Full Transcript:

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John Kennedy: Hello, welcome to Tape Notes.

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John Kennedy: Thank you for joining us.

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John Kennedy: This week, we’ve got a very exciting new episode for you.

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John Kennedy: Ciara Mary-Alice Thompson in full effect.

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John Kennedy: Yes, we talked to CMAT and producer Oli Deakin about the amazing new album Euro-Country.

00:00:13.940 –> 00:00:15.860
John Kennedy: It really was just so entertaining.

00:00:15.860 –> 00:00:19.180
John Kennedy: Ciara is such a lovely person and such a force of nature.

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John Kennedy: And the musical chemistry between her and Oli clearly is magical, and they’ve got a great way of working together.

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John Kennedy: We recorded the conversation at Platoon Studios, and we’ve had a nice run of recordings there.

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John Kennedy: It’s such an amazing space.

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John Kennedy: To watch the full video of the podcast, which includes screen capture of Oli Deakin’s sessions, just head to the Tape Notes Patreon page, patreon.com/tapenotes.

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John Kennedy: By joining as a patron, you’ll get access not only to the full video episodes, which often feature bonus conversations or behind the scenes shots, but also loads of extra content like episode previews, exclusive photos, gear lists.

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John Kennedy: And as you’ll hear on the show, we try and include as many questions from patrons as we can.

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John Kennedy: So if you have any burning questions for any upcoming guests, just head over to Patreon.

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John Kennedy: And if you’re already supporting Tape Notes on Patreon, a massive thank you.

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John Kennedy: We’ve got some exciting things in the works for you.

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John Kennedy: Thank you also to our partners at Tape It, the iPhone recording app for musicians by musicians, more on them and their brand new layering feature later in the show.

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John Kennedy: But if you’d like to try it out now, then just head to tape.it forward slash Tape Notes, search Tape It on the app store or click the link in the show notes.

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John Kennedy: But now without further ado, let’s get started.

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John Kennedy: Hello and welcome to Tape Notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music.

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John Kennedy: Every episode, we’ll be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio.

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John Kennedy: So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath.

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John Kennedy: Hello, I’m John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tape Notes is CMAT and producer Oli Deakin to talk about how they wrote, recorded, and produced the album Euro-Country.

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John Kennedy: Ciara Mary-Alice Thompson, otherwise known as CMAT, is an Irish singer, songwriter, and musician.

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John Kennedy: From a young age, Ciara aspired to become a professional musician, eventually relocating to Manchester to pursue her dreams as one half of the duo Bad Sea.

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John Kennedy: Her creative direction shifted after attending an in-person listening session with Charli XCX, who’s advised to start fresh with a new inspiration, encouraged Ciara to reimagine her approach to music.

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John Kennedy: Her debut album, If My Wife Knew, I’d Be Dead, arrived in early 2022, debuting at number one on the Irish album charts and earning acclaim for its fusion of Polish contemporary pop with vintage country.

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John Kennedy: The following year, she released her second album, Crazymad, For Me, which was praised for its detailed lyricism, earning nominations at the Britz, Mercury Prize, and Ivor Novello Awards.

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John Kennedy: Her third record, Euro-Country, was released in August 2025 with the early single Take a Sexy Picture of Me becoming a viral hit.

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John Kennedy: Oli Deakin is a British songwriter, musician and record producer.

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John Kennedy: As a producer, Oli is best known for his work with Ciara, having produced her debut album If My Wife Knew, I’d Be Dead, as well as the most recent Euro-Country.

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John Kennedy: Alongside this work, he has also collaborated with artists such as Eleanor Moss, The Wandering Hearts and with his own band Lopines.

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John Kennedy: Self-described as very quiet indie rock, Lopines have released several albums and have had songs appear in TV shows and movies, including BoJack Horseman, Teen Mom, Catfish, Pretty Little Liars and more.

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John Kennedy: Today, I’m at Platoon Studios and I’m joined by Ciara and Oli.

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John Kennedy: And what better way to start than by hearing something from Euro-Country.

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John Kennedy: This is Running Planning.

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John Kennedy: It is Running Planning by CMAT from Euro-Country, the new album, and I’m very pleased to say that I am with CMAT.

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John Kennedy: Hello, CMAT.

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CMAT: Hi, how are you?

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John Kennedy: I’m very well, thank you.

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John Kennedy: And I’m also with Oli Deakin.

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John Kennedy: Hello, Oli.

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Oli: Hello there.

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John Kennedy: So thank you for being part of Tape Notes today and talking about Euro-Country, which we’re going to take a deep dive into.

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John Kennedy: So this is the third CMAT album, Ciara.

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John Kennedy: What were you planning to do?

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John Kennedy: What was the intention?

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CMAT: Well, I wish I knew.

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CMAT: I had a whole different plan for my third record.

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CMAT: I was trying to gather up all of the kind of leftover songs from album one and album two initially, and make like a B-size compilation.

00:05:43.408 –> 00:05:44.648
CMAT: I was going to tie it all together.

00:05:44.648 –> 00:05:52.328
CMAT: It’s going to be like all random kind of higgledy-piggledy songs, and I was going to tie it together at like a theme of like daytime television.

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CMAT: I think I was going to call it the CMAT Omnibus.

00:05:55.708 –> 00:05:57.908
CMAT: This is like my original plan.

00:05:57.908 –> 00:06:10.348
CMAT: And then I had a very weird year in 2024, and it was like the first six months of the year was extremely catastrophic.

00:06:10.348 –> 00:06:11.668
CMAT: Is that?

00:06:11.668 –> 00:06:12.568
CMAT: Yeah, it was pretty bad.

00:06:12.568 –> 00:06:17.328
CMAT: It was pretty a lot of really crazy things happened in very close succession.

00:06:17.328 –> 00:06:25.248
CMAT: And it really focused my mind songwriting wise into being like, OK, an album.

00:06:25.248 –> 00:06:26.968
CMAT: You have to take an album seriously.

00:06:26.968 –> 00:06:30.588
CMAT: You have to try your best on every album to make the best album ever.

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CMAT: And I think it was the first time I wrote a record for maybe.

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CMAT: I hate saying this because I know it’s not very trendy in songwriters’ stations.

00:06:41.008 –> 00:06:43.788
CMAT: I think I wrote it for not myself.

00:06:43.788 –> 00:06:56.028
CMAT: I think I really wanted to have like a record of the time and a record of how I was feeling and make a big hypothesis with the record.

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CMAT: So like thematically, in the kind of literature, the record, I’m making a statement about like community, the lack thereof, how it’s ruining us all, how this current moment in time that we’re experiencing politically and socially is actually a very bad one.

00:07:17.448 –> 00:07:26.668
CMAT: And I spend a lot of the time on the record kind of talking about this is true, the allegory of the economic crash that happened in Ireland in like 2009.

00:07:26.668 –> 00:07:29.288
CMAT: Like that’s kind of a theme that comes up more so.

00:07:29.328 –> 00:07:30.228
CMAT: So I was 12.

00:07:30.228 –> 00:07:31.508
CMAT: It’s like my childhood.

00:07:31.508 –> 00:07:36.808
CMAT: I’m able to like really pull in a lot of like visual references that way.

00:07:36.808 –> 00:07:44.028
CMAT: Like I found it quite easy once I had the kind of angle, if you know what I mean, to like make all these songs kind of like stick together.

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CMAT: And it’s dealing with a lot of loss, dealing with a lot of like, I guess, questioning the fabric of reality, constantly begging for someone to explain everything to me because I don’t understand what’s going on right now.

00:08:02.088 –> 00:08:03.948
CMAT: It’s kind of desperate.

00:08:03.948 –> 00:08:21.328
CMAT: And yeah, so I don’t know what I intended to make, but I think I really, I think I knew what it was going to be before I landed in New York, but then we did like a month and then Oli went back to England for like three weeks, I would say, three weeks or something.

00:08:21.328 –> 00:08:22.548
Oli: Not even that, about two weeks.

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CMAT: Two weeks.

00:08:23.548 –> 00:08:28.148
CMAT: And I spent those two weeks entirely alone in that apartment in Bed-Stuy.

00:08:28.148 –> 00:08:32.788
CMAT: Because I kind of had like the first draft of what I thought the tracklist was going to be.

00:08:32.788 –> 00:08:41.068
CMAT: And I remember you, because I basically went up on landing in New York, went through all of my bits and pieces that I had lying around.

00:08:41.068 –> 00:08:42.148
CMAT: Some were full songs.

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CMAT: I was like, this is a definite, like Euro-Country was there from the start.

00:08:44.888 –> 00:08:45.948
CMAT: I was like, this is definite.

00:08:47.448 –> 00:08:54.628
CMAT: But then I had like, I remember I showed you like the Jamie Oliver Petrol Station, and I literally think I had like the first verse on the first.

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CMAT: Okay, don’t be a bitch.

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CMAT: The man’s got kids and they wouldn’t like this.

00:08:57.788 –> 00:08:59.088
CMAT: And that was all I had.

00:08:59.088 –> 00:09:01.428
CMAT: And you were like, finish that.

00:09:01.428 –> 00:09:02.048
CMAT: That’s amazing.

00:09:02.048 –> 00:09:04.228
CMAT: I was like, it seems stupid though.

00:09:04.228 –> 00:09:05.428
CMAT: And you were like, finish it.

00:09:05.428 –> 00:09:10.888
CMAT: So I kind of like had the first draft of what I thought the tracklist of the record is going to be.

00:09:10.948 –> 00:09:15.448
CMAT: You went away and then I kind of like did the cop.

00:09:15.448 –> 00:09:17.528
CMAT: Okay, I need to explain this.

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CMAT: In floristry, florists, people who make bouquets of roses, right, there’s something in floristry called the cop-on spot, which is like, you basically, you have your bouquet and you’re like, okay, around the outside, we do the greens.

00:09:33.068 –> 00:09:34.768
CMAT: You do the taller ones in the middle.

00:09:34.768 –> 00:09:43.248
CMAT: You do your pops of colour around the ring line of the, you know, you use all your different methods, like there’s different methods of constructing bouquet, right?

00:09:43.248 –> 00:09:48.068
CMAT: But then you do all those and then you have to fill in the cop-on spots.

00:09:48.068 –> 00:09:57.828
CMAT: So you have to use your instincts, your creativity and just your cop-on, like your common knowledge, like your kind of cop-on to fill in the gaps that are missing.

00:09:57.828 –> 00:10:07.208
CMAT: And so when you were gone for the three weeks, I filled in the cop-on spots and I wrote Jamie Oliver, Take a Sexy Picture of Me and what else?

00:10:07.288 –> 00:10:09.268
CMAT: There was something else that didn’t exist.

00:10:09.268 –> 00:10:10.248
Oli: What was the other one?

00:10:10.248 –> 00:10:11.788
CMAT: Was it maybe like Coronation Street?

00:10:11.788 –> 00:10:13.148
CMAT: Because that changed so much.

00:10:13.148 –> 00:10:18.368
Oli: That might have evolved a lot, because it definitely was around, but I think you did, you definitely dug deeper.

00:10:18.368 –> 00:10:32.868
CMAT: There was just a lot of like digging, digging to fill in spots on the record, to make it make more sense and taking stuff out as well, because we took out Nepotism Baby, because I was like, it’s too funny and it doesn’t make any sense in this sad, sad record.

00:10:32.868 –> 00:10:34.708
CMAT: And so there’s just like a lot of that.

00:10:35.508 –> 00:10:40.828
CMAT: I think it really made more sense the more we worked on it thematically.

00:10:40.828 –> 00:10:48.928
CMAT: And then I feel like your job was coming in and listening to me yap about the teams and being like, how do we make this make musical sense?

00:10:48.928 –> 00:10:51.488
CMAT: And that was, yeah.

00:10:51.488 –> 00:10:55.788
CMAT: So I don’t know what my intention for the record was, but I knew what it was as we were making it.

00:10:55.788 –> 00:10:56.348
John Kennedy: Yeah, sure.

00:10:56.348 –> 00:11:00.488
John Kennedy: But these are big, big themes and big, big concepts that you’re talking about.

00:11:00.488 –> 00:11:00.668
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:11:01.348 –> 00:11:09.168
John Kennedy: We should mention, so you went to Brooklyn, New York to stay with Oli because that’s where Oli is based these days and he’s working out of there.

00:11:09.168 –> 00:11:11.748
John Kennedy: Your relationship goes back quite a few years.

00:11:11.748 –> 00:11:12.788
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:11:12.788 –> 00:11:14.428
John Kennedy: 10 years maybe?

00:11:14.428 –> 00:11:16.048
CMAT: No, 11 or 12 now.

00:11:16.048 –> 00:11:16.408
CMAT: 11, right.

00:11:16.408 –> 00:11:17.468
Oli: I think it is, isn’t it?

00:11:17.468 –> 00:11:18.468
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:11:18.468 –> 00:11:23.708
John Kennedy: So this bond and this creative link has been running for a long time.

00:11:23.708 –> 00:11:26.468
John Kennedy: So was he your go-to person?

00:11:26.468 –> 00:11:32.628
John Kennedy: You were going to think Euro-Country or third album, I need to hook up with Oli and that’s why you go to New York.

00:11:32.648 –> 00:11:49.088
CMAT: Once I realised how serious a project it was going to be in my head, which was probably like, I’m going to say April 2024 after I finished my American tour, because we did this really big month-long tour of the US and it was intense.

00:11:50.348 –> 00:11:55.048
CMAT: And there was a time where we drove from California to Chicago.

00:11:55.748 –> 00:12:03.448
CMAT: So the tour bus spent two days driving through Arizona and I was staring out the window with my hand on the glass thinking about my whole life.

00:12:03.448 –> 00:12:05.908
CMAT: And obviously the third record.

00:12:05.908 –> 00:12:14.308
CMAT: And I think once I realised how serious it was going to be, I didn’t really want to make it with anyone else, because I didn’t think that I could talk to anyone else about it as easily.

00:12:14.308 –> 00:12:32.808
CMAT: I made my second record with somebody else, Matias Tellez, and he was so great, but there is just a difference between that and making a record with someone who you’ve known since you were 18, who’s seen you at your most annoying, and has been with you through everything.

00:12:32.928 –> 00:12:36.468
CMAT: I just trust him with my life.

00:12:36.468 –> 00:12:38.488
CMAT: He’s so good at music.

00:12:38.488 –> 00:12:42.548
CMAT: I don’t know anyone else that can do anywhere near.

00:12:42.548 –> 00:12:47.628
CMAT: I don’t even know anyone that can do even a quarter of the things that you can do so exceedingly well.

00:12:47.628 –> 00:12:51.108
CMAT: You kind of think about Oli and you’re like, yeah, he’s a great producer.

00:12:51.108 –> 00:12:57.208
CMAT: And then you’re like, oh, fuck, that man did all the bass lines on the first record and they’re fucking insane.

00:12:57.208 –> 00:12:59.568
CMAT: And it’s like, you don’t even think of you as a bass player.

00:12:59.568 –> 00:13:03.348
CMAT: You just kind of did it because we couldn’t afford anyone else to do it.

