55.368 –> 01:05:01.948
Kieran Hebden: And there’s things, but they’re very quiet and subliminal, like they’re not.

01:05:03.788 –> 01:05:15.888
Kieran Hebden: I didn’t make them like a lead part of the song because it’s like I want the melody and the groove of it all to be sort of here.

01:05:16.588 –> 01:05:33.408
Kieran Hebden: And then the ice skating and the humans and all the people and stuff sort of like echoes around in the sort of distance around you and have that sort of subliminal effect of like, all right, you’re really engaged with the melody and the sounds and everything, but there’s an atmosphere there that puts it in a sort of world.

01:05:33.468 –> 01:05:42.648
Kieran Hebden: And so I use a lot of things like that where there’s little quiet echo-y bits of vocals and noises and little things happening all the time combined with everything else.

01:05:47.368 –> 01:06:01.708
Kieran Hebden: I’ve always done it, but then working on the Burial Records, for instance, working on stuff with him where he invented so many levels of doing that in ways that people had never thought, like tons of subliminal little sounds and textures all the time.

01:06:02.508 –> 01:06:09.528
Kieran Hebden: And even with the Fridge stuff, we used to do things where I think there’s this song Angle Poised, which is really, really long.

01:06:09.548 –> 01:06:12.668
Kieran Hebden: It’s like an 808 drum machine and bass guitar.

01:06:12.688 –> 01:06:18.808
Kieran Hebden: And then we recorded, we were playing like Nintendo or something in like some downtime.

01:06:19.188 –> 01:06:24.288
Kieran Hebden: And we just ran a microphone in the room while we were playing like computer games and chatting.

01:06:24.608 –> 01:06:28.128
Kieran Hebden: And we would just have that quietly in the mix with like a delay on it or something.

01:06:28.688 –> 01:06:53.468
Kieran Hebden: And sort of learn early on that having these little bits of texture mixed in with everything actually put things in a world, you know, especially when you’re using doing like electronic music, it really puts things in a sort of zone that is a great device and for giving something a way for people to connect to it without them really even understanding why they’re connecting to it.

01:06:54.008 –> 01:06:55.708
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

01:06:55.968 –> 01:06:57.008
John Kennedy: Absolutely fascinating.

01:06:57.028 –> 01:07:01.168
John Kennedy: Maybe we should hear kind of somewhere near the end of the track to round things off.

01:07:01.168 –> 01:07:13.128
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, the breakdown, there’s a sort of like breakdown and the same as Daydream Repeat, like the idea of having a breakdown where it all sort of like this is the bit where it breaks down and reveals the ice skating sounds.

01:08:01.853 –> 01:08:04.793
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, the idea here is to create that moment where you get everything.

01:08:05.253 –> 01:08:12.793
Kieran Hebden: Where like, the guitar, the melody at its loudest, all the samples, the drums, everything for that moment.

01:08:13.153 –> 01:08:18.753
Kieran Hebden: Here we’re going to have a moment where there’s all the ideas and now we’re going to let it all play out for the…

01:08:18.773 –> 01:08:22.573
Kieran Hebden: sort of bring you back down from the whole thing.

01:08:22.593 –> 01:08:32.033
Kieran Hebden: I think there’s quite a lot of the sort of arrangements building up to this peak moment of intensity and then taking everybody out of that afterwards.

01:08:32.053 –> 01:08:32.153
David: See ya.

01:09:20.053 –> 01:09:21.053
John Kennedy: So that is skater.

01:09:21.609 –> 01:09:25.429
John Kennedy: We’re gonna take a quick break, and we’re gonna look at a song that’s not on the album next.

01:09:34.675 –> 01:09:36.535
John Kennedy: Time for a quick Tape It feature highlight.

01:09:36.755 –> 01:09:39.215
John Kennedy: Did you know that while you’re recording, you can drop markers?

01:09:39.375 –> 01:09:41.315
John Kennedy: No more scrolling through endless voice notes.

01:09:41.555 –> 01:09:44.375
John Kennedy: Once you’ve finished, you can go back to the markers to find your best bits.

01:09:44.575 –> 01:09:48.075
John Kennedy: You can also name your markers if there’s a specific note you want to add.

01:09:48.355 –> 01:09:55.235
John Kennedy: To find out more, head to the link in a recent episode, Show Notes, or use the promo code Tapenotes for 50% off Tape It Pro.

01:09:57.735 –> 01:10:03.475
John Kennedy: The next one we’re going to look at, Kieran, isn’t technically by Four Tet, it’s under your KH moniker.

01:10:04.095 –> 01:10:05.775
John Kennedy: And it is looking at your pager.

01:10:06.495 –> 01:10:11.015
John Kennedy: Maybe if you play the track, and then we can work out how you arrived at this.

01:11:38.682 –> 01:11:49.322
John Kennedy: Looking at you, Pager, I’m glad that you chose this side of what you’re all about, Kieran, as well, because obviously, Four Tet is who you are, too.

01:11:49.597 –> 01:11:52.457
John Kennedy: But there are so many different things that you’re involved in.

01:11:52.897 –> 01:11:57.197
John Kennedy: And especially in the last few years, this side of things has really kind of taken off.

01:11:57.337 –> 01:11:58.697
John Kennedy: And how do you differentiate?

01:11:58.717 –> 01:12:01.657
John Kennedy: I mean, why is this KH and why isn’t it Four Tet?

01:12:03.757 –> 01:12:07.357
Kieran Hebden: Basically, yeah, I do a lot of DJing and I really, really love it.

01:12:07.417 –> 01:12:10.677
Kieran Hebden: And I love being involved in like club music like that and stuff.

01:12:11.337 –> 01:12:15.657
Kieran Hebden: And I used to make tracks that were just like DJ tracks, just stuff to play out.

01:12:16.217 –> 01:12:19.197
Kieran Hebden: And I would share them around friends and things like that.

01:12:19.217 –> 01:12:23.017
Kieran Hebden: And I would just label them KH, my initials, and I’d send them off to people.

01:12:23.617 –> 01:12:32.897
Kieran Hebden: And, you know, it’s hit a point where like, oh, a few of these things, people are like seem, are into, and there’s a demand to release them and stuff.

01:12:32.957 –> 01:12:35.497
Kieran Hebden: And it’s often made around like samples and things.

01:12:35.517 –> 01:12:37.077
Kieran Hebden: So it’s always a little more complicated.

01:12:37.097 –> 01:12:39.697
Kieran Hebden: And I had this one that sampled Nelly Furtado.

01:12:40.337 –> 01:12:46.617
Kieran Hebden: And in the end, everybody wanted to come out and actually had to go through a proper label and everything.

01:12:46.637 –> 01:12:49.217
Kieran Hebden: Because I usually just release everything is completely on my own.

01:12:50.357 –> 01:12:56.977
Kieran Hebden: And so yeah, Ministry of Sound put this record out and it was just like, oh, I’ve got this whole other thing going on with these like kind of club tracks and stuff.

01:12:57.637 –> 01:13:03.997
Kieran Hebden: And yeah, I was like, I should show one of these as well, because like the album is one thing I’ve got going on, but I’ve got all sorts of other different things too.

01:13:04.797 –> 01:13:21.177
Kieran Hebden: And the KH tracks is usually something that I’ve made totally with the idea, like I want to make something that I can play when I DJ and it’s going to work in club or a festival or all these sorts of things is like right at the front of my mind when I’m doing it.

01:13:21.777 –> 01:13:26.857
Kieran Hebden: And yeah, this is one of the ones that I did thinking about that worked out.

01:13:27.277 –> 01:13:28.477
Kieran Hebden: I’m so happy I made this.

01:13:28.497 –> 01:13:34.697
Kieran Hebden: I was like, I look back at it sometimes and be like, oh, like that worked out so well, like this track.

01:13:35.077 –> 01:13:39.577
Kieran Hebden: Sometimes I look back at tracks of mine I’ve made and I’m just like, my God, how did I do that?

01:13:39.597 –> 01:13:44.457
Kieran Hebden: And I really lucked out, found these three sounds that fit together in this amazing way.

01:13:44.477 –> 01:14:01.697
Kieran Hebden: And it was so, I think all the things I’ve picked today, like it’s the things I end up releasing, it’s the things with the simplicity of my favorite things I’ve ever done, have this sort of, or often just a few sounds that all complement each other good way and say everything I’m trying to do in like quite simple and direct way.

01:14:01.717 –> 01:14:02.717
Kieran Hebden: And this is just one of those.

01:14:03.217 –> 01:14:07.037
John Kennedy: Yeah, and it’s ridiculously popular, it’s had millions of streams.

01:14:07.577 –> 01:14:10.657
John Kennedy: And it’s interesting how these things complement each other.

01:14:11.197 –> 01:14:14.577
John Kennedy: Because it’s almost as if one allows you to do the other and vice versa.

01:14:15.057 –> 01:14:15.437
Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

01:14:15.717 –> 01:14:18.637
Kieran Hebden: And I think whatever I do, you can hear me in it.

