Full Transcript:

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John Kennedy: Hello, welcome to Tape Notes.

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John Kennedy: I hope you’re well.

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John Kennedy: For those longer term Tape Notes listeners, you may be interested to know that this morning, I had a pear for breakfast.

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John Kennedy: It was ripe, it was perfect, and a beautiful way to start the day.

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John Kennedy: Right, we have a new episode for you this week.

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John Kennedy: I caught up with Charli XCX, with producers AG.

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John Kennedy: Cook and George Daniel, to talk about Charli’s new album, Brat.

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John Kennedy: It was so good to hang out with them.

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John Kennedy: Our conversation happened the evening before Brat came out, so it is a real privilege to get to spend so much time at that important juncture with all three of them, before they had to rush off to the first of four launch parties, I think it was.

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John Kennedy: And they did not disappoint.

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John Kennedy: Some of you may have seen the video of the epic walkthrough Charli gave us of 365, and that’s just the start.

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John Kennedy: As I’m sure many of you know, Charli has a reputation for pushing boundaries and is widely regarded as one of the most innovative artists in pop music today.

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John Kennedy: As well as sharing what truly makes something Brat, we were given a deep dive into the production and writing process behind the record.

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John Kennedy: Thanks to the team at Strong Room Studios for hosting the conversation.

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John Kennedy: The full video episode will be up on the Tape It’s Patreon page, and more highlight videos will be coming out on YouTube and Instagram throughout the week.

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John Kennedy: Thank you also to Tape It, who have come on board to partner with us.

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John Kennedy: Tape It is a recording app for iPhone, which has some brilliant features.

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John Kennedy: Among many things, it includes shared mixtapes, the ability to drop markers, and you can also record in stereo.

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John Kennedy: We are all big fans and users of the app at Tape It, so thank you to Tape It and the team for your support.

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John Kennedy: More on them later in the show.

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John Kennedy: But now, without further ado, let’s get started.

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John Kennedy: You Hello and welcome to Tape Notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

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John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

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John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tapenotes is Charli XCX along with producers AG.

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John Kennedy: Cook and George Daniel to talk about how they wrote, recorded and produced the album Brat.

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John Kennedy: Charli XCX is a British singer-songwriter and producer known for her unique blend of hyper-pop, dance, punk and experimental sounds.

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John Kennedy: Inspired by pop icons such as the Spice Girls and Britney Spears, Charli began writing and recording songs of her own aged 14.

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John Kennedy: In 2008, she started posting them on MySpace, where she was discovered by a promoter and began performing at warehouse raves and parties across East London.

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John Kennedy: While taking the time to work with a variety of producers, her rise in the pop industry came with the 2012 hit, I Love It, with Icona Pop.

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John Kennedy: The track became an instant hit, reaching number one in the UK.

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John Kennedy: One year later, her debut studio album, True Romance, arrived on asylum records.

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John Kennedy: Consistently pushing the boundaries of pop with each release, she has since put out a further six studio albums.

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John Kennedy: As well as her hit singles, including Boom Clap and Fancy with Iggy Azalea, her 2020 record, How I’m Feeling Now, was shortlisted for the Mercury Prize and 2022’s Crash Top charts across the globe.

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John Kennedy: As well as co-writing and featuring on tracks from artists including Selena Gomez, Shawn Mendes and many more, in 2024, Charli was awarded the ASCAP Global Impact Award in recognition of her contributions to pop music.

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John Kennedy: Her latest album, Brat, arrived in June 2024, self-described as an album made for the club, the highly anticipated record received critical acclaim and reached number two in the UK charts, cementing Charli XCX as one of the most innovative artists in pop music today.

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John Kennedy: Alex Cook, better known as AG.

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John Kennedy: Cook, is an artist and producer from London.

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John Kennedy: After studying music at Goldsmiths University and releasing tracks with collaborator Danielle Hall, Alex founded PC Music, a record label and art collective curating a new kind of exaggerated pop.

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John Kennedy: Since its foundation, the label has released music from artists including Hannah Diamond and Easy Fun and been a huge influence on both mainstream creators and bedroom producers.

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John Kennedy: While Alex released numerous singles and remixes on PC Music’s compilation albums, his debut solo album didn’t arrive until 2020 when he released the records 7G and Apple, a synthesis of futurist pop and experimental electronic music.

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John Kennedy: The record’s boundaryless approach saw Alex praised as one of the most original producers of the day.

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John Kennedy: Alongside his own music, he has shared his production talents with numerous pop icons, including the likes of Beyonce, Yonsei and Caroline Polichek, among others.

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John Kennedy: Working significantly with Charli XCX since 2016, he has played a pivotal role in shaping her sound.

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John Kennedy: Their partnership has seen him produce a significant amount of her back catalog, including working as executive producer on her studio albums, Charli, How I’m Feeling Now and most recently, Brat.

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John Kennedy: George Daniel is an artist and producer best known for his role as drummer and producer of pop rock band The 1975.

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John Kennedy: It was during his school years that George met fellow bandmates, singer and frontman Matty Healy, guitarist Adam Han and bassist Ross McDonald and after several successful EPs, in 2013 they released their self-titled debut album on Dirty Hit.

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John Kennedy: Now, over a decade on, The 1975 have solidified their status as a global sensation.

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John Kennedy: As well as earning nominations for almost every major music award, all five of their studio albums have top charts around the world, often with George at the helm as producer.

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John Kennedy: Outside of his band responsibilities, George has taken on writing and production roles with artists including Dirty Hit label mates, Rina Sawayama, Beba Dooby and The Japanese House.

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John Kennedy: In 2021, George and Charli collaborated on the single Spinning alongside No Rome.

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John Kennedy: As well as announcing their engagement in 2023, the pair have continued to work together with George producing tracks on both Crash and Brat.

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John Kennedy: Today I’m at Strongroom Studios in Shoreditch and I’m joined by Charli, George and Alex and what better way to start our conversation than by hearing something from the record.

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John Kennedy: This is 360.

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John Kennedy: It is 360 by Charli XCX from the album Brat, and I’m very pleased to say that I am now in the company of Charli XCX.

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John Kennedy: Hello, Charli.

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Charli XCX: Hello, how are you?

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John Kennedy: I’m very well, thank you.

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John Kennedy: It’s great to see you and great to have you here to discuss the making of Brat.

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John Kennedy: And with you, you’ve got two of your friends, A.G.Cook.

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A.G. Cook: Hello, hi.

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John Kennedy: Hello to George Daniel as well.

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George Daniel: Oh, is that a cup of tea already?

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Charli XCX: Oh, we were just drinking that.

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John Kennedy: It’s an intercom for the front door.

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John Kennedy: George Daniel, welcome back.

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John Kennedy: So thanks so much for coming in and joining us and sharing this album with us.

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John Kennedy: So when did you all start working on it?

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Charli XCX: I think officially we kind of started working together on the album in Mexico City.

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A.G. Cook: End of 2022?

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Charli XCX: Was that the first time that trip?

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A.G. Cook: Yeah, because you were touring Crash Steel and you were just like, I want to do something that isn’t this exactly.

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A.G. Cook: And so it was in between like a Crash Festival sort of show.

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A.G. Cook: And yeah, it was, I mean, it was Girl So Confusing.

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Charli XCX: Right.

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A.G. Cook: And then we’d already talked a little bit about even the album name maybe or something, the idea at least, that album attitude.

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A.G. Cook: And then we did a track that was like, wait, this is like definitely part of it.

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Charli XCX: I think I had sort of come up with the name of the record, like the middle of 2022, I think in like June or something.

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Charli XCX: And sort of began to have this kind of this general like atmosphere and ethos that I wanted to approach the entire record with, like, you know, the kind of visual like look of everything, but also, you know, the sound of the music and also even just the way that we would approach recording and working on the music.

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Charli XCX: And I think, yeah, starting in Mexico City, doing Girl, so confusing.

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Charli XCX: That was like a pretty good template of how we kind of set about creating the rest of the record because that was very fast.

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A.G. Cook: And also it’s funny because, I mean, I feel like we’ve worked on this album technically longer than some of the albums we’ve both been involved with, but the individual tracks are still generally done pretty quickly.

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A.G. Cook: But the idea is to capture that feeling.

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A.G. Cook: But it is interesting that you’ve had the, especially with the kind of name and atmosphere of it, that that’s been in place for a good while before it was even rolling out.

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A.G. Cook: So that kind of made it so when there was something that suddenly felt right, we immediately knew like, oh, this is Bratt, this isn’t Bratt, like, try again, you know.

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John Kennedy: And is that something you can define?

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John Kennedy: Can you define what Bratt is just in terms of even working in the studio?

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Charli XCX: Yeah, I think there’s a directness and a minimalism to making each of the songs and the sound of the songs, the lyrical approach.

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Charli XCX: We kind of found, you know, whereas in the past, I’ve collaborated with other songwriters that I like and, you know, other producers that I like who are kind of less directly associated to me or less frequent collaborators, it really felt on this record that that was just not an option.

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Charli XCX: It had to be kind of pretty much one-on-one, like with myself and whichever producer.

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Charli XCX: And there wasn’t really much room for outside voices or opinions because it all just felt extremely kind of like potent.

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Charli XCX: So I think we kind of like funneled all of that in together.

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Charli XCX: By the way, my brain is like totally gone.

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Charli XCX: So I don’t even know if I just answered your question.

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John Kennedy: No, I think you did.

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John Kennedy: Yeah, no, totally.

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Charli XCX: Okay, just tell me if I go off-piste because it’s a very like off-piste kind of day for me.

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John Kennedy: Yeah, no, I can understand that.

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John Kennedy: We should explain you’re in the midst of promoting this new album, which is about to come out.

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John Kennedy: So this is kind of the eye of the storm.

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John Kennedy: So we completely understand that.

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John Kennedy: Maybe we’ll go into the first track.

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John Kennedy: We heard Blast of the Master of Club Classics, which is the first song we’re going to look at, and then we can work out how that all began.

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John Kennedy: It is Club Classics, Charli XCX from Brat, and it’s pretty hard to resist nodding your head, or tapping your toe, or probably jump it up and going crazy to that, which is the whole idea, I assume.

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John Kennedy: I mean, it’s straight into the zone, straight into dancing and having fun.

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John Kennedy: How did you come up with this?

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John Kennedy: What happened first?

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Charli XCX: Well, I think we kind of remember this differently.

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Charli XCX: Because I remember-

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Charli XCX: Well, yeah, I remember how this song came about, and you were like, I don’t remember that at all.

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Charli XCX: So my memory of it is we were in your kitchen in London.

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George Daniel: We were definitely in London, agree.

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Charli XCX: Where do you think we were?

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George Daniel: You were about to leave mine, and I was like, let me play this thing.

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George Daniel: You were like, ah, can we do it in a bit?

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Charli XCX: That’s not what happened.

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Charli XCX: We were in the kitchen.

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Charli XCX: Maybe I was about to leave, but I wasn’t like, no.

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George Daniel: You were like, ah, can we do it in a bit?

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Charli XCX: Okay, okay, whatever.

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Charli XCX: You played me a very infantile beginning of the track of Club Classics.

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Charli XCX: And at that point in time, you had used, and I mean, it’s still in there.

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Charli XCX: You had taken a piece of my vocal from an interview that I had done, and you had chopped up my vocal and put it over this track.

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Charli XCX: And that was kind of like the beginnings of this track.

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Charli XCX: And you were like, do you like this?

00:13:50.547 –> 00:13:53.327
Charli XCX: And in my memory, I was like, yes.

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Charli XCX: And immediately I was like, oh, I have this idea.

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Charli XCX: Because I was like, I really want to do this song called Club Classics, where I talk about everyone’s music that I like to hear when I go out, which is yours, Sophie’s, Hudmo, Mike Skinner.

00:14:09.467 –> 00:14:14.227
Charli XCX: And then immediately I was like, when I go to the club, I want to hear those Club Classics.

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Charli XCX: I was like, do you think this is cool?

00:14:15.967 –> 00:14:16.787
Charli XCX: And you were like, yeah.

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Charli XCX: And it actually reminded me of when we were doing the Welcome to My Island remix when we were on holiday.

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Charli XCX: And I was like, do you think it’s lame if I just go, welcome to my island, bitch?

00:14:25.527 –> 00:14:27.287
Charli XCX: And you were like, no, I think it’s good.

00:14:27.507 –> 00:14:28.707
Charli XCX: So it was like that process.

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Charli XCX: That’s how I remember.

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George Daniel: No, it’s not a million miles away from that.

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George Daniel: I just remember trying to catch you whilst you were trying to leave, being like, oh, I was really excited about this thing.

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George Daniel: I was like, I’ve just found this this shop and like we should do we should do like Jersey Club, like Kick Pattern.

00:14:42.507 –> 00:14:44.247
George Daniel: And you were like, oh, can we do it in a bit?

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Charli XCX: And then I was at the Jersey Club and then I just hit play.

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George Daniel: I hit play and you turned around and went, what is this?

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George Daniel: That was my version of it.

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Charli XCX: OK, I like your version.

00:14:57.207 –> 00:14:58.847
George Daniel: Romanticized probably.

00:14:58.867 –> 00:15:00.367
George Daniel: I don’t know which elements.

00:15:00.687 –> 00:15:01.307
Charli XCX: That’s cool.

00:15:01.327 –> 00:15:02.207
A.G. Cook: You cancel the flight.

00:15:04.347 –> 00:15:05.827
John Kennedy: Do you have that, George?

00:15:06.147 –> 00:15:08.607
John Kennedy: Do you have that thing that you would have played, Charli?

00:15:09.767 –> 00:15:11.607
Charli XCX: I found you sent it to me.

00:15:11.627 –> 00:15:12.747
Charli XCX: It’s definitely in your file.

00:15:12.767 –> 00:15:18.407
George Daniel: I found the version this morning or last night when I was making sure these sessions were here.

00:15:18.687 –> 00:15:21.947
George Daniel: I found the version I sent to Alex and was like, you need to get on this.

00:15:22.267 –> 00:15:26.947
George Daniel: I don’t know whether this was like a few days after the conception or.

00:15:26.967 –> 00:15:29.327
George Daniel: Yeah, this is the earliest one I could find.

00:15:29.947 –> 00:15:31.707
George Daniel: It’s like half the structure.

00:15:42.887 –> 00:15:45.927
John Kennedy: But that voice is the chop from the interview.

00:15:48.407 –> 00:15:51.247
George Daniel: And then Maya just did horrible chords.

00:15:52.807 –> 00:15:55.507
A.G. Cook: It’s all in there, really.

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George Daniel: I knew that I didn’t like the sound of those chords, but it was doing something.

00:16:08.180 –> 00:16:14.180
John Kennedy: I guess the key thing is that that vocal sample combined with the beat, that’s the essence of it.

00:16:14.200 –> 00:16:20.620
George Daniel: Also, we were talking about, I was like, is this just too close to Fatboy Slip?

00:16:20.640 –> 00:16:21.400
George Daniel: Right?

00:16:22.560 –> 00:16:22.980
George Daniel: What?

00:16:23.000 –> 00:16:24.800
Charli XCX: Which, oh, right here, right now?

00:16:24.840 –> 00:16:25.120
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:16:25.460 –> 00:16:26.540
George Daniel: And you were like, what?

00:16:26.560 –> 00:16:28.040
Charli XCX: That didn’t even cross my mind.

00:16:28.060 –> 00:16:31.260
George Daniel: Yeah, I was like worried that it was just a dud.

00:16:31.660 –> 00:16:32.540
Charli XCX: No, no.

00:16:32.540 –> 00:16:55.880
Charli XCX: I mean, I think the really cool thing about this track, and actually a lot of your work is, I think, like vocal chops really kind of like drive a lot of like really interesting instrumentals that you make, like, and that to me is really, I find that really kind of, yeah, just like pleasing and fun to listen to, even though it’s not my work.

00:16:57.540 –> 00:16:58.760
Charli XCX: Yeah, totally.

00:16:58.780 –> 00:17:07.120
George Daniel: The first times we worked together, that was definitely the thing that I knew that we had in common, and also it’s a product of like, I can’t play an instrument, so I had to make sure that…

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Charli XCX: What do you mean?

00:17:08.580 –> 00:17:09.560
Charli XCX: You’re literally a drummer.

00:17:09.580 –> 00:17:10.280
George Daniel: No, no, sorry.