00:13:03.948 –> 00:13:10.068
CMAT: You’re so good at the bass and that’s on the ninth thing of things that you can do.

00:13:10.068 –> 00:13:11.288
CMAT: Do you know what I mean?

00:13:12.148 –> 00:13:13.228
CMAT: And he’s a great guy.

00:13:13.228 –> 00:13:13.908
CMAT: I love the guy.

00:13:14.888 –> 00:13:22.488
CMAT: And when I knew how deep it was going to be, I knew how serious it was going to be and I knew how laser focused, nuanced, heady it was going to be.

00:13:22.488 –> 00:13:32.648
CMAT: I was just like, I just got to make it with Oli and it’s just got to be mostly me and him in the room because I think making a record, much like anything else, too many cooks.

00:13:32.648 –> 00:13:34.588
CMAT: I don’t want to be dealing with them cooks.

00:13:34.588 –> 00:13:39.108
CMAT: I’m a bit of a dictator like, you know, you got to be, you got to be.

00:13:39.108 –> 00:13:41.988
John Kennedy: So there’s clearly a lot to talk about, a lot to dig into.

00:13:41.988 –> 00:13:47.408
John Kennedy: We’re going to do that by looking at three, kind of technically four tracks on the album.

00:13:47.468 –> 00:13:56.148
John Kennedy: The first of those is Billy Byrne from Ballybrack, the leader of the Pigeon Convoy, which segues into Euro-Country, the title track of the album.

00:13:56.148 –> 00:14:01.428
John Kennedy: So we get, we’re going to get a little taste of that, the master of it now, courtesy of Oli.

00:14:01.428 –> 00:14:04.928
John Kennedy: So if you play that and then we’ll start working out just how it all began.

00:14:24.413 –> 00:14:26.073
Oli: How are you, Tony?

00:14:26.073 –> 00:14:28.213
John Kennedy: How are you?

00:14:28.213 –> 00:14:31.333
John Kennedy: It’s grand here, Tony, lovely, nice, clear sky.

00:14:34.313 –> 00:14:36.233
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:14:36.233 –> 00:14:38.353
Oli: Yeah, yeah.

00:14:38.353 –> 00:14:40.973
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s light, it’s light westerly here.

00:14:41.993 –> 00:14:43.573
John Kennedy: What time are you now?

00:14:44.733 –> 00:14:46.213
John Kennedy: Yeah, right.

00:14:46.373 –> 00:14:48.033
John Kennedy: Okay, I’ll have a good night.

00:14:48.033 –> 00:14:48.293
John Kennedy: See ya.

00:15:48.483 –> 00:15:53.323
John Kennedy: So just a little taste of Euro-Country, preceded by Billy Byrne, by Billy Byrne from Ballybrack.

00:15:53.323 –> 00:15:54.423
CMAT: Billy Byrne from Ballybrack.

00:15:54.423 –> 00:15:55.663
John Kennedy: It’s not easy.

00:15:55.663 –> 00:15:56.443
John Kennedy: It is a tongue twister.

00:15:56.443 –> 00:15:57.543
CMAT: It’s not easy, no.

00:15:57.543 –> 00:15:59.823
John Kennedy: So that kind of sets up the whole album.

00:15:59.823 –> 00:16:04.683
John Kennedy: That’s a little scene setter on the shore with seagulls, somebody on the phone.

00:16:04.683 –> 00:16:05.903
John Kennedy: Is that Billy Byrne on the phone?

00:16:05.903 –> 00:16:06.883
CMAT: That is Billy Byrne.

00:16:06.883 –> 00:16:09.043
John Kennedy: Right, is it a real life conversation?

00:16:09.043 –> 00:16:10.303
CMAT: It’s a real guy.

00:16:10.303 –> 00:16:17.003
CMAT: His name is Billy Byrne from Ballybrack, and he was the leader of the Pigeon Convoy for the Pigeon Fanciers Club in Smithfield in the 1980s.

00:16:20.303 –> 00:16:29.023
CMAT: I feel like we should talk about the songwriting of the main song before we get into that, because I think I need to kind of like set it up a little bit and then we can talk about how we did it.

00:16:29.023 –> 00:16:32.003
CMAT: This song has been knocking around.

00:16:32.003 –> 00:16:36.943
CMAT: This melody and parts of these lyrics have been knocking around since, I reckon, 2018.

00:16:36.943 –> 00:16:43.563
CMAT: It’s one of those ones that went in the vault of my brain, because the first version of this, one of the worst things you’ve ever heard in your life.

00:16:43.883 –> 00:17:00.963
CMAT: As all of my best songs generally start, because I think you got to swing big and swinging big usually means missing big initially or at some point and you just have to use your own taste level and not force it and let it kind of gestate.

00:17:02.163 –> 00:17:10.643
CMAT: I believe the original lyrics for this song were, get out of my, out of my, out of my country and into my car.

00:17:12.103 –> 00:17:13.963
CMAT: Don’t even know what I was talking about.

00:17:13.963 –> 00:17:19.143
CMAT: I couldn’t tell you if my life depended on it, what I was going for there.

00:17:19.143 –> 00:17:23.443
CMAT: But the Irish language bit has existed for a really long time.

00:17:23.443 –> 00:17:29.403
CMAT: I think like 2016, 2017 and that melody always came with almost entirely that set of lyrics.

00:17:29.403 –> 00:17:34.583
CMAT: Not exactly, I had to kind of rejig them a little bit for this song.

00:17:34.583 –> 00:17:40.623
CMAT: I think what happened was I named the album in the album name happened in my head.

00:17:40.623 –> 00:17:42.703
CMAT: And that actually has happened every single time.

00:17:42.703 –> 00:17:54.023
CMAT: I get the name of the record and I figure out how to conjugate that with the songs that I have in my back pocket and what it all means, what it can mean.

00:17:54.023 –> 00:18:05.403
CMAT: And I have like, I don’t know what exactly is wrong with my brain, but I tend to, if I have a word or a phrase, it will like kind of bounce around my head, like the DVD loading screen.

00:18:05.883 –> 00:18:10.823
CMAT: So like Euro-Country, the phrase just kept on, Euro-Country, Euro-Country, Euro-Country, in my brain for ages and ages.

00:18:10.823 –> 00:18:13.363
CMAT: And I had a lot of the other songs written.

00:18:13.363 –> 00:18:15.063
CMAT: I had Iceberg, definitely.

00:18:15.063 –> 00:18:19.123
CMAT: I had like, Coronation Street, definitely.

00:18:19.123 –> 00:18:22.463
CMAT: I had Rooting Planning, definitely.

00:18:22.463 –> 00:18:28.323
CMAT: I had a lot of songs and I was like, it would be really cool to have a title track because I’ve never had a title track before.

00:18:28.323 –> 00:18:32.143
CMAT: Like all of my album names and song titles are all over the gaff.

00:18:32.143 –> 00:18:42.403
CMAT: And I was like, I’d love to have a song called Euro-Country that just like sums up the record, because I’ve done that on every record so far as well, where the opening track basically tells you what the album is going to be about.

00:18:42.403 –> 00:18:43.923
CMAT: I’ve done that every single time.

00:18:43.923 –> 00:18:45.083
CMAT: And I really like doing that.

00:18:45.083 –> 00:18:47.003
CMAT: I’m just copying my own formula basically.

00:18:47.003 –> 00:18:57.023
CMAT: And at one point when I was getting stuff together before coming over to New York to see you, I was probably on tour and I was probably in a bathroom, because that is usually how I write my songs.

00:18:57.023 –> 00:18:59.163
CMAT: I haven’t had my own studio ever until this month.

00:18:59.663 –> 00:19:01.363
CMAT: I was just like, get out of my country.

00:19:01.363 –> 00:19:03.683
CMAT: It’s like, how do I make it work?

00:19:03.683 –> 00:19:08.003
CMAT: And I remember thinking like Euro, Euro, Euro-Country.

00:19:09.443 –> 00:19:17.123
CMAT: And my initial reaction was like, I kind of cringed myself out, because I was like, I hate singing oars in my accent.

00:19:17.123 –> 00:19:23.143
CMAT: It’s like, I will always try to avoid them, especially in choruses, because it makes my accent come out so much.

00:19:23.143 –> 00:19:25.003
CMAT: And that makes it sound like I’m a self-hating Irish person.

00:19:25.003 –> 00:19:30.043
CMAT: I’m not, but I just like, I hate how legible I am or something and it kind of cringes out my ear.

00:19:30.043 –> 00:19:32.223
CMAT: I always think I want to sound American.

00:19:32.223 –> 00:19:36.343
CMAT: And then I was like, oh, that’s the gen, that’s the whole song.

00:19:36.343 –> 00:19:38.663
CMAT: Like that is actually the point of the whole song.

00:19:38.663 –> 00:19:40.923
CMAT: So I think I had the Irish language bit.

00:19:40.923 –> 00:20:04.003
CMAT: I came up with the chorus and realizing that I cringed myself out from how Irish I sounded in the chorus, then just informed all of the English lyrics and the rest of the song about, like, so trying to be what he wasn’t born, all the pop star USA and basically comparing myself to Ireland and the bad boyfriend and always striving for more when you should just be happy what you’ve been dealt.

00:20:04.003 –> 00:20:07.883
CMAT: And so that’s like a big part of the record and it’s like a really big song.

00:20:07.883 –> 00:20:12.563
CMAT: And I really wanted to open up the record because I thought it like summed it up.

00:20:12.623 –> 00:20:33.143
CMAT: Billy Byrne, I had a really clear idea in my head and it drove you mad a little bit where I was like the opening, I want to hear those opening swells of like the, of like the string, like the fake strings or the, what is it in the end?

00:20:33.143 –> 00:20:33.883
Oli: The intro drone?

00:20:33.923 –> 00:20:38.983
Oli: Yeah, it’s a blend of the Omnichord that you were, that you first played it to me on.

00:20:38.983 –> 00:20:48.703
Oli: And then we, we sort of laid up some Casios and Mellotrons, just all like lots of those kind of like, like you say, sort of fake stringy or organy kind of things.

00:20:48.703 –> 00:20:56.523
Oli: All of them a little bit glitchy and some of them sort of had to be time stretched because we could change in the tempo so much and that sort of became part of the character.

00:20:56.523 –> 00:21:00.323
Oli: So they sound weird sort of by design.

00:21:00.323 –> 00:21:00.763
CMAT: Yeah.

00:21:00.763 –> 00:21:04.783
CMAT: I always knew it was going to be a fake string, like sustained drone.

00:21:04.783 –> 00:21:12.723
CMAT: That is our favourite fucking thing to do in the planet, to be fair, like long, sustained, synthy, fake string drone underneath something.

00:21:12.723 –> 00:21:14.743
CMAT: We’re like, yeah, class.

00:21:14.743 –> 00:21:22.983
CMAT: I always knew it was going to be that and that the album is going to start with a, and have no percussion before.

00:21:22.983 –> 00:21:37.443
CMAT: Like I wanted there to be no percussion or tempo underneath the Irish language music or underneath the Irish language section, because in traditional Shannos music, there’s, it’s always free time and no tempo, no percussion underneath the singing.

00:21:37.443 –> 00:21:38.883
CMAT: So I was like, I want that.

00:21:38.883 –> 00:21:55.183
CMAT: And then we land into the English language section and it’s like the American British Indie, like all of the things that Ireland kind of tells itself that it’s not trying to be, but always wants to be British Indie, American Indie, you know, all that kind of like, I wanted it to land with the drum, the English language bit.

00:21:55.183 –> 00:22:18.063
CMAT: Anyway, my idea for the intro was that it would be VTs of people from Dublin talking about like the opening of a shopping centre, because shopping centres is like a very big theme on the record and it’s like the album covers me climbing out of Blanchettstown shopping centre fountain, which doesn’t exist anymore.

00:22:18.063 –> 00:22:25.363
CMAT: And I was thinking a lot about shopping centres and about community and lack thereof and you know, all of that junk.

00:22:25.363 –> 00:22:37.103
CMAT: And I wanted to be VTs of people talking about the opening of a shopping centre or like the closing down of shops and shopping centres, either in like the 90s or like 2009, 2008, that period.

00:22:37.103 –> 00:22:42.203
CMAT: And I went looking, I went digging, digging, digging.

00:22:42.203 –> 00:22:45.063
CMAT: And you were witness to a lot of the digging, but not even all of the digging.

00:22:45.063 –> 00:22:48.603
CMAT: And it was terrible, no matter what we did.

00:22:48.603 –> 00:22:52.683
CMAT: So like you probably have like the early test versions of it somewhere.

00:22:52.743 –> 00:22:55.743
CMAT: You probably don’t have it here, but I wonder, I wonder.

00:22:55.743 –> 00:22:57.023
John Kennedy: Carry on, I’ll have a look.

00:22:57.023 –> 00:23:09.423
CMAT: Have a little goo, have a little goo, because we did lots of test versions of like VTs of people at shopping centres, which I would have pulled off of the RTE archives, shout out RTE, of like news pieces to do with Jervis Shopping Centre.

00:23:09.423 –> 00:23:11.823
CMAT: I like Shopping Centre, Blancheton Shopping Centre, anything.

00:23:11.823 –> 00:23:16.083
CMAT: And there’s lots of ones of like, yeah, I think it’s class.

00:23:16.083 –> 00:23:18.323
CMAT: Like all the English shops coming over here is brilliant.

00:23:18.323 –> 00:23:22.643
CMAT: They’re way better than the Irish shops, which in my head, I was like, that’s on the nail.

00:23:22.643 –> 00:23:25.843
CMAT: Like that’s exactly what I want to be singing about and talking about in the song.

00:23:25.843 –> 00:23:27.523
CMAT: So let’s put it in.

00:23:27.523 –> 00:23:29.203
CMAT: And it didn’t work.

00:23:29.203 –> 00:23:33.503
CMAT: It just never worked because it was too cynical and it felt too snotty.

00:23:33.503 –> 00:23:37.223
CMAT: And the tone of it just felt like not beautiful.

00:23:37.223 –> 00:23:41.783
CMAT: And I think ultimately what I’m always trying to do is something beautiful.

00:23:41.783 –> 00:23:49.323
CMAT: And it just no matter what version of that talking about, like on the nose, talking about like capitalism, it just it just wasn’t working.

00:23:49.443 –> 00:23:53.083
CMAT: And so then I was like, I had to kind of go back to the drawing board and be like, well, what does work?

00:23:53.083 –> 00:23:55.183
CMAT: Like, how do I open up the album?

00:23:55.183 –> 00:23:56.983
CMAT: And I still was like, it’s got to be a vocal sample.

00:23:56.983 –> 00:23:58.863
CMAT: And you were like, we got to abandon it.

00:23:58.863 –> 00:24:00.923
CMAT: At one point, you were like, I think you should leave it.

00:24:00.923 –> 00:24:01.543
CMAT: I think you should drop it.