01:14:19.017 –> 01:14:22.337
Kieran Hebden: And I think that makes me, I don’t really worry about it all too much.

01:14:23.197 –> 01:14:25.457
Kieran Hebden: Like it’s releasing something under another name.

01:14:25.477 –> 01:14:27.937
Kieran Hebden: It’s not, people often say, how do you differentiate?

01:14:27.957 –> 01:14:30.557
Kieran Hebden: And that is not super conceptual and pretty casual about it.

01:14:31.237 –> 01:14:33.797
Kieran Hebden: I mean, this could have come out as one of the Four Tet records.

01:14:34.297 –> 01:14:40.857
Kieran Hebden: If I was making an album and it was more sort of like clubby and poppy or whatever, I would have been like, oh, I need this for the album.

01:14:40.877 –> 01:14:43.037
Kieran Hebden: That would work really well.

01:14:43.057 –> 01:14:49.837
Kieran Hebden: You know, the way I had like 16 Oceans, Baby and stuff like maybe this fits in a bit with those sorts of things, you know?

01:14:50.197 –> 01:14:50.497
Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

01:14:50.937 –> 01:14:57.717
Kieran Hebden: But this was one, it was like, there’s this festival called Lost Village that’s in up near Lincoln around there.

01:14:57.737 –> 01:14:59.297
Kieran Hebden: And it’s one of my favorite festivals.

01:14:59.297 –> 01:15:01.757
Kieran Hebden: I absolutely love doing it.

01:15:02.137 –> 01:15:05.357
Kieran Hebden: And the crowds, it’s like I can’t lose there.

01:15:05.377 –> 01:15:08.817
Kieran Hebden: Like the crowd’s so excited about me playing and I’m so excited about playing.

01:15:08.837 –> 01:15:13.997
Kieran Hebden: And we just all know we’re just going to have the best time when I do it.

01:15:14.017 –> 01:15:15.957
Kieran Hebden: It’s one that I really, really love playing there.

01:15:16.597 –> 01:15:21.537
Kieran Hebden: And I was booked to play there and it was like a week or so away before the show.

01:15:21.557 –> 01:15:24.557
Kieran Hebden: And I was like preparing music, thinking about what I was going to play.

01:15:24.577 –> 01:15:26.677
Kieran Hebden: And I was like, I wish I had something new.

01:15:27.677 –> 01:15:32.197
Kieran Hebden: I need to make something that just everybody just understands straight away.

01:15:32.637 –> 01:15:38.897
Kieran Hebden: And you hear it and it’s like you’ve heard it before, but you’ve never heard it before and you’re just loving it.

01:15:39.257 –> 01:15:43.377
Kieran Hebden: This was the sort of like, just this basic idea I had in my head.

01:15:43.397 –> 01:15:45.897
Kieran Hebden: And I actually made this song in bed.

01:15:45.917 –> 01:15:46.897
Kieran Hebden: I was just sitting in bed.

01:15:46.917 –> 01:15:47.777
Kieran Hebden: It was at night.

01:15:48.277 –> 01:15:52.417
Kieran Hebden: And I was like, well, I should start with a vocal idea.

01:15:52.437 –> 01:15:55.337
Kieran Hebden: Like everybody loves a big like pop vocal or whatever.

01:15:55.357 –> 01:15:57.017
Kieran Hebden: And I had a folder of acapellas.

01:15:57.617 –> 01:16:03.897
Kieran Hebden: And the very first one, because they’re in alphabetical order, was this one, 3LW, No More.

01:16:04.237 –> 01:16:07.577
Kieran Hebden: And so I got that and I just dragged it into Ableton.

01:16:07.597 –> 01:16:08.617
Kieran Hebden: I was like, I’ll start with that.

01:16:08.997 –> 01:16:10.497
Kieran Hebden: And I found like a chunk of it.

01:16:10.517 –> 01:16:12.397
Kieran Hebden: I was like, oh, it’s got a catchy hook to it and stuff.

01:16:12.417 –> 01:16:14.937
Kieran Hebden: And then I realized I could get it working.

01:16:15.817 –> 01:16:16.777
Kieran Hebden: It’s quite fast for me.

01:16:16.797 –> 01:16:17.977
Kieran Hebden: It’s 140 BPM.

01:16:17.997 –> 01:16:19.157
Kieran Hebden: And I remember being like, it works.

01:16:19.177 –> 01:16:25.057
Kieran Hebden: If it’s slower than 140 BPM, the vocals a little bit weird and need to do something a little bit faster.

01:16:25.517 –> 01:16:32.917
Kieran Hebden: So I had like, like it’s been time stretched so much.

01:16:32.937 –> 01:16:36.917
Kieran Hebden: It’s in an uncomfortable position and then sort of mask that.

01:16:36.937 –> 01:16:40.137
Kieran Hebden: I must have like, what have I done here?

01:16:41.077 –> 01:16:47.937
Kieran Hebden: I’ve made just a small loop of a bit of the vocal and I think to give the vocal a bit of a pulse to it.

01:16:47.937 –> 01:17:05.777
Kieran Hebden: So in that vocal sound, there’s some timing so that there’s a, you hear the voice and it’s got a bit of a groove to it that you can sort of like lock in and cover up a bit of the weird time stretching artifacts and everything.

01:17:05.797 –> 01:17:08.877
Kieran Hebden: So I had that and a kick drum.

01:17:11.577 –> 01:17:12.977
Kieran Hebden: Like this, this is the starting point.

01:17:12.997 –> 01:17:21.677
Kieran Hebden: I had that and I heard this and I was like, okay, this is like, I can imagine going to a show and you’re hearing that vocal and the kick drums there and time and everything.

01:17:22.337 –> 01:17:23.997
Kieran Hebden: And then I was like, I need to get some drums.

01:17:24.057 –> 01:17:25.977
Kieran Hebden: And I didn’t even program any drums or anything.

01:17:25.997 –> 01:17:30.457
Kieran Hebden: I was just like, let me just try some loops first and see if anything fits.

01:17:32.037 –> 01:17:37.057
Kieran Hebden: And I found this, a beat that I’d made, I think on the drum route on this little drum machine.

01:17:37.677 –> 01:17:41.057
Kieran Hebden: And I put that in, I think I probably even used it on other records before.

01:17:41.077 –> 01:17:42.257
Kieran Hebden: This is something that was there.

01:17:43.897 –> 01:17:46.097
Kieran Hebden: Oh, and then an offbeat hi-hat, just to make it off.

01:17:46.517 –> 01:17:50.377
Kieran Hebden: And this is all happening in the space of like three or four minutes, you know?

01:17:50.397 –> 01:17:52.397
Kieran Hebden: I’m like, I’ve got this up and running.

01:17:52.777 –> 01:17:54.037
Kieran Hebden: And I was like, okay, right?

01:17:54.057 –> 01:17:58.737
Kieran Hebden: This is, I just knew, I was like, I’ve got something good here, this is really good.

01:18:02.237 –> 01:18:04.797
Kieran Hebden: And I was like, well, what’s gonna happen though, to turn it into something?

01:18:04.817 –> 01:18:10.737
Kieran Hebden: And I was like, well, it needs, I guess people would just want a wicked bass line to come in at that point.

01:18:12.597 –> 01:18:18.737
Kieran Hebden: So I just got a couple of notes, and then I was like, I should try and it would be really funny, I think at that point.

01:18:18.937 –> 01:18:22.577
Kieran Hebden: We’ve had like a really like wobbly mass or dubstep-y sort of bass sounds.

01:18:23.817 –> 01:18:29.277
Kieran Hebden: And again, really quick like that, I was just choosing presets on Omnisphere.

01:18:30.117 –> 01:18:33.977
Kieran Hebden: And after a couple, I didn’t make, these are just presets.

01:18:34.897 –> 01:18:36.057
Kieran Hebden: And I found this thing.

01:18:37.857 –> 01:18:38.837
Kieran Hebden: And once I had that-

01:18:38.857 –> 01:18:40.497
Kieran Hebden: What’s that called?

01:18:40.517 –> 01:18:41.977
Kieran Hebden: It’s called something like Wandering Around.

01:18:41.997 –> 01:18:46.777
Kieran Hebden: People keep sending me a link to the preset on Omnisphere, being like, hang on, we just found Swaggering Around.

01:18:46.877 –> 01:18:47.197
John Kennedy: Right.

01:18:47.777 –> 01:18:49.557
Kieran Hebden: It’s called Swaggering Around, yeah.

01:18:49.577 –> 01:18:51.097
Kieran Hebden: And it’s a bass sound on Omnisphere.

01:18:51.117 –> 01:18:56.397
Kieran Hebden: Oh, that didn’t have enough sub, so I’ve combined it with something.

01:18:57.337 –> 01:18:59.017
Kieran Hebden: It’s also Omnisphere, but I’ve frozen it.

01:18:59.697 –> 01:19:04.497
Kieran Hebden: It must just be like, I mean, that’s just very low sort of sine wave stuff.