00:17:10.300 –> 00:17:13.560
George Daniel: In the studio, I can’t, like, I don’t write on an instrument.

00:17:13.780 –> 00:17:14.600
Charli XCX: Got you.

00:17:14.620 –> 00:17:16.800
George Daniel: So I had to make sure that I can…

00:17:17.060 –> 00:17:18.680
George Daniel: Right, right, right, right…

00:17:18.680 –> 00:17:18.680
George Daniel: .

00:17:18.680 –> 00:17:21.520
George Daniel: like, you know, program things, so.

00:17:21.580 –> 00:17:21.960
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:17:22.300 –> 00:17:24.740
John Kennedy: So we’ve got the first demo.

00:17:24.840 –> 00:17:26.100
John Kennedy: You’ve sent it to AG.

00:17:26.120 –> 00:17:27.660
John Kennedy: Cook and said you should get it.

00:17:27.680 –> 00:17:34.580
A.G. Cook: I don’t even know, I joined pretty late and I did all my work on George’s laptop, from what I remember.

00:17:34.600 –> 00:17:35.940
A.G. Cook: That doesn’t discredit our work.

00:17:35.960 –> 00:17:36.740
A.G. Cook: No, no, I’m just saying it was…

00:17:37.100 –> 00:17:37.560
A.G. Cook: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:37.580 –> 00:17:39.840
A.G. Cook: Just yours in LA., like, quite a bit after.

00:17:39.860 –> 00:17:43.280
A.G. Cook: You’d already done more vocal stuff and a lot of things.

00:17:43.300 –> 00:17:49.980
A.G. Cook: And it was really just, you know, making the chords and some of the chords into bass things more epic.

00:17:50.060 –> 00:18:01.720
A.G. Cook: And also what’s funny is I think when most of the things we’ve done, then when George and I work on a file, it’s a lot of like me muting stuff because you’ve got a very like, even if it is minimal, you’ve got this detailed.

00:18:01.740 –> 00:18:05.380
George Daniel: Yeah, there was too many things that were just in and then staying in.

00:18:05.960 –> 00:18:06.400
A.G. Cook: Yeah, yeah.

00:18:06.420 –> 00:18:07.460
A.G. Cook: And that’s always as fun for me.

00:18:07.480 –> 00:18:15.140
A.G. Cook: I really enjoy like wading around things with lots of parts and being like, oh, we could remake this and like turn these five things off and then just make it.

00:18:15.460 –> 00:18:28.720
A.G. Cook: And also in my head, that’s is also kind of my producer brain trying to make it not just more Charli, but also more George and more like, I really enjoy with any collaborators like to really get into that headspace.

00:18:28.740 –> 00:18:38.660
A.G. Cook: Like I think most mixtapes, albums, whatever we’ve done, when we have brought in producers, I feel like that’s also how you think of it sometimes, we’re like really like figuring out that person’s personality.

00:18:38.680 –> 00:18:40.960
A.G. Cook: I think it happens with the hudmo ones as well.

00:18:40.980 –> 00:18:53.780
A.G. Cook: I was like, oh, let’s make it like even more hudmo and convincing Ross to like go in and you know, then some of the stuff I’ll come up with is almost like my sort of fantasy version of a piano breakdown the hudmo might do, even if I’m the one on the piano or something.

00:18:53.800 –> 00:18:59.600
A.G. Cook: So I really enjoy, I think that’s what we share a lot and how we see stuff, enjoy that kind of perspective on it.

00:18:59.620 –> 00:19:03.500
A.G. Cook: So that’s really, that’s maybe why it’s perfect to do on your laptop as well, just opening up.

00:19:03.520 –> 00:19:09.520
George Daniel: Yeah, in my head, the timeline was like, we had this, we vocaled on kind of this a bit.

00:19:09.580 –> 00:19:11.260
Charli XCX: Yeah, yeah, at my place in LA.

00:19:11.280 –> 00:19:11.840
George Daniel: I remember.

00:19:11.860 –> 00:19:15.600
Charli XCX: Well, no, before, sorry, before that, didn’t you do the crazy bass?

00:19:15.800 –> 00:19:21.740
George Daniel: That was just before we, I showed it to you and Alex, and I was like, guys, I don’t know about this bass.

00:19:21.760 –> 00:19:22.180
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:19:23.920 –> 00:19:24.040
George Daniel: Yeah.

00:19:24.060 –> 00:19:24.760
Charli XCX: It’s the best part.

00:19:24.780 –> 00:19:27.380
Charli XCX: Well, you were upstairs in my studio.

00:19:27.400 –> 00:19:32.480
Charli XCX: I have a studio in my house in LA, and I think you were working with the door open.

00:19:32.500 –> 00:19:35.960
Charli XCX: And I was like, what is going on up there?

00:19:35.980 –> 00:19:37.640
Charli XCX: What’s this like dubstep thing?

00:19:37.660 –> 00:19:46.020
George Daniel: I remember one of the first things Alex did was mute the drums over the break with the gang vocal and that bass, which is arguably the biggest point of the song.

00:19:46.040 –> 00:19:48.400
A.G. Cook: Well, just to make it so, I mean, it’s just so…

00:19:48.420 –> 00:19:49.620
George Daniel: I mean, it’s a hands up moment.

00:19:49.640 –> 00:19:50.740
A.G. Cook: So bratty.

00:19:50.740 –> 00:19:51.300
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:19:51.320 –> 00:19:52.280
John Kennedy: So what should we hear?

00:19:52.420 –> 00:19:54.120
John Kennedy: What iterations can you share with us?

00:19:54.140 –> 00:19:54.820
Charli XCX: Sorry, we’re just like…

00:19:54.840 –> 00:19:56.280
John Kennedy: No, no, it’s fascinating.

00:19:56.300 –> 00:19:57.320
George Daniel: I mean, I’ve got the…

00:19:57.340 –> 00:19:59.360
John Kennedy: Because to illustrate some of these changes has been…

00:19:59.380 –> 00:20:01.000
George Daniel: Yeah, I went…

00:20:01.020 –> 00:20:02.920
George Daniel: I have the session that went to the mix.

00:20:02.940 –> 00:20:05.680
George Daniel: So, yeah, I don’t know.

00:20:05.700 –> 00:20:07.100
George Daniel: How do you want to attack this?

00:20:07.780 –> 00:20:12.380
John Kennedy: Well, I mean, if you’re able to illustrate some of the things that you’ve been saying, so if you…

00:20:12.400 –> 00:20:18.780
Charli XCX: Why don’t you do the demo where I’m singing but the one I guess that you probably would have sent to Alex.

00:20:18.860 –> 00:20:19.780
George Daniel: Yeah, let me like…

00:20:19.800 –> 00:20:24.480
Charli XCX: And then show the version where Alex has gone in on your laptop.

00:20:27.820 –> 00:20:29.500
George Daniel: So this is the first day of…

00:20:38.312 –> 00:20:40.052
George Daniel: Let me find one with a vocal there.

00:20:40.672 –> 00:20:42.412
A.G. Cook: Where did you guys even record that vocal?

00:20:43.352 –> 00:20:44.712
A.G. Cook: In the same room, yeah.

00:20:45.312 –> 00:20:47.392
John Kennedy: So this will be in the studio in your house?

00:20:48.592 –> 00:20:56.972
Charli XCX: The first vocal was very lackluster attempt on my behalf, I think, very one take.

00:20:57.812 –> 00:21:08.712
Charli XCX: I’m not even sure if I did lyrics to begin with, or if it was just kind of a scratch of the Club Classics chorus idea.

00:21:09.152 –> 00:21:11.452
George Daniel: Did you do the gang vocal the same day?

00:21:11.472 –> 00:21:13.192
Charli XCX: I kind of ad-libbed that.

00:21:13.692 –> 00:21:15.692
George Daniel: Yeah, you were like, is this mental?

00:21:16.352 –> 00:21:16.772
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:21:16.792 –> 00:21:24.792
George Daniel: And it was like really just, it was exactly a half step away from being in tune with anything ever.

00:21:26.672 –> 00:21:28.172
George Daniel: But that was why it was great.

00:21:29.052 –> 00:21:30.532
George Daniel: And I was like, I’m not going to-

00:21:30.532 –> 00:21:32.012
Charli XCX: No, you did tune it a bit.

00:21:32.152 –> 00:21:32.752
Charli XCX: You did.

00:21:33.012 –> 00:21:34.052
George Daniel: You did.

00:21:34.272 –> 00:21:37.512
George Daniel: I grabbed the whole gang and pushed it half a semitone.

00:21:37.532 –> 00:21:38.592
A.G. Cook: That’s not order of tune, that’s fine.

00:21:38.612 –> 00:21:40.432
George Daniel: That’s not melody or auto-tune.

00:21:40.492 –> 00:21:42.732
George Daniel: No, it’s very different.

00:21:42.752 –> 00:21:49.772
A.G. Cook: I guess another cool thing on Brat is that there are those hard-tune moments, but there are a few where there is really nothing and like barely any vocal production.

00:21:49.792 –> 00:21:50.212
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

00:21:50.852 –> 00:21:53.132
George Daniel: Okay, this looks like something.

00:21:53.232 –> 00:21:57.232
George Daniel: I think this is when we were working in Logic with you, Alex.

00:21:59.292 –> 00:22:02.652
A.G. Cook: In Pro Tools, it’s really tidying up, isn’t it, before it gets mixed.

00:22:02.732 –> 00:22:17.632
George Daniel: Yeah, we did everything in Logic on this track and then I just stemmed it in Pro Tools and then just tidied boring stuff like clicks and pops and messes and put nicer plugins on and all that stuff, but it’s the same like aesthetically.

00:22:17.952 –> 00:22:21.012
George Daniel: This is the guide vocal because I can see it.

00:22:21.032 –> 00:22:21.332
A.G. Cook: Oh, is it?

00:22:21.432 –> 00:22:37.772
George Daniel: Yeah, it says Pro Tools guide, so this is, we have, we’ve bounced out of it, we’ve bounced the Logic version, recorded a scratch vocal in Tools and then put it back into Logic for when Alex came over.

00:22:37.972 –> 00:22:38.492
Charli XCX: Got it.

00:22:38.632 –> 00:22:39.272
George Daniel: I’m pretty.

00:22:55.292 –> 00:23:06.512
George Daniel: So actually, that’s already got Alex’s keys in, as you can hear, it’s kind of like much nicer voicing and much better sound and it’s nice and out of tune and it’s lovely.

00:23:08.412 –> 00:23:15.812
John Kennedy: Maybe you could build up the track and then you can illustrate all the different bits that either were taken away or added.

00:23:15.832 –> 00:23:20.232
George Daniel: All right, let’s start with like the chop and some of the drum elements.

00:23:34.312 –> 00:23:37.792
John Kennedy: And so what are you using to make those drum parts, George?

00:23:37.952 –> 00:23:52.072
George Daniel: So it’s one of the big things that was actually talked about with Alex was like 909 was very across the board from the start of this record, wasn’t it?

00:23:52.072 –> 00:23:55.312
George Daniel: And I was really trying to run with that as well.

00:23:55.572 –> 00:24:06.992
George Daniel: But also, I knew that I wanted to use this kick sound, which is this sort of, it’s just a very knocky like hip hop kick that feels very familiar.

00:24:06.992 –> 00:24:15.012
George Daniel: We’ve all heard it before, but it’s it’s often used in like Jersey Club, Baltimore Club, like that world.

00:24:15.932 –> 00:24:16.932
George Daniel: And it’s very dark.

00:24:17.072 –> 00:24:17.992
George Daniel: It’s very knocky.

00:24:18.612 –> 00:24:19.632
George Daniel: It’s very like…

00:24:24.832 –> 00:24:26.992
George Daniel: It’s not that impressive on its own.

00:24:27.092 –> 00:24:38.752
George Daniel: But I don’t know where this, do you know anything about this bass drum if it’s like a sort of free loops like Young Chop kind of thing?

00:24:42.732 –> 00:24:45.892
George Daniel: So it’s not like, this is the final cut.

00:24:47.912 –> 00:24:52.092
Charli XCX: I just when Alex said, I don’t know the history, it just made me laugh.

00:24:52.112 –> 00:24:52.932
A.G. Cook: Always saying that.

00:24:53.412 –> 00:24:54.292
George Daniel: Anyway, yes.

00:24:54.832 –> 00:24:57.512
George Daniel: And then there was a lot of like, okay, how do I tie this?

00:24:58.332 –> 00:25:04.512
George Daniel: Like how can I use this kick with an identity that’s going to work in Charli World, in Alex World, in Brat World?

00:25:05.392 –> 00:25:09.672
George Daniel: So 808s and 909s really is like the vibe.

00:25:09.712 –> 00:25:20.492
George Daniel: And then there’s also quite an interesting like chant, which is kind of actually like a weird sort of DJ Mustard thing, which is like the upbeat.

00:25:29.428 –> 00:25:30.448
George Daniel: A weird sort of DJard, which is like the upbeat.

00:25:51.402 –> 00:25:51.982
George Daniel: Like, the only thing that happens is then we go to four on the floor.

00:25:52.042 –> 00:25:52.422
Charli XCX: I think the simplicity makes them really hard, though.

00:25:52.482 –> 00:25:53.902
Charli XCX: You know, even the sound of that kick, it’s like, it’s not really very, like, deep in any way, but I think that kind of makes it pretty, like…

00:25:53.962 –> 00:25:54.262
Charli XCX: Yeah, it’s knocky, it’s not expensive.

00:25:54.322 –> 00:25:54.742
Charli XCX: Like, if you were trying to make it, like…

00:25:54.802 –> 00:25:55.342
George Daniel: Big, it would be weird, I think, if it was big.

00:25:55.402 –> 00:25:59.628
George Daniel: Yeah, if it was wide or if it was, like, scooped and sounded, like posh, it would be not really…

00:25:59.648 –> 00:26:00.788
Charli XCX: Right, right, totally.

00:26:02.008 –> 00:26:08.028
George Daniel: But yeah, this is the only evolution is that, it’s just simple.

00:26:08.148 –> 00:26:10.368
A.G. Cook: I would say that growl sound, or the growl synth sound.

00:26:10.388 –> 00:26:14.748
George Daniel: Yeah, that is, that’s Pulsar, that is Pulsar 23.

00:26:14.768 –> 00:26:17.408
George Daniel: That’s an analogue, weird drum machine.

00:26:17.428 –> 00:26:19.408
George Daniel: I think it’s a Russian drum machine.

00:26:21.988 –> 00:26:28.848
John Kennedy: So at what point do you then get to do your verses, Charli, and work out how you’re going to do it?

00:26:28.868 –> 00:26:31.968
Charli XCX: I mean, I can kind of go pretty quick.

00:26:32.168 –> 00:26:45.588
Charli XCX: I don’t really need the track to be very developed, actually, before I can really get ideas and really start jumping on things.

00:26:45.868 –> 00:26:49.228
Charli XCX: And actually, with George, I sometimes have to be like, stop.

00:26:49.248 –> 00:26:49.788
George Daniel: Turn it off.

00:26:49.808 –> 00:26:51.368
Charli XCX: Turn stuff off.

00:26:51.528 –> 00:27:00.328
Charli XCX: And in the past, Alex and I, we’ve kind of worked together on tracks with literally one or two things in them.

00:27:00.348 –> 00:27:01.448
A.G. Cook: Yeah, that’s my favorite.

00:27:01.588 –> 00:27:03.348
A.G. Cook: Then it can react to what you’re doing.

00:27:03.368 –> 00:27:04.608
A.G. Cook: It’s not too overbearing.

00:27:04.648 –> 00:27:06.368
A.G. Cook: It’s so much more fun.

00:27:06.388 –> 00:27:09.728
A.G. Cook: It’s sometimes funny if I’ve done that with an artist I don’t know as well.

00:27:09.748 –> 00:27:11.548
A.G. Cook: They really freak out.

00:27:11.568 –> 00:27:14.088
A.G. Cook: There’s nothing to grab onto here.

00:27:14.108 –> 00:27:17.928
A.G. Cook: But yeah, we’re doing our stuff and keeping the speed and lack of preciousness.

00:27:17.968 –> 00:27:25.028
A.G. Cook: So it’s also if we need to delete or change anything or whatever, it can also happen because I haven’t been crafting something for hours or whatever.