00:24:01.543 –> 00:24:10.683
Oli: There was a point, wasn’t there, where the the things that we were finding by isolating them and putting them at the front of that, it sort of added far too much specific meaning to the words that were being said.

00:24:10.683 –> 00:24:13.343
Oli: And your whole point was that this is a general sentiment.

00:24:13.343 –> 00:24:13.703
CMAT: Yeah.

00:24:13.703 –> 00:24:17.303
Oli: And it was sort of attaching too much weight on like the exact words they were saying.

00:24:17.843 –> 00:24:23.123
Oli: And it’s gonna make people think there’s a specific meaning rather than a general mood.

00:24:23.123 –> 00:24:25.523
CMAT: And it made the song read as cynical.

00:24:26.083 –> 00:24:27.943
CMAT: Once following that, it made the song read as cynical.

00:24:27.943 –> 00:24:29.423
CMAT: And I was just like, I hate that.

00:24:29.423 –> 00:24:30.403
CMAT: I just fucking hated it.

00:24:30.403 –> 00:24:32.063
CMAT: Cause I just thought it was ugly.

00:24:32.063 –> 00:24:35.723
CMAT: And nothing can tell you what’s ugly and what’s beautiful other than instincts alone, right?

00:24:35.723 –> 00:24:38.803
CMAT: So I’m going through the RT archives every day.

00:24:38.803 –> 00:24:41.023
CMAT: I’m trawling, trawling, trawling, trawling, trawling.

00:24:41.023 –> 00:24:42.803
CMAT: And then we’re in the studio.

00:24:42.803 –> 00:24:43.703
CMAT: We’re in the studio.

00:24:43.703 –> 00:24:48.323
CMAT: I think you’re tapping away on a very primitive version of like Take a Sexy Picture.

00:24:48.323 –> 00:24:48.723
Oli: Could have been.

00:24:48.723 –> 00:24:50.243
CMAT: I think, I think, I think that’s what’s happening.

00:24:50.243 –> 00:24:54.583
Oli: We were working on something, I remember, because you were busying yourself with this while I did something else.

00:24:54.583 –> 00:24:54.863
CMAT: Yeah.

00:24:54.863 –> 00:24:57.823
CMAT: I think you were like laying down a foundation for Take a Sexy Picture.

00:24:57.823 –> 00:25:13.583
CMAT: And I was sitting behind you watching the RT archives being like, and in the, like in the little sidebar of recommendations, there was something called like the Fidgin Fancy, the Pigeon Fancy, the Pigeon Fancy’s Club of like Smithfield 1981.

00:25:13.583 –> 00:25:21.463
CMAT: And I had grandparents on both sides that were pigeon, like my great granddad on one side was a pigeon fancier, my granddad on the other side is pigeon fancier.

00:25:21.463 –> 00:25:24.123
CMAT: So I was like, ah yeah, let me have a watch of that.

00:25:24.123 –> 00:25:25.503
CMAT: Seems so interesting.

00:25:25.503 –> 00:25:34.843
CMAT: The first half of the clip is like all the lads in Smithfield’s kind of clamping the tag on the pigeons at the same time and drinking pints and being in an office and it’s all really rowdy.

00:25:34.843 –> 00:25:37.543
CMAT: And I was like, hee hee ha ha, this is so funny.

00:25:37.543 –> 00:25:44.643
CMAT: And then it cuts to Yall, County Cork, the beach in Yall and County Cork.

00:25:44.643 –> 00:25:47.903
CMAT: And it’s the seagulls.

00:25:47.903 –> 00:26:04.323
CMAT: And it’s like, it cuts from like this really like, like heady, like kind of titchy scene in like Dublin, which is all like, you know, grey and overhead lighting and like everyone’s smoking fags and like drinking points to just the ocean and the sea and the sky.

00:26:04.323 –> 00:26:06.623
CMAT: And you hear that.

00:26:06.623 –> 00:26:11.483
CMAT: And then the camera slowly pans over to an old Irish telephone box.

00:26:11.483 –> 00:26:18.823
CMAT: And it’s Billy Byrne from Ballybrack who is, he has driven all those pigeons to the other side of the country to let them out to race back to Dublin.

00:26:18.823 –> 00:26:20.223
CMAT: That’s his job.

00:26:20.223 –> 00:26:22.023
CMAT: And the camera cuts to him.

00:26:22.103 –> 00:26:23.243
CMAT: He’s like, how are you, Tony?

00:26:23.243 –> 00:26:24.083
CMAT: Yeah.

00:26:24.083 –> 00:26:25.103
CMAT: Nice here.

00:26:25.103 –> 00:26:25.823
CMAT: Slight westerly.

00:26:25.823 –> 00:26:26.043
CMAT: Yeah.

00:26:26.043 –> 00:26:26.683
CMAT: Blue skies.

00:26:26.683 –> 00:26:29.343
CMAT: Like he’s just describing the weather.

00:26:29.343 –> 00:26:33.783
CMAT: And I actually almost start crying because I was like, I love Ireland.

00:26:33.783 –> 00:26:35.023
CMAT: I was like, I love Ireland.

00:26:35.023 –> 00:26:36.443
CMAT: It’s so weird.

00:26:36.443 –> 00:26:37.803
CMAT: It’s such a weird place.

00:26:37.803 –> 00:26:40.083
CMAT: Like, why, why is he doing that?

00:26:40.083 –> 00:26:42.503
CMAT: Like, this is so weird and it’s so beautiful.

00:26:42.523 –> 00:26:44.183
CMAT: It’s so confusing.

00:26:44.183 –> 00:26:57.143
CMAT: And in my head, I was like, if I close my eyes, if I actually close my eyes and listen to what he’s saying, it kind of sounds like it could be a phone call from heaven to earth.

00:26:57.143 –> 00:26:57.583
CMAT: Right.

00:26:57.583 –> 00:26:59.143
CMAT: This is me in my fucking head.

00:26:59.143 –> 00:27:02.003
CMAT: I was like, it kind of sounds like it could be a phone call from heaven to earth.

00:27:02.003 –> 00:27:06.683
CMAT: And that makes sense for me and my opinion of Ireland, which is I think it’s the most beautiful, amazing place in the world.

00:27:06.683 –> 00:27:09.223
CMAT: Obviously, I think it’s class.

00:27:09.223 –> 00:27:11.643
CMAT: And I was like, that is the note to start the record on.

00:27:11.643 –> 00:27:19.623
CMAT: Like, this is the tone we start the record with so that everything that comes afterwards can be informed by the opinion of someone who loves this place.

00:27:19.623 –> 00:27:33.743
CMAT: Because anything negative I imply about Ireland or about where I grew up or about how I grew up comes under the umbrella of I care so much about this place and I love this place with every single fiber of my being.

00:27:33.743 –> 00:27:37.563
CMAT: And I was like, this is how we do it and this is how we set the song up.

00:27:37.563 –> 00:27:41.943
CMAT: So he had to be the intro and I, he had to be the intro.

00:27:41.943 –> 00:27:44.223
CMAT: And so we edited it, made it work.

00:27:44.223 –> 00:27:50.403
CMAT: The minute we did like the first draft of it, we were just like, oh yeah, like nailed it, nailed it, nailed it.

00:27:50.403 –> 00:27:53.883
CMAT: Then we had to get the rights for it.

00:27:53.883 –> 00:27:59.063
CMAT: So my manager, Barry O’Donoghue, shout out Barry for running my life.

00:27:59.063 –> 00:28:01.823
CMAT: I was going to say ruining my life, running my life.

00:28:03.143 –> 00:28:11.583
CMAT: He, I believe just went to the Pigeon Fanciers Club in Dublin and was like, has anyone heard of a man called Billy Byrne from Ballybrack?

00:28:11.583 –> 00:28:21.163
CMAT: Cause according to the RTE archives, that’s who this person is, was like showing the video to people, was like sending pictures around, was like in Facebook groups, all this like went looking for him.

00:28:21.163 –> 00:28:23.423
CMAT: And then he like turned up.

00:28:23.423 –> 00:28:25.703
CMAT: And what’s mad is this was filmed in like 1981.

00:28:25.703 –> 00:28:29.083
CMAT: Billy Byrne is still alive and he’s the only one in the documentary that’s still alive.

00:28:29.083 –> 00:28:31.183
CMAT: Everyone else died, everyone else has passed away.

00:28:31.183 –> 00:28:37.223
CMAT: Like he wasn’t super young during the filming and it was totally within the realm of possibility because he’s an older man.

00:28:38.023 –> 00:29:08.663
CMAT: He’s alive and I went to his house and I had biscuits and tea with him and he told me for like three hours the most amazing stories I’ve ever heard in my fucking life about being the leader of the pigeon convoy and he also made me hold a pigeon and I have, let me see if I can get out, I have like, there’s like a video and picture of us together and I’m like holding a pigeon and like shooing a pigeon away and like letting a pigeon fly cause he’s still at the pigeons.

00:29:08.663 –> 00:29:15.823
CMAT: He’s not racing them anymore but he has loads of like morning doves so he like uses them for like, leases them out for funerals and stuff.

00:29:15.823 –> 00:29:17.263
CMAT: How do I search this?

00:29:17.263 –> 00:29:17.883
CMAT: Where is he?

00:29:17.883 –> 00:29:19.603
CMAT: Yeah, there he is.

00:29:19.603 –> 00:29:20.483
John Kennedy: Oh, wow.

00:29:20.483 –> 00:29:21.583
CMAT: Isn’t he amazing?

00:29:21.583 –> 00:29:22.843
John Kennedy: He’s looking good.

00:29:23.323 –> 00:29:24.723
John Kennedy: And it’s a nice dove.

00:29:24.723 –> 00:29:29.483
CMAT: And prior to meeting him, because you never know what people are going to be like, right?

00:29:29.483 –> 00:29:30.643
CMAT: You never know what people are going to be like.

00:29:30.643 –> 00:29:32.783
CMAT: I was happy to use him as a vocal sample.

00:29:32.783 –> 00:29:36.383
CMAT: There’s a part of me that was like, oh, what if he’s terrible?

00:29:36.383 –> 00:29:38.823
CMAT: What if he’s a terrible, terrible human being?

00:29:38.823 –> 00:29:41.603
CMAT: I guess we just like silently have him there in the record.

00:29:41.603 –> 00:29:49.623
CMAT: Within five minutes of meeting him, I was like, I’m naming the opening track on the album after him, because it’s all about him.

00:29:49.623 –> 00:29:56.343
CMAT: He was just such an amazing story of a person and such an amazing allegory for the whole record.

00:29:56.403 –> 00:29:57.723
CMAT: And it’s kind of like, you know what I mean?

00:29:57.723 –> 00:30:05.883
CMAT: Like art history, French people will depict France as like this, like beautiful, sexy woman that needs to be protected at all costs.

00:30:05.883 –> 00:30:24.223
CMAT: I kind of feel like Billy Byrne is Ireland, like weird man that chose to do weird things with his life and loves his family so much and loves Ballybrack and loves pigeons and loves being from Dublin and loves the chats, like talked at me for like literally three hours about all the things he did.

00:30:24.883 –> 00:30:27.783
CMAT: And I love him deeply and I love this song deeply.

00:30:27.783 –> 00:30:41.443
John Kennedy: And so he seems an important symbolic figure that helps you start this record but goes into Euro-Country, which is the song that you had evolving for about six or seven years or so.

00:30:41.443 –> 00:30:46.503
John Kennedy: And so if we dig into the music, what were you sharing with Oli here?

00:30:46.503 –> 00:30:49.503
John Kennedy: Are you recording yourself with a guitar, Ciara?

00:30:49.503 –> 00:30:52.043
John Kennedy: Or are you just humming something into the phone?

00:30:52.503 –> 00:30:57.383
CMAT: I can show you exactly how I showed this song to Oli for the first time before we have a recording of it.

00:30:57.383 –> 00:30:58.083
John Kennedy: Excellent.

00:30:58.083 –> 00:30:59.383
CMAT: Why was I coming to see you?

00:30:59.383 –> 00:31:02.223
CMAT: I don’t even think I had asked you to do the record at this point.

00:31:02.223 –> 00:31:03.883
CMAT: I think I was just hanging out.

00:31:03.883 –> 00:31:08.403
Oli: No, you first played me this in the lakes because you had a little bit of time off and I was there.

00:31:08.403 –> 00:31:09.503
CMAT: Yeah.

00:31:09.503 –> 00:31:11.003
Oli: Was it around the time of the festival?

00:31:11.343 –> 00:31:12.583
CMAT: Yeah, it was around the time of the festival.

00:31:12.583 –> 00:31:13.463
Oli: You were playing festival up there?

00:31:13.463 –> 00:31:14.043
CMAT: I was playing.

00:31:14.203 –> 00:31:16.043
Oli: So we just started talking about doing this.

00:31:16.043 –> 00:31:20.643
Oli: And so the idea was you come and play me what songs you had and talk about whether we thought there was an album there.

00:31:20.923 –> 00:31:21.443
CMAT: Yeah.

00:31:21.443 –> 00:31:24.183
Oli: And this was one of the first things you played me.

00:31:24.183 –> 00:31:29.343
CMAT: And I played this live and then I think I record it on my phone, you record it on your phone.

00:31:29.343 –> 00:31:32.023
CMAT: And I think I played this one on the…

00:31:32.023 –> 00:31:36.743
CMAT: So I would have most of my songs I write in my head, like from start to finish, top to bottom, like in my head.

00:31:36.743 –> 00:31:39.923
CMAT: And then I do guitar afterwards.

00:31:39.923 –> 00:31:41.083
CMAT: I don’t really care about the guitar that much.

00:31:41.083 –> 00:31:43.823
CMAT: I don’t really care about melody and lyric and structure.

00:31:43.823 –> 00:31:45.923
CMAT: But this one was Omni because it just suited it a bit.

00:31:45.923 –> 00:31:46.743
CMAT: I think it’s in a different key.

00:31:51.403 –> 00:31:53.243
CMAT: Yeah, 31st of July, 2024.

00:31:57.363 –> 00:31:59.723
CMAT: Yeah, this checks it.

00:32:03.103 –> 00:32:04.883
John Kennedy: And what is that instrument that you’re playing?

00:32:04.883 –> 00:32:05.663
CMAT: Omni chord.

00:32:05.663 –> 00:32:06.903
John Kennedy: So that’s the omni chord.

00:32:06.903 –> 00:32:12.743
CMAT: Yeah, which is an instrument that Olly Deacon introduced me to when I was 90?

00:32:12.743 –> 00:32:13.823
Oli: Yeah, probably.

00:32:46.903 –> 00:32:49.423
CMAT: Yeah.

00:32:49.563 –> 00:32:50.483
CMAT: I already knew.

00:32:50.483 –> 00:32:51.123
CMAT: That’s so funny.

00:32:53.502 –> 00:32:56.722
John Kennedy: And will you go on and sing the whole song?

00:32:56.942 –> 00:32:59.282
CMAT: Yeah, I do sing the whole song.

00:32:59.282 –> 00:33:02.882
CMAT: And I’m like doing the things that end up in the final version as well.