01:19:05.377 –> 01:19:07.397
Kieran Hebden: So the combination of those two sounds.

01:19:10.537 –> 01:19:13.657
Kieran Hebden: And at this point, we’re like 15 minutes into making the song.

01:19:13.677 –> 01:19:15.857
Kieran Hebden: I’ve got the vocal, the drums and this bass sound.

01:19:16.237 –> 01:19:22.997
Kieran Hebden: And I was just like, boom, I was like, almost sort of like cheering, just being like, okay, this feels really good.

01:19:23.017 –> 01:19:24.657
Kieran Hebden: This is really, really vibey.

01:19:27.357 –> 01:19:28.277
Kieran Hebden: And then that was it.

01:19:28.297 –> 01:19:31.917
Kieran Hebden: And then straight away I was like, all right, well, I’ve got everything I need.

01:19:32.057 –> 01:19:34.017
Kieran Hebden: I just need to come up with some sort of arrangement.

01:19:34.577 –> 01:19:36.617
Kieran Hebden: And I added a couple of melodic things.

01:19:38.157 –> 01:19:44.277
Kieran Hebden: I added this sound, which is another Omnisphere preset, just to give it a lift.

01:19:45.017 –> 01:19:46.177
Kieran Hebden: And it’s all so basic.

01:19:46.197 –> 01:19:51.257
Kieran Hebden: It’s just presets with very little bits of EQ, hardly anything much going on at all.

01:19:52.017 –> 01:19:53.517
Kieran Hebden: And then I added, what’s this one?

01:19:58.297 –> 01:20:00.077
Kieran Hebden: Like a little arpeggiating bell.

01:20:01.257 –> 01:20:09.677
Kieran Hebden: I added a couple of touches of things that are very me, to have those sounds and just put a couple of things in.

01:20:10.077 –> 01:20:18.457
Kieran Hebden: When people heard this when I played at the festival, they knew it was me as well because of something like this, a signature sort of thing.

01:20:19.217 –> 01:20:22.217
Kieran Hebden: And then I was like, I’ve got the wobbly bass and all these things.

01:20:22.237 –> 01:20:32.717
Kieran Hebden: I should have some sort of big rolling fill, just bog standards like classic sort of dance music sort of things.

01:20:33.257 –> 01:20:35.217
Kieran Hebden: And then another drop and that was it.

01:20:35.837 –> 01:20:40.497
Kieran Hebden: I was kind of like, all right, and put it together very quickly.

01:20:40.517 –> 01:20:51.677
Kieran Hebden: And then the next day I would have woken up, quite like in the night to get the main idea for the song and then wake up and then I’ll spend a few hours, I’d say just like tweaking it to make sure everything’s exactly right.

01:20:53.577 –> 01:20:58.597
Kieran Hebden: And the sorts of things that I’ll then go back through being like is these little drop outs.

01:20:58.617 –> 01:21:00.257
Kieran Hebden: Like you’ve got a moment here where…

01:21:07.697 –> 01:21:11.717
Kieran Hebden: And you miss out a couple, I’ll just delete a few kick drums here and there and things like that.

01:21:11.737 –> 01:21:14.557
Kieran Hebden: They just keep making the loops sort of reset here and there.

01:21:14.577 –> 01:21:30.457
Kieran Hebden: And like, when you’ve got something like this, there’s just a few elements, or most of my tracks, like there’ll be a few elements and you’re just constantly doing little, little things here and there that just re-trigger the looping ideas in your mind or feel like something sort of refreshing and starting again.

01:21:30.477 –> 01:21:36.057
Kieran Hebden: When you hear it, like it just keeps it interesting without anything too sort of dramatic happening.

01:21:36.597 –> 01:21:40.517
Kieran Hebden: But yeah, it was this like kind of simple thing and it came together quickly.

01:21:40.557 –> 01:21:44.597
Kieran Hebden: And the first time I played it out was at Lost Village like a week later.

01:21:45.097 –> 01:21:48.077
Kieran Hebden: And I hadn’t even really thought about the mix too much.

01:21:48.197 –> 01:21:50.597
Kieran Hebden: I was just trying this out and I heard it on the big speakers.

01:21:50.617 –> 01:21:51.937
Kieran Hebden: I was like, it sounds great.

01:21:51.957 –> 01:21:53.317
Kieran Hebden: I was like really, really happy.

01:21:53.937 –> 01:21:55.057
Kieran Hebden: Nothing needed to be done.

01:21:55.077 –> 01:21:56.577
Kieran Hebden: And it was just there.

01:21:57.057 –> 01:22:00.517
Kieran Hebden: It was just like very, very little work went into it.

01:22:00.537 –> 01:22:01.537
Kieran Hebden: It just came together.

01:22:01.557 –> 01:22:02.717
Kieran Hebden: It sounded good.

01:22:03.317 –> 01:22:04.857
Kieran Hebden: And people ask me about it all the time.

01:22:04.877 –> 01:22:07.877
Kieran Hebden: They’re like, oh, you only use this really like little kick drum on it.

01:22:07.897 –> 01:22:10.137
Kieran Hebden: That’s such an unusual thing to have this like little kick.

01:22:10.797 –> 01:22:12.917
Kieran Hebden: People are always going for the heaviest kick they can.

01:22:12.937 –> 01:22:16.297
Kieran Hebden: And I was just like, I just didn’t even think about any of it.

01:22:16.317 –> 01:22:20.557
Kieran Hebden: I was just sort of like, it’s just these are the sounds I just chose in this quick moment.

01:22:20.637 –> 01:22:20.917
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:22:21.097 –> 01:22:23.857
John Kennedy: And the fills, you’re not adjusting anything.

01:22:23.877 –> 01:22:25.897
John Kennedy: You’re just kind of taking something and dropping it in.

01:22:26.157 –> 01:22:28.557
Kieran Hebden: The little drum fills you hear are in that.

01:22:29.737 –> 01:22:34.357
Kieran Hebden: This drum machine recording is quite long, you know, so that’s got the variation in it.

01:22:37.757 –> 01:22:39.177
Kieran Hebden: So this is just the drum machine.

01:22:46.896 –> 01:22:56.196
Kieran Hebden: Well, it’s just a long bit of audio, and it’s me just playing on the drum machine, so I’m just opening the decay on the hi-hat all the time, like getting that sound.

01:22:56.896 –> 01:23:01.516
Kieran Hebden: And yeah, I recorded this ages and ages ago with no particular sort of purpose.

01:23:02.416 –> 01:23:06.876
Kieran Hebden: And it was, this was 128 ppm, it says, when it was recorded, so I’ve had to speed it up a lot.

01:23:06.896 –> 01:23:14.216
Kieran Hebden: So it’s not great quality, you know, you can hear that it doesn’t sound like a really nicely recorded drum machine.

01:23:14.356 –> 01:23:16.476
Kieran Hebden: It doesn’t have any, like, weight to it.

01:23:17.376 –> 01:23:31.136
Kieran Hebden: But then combined with the, with the kick and the other drums, and the other drums are just on their own in like a drum rack.

01:23:32.856 –> 01:23:37.476
Kieran Hebden: Very, very simple, just like offbeat hi-hat.

01:23:39.176 –> 01:23:40.556
Kieran Hebden: Some sort of snare sort of thing.

01:23:41.656 –> 01:23:43.756
Kieran Hebden: I’ve just thrown them in, I’ve just put like swing on it.

01:23:43.916 –> 01:23:45.436
Kieran Hebden: It was all just like boom, boom, boom.

01:23:45.796 –> 01:23:46.056
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:23:46.076 –> 01:23:47.836
Kieran Hebden: Here’s the idea.

01:23:49.116 –> 01:23:57.736
Kieran Hebden: And they have, they’ve got a little bit of EQ, like there’s no compressors on anything, there’s no distortion, there’s no effects on anything.

01:23:58.216 –> 01:24:01.456
Kieran Hebden: It’s just these few raw sounds, a few presets, and-

01:24:01.476 –> 01:24:02.796
John Kennedy: Do you adjust the panning?

01:24:02.816 –> 01:24:03.956
John Kennedy: A little bit of EQ.

01:24:03.976 –> 01:24:04.636
John Kennedy: Anything like that?

01:24:04.976 –> 01:24:06.736
Kieran Hebden: Let’s look, did I pan anything?

01:24:07.836 –> 01:24:08.156
Kieran Hebden: No.

01:24:09.656 –> 01:24:11.796
Kieran Hebden: Every single sound’s just in the center as it was.

01:24:12.376 –> 01:24:17.876
Kieran Hebden: There’s nothing, because the preset sounds, that bass sound is very wide.

01:24:18.636 –> 01:24:24.016
Kieran Hebden: So it’s good that everything else is just in the middle, because then when the bass comes in, it’s just super wide and sounds exciting.

01:24:24.756 –> 01:24:29.916
Kieran Hebden: It’s those simple things, when you hear it on a big system, it’s like cuts through everything else.