00:27:25.528 –> 00:27:47.288
Charli XCX: And actually that’s a problem that I run into working with new producers is I think there is a fear that they don’t want to send me anything that’s too early on in the process out of the fear that I won’t understand where it could go or that it won’t sound finished enough or advanced enough.

00:27:47.668 –> 00:27:50.588
Charli XCX: And basically I think their fear is that I’ll think that they’re really crap.

00:27:50.688 –> 00:27:54.228
Charli XCX: But it’s really hard to just convince them like it’s fine.

00:27:54.248 –> 00:27:56.328
Charli XCX: I know you’re crap.

00:27:56.348 –> 00:27:57.828
Charli XCX: I know you’re crap.

00:27:58.648 –> 00:28:07.788
Charli XCX: But no, it’s really hard sometimes to wrestle a track off someone before, because I don’t like a lot of bells and whistles generally when I’m writing.

00:28:07.808 –> 00:28:09.568
George Daniel: It’s also pressure, isn’t it?

00:28:09.588 –> 00:28:10.108
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:28:10.128 –> 00:28:18.528
George Daniel: And the nice thing I’ve learned from you guys about less is more in the writing process is also it means that if something’s not working, you just go, okay, throw it away.

00:28:18.548 –> 00:28:22.528
George Daniel: It starts all over again and it’s like it’s really, it’s really powerful.

00:28:22.548 –> 00:28:28.948
A.G. Cook: And you can put one big bell or whistle later, honestly, just eventually, you can just do one.

00:28:28.968 –> 00:28:29.908
Charli XCX: No, literally.

00:28:31.708 –> 00:28:39.848
Charli XCX: So I think, I mean, yeah, I was already writing, you know, my ideas when I heard the track for the first time.

00:28:39.868 –> 00:28:40.828
A.G. Cook: Walking out the kitchen.

00:28:40.848 –> 00:28:41.848
Charli XCX: George’s boat.

00:28:44.508 –> 00:28:56.428
George Daniel: Yeah, I just, sorry, I just, I just like put back in something that I know was happening in structure, which was without that breakdown, without the drums dropping out and just that bass coming in.

00:28:56.448 –> 00:28:59.988
George Daniel: And just, I think this would have scared everyone away from the song.

00:29:00.008 –> 00:29:00.448
George Daniel: What?

00:29:00.468 –> 00:29:01.528
Charli XCX: Because there wasn’t a break?

00:29:02.428 –> 00:29:03.488
George Daniel: It’s just so different.

00:29:15.308 –> 00:29:17.268
Charli XCX: Yeah, I mean it’s not like terrifyingly different.

00:29:17.628 –> 00:29:19.448
A.G. Cook: Sounds freaky.

00:29:21.268 –> 00:29:25.208
George Daniel: No, but it’s like, it’s like less than half as hooky.

00:29:25.288 –> 00:29:25.648
Charli XCX: I mean.

00:29:25.948 –> 00:29:28.748
George Daniel: Anyway, that was a very simple, great move.

00:29:28.988 –> 00:29:31.088
Charli XCX: And let’s say Alex’s keys.

00:29:31.308 –> 00:29:34.308
A.G. Cook: Yeah, so the serum ones, right?

00:29:34.408 –> 00:29:41.168
A.G. Cook: Because, yeah, you already had chords in there, basically mapping out what it was, but we just wanted it to be more.

00:29:41.528 –> 00:29:45.068
George Daniel: They didn’t feel very brat or me or Charli.

00:29:45.748 –> 00:29:48.688
George Daniel: So, yeah, an imposter.

00:29:49.608 –> 00:29:51.788
George Daniel: And play the originals.

00:29:51.808 –> 00:29:58.048
George Daniel: It’s just like, yeah, great.

00:29:58.348 –> 00:30:00.228
George Daniel: This is off synth with a phaser on it.

00:30:01.908 –> 00:30:04.268
George Daniel: And then that was replaced with these guys.

00:30:08.948 –> 00:30:09.568
George Daniel: So nice.

00:30:10.068 –> 00:30:11.388
John Kennedy: So this is what Alex did.

00:30:11.588 –> 00:30:12.048
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:30:12.088 –> 00:30:19.148
A.G. Cook: Yeah, I mean, I’m always making, I try to make a lot of those kind of sounds from scratch, specifically so I can control the detune.

00:30:19.148 –> 00:30:20.528
A.G. Cook: Like in that one, it’s evolving.

00:30:20.548 –> 00:30:23.348
A.G. Cook: I think it’s a reverb and the detune.

00:30:23.368 –> 00:30:26.848
A.G. Cook: I think there’s a slow envelope that’s drifting around.

00:30:27.268 –> 00:30:29.888
A.G. Cook: And yeah, it’s nudging the reverb time.

00:30:30.328 –> 00:30:32.168
A.G. Cook: Yeah, you can just play it on there.

00:30:32.188 –> 00:30:34.688
A.G. Cook: You might see it moving around very slightly.

00:30:34.708 –> 00:30:37.888
A.G. Cook: So yeah, I guess you got an effect.

00:30:37.908 –> 00:30:40.908
A.G. Cook: It’s all mainly drifting in there, is it?

00:30:41.608 –> 00:30:42.348
A.G. Cook: That’s the right one.

00:30:55.048 –> 00:30:57.618
George Daniel: Yeah, you can see here, the LFOs map to the reverbs.

00:30:57.618 –> 00:31:15.598
A.G. Cook: Yeah, it’s very basic, but it’s nice just because, especially for me, detune, I mean, there’s a lot of Charli tracks that have it in some way, and it can sort of mean anything from like a sort of big rave moment to quite an emo sort of chord suspended kind of emotional moment.

00:31:15.958 –> 00:31:23.878
A.G. Cook: And so the idea that can be the sort of same sound drifting between those two extremes is something that I just think suits a lot of Charli’s writing anyway.

00:31:23.898 –> 00:31:31.638
A.G. Cook: And also with that one, it’s like, yeah, like the internal movement of the chords also being sort of melodic and the top note being very like static as well.

00:31:31.658 –> 00:31:34.458
A.G. Cook: It’s something I find myself doing on a lot of Charli songs.

00:31:34.478 –> 00:31:38.218
A.G. Cook: So it feels like if you zoom out, it sounds very simple.

00:31:38.238 –> 00:31:41.798
A.G. Cook: And then if you like tune into it or maybe Charli will pick on on some melodic thing.

00:31:41.818 –> 00:31:43.158
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

00:31:43.178 –> 00:31:49.818
A.G. Cook: So a lot of the yeah, a lot of the tracks have that as a bit of a signature that I’ve grown within Charli World, I think.

00:31:50.058 –> 00:31:55.338
George Daniel: Yeah, there’s not really anything that’s in tune on the song, especially Charli, let’s face it.

00:31:55.358 –> 00:32:00.098
George Daniel: The first bass, I think, is probably the only thing that’s a pitch.

00:32:00.758 –> 00:32:03.718
George Daniel: And then, I mean, this guy certainly is an…

00:32:10.507 –> 00:32:13.947
Charli XCX: I remember when we listened to it for the first time.

00:32:15.147 –> 00:32:15.987
George Daniel: On the PA at home.

00:32:16.007 –> 00:32:21.107
Charli XCX: Yeah, we listened to it on my PA in this bar that I have at home.

00:32:21.127 –> 00:32:21.707
George Daniel: In your club.

00:32:23.087 –> 00:32:25.167
Charli XCX: I have a club kind of at home.

00:32:26.127 –> 00:32:35.207
Charli XCX: And we were so excited, because we’d worked on it all day, and we’d just been working in the studio, and we were like, this is awesome.

00:32:35.207 –> 00:32:37.927
Charli XCX: We were just feeling super, super good about it.

00:32:37.947 –> 00:32:41.547
Charli XCX: And we were like, let’s play it in the bar, in the house.

00:32:41.587 –> 00:32:43.427
Charli XCX: It hit really, really loud.

00:32:43.447 –> 00:32:44.647
Charli XCX: We were so excited.

00:32:44.667 –> 00:32:48.367
Charli XCX: And we put it on, and we both sort of stood there.

00:32:48.387 –> 00:32:52.087
George Daniel: It was the gang vocal over that bass, and it was pre-tuning.

00:32:53.567 –> 00:33:01.067
Charli XCX: And we were kind of listening for about a minute, and then we looked at each other, and we were like, is this really bad?

00:33:01.087 –> 00:33:03.647
Charli XCX: Because it was all totally out of tune.

00:33:03.667 –> 00:33:07.727
Charli XCX: Also, the room is empty, so the sound is knocking around the whole room.

00:33:07.807 –> 00:33:10.187
Charli XCX: We were just looking at each other like, are we crazy?

00:33:10.207 –> 00:33:19.727
Charli XCX: Because about five minutes ago, when we were in this very soundproofed studio, we were having the time of our lives, and now we’re wondering whether we’ve gone insane.

00:33:19.787 –> 00:33:22.367
Charli XCX: And then you tuned my vocal, and it was fine.

00:33:22.387 –> 00:33:24.627
George Daniel: It was only half a semitone, it’s nothing.

00:33:26.867 –> 00:33:30.287
George Daniel: But I think I was going to say, we can play that, not happening.

00:33:31.547 –> 00:33:34.607
Charli XCX: I mean, just imagine what it’s like now, but more out of tune.

00:33:34.667 –> 00:33:37.087
Charli XCX: Tuning is not my forte.

00:33:37.107 –> 00:33:46.167
A.G. Cook: But it’s so cool because I think you actually do sing really on pitch, and then you just embrace it as an instrument, and we can put that fiction to rest, I think.

00:33:46.587 –> 00:33:48.287
A.G. Cook: I’ve heard some of the early work.

00:33:48.727 –> 00:33:50.507
Charli XCX: Yeah, but no, but you’re right.

00:33:50.527 –> 00:34:03.167
Charli XCX: The early work, I could sing in tune, but now I think I’ve gotten so lazy because I sing with auto-tune all the time.

00:34:03.287 –> 00:34:05.927
Charli XCX: I’m not singing with auto-tune.

00:34:09.927 –> 00:34:20.667
Charli XCX: Unless I’m doing karaoke, which I actively don’t do for this reason, I’m pretty out because my ear is so used to leaning in.

00:34:22.307 –> 00:34:23.427
George Daniel: You’re just perfectly in.

00:34:23.627 –> 00:34:25.327
Charli XCX: Yeah, I’m amazing.

00:34:25.347 –> 00:34:26.167
Charli XCX: I just wouldn’t do it.

00:34:26.187 –> 00:34:28.367
Charli XCX: Well, that’s why I only do rap at karaoke.

00:34:28.547 –> 00:34:29.447
Charli XCX: Oh, yeah.

00:34:30.127 –> 00:34:33.647
Charli XCX: Well, yeah, because people are like, oh, isn’t she a singer?

00:34:33.667 –> 00:34:37.527
Charli XCX: And I’m like, well, yeah, but like, have you heard of auto-tune, you know?

00:34:37.547 –> 00:34:41.427
George Daniel: Which you can get a lot of the sort of newer places.

00:34:41.507 –> 00:34:42.767
Charli XCX: Oh, well, we should just go there.

00:34:45.947 –> 00:34:53.667
Charli XCX: But no, but because I’m singing live with auto-tune, anytime I write, I’m using auto-tune.

00:34:54.047 –> 00:34:56.527
Charli XCX: Anytime I’m cutting vocals, I’m using auto-tune.

00:34:56.547 –> 00:35:05.287
Charli XCX: Like, you know, you get lazy, like you really, really get lazy because you kind of like can relax into a note rather than being super on.

00:35:05.307 –> 00:35:12.667
Charli XCX: And I mean, there are some amazingly technical singers who do sing with auto-tune, who are still like pitch perfect, but like that’s not me.

00:35:12.687 –> 00:35:16.027
Charli XCX: Like I drink and I smoke and I use auto-tune, those three things.

00:35:16.047 –> 00:35:18.127
A.G. Cook: But you also know, what a motto.

00:35:19.127 –> 00:35:21.767
George Daniel: You also know, like your two modes.

00:35:21.927 –> 00:35:29.667
George Daniel: So you’ll be like, you’ll try a thing, if it’s not working, you’ll be like, turn it off, do auto-tune, like for that gang vocal, you knew that that wasn’t.

00:35:30.347 –> 00:35:32.067
A.G. Cook: It wouldn’t work with auto-tune, really that.

00:35:32.527 –> 00:35:33.747
Charli XCX: Well, you want on that.

00:35:33.767 –> 00:35:36.767
Charli XCX: I immediately knew that I wanted it to feel pitchy.

00:35:36.787 –> 00:35:50.787
Charli XCX: Like I think that was the charm and that again, it’s like in the same way, the kick is hard because it’s kind of imperfect, crappy in a way, sorry, I don’t know the technical word, but like it’s like the same way with the vocal.

00:35:50.807 –> 00:35:58.147
Charli XCX: It’s like sometimes actually it can be really hard, like when it’s a little bit janky and out of tune.

00:35:58.167 –> 00:36:05.207
Charli XCX: It’s like some of those like great like gang vocal moments in hip hop, like Gucci Mane’s Lemonade.

00:36:05.227 –> 00:36:12.107
Charli XCX: It’s like that sounds so good because of the way that gang vocal sounds, you know, and I think this is like a similar.

00:36:12.127 –> 00:36:20.847
A.G. Cook: There’s also a whole legacy of like, I don’t know, like Wigfield stuff and other things like that whole era is like it’s pre the widespread use of auto-tune.

00:36:20.887 –> 00:36:30.447
George Daniel: And also, I think it always people always when something is innately electronic, you then want to find imperfection somewhere else.

00:36:30.607 –> 00:36:31.027
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:36:31.047 –> 00:36:46.367
George Daniel: So you’re either chasing out of tune LFOs, pitching keys or yeah, in vocals, whether it’s some modulation that’s catching your ear, that is basically the human element of something that’s innately not real.

00:36:47.267 –> 00:37:03.927
Charli XCX: And I think that’s also like, you know, for brat, I think that’s really important because I think there is important to have this like human kind of mistake element happening in the tracks, because I think that sort of like very much goes with the ethos of the record as well, you know.

00:37:05.567 –> 00:37:05.847
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:37:06.327 –> 00:37:07.627
John Kennedy: I can certainly understand that.

00:37:07.867 –> 00:37:09.627
John Kennedy: We have got to be conscious of time.

00:37:09.627 –> 00:37:11.447
John Kennedy: We’ve got a lot to get through.

00:37:11.467 –> 00:37:14.707
John Kennedy: Should we just have a quick blast to the end and then move on to our next song?

00:37:14.727 –> 00:37:17.167
George Daniel: Is there anything else on this track that’s of note?

00:37:17.647 –> 00:37:18.287
A.G. Cook: End’s cool.

00:37:18.367 –> 00:37:19.507
Charli XCX: The end is really cool.

00:37:19.527 –> 00:37:19.667
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:37:46.049 –> 00:37:47.829
A.G. Cook: And that’s you, George, in the low ones, right?

00:37:49.289 –> 00:37:53.869
George Daniel: Yeah, I was just on my own, just doing that.

00:37:53.889 –> 00:37:59.709
A.G. Cook: I think what’s cool about this track is that it just keeps playing for a bit, even though it’s still a short song.

00:38:00.029 –> 00:38:01.189
George Daniel: No, the outro is great.

00:38:01.409 –> 00:38:06.889
A.G. Cook: Like the luxury of it just continuing and still being this kind of short replayable thing is really nice.

00:38:07.009 –> 00:38:09.729
George Daniel: Yeah, I remember actually being like, is this outro too long?

00:38:09.749 –> 00:38:11.709
George Daniel: And you were like, make it longer and take the snare drum out.

00:38:12.249 –> 00:38:14.169
George Daniel: And I was like, yeah, you’re right.

00:38:14.489 –> 00:38:28.309
A.G. Cook: Yeah, I really love the, yeah, just it’s weird that a lot of the track links on Brat, I like that whether it’s short or too long or too something that always feels indulgent, like, oh, it’s indulgently short or indulging long or something.

00:38:28.329 –> 00:38:32.809
A.G. Cook: That’s the brattiness of it, that it’s like, might be the wrong length, but that’s perfect for this kind of thing.

00:38:32.829 –> 00:38:36.249
A.G. Cook: So I think finding that in whatever combination is really nice.