00:33:02.882 –> 00:33:05.742
CMAT: I’m like singing the drum bits, and I’m like singing all the random bits.

00:33:05.742 –> 00:33:07.322
CMAT: But I have that whole song there.

00:33:07.322 –> 00:33:07.582
John Kennedy: Right.

00:33:07.582 –> 00:33:11.062
CMAT: And that was the first time I would have ever showed it to you, like that exact recording.

00:33:11.062 –> 00:33:12.942
CMAT: I just had like my phone in the thing.

00:33:12.942 –> 00:33:13.602
John Kennedy: Fantastic.

00:33:13.602 –> 00:33:27.462
John Kennedy: And you’re saying that you do that with all your songs, that you write them pretty much, it’s not like a lot of people might have a little section or a little idea that they’ll carry around with them and then they’ll add that to another little idea and then piece the two together and that leads to a third idea.

00:33:27.462 –> 00:33:31.402
John Kennedy: But you’re writing from start to finish in theory.

00:33:31.402 –> 00:33:32.342
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:33:32.342 –> 00:33:40.442
CMAT: In theory, in my head, sometimes like on paper, like, you know, I’ll keep a note of the structure through the Notes app in my phone.

00:33:40.442 –> 00:33:41.542
CMAT: My phone is my instrument.

00:33:41.542 –> 00:33:47.282
CMAT: Like the more I think about it, I’m like, thank God for iPhones, shut out iPhones.

00:33:47.282 –> 00:33:50.442
CMAT: Because it’s voice notes and it’s writing.

00:33:50.442 –> 00:33:52.462
CMAT: Because I love poetry and all that.

00:33:52.462 –> 00:33:57.342
CMAT: But like, I think you have to have a mix of it reads well and it sings well.

00:33:57.342 –> 00:34:00.842
CMAT: And for me, the own and everyone writes differently.

00:34:00.842 –> 00:34:02.682
CMAT: And I love every type of music.

00:34:02.682 –> 00:34:10.402
CMAT: And I think everything I love band music that’s informed by like multiple people playing in a room and stuff and stuff coming on top of the head.

00:34:11.162 –> 00:34:18.142
CMAT: But for me, I always have a very specific point that I’m making in a song, because that’s the reason that I do it.

00:34:18.142 –> 00:34:24.262
CMAT: So to have that supplemented and supported properly, I have to be writing off the top of my head.

00:34:24.262 –> 00:34:30.362
CMAT: And it has to be lyric and melody and structure above all else before anything else comes in.

00:34:30.362 –> 00:34:37.522
CMAT: And generally I can hear like 20 to 30 percent of what the final production is supposed to sound like at the end of that in my head.

00:34:38.222 –> 00:34:46.322
CMAT: And I can like kind of walk into a room in my brain and I pull that song out and like, yeah, this one’s like and kind of so on so forth like that.

00:34:46.322 –> 00:34:46.562
CMAT: Yeah.

00:34:46.562 –> 00:34:51.222
CMAT: But that’s where Madman Oli Deakin comes in because he unfortunately understands me.

00:34:51.222 –> 00:34:51.462
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:34:52.022 –> 00:35:05.442
John Kennedy: So when you go to Brooklyn, New York to stay with Oli, then he’s got to try and work out a way of translating what you’ve just played us and kind of turning that into other instrumentation and fleshing it out.

00:35:05.662 –> 00:35:05.882
CMAT: Yeah.

00:35:05.882 –> 00:35:08.502
John Kennedy: So that we can properly realize your song.

00:35:08.502 –> 00:35:20.222
CMAT: And Oli in my time has the best track record for accurately getting down the produced version that exists in my head into like a physical tangible thing.

00:35:20.222 –> 00:35:25.062
Oli: So that was sort of the kind of constant reference thing, wasn’t it?

00:35:25.122 –> 00:35:32.942
Oli: Well, it’s like whatever it is in your head, we need to try and somehow get that out into the room and figure out how best to create it and then capture it.

00:35:32.942 –> 00:35:44.742
Oli: And if it doesn’t feel like what you had in your head way back when it’s just you and the Omnichord or you and the guitar or whatever it was for the song, that always seemed like, you know, we’re probably going off track if we haven’t got to that place.

00:35:44.742 –> 00:35:45.222
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:35:45.222 –> 00:35:51.242
John Kennedy: And so maybe you could quickly walk us through the song as each part arrives.

00:35:51.242 –> 00:35:51.442
Oli: Yeah.

00:35:51.442 –> 00:35:56.422
Oli: I mean, well, like you were saying, you basically had all the sort of arc of the thing in your mind.

00:35:56.422 –> 00:36:08.042
Oli: And like you hear in the voice note, like you already had this, but you were very particular about the idea of that kind of drum beat and that they would have this kind of shape to it in certain sections where it would go up and down.

00:36:08.042 –> 00:36:14.042
Oli: I think it’s a constant in your songwriting anyway, that you basically write the arc of those things into it anyway.

00:36:14.042 –> 00:36:16.762
Oli: But there’s always a number of ways that that could be done.

00:36:16.762 –> 00:36:19.322
Oli: So it’s like finding those ones that work.

00:36:19.662 –> 00:36:26.982
Oli: I think for this, it was definitely something else that you were attached to early on was the drone being a constant.

00:36:26.982 –> 00:36:28.842
Oli: So I think we started with the drone, didn’t we?

00:36:28.842 –> 00:36:37.742
Oli: So not just that the Omnichord was there to be the chord thing, but there’s actually something, I think it probably is that, it’ll be blue.

00:36:37.742 –> 00:36:38.162
Oli: Good Lord.

00:36:38.162 –> 00:36:39.362
CMAT: What shade of blue, man?

00:36:39.362 –> 00:36:40.042
Oli: What shade of blue?

00:36:40.722 –> 00:36:42.742
Oli: No, you know what we changed at the last minute?

00:36:42.742 –> 00:36:44.602
Oli: We went with the Mellotron drone.

00:36:44.602 –> 00:36:45.162
CMAT: Yeah.

00:36:45.162 –> 00:36:46.862
Oli: There’s a Mellotron drone almost all the way through.

00:36:47.082 –> 00:36:52.122
Oli: And so that was the bedrock for everything to be anchored to.

00:36:52.122 –> 00:36:57.562
CMAT: I would even argue that the Mellotron might be the anchor of the entire fucking record, question mark.

00:36:57.562 –> 00:36:58.502
Oli: Question mark, yeah.

00:36:58.502 –> 00:37:00.782
Oli: But between Mellotron and Omnichord, I’d say, probably.

00:37:00.782 –> 00:37:02.222
Oli: Yeah.

00:37:02.222 –> 00:37:05.262
Oli: But as with all these things, we ended up making it out of multiple things.

00:37:05.262 –> 00:37:13.622
Oli: So what is a part of Omnichord at the start becomes Mellotron, sorry, Mellotron, then Omnichord, then Mellotron and Casio, and then Casio is something else.

00:37:13.962 –> 00:37:14.762
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:37:14.762 –> 00:37:17.202
Oli: Different combinations evolving.

00:37:17.202 –> 00:37:18.182
Oli: Should we play some bits?

00:37:18.182 –> 00:37:19.462
John Kennedy: Yeah, please do.

00:37:19.462 –> 00:37:20.242
Oli: What should we start with?

00:37:20.762 –> 00:37:24.222
Oli: At the top we have this little simple thing.

00:37:24.222 –> 00:37:26.962
Oli: This is the original Mellotron.

00:37:26.962 –> 00:37:28.202
Oli: Here you go.

00:37:29.862 –> 00:37:32.742
Oli: So that’s the one you hear at the top of the track.

00:37:34.222 –> 00:37:37.582
Oli: Then this Omni here comes in over the top, I think.

00:37:40.822 –> 00:37:44.922
Oli: You don’t really hear it so much as feel it, it kind of just adds a different sort of thing.

00:37:53.222 –> 00:37:55.382
Oli: Here comes the Casio joining in as well.

00:37:55.382 –> 00:37:56.442
John Kennedy: You’re a fave.

00:37:56.442 –> 00:37:56.982
Oli: My favorite.

00:37:56.982 –> 00:37:57.602
Oli: You’re a fave.

00:37:57.602 –> 00:37:58.862
Oli: Love my life.

00:38:01.362 –> 00:38:03.082
Oli: So that brings that little bassy kind of thing.

00:38:03.082 –> 00:38:04.942
Oli: They’re all doing very similar things.

00:38:04.942 –> 00:38:06.762
Oli: So they sort of just become one voice really.

00:38:09.222 –> 00:38:12.822
Oli: And by the end, you can see there’s a bunch more of the Mellotron in it as well.

00:38:22.462 –> 00:38:23.922
CMAT: What did you put the glitch in that?

00:38:23.922 –> 00:38:24.742
CMAT: What’s glitching?

00:38:24.742 –> 00:38:26.342
Oli: What’s going on?

00:38:26.342 –> 00:38:27.862
Oli: I can’t remember which thing is.

00:38:27.862 –> 00:38:30.322
Oli: I think it’s the Mellotron because I think we…

00:38:30.322 –> 00:38:31.402
CMAT: Layered a clean one with a glitched one.

00:38:31.422 –> 00:38:33.182
Oli: I scratched it and that made a glitch.

00:38:33.182 –> 00:38:35.662
Oli: And when we got rid of it, did it properly, you’re like, I missed the glitch.

00:38:35.662 –> 00:38:37.022
Oli: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:37.022 –> 00:38:38.402
CMAT: Chess out.

00:38:38.402 –> 00:38:41.642
CMAT: Classic.

00:38:41.642 –> 00:38:43.542
CMAT: Do you know what I would love to hear?

00:38:43.542 –> 00:38:45.842
CMAT: I would love to hear the drums isolated.

00:38:45.842 –> 00:38:46.262
Oli: Yeah.

00:38:46.262 –> 00:38:50.062
CMAT: Because the sound of them is fucking the tits.

00:38:50.062 –> 00:38:50.842
Oli: Well, this is where we went from…

00:38:50.842 –> 00:38:53.642
CMAT: Sure, this is the better language I can use, sorry.

00:38:53.642 –> 00:38:55.082
CMAT: The drums are the fucking tits.

00:38:55.082 –> 00:39:06.602
John Kennedy: Because in your whole idea of the song, Ciara, the drums are really articulating a point, both sonically and thematically, to tie in with the lyrics and what you’re saying, which is quite an interesting thing.

00:39:06.602 –> 00:39:12.562
CMAT: To kind of move from the Shano style into the like indie pop beat, like stadium style.

00:39:12.562 –> 00:39:14.362
CMAT: Like I’m not doing that for the sake of it.

00:39:14.362 –> 00:39:36.762
CMAT: I’m doing that because it’s just this classic push and pull with the Irish psyche of like loving, loving the village mentality and loving the culture and like loving stuff, always trying to break out of it and be like, I mean, it’s a bit of a government thing that like the Irish government is always licking the British government’s hole and licking the American government’s hole and do whatever it can to look up to it.

00:39:37.302 –> 00:39:39.662
CMAT: Like we have a fucking US military base in Shannon.

00:39:39.662 –> 00:39:40.462
CMAT: For what reason?

00:39:40.462 –> 00:39:44.122
CMAT: Like, you know, and that is also true of me as a person.

00:39:44.122 –> 00:39:47.862
CMAT: It’s like I come from a village in Dumboin and I was not happy being in a village.

00:39:47.862 –> 00:39:53.042
CMAT: I wanted to be a big fat pop star and I don’t necessarily think that that’s a good thing, true and true.

00:39:53.102 –> 00:40:00.342
CMAT: And yeah, and the drums, like in my head, I just knew that it had to be this like big, like stadium me.

00:40:02.062 –> 00:40:16.522
CMAT: And kind of harking back to the biggest era of Irish music as well, where like Cranberries, Sinead O’Connor, U2, all of that kind of music that had its genesis in the late 80s, early 90s.

00:40:16.522 –> 00:40:19.782
CMAT: They all have that really big drum sound as well.

00:40:20.462 –> 00:40:24.502
CMAT: And that is like the sound of people breaking out of home.

00:40:24.502 –> 00:40:27.722
CMAT: I just, the drums were so important to me and you fucking nailed them.

00:40:27.722 –> 00:40:28.482
CMAT: You fucking nailed them.

00:40:28.482 –> 00:40:29.602
CMAT: Like it’s so good.

00:40:29.602 –> 00:40:32.182
Oli: Well, I think we should also give credit to Morgan who played the drums.

00:40:32.182 –> 00:40:34.282
CMAT: Morgan Carrabelle.

00:40:34.282 –> 00:40:35.562
CMAT: She’s so good.

00:40:35.562 –> 00:40:36.942
CMAT: She’s so good at the drums.

00:40:36.942 –> 00:40:40.762
Oli: Really did a great job of like, obviously I had to understand your vision.

00:40:40.762 –> 00:40:42.642
Oli: And then also Morgan had to understand it.

00:40:42.642 –> 00:40:44.662
Oli: And then we had to all kind of work together on this.

00:40:44.662 –> 00:40:51.202
Oli: So this was really early on in the sessions, like the three of us trying to get this down before everything, I’ll play a little bit of it in isolation.

00:40:51.202 –> 00:40:51.822
CMAT: So that’s fine.

00:41:00.308 –> 00:41:02.708
CMAT: Bam, boom, so good.

00:41:04.368 –> 00:41:08.948
Oli: Worth mentioning as well, this is, with a tiny few edits here and there, this is actually one take.

00:41:08.948 –> 00:41:10.908
Oli: She did a bunch of takes, but we ended up running with one take.

00:41:10.908 –> 00:41:13.448
Oli: She played this beat constantly throughout the whole song.

00:41:13.448 –> 00:41:20.528
Oli: We could have just looped it, because it’s one groove the whole time, and bless her, she just smashed it all the way through and got all the dynamics.

00:41:20.528 –> 00:41:22.588
CMAT: Yeah, she’s a freak.

00:41:23.248 –> 00:41:25.548
John Kennedy: And is this in a studio?

00:41:25.548 –> 00:41:29.728
John Kennedy: When you’re in Brooklyn, is this a studio?

00:41:29.948 –> 00:41:33.188
John Kennedy: Like you’ve got a drum kit set up, you’re ready to record things like that.

00:41:33.188 –> 00:41:38.108
Oli: Yeah, so this was in Lightshow Studios that we went to, to do the bulk of the sessions.

00:41:38.308 –> 00:41:43.928
Oli: We did a lot of the pre-production in my studios, and a lot of bits and pieces from that would end up on the tracks.

00:41:43.928 –> 00:41:54.868
Oli: But the sort of, we wanted to have a specific space to do in particular drums for a certain sound, and also for vocals for sound, but also for kind of environment.

00:41:54.868 –> 00:42:00.848
Oli: I think we wanted to be in a really considered space, and light show, I’ve been doing a bit of work there through last year.

00:42:00.848 –> 00:42:04.228
Oli: It was a good space to kind of get away from everything.

00:42:04.228 –> 00:42:06.448
Oli: You’ve got a view across the city.