01:24:29.956 –> 01:24:35.456
Kieran Hebden: And then, so after I played it at Lost Village, I was like, I’m on something here, and I gave it to a few people.

01:24:35.476 –> 01:24:40.736
Kieran Hebden: One of the people who had it early was Ben UFO, and he was playing it at shows, and he was like, oh, the reaction of this is crazy.

01:24:41.276 –> 01:24:51.216
Kieran Hebden: And the first time he played it at Warehouse Projects, loads of people all sending me this video of the song being played at Warehouse Projects, and the crowd, like nobody’s ever heard it, and they’re absolutely freaking out.

01:24:51.776 –> 01:25:04.256
Kieran Hebden: And there’s this guy called Rich there, who’s one of the people who runs it, and he got in contact with me, he sent me this message, he was like, it’s like this new record of yours, it’s like when that was played, it sounded like it was being beamed down from space.

01:25:05.356 –> 01:25:09.736
Kieran Hebden: It just sounded so different to everything else, and that bass sound came in and everything.

01:25:10.336 –> 01:25:11.576
Kieran Hebden: I loved getting that message.

01:25:11.596 –> 01:25:14.236
Kieran Hebden: I was like, God, that is the ultimate compliment.

01:25:14.256 –> 01:25:16.156
Kieran Hebden: It sounded like it was being beamed down from space.

01:25:16.176 –> 01:25:18.376
Kieran Hebden: That’s brilliant.

01:25:18.396 –> 01:25:23.816
Kieran Hebden: I think it is because it’s very, very simple.

01:25:23.836 –> 01:25:35.376
Kieran Hebden: The sounds are just there, just allowed to shine and it hadn’t been mixed in a similar way to anything else that was coming out around the time, so it did sound very different.

01:25:36.696 –> 01:25:40.096
John Kennedy: I love the fact that you just created it in the moment.

01:25:40.116 –> 01:25:43.396
John Kennedy: But you’re just enjoying the creation of it as well.

01:25:43.856 –> 01:25:46.716
John Kennedy: In a way, what you’re suggesting is that that doesn’t happen every time.

01:25:46.736 –> 01:25:49.556
John Kennedy: This time, you did it and it turned out well.

01:25:49.576 –> 01:25:49.876
Kieran Hebden: Yeah.

01:25:49.896 –> 01:26:00.756
Kieran Hebden: It’s just one of those wonderful moments where everything just falls into place instantly without having to do anything like the song, the mix and everything is like, wow.

01:26:00.896 –> 01:26:20.496
Kieran Hebden: I’m sure all musicians who’ve made music over a long period of time, there are these few moments where they had that incredible thing where it just all fell into place and they look back on it and think like, whoa, that’s so crazy that we did that.

01:26:20.516 –> 01:26:32.936
Kieran Hebden: Especially if you’re working with other musicians and you have a moment where you’re all connected in this certain way, you’re able to experience that euphoria together of being like, whoa, this really happened in that moment.

01:26:32.956 –> 01:26:35.436
Kieran Hebden: But maybe a lot of the time you don’t realize it later on as well.

01:26:35.816 –> 01:26:43.556
Kieran Hebden: Like where you look back, that thing in that Beatles film where you watch Paul McCartney just writing, I think it’s like get back or something like that.

01:26:43.576 –> 01:26:44.856
Kieran Hebden: It’s always fiddling around.

01:26:44.876 –> 01:26:49.216
Kieran Hebden: It’s all suddenly coming together and he’s like, oh, he’s just suddenly got it.

01:26:49.276 –> 01:26:55.156
Kieran Hebden: But those moments where it all suddenly happens are so great.

01:26:55.176 –> 01:26:59.536
John Kennedy: Recently, you’ve been collaborating with people who also work in this field.

01:27:00.336 –> 01:27:02.856
John Kennedy: You’ve mentioned Fred again, you mentioned Sonny Skrillex.

01:27:04.016 –> 01:27:10.476
John Kennedy: When you’ve come together and collaborated, do you all go into a room together or are you just sending things over?

01:27:10.496 –> 01:27:12.356
Kieran Hebden: We’re usually in a room together.

01:27:12.576 –> 01:27:16.456
John Kennedy: Because I get the sense that there’s this sense of fun about it.

01:27:16.836 –> 01:27:20.516
Kieran Hebden: I like to be working with other people in a room usually if I can.

01:27:20.716 –> 01:27:32.216
Kieran Hebden: It’s awkward sometimes with electronic music in a situation where you’ve got too many people who do the same thing, but with the three of us compliment each other really well, I think.

01:27:33.136 –> 01:27:36.936
Kieran Hebden: Fred is such a good songwriter and understands.

01:27:37.176 –> 01:27:39.396
Kieran Hebden: We’re talking about arrangement and stuff like that.

01:27:39.416 –> 01:27:46.716
Kieran Hebden: He’s so good at understanding writing a pop song and stuff in a way that I don’t really know much about.

01:27:47.776 –> 01:27:51.876
Kieran Hebden: Sunny is able to create sound and mixes and impact on things.

01:27:52.776 –> 01:27:55.616
Kieran Hebden: Andy’s a good songwriter as well.

01:27:56.436 –> 01:28:03.596
Kieran Hebden: They both bring things that I don’t necessarily totally know how to do, and then I must be bringing things to them that they don’t totally.

01:28:03.616 –> 01:28:07.256
Kieran Hebden: I’ll finish one of these tracks and then they’re saying to me, how the hell have you made this?

01:28:07.276 –> 01:28:08.816
Kieran Hebden: What’s going on?

01:28:08.836 –> 01:28:11.536
Kieran Hebden: Looking wonder at each other of how these things happen.

01:28:12.056 –> 01:28:18.656
Kieran Hebden: Then when you all come together and you’re able to just do your bits, that can be really, really fun sometimes.

01:28:19.116 –> 01:28:27.196
Kieran Hebden: Sometimes it’s hard to get things finished though when you’ve got more people around and it’s hard to declare something done and walk away.

01:28:28.056 –> 01:28:30.936
Kieran Hebden: I’m very much like I’m into finishing things.

01:28:30.956 –> 01:28:37.936
Kieran Hebden: I’m into tracks getting done and finished and released and not over-labored and all that stuff and walking away.

01:28:37.956 –> 01:28:39.516
Kieran Hebden: So that’s a tough thing with collaboration.

01:28:39.856 –> 01:28:46.556
Kieran Hebden: I’ve just been working as guitar player, William Tyler, and we’ve did all these studio sessions recording an album.

01:28:47.176 –> 01:28:47.816
Kieran Hebden: That’s fine.

01:28:47.836 –> 01:28:49.936
Kieran Hebden: We’ve just finished that recently.

01:28:49.956 –> 01:28:58.776
Kieran Hebden: It’s just a totally different way of working, having somebody else involved and bringing you.

01:28:58.796 –> 01:29:00.196
Kieran Hebden: I make so much music on my own.

01:29:01.296 –> 01:29:02.636
Kieran Hebden: It’s a very different sort of thing.

01:29:03.356 –> 01:29:04.856
Kieran Hebden: It’s not better and it’s not worse.

01:29:04.876 –> 01:29:05.516
Kieran Hebden: It’s just different.

01:29:07.156 –> 01:29:10.256
John Kennedy: We have got a load of questions from our patrons on Patreon.

01:29:10.276 –> 01:29:13.716
John Kennedy: We also have some questions that we always ask everybody who comes on Tapenotes.

01:29:14.596 –> 01:29:22.896
John Kennedy: Maybe we’ll round up looking at your pager with another blast of it from somewhere that we might not have heard yet, and then we can get into those questions.

01:30:48.787 –> 01:30:53.447
John Kennedy: Kieran Hebden, Four Tet, do those kind of tracks have a shelf life, do you think, Kieran?

01:30:53.847 –> 01:31:00.647
John Kennedy: You know, you create them on the spur of the moment, you share them out, you know, for those moments that you’re looking ahead to playing at.

01:31:01.047 –> 01:31:06.467
John Kennedy: Does that mean you’ve got another festival booking, you have to come up with another new looking at your pager?

01:31:07.467 –> 01:31:13.667
Kieran Hebden: I always want to be moving on, I think regardless of whatever, I know the crowd or anything is going on.

01:31:14.127 –> 01:31:19.927
Kieran Hebden: Like there’s lots of instances where people are being like, oh my God, I came to see you, didn’t play any of these songs I really wanted to hear.

01:31:20.627 –> 01:31:23.007
Kieran Hebden: But I’m sort of like, you got to keep moving.

01:31:23.207 –> 01:31:27.087
Kieran Hebden: You know, like I don’t think things, I’ll come back to it when I’m ready.

01:31:27.107 –> 01:31:31.347
Kieran Hebden: I don’t think in terms of too much things, it’s sort of shelf life for the audience.

01:31:31.367 –> 01:31:36.147
Kieran Hebden: But for me creatively, it can’t be stagnant at any point, you know?

01:31:36.167 –> 01:31:40.847
Kieran Hebden: And if you’ve come now and you weren’t there at the time, you’ve missed it.