00:38:36.409 –> 00:38:42.569
A.G. Cook: I mean, also the bass with the, I remember the sort of weird echo on it as well, just reminds me of a kind of Apex.

00:38:42.589 –> 00:38:45.129
George Daniel: Again, that echo is like technically crap.

00:38:45.349 –> 00:38:46.109
A.G. Cook: Yeah, yeah.

00:38:46.129 –> 00:38:47.469
A.G. Cook: It’s a logic built in one.

00:38:47.769 –> 00:38:50.829
George Daniel: It just sounds like, just really little and…

00:38:50.849 –> 00:38:51.609
A.G. Cook: It’s like monophonic.

00:38:51.629 –> 00:38:55.189
A.G. Cook: It sort of sounds mono, yeah, it’s not very stereo.

00:38:55.609 –> 00:39:04.889
George Daniel: Yeah, again, I think that adds to what we were talking about, just like imperfection and like things not being perfect and sort of polished.

00:39:05.589 –> 00:39:09.389
George Daniel: Reaching for things that are creative tools rather than sonic tools.

00:39:09.729 –> 00:39:10.009
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:39:10.589 –> 00:39:14.849
John Kennedy: So, that is Club Classics, we’re going to take a quick break and the next song we’re going to look at is Apple.

00:39:17.609 –> 00:39:22.849
John Kennedy: This episode is supported by Musiversal, an amazing new service for working with session musicians remotely.

00:39:23.109 –> 00:39:36.189
John Kennedy: If you use session musicians or would like to, but it’s been too expensive or hard to organise, this is for you and we have a special offer for any Tapenotes listeners, 25% off for the first three months and you get to skip the waitlist, but more on that in a moment.

00:39:36.629 –> 00:39:39.369
John Kennedy: I’ve got David from Musiversal here to tell us all about it.

00:39:39.549 –> 00:39:41.609
John Kennedy: Hello David, what is Musiversal?

00:39:41.849 –> 00:39:43.729
David: Hey John, thank you so much for having us on here.

00:39:43.769 –> 00:39:44.809
David: Appreciate it a ton.

00:39:45.129 –> 00:39:55.929
David: Musiversal is an online remote recording studio for artists, producers, composers, anyone who’s a music creator to work with session musicians remotely.

00:39:56.229 –> 00:40:04.629
David: In a couple of clicks, you can go on and you can book a session with a drummer or a guitar player, a piano player, you name it, they’re on the platform.

00:40:05.769 –> 00:40:09.109
David: So the way that it works is all of the sessions are hosted over live stream.

00:40:09.429 –> 00:40:23.829
David: So all of the revisions and feedback and all of the different little, hey, would you mind moving to the ride symbol for the fourth bar, or would you mind finger plucking instead of using a pick?

00:40:23.849 –> 00:40:29.849
David: All of those types of creative choices can happen quite literally as if the musician is in the room just done over live stream.

00:40:30.309 –> 00:40:31.509
John Kennedy: It sounds amazing.

00:40:31.649 –> 00:40:33.549
John Kennedy: In a way, the clue is in the name, Musiversal.

00:40:33.709 –> 00:40:42.969
John Kennedy: It means that whether you’re a beginner or whether you’re somebody with a lot of experience, you can still get access to the same kind of level of musicianship and creativity.

00:40:43.209 –> 00:41:00.669
David: Yeah, it’s amazing because it allows the music to have expression on it and musicianship that, you know, if I’m sitting in my basement playing piano versus a piano player that’s played for, you know, Jay-Z or has been playing for 25 plus years, the material that comes out of that is going to sound night and day.

00:41:00.869 –> 00:41:01.609
John Kennedy: What does it cost?

00:41:01.949 –> 00:41:04.849
David: So the service is $200 a month, US.

00:41:05.109 –> 00:41:07.309
David: And included in that is all of the sessions.

00:41:07.409 –> 00:41:09.269
David: So there’s no additional fees or anything.

00:41:09.569 –> 00:41:12.369
David: You know, you get to book as many sessions as you can have per month.

00:41:12.709 –> 00:41:18.369
David: To put it in perspective, the average user probably books about five to seven sessions per month.

00:41:18.729 –> 00:41:22.529
David: But we actually have some users booking 10, 12, 15 sessions per month.

00:41:22.549 –> 00:41:24.769
David: So, I mean, you can do the math on 200.

00:41:24.789 –> 00:41:26.189
David: The deal really is awesome.

00:41:26.209 –> 00:41:30.669
David: And it allows people to work with incredible musicians and, you know, not break the bank.

00:41:31.609 –> 00:41:32.349
John Kennedy: It sounds great.

00:41:32.409 –> 00:41:34.949
John Kennedy: Can you remind us what the offer is for Tape Notes listeners?

00:41:35.189 –> 00:41:38.009
David: Well, look, we’re so thankful that you guys are having us on here.

00:41:38.389 –> 00:41:43.429
David: What we would love to do is offer 25% off per month for their first three months.

00:41:43.509 –> 00:41:46.049
David: And then the other cool part is they get to skip our wait list.

00:41:46.189 –> 00:41:48.249
David: So, you know, we usually run a wait list.

00:41:48.269 –> 00:41:49.389
David: It’s about two weeks long.

00:41:49.389 –> 00:41:53.689
David: But in this case, you know, finding us through this episode, you could have a session as early as tomorrow.

00:41:54.129 –> 00:41:54.749
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

00:41:54.889 –> 00:41:59.069
John Kennedy: And to get the offer, all you have to do is find the link in any of our recent episode show notes.

00:41:59.349 –> 00:42:05.809
John Kennedy: David, thank you so much for speaking to us and maybe one day we’ll be talking about a piece of music that’s been created using Musiversal.

00:42:06.009 –> 00:42:06.969
David: That would be incredible.

00:42:06.989 –> 00:42:08.029
David: We cannot wait for that day.

00:42:10.929 –> 00:42:15.089
John Kennedy: So the next song we’re going to look at is Apple and Charli is going to press play.

00:43:14.354 –> 00:43:17.554
John Kennedy: It is Apple by Charli XCX from Brat.

00:43:18.174 –> 00:43:32.254
John Kennedy: And I’m intrigued to know what kind of methodology you approach things with, Charli, because I get the impression that you’re so full of ideas that you could hear anything and think, oh, right, oh, and then kind of respond to it and come out with a whole stream of different ideas.

00:43:32.274 –> 00:43:34.614
John Kennedy: I mean, or do you need that stimulus?

00:43:34.754 –> 00:43:38.214
John Kennedy: Or are you going to George or Alex and saying, I want to do this?

00:43:38.234 –> 00:43:41.174
John Kennedy: I mean, obviously, we’ve discussed about the whole concept of Brat.

00:43:41.294 –> 00:43:47.014
John Kennedy: So there’s all this world in place in your mind when you’re thinking of the songs for this record.

00:43:47.354 –> 00:44:16.834
Charli XCX: Yeah, I mean, I think generally in the past, it was very much more than not me kind of responding to a track that either was being made right there in the moment spearheaded by Alex or whoever and like, you know, helped along by ideas, sonic ideas in my brain, or it was, you know, a kind of more fully formed track that I would respond to.

00:44:17.394 –> 00:44:26.154
Charli XCX: But actually, this time round, I think I struggled to kind of write like that all the time.

00:44:27.214 –> 00:44:49.994
Charli XCX: Previously, you know, I would kind of jump on a track, ad lib a load of stuff, a lot of nonsense, just like, and then I would kind of like write lyrics to the random sort of vowel sounds that I was singing, which I think is kind of like the Max Martin-ish sort of take on things.

00:44:50.014 –> 00:44:57.234
Charli XCX: Sometimes like he would always like fit the vowel sounds that were already naturally there in the kind of like scratch takes.

00:44:57.914 –> 00:45:07.894
Charli XCX: Whereas with this record, it was so much more led by the lyrics that I was writing separately without any musical accompaniment.

00:45:08.594 –> 00:45:18.134
Charli XCX: And so that kind of like threw a bit of a spanner in the works really for the way that, especially you and I kind of used to do sessions, I suppose.

00:45:18.594 –> 00:45:24.574
Charli XCX: Like to the point where actually I would get quite like down on some, there was that one session in particular, do you remember?

00:45:24.594 –> 00:45:25.494
Charli XCX: I was so miserable.

00:45:25.514 –> 00:45:26.294
A.G. Cook: Just the one, yeah.

00:45:27.114 –> 00:45:27.914
A.G. Cook: No, I’m joking.

00:45:27.934 –> 00:45:29.734
A.G. Cook: I mean, you know, it was so important.

00:45:29.754 –> 00:45:32.534
Charli XCX: There was one main one where I was really grumpy though.

00:45:32.554 –> 00:45:37.494
A.G. Cook: But it’s also because you were like, oh, I’ve run out of ideas as meaningful to me as the other ones.

00:45:37.494 –> 00:45:37.814
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:45:37.834 –> 00:45:40.794
A.G. Cook: You have that high bar of like, it isn’t just writing stuff.

00:45:40.814 –> 00:45:43.454
A.G. Cook: It’s like it all has to have its own zone.

00:45:43.474 –> 00:45:46.054
A.G. Cook: It has to really mean something completely vivid.

00:45:46.754 –> 00:45:58.154
Charli XCX: Yeah, it just it was kind of handy to really be so lyrically led because it really just kind of what’s the phrase about wheat, wheat from the chaff.

00:45:58.794 –> 00:45:59.534
A.G. Cook: Oh, yeah, that one.

00:45:59.554 –> 00:46:02.834
A.G. Cook: Is that one of the lyrics on Apple, isn’t it?

00:46:02.914 –> 00:46:04.154
Charli XCX: Am I saying it correctly?

00:46:04.174 –> 00:46:05.614
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:05.634 –> 00:46:06.454
Charli XCX: Wheat from the chaff.

00:46:06.474 –> 00:46:08.174
George Daniel: Yeah, but I’m not defining it.

00:46:08.214 –> 00:46:10.134
Charli XCX: I also don’t really know.

00:46:15.554 –> 00:46:16.714
A.G. Cook: Comes in with two books.

00:46:16.714 –> 00:46:18.074
A.G. Cook: One’s got wheat on it.

00:46:18.834 –> 00:46:19.254
A.G. Cook: Chaff.

00:46:19.414 –> 00:46:20.714
Charli XCX: OK, anyway, whatever.

00:46:20.854 –> 00:46:21.854
Charli XCX: I mean, short.

00:46:21.874 –> 00:46:23.194
John Kennedy: Sort of the good from the bad.

00:46:23.214 –> 00:46:27.794
Charli XCX: It separates the sort of vague average lyric from…

00:46:27.814 –> 00:46:28.714
George Daniel: Is that all it means?

00:46:28.734 –> 00:46:29.454
George Daniel: Good and bad?

00:46:30.434 –> 00:46:31.614
A.G. Cook: I hope so, yeah.

00:46:31.654 –> 00:46:35.174
Charli XCX: It’s the excellent from the sort of average, right?

00:46:35.234 –> 00:46:36.854
Charli XCX: I mean, whatever, we don’t need to dwell on this.

00:46:37.474 –> 00:46:46.714
Charli XCX: It would then become very clear, like, OK, this really has a home on brat, whereas, like, this could be maybe a song that another artist could breathe some life into, you know?

00:46:46.734 –> 00:46:51.874
A.G. Cook: I think we parked some really legit songs simply because they didn’t fit that threshold.

00:46:51.894 –> 00:46:52.974
Charli XCX: Yeah, exactly.

00:46:54.234 –> 00:46:56.274
Charli XCX: On this record, it was very lyric led, basically.

00:46:56.294 –> 00:47:09.934
Charli XCX: So I would come in and be like, I have this song idea, I have these lyrics, maybe I even have this melody, maybe I even have, like, a really specific idea for the production.

00:47:10.114 –> 00:47:12.434
Charli XCX: Maybe in some cases, I have chord ideas.

00:47:12.474 –> 00:47:26.274
Charli XCX: But, you know, especially the way that we work, a song that we’ll speak about later, it’s very much about, like, this feeling, you know, and I will explain the feeling to you, and then you’ll kind of create the feeling sonically, you know.

00:47:26.294 –> 00:47:28.334
Charli XCX: So yeah, that was kind of the process.

00:47:28.714 –> 00:47:31.974
John Kennedy: And for Apple, the song that we’ve just heard and we’re going to look at now?

00:47:32.054 –> 00:47:38.294
Charli XCX: Yeah, for Apple, we were in Stockholm, George and I, when we started this.

00:47:38.434 –> 00:47:42.934
Charli XCX: And I was writing a lot of lyrics, like actually writing.

00:47:42.954 –> 00:47:50.534
Charli XCX: Normally I’d been like a notes app girl, but there was something kind of diuretic about this record that felt that I should probably just like use a pen or whatever.

00:47:50.974 –> 00:47:51.614
Charli XCX: So I did.

00:47:52.374 –> 00:47:56.794
Charli XCX: And I kind of had this, these lyrics.

00:47:57.374 –> 00:48:03.734
Charli XCX: And actually, I kind of had this vague melody in my head as well, which was this.

00:48:04.514 –> 00:48:06.614
Charli XCX: And we were working.

00:48:06.634 –> 00:48:08.934
Charli XCX: And by the way, tell me if I’m getting this wrong at all.

00:48:08.954 –> 00:48:14.514
Charli XCX: We were working at my friends Nouni and Linus’ house in Stockholm at their apartment.

00:48:15.334 –> 00:48:17.954
Charli XCX: And we’d been, they’d just had a baby.

00:48:17.974 –> 00:48:22.294
Charli XCX: So we were doing a lot of like day sessions that would kind of end at six or something.

00:48:23.114 –> 00:48:27.054
Charli XCX: And this was a song that we just sort of started at their kitchen table, really.

00:48:27.054 –> 00:48:30.294
Charli XCX: Like, did you have these chords or did Linus have them?

00:48:30.294 –> 00:48:34.514
George Daniel: I had the drums, bass and chords on the plane.

00:48:34.774 –> 00:48:37.314
Charli XCX: And it’s interesting.

00:48:37.334 –> 00:48:39.774
George Daniel: I’m trying to find something that’s older than…

00:48:40.654 –> 00:48:45.754
Charli XCX: It’s interesting because it feels very like Scandi in a way to me, this song.

00:48:45.794 –> 00:48:50.914
Charli XCX: Like if there’s like a Peter, Bjorn and John-ness to it or something.

00:48:51.054 –> 00:48:51.834
George Daniel: Sorry to interrupt.

00:48:51.854 –> 00:48:52.594
Charli XCX: No, no.

00:48:52.614 –> 00:48:56.634
George Daniel: The dryness of those chords is very like lo-fi F and K.

00:48:56.634 –> 00:48:57.714
Charli XCX: Right, totally.

00:48:57.714 –> 00:48:58.074
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:48:59.354 –> 00:49:08.874
Charli XCX: And then I actually hadn’t heard what you’d been working on in the plane, but you played it and I already kind of had this melody and it fit perfectly over what George had created.

00:49:08.894 –> 00:49:14.874
Charli XCX: But I remember I was a bit nervous about it because I’m still sort of convinced that I am, but you’ve said I’m not.

00:49:15.074 –> 00:49:19.614
Charli XCX: I’m so convinced I’m ripping off an Amber song, a Japanese house song.

00:49:19.634 –> 00:49:21.094
Charli XCX: I’m so convinced.

00:49:21.214 –> 00:49:24.934
George Daniel: It’s just Amber Coded, but it’s just, I don’t know.

00:49:25.894 –> 00:49:29.254
Charli XCX: Well, she’s heard it now and she didn’t mention it, so it’s fine.

00:49:30.054 –> 00:49:30.554
Charli XCX: But yeah.

00:49:30.574 –> 00:49:33.034
George Daniel: Was it after you’d heard Bits of Her Record?

00:49:33.074 –> 00:49:33.834
George Daniel: I don’t think it was.

00:49:34.154 –> 00:49:36.574
George Daniel: I honestly just think that it’s opened up that.

00:49:36.634 –> 00:49:38.774
Charli XCX: I mean, I definitely heard the record.

00:49:38.794 –> 00:49:44.894
George Daniel: It’s also, I made it and I’ve worked on all of her music with her, and there’s probably some mutual ground there.