00:42:06.448 –> 00:42:15.528
Oli: So aside from all the fact that technically it’s a really good studio, it’s also just lots of daylight, a center of space, center of location.

00:42:15.528 –> 00:42:19.288
Oli: And when we were talking about doing this, I thought, well, actually, this is kind of the perfect place.

00:42:19.288 –> 00:42:23.388
Oli: If you’re going to come make a record in New York, you might as well feel like you’re in New York and be looking at New York.

00:42:23.448 –> 00:42:24.288
CMAT: Yeah.

00:42:24.288 –> 00:42:26.208
Oli: And watch the sun go down over New York.

00:42:26.208 –> 00:42:28.268
Oli: And we’re going to make a record about Ireland.

00:42:28.268 –> 00:42:31.788
Oli: It’s like, well, we better be really clear about where we are right now.

00:42:31.788 –> 00:42:32.948
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:42:32.948 –> 00:42:33.908
CMAT: It’s so beautiful.

00:42:33.908 –> 00:42:34.228
Oli: Yeah.

00:42:34.228 –> 00:42:36.068
CMAT: Such a beautiful fucking studio.

00:42:36.068 –> 00:42:36.488
Oli: Yeah.

00:42:36.488 –> 00:42:39.088
CMAT: Can’t believe we got to make almost the entire record there.

00:42:39.088 –> 00:42:44.448
CMAT: We spent way more time and money there than we were probably supposed to.

00:42:44.448 –> 00:42:46.328
CMAT: But we just kept being like, we want to go back.

00:42:46.328 –> 00:42:46.548
CMAT: Yeah.

00:42:46.548 –> 00:42:47.908
Oli: It kind of became home for a while.

00:42:47.908 –> 00:42:49.128
CMAT: Yeah, it really did.

00:42:49.128 –> 00:42:50.068
CMAT: It really did.

00:42:50.068 –> 00:42:51.488
CMAT: Almost burnt the place down a couple of times.

00:42:51.488 –> 00:42:58.308
John Kennedy: Can we hear a bit more of those drums and then bring in some other instrumentation and maybe chart where the song went after that?

00:42:58.308 –> 00:42:59.648
Oli: Should I just start dropping things in?

00:42:59.648 –> 00:43:00.648
John Kennedy: Yeah, that would be brilliant.

00:43:00.648 –> 00:43:01.968
Oli: There you go.

00:43:01.968 –> 00:43:06.128
Oli: So there’s a couple of kick mics going on, just all the usual close mic things.

00:43:07.148 –> 00:43:08.728
Oli: So it’s actually a very dry, punchy sound.

00:43:08.728 –> 00:43:12.848
Oli: I’ll introduce a little bit of reverb at the top there, which is doing some of the work.

00:43:12.848 –> 00:43:21.128
Oli: But knowing Ciara wanted that big, explosive sound, something that we had just as a constant session was just obviously some overheads.

00:43:21.848 –> 00:43:26.728
Oli: Throw some of that in just now, and in particular some room mics.

00:43:26.728 –> 00:43:36.768
Oli: One thing that they had at Lightshow that we loved was this Aea ribbon mic, like a stereo ribbon mic, and we just left it in the room the whole time.

00:43:36.768 –> 00:43:44.968
Oli: Kind of just always on, whatever we were recording, be it vocals or keyboards across the room, because it just gets this very particular sense of the space.

00:43:44.968 –> 00:43:47.608
Oli: It’s not a big studio, but it’s very reflective in its own way.

00:43:47.608 –> 00:43:49.688
Oli: Lots of wood and glass and things in it.

00:43:50.448 –> 00:44:00.448
Oli: You leave a mic like that just on, and it just seems to capture all of the air that’s moving around it, and lends itself very well to kind of being squashed with some compression and things.

00:44:00.448 –> 00:44:03.968
Oli: And that’s kind of the bulk of the character that you hear is that microphone.

00:44:03.968 –> 00:44:05.808
John Kennedy: Amazing.

00:44:05.988 –> 00:44:08.608
Oli: I can give you that on its own if you’d like.

00:44:11.448 –> 00:44:12.688
John Kennedy: There he is.

00:44:13.968 –> 00:44:14.668
Oli: Totally blown out.

00:44:20.230 –> 00:44:25.690
Oli: We spent a while also with the drums, they’re tuning those toms, so that they would kind of almost like sort of pass the baton.

00:44:25.690 –> 00:44:30.490
Oli: So like the top one kind of hits and then dips, and then the second one hits and dips.

00:44:30.490 –> 00:44:34.130
Oli: The idea is it sort of sound like it’s going around and around in a circle kind of thing.

00:44:38.070 –> 00:44:41.770
CMAT: It is crazy that this is a live tape and that we didn’t just…

00:44:41.770 –> 00:44:43.510
Oli: Yeah.

00:44:43.510 –> 00:44:44.930
Oli: Oh, we did these, oh, I forgot about those.

00:44:44.930 –> 00:44:45.690
CMAT: Gang gang, yeah.

00:44:45.730 –> 00:44:47.150
Oli: We’ll pull that up again.

00:44:47.150 –> 00:44:54.950
Oli: There’s some, we, I think it’s, I’m sure this is one of your ideas, or possibly even Morgan, to put in some like explosive little extra tom hits.

00:44:54.950 –> 00:44:59.970
CMAT: I think it was Morgan’s suggestion, but then I said I wanted to do it because I wanted to just smash something.

00:44:59.970 –> 00:45:00.350
Oli: Yeah.

00:45:00.350 –> 00:45:01.630
CMAT: And I did.

00:45:01.630 –> 00:45:11.090
Oli: So we just grabbed, Timothy at the studio had a whole bunch of extra drums, mainly stored in the bathroom for some reason, which is confusing, but they’re always there.

00:45:11.630 –> 00:45:14.550
Oli: You were constantly reminded of the sheer number of drums around.

00:45:14.550 –> 00:45:21.930
Oli: So we grabbed a big sparkly green drum and tuned it even lower than the lowest one, and then just put it through a bunch of distortion.

00:45:23.130 –> 00:45:24.370
Oli: These extra.

00:45:26.190 –> 00:45:29.410
John Kennedy: So that’s actually you, Ciara, doing that then, making that noise.

00:45:29.410 –> 00:45:30.390
Oli: I think it is.

00:45:30.390 –> 00:45:35.830
CMAT: It’s hard to know who can say, who can say, but if I recall correctly, yes.

00:45:36.950 –> 00:45:40.510
Oli: If I skip to this section here, there’s also some percussion that Morgan wanted to try.

00:45:43.030 –> 00:45:45.490
Oli: It’s just like some bells she found or something.

00:45:48.930 –> 00:45:53.490
CMAT: And they come in from the second verse as well, which really separates it out from the first one.

00:45:53.490 –> 00:46:00.950
CMAT: It makes it like distinct and it’s like it’s leaving somewhere because you have this like tinkly little like, what’s happening next?

00:46:00.950 –> 00:46:01.890
Oli: And these are interesting.

00:46:01.890 –> 00:46:18.230
Oli: You probably wouldn’t even know these were here, but when you first gave me those voice notes, I did a session of just exploring the song, and actually my brother Jamie did some ambient drum things over the top of that voice note for me to play with, and some of those end up in here as little cymbal swallows.

00:46:18.230 –> 00:46:19.870
CMAT: No fucking way.

00:46:20.890 –> 00:46:23.050
CMAT: I actually fully did not know that.

00:46:23.050 –> 00:46:24.450
Oli: Because it got lost in the sauce.

00:46:24.450 –> 00:46:24.870
CMAT: Yeah.

00:46:24.890 –> 00:46:28.490
Oli: Yeah, that’s actually back in Beria where you put the song.

00:46:28.490 –> 00:46:29.790
CMAT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:29.790 –> 00:46:33.550
Oli: Just did some little kind of textural things.

00:46:33.550 –> 00:46:34.290
CMAT: Wow.

00:46:34.370 –> 00:46:35.790
Oli: All woven together.

00:46:40.650 –> 00:46:41.710
Oli: Tambourines.

00:46:41.710 –> 00:46:43.050
CMAT: Is this for the bridge?

00:46:43.050 –> 00:46:43.670
Oli: Yeah.

00:46:43.670 –> 00:46:46.610
Oli: And then the shakers and things.

00:46:46.610 –> 00:46:52.370
Oli: So by the peak of the song, there’s a lot of different rhythmic things all kind of going helpful at it.

00:46:52.370 –> 00:46:55.610
Oli: And also all very, very saturated.

00:46:56.990 –> 00:46:59.050
Oli: It became very dense very quickly.

00:47:01.710 –> 00:47:14.510
John Kennedy: But I love the fact that this is interlinked with the meaning of the song and that the whole idea that you’re trying to get across is being articulated partly by the music and the music selection, the instrument selection and what you’re doing.

00:47:14.590 –> 00:47:15.270
CMAT: Yeah.

00:47:15.270 –> 00:47:17.030
CMAT: I think we’ve always tried to do that.

00:47:17.030 –> 00:47:18.770
CMAT: I think that’s always been the point.

00:47:18.770 –> 00:47:22.370
CMAT: I think songwriting, you know, I could have just been a poet.

00:47:22.370 –> 00:47:24.590
CMAT: I could have just written words down on the page or whatever.

00:47:24.710 –> 00:47:37.370
CMAT: But I think that if you’re going to put a message and words and some kind of hypothesis into song as opposed to the written word, then you have to do whatever you can to support it.

00:47:37.370 –> 00:47:43.270
CMAT: And I think that music, it’s really easy to paint imagery with, you know.

00:47:43.270 –> 00:47:43.990
CMAT: So why would we not?

00:47:43.990 –> 00:47:46.050
CMAT: And I think you always picked up on that immediately.

00:47:46.050 –> 00:47:49.490
CMAT: Like, yeah, you have to you have to support it in whatever way you can.

00:47:50.230 –> 00:48:04.730
CMAT: And something that’s great about Oli is that Oli has a disturbing amount of knowledge of music in his big ol brain and has references for everything and every single genre of music, I would say.

00:48:04.730 –> 00:48:07.930
CMAT: You’re definitely more up on guitar music than I am.

00:48:07.930 –> 00:48:11.150
CMAT: But then I’m really up on like pop music and like pop music history.

00:48:11.150 –> 00:48:13.850
Oli: Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, I would absolutely say the same about you.

00:48:13.850 –> 00:48:17.670
Oli: I think you have an extraordinary bank of information that you store.

00:48:17.910 –> 00:48:24.210
Oli: And what’s interesting when we work together is we often have completely different references that kind of cross over one another quite a lot.

00:48:24.210 –> 00:48:30.230
Oli: But we tend to have parallel interests that maybe there are eras that have happened at the same time.

00:48:30.230 –> 00:48:32.790
Oli: But your reference for that era will be one thing and mine will be something else.

00:48:32.790 –> 00:48:34.170
Oli: And we’ll find the common thread.

00:48:34.170 –> 00:48:38.230
CMAT: I think we have different areas of expertise, but the same tastes.

00:48:38.230 –> 00:48:41.930
CMAT: Like I don’t think you’ve ever shown me something I’ve been like, that’s shite.

00:48:41.930 –> 00:48:42.530
Oli: No, no, no.

00:48:42.530 –> 00:48:43.010
CMAT: Maybe the H.

00:48:43.010 –> 00:48:43.890
CMAT: John Benjamin album.

00:48:43.890 –> 00:48:45.150
CMAT: But I actually love that though.

00:48:45.150 –> 00:48:45.710
Oli: No, I love that.

00:48:45.710 –> 00:48:46.250
CMAT: Yeah, I love it too.

00:48:46.430 –> 00:48:47.490
CMAT: I don’t know why I said that.

00:48:47.490 –> 00:48:48.910
CMAT: Do you know about that album?

00:48:48.910 –> 00:48:49.290
John Kennedy: No, I don’t know.

00:48:49.290 –> 00:48:50.890
CMAT: He plays piano bad on purpose.

00:48:50.890 –> 00:48:51.570
John Kennedy: Right.

00:48:51.570 –> 00:48:52.410
CMAT: It’s great.

00:48:52.650 –> 00:48:53.330
CMAT: So good.

00:48:53.330 –> 00:48:54.590
CMAT: So fucking good.

00:48:54.590 –> 00:49:25.290
CMAT: But yeah, and I think as well as being able to pull from your kind of bank and my bank and put something together that supplements the lyrical content of the song, we’re also able to avoid common pitfalls because I think two of us are allergic to something that sounds too similar to something that we’ve already heard, which therefore makes like everything just kind of very automatically and quickly sound distinct as opposed to trying to make something weird on purpose.

00:49:25.290 –> 00:49:25.790
CMAT: Do you know what I mean?

00:49:25.790 –> 00:49:39.490
CMAT: Like we still want to make something beautiful and use our references, but we’re going to do this bit differently and this bit differently and just like do tiny little tweaks along the way so that when you get to the end, it ultimately sounds like something that hasn’t existed before.

00:49:39.490 –> 00:49:40.950
CMAT: And that always makes me really happy.

00:49:40.950 –> 00:49:44.950
CMAT: And particularly on this record, it makes me really happy because I think we really nailed that thing.

00:49:44.950 –> 00:49:48.510
Oli: Yeah, it’s almost like we at any opportunity, we always choose the long way around.

00:49:48.510 –> 00:49:56.170
Oli: It’s kind of like, well, let’s actually build this rather than find a sample of it or a preset or a soft synth that will basically do it.

00:49:56.170 –> 00:50:02.030
Oli: It’s kind of like, no, let’s actually set up all the things and the microphones and we’ll do the part and then realize it’s the wrong idea and have to start over.

00:50:02.030 –> 00:50:02.850
CMAT: Yeah.

00:50:02.850 –> 00:50:14.430
Oli: So not an efficient way of making a record, but to your point, like I think it was always in pursuit of things that felt unique and really singular that could only have happened if we’d gone in that long meandering journey.

00:50:14.430 –> 00:50:15.270
CMAT: Yeah.

00:50:15.270 –> 00:50:22.750
Oli: And often built of many elements, you know, sort of doing multiple synths together to make a sound rather than just one thing and being like, oh, that’s the sound.

00:50:22.870 –> 00:50:24.030
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:50:24.030 –> 00:50:26.630
John Kennedy: What should we hear before we move on from this track?

00:50:26.630 –> 00:50:29.930
John Kennedy: Because I’m just thinking about the time and we’ve got quite a few songs we want to get through.

00:50:29.930 –> 00:50:42.110
CMAT: I would love to hear the backing vocals isolated from maybe the second chorus into the bridge because the high-pitched counter melody backing vocals are a funny little accident.

00:50:42.110 –> 00:50:42.650
Oli: Yes.

00:50:42.650 –> 00:50:43.290
Oli: Yes, that’s a great thing.

00:50:43.290 –> 00:50:47.630
CMAT: And Barjo Dunnehu was like, who does backing vocals in the chorus?

00:50:47.630 –> 00:50:49.510
CMAT: I was like, that’s me, King.