01:31:42.107 –> 01:31:43.487
Kieran Hebden: This sort of thing, like it was like that.

01:31:43.827 –> 01:31:47.887
Kieran Hebden: You know, I hear about Miles Davis or whatever and all these people just kept moving, you know?

01:31:47.907 –> 01:31:52.727
Kieran Hebden: Like, and I really look back at people like that and the sort of music they left behind.

01:31:53.227 –> 01:31:54.767
Kieran Hebden: And I’m like, that’s a strong thing.

01:31:54.787 –> 01:32:00.767
Kieran Hebden: Like maybe it’s going to irritate, maybe some people are disappointed that they missed it, but like it’s the way it needs to be, I think.

01:32:01.187 –> 01:32:01.467
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:32:02.407 –> 01:32:07.667
John Kennedy: So as I mentioned right at the beginning, that you have been one of the most requested artists to have on Tapenote.

01:32:07.687 –> 01:32:11.527
John Kennedy: So we’ve got a lot of questions from Patreon that I want to go through.

01:32:11.707 –> 01:32:19.367
John Kennedy: Nick Webb has got in touch to say, what does he think would be the best change that most producers could make to write better music?

01:32:20.147 –> 01:33:02.007
Kieran Hebden: Oh, to be a better, I think that thing I saw about earlier about really focusing on the idea of arrangement and the structure of the music you make, I think that should be a real focus for people with their production, is to just be really thinking about the song as a whole and what narrative is being achieved throughout the piece of music and what emotional moments are there and all these things to really give way more weight to that as being the primary objective before fussing too much about what kick drum we’re going to use and what plugins are we going to use and is everything compressed?

01:33:02.027 –> 01:33:10.367
Kieran Hebden: And I think people imagine that I’m working on stuff and I get asked these questions like, what’s your plugin chain on this and that and everything?

01:33:10.387 –> 01:33:13.447
Kieran Hebden: Like I was showing on the sessions, most of the stuff, there’s just nothing.

01:33:13.467 –> 01:33:14.547
Kieran Hebden: There’s no plugins on anything.

01:33:14.567 –> 01:33:17.327
Kieran Hebden: I’ve just chosen a sound and this is pretty good and it’s working.

01:33:18.027 –> 01:33:22.147
Kieran Hebden: It’s only when I get into bad problems of, like, oh, the kick drum’s not working.

01:33:22.167 –> 01:33:23.727
Kieran Hebden: I’m having to find a way to fix it.

01:33:24.107 –> 01:33:26.287
Kieran Hebden: But ideally you’re doing as little as possible.

01:33:26.307 –> 01:33:29.847
Kieran Hebden: You know, like I pretty much never want to put a compressor on anything.

01:33:29.867 –> 01:33:33.467
Kieran Hebden: Like if I have to put a compressor on something, it’s to deal with a problem usually.

01:33:33.487 –> 01:33:39.787
Kieran Hebden: And that’s like, but mainly on everything to be as dynamic as possible and open and natural sounding.

01:33:40.727 –> 01:33:48.827
Kieran Hebden: And, you know, loads of my favorite recordings ever, like acoustic instruments, you know, to hear, to just hear like an acoustic, hear Nick Drake do Pink Moon.

01:33:48.847 –> 01:33:50.347
Kieran Hebden: It’s like an acoustic guitar and a voice.

01:33:50.347 –> 01:33:51.627
Kieran Hebden: I’m like, this is the pinnacle.

01:33:51.647 –> 01:33:59.567
Kieran Hebden: Like it’s, you know, just a truly mind blowing performance, like perfectly captured with the true sound there.

01:33:59.587 –> 01:34:20.567
Kieran Hebden: You know, like I think I’m sort of applying that sort of, even though I’m making music that’s so totally and utterly different, I’m still thinking about Pink Moon when I’m mixing one of my like club records or whatever being like, remember that that’s the best possible sound and you need to try and keep that level of dynamics and heart in it and stuff, you know?

01:34:20.767 –> 01:34:22.087
John Kennedy: Yeah, that’s really interesting.

01:34:22.647 –> 01:34:30.087
John Kennedy: Nick Yorko says that he’d love to hear about your mindset when it comes to overproducing and shaping an idea into its clearest form.

01:34:30.767 –> 01:34:56.327
Kieran Hebden: Well, overproducing in a negative way, like I’ve definitely have things where work on something too much and it starts to lose its intention and gets lost and it just ends up being a sort of exercise and somehow of like me trying to get a bunch of sounds to work together actually just don’t really work together and those tracks usually end up not being released.

01:34:56.347 –> 01:35:10.847
Kieran Hebden: You know, like I can just sense when something’s taking like loads and loads of work, but then there’s lots of things where you have to finish something like you remix something like, and you push yourself through that and try and find a way for it to connect.

01:35:10.947 –> 01:35:14.087
Kieran Hebden: And there are elements of it that are good.

01:35:15.047 –> 01:35:21.627
Kieran Hebden: Whatever mess you’ve got yourself into with overproducing, you need to be able to like take a step back and try and undo it and get it back into shape.

01:35:22.247 –> 01:35:33.767
Kieran Hebden: Like, and I’m quite into, other people come to me and be like, I’ve got this song and I’m struggling with it and this is where it’s at, but I know it’s not right.

01:35:33.767 –> 01:35:36.767
Kieran Hebden: I know there’s this problem and I’ve worked on it for months and months and months.

01:35:37.567 –> 01:35:43.087
Kieran Hebden: And sometimes, yeah, when you bring somebody else into that point and be like, what should I do here to sort that out?

01:35:43.747 –> 01:35:47.347
Kieran Hebden: And everybody says this, but it’s often, you just need to simplify everything, you know?

01:35:47.767 –> 01:35:48.027
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:35:49.127 –> 01:35:49.747
John Kennedy: Kailin St.

01:35:49.767 –> 01:35:54.607
John Kennedy: Martin says, One reason that your live shows are so engaging is that you aren’t bound to any genre.

01:35:54.627 –> 01:35:58.427
John Kennedy: You’ll bounce from punk rock to Selena Gomez to drummer bass and everything in between.

01:35:58.687 –> 01:36:05.007
John Kennedy: How much of your set list do you decide ahead of time versus choosing songs on the fly based on the energy in the room?

01:36:05.647 –> 01:36:11.207
John Kennedy: So say I’m playing somewhere and the set is gonna be like two hours or something like that.

01:36:11.307 –> 01:36:19.287
Kieran Hebden: I’ll put together a folder of music beforehand that’s maybe got like five to six hours of music in it, a whole bunch of things.

01:36:19.847 –> 01:36:23.127
Kieran Hebden: There’ll be a handful of things that I’m like, I really definitely wanna try and play this tonight.

01:36:23.147 –> 01:36:23.967
Kieran Hebden: I wanna find a way.

01:36:24.667 –> 01:36:29.227
Kieran Hebden: And loads of things that I’ll be like, maybe I’ll play this, who knows?

01:36:30.027 –> 01:36:33.687
Kieran Hebden: And then when I’m doing the show, it’s not planned at all.

01:36:33.707 –> 01:36:42.407
Kieran Hebden: I just like probably about 15 minutes before I go on, I’m sort of there trying to sense what’s happening and then make a decision in my head, like, all right, I think I’m gonna start like this.

01:36:43.207 –> 01:36:47.867
Kieran Hebden: And if it’s like two hours, I might be thinking, I’m just gonna build up solidly for two hours.

01:36:47.887 –> 01:36:59.687
Kieran Hebden: If it’s like four hours, I might be like, I’m gonna build up for like two and a half hours and then I’m gonna drop it right back down and then I’m gonna really like go for it for another like hour and a half or, I’ll have a vague plans like that in my head.

01:36:59.707 –> 01:37:06.567
Kieran Hebden: I might be thinking forward like 20 or 30 minutes, but a lot of the time and the best times are sort of like really just in the moment.

01:37:06.767 –> 01:37:12.067
Kieran Hebden: I’ve got one track up, I’ve got another one and then I’m suddenly thinking like, oh, I should add this now or whatever.

01:37:12.507 –> 01:37:17.507
Kieran Hebden: Those quirkier moments when you might suddenly hear oh, Selena Gomez comes in or a punk song or something.

01:37:17.527 –> 01:37:26.527
Kieran Hebden: It’ll be like a moment when I feel like I’ve got everybody in the room engaged and they’re sort of locked into the tempo is right for the crowd.

01:37:27.107 –> 01:37:31.847
Kieran Hebden: People are all sort of, it all feels like it’s all coming together and everybody’s quite connected.

01:37:32.207 –> 01:37:40.247
Kieran Hebden: And then I want something to happen that isn’t quite what everybody sort of expected, but creates a moment of excitement for you or whatever.

01:37:40.267 –> 01:37:45.627
Kieran Hebden: You’ve got really sort of clubby moment, suddenly there, suddenly Selena Gomez starts singing or whatever, it’s great.