00:49:44.914 –> 00:49:51.194
A.G. Cook: When I first heard this, and I worked on it way later at the end quite briefly, but it already had such a George groove.

00:49:52.494 –> 00:49:53.814
John Kennedy: What can we hear?

00:49:53.834 –> 00:49:55.614
John Kennedy: Let’s hear some stuff.

00:49:56.734 –> 00:50:09.394
George Daniel: This is a demo from sort of, I’m struggling to find the early one from Sweden because I’ve since changed my computer, but I found one on my phone, which is like just after Sweden.

00:50:09.414 –> 00:50:12.954
George Daniel: I think Linus looked at it a bit, then sent it to me.

00:50:13.614 –> 00:50:18.274
George Daniel: Then we were just tidying what happened in Sweden, which is this.

00:50:18.394 –> 00:50:20.974
George Daniel: And there’s a big gap in the middle and the structure is totally different.

00:50:22.294 –> 00:50:23.174
George Daniel: Yeah, it’s interesting.

00:50:23.254 –> 00:50:23.554
George Daniel: Here we go.

00:51:12.461 –> 00:51:14.161
George Daniel: His chords are much better than that.

00:51:16.621 –> 00:51:17.761
George Daniel: No, he did the change.

00:51:18.321 –> 00:51:19.621
George Daniel: The minor change.

00:51:19.641 –> 00:51:20.261
George Daniel: That’s him.

00:51:20.581 –> 00:51:22.261
George Daniel: So yeah, he did the fancy bit.

00:51:22.681 –> 00:51:24.201
George Daniel: Mine’s just like triads.

00:51:28.061 –> 00:51:28.721
George Daniel: That’s Linus.

00:51:30.261 –> 00:51:30.681
John Kennedy: Linus.

00:51:33.781 –> 00:51:34.401
John Kennedy: No, that’s good.

00:51:35.061 –> 00:51:36.841
A.G. Cook: He’s sort of a long time collaborator.

00:51:38.241 –> 00:51:41.201
Charli XCX: He’s a long time collaborator and friend.

00:51:42.361 –> 00:51:45.021
John Kennedy: You’ve got all these different connections, probably around the world.

00:51:45.041 –> 00:51:46.921
John Kennedy: It’s like, you know what, we need a bit of Linus.

00:51:46.941 –> 00:51:47.801
John Kennedy: We need a bit of…

00:51:48.341 –> 00:51:50.461
John Kennedy: And just kind of send it around until…

00:51:51.221 –> 00:51:56.461
George Daniel: It’s funny as well because I don’t think I would have made this unless we were on the plane to Sweden.

00:51:56.648 –> 00:51:57.008
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:51:58.848 –> 00:52:01.348
John Kennedy: Well, I do think you were starting to make this…

00:52:01.528 –> 00:52:03.488
John Kennedy: You’re on the plane, you know you’re travelling to Sweden.

00:52:03.508 –> 00:52:12.728
John Kennedy: You start coming up with this thing that Charli has described as kind of Scandi and the words that you had come up, you were kind of saying they fit into that world as well.

00:52:13.548 –> 00:52:17.048
John Kennedy: Just the very destination, the act of going to Sweden make you think in this way.

00:52:17.068 –> 00:52:17.228
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:52:17.248 –> 00:52:20.368
George Daniel: I think it’s like, okay, I’ve got to make something minimal, chic.

00:52:20.368 –> 00:52:21.268
George Daniel: It can’t be big.

00:52:21.288 –> 00:52:22.568
George Daniel: The drums can’t be really heavy.

00:52:22.588 –> 00:52:24.548
George Daniel: Like, going to Sweden, I’ve got to get it right.

00:52:26.548 –> 00:52:36.428
Charli XCX: Well, I sing in a different accent in Sweden as well, so it’s no, seriously, it’s a thing like my demo of I Love It, which I made in Sweden, I’m literally singing, I love it.

00:52:38.468 –> 00:52:39.668
George Daniel: I didn’t expect that.

00:52:40.168 –> 00:52:41.268
Charli XCX: No, I just did that.

00:52:41.288 –> 00:52:42.348
Charli XCX: And I don’t know why.

00:52:42.368 –> 00:52:44.168
Charli XCX: I just did it.

00:52:44.188 –> 00:52:45.848
Charli XCX: I thought it was hooky.

00:52:45.868 –> 00:52:46.908
Charli XCX: I thought it was hooky.

00:52:46.908 –> 00:52:47.668
George Daniel: I think it worked.

00:52:50.008 –> 00:52:50.948
George Daniel: Did it right.

00:52:50.968 –> 00:52:52.948
John Kennedy: So what happened next then?

00:52:53.028 –> 00:52:55.828
John Kennedy: I mean, in terms of the evolution of the song, because so much is already there.

00:52:56.208 –> 00:52:56.668
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:52:56.688 –> 00:52:59.268
George Daniel: I mean, it’s like the drums, bass chords are there.

00:52:59.288 –> 00:53:01.368
George Daniel: The chord change is there.

00:53:01.748 –> 00:53:20.148
Charli XCX: Yeah, but it’s interesting that you say so much is already there because I personally feel like this was one of the hardest songs to crack on the record because I think, you know, its personality is quite different from a lot of the other tracks on the record.

00:53:20.268 –> 00:53:24.608
Charli XCX: Historically, it’s about something quite different.

00:53:24.968 –> 00:53:27.268
George Daniel: There was a moment where this might not have been on the record.

00:53:27.288 –> 00:53:28.888
Charli XCX: Yeah, it almost got kicked off.

00:53:29.128 –> 00:53:31.488
John Kennedy: I mean, I was because it’s not bratty enough.

00:53:33.088 –> 00:53:35.348
George Daniel: Well, it’s fine.

00:53:35.368 –> 00:53:36.908
Charli XCX: You can say it.

00:53:36.928 –> 00:53:39.628
Charli XCX: Yeah, I think it was it was sort of the odd one out.

00:53:39.648 –> 00:53:48.808
Charli XCX: But then eventually I kind of came to the decision that actually it was kind of cool to have an odd one out and that that in itself was sort of brat coded, I suppose.

00:53:49.428 –> 00:53:50.288
Charli XCX: But yeah.

00:53:50.708 –> 00:54:00.088
A.G. Cook: I think it’s still quite meaningful as you know, like, I think it at least hit that sort of bar of like this is even if it’s more metaphorical, it’s something that’s like is connected.

00:54:00.148 –> 00:54:01.388
Charli XCX: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:01.408 –> 00:54:07.268
George Daniel: And the narrative, it’s the lyrics were really strong and just like it, yeah, I don’t know.

00:54:07.408 –> 00:54:12.308
Charli XCX: Yeah, you always really loved the lyrics and I think that really kind of spread me on.

00:54:12.328 –> 00:54:16.228
George Daniel: I remember you being like nervous to tell me that maybe it wouldn’t be on the record.

00:54:16.248 –> 00:54:20.128
George Daniel: And I was like, it’s fine, it doesn’t sound anything like the rest of the album.

00:54:20.148 –> 00:54:22.248
Charli XCX: You were like a bit upset for a second.

00:54:22.448 –> 00:54:27.488
George Daniel: Well, yeah, just because it’s like I think we just worked on it and we were really excited.

00:54:27.508 –> 00:54:28.328
Charli XCX: We were.

00:54:28.348 –> 00:54:33.148
Charli XCX: And I’ve been listening to it and I was like, this is a modern classic.

00:54:33.168 –> 00:54:47.748
Charli XCX: We’ve been through a process with this because it took us a long time to like get the structure, especially towards the end of sort of like the middle third of the song, which is kind of where you came in.

00:54:47.768 –> 00:54:52.868
George Daniel: Yeah, I’m going to play like that middle section and just it’s going to feel very different.

00:54:53.048 –> 00:55:14.448
Charli XCX: We needed to sort of I was sort of like looking for it to transform from this quite sweet, chic, Swedish thing into this kind of like angst moment and we were struggling a bit with the Swedes to get there, you know.

00:55:14.868 –> 00:55:19.048
Charli XCX: So we came back to LA and that’s when we kind of like started working on it.

00:55:19.068 –> 00:55:23.548
Charli XCX: And actually, I think we worked on this around the same time as Club Classics.

00:55:23.568 –> 00:55:24.088
A.G. Cook: Yeah, definitely.

00:55:24.108 –> 00:55:25.308
Charli XCX: Like maybe the same day or?

00:55:27.288 –> 00:55:33.468
George Daniel: I was still on tour, I think, giving the day after the same day or something, same room, same vibe.

00:55:33.488 –> 00:55:33.988
Charli XCX: Yeah, yeah.

00:55:35.328 –> 00:55:40.008
Charli XCX: So then I think once we kind of like all got together on it, we began to like unlock this more.

00:55:40.008 –> 00:55:44.628
A.G. Cook: And you were still rewriting lyrics or adding bits and making the structure a bit more complex.

00:55:44.628 –> 00:55:46.448
Charli XCX: Yeah, you added a great lyric.

00:55:46.628 –> 00:55:47.868
A.G. Cook: I did write some lyrics.

00:55:47.888 –> 00:55:48.208
Charli XCX: Yeah.

00:55:48.528 –> 00:55:50.288
Charli XCX: It was one that could have been really cringe.

00:55:50.308 –> 00:55:51.308
George Daniel: All the apples come in before.

00:55:52.828 –> 00:55:56.348
A.G. Cook: I had a whole album called Apple, so I had a lot of time to think about it.

00:55:56.368 –> 00:56:01.668
Charli XCX: Yeah, which is also kind of like fun that this is on the record, like the Apple Connect, you know?

00:56:01.668 –> 00:56:04.268
A.G. Cook: Yeah, it’s confusing, but it’s great.

00:56:04.288 –> 00:56:06.848
George Daniel: This is like, let’s play like the whole mid.

00:56:07.308 –> 00:56:07.688
George Daniel: Yeah.

00:56:07.708 –> 00:56:15.848
George Daniel: So I think also we were finding it tricky to like, to find a solution to make it work, to find like this new transition, this new energy.

00:56:15.868 –> 00:56:25.468
George Daniel: And I think we couldn’t just throw stuff at it in an aggressive way that we might have done on other tracks because it was, you know, it’s like one big switch up.

00:56:26.208 –> 00:56:32.548
George Daniel: So yeah, it was very sort of tactile to be quite sort of careful with it.

00:56:32.568 –> 00:56:37.248
George Daniel: But yeah, this is what we ended up with after Day Without Lights.

00:56:44.323 –> 00:56:47.523
George Daniel: So this is the second chorus up to the chord change.

00:57:33.343 –> 00:57:36.803
A.G. Cook: Subtle riser there, yeah, very easy.

00:57:37.823 –> 00:57:39.123
George Daniel: The phones are hurt.

00:57:41.223 –> 00:57:46.423
John Kennedy: So in terms of all those different vocal things that are going on there, I mean, is that all done afterwards?

00:57:46.463 –> 00:57:49.403
John Kennedy: Is that something that you’re doing as you go along?

00:57:49.503 –> 00:58:02.863
George Daniel: That was all vocals that already existed in the track that Alex resampled, and the chord change section was there, but it was just like we didn’t have anything else apart from the chords changing.

00:58:02.883 –> 00:58:04.343
A.G. Cook: Yeah, so I motivated it.

00:58:04.463 –> 00:58:05.023
George Daniel: And then…

00:58:05.043 –> 00:58:08.963
Charli XCX: But I think I kind of knew that I wanted it to be this sort of like…

00:58:08.983 –> 00:58:09.743
Charli XCX: A giant crescendo.

00:58:09.763 –> 00:58:15.003
Charli XCX: Yeah, and this kind of like crazy like voices in your head type moment.

00:58:15.383 –> 00:58:27.263
Charli XCX: And also, I really am kind of, I mean, I don’t know if anyone else will interpret it this way, but there’s a part in that area where I’m really trying to do my best like Caroline impression.

00:58:28.663 –> 00:58:32.423
Charli XCX: Just that backing vocal that’s really going off, going crazy.

00:58:32.443 –> 00:58:34.603
Charli XCX: I really wanted to kind of…

00:58:34.623 –> 00:58:35.763
George Daniel: You’ve left me no choice.

00:58:36.183 –> 00:58:38.923
Charli XCX: Just don’t play it without any tune on it.

00:58:38.943 –> 00:58:39.383
Charli XCX: My God.

00:58:39.623 –> 00:58:41.583
John Kennedy: No, is this Caroline Polichek?

00:58:41.603 –> 00:58:42.523
Charli XCX: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:42.543 –> 00:58:51.963
Charli XCX: Because, you know, I love how she can kind of like switch her voice into this like quite like dynamic, truly instrument sounding instrument, you know.

00:58:52.363 –> 00:59:09.343
Charli XCX: And I think I really wanted to sort of attempt that kind of atmosphere in this part to kind of make it feel even more sort of like pushed and amped up, I suppose.

00:59:23.273 –> 00:59:25.833
Charli XCX: I was really trying with Caroline on the Apple.

00:59:40.213 –> 00:59:46.333
Charli XCX: That’s what I was going for.

00:59:46.483 –> 00:59:47.403
George Daniel: It’s really cool.

00:59:47.423 –> 00:59:48.323
A.G. Cook: Yeah, I didn’t pick up on that.

00:59:50.343 –> 00:59:55.723
George Daniel: There’s a lot of, what do you call it, musical prosody in that section.

00:59:56.663 –> 01:00:00.783
George Daniel: I’m sure that Matty’s probably said that on here before and now I look like an idiot.

01:00:01.583 –> 01:00:03.443
George Daniel: But it’s the cart.

01:00:03.883 –> 01:00:06.603
George Daniel: I remember you making the yellow Lamborghini.

01:00:07.023 –> 01:00:08.283
A.G. Cook: Right, yes, exactly.

01:00:08.303 –> 01:00:09.063
A.G. Cook: Yeah, yes.

01:00:09.103 –> 01:00:10.703
A.G. Cook: That is what I was referencing.

01:00:14.523 –> 01:00:19.843
George Daniel: We were sort of digging through our sounds and samples and we’re trying to wear…

01:00:19.863 –> 01:00:22.163
Charli XCX: Let’s not give the reasoning for that though.

01:00:22.623 –> 01:00:23.323
George Daniel: No, no.

01:00:23.723 –> 01:00:26.783
A.G. Cook: But in general, there’s a lot of Charli car songs, vehicle songs.

01:00:27.083 –> 01:00:27.723
Charli XCX: Yeah, of course.

01:00:27.743 –> 01:00:28.663
A.G. Cook: Everyone knows that.

01:00:28.683 –> 01:00:31.183
A.G. Cook: There’s a car law in the background.

01:00:31.203 –> 01:00:35.603
A.G. Cook: Yeah, so it’s exciting to think like, oh, she’s driving to the airport again.

01:00:36.943 –> 01:00:39.683
A.G. Cook: Let’s make it a little bit crazy.

01:00:39.703 –> 01:00:41.063
George Daniel: But you made this from scratch.

01:00:41.363 –> 01:00:41.783
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:00:42.163 –> 01:00:47.703
George Daniel: That one I had, which isn’t actually a car, it’s I made it, but this is Alex’s one’s great.

01:00:51.943 –> 01:00:53.723
A.G. Cook: Probably a similar patch to the other one.

01:00:56.463 –> 01:00:56.843
George Daniel: Yeah.

01:00:57.003 –> 01:00:57.523
A.G. Cook: Did I give you this?

01:00:57.543 –> 01:00:58.303
George Daniel: Yeah, the car rev.

01:00:58.383 –> 01:00:58.923
George Daniel: Oh, good.

01:00:58.943 –> 01:00:59.343
George Daniel: Yeah.

01:00:59.503 –> 01:01:00.103
George Daniel: Yeah, yeah.

01:01:00.723 –> 01:01:01.543
George Daniel: No, this one.

01:01:03.143 –> 01:01:04.183
A.G. Cook: That’s Hot Guy.

01:01:04.203 –> 01:01:05.703
A.G. Cook: Yeah, I recognize that.

01:01:05.723 –> 01:01:14.843
A.G. Cook: But yeah, it’s all, I mean, yeah, that’s it’s fun because that’s a very similar serum patch with just the wobbling and stuff moved, moving around differently.