00:50:49.510 –> 00:50:50.150
CMAT: That’s me.

00:50:50.150 –> 00:50:52.150
CMAT: But it’s pitched up by accident.

00:50:52.150 –> 00:50:52.930
CMAT: He was like, wow.

00:50:52.930 –> 00:50:54.870
Oli: Well, we did it in a different key originally, didn’t we?

00:50:54.870 –> 00:50:58.410
Oli: And so when we did it in a higher key or a lower key, we started out in a lower key.

00:50:58.410 –> 00:50:58.850
CMAT: Yeah.

00:50:58.850 –> 00:51:01.750
Oli: Then we nudged it up at quite a late stage.

00:51:01.750 –> 00:51:05.230
Oli: And so this was your guide vocal that was in place for us to build the track.

00:51:06.070 –> 00:51:11.970
Oli: So when it got pitch-shifted, there was a placeholder, we left it in and very quickly got very attached to it, sounding strange.

00:51:11.970 –> 00:51:15.550
Oli: So there’s this ghostly little pitch-shifted Ciara in the background.

00:51:22.673 –> 00:51:24.433
Oli: And the bridge section is where it’s…

00:51:24.433 –> 00:51:30.553
CMAT: I was gonna say the counter melody backing vocals, like the mom and the dad, you know, the ones that exist independently.

00:51:30.553 –> 00:51:31.353
Oli: That’s right.

00:51:31.353 –> 00:51:33.133
Oli: That must be this one, right?

00:51:36.333 –> 00:51:38.013
CMAT: Yeah, that’s like my favorite thing.

00:51:38.013 –> 00:51:39.913
CMAT: And then I want to hear this one.

00:51:43.153 –> 00:51:44.773
CMAT: Yeah, Barry was like, who does those?

00:51:44.773 –> 00:51:46.433
CMAT: I was like, that’s me.

00:51:48.333 –> 00:51:53.373
CMAT: It was definitely a late stage, because I remember, and this happens sometimes when we’re working together.

00:51:53.373 –> 00:52:00.273
CMAT: We’ll do a lot of work on something and then I’ll kind of come in the next morning and be like, I think it’s in the wrong key.

00:52:00.273 –> 00:52:05.133
CMAT: It’s either I think it’s in the wrong key or I think it’s in the wrong tempo.

00:52:05.133 –> 00:52:06.373
CMAT: I think it’s the wrong BPM.

00:52:06.373 –> 00:52:07.273
CMAT: I think it should be faster.

00:52:07.273 –> 00:52:07.833
CMAT: I think it should be faster.

00:52:07.833 –> 00:52:11.473
CMAT: And we will have already done so well, Oli will have already done so much work on it.

00:52:11.473 –> 00:52:15.373
CMAT: And then I have to come in like an annoying like, oh, I think it’s in the wrong key.

00:52:17.173 –> 00:52:18.153
CMAT: I think we need to make it faster.

00:52:18.153 –> 00:52:21.493
CMAT: And you’re like, well, that’s fine.

00:52:21.493 –> 00:52:26.513
CMAT: And I guess we’ll just like shift it and see how badly that affects the whole thing.

00:52:26.513 –> 00:52:27.473
CMAT: Oh, okay.

00:52:27.473 –> 00:52:27.773
CMAT: Yeah.

00:52:27.773 –> 00:52:30.353
CMAT: The whole track has to be thrown out entirely.

00:52:30.353 –> 00:52:33.953
CMAT: We have to start again from scratch and do another three days work that we weren’t supposed to do.

00:52:33.953 –> 00:52:36.073
Oli: Secretly, I was like, yes, we get to do it all again.

00:52:36.073 –> 00:52:38.333
CMAT: But secretly it’s like, yes, we get to do it all again.

00:52:38.333 –> 00:52:43.853
CMAT: And it always, whenever I’m motivated enough to be like, I have to tell them that it’s too slow.

00:52:44.373 –> 00:52:48.013
CMAT: It’s always, it’s too slow or it’s too low.

00:52:48.013 –> 00:52:49.113
CMAT: It’s always too slow or too low.

00:52:49.113 –> 00:52:57.453
CMAT: And I kind of come in and I’m like, oh, I’ve been listening to one of these things like whenever I’m motivated enough to ruin Oli’s life like that, it always ends up being the right decision.

00:52:57.453 –> 00:52:58.653
CMAT: Cause I know how much work it takes.

00:52:58.653 –> 00:53:00.293
CMAT: Cause I’m like, oh, we have to do it again.

00:53:00.293 –> 00:53:01.693
CMAT: But it always ends up being correct.

00:53:01.693 –> 00:53:03.493
CMAT: And I’m really glad I did it on Euro-Country.

00:53:03.513 –> 00:53:06.933
CMAT: Cause I think we shifted the key so that my vocal was better.

00:53:07.033 –> 00:53:08.073
CMAT: So that I was going.

00:53:08.073 –> 00:53:10.033
Oli: And it changed the whole time, didn’t it?

00:53:10.433 –> 00:53:12.653
Oli: It just, the whole thing felt a little more euphoric.

00:53:12.653 –> 00:53:14.633
CMAT: I think this was too slow and too low.

00:53:15.353 –> 00:53:20.373
CMAT: I think we both upped the BPM and then separately upped the key.

00:53:20.373 –> 00:53:21.813
CMAT: And we had done a lot of work on it.

00:53:21.813 –> 00:53:24.853
CMAT: And that’s why, is that why some of the drums sound weird as well?

00:53:24.853 –> 00:53:27.673
Oli: No, the, I think we did the tempo first.

00:53:27.673 –> 00:53:32.193
Oli: So the drums were okay cause the drums were recorded to our little guide template thing.

00:53:32.193 –> 00:53:37.853
Oli: We then shunted that, but that definitely had messed up all the organ drums and stuff that we’d originally put in.

00:53:38.993 –> 00:53:42.513
John Kennedy: I think we need to hear the whole song now, maybe near the end.

00:53:42.513 –> 00:53:44.353
Oli: So near the end, should I drop you in from around the bridge?

00:53:44.353 –> 00:53:45.533
Oli: Cause that’s kind of the peak.

00:53:45.533 –> 00:53:46.553
CMAT: Yeah, it is the bridge.

00:54:28.055 –> 00:54:37.675
John Kennedy: This is really interesting, because I think the danger here, Ciara, and Oli, is that there are so many layers to your music, both in every single lyric.

00:54:37.675 –> 00:54:50.495
John Kennedy: You know, there’s about 10 different references to different kinds of things, both on a societal level, an individual personal level, and then you’re mirroring that with your music that we could spend every day looking at every single element.

00:54:50.495 –> 00:54:51.995
John Kennedy: But we want to look at a few more songs.

00:54:51.995 –> 00:54:53.175
CMAT: We need to look at some of the songs, yeah.

00:54:53.175 –> 00:54:58.255
John Kennedy: We’re going to take a quick break, and the next song we’re going to look at is Take a Sexy Picture of Me.

00:54:58.255 –> 00:54:59.475
CMAT: Hell yeah.

00:55:01.675 –> 00:55:08.735
John Kennedy: Our partners at Tape It, the iPhone recording app for musicians, have just added one of their most requested features– layering.

00:55:08.735 –> 00:55:12.335
John Kennedy: We ask every artist who comes on the podcast to try out Tape It.

00:55:12.335 –> 00:55:20.315
John Kennedy: One guest in particular had this very specific request to be able to record over voice notes, stack parts and build on an idea.

00:55:20.735 –> 00:55:24.835
John Kennedy: Well, the team at Tape It listened and now layering is here.

00:55:24.835 –> 00:55:33.875
John Kennedy: You can record over your voice notes, which means trying out top lines, building up instruments, jamming with yourself and stacking as many vocal harmonies as you can.

00:55:33.875 –> 00:55:48.275
John Kennedy: It’s honestly one of the most exciting features Tape It’s added so far and it still keeps all the things we love about it– multiple recording options, automatic instrument detection, the ability to add markers, notes and photos to your recordings and shared mix tapes for collaborating.

00:55:48.275 –> 00:55:58.055
John Kennedy: Whether you’re in a writing session, at rehearsal or just singing into your phone at midnight because something just popped into your head, Tape It helps you capture and organize it all without the usual chaos.

00:55:58.055 –> 00:56:04.455
John Kennedy: To find out more and try layering for yourself, head to tape.it forward slash Tape Notes and download Tape It now.

00:56:04.455 –> 00:56:09.195
John Kennedy: And for even more, use the code Tape Notes for 20% off Tape It Pro.

00:56:09.195 –> 00:56:12.295
John Kennedy: That’s tape.it forward slash Tape Notes.

00:56:12.295 –> 00:56:15.095
John Kennedy: The next one we’re going to look at is Take a Sexy Picture of Me.

00:56:15.095 –> 00:56:18.855
John Kennedy: But before we do that, I have a quick question for one of our patrons.

00:56:18.855 –> 00:56:22.795
John Kennedy: So David G has been wondering how you developed your singing style.

00:56:22.795 –> 00:56:23.995
John Kennedy: How did you do it?

00:56:23.995 –> 00:56:26.275
John Kennedy: And have you always been pitch perfect?

00:56:26.275 –> 00:56:27.535
CMAT: Am I pitch perfect?

00:56:27.535 –> 00:56:29.275
CMAT: That’s a very good question.

00:56:29.275 –> 00:56:38.835
CMAT: I remember being about eight years old and we had a game called SingStar, which is on the PlayStation.

00:56:38.835 –> 00:56:43.815
CMAT: And it’s like karaoke, except if you’re good at singing, you win points.

00:56:43.815 –> 00:56:49.455
CMAT: We just kind of casually had this and my mom, like got the cheap one, like which was like gold classics for old people.

00:56:49.455 –> 00:56:51.755
CMAT: And I was like, oh, I wanted the fun one.

00:56:51.755 –> 00:56:54.175
CMAT: I wanted the one with Girls Aloud on it.

00:56:54.175 –> 00:57:00.335
CMAT: But instead we got this like golden classic SingStar, which had the song Crazy by Patsy Cline.

00:57:00.335 –> 00:57:02.395
CMAT: And I was like eight, maybe nine.

00:57:02.395 –> 00:57:10.675
CMAT: And me and my sister used to just go through all of them and sing them all in row because we had nothing to do because we were nine and in Dumboin.

00:57:10.675 –> 00:57:12.435
CMAT: So we just like sing them all all the time.

00:57:13.135 –> 00:57:17.255
CMAT: And every single time I sang Crazy by Patsy Cline, I’d get a perfect score.

00:57:17.255 –> 00:57:20.255
CMAT: And I was like, what does this mean?

00:57:20.255 –> 00:57:25.495
CMAT: And then it developed into like, I’d come home from school or like wait for everyone else to be doing something else.

00:57:25.495 –> 00:57:35.815
CMAT: And I’d like close the door of the sitting room behind me and like turn the volume of the television all the way down and like sing it over and over again to see if I got a perfect score every time and I did.

00:57:35.815 –> 00:57:43.575
CMAT: And I do think that might be the genesis of a lot of my singing was like, because that was when that meant that that was like the first time I would have known that I could sing.

00:57:43.575 –> 00:57:44.215
CMAT: Do you know what I mean?

00:57:44.215 –> 00:57:45.575
CMAT: Yeah.

00:57:45.575 –> 00:57:47.795
CMAT: No music in my family whatsoever.

00:57:47.795 –> 00:57:49.915
CMAT: No music, no musicians, nothing.

00:57:49.915 –> 00:57:53.435
CMAT: I didn’t even meet someone else who played an instrument until I was about 13 or 14.

00:57:53.435 –> 00:57:55.435
CMAT: Like it was not in my wheelhouse.

00:57:55.435 –> 00:57:56.215
CMAT: It was not happening.

00:57:56.215 –> 00:58:01.435
CMAT: It was not a reality that anyone I’d ever known had, you know, happened across.

00:58:01.435 –> 00:58:05.655
CMAT: So I had to rely on the PlayStation to tell me that I was good at singing.

00:58:05.655 –> 00:58:14.075
CMAT: And I think that Patsy Cline, like I loved country because when I was like 12, Taylor Swift was like, what 16, 17.

00:58:14.075 –> 00:58:17.155
CMAT: So she was releasing those absolute bangers of records to begin with.

00:58:17.155 –> 00:58:21.175
CMAT: Like, you know, he’s the reason for the tea drops my guitar.

00:58:21.175 –> 00:58:24.075
CMAT: When she was doing her accent, which she doesn’t have anymore.

00:58:24.075 –> 00:58:26.475
CMAT: But yeah, I just loved country.

00:58:26.475 –> 00:58:31.115
CMAT: And I think I would always consider myself a country singer before anything else.

00:58:31.115 –> 00:58:31.955
CMAT: But I don’t know.

00:58:31.955 –> 00:58:33.675
CMAT: I know that’s not what I sound like anymore.

00:58:33.675 –> 00:58:35.735
CMAT: And people say I sing like Kate Bush a lot.

00:58:36.715 –> 00:58:38.555
CMAT: But I actually just think we have a similar range.

00:58:38.555 –> 00:58:41.975
CMAT: I don’t actually think our singing styles, our singing voices are the same.

00:58:41.975 –> 00:58:45.535
CMAT: I just think we have the same like range and we use it in the same way.

00:58:45.695 –> 00:58:46.935
CMAT: And she’s also Irish.

00:58:46.935 –> 00:58:50.495
CMAT: So and her family’s from Dungarraven, which is where my family are from.

00:58:50.495 –> 00:58:51.375
CMAT: So maybe we’re related.

00:58:51.375 –> 00:58:52.535
CMAT: Who knows?

00:58:52.535 –> 00:58:53.215
CMAT: Who knows?

00:58:53.215 –> 00:58:56.075
John Kennedy: And really SingStar introduced you to classic country.

00:58:56.075 –> 00:58:56.755
John Kennedy: Yeah.

00:58:56.755 –> 00:58:57.995
John Kennedy: At a really young age.

00:58:58.155 –> 00:59:00.255
John Kennedy: It kind of links into another question.

00:59:00.255 –> 00:59:06.135
John Kennedy: So Zach got in touch to say, why does Ireland like American country music so much?

00:59:06.135 –> 00:59:08.315
CMAT: I wish I knew why.

00:59:08.315 –> 00:59:11.175
CMAT: I have some hypotheses.

00:59:11.175 –> 00:59:17.495
CMAT: You know, country and Western American music is actually not American at all.

00:59:17.495 –> 00:59:23.955
CMAT: And it is a melting pot music that happened in the Appalachian Mountains in the 1800s.

00:59:23.955 –> 00:59:40.455
CMAT: And from everything I’ve researched about it, I believe that it is predominantly musically made up of West African traditional music that was remembered by anyone who escaped the slave trade and then ended up in the Appalachian Mountains.

00:59:40.455 –> 00:59:51.955
CMAT: You had a lot of slaves coming over from West Africa who would have built what later became a banjo from memory because they weren’t allowed to take anything obviously with them because they were captured.