01:37:46.407 –> 01:37:59.027
Kieran Hebden: Or you’ve built everything up to this pinnacle with intense techno and it’s fast and it’s hard, but everybody’s getting kind of exhausted, you can sense, to then suddenly play minor threat or something like a hardcore record.

01:37:59.427 –> 01:38:08.207
Kieran Hebden: It’s sonically really, really extreme and doesn’t feel like the energy’s going down, but it’s totally refreshing and different in the moment.

01:38:09.287 –> 01:38:10.547
Kieran Hebden: And also I love those things.

01:38:10.587 –> 01:38:19.447
Kieran Hebden: I love it when you come back from like, I went to see this DJ last night and it was like amazing dance music and then in the middle of it, he suddenly played minor threat and everybody went mad.

01:38:19.467 –> 01:38:24.487
Kieran Hebden: Like if you pull it off and it works, that’s the best feeling of all time.

01:38:24.507 –> 01:38:33.027
Kieran Hebden: Like the moments I’ve had where I’ve played something that no one ever, ever thought they were gonna hear that night and it brought everybody together and they had this amazing moment.

01:38:33.907 –> 01:38:38.347
Kieran Hebden: I live for that, it’s absolutely, it’s so fun and so good.

01:38:38.667 –> 01:38:41.727
Kieran Hebden: And it’s such a, for me, it’s such a celebration of me.

01:38:41.727 –> 01:38:49.467
Kieran Hebden: I love music and the best moments of DJing like this, for me feel like the purest of celebration of music.

01:38:49.487 –> 01:38:57.407
Kieran Hebden: Like seeing everybody just like all together be like, oh my God, I’m loving hearing this right now and they all feel the same.

01:38:57.827 –> 01:38:59.067
Kieran Hebden: It’s such a wonderful thing.

01:38:59.827 –> 01:39:00.527
John Kennedy: Yeah, totally.

01:39:01.247 –> 01:39:05.507
John Kennedy: Alna says, I’d like to ask Kieran, what do you think about Latin electronic music?

01:39:05.907 –> 01:39:08.007
John Kennedy: Congrats on Volver with Tiny.

01:39:08.027 –> 01:39:09.547
John Kennedy: It’s an amazing and disruptive piece.

01:39:09.547 –> 01:39:11.067
John Kennedy: I love it.

01:39:11.447 –> 01:39:17.287
Kieran Hebden: So it’s not like an area like I know loads about, not listening to reggaeton stuff.

01:39:17.307 –> 01:39:25.207
Kieran Hebden: Like I’m always excited about stuff coming out of Brazil and the things I hear, but I’m not crazy up to speed with it.

01:39:25.227 –> 01:39:28.167
Kieran Hebden: But when Tiny got in contact, I was like, I love your song.

01:39:28.187 –> 01:39:31.967
Kieran Hebden: He got in contact like three years before the record came out or something.

01:39:31.987 –> 01:39:33.647
Kieran Hebden: I was like, I love this track of yours, Lush.

01:39:34.127 –> 01:39:38.207
Kieran Hebden: He was like, I just want to know if I was ever to sample it, would that be okay with you?

01:39:38.227 –> 01:39:41.707
Kieran Hebden: I don’t want to start making something with it if you wouldn’t clear the sample.

01:39:41.727 –> 01:39:43.287
Kieran Hebden: So I was like, totally.

01:39:43.307 –> 01:39:45.887
Kieran Hebden: You can sample anything of mine you want.

01:39:45.907 –> 01:39:46.527
Kieran Hebden: That’d be great.

01:39:47.267 –> 01:39:49.527
Kieran Hebden: And then didn’t hear anything of ages.

01:39:49.627 –> 01:39:53.327
Kieran Hebden: And then he came back and he was like, I’ve made something with this.

01:39:53.407 –> 01:39:54.307
Kieran Hebden: I’ve got something.

01:39:54.327 –> 01:39:56.627
Kieran Hebden: And then he’s friendly with Skrillex.

01:39:56.727 –> 01:40:03.807
Kieran Hebden: And Skrillex heard it and was like, I’ve got this idea for like an outro on it where it sort of turns into some more sort of drum and bass sort of thing.

01:40:04.247 –> 01:40:08.847
Kieran Hebden: And then the three of us were all, like I didn’t do anything.

01:40:08.867 –> 01:40:12.087
Kieran Hebden: They just sampled my record and they made that out of it.

01:40:12.107 –> 01:40:14.907
Kieran Hebden: And then suddenly they were like, oh, we brought this vocalist on.

01:40:15.687 –> 01:40:20.987
Kieran Hebden: And suddenly it was this big, like sort of like pop sounding Latin pop record.

01:40:21.007 –> 01:40:23.007
Kieran Hebden: And I was like, whoa, that’s a real curve ball.

01:40:23.027 –> 01:40:26.807
Kieran Hebden: Like not what I expect to be involved with, but yeah, I loved it.

01:40:26.827 –> 01:40:28.867
Kieran Hebden: I love what they did with it.

01:40:29.027 –> 01:40:31.527
Kieran Hebden: I don’t speak Spanish at all.

01:40:32.287 –> 01:40:33.607
Kieran Hebden: So I don’t even know what the song is about.

01:40:37.627 –> 01:40:39.267
John Kennedy: Maybe you’ll find out one day.

01:40:40.927 –> 01:40:42.007
John Kennedy: This is from James Ennis.

01:40:42.647 –> 01:40:49.027
John Kennedy: I’m curious about how you put away time to create as an artist, the older, more successful you get, the more life around you builds.

01:40:49.047 –> 01:40:56.747
John Kennedy: Do you put pressure on yourself to always be writing and working, or do you go in waves and just not worry about long periods of not being creative?

01:40:57.087 –> 01:41:02.147
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, I don’t really worry about anything very much, like in those sort of terms.

01:41:02.987 –> 01:41:10.227
Kieran Hebden: I think being older, actually, I’ve sort of relaxed into it a bit, being sort of feeling like I don’t really feel like I’ve got anything much to prove anymore.

01:41:10.667 –> 01:41:12.487
Kieran Hebden: I’ve put out a lot of records, done it.

01:41:12.507 –> 01:41:14.527
Kieran Hebden: It’s like I feel really, really proud of it.

01:41:14.547 –> 01:41:21.227
Kieran Hebden: It’s like solid, like my goal was like, it’d be so cool to have a really solid catalog, like a good body of work.

01:41:21.907 –> 01:41:22.907
Kieran Hebden: And that’s there now.

01:41:22.987 –> 01:41:26.887
Kieran Hebden: And I think it’s made me very sort of relaxed.

01:41:27.507 –> 01:41:30.467
Kieran Hebden: I think that’s why I spent three years on this new record.

01:41:30.487 –> 01:41:32.187
Kieran Hebden: It’s like there’s no rush at all.

01:41:32.207 –> 01:41:33.467
Kieran Hebden: It doesn’t matter particularly.

01:41:34.307 –> 01:41:36.747
Kieran Hebden: So yeah, I don’t sort of worry about it.

01:41:36.767 –> 01:41:42.207
Kieran Hebden: And that’s quite sort of like, that’s good and sort of liberating, I think, but it just doesn’t…

01:41:42.987 –> 01:41:46.007
Kieran Hebden: I mean, obviously, I want to be engaged.

01:41:46.267 –> 01:41:48.527
Kieran Hebden: So I’m not the sort of person that’s lying around.

01:41:48.547 –> 01:41:49.827
Kieran Hebden: I’ve never had a problem.

01:41:49.847 –> 01:41:51.427
Kieran Hebden: I’m never somebody who’s like, oh, I’m bored.

01:41:51.627 –> 01:41:54.447
Kieran Hebden: This is just not really happening in my life.

01:41:54.467 –> 01:42:01.987
Kieran Hebden: So maybe that’s why I don’t worry about it because I never ever have to think to myself like, oh, I wish I could be inspired to do something.

01:42:03.147 –> 01:42:05.967
Kieran Hebden: I’m always ready to do something if I’ve got the energy.

01:42:06.507 –> 01:42:09.587
Kieran Hebden: My limitation is actually having to sleep and getting tired and stuff.

01:42:09.867 –> 01:42:10.167
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:42:10.207 –> 01:42:12.127
John Kennedy: And you seem to put yourself in the fray.

01:42:12.167 –> 01:42:15.287
John Kennedy: You take these bookings that take you to places all over the world.

01:42:15.527 –> 01:42:15.927
Kieran Hebden: Oh, yeah.

01:42:15.927 –> 01:42:22.587
John Kennedy: And you put yourselves in environments from big stages with thousands of people to tiny little rooms with a hundred people.

01:42:22.607 –> 01:42:24.687
Kieran Hebden: Because I just want to experience it all, I suppose.

01:42:24.847 –> 01:42:34.887
Kieran Hebden: I think when I’m doing shows and choosing bookings and doing everything at the moment, it’s all about what if I haven’t done and what would be an interesting experience?

01:42:34.907 –> 01:42:36.467
Kieran Hebden: What would it feel like to do this?