01:01:14.863 –> 01:01:21.883
A.G. Cook: And yeah, it’s just those sounds just always, you know, for a second, it could almost be melodic again, which is what’s nice about it.

01:01:21.903 –> 01:01:29.243
George Daniel: But you always think that that stuff is so simple, but you’ve just used serum so much that you just sort of like, you know, that stuff just falls out of you.

01:01:29.263 –> 01:01:34.023
A.G. Cook: I used to hate that plug-in because of all the, all the too many dubstep presets, which are now kind of incredible.

01:01:35.163 –> 01:01:35.743
A.G. Cook: That’s what I’m saying.

01:01:35.763 –> 01:01:43.323
A.G. Cook: Yeah, I think it’s a, I used to be like scrolling through it and then, yeah, actually just clicking initialise and messing with it.

01:01:43.343 –> 01:01:44.643
George Daniel: The presets are pretty bad.

01:01:44.743 –> 01:01:50.283
George Daniel: I mean, I had to take off a lot of stuff to get that sound, it was like take off sequencer, take off delay.

01:01:50.303 –> 01:01:55.903
George Daniel: Why would you want to delay on the bass, like ruining the entire thing anyway?

01:01:55.923 –> 01:02:01.843
A.G. Cook: I think it’s fun for that, for everything that’s going on in that, you’re talking about the Caroline-ish vocal and the synth and everything.

01:02:01.863 –> 01:02:07.103
A.G. Cook: It’s just like, it’s all very expressive and over the top and then it’s still in this kind of groovy song.

01:02:07.123 –> 01:02:09.143
A.G. Cook: So I think that’s a nice tension.

01:02:09.523 –> 01:02:09.843
George Daniel: Yeah.

01:02:10.243 –> 01:02:13.903
John Kennedy: Should we move on to the next song or is there anything else we need to hear from Apple?

01:02:13.923 –> 01:02:14.963
George Daniel: I don’t think so.

01:02:14.983 –> 01:02:19.883
John Kennedy: So should we just do the, just hear the ending to his last 30, 40 seconds?

01:02:58.939 –> 01:03:03.319
John Kennedy: It is Appled by Charli XCX, and the next song we are going to look at is 365.

01:03:03.339 –> 01:03:03.799
John Kennedy: 6, 5.

01:03:06.599 –> 01:03:08.459
John Kennedy: Time for a quick Tape It feature highlight.

01:03:08.679 –> 01:03:11.139
John Kennedy: Did you know that while you’re recording, you can drop markers?

01:03:11.299 –> 01:03:13.239
John Kennedy: No more scrolling through endless voice notes.

01:03:13.479 –> 01:03:16.299
John Kennedy: Once you’ve finished, you can go back to the markers to find your best bits.

01:03:16.499 –> 01:03:19.999
John Kennedy: You can also name your markers if there’s a specific note you want to add.

01:03:20.279 –> 01:03:27.039
John Kennedy: To find out more, head to the link in a recent episode, Show Notes or use the promo code, Tapenotes, for 50% off Tape It Pro.

01:03:29.479 –> 01:03:31.359
John Kennedy: The next one we are going to look at is 3…

01:03:31.419 –> 01:03:35.859
John Kennedy: 6.5, the closing song on Brat, and Charli is going to press play.

01:04:36.879 –> 01:04:39.539
John Kennedy: A little taste of 365 by Charli XCX.

01:04:39.599 –> 01:04:41.159
John Kennedy: So this is the closing song on the album.

01:04:41.179 –> 01:04:42.559
John Kennedy: The album begins with Three, Sixty.

01:04:42.579 –> 01:04:47.999
John Kennedy: I think it’s began in a different way, more of a close collaboration between you, Charli, and Alex.

01:04:48.479 –> 01:04:53.099
Charli XCX: Yeah, I think I’m a bit muddled on how this came about.

01:04:53.299 –> 01:04:55.479
A.G. Cook: I think we just finished Three, Sixty, obviously.

01:04:55.539 –> 01:04:57.279
Charli XCX: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:57.359 –> 01:04:59.979
A.G. Cook: Which this one sort of riffs off.

01:05:00.039 –> 01:05:07.399
A.G. Cook: And I think I had that funny club night I did in LA quite soon after we wrote it, where Finn was DJing as well, I think.

01:05:07.459 –> 01:05:26.719
A.G. Cook: And so I think we were quite conscious while making this whole album over that time period to be either testing or teasing or using bits of it either small club nights or anything that we like DJ together or something to try use bits of that and maybe obscure it a bit.

01:05:26.739 –> 01:05:32.019
A.G. Cook: So it’s not like I was going to play the whole of Three, Sixty like a year before it was released.

01:05:32.659 –> 01:05:38.619
A.G. Cook: But I guess we just, yeah, excited by, I mean, Three, Sixty was so fun and so effortless in that way, you know.

01:05:38.659 –> 01:05:44.099
A.G. Cook: So I think I’d already prepared versions where it was sped up a bit and matched with other things.

01:05:44.119 –> 01:05:48.519
A.G. Cook: It was just looping and I kind of, so I had this sort of DJ version of that.

01:05:48.719 –> 01:06:05.899
Charli XCX: But did the DJ version come like on its own or was there a conversation about like, I wanna make a more like aggressive club, like bombastic version of Three, Sixty?

01:06:05.899 –> 01:06:07.279
Charli XCX: I can’t remember what the order was.

01:06:08.619 –> 01:06:12.899
A.G. Cook: I feel like because that club night was so soon after the session for Three, Sixty.

01:06:12.919 –> 01:06:17.059
Charli XCX: Yeah, you made the edit and then I started listening to the edit and I was like, I can’t imagine a song.

01:06:17.079 –> 01:06:18.159
A.G. Cook: I think so, there’s stuff for this.

01:06:18.219 –> 01:06:22.739
A.G. Cook: And like, I guess you literally heard the edit out and about and everything and it was all probably tied together.

01:06:22.759 –> 01:06:24.459
A.G. Cook: That’s my interpretation of it.

01:06:24.479 –> 01:06:26.859
A.G. Cook: That it was kind of like, oh, I’ve just got ideas.

01:06:26.879 –> 01:06:37.319
A.G. Cook: And we’d already talked about Brat being kind of, you know, remixing itself, eating itself, like having this whole like, yeah, dance music kind of version of itself.

01:06:37.339 –> 01:06:37.819
A.G. Cook: The whole time.

01:06:37.839 –> 01:06:41.359
A.G. Cook: And that’s even before Boiler Room, which then takes that really to another level.

01:06:41.379 –> 01:06:46.459
A.G. Cook: But so I think I’d and I’m always doing edits of things for Club.

01:06:46.479 –> 01:06:49.599
A.G. Cook: I like to think of like a show backwards and be like, what would the audience want?

01:06:49.619 –> 01:06:50.499
A.G. Cook: Who’s involved?

01:06:51.459 –> 01:06:52.119
A.G. Cook: What can I do?

01:06:52.139 –> 01:06:59.579
A.G. Cook: So I’ve got I guess I’ve got like a decade of edits and many Charli songs thrown into other songs and vice versa.

01:06:59.599 –> 01:07:03.279
A.G. Cook: So it was cool to do something that was like just new, just written.

01:07:03.299 –> 01:07:05.879
A.G. Cook: And then, yeah, that was starting point.

01:07:05.899 –> 01:07:08.339
A.G. Cook: I think you were kind of already writing over that.

01:07:08.719 –> 01:07:15.599
Charli XCX: Yeah, I was writing over this kind of DJ edit that Alex had made for this Club Night in LA.

01:07:16.399 –> 01:07:24.399
Charli XCX: And I remember I was driving in LA in my car and I was listening to it on repeat.

01:07:24.979 –> 01:07:42.119
Charli XCX: And one of the things from 360 that had been kept into this kind of edit that he’d made was the word bumping that, which in 360 is kind of about bumping that song, like you’re going to bump my song, whatever.

01:07:42.359 –> 01:07:43.699
Charli XCX: You want to play it all the time.

01:07:44.279 –> 01:07:49.539
Charli XCX: In 365, I suppose it took on a slightly more explicit meaning.

01:07:50.299 –> 01:07:55.039
Charli XCX: And I kind of like that switch up.

01:07:55.739 –> 01:08:00.319
Charli XCX: I guess it’s more frequent in 365 that I’m saying bumping that, bumping that.

01:08:00.919 –> 01:08:02.339
A.G. Cook: It’s more obsessive, isn’t it?

01:08:02.359 –> 01:08:05.119
Charli XCX: It’s obsessive, it’s a bit like crazy girl vibes.

01:08:06.159 –> 01:08:11.359
Charli XCX: But yeah, I think that was kind of the main thing that was kept in your DJ edit.

01:08:11.379 –> 01:08:15.999
Charli XCX: And I started just driving around in the car and I was filling in these gaps.

01:08:16.019 –> 01:08:23.839
Charli XCX: And I kind of liked that the call and response throughout the entire track was bumping that, bumping that, like all the time.

01:08:24.379 –> 01:08:30.359
Charli XCX: And then I started thinking about, okay, so these lyrics are kind of like about this crazy night out.

01:08:31.379 –> 01:08:38.439
Charli XCX: And I started to think about when you go to a party and you’re like, okay, I’m going to have a big night.

01:08:38.459 –> 01:08:41.079
Charli XCX: You start off, well, at least I do.

01:08:41.099 –> 01:08:43.259
Charli XCX: I start off feeling like really cute.

01:08:43.279 –> 01:08:46.099
Charli XCX: Like I’ve got my outfit on, like my makeup’s good.

01:08:46.119 –> 01:08:48.259
Charli XCX: Like I’m really feeling myself.

01:08:48.279 –> 01:08:50.119
Charli XCX: I think I look really hot, whatever.

01:08:50.139 –> 01:08:53.559
Charli XCX: And I like go to the party and I’m feeling like super cute.

01:08:53.619 –> 01:08:55.879
Charli XCX: And like the beginning of 365 is very that.

01:08:55.899 –> 01:09:01.259
Charli XCX: It’s very like whenever we work together, sometimes I’ll just be like, Alex, like I need the cute, like the cute chords.

01:09:01.279 –> 01:09:03.299
Charli XCX: Like you know exactly what I mean.

01:09:03.319 –> 01:09:04.999
Charli XCX: It’s 360.

01:09:05.019 –> 01:09:05.759
Charli XCX: It’s focus.

01:09:05.779 –> 01:09:06.579
Charli XCX: It’s unlock it.

01:09:06.599 –> 01:09:07.939
Charli XCX: It’s like those like chords.

01:09:07.959 –> 01:09:09.039
Charli XCX: I’m like, I need the cute chords.

01:09:09.439 –> 01:09:13.119
Charli XCX: So 365 very much starts in that world.

01:09:13.459 –> 01:09:24.779
Charli XCX: And then I kind of wanted it to go on this journey of a night out where I’m imagining I’m in this like super club and every door I go through, it’s a different room in the club and the room sounds slightly different.

01:09:24.799 –> 01:09:26.339
Charli XCX: And you can really hear that in the track.

01:09:26.479 –> 01:09:29.559
Charli XCX: And this is why I love working with Alex, like I can say that.

01:09:29.579 –> 01:09:31.739
Charli XCX: And he totally understands what I mean.

01:09:31.759 –> 01:09:40.619
Charli XCX: And so in each part of the club, in each part of the song, sorry, I’m going into different rooms where the music sounds slightly different.

01:09:40.639 –> 01:09:45.319
Charli XCX: There’s like one part where it feels like I’m kind of in the bathroom, like getting more fucked up.

01:09:45.819 –> 01:09:49.419
Charli XCX: And then I come back out and then the music sounds like a little bit different.

01:09:49.739 –> 01:09:53.059
Charli XCX: And then at the end, it’s like totally blown out.

01:09:53.079 –> 01:10:00.339
Charli XCX: And it’s kind of like this journey of a night out where at the end, you kind of become this girl who’s like, it’s like, oh my God, go home.

01:10:00.779 –> 01:10:02.079
Charli XCX: You’re being too crazy.

01:10:02.099 –> 01:10:03.639
Charli XCX: You stayed at the party for too long.

01:10:03.659 –> 01:10:06.539
Charli XCX: And the music is totally reflective of that.

01:10:06.539 –> 01:10:17.219
Charli XCX: And so for me, this song is, I don’t know, it’s a really good kind of, I don’t know, example of like our work together, I think.

01:10:17.239 –> 01:10:18.339
A.G. Cook: Yeah, and it’s very visual.

01:10:18.359 –> 01:10:22.219
A.G. Cook: It’s like zoomed out in that way where it has this sort of purpose and driving force with it.

01:10:22.239 –> 01:10:26.799
A.G. Cook: And it’s just fun after a track like 360, which is super tight.

01:10:26.819 –> 01:10:30.799
A.G. Cook: This one doesn’t really repeat other than the stuff that’s repeating the background.

01:10:30.799 –> 01:10:35.919
A.G. Cook: So it’s just, it’s always fun to have a song that is just a kind of odyssey.

01:10:35.939 –> 01:10:41.819
A.G. Cook: I feel like when I do remixes, I’ll often like keep the vocals intact, but everything around it just doesn’t repeat.

01:10:41.839 –> 01:10:43.039
A.G. Cook: It’s like a one-off thing.

01:10:43.059 –> 01:10:46.239
A.G. Cook: If you want to relive that, you have to just like listen again or something.

01:10:46.259 –> 01:10:48.739
A.G. Cook: It’s not, you’re not going to be like, oh, we’re back in the chorus or anything.

01:10:48.759 –> 01:10:49.879
A.G. Cook: You sort of are, you sort of aren’t.

01:10:49.899 –> 01:10:52.859
A.G. Cook: It just keeps rolling and anything could happen at any time.

01:10:52.879 –> 01:10:55.019
A.G. Cook: So it has a sort of weird lifelike quality.

01:10:55.339 –> 01:10:56.279
John Kennedy: I think we’ve got to hear this.

01:10:56.299 –> 01:10:56.979
John Kennedy: We’ve got to hear that.

01:10:56.999 –> 01:10:57.759
A.G. Cook: Well, yeah, let’s see.

01:10:57.779 –> 01:10:59.899
Charli XCX: Maybe we should go through some of the different rooms.

01:11:00.179 –> 01:11:01.019
A.G. Cook: Yeah, definitely.

01:11:01.079 –> 01:11:02.419
A.G. Cook: I mean, I…

01:11:02.779 –> 01:11:06.599
Charli XCX: There’s definitely a Daft Punk room in there.

01:11:06.959 –> 01:11:07.219
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:11:07.239 –> 01:11:11.879
A.G. Cook: I mean, I basically, so yeah, I guess a session I’ve tidied up slightly in the Brack colours.

01:11:12.119 –> 01:11:12.499
A.G. Cook: Nice.

01:11:12.779 –> 01:11:13.579
A.G. Cook: But this is…

01:11:14.219 –> 01:11:14.819
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:11:14.839 –> 01:11:16.259
John Kennedy: What are the Brack colours for anybody, doesn’t it?

01:11:16.319 –> 01:11:20.039
A.G. Cook: Well, there’s the Brack green and then there’s the Brack green European version.

01:11:22.579 –> 01:11:25.779
A.G. Cook: Then there’s the Britpop t-shirt green.

01:11:27.159 –> 01:11:27.899
A.G. Cook: It’s all a bit…

01:11:28.259 –> 01:11:28.679
A.G. Cook: Green.

01:11:28.979 –> 01:11:29.959
A.G. Cook: Green, yeah.

01:11:30.599 –> 01:11:34.739
A.G. Cook: So the other thing I do with this is sped it up by one semitone, which is a very logic thing.

01:11:34.759 –> 01:11:37.159
A.G. Cook: It’s very speed, so it’s like using a tape deck.

01:11:37.479 –> 01:11:49.339
A.G. Cook: It means that it goes from 120 BPM, which is the really standard tempo that 360 is at, to 127.136 BPM, which I find is just right for this kind of thing.

01:11:49.359 –> 01:11:55.459
A.G. Cook: No, but I’m bumping up a semitone, which is just a bit like you do it on a deck as well.

01:11:55.479 –> 01:11:57.539
A.G. Cook: You know, it’s just a little bit faster.

01:11:57.559 –> 01:11:59.319
A.G. Cook: It’s faster and pitched up already.