00:59:51.955 –> 00:59:53.895
CMAT: So they were building instruments from memory.

00:59:53.895 –> 00:59:56.055
CMAT: And then that kind of ended up transmigrating into banjo.

00:59:56.735 –> 01:00:04.255
CMAT: But also what happened was there was poorer English people bringing over English folk ballads.

01:00:04.255 –> 01:00:09.455
CMAT: And you had a lot of Irish indentured servants coming over at that time.

01:00:09.455 –> 01:00:10.635
CMAT: And they wouldn’t have had anywhere to live.

01:00:10.635 –> 01:00:12.035
CMAT: They would have ended up there.

01:00:12.035 –> 01:00:13.755
CMAT: They would have brought the Shannos.

01:00:13.755 –> 01:00:15.735
CMAT: They would have brought Irish ballads.

01:00:15.735 –> 01:00:19.215
CMAT: They also brought the Irish language and like lilting and all that kind of stuff.

01:00:20.015 –> 01:00:29.835
CMAT: And I think because there is a little bit of Irish in country music, maybe once it traveled back over it, it just hung onto the ear a little bit more.

01:00:29.835 –> 01:00:35.795
CMAT: And we just like it a little bit more because it’s a bit more melodic and it’s really sad and simple.

01:00:35.795 –> 01:00:40.015
CMAT: And I think maybe that lends itself to the Irish psyche and storytelling.

01:00:40.015 –> 01:00:43.315
CMAT: You know, like Irish people literally love to yap.

01:00:43.335 –> 01:00:44.515
CMAT: We love to yap.

01:00:44.515 –> 01:00:46.875
CMAT: We love to chant absolute shit all the time.

01:00:46.875 –> 01:00:47.595
CMAT: It’s our favorite hobby.

01:00:49.355 –> 01:01:02.695
CMAT: And that is in the body of all country music is just people chatting shit, like absolute chatting shit and murder ballads and heartbreak ballads and I’m going to kill my husband with a gun if he doesn’t stop cheating on me songs.

01:01:02.695 –> 01:01:06.015
CMAT: Like, you know, it couldn’t appeal to the Irish psyche more, really.

01:01:06.015 –> 01:01:07.995
CMAT: I think.

01:01:07.995 –> 01:01:08.595
John Kennedy: Fascinating.

01:01:08.595 –> 01:01:09.455
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:01:09.455 –> 01:01:14.175
John Kennedy: Take a Sexy Picture of Me is the next song from Euro-Country that we’re going to have a listen to and find out all about.

01:01:14.295 –> 01:01:15.275
John Kennedy: So let’s have a listen.

01:01:15.275 –> 01:01:19.495
John Kennedy: If you could play maybe a Blast of the Master, that would be brilliant, Oli.

01:01:19.495 –> 01:01:19.815
John Kennedy: Thank you.

01:02:29.764 –> 01:02:35.164
John Kennedy: It is Take a Sexy Picture of Me by CMAT from the album Euro-Country.

01:02:35.164 –> 01:02:38.044
John Kennedy: So where did this all begin then Ciara?

01:02:38.044 –> 01:02:39.324
CMAT: Right.

01:02:39.324 –> 01:02:53.964
CMAT: So, this was one of the songs that I wrote when Oli was gone, after starting the record and feeling like there was something else in the record that needed to be said, that I hadn’t maybe knocked on to just yet.

01:02:53.964 –> 01:03:06.884
CMAT: There’s also an element of, you know, this happened on my first record as well, where I listened to the first draft of the tracklist in my head, and I was like, kind of needs a banger, like kind of just needs a big fat banger, like just needs a big fat pop song.

01:03:06.884 –> 01:03:15.544
CMAT: I feel like I have a group of people in my head and a big crowd of people in my head, and they all are trying to be Leonard Cohen, right?

01:03:15.544 –> 01:03:28.864
CMAT: They’re all trying to be like, we have to be Leonard Cohen, and we have to be Judy Sill, we have to be Karen Dalton, and we have to be like all these like wordsmithy, like we have to be all these like brilliant lyricists, wordsmith genius people.

01:03:28.864 –> 01:03:36.184
CMAT: And then there’s like a dissident in the group that just loves big hip hop music, and she’ll never die, and she’s usually the loudest person in the room.

01:03:36.184 –> 01:03:44.084
CMAT: And there is just this instinct in me all the time that wants to hear a big fat fucking banger, particularly in a track list of songs that are so sad, right?

01:03:44.084 –> 01:03:51.844
CMAT: And like, so, there is just an element of my personality that just every so often wants to cut the crap and hear big fat banger.

01:03:52.524 –> 01:03:56.464
CMAT: So, musically, that was kind of roaming around my mind.

01:03:56.464 –> 01:04:16.564
CMAT: And I also felt like a lot of this record is dealing with like the dark side of commerce, let’s say, the dark side of capitalism, the dark side of the commercial new age, like late capitalist culture that we’re finding ourselves in and like the bad effects that that has on people emotionally and personally day to day.

01:04:17.564 –> 01:04:43.984
CMAT: And I felt like I was being disingenuous or not telling about myself enough if I did not talk about what happened to me last year, which was that essentially I became at that time a semi-famous person who would go on the television or go on, you know, we’d play the BBC Radio One Big Weekend.

01:04:43.984 –> 01:04:45.064
CMAT: This is where the bad one happened.

01:04:45.644 –> 01:04:50.964
CMAT: I’d go on BBC Radio One Big Weekend and the BBC would film it and they’d post it on their socials.

01:04:50.964 –> 01:05:01.824
CMAT: Then they would have to turn the comments off of any videos or pictures of me because everyone in the comments was being so unbelievably horrible about my appearance.

01:05:01.824 –> 01:05:14.524
CMAT: It happened like ten times last year where they just saw these like pig emojis and like vomit emojis and like even now at Running Planning, like I released Running Planning, one of the first comments was like, she looks like she hasn’t ran in years.

01:05:14.524 –> 01:05:19.044
CMAT: It’s just like, it’s just like what is wrong with you people?

01:05:19.044 –> 01:05:30.064
CMAT: And it happened so much last year that it became like its own news item sometimes in the BBC or anyone else and like in a home as well.

01:05:30.064 –> 01:05:32.824
CMAT: They’re like, why are English people slagging off Seam after being fat?

01:05:32.824 –> 01:05:35.744
CMAT: Like they just didn’t, you know, it was such a weird thing.

01:05:35.744 –> 01:05:45.164
CMAT: It was just not something I expected to happen and it was not something that I foresaw happening, really, because, you know, I just look like everyone else that I know.

01:05:45.164 –> 01:05:48.344
CMAT: Like I don’t even think, you know, I just look like everyone else that I know.

01:05:48.344 –> 01:05:52.404
CMAT: And people would ask me in interviews about it a lot, be like, you OK?

01:05:52.404 –> 01:05:55.624
CMAT: And I would be like, yeah, I’m literally fine because I think those people are insane.

01:05:55.624 –> 01:05:56.984
CMAT: And I do.

01:05:56.984 –> 01:05:57.864
CMAT: And I do.

01:05:57.864 –> 01:05:59.044
CMAT: I think those people are insane.

01:05:59.044 –> 01:06:00.884
CMAT: I think they’re withdrawn from life.

01:06:00.884 –> 01:06:02.304
CMAT: I think they’re not doing well.

01:06:02.304 –> 01:06:10.344
CMAT: And I think I’m doing really good because I get to play songs that I write and travel the world with my friends and wear stupid little costumes.

01:06:10.344 –> 01:06:12.424
CMAT: So like I’m having a great time.

01:06:12.424 –> 01:06:15.224
CMAT: This is just a downside to me being a public person.

01:06:16.684 –> 01:06:34.864
CMAT: But slowly but surely, I kind of began to realize that, and this is what’s so great about the album Euro-Country, is why I’m so happy with it, is because I kind of had to stop thinking about myself for a while, which is something I’m not that accustomed to doing because I am a big fat pop star and I love myself so much.

01:06:35.304 –> 01:06:41.704
CMAT: But I was kind of like forcibly dragging myself out of my own head to try and see things from other perspectives.

01:06:41.704 –> 01:07:03.664
CMAT: And what I realized is that I have all these like 15 year old, 16 year old young girls, young girls who like look up to me and like love me that might look exactly like me or bigger than me or just fall outside of what is commercially attractive, what is a commercially viable form of attractiveness or beauty, right?

01:07:04.084 –> 01:07:10.924
CMAT: They fall outside of that and they see that every time I go and do something, that that is what I attract.

01:07:10.924 –> 01:07:14.044
CMAT: It’s not just a culture that makes me feel bad about myself.

01:07:14.044 –> 01:07:17.744
CMAT: It is a culture that makes fucking everybody feel bad about themselves.

01:07:17.744 –> 01:07:23.664
CMAT: And it is totally, I believe, based in commerce and commercial viability and capitalism.

01:07:23.664 –> 01:07:30.664
CMAT: Because if you enter the world, if you go to a club, you go to the club, you’re in the club and you’re trying to neck on with someone, right?

01:07:30.984 –> 01:07:31.784
CMAT: You’re trying to get the shift.

01:07:32.344 –> 01:07:34.424
CMAT: You’re trying to attract a bow.

01:07:34.424 –> 01:07:42.344
CMAT: Your weight or size or image is actually just so inconsequential.

01:07:42.344 –> 01:07:46.664
CMAT: Like no one really ever thinks about that in real life day to day that much ever.

01:07:46.664 –> 01:07:48.744
CMAT: Nobody’s fucking thinking about that shit.

01:07:48.744 –> 01:07:57.344
CMAT: But you put something into the realm of the news, social media, you know, you’re selling a product like me, I’m selling my music.

01:07:57.344 –> 01:08:03.884
CMAT: You put it into an arena where we’re supposed to be selling something, and then suddenly it’s up for criticism and suddenly it’s up for debate.

01:08:03.884 –> 01:08:05.804
CMAT: And I had to write about it.

01:08:08.044 –> 01:08:18.044
CMAT: I just couldn’t have lived with myself if I couldn’t have done something to help counteract all of the fucking bad vibes that happened as a result of people taking umbrage with the way I looked.

01:08:18.044 –> 01:08:21.204
CMAT: And I’m not, you know, I’m not not responsible for that.

01:08:21.204 –> 01:08:26.564
CMAT: I exist because I’m trying to sell something and I kind of had to do something to counteract it and make myself feel better.

01:08:27.384 –> 01:08:31.024
CMAT: So I wrote this song thinking about all that.

01:08:31.024 –> 01:08:44.724
CMAT: And my angle from a musical perspective was write lyrics that will make people, whoever criticised my appearance, feel so uncomfortable with themselves.

01:08:44.724 –> 01:08:55.564
CMAT: Like I want them to feel extremely uncomfortable and point out exactly what they’re doing and point out exactly how bad what they’re doing is and immoral and unethical and like nasty.

01:08:55.764 –> 01:08:59.704
CMAT: Make them feel so uncomfortable, write my most uncomfortable lyrics ever.

01:08:59.704 –> 01:09:04.824
CMAT: Put it in a 3 minute 30 second pop song so that the radio was forced to A list it.

01:09:04.824 –> 01:09:05.844
CMAT: That was my angle.

01:09:05.844 –> 01:09:08.564
CMAT: I was like, I’m going to write my most likeable song ever.

01:09:08.564 –> 01:09:19.804
CMAT: I’m going to write my most on the nose, like sonically, structurally, melodically, everything pop song ever, which I would never normally do, but it’s serving a very distinct purpose here.

01:09:19.804 –> 01:09:32.324
CMAT: I want as many people to hear it as possible so that as many people can feel bad about themselves as possible is out of spite, which I suppose is not great, but that was how I did it.

01:09:33.564 –> 01:09:41.964
CMAT: The chorus took a minute, the chorus took a minute because I was like, how do I do a chorus like this?

01:09:42.364 –> 01:09:58.504
CMAT: It’s also dealing with age, and the fact that women, regardless of what they do, will age out of commercial viability, and women in this current cycle of political system that we have are currently a product, right?

01:09:58.884 –> 01:10:16.964
CMAT: You can read that and see that women are more of a product than men are because of how tantalising young women are to capitalism, and you notice as you get older as a woman that people become less and less nice to you as you go on, because you’re aging out of that, and it’s weird.

01:10:17.584 –> 01:10:22.304
CMAT: So the first lyric I had was, I have been having the most horrible time of late.

01:10:22.544 –> 01:10:24.104
CMAT: I’ve not listened back to this.

01:10:24.104 –> 01:10:25.484
CMAT: This is dated.

01:10:25.484 –> 01:10:28.064
CMAT: So I would have written this on the 21st of October, 2024.

01:10:28.064 –> 01:10:29.444
CMAT: This could be shit.

01:10:29.444 –> 01:10:30.604
CMAT: Just full disclosure.

01:10:30.604 –> 01:10:31.304
CMAT: Do I want to play this?

01:10:31.304 –> 01:10:31.724
CMAT: Yeah, fuck it.

01:11:04.764 –> 01:11:06.004
CMAT: It’s me just being like, don’t out.

01:11:14.337 –> 01:11:17.677
CMAT: So that would have been the 21st of October, 2024.

01:11:17.677 –> 01:11:19.477
CMAT: So that’s the first.

01:11:19.477 –> 01:11:22.017
CMAT: I wonder when Take a Sexy Picture comes in.

01:11:22.017 –> 01:11:24.017
CMAT: I have also, what’s this one?

01:11:27.397 –> 01:11:28.937
CMAT: So then I was working on the verses.

01:11:28.937 –> 01:11:32.757
CMAT: I always wanted to be sexy.

01:11:40.277 –> 01:11:45.557
CMAT: So that was three days later that I started working on the verse.

01:11:45.557 –> 01:11:49.757
CMAT: So I think I remember like kind of dipping in and out of this over the course of a week.

01:11:49.757 –> 01:11:54.117
CMAT: I’m wondering when I got to the Take a Sexy Picture of it all because that was genius.

01:11:54.137 –> 01:11:56.177
CMAT: But I don’t know when I landed on that.

01:11:56.177 –> 01:12:01.837
CMAT: I do remember my friend who’s a musician that week, I guess it would have been the 27th of October.

01:12:01.917 –> 01:12:06.957
CMAT: I can look, she was over from Ireland because she was doing gigs and she was recording in upstate New York.

01:12:06.957 –> 01:12:10.537
CMAT: And I went out on the piss with her and my friend Alison Spittle.

01:12:10.537 –> 01:12:12.977
CMAT: And they came back to my flat in Bedstuy.

01:12:12.977 –> 01:12:18.757
CMAT: And then Aoife, who’s also a Synthie girly nerd, was like, you have two Omnichords in your cinder.

01:12:18.757 –> 01:12:20.657
CMAT: I was like, yeah, I do.

01:12:20.717 –> 01:12:32.157
CMAT: And I played her, because it would have been three days after that, this version, like this songwriting version of Take a Sexy Picture of Me from start to finish, while absolutely Three Sheets of Wind, absolutely locked.