01:42:38.107 –> 01:42:42.327
Kieran Hebden: A lot of the shows I do, I’m trying to do the things that I’ve never had chance to do.

01:42:42.347 –> 01:42:45.727
Kieran Hebden: I was getting to do a few festivals and stuff this year that I’ve never done before.

01:42:46.267 –> 01:42:57.127
Kieran Hebden: The sort of thing is, if I’m booking a show, if I can imagine what the whole experience of it’s going to be like, going there, doing the show, all this, sort of less interested, I’m just like, hang on, I can imagine all of this.

01:42:57.147 –> 01:43:01.167
Kieran Hebden: I’m just repeating myself, whereas going into something more sort of unknown.

01:43:01.647 –> 01:43:05.227
Kieran Hebden: And I still like, I do a lot of shows at the moment where I’m probably nervous before.

01:43:05.247 –> 01:43:09.387
Kieran Hebden: I’m like way out of my comfort zone being like, playing at EDC right now.

01:43:09.407 –> 01:43:10.507
Kieran Hebden: Am I going to ruin this?

01:43:10.567 –> 01:43:12.227
Kieran Hebden: Like, is it going to be a disaster?

01:43:12.247 –> 01:43:14.587
Kieran Hebden: And I’m pretty keen to get it right, you know?

01:43:14.607 –> 01:43:18.627
Kieran Hebden: So I put pressure on myself, you know, to do well.

01:43:19.127 –> 01:43:21.307
Kieran Hebden: So I suppose, like, I’m competitive.

01:43:21.567 –> 01:43:23.027
Kieran Hebden: I’m quite competitive like that.

01:43:23.047 –> 01:43:29.347
Kieran Hebden: So with myself and all these things like, and I feel like that’s quite a strong driving force behind things.

01:43:29.567 –> 01:43:30.827
John Kennedy: Yeah, very interesting.

01:43:31.567 –> 01:43:34.487
John Kennedy: Back to the questions we ask everybody who comes on Tapenotes.

01:43:34.507 –> 01:43:44.367
John Kennedy: The first of them is about a piece of tech or equipment or an instrument that you can’t live without or that you feel is fundamental to what you’re doing.

01:43:44.387 –> 01:43:48.627
John Kennedy: It could be associated with one project or it could just be a whole thing.

01:43:49.627 –> 01:44:01.107
Kieran Hebden: I actually think the thing that I get the most from and the thing that is at the heart of everything and makes everything better is having really great hi-fi system.

01:44:01.147 –> 01:44:07.747
Kieran Hebden: I’ve got like a really next level stereo setup and I listen to records in a really, really deep way.

01:44:07.767 –> 01:44:16.527
Kieran Hebden: I’m the sort of person that’s buying like four or five different pressings of a certain album and comparing them all to be like, what’s the best one sound that’s ever existed?

01:44:16.527 –> 01:44:21.347
Kieran Hebden: Like hunting down, oh my God, I have to get the original French pressing of this one.

01:44:21.367 –> 01:44:23.807
Kieran Hebden: I’ve heard it’s better than like the other one.

01:44:23.827 –> 01:44:30.827
Kieran Hebden: I want to hear, you know, when I was talking about Nick Drake, Pink Moon or whatever, I was like, I want to hear Nick Drake, Pink Moon in the greatest possible sound that has ever existed.

01:44:31.047 –> 01:44:33.567
Kieran Hebden: I’m on like a mission to find that.

01:44:34.047 –> 01:45:00.587
Kieran Hebden: And when I listen to music with that level of detail in like a really deep way like that, I think I get a level of knowledge and inspiration simultaneously that serve me so well in everything else I do in terms of like the technicals, like mixing, understanding, like how to get a song really sort of like three-dimensional sounding or how to create certain effects.

01:45:00.607 –> 01:45:15.927
Kieran Hebden: When you hear something, like when you’re in a proper recording studio and you listen to things, you really hear all the individual sounds and everything, like hearing music to that level, I find is a really, really powerful thing, like great sound systems, great clubs, all those sorts of things.

01:45:16.467 –> 01:45:25.927
Kieran Hebden: So the thing that I think is the best, most important piece of equipment for me is a way to listen to music for pleasure in the best possible way I can.

01:45:25.947 –> 01:45:25.987
David: Yeah.

01:45:26.007 –> 01:45:27.447
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

01:45:27.887 –> 01:45:30.407
John Kennedy: We often wonder about process, routine.

01:45:31.027 –> 01:45:34.327
John Kennedy: Do you have one that facilitates creativity?

01:45:34.347 –> 01:45:40.827
John Kennedy: I mean, it sounds like you kind of go with whatever is happening and if there’s a chance to lie on the bed and get your laptop out.

01:45:40.847 –> 01:45:55.127
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, it’s just like I just sort of live life and let’s try and find these moments of like downtime or I don’t think about it too much because I think it’s going to serve me best if I enjoy making music, if I never feel like it’s a chore or whatever.

01:45:55.147 –> 01:45:59.007
Kieran Hebden: So I don’t put that pressure on myself to be like, I need to be in the studio today.

01:45:59.027 –> 01:46:04.547
Kieran Hebden: I’ve set aside this time and these are days when I have to work on music.

01:46:04.567 –> 01:46:06.987
Kieran Hebden: I don’t have any of that at all.

01:46:07.007 –> 01:46:16.847
Kieran Hebden: It’s more like, oh, I’ve just had nice tea and toast and just watched an episode of Friends and maybe I’ll try and make a little techno now.

01:46:17.767 –> 01:46:22.627
Kieran Hebden: That’ll be a fun little thing before I go out for dinner with my daughter or whatever.

01:46:22.647 –> 01:46:30.187
Kieran Hebden: That might be an afternoon and it’s great, but it doesn’t matter at the same time.

01:46:30.627 –> 01:46:34.187
Kieran Hebden: The best things are made in all sorts of strange moments.

01:46:34.247 –> 01:46:40.427
Kieran Hebden: I just can’t, unless I’m collaborating with somebody where it’s like, let’s get in the studio, you’re on other people’s time and stuff.

01:46:40.867 –> 01:46:46.847
Kieran Hebden: Maybe that’s good as well because it puts pressure on me, but on my own, I don’t worry about anything.

01:46:47.287 –> 01:46:48.367
John Kennedy: Yeah, fantastic.

01:46:48.387 –> 01:46:49.647
John Kennedy: What a great state of mind.

01:46:51.707 –> 01:47:30.347
Kieran Hebden: Something I think about a lot is to be making music this long, be in the position I am, and to find a way to actually enjoy it is, I think, a more complicated thing than you might initially assume, or people would understand, very easily get yourself into all trappings of like, oh my God, I’m touring way too much, or I’m exhausted, or I’m not getting time to do these things, I’m messing up my relationships with friends and families, I’m doing all this, I’m like, you know, working with a huge PR team, and now I’ve got deep anxiety because we’re getting trolled on Instagram or whatever, and all this sort of thing.

01:47:30.367 –> 01:47:49.447
Kieran Hebden: Like, I’ve said something, you know, stupid, so like all these, get yourself wrapped up in all sorts of problems, and your life can just become like, tangled up in all sorts of anxiety, and all sorts of problems, and to be doing music a long time, and be able to just really truly enjoy it, and get happiness from it.

01:47:49.467 –> 01:47:53.487
Kieran Hebden: Like, you have to be pretty strong, and sort of militant about like, this is what I will do.

01:47:53.507 –> 01:47:58.047
Kieran Hebden: I mean, this is, you were in here being like, what, this is the only interview you’re doing, like what’s going on and everything.

01:47:58.547 –> 01:48:01.667
Kieran Hebden: And I’m like, it’s not really that important.

01:48:01.687 –> 01:48:02.667
Kieran Hebden: I do loads of interviews.

01:48:02.687 –> 01:48:09.227
Kieran Hebden: It’s important that I do a couple of really thorough things here and there that sort of document, like what I’m about.

01:48:09.527 –> 01:48:21.227
Kieran Hebden: Like, I like the idea of the story being existing for people who want to follow, but like, I really care about promoting my record in any sort of traditional sense at this point.

01:48:21.267 –> 01:48:24.047
Kieran Hebden: Like I do care about it, but it’s more important.

01:48:24.067 –> 01:48:31.347
Kieran Hebden: I’ve weighed it up and it’s just like more important I’d actually make music or see people or something.

01:48:31.367 –> 01:48:44.927
Kieran Hebden: Like it’s just finding this balance in everything, you know, and like, and the more I look after me being just keeping things sane and happy and everything, actually everything just becomes sort of more and more successful because people want to work with you.

01:48:44.967 –> 01:48:45.947
Kieran Hebden: They want to book you and stuff.

01:48:45.967 –> 01:48:48.607
Kieran Hebden: They’re like, that guy seems like he’s really into it still.

01:48:48.627 –> 01:48:49.567
Kieran Hebden: He’s really enjoying it.