01:11:59.659 –> 01:12:02.159
A.G. Cook: So Charli’s vocals aren’t pitched up in that way.

01:12:02.359 –> 01:12:05.759
A.G. Cook: She’s doing it over the tape deck version.

01:12:05.779 –> 01:12:09.819
A.G. Cook: So yeah, it’s just…

01:12:09.839 –> 01:12:12.219
A.G. Cook: It’s not even the final version of the 60 this.

01:12:12.239 –> 01:12:16.559
A.G. Cook: It’s like the session instrumental, which is similar.

01:12:17.279 –> 01:12:19.259
A.G. Cook: And I’ve split up.

01:12:19.779 –> 01:12:21.959
A.G. Cook: So that bit’s pretty similar.

01:12:21.979 –> 01:12:24.799
A.G. Cook: And it’s got, you obviously got new vocals.

01:12:28.579 –> 01:12:30.819
Charli XCX: Yeah, I feel like this is a corridor.

01:12:39.739 –> 01:12:44.039
Charli XCX: This is like you’re walking down the corridor, you’re getting a little bit fierce.

01:12:44.279 –> 01:12:45.339
A.G. Cook: It’s just a room.

01:12:45.679 –> 01:12:47.139
Charli XCX: Now you’re in a room.

01:12:48.539 –> 01:12:53.819
Charli XCX: It’s pretty like rave-y, you’re still pretty coherent, but you’re going hard.

01:12:53.839 –> 01:12:56.299
A.G. Cook: Do you go back to another corridor or the same corridor?

01:12:56.319 –> 01:12:59.279
Charli XCX: Well, now you’re going to the bathroom, I think, here.

01:13:01.319 –> 01:13:01.919
Charli XCX: Bathroom.

01:13:02.299 –> 01:13:04.059
Charli XCX: Daft Punk room next door, though.

01:13:04.079 –> 01:13:05.579
A.G. Cook: Still bumping through the wall, yeah.

01:13:15.739 –> 01:13:30.759
Charli XCX: And now it’s like, oh my god, I’m in the mirror, like, wait, let me just do my makeup again, okay, now you’re like, stomping out the bathroom, corridor, it’s like a little bit like, where’s the Daft Punk room that we just heard, you know?

01:13:31.619 –> 01:13:41.639
Charli XCX: And then this part, I feel like it’s like, okay, I’m going to like, focus, like, know I’m really feeling myself, kind of a vibe, but then actually you get like, really sick, you know?

01:13:43.299 –> 01:13:51.999
Charli XCX: Like this part coming up is very like, whoa, like, did too much, like, it’s not going well for me.

01:13:52.339 –> 01:13:55.119
Charli XCX: There’s like an annoying friend who’s like, come on, Charli!

01:13:57.899 –> 01:13:58.519
A.G. Cook: You know?

01:13:59.359 –> 01:14:00.839
Charli XCX: And then you’re just like, fuck it!

01:14:01.999 –> 01:14:03.799
Charli XCX: But you like, look like shit now.

01:14:04.859 –> 01:14:05.219
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:14:05.899 –> 01:14:11.779
A.G. Cook: And this section never really resolves, it just sort of gets heavier and just keeps falling apart, you know?

01:14:11.799 –> 01:14:18.359
A.G. Cook: And it’s kind of crunchy at this point, like, especially my mix of it, which is before it’s mixed, but it’s already just kind of overloading.

01:14:20.919 –> 01:14:22.959
A.G. Cook: The vocals from earlier is just wasted.

01:14:24.359 –> 01:14:25.139
A.G. Cook: Like memories.

01:14:25.919 –> 01:14:26.379
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:14:26.859 –> 01:14:29.719
Charli XCX: Hellish memories.

01:14:29.719 –> 01:14:33.579
Charli XCX: Yeah, sorry, I gave a really technical explanation of what was going on here.

01:14:34.899 –> 01:14:39.599
A.G. Cook: And then, yeah, I mean, I guess it’s good to do a director’s commentary style.

01:14:39.619 –> 01:14:40.419
John Kennedy: Yeah, totally.

01:14:40.459 –> 01:14:41.759
George Daniel: I haven’t heard that.

01:14:42.399 –> 01:14:47.059
John Kennedy: I mean, we lived that whole experience, you know, of one night condensed into just a few minutes.

01:14:47.079 –> 01:14:47.439
George Daniel: Yeah.

01:14:47.459 –> 01:14:49.299
A.G. Cook: So that’s really announcing, no repeats.

01:14:49.319 –> 01:14:52.619
A.G. Cook: The sounds are sort of inconsistent, I’m not even necessarily…

01:14:52.759 –> 01:15:00.519
A.G. Cook: They are referencing this 909 palette that George mentioned, that I was very, like, every time someone asked me anything about, like, what’s the starting point, where are we going?

01:15:00.539 –> 01:15:06.919
A.G. Cook: I was like, oh, anything, but 99 drums, maybe just because it has that kind of era of dance music and it’s not…

01:15:07.119 –> 01:15:09.839
A.G. Cook: It can be both heavy and a bit brittle, you know, which is cool.

01:15:10.079 –> 01:15:12.399
A.G. Cook: But even that doesn’t really stay the same.

01:15:12.419 –> 01:15:35.979
A.G. Cook: I’ve got different versions of it happening, you know, it’s like sort of classic and then a bit heavier and weirder and that’s got, like, you know, that’s a bit kind of paranoid what happens next in there and then by the end, I think you just have like a hard style sort of kick, you know.

01:15:36.339 –> 01:15:39.819
A.G. Cook: So even those versions, I’m like, I’m editing them a little bit.

01:15:40.159 –> 01:15:48.759
A.G. Cook: The funniest for me in a way is one of the sort of core synth part in the, I guess it’s the Daft Punk referencing one.

01:15:49.939 –> 01:15:57.039
A.G. Cook: This stuff, this is me like messing around with the actual synth live.

01:15:57.059 –> 01:16:00.919
A.G. Cook: I’d normally do everything in the box, but I wanted it to have this kind of messiness.

01:16:00.939 –> 01:16:01.439
A.G. Cook: What was it?

01:16:02.079 –> 01:16:06.939
A.G. Cook: It is the Mantha, the very unfortunately named synth called the Mantha.

01:16:06.959 –> 01:16:07.419
A.G. Cook: It’s done.

01:16:07.439 –> 01:16:08.479
A.G. Cook: I think it’s made in Portland maybe.

01:16:08.499 –> 01:16:13.179
A.G. Cook: It’s like their version of a SH-101 type thing.

01:16:13.679 –> 01:16:16.899
A.G. Cook: And you can really, it has a really aggressive filter in it.

01:16:17.159 –> 01:16:18.919
A.G. Cook: You can hear it points, it’s kind of grating.

01:16:20.659 –> 01:16:21.739
A.G. Cook: I think it’s after this.

01:16:33.519 –> 01:16:40.679
A.G. Cook: You’ve got all these other notes happening just from the filter, but it’s funny because yeah, like I said, I’m normally like automating it all in Logic and really figuring it out.

01:16:40.699 –> 01:16:46.059
A.G. Cook: And this is just me like messing with dials and like recording a take and chopping up slightly.

01:16:46.819 –> 01:16:55.939
A.G. Cook: But, you know, the same materialism backed up on other other synths to give it like a bit more heaviness, you know, a lot of stuff in in Reaktor basically.

01:17:00.659 –> 01:17:10.359
A.G. Cook: Yes, my Black Eyed Peas layer in there maybe, but it’s nice because all of those are made after the kind of jammy mantha session I had.

01:17:11.139 –> 01:17:11.539
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:17:11.559 –> 01:17:11.739
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:17:11.759 –> 01:17:12.399
A.G. Cook: Look at this.

01:17:12.419 –> 01:17:13.019
A.G. Cook: It’s decent.

01:17:13.139 –> 01:17:13.939
A.G. Cook: It’s decent.

01:17:14.859 –> 01:17:15.119
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:17:15.139 –> 01:17:15.359
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:17:15.379 –> 01:17:18.499
A.G. Cook: It comes with a sort of sticker of a manly panther, I think.

01:17:20.119 –> 01:17:22.419
A.G. Cook: That’s my interpretation of what they’re going for.

01:17:22.619 –> 01:17:24.699
A.G. Cook: But yeah, so it was just nice.

01:17:25.019 –> 01:17:30.179
A.G. Cook: Once again, there’s that sort of tension between an out of control sound and a very like dialed in one.

01:17:30.459 –> 01:17:38.779
A.G. Cook: And then, yeah, by the end, it’s just, you know, these kind of saw wave versions and that kind of aesthetic.

01:17:38.799 –> 01:17:40.939
A.G. Cook: I think we’re talking about satisfaction in general.

01:17:42.799 –> 01:17:49.299
A.G. Cook: It’s like the Fennese world stuff, but even that is like, you know, that kind of mix is so clean, right?

01:17:49.319 –> 01:17:52.559
A.G. Cook: So this is like someone trying to make that, but it’s a bit fucked, you know?

01:17:53.059 –> 01:18:03.239
Charli XCX: We were talking about it feeling really fucked, like really like blown out, kind of like drunk people listening to music, kind of, do you know what I mean?

01:18:03.259 –> 01:18:04.199
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, totally.

01:18:04.219 –> 01:18:09.719
Charli XCX: When I’m drunk and I listen to things in my headphones, it sounds insane.

01:18:10.059 –> 01:18:11.299
Charli XCX: Like it’s different.

01:18:11.519 –> 01:18:12.179
Charli XCX: Do you know what I mean?

01:18:12.239 –> 01:18:12.899
John Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

01:18:12.919 –> 01:18:13.859
John Kennedy: No, I totally understand.

01:18:14.519 –> 01:18:18.479
George Daniel: Also, noise cancelling headphones when you’re drunk are horrible.

01:18:18.499 –> 01:18:23.879
Charli XCX: It’s like a different song and then you listen to them when you haven’t had drinks and you’re like, oh, right, yeah.

01:18:24.079 –> 01:18:31.119
John Kennedy: And to do that, Alex, what do you have to do to be able to translate that idea into reality?

01:18:31.139 –> 01:18:32.479
A.G. Cook: It’s a lot of imagination for me.

01:18:32.499 –> 01:18:33.699
A.G. Cook: I don’t get that wasted.

01:18:33.719 –> 01:18:58.079
Charli XCX: Well, yeah, this is also what’s really funny is like, you don’t really like party that much in that kind of a way, you know, not that you have an effort, but like, there is like a lot of like, yeah, me being like, well, yeah, when I’m like really fucked up and every all the high end is like, you know, like that kind of thing, because, yeah, you don’t really like go like, go hard in the way that I sometimes do.

01:18:58.099 –> 01:19:00.159
A.G. Cook: No, but I think I think you get it.

01:19:00.179 –> 01:19:02.319
Charli XCX: You’ve been around a lot of really wasted people, myself included.

01:19:03.499 –> 01:19:08.699
A.G. Cook: Yeah, yeah, I’ve been shepherding hundreds of drunk people, making them make albums.

01:19:08.719 –> 01:19:09.019
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:19:09.379 –> 01:19:12.779
George Daniel: No, I mean, I think she’s just trying to get them in the studio at the end of the night.

01:19:12.799 –> 01:19:13.299
George Daniel: Yeah.

01:19:13.719 –> 01:19:14.979
A.G. Cook: I mean, that used to happen.

01:19:14.999 –> 01:19:15.539
A.G. Cook: That was the thing.

01:19:15.559 –> 01:19:17.639
A.G. Cook: I mean, that is a little bit of my London life.

01:19:17.659 –> 01:19:18.079
George Daniel: Yeah.

01:19:18.099 –> 01:19:18.579
A.G. Cook: Having friends.

01:19:18.579 –> 01:19:24.059
A.G. Cook: I mean, a studio worked in at one point and Seven Sisters had a club next to it that we were doing pop too.

01:19:24.419 –> 01:19:26.479
A.G. Cook: So we would we would be working a pop too thing.

01:19:26.499 –> 01:19:31.559
A.G. Cook: And then I think I did once DJ in the same night or we just go see something else, go back and forth.

01:19:32.119 –> 01:19:37.039
A.G. Cook: Definitely my experience working with Sophie in Berlin, occasionally just coming in and out of places.

01:19:37.659 –> 01:19:43.699
A.G. Cook: Yeah, I think and also when I’m DJing, I think I do have a bit of that spirit, just no pun intended for sure there.

01:19:43.719 –> 01:19:47.519
A.G. Cook: But I just mean, like letting it be chaotic, like not worrying about it.

01:19:47.539 –> 01:19:53.959
A.G. Cook: You know, I’m barely ever wearing headphones when I’m DJing and I am I’m not even fully mixing but I’m like playing the tracks into each other.

01:19:53.979 –> 01:19:54.739
A.G. Cook: I’m pitching them up.

01:19:54.759 –> 01:19:57.319
A.G. Cook: I’m doing that kind of I’m letting it clip a bit.

01:19:57.539 –> 01:19:59.039
A.G. Cook: I’m getting into that headspace.

01:19:59.059 –> 01:20:07.719
A.G. Cook: I think a lot of this is also me trying to, yeah, not only that it started DJ edit, but I was probably messing with effects while DJing and messing with echo, messing with all that kind of stuff.

01:20:07.739 –> 01:20:18.099
A.G. Cook: So for me, that’s the sort of chaos and you know, if I am doing that at a club night, I know it’s all a bit messy and so it’s, yeah, translating it to that but it’s yeah, it’s really cool.

01:20:18.119 –> 01:20:31.379
A.G. Cook: I mean, I was really pushing it being the last track and 360 being the first track and that whole and it’s funny because there’s a way of doing it where we could have like slowed it back down and made it this like perfect loop or whatever or like and it just becomes that.

01:20:31.399 –> 01:20:46.059
A.G. Cook: Yeah, there’s a bit more of a corny way of doing that but I really like that it just like leaves you abruptly but you can go back and listen to 360 if you want and get back all the way and even that abrupt end where it’s just the vocal interrupting whatever tale happens.

01:20:46.079 –> 01:20:57.159
A.G. Cook: I just, all of that stuff feeling really intentional and I think across all of these tracks, there’s a lot of intentional silences, this extreme punctuation that I kind of associate with your stuff anyway.

01:20:57.739 –> 01:21:02.919
A.G. Cook: So, yeah, I think it was just fun to be quite focused and indulgent with this and it was a relatively late one.

01:21:02.939 –> 01:21:07.579
A.G. Cook: We already knew a lot of what was happening with the album at this point.

01:21:08.099 –> 01:21:23.479
A.G. Cook: So it was just, it needed something a bit like this and I think it’s now that people have heard all these like the Boiler Room edits, all these other things, I think this also leans close to that universe, the extended Brat edit remix world, which is I think really important to the album.

01:21:23.639 –> 01:21:32.299
A.G. Cook: Yeah, I think we kept thinking about making tracks that would have versions, you know, then there’s Finn’s version of 365, right?

01:21:32.319 –> 01:21:36.619
A.G. Cook: Where he then goes all in on Party Girl and then that becomes Party Girl Club Night thing.

01:21:36.639 –> 01:21:42.279
A.G. Cook: So it’s like constant dialogue and people zooming in on little lyrics and then making something out of that.

01:21:42.439 –> 01:21:45.639
Charli XCX: So it’s about 25 versions of Club Classics.

01:21:45.699 –> 01:21:47.379
A.G. Cook: Yeah, yeah, why not though?

01:21:47.399 –> 01:22:01.979
A.G. Cook: I mean, I think that’s I think I’m really obsessed with material being more than just something on streaming or whatever, you know, that it exists out in the world, whether it’s in a live show or people doing covers or edits or radio mixes, SoundCloud mixes, their versions to all that stuff.

01:22:01.999 –> 01:22:08.679
A.G. Cook: I think I even remember some you mentioned Focus actually randomly, but your track Focus is all these remixes of it.

01:22:08.699 –> 01:22:10.939
A.G. Cook: It’s just sort of endless and it was never part of an album.

01:22:11.139 –> 01:22:17.179
Charli XCX: We actually started messing around with Focus in reverse yesterday on the plane.

01:22:17.319 –> 01:22:17.699
A.G. Cook: Yeah.

01:22:17.939 –> 01:22:19.919
Charli XCX: And so maybe we’ll do it.

01:22:19.939 –> 01:22:21.399
A.G. Cook: Was that Sokuf?

01:22:21.419 –> 01:22:21.679
Charli XCX: Yeah.

01:22:21.699 –> 01:22:22.639
A.G. Cook: But I think even…

01:22:22.659 –> 01:22:25.019
Charli XCX: No, but it sounds great.

01:22:25.039 –> 01:22:26.879
Charli XCX: And I think we’re going to do a track over it.

01:22:26.939 –> 01:22:29.279
Charli XCX: I don’t know what, but it was cool.

01:22:29.299 –> 01:22:31.759
A.G. Cook: But I think 360 is one of those as well.

01:22:31.779 –> 01:22:33.859
A.G. Cook: All these, a lot of the songs that…

01:22:34.119 –> 01:22:44.019
A.G. Cook: That’s my dream for any song that it can be more than just that one master, mix and mastered version is like immortalized on a record or semi-immortalized on streaming.

01:22:44.039 –> 01:23:02.479
George Daniel: It’s also a bit of a thing at the moment where dance music and club nights have really been accelerating back into the mainstream sort of since lockdown and stuff and like edits are like very trendy right now.

01:23:02.499 –> 01:23:20.819
George Daniel: I think because now DJ clips on social media are really ubiquitous and playing the songs like not good enough or something, so people always want like a little Easter egg or like a little different iteration and it’s really fun too.

01:23:20.859 –> 01:23:23.599
George Daniel: I think it’s a really cool place for culture to be at.

01:23:23.759 –> 01:23:30.479
A.G. Cook: It’s more accessible with the software being easier all the time, which I think is pretty good and also I think that’s kind of how our brains work.

01:23:30.499 –> 01:23:38.999
A.G. Cook: Like when we hear things, we’re latching on to sort of sticky part of it imagining, oh, even how genre operates is because we’re making all these associations.

01:23:39.319 –> 01:23:40.119
George Daniel: And yeah, you’re right.

01:23:40.139 –> 01:23:43.679
George Daniel: It’s a technology because you can just get AI to get you the stems.

01:23:43.699 –> 01:23:44.699
A.G. Cook: Yeah, yeah, right now.

01:23:44.719 –> 01:23:45.539
A.G. Cook: Yeah, exactly.

01:23:45.559 –> 01:23:48.559
A.G. Cook: You get the acapella to anything right now and whatever.

01:23:48.579 –> 01:23:54.679
A.G. Cook: So I think it’s for something like this for an album itself to egg that on a little bit with the kind of 360, 365.

01:23:54.739 –> 01:24:01.239
A.G. Cook: The fact that it’s not just 365 on some other album, but no, it’s like bookending the project, I think is really sweet.

01:24:01.259 –> 01:24:02.139
George Daniel: It’s confident.

01:24:03.399 –> 01:24:14.199
John Kennedy: So before we move on and I ask you the final set of questions, the questions we ask everybody who comes on tape notes, let’s head back to the club and experience the ending of 365 one more time.

01:25:12.027 –> 01:25:14.827
John Kennedy: So that is 365, the closing track on Brat.

01:25:15.087 –> 01:25:18.047
John Kennedy: So I know we’ve got to let you go, because you’ve got all sorts of things going on.

01:25:18.067 –> 01:25:20.507
John Kennedy: It’s the launch day, you’ve got launch parties to go to.

01:25:20.527 –> 01:25:26.207
John Kennedy: But I do want to ask at least one of our Patreon questions, because loads of questions have come in for you, Charli.

01:25:26.507 –> 01:25:29.087
John Kennedy: And the question I’m going to go for is from Russell Parks.

01:25:29.387 –> 01:25:34.667
John Kennedy: And he wants to know, what role do vocal effects play in your recording and writing process?

01:25:34.687 –> 01:25:35.827
John Kennedy: For example, autotune.

01:25:35.847 –> 01:25:38.807
John Kennedy: I know that you’ve mentioned autotune during our chat already.

01:25:39.147 –> 01:25:42.347
John Kennedy: Do you write with effects in mind, or do you add them in afterwards?

01:25:43.667 –> 01:25:46.667
Charli XCX: I write with, you know, it’s pretty simple for me.

01:25:47.467 –> 01:25:54.647
Charli XCX: You know, just sort of like classic reverb, maybe a little bit of delay, or maybe like very dry at points and the autotune.

01:25:54.667 –> 01:26:10.927
Charli XCX: But I mean, yeah, I think there’s, especially with when Alex and I work together, you know, you sort of morph and change my vocals in quite like incredible ways in some tracks that have, you know, become sort of like such an iconic part of my sound.

01:26:10.947 –> 01:26:13.887
A.G. Cook: Like how you’ll even see, I think like the end of Unlock It is doing some weird stuff.

01:26:13.907 –> 01:26:15.427
A.G. Cook: That’s now, that’s just how you sing it live.

01:26:15.447 –> 01:26:16.807
Charli XCX: Exactly, exactly.

01:26:17.207 –> 01:26:22.987
Charli XCX: And, you know, some really interesting, like pitch bend stuff that you do on like Talk Talk on this album.

01:26:23.047 –> 01:26:36.427
Charli XCX: And I think a little bit on the Lady Gaga remix that we did that will then kind of inspire me to like jump back on the mic and maybe, you know, play off something that Alex has like generated, you know.

01:26:36.967 –> 01:26:41.107
Charli XCX: So, yeah, I think it does affect my writing process, yeah.

01:26:41.107 –> 01:26:43.187
John Kennedy: Yeah, and you embrace it as something exciting to use.

01:26:43.207 –> 01:26:43.707
John Kennedy: Yeah, totally.

01:26:43.727 –> 01:26:45.547
Charli XCX: Well, it’s just another tool, yeah.

01:26:45.567 –> 01:26:46.167
John Kennedy: Yeah, totally.

01:26:46.827 –> 01:26:55.087
John Kennedy: We ask everybody about tech or instruments or something that you cannot write without or cannot live without with regard to a particular project or in general.

01:26:55.107 –> 01:26:58.127
John Kennedy: I mean, George has done this a few times, so we should know.

01:26:58.147 –> 01:26:59.927
Charli XCX: I mean, mine is obviously auto-tune.

01:26:59.947 –> 01:27:01.827
Charli XCX: I mean, that is like really just…

01:27:01.847 –> 01:27:03.187
John Kennedy: Do you write using a phone?

01:27:03.587 –> 01:27:04.987
Charli XCX: Honestly, not that much.

01:27:05.767 –> 01:27:09.647
Charli XCX: Like I said, I really was really actively trying to use a pen.

01:27:10.907 –> 01:27:11.227
Charli XCX: Yeah.

01:27:11.747 –> 01:27:12.707
Charli XCX: That’s my tool.

01:27:12.727 –> 01:27:13.267
Charli XCX: A pen.

01:27:13.287 –> 01:27:14.467
Charli XCX: I love that.

01:27:14.487 –> 01:27:15.387
Charli XCX: Super techie.

01:27:16.007 –> 01:27:21.227
Charli XCX: But yeah, I barely open my laptop ever, period, for anything.

01:27:21.247 –> 01:27:25.607
Charli XCX: Because often it’s just like I just get hacked and it gets me into trouble.

01:27:25.607 –> 01:27:31.627
Charli XCX: So I just like don’t really use, I don’t really store much on my devices at all.

01:27:32.387 –> 01:27:35.687
Charli XCX: So yeah, a pen and auto-tune would be mine.

01:27:36.287 –> 01:27:36.647
John Kennedy: Alex?

01:27:37.387 –> 01:27:41.787
A.G. Cook: Yeah, I actually, I tried to ban a plugin that we used a lot on our mixtape.

01:27:41.807 –> 01:27:44.567
A.G. Cook: So I’d used Razor, Reaktor, plugin a lot.

01:27:44.727 –> 01:27:45.807
A.G. Cook: It’s still a great synth.

01:27:45.827 –> 01:27:46.627
A.G. Cook: I still do use it.

01:27:46.647 –> 01:27:52.527
A.G. Cook: But it’s become the sort of iconic sound on a few, especially the mixtape era ones.

01:27:52.947 –> 01:27:57.727
A.G. Cook: And so I was like, for this album, let’s try and ban it and not make it as much of a thing.

01:27:57.867 –> 01:28:00.087
Charli XCX: We almost successfully fully banned it.

01:28:00.107 –> 01:28:01.047
A.G. Cook: Yeah, Finn kept bringing it back.

01:28:02.267 –> 01:28:03.427
A.G. Cook: Yeah, couldn’t resist.

01:28:03.787 –> 01:28:15.627
A.G. Cook: But not just that, it was actually nice to, I would, for every single track that I worked on in Brat, I was looking for one chaotic element kind of, usually maybe a monophonic synth or something out of the box or something.

01:28:15.647 –> 01:28:33.007
A.G. Cook: I’d always, like the jam I had on this one or I think they all have something or other, even with 360, I remember we put it through on a circuit synth, even though it was in my very logic MIDI, there was always thing for like one kind of out of the box chaotic thing that would maybe date it in a strange way and then I could sort of make it modern again.

01:28:33.027 –> 01:28:36.727
A.G. Cook: So I was always looking for something like that and not falling back on the classics.

01:28:37.647 –> 01:28:38.247
John Kennedy: Advice.

01:28:38.587 –> 01:28:49.307
John Kennedy: Have you got any advice for other people that you’ve picked up along the way, either from somebody else or lessons that you’ve learned that you’d want to share with other creatives?

01:28:49.927 –> 01:28:52.347
Charli XCX: Like in studio kind of stuff.

01:28:52.527 –> 01:28:53.927
John Kennedy: It could apply to anything.

01:28:54.487 –> 01:28:58.467
Charli XCX: Well, I guess I’ll speak on that as it sort of seems appropriate.

01:28:59.627 –> 01:29:10.027
Charli XCX: For me, I think it’s like, especially being a woman, sometimes it can be like really scary when you’re often in the studio with a lot of men, which really is like the norm.

01:29:10.127 –> 01:29:35.587
Charli XCX: And you know, I think I’ve been really lucky to work with guys who are like, really super, yeah, just like super supportive, like non-judgmental, you know, always really like 100% like, want to need to hear my thoughts, ideas, opinions to kind of get the song off the ground.

01:29:35.607 –> 01:29:46.607
Charli XCX: And you know, I feel like working with these two in particular, and you know, a lot of the people on this record, it’s like, there is no stupid question when you’re writing a song.

01:29:46.687 –> 01:29:57.767
Charli XCX: And especially, I think, working, you know, quite a lot of the time in LA, like sometimes I have felt when I’ve gone into a session that, you know, there is a stupid question.

01:29:57.787 –> 01:29:59.707
Charli XCX: And that is really just like not the case.

01:29:59.727 –> 01:30:17.407
Charli XCX: So I think, you know, that there’s no right or wrong way to create a piece of music as long as you’re just very open minded and receptive to any idea being the start of a possibility, as long as it’s an idea with conviction.

01:30:17.427 –> 01:30:19.067
Charli XCX: I think that’s really like the main thing.

01:30:19.087 –> 01:30:21.707
Charli XCX: And I think these two both really work like that.

01:30:21.727 –> 01:30:22.947
Charli XCX: And we work like that together.

01:30:22.967 –> 01:30:25.127
Charli XCX: It’s like there’s no stupid idea.

01:30:25.147 –> 01:30:32.687
Charli XCX: And often, even if people do think the idea is like a little bit silly, it’s probably like the most genius idea of the day really is kind of how it happens.

01:30:32.747 –> 01:30:36.107
George Daniel: Yeah, if you laugh, it’s either because it’s terrible or really good.

01:30:36.107 –> 01:30:36.687
Charli XCX: Yeah.

01:30:36.927 –> 01:30:37.367
Charli XCX: Yeah.

01:30:37.387 –> 01:30:48.147
Charli XCX: So I think my advice would be just like, don’t be afraid to like say that thing that’s in your mind that maybe you’re like, people are going to think I’m a little bit crazy for this one.

01:30:48.167 –> 01:30:49.787
Charli XCX: Like, it’s probably really great.

01:30:50.027 –> 01:30:52.447
Charli XCX: And you should put yourself on the line and do that.

01:30:52.467 –> 01:30:57.367
Charli XCX: And if people around you aren’t like willing to kind of like explore that idea, then don’t work with them anymore.

01:30:59.867 –> 01:31:00.607
John Kennedy: It’s quite simple.

01:31:01.687 –> 01:31:03.887
John Kennedy: Have you picked up anything, Alex, along the way or?

01:31:04.187 –> 01:31:05.547
A.G. Cook: No, I like that one a lot.

01:31:05.567 –> 01:31:07.487
A.G. Cook: Honestly, troll your way into genius.

01:31:08.467 –> 01:31:13.247
A.G. Cook: I think, yeah, I think, especially the way we work, always the humor is there.

01:31:13.267 –> 01:31:18.707
A.G. Cook: It’s not in this basic satirical like, oh, let’s take the piss out of this genre today or anything.

01:31:18.727 –> 01:31:20.147
A.G. Cook: It’s just like, I think there’s that.

01:31:20.167 –> 01:31:22.027
George Daniel: You know, the music is immensely serious.

01:31:22.047 –> 01:31:24.127
A.G. Cook: No, and it’s a lot of craft.

01:31:24.147 –> 01:31:32.347
A.G. Cook: I think it’s just, yeah, it’s, and I get asked a lot about sort of satire for some reason, but, you know, it’s true.

01:31:32.407 –> 01:31:43.567
A.G. Cook: No, I think it’s a, I like that there is an intrinsic sort of whimsy and weirdness to most music really, because it’s so abstract, there’s so much going on and so much potential.

01:31:43.587 –> 01:31:47.847
A.G. Cook: So there’s a lot of serious things actually have this kind of playful undertone.

01:31:47.967 –> 01:31:53.107
A.G. Cook: And I think, I think I’m always trying to find that in any, any collaborative or even stuff by myself.

01:31:53.127 –> 01:31:55.387
A.G. Cook: So yeah, I think that’s it.

01:31:56.087 –> 01:31:56.507
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:31:56.667 –> 01:32:00.147
John Kennedy: Thank you so much for being here, coming in and sharing all this stuff with us.

01:32:00.167 –> 01:32:00.707
John Kennedy: Thank you.

01:32:00.727 –> 01:32:02.067
John Kennedy: We could carry on for hours.

01:32:02.367 –> 01:32:03.667
John Kennedy: Unfortunately, we can’t.

01:32:03.767 –> 01:32:04.867
John Kennedy: You’ve got other things to do.

01:32:04.887 –> 01:32:08.827
John Kennedy: We’re going to end with another selection from the album, another track from Brat.

01:32:09.227 –> 01:32:10.187
John Kennedy: Do you have any suggestions?

01:32:10.207 –> 01:32:13.367
John Kennedy: I mean, I was possibly thinking of I think about it all the time.

01:32:13.467 –> 01:32:14.867
Charli XCX: Yeah, that’s a really interesting one.

01:32:14.887 –> 01:32:17.087
John Kennedy: Which seems to me to pave a whole new future.

01:32:17.607 –> 01:32:18.367
John Kennedy: In some ways.

01:32:18.387 –> 01:32:19.567
Charli XCX: Let’s do that.

01:32:20.307 –> 01:32:20.727
John Kennedy: Excellent.

01:32:20.747 –> 01:32:21.667
John Kennedy: Charli, thank you.

01:32:22.287 –> 01:32:24.287
John Kennedy: George, AG., Alex.

01:32:25.387 –> 01:32:27.507
John Kennedy: This is I think about it all the time from Brad.

01:32:27.667 –> 01:32:29.047
John Kennedy: This is Charli XCX.

01:32:49.248 –> 01:32:54.368
John Kennedy: Thank you for listening, and in particular, thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on Patreon.

01:32:54.648 –> 01:32:59.008
John Kennedy: I’m just one part of the team that brings you take notes, and it relies on your support.

01:32:59.148 –> 01:33:06.788
John Kennedy: Access to Patreon includes the full-length videos of new episodes where possible, ad-free episodes and detailed gear lists among many other things.

01:33:07.108 –> 01:33:10.528
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01:33:10.868 –> 01:33:19.588
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01:33:19.608 –> 01:33:21.088
John Kennedy: Once again, thank you for listening.

01:33:21.128 –> 01:33:22.468
John Kennedy: Until next time, goodbye.