01:48:49.587 –> 01:48:58.207
Kieran Hebden: He’s authentic about it and everything because I’m trying so hard to like, so cautious to never get bogged down in any nonsense, you know.

01:48:58.427 –> 01:48:59.207
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

01:48:59.227 –> 01:49:17.867
John Kennedy: And that kind of links in to what we always ask people at the end of our conversation is about advice and whether you have any advice to pass on, something that you might picked up along the way that somebody once said to you or something that has been a hard-earned lesson that you feel, no, everybody should be aware of this.

01:49:18.467 –> 01:49:20.467
Kieran Hebden: I think I’m going to mention the listening again.

01:49:20.487 –> 01:49:33.807
Kieran Hebden: I think the thing that, I think listening to a lot of music and really exploring it and doing that level of investigation of really understanding where things have come from.

01:49:33.827 –> 01:49:48.067
Kieran Hebden: To listen to a, if you listen to a current record now that samples an old nineties record, and then you check out the old nineties record, find out that samples like an old soul record for the drum break or whatever.

01:49:48.087 –> 01:49:53.387
Kieran Hebden: And then you go listen to the old soul record and then you find out who the drummer was who played that drum break.

01:49:53.707 –> 01:49:55.547
Kieran Hebden: And it’s like, oh, it’s Bernard Purdy or whatever.

01:49:55.567 –> 01:49:58.707
Kieran Hebden: And then you look on Wikipedia and check out all the other records he made.

01:49:59.207 –> 01:50:02.927
Kieran Hebden: And then you’re like, oh, he worked with this producer a lot and you check out what that producer did.

01:50:03.647 –> 01:50:15.567
Kieran Hebden: To listen to music in that way and explore it and study it, I think is hugely valuable in terms of learning how to be a good arranger, a good producer, a good musician.

01:50:15.647 –> 01:50:25.187
Kieran Hebden: Like the more you take in of understanding the sort of like great music that’s out there and the things that came before, it’s so powerful.

01:50:25.447 –> 01:50:27.807
Kieran Hebden: All the, everything’s there, all the information’s there.

01:50:27.827 –> 01:50:38.107
Kieran Hebden: And then if you take everything you learn from that and then combine it with your own ideas and your own emotions and stuff, then you sort of set up to sort of push things forward.

01:50:38.747 –> 01:50:47.747
Kieran Hebden: I think that’s much more useful than spending all your time being like, I’m just gonna be learning what every single thing in Ableton does now for the next few months.

01:50:47.767 –> 01:50:51.927
Kieran Hebden: Like I’m gonna go on an Ableton course and then I’m gonna go on a plugin course.

01:50:52.287 –> 01:50:55.887
Kieran Hebden: Then I’m gonna read every Reddit ever about what everybody’s plugin chain is.

01:50:56.347 –> 01:51:02.987
Kieran Hebden: And then you sit there and you know, all this bizarre technical stuff to create sounds that people already did on other records previously.

01:51:03.707 –> 01:51:11.367
Kieran Hebden: There’s no real ideas and no real ambition to create a piece of music that sits within the canon of great music.

01:51:11.447 –> 01:51:18.407
Kieran Hebden: You know, like, you’ve got to love music as the catalog that already exists to be like, I wanna be part of that.

01:51:18.907 –> 01:51:23.847
Kieran Hebden: And I think that level of ambition of being like, I love all these records.

01:51:23.867 –> 01:51:31.287
Kieran Hebden: I wanna make something that can sit on a shelf alongside all of those things will serve you better than being like, I wanna be so good at Ableton.

01:51:31.307 –> 01:51:32.787
Kieran Hebden: I don’t know what Ableton does.

01:51:32.907 –> 01:51:34.907
Kieran Hebden: Like the new version just came out.

01:51:34.927 –> 01:51:37.847
Kieran Hebden: I haven’t bothered to try any of the new things that are on it.

01:51:38.387 –> 01:51:39.107
Kieran Hebden: I haven’t done anything.

01:51:39.127 –> 01:51:42.247
Kieran Hebden: I’m mainly irritated that they changed the way you look for files.

01:51:43.467 –> 01:51:44.967
Kieran Hebden: And I was like, I should get this.

01:51:45.767 –> 01:51:53.367
Kieran Hebden: But the chances of me actually ever spending the time to learn how to use any of it are minimal because I’m just like, it’s not worth it.

01:51:53.947 –> 01:51:57.867
Kieran Hebden: And I’ll get a synth, I’ll try all the presets out.

01:51:58.047 –> 01:52:02.487
Kieran Hebden: Once I’ve used all the presets, I won’t think, all right, I should use the synth to create my own sounds.

01:52:02.947 –> 01:52:08.687
Kieran Hebden: We’re like, let’s get a new synth with new presets and see what happens with that.

01:52:08.787 –> 01:52:16.147
Kieran Hebden: It could be anything, but the main thing is to get the ideas going, but actually do the creative bits.

01:52:16.867 –> 01:52:19.047
Kieran Hebden: So yeah, I’m all about that.

01:52:19.207 –> 01:52:22.907
Kieran Hebden: People need to listen to way more music.

01:52:23.007 –> 01:52:30.107
Kieran Hebden: When I’m working with somebody else, it’s such a powerful tool to be able to just reference endless songs all the time.

01:52:30.127 –> 01:52:32.587
Kieran Hebden: And somebody be like, working on something that sounds like this.

01:52:32.607 –> 01:52:38.567
Kieran Hebden: And then I can be like, here are five records from five different decades that all explore similar ideas.

01:52:38.807 –> 01:52:42.267
Kieran Hebden: Let’s look at what the best of some of those things are.

01:52:42.287 –> 01:52:43.407
Kieran Hebden: Maybe we could sample one of them.

01:52:43.427 –> 01:52:45.027
Kieran Hebden: Maybe we could take an idea from this or that.

01:52:45.027 –> 01:52:53.847
Kieran Hebden: I’ve just got that mad amount of record knowledge and stuff sitting there, and it runs through everything.

01:52:54.287 –> 01:52:54.827
John Kennedy: That’s great.

01:52:54.967 –> 01:53:00.847
John Kennedy: And it all started by having a school close to a record shop when you were growing up in some ways.

01:53:00.867 –> 01:53:03.327
John Kennedy: And your dad had an amazing record shop.

01:53:03.347 –> 01:53:04.467
Kieran Hebden: Yeah, he was all about records.

01:53:04.467 –> 01:53:07.047
Kieran Hebden: I was sort of like around records always.

01:53:07.047 –> 01:53:08.347
John Kennedy: Yeah, fantastic.

01:53:08.367 –> 01:53:11.067
John Kennedy: Kieran, thanks so much for spending this time with us.

01:53:11.087 –> 01:53:12.267
John Kennedy: It’s been brilliant to have you here.

01:53:12.747 –> 01:53:17.067
John Kennedy: And we should leave with one more piece of music by Four Tet, another selection from three maybe.

01:53:17.067 –> 01:53:18.287
John Kennedy: What should we go with?

01:53:18.747 –> 01:53:24.647
Kieran Hebden: Well, the last track on the record, three drums, maybe that’s like a lot of the things we were talking about.

01:53:24.667 –> 01:53:35.247
Kieran Hebden: Like that’s also got a load of the old like guitar noise from those old tapes and stuff I was talking about and echoes back to all the like fridge stuff and things like that.

01:53:35.267 –> 01:53:37.947
Kieran Hebden: And the end section, this is the track on the album.

01:53:37.967 –> 01:53:40.287
Kieran Hebden: I said I was doing a lot with like old tape machines and stuff.

01:53:40.567 –> 01:53:44.767
Kieran Hebden: This has got like tape loops and stuff that were done on a four track record.

01:53:44.787 –> 01:53:52.807
Kieran Hebden: A lot of that period early on in the album, we’re sort of experimenting with recording on old four track machines with all hardware.

01:53:52.827 –> 01:53:55.187
Kieran Hebden: Where a lot of that ended up in three drums, you know.

01:53:55.467 –> 01:53:55.847
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:53:56.027 –> 01:53:56.927
John Kennedy: Well, this is it.

01:53:56.987 –> 01:53:58.667
John Kennedy: This is three drums, it’s Four Tet.

01:54:03.387 –> 01:54:08.427
John Kennedy: Thank you for listening, and in particular thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on Patreon.

01:54:08.807 –> 01:54:12.987
John Kennedy: I’m just one part of the team that brings you take notes, and it relies on your support.

01:54:13.287 –> 01:54:20.947
John Kennedy: Access to Patreon includes the full length videos of new episodes where possible, ad free episodes and detailed gear lists among many other things.

01:54:21.247 –> 01:54:24.627
John Kennedy: If you’d like to join, head to the link on our socials or website.

01:54:25.027 –> 01:54:29.967
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01:54:30.187 –> 01:54:33.407
John Kennedy: And on Discord, you can join the growing TakeNotes community.

01:54:33.767 –> 01:54:36.487
John Kennedy: Once again, thank you for listening, until next time, goodbye.