01:12:32.157 –> 01:12:34.897
CMAT: And she was like, that’s amazing.

01:12:34.897 –> 01:12:39.937
CMAT: But I remember being really excited by the song as a result of that, because she had heard it and rated it.

01:12:39.937 –> 01:12:42.897
CMAT: And she would have not rated it to my face if she didn’t think it was good.

01:12:42.897 –> 01:12:45.537
CMAT: I know she wouldn’t have, because she’s too good a songwriter for that.

01:12:45.617 –> 01:12:46.817
CMAT: So yeah.

01:12:46.817 –> 01:12:50.157
CMAT: And then you came back a couple of days later, and I was like, I have this other thing.

01:12:50.157 –> 01:12:51.497
CMAT: You were like, oh.

01:12:51.497 –> 01:12:52.037
Oli: Oh my.

01:12:52.037 –> 01:12:53.117
CMAT: Yeah.

01:12:53.117 –> 01:12:55.617
Oli: I have the voice note from when you first played it to me.

01:12:55.617 –> 01:12:56.277
Oli: Oh yeah, yeah, do that one.

01:12:56.277 –> 01:12:56.797
CMAT: Do you want to hear that?

01:12:56.797 –> 01:12:57.337
CMAT: Yeah, do that one.

01:12:57.337 –> 01:12:59.397
Oli: So this is the first time I heard the song.

01:12:59.397 –> 01:13:00.957
CMAT: Do you have a date for it?

01:13:00.957 –> 01:13:02.997
Oli: I do, but it’s not attached to this.

01:13:02.997 –> 01:13:09.117
Oli: But it would be, I know for a fact that I came back like, something like the 28th-ish of October.

01:13:09.117 –> 01:13:10.057
CMAT: Of October.

01:13:10.137 –> 01:13:11.517
CMAT: So it’s less than a week after I started it.

01:13:11.517 –> 01:13:12.637
Oli: We did it the first week in November.

01:13:12.697 –> 01:13:17.637
Oli: I remember for a fact, so you would have come back into the studio then, like first week in November.

01:13:17.637 –> 01:13:22.377
CMAT: So I would have started it, like my genesis of the song would have been like a week before I showed it to you.

01:13:22.377 –> 01:13:22.717
Oli: Yeah, exactly.

01:13:22.717 –> 01:13:24.517
CMAT: That’s a pretty quick turnaround, even for us.

01:13:24.517 –> 01:13:26.837
Oli: And by this point, you’ve got all the pieces in place.

01:13:26.837 –> 01:13:27.557
CMAT: Yeah.

01:13:27.557 –> 01:13:30.177
Oli: So this was what you played me.

01:13:30.177 –> 01:13:31.757
Oli: Sorry, which one is this?

01:13:31.757 –> 01:13:34.377
CMAT: This is Take a Sexy Picture of Me.

01:13:34.377 –> 01:13:34.817
Oli: Okay.

01:14:10.196 –> 01:14:12.136
John Kennedy: So this is the Omnichord version?

01:14:12.136 –> 01:14:12.436
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:14:12.476 –> 01:14:14.456
John Kennedy: With the built-in drum machine, is that what you have?

01:14:14.456 –> 01:14:15.116
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:14:15.116 –> 01:14:15.696
Oli: Yeah.

01:14:15.696 –> 01:14:17.696
CMAT: She’s a trooper.

01:14:17.696 –> 01:14:18.496
CMAT: She’s a workhorse.

01:14:18.496 –> 01:14:23.336
John Kennedy: They are a great instrument because you can flesh out a song with a couple of buttons.

01:14:23.336 –> 01:14:24.436
CMAT: I have about six of them.

01:15:44.676 –> 01:15:46.096
CMAT: Is that you singing as well?

01:15:46.096 –> 01:15:48.016
CMAT: You’re starting to like sing along to learn it.

01:15:50.416 –> 01:15:51.156
CMAT: Because you do that.

01:15:51.156 –> 01:15:57.236
CMAT: You generally, when I show you something for the first time, you start like singing what you think is going to come next to learn it faster.

01:15:57.236 –> 01:15:58.356
CMAT: I think I can hear you doing that.

01:15:58.596 –> 01:16:00.616
CMAT: That’s really funny.

01:16:00.636 –> 01:16:01.876
CMAT: It’s the whole song anyway.

01:16:02.236 –> 01:16:03.976
John Kennedy: It’s amazing to hear this.

01:16:03.976 –> 01:16:08.736
John Kennedy: It’s so great to see that evolution in such a short space of time and in just a few notes.

01:16:08.736 –> 01:16:13.696
John Kennedy: And then, it leaps into the stems that you’ve forgotten.

01:16:13.696 –> 01:16:16.636
John Kennedy: But you can hear the whole thing in the sense of the sound.

01:16:17.556 –> 01:16:22.136
John Kennedy: Because I think this song sounds like a country soul song to me.

01:16:22.136 –> 01:16:25.676
John Kennedy: It has a bit of soul sound to it as well as a bit of country in there.

01:16:25.836 –> 01:16:32.636
CMAT: There is so many very direct references to Gladys Knight and the Pips in this song.

01:16:32.636 –> 01:16:36.156
CMAT: Shout out Gladys, love you so much Queen.

01:16:36.156 –> 01:16:40.096
CMAT: Like even in the bridge, I go, you haven’t looked at me the same since I turned 27.

01:16:40.096 –> 01:16:41.176
CMAT: Where goes my potential?

01:16:41.176 –> 01:16:42.216
CMAT: She’s up in heaven.

01:16:42.216 –> 01:16:47.136
CMAT: Rest in peace to any chance of me dating within my station.

01:16:47.136 –> 01:16:49.256
CMAT: Woo woo, woo woo.

01:16:49.256 –> 01:16:51.236
CMAT: Like that is just, that’s just Gladys Knight.

01:16:51.236 –> 01:16:52.156
John Kennedy: Midnight train to Georgia.

01:16:52.196 –> 01:16:55.736
CMAT: Because I was like, station, train station, woo woo.

01:16:55.736 –> 01:17:14.776
CMAT: And I was always looking for like a way of just making it more delicious and like tasty and immediate and like fun because it’s so dark, because it’s so grim and so dark that I’m like, we have to just, we have to just counteract this bad boy somehow and make it more accessible.

01:17:14.776 –> 01:17:15.496
Oli: Yeah.

01:17:15.496 –> 01:17:16.916
CMAT: Which is also in the music.

01:17:16.916 –> 01:17:17.496
Oli: Yeah, totally.

01:17:17.496 –> 01:17:20.096
Oli: I mean, that’s that was literally how you described it to me that day.

01:17:20.176 –> 01:17:25.696
Oli: I think it was like, this needs to be really fun and shiny and like the most pop thing we do on the record.

01:17:25.696 –> 01:17:25.996
CMAT: Yeah.

01:17:25.996 –> 01:17:29.416
Oli: Because it’s absolutely savage at its core.

01:17:29.416 –> 01:17:32.596
Oli: And that was kind of basically a license to have a lot of fun with it, wasn’t it?

01:17:32.656 –> 01:17:33.476
Oli: Yeah.

01:17:33.476 –> 01:17:46.036
Oli: So we took the actually very similar musical, sorry, instrumental palette to what we used on Euro-Country, totally different song and then just kind of used all those same flavors in a totally different way.

01:17:46.036 –> 01:17:52.476
Oli: So again, with the Omnichords, the Mellotrons and the String Synths and the sort of crunchy drums.

01:17:52.476 –> 01:18:05.036
Oli: But this time we’re in this sort of soul like 60s-ish world and bringing in the pedal steel for the, we didn’t really go into the pedal steel in the other song, but Dan Ayed played on this one and the other one remotely.

01:18:05.036 –> 01:18:08.416
Oli: So we just would get these stems and drop them in and see what it did.

01:18:08.416 –> 01:18:13.496
Oli: And he’s so good that it always just did something very cool straight away.

01:18:13.496 –> 01:18:16.516
Oli: So we could sort of just literally have some faders, we would just dial up the country a little bit.

01:18:16.856 –> 01:18:20.716
CMAT: The pedal steel line on this in particular is so important.

01:18:22.696 –> 01:18:26.016
CMAT: Like it really sets the tone weirdly.

01:18:26.016 –> 01:18:28.056
Oli: Should we do a little mini build here?

01:18:28.056 –> 01:18:30.596
Oli: I could do some Omnichord and then throw stuff in on top.

01:18:30.596 –> 01:18:34.196
John Kennedy: Just kind of quickly get into the song and then we can isolate things again.

01:18:34.196 –> 01:18:34.716
Oli: All right.

01:18:34.716 –> 01:18:36.956
Oli: Here is Omnichord.

01:18:39.636 –> 01:18:41.836
Oli: This time with a bit of phaser on it for good measure.

01:18:41.916 –> 01:18:43.456
CMAT: Yeah, I need that.

01:18:47.916 –> 01:18:51.016
Oli: Silly soulful piano.

01:18:51.016 –> 01:18:53.136
CMAT: As performed by Oli Deakin.

01:18:53.136 –> 01:18:54.156
CMAT: Am I right?

01:18:54.156 –> 01:18:55.256
Oli: Yes.

01:18:55.256 –> 01:18:57.516
Oli: It was a sketch that sort of made the cut.

01:18:59.576 –> 01:19:01.216
John Kennedy: And is that Oli on bass then?

01:19:01.216 –> 01:19:03.036
John Kennedy: It is.

01:19:03.036 –> 01:19:04.396
CMAT: Man’s a freak.

01:19:05.416 –> 01:19:07.376
Oli: Bunch of acoustic guitars.

01:19:07.376 –> 01:19:08.716
Oli: Lots of 12-string on the record.

01:19:08.836 –> 01:19:11.316
Oli: I mean, it’s just one of the first ones to have that.

01:19:14.516 –> 01:19:15.856
Oli: Electric guitars.

01:19:15.856 –> 01:19:19.336
Oli: And then you hear the sort of glitchy steels that come in there.

01:19:26.391 –> 01:19:27.831
Oli: Getting over here.

01:19:29.531 –> 01:19:33.491
CMAT: Oh, where’s the guitar, where’s the bass?

01:19:33.491 –> 01:19:35.891
CMAT: Oh, we missed it.

01:19:35.891 –> 01:19:40.091
CMAT: Oh, somehow the most important part of the song, for me.

01:19:41.071 –> 01:19:44.831
CMAT: Yeah.

01:19:44.831 –> 01:19:45.911
Oli: Bunch more Mellotrons.

01:19:45.911 –> 01:19:48.671
Oli: Oh, yeah, so it’s coming up.

01:19:48.711 –> 01:19:51.271
CMAT: We just used the same instruments on the normal.

01:19:51.271 –> 01:19:59.471
Oli: This was one actually where the Mellotron really came into its own actually later on as well, because I think we talked a lot about having some sort of brass elements.

01:19:59.471 –> 01:20:06.511
Oli: But we didn’t want to, I think we talked about it, about maybe we get some horns on there and up, but we didn’t want to go too sort of retro pop.

01:20:06.511 –> 01:20:13.371
Oli: So we used the Mellotron and we did a quick sketch of this and using the Mellotron app on the phone just to scratch it out.

01:20:13.411 –> 01:20:21.771
Oli: And then later on, like, I think even after you left, I pulled up some of the horn sounds, and we got whole layered horns from the Melotron.

01:20:21.771 –> 01:20:23.551
Oli: So those are all in here, just doing there.

01:20:30.511 –> 01:20:32.311
Oli: It’s all buried underneath.

01:20:32.311 –> 01:20:34.791
CMAT: They are super buried in particular.

01:20:34.791 –> 01:20:35.231
CMAT: Well, yeah.

01:20:35.271 –> 01:20:37.511
Oli: It’s all just little, little textures.

01:20:37.511 –> 01:20:38.411
Oli: And some more here.

01:20:38.411 –> 01:20:39.351
Oli: Oh, I just killed them all.

01:20:47.271 –> 01:20:50.051
Oli: The Melotron strings.

01:20:50.051 –> 01:20:50.451
CMAT: Oh, yeah.

01:20:50.451 –> 01:20:53.891
CMAT: Break them.

01:21:00.931 –> 01:21:03.171
CMAT: Can I hear the woo-woo’s?

01:21:03.171 –> 01:21:03.891
Oli: Yeah, where are they?

01:21:03.891 –> 01:21:04.231
Oli: Where are they?

01:21:04.591 –> 01:21:05.851
Oli: They’re in there somewhere.

01:21:05.891 –> 01:21:08.751
CMAT: Because the way you did them also makes them sound more like a train.

01:21:13.511 –> 01:21:14.071
Oli: Ready?

01:21:14.071 –> 01:21:14.611
Oli: So good.

01:21:20.088 –> 01:21:22.928
CMAT: What’s going w-w-w-w-when did that happen?

01:21:22.928 –> 01:21:24.768
CMAT: Because I remember that sounded so good.

01:21:24.768 –> 01:21:25.688
Oli: Somewhere in the middle, I think.

01:21:25.688 –> 01:21:25.808
Oli: Yeah.

01:21:25.808 –> 01:21:26.508
Oli: I forget where.

01:21:26.508 –> 01:21:28.088
Oli: So the wah-wah guitar.

01:21:28.088 –> 01:21:30.888
CMAT: It just makes it so distinct, that section from everything else.

01:21:51.275 –> 01:21:54.855
CMAT: The drums on this are absolutely amazing as well.

01:21:54.855 –> 01:21:57.155
CMAT: Can we hear the drums I said a few minutes ago?

01:21:57.155 –> 01:21:59.215
Oli: Give you a little drum to see, shall I?

01:22:02.575 –> 01:22:03.615
John Kennedy: The same drummer.

01:22:03.615 –> 01:22:06.055
Oli: Same drummer, same mic set up as well.

01:22:06.055 –> 01:22:17.455
Oli: Like I was saying, it was kind of to keep those parallels, different mix on them, like different balance of the microphones, but very much kind of going for like a mix of very modern, close things and then these blown out room mics.

01:22:18.655 –> 01:22:21.895
John Kennedy: And the backing vocals all you, Ciara?

01:22:21.895 –> 01:22:24.515
CMAT: On this song, yeah, on this song, they’re all me.

01:22:24.855 –> 01:22:42.735
CMAT: I tried a little bit this album to get a mix of like Oli and Colm and like other people singing backing vocals because I was like, it’s very pop to just do all your own BVs, but sometimes, sometimes I’m the only person that can do those stupid noises with my mouse.

01:22:43.355 –> 01:22:44.155
CMAT: Do you know what I mean?

01:22:44.155 –> 01:22:50.635
CMAT: Particularly on this one, where I’m like, woo woo or like all that kind of stuff and they’re ha ha ha.

01:22:50.635 –> 01:22:53.835
CMAT: Because I was doing Bee Gees’ voice, ha ha ha ha.

01:22:53.835 –> 01:22:54.835
Oli: We should pull that up really.

01:22:54.835 –> 01:22:55.035
Oli: Oh yeah.

01:22:55.035 –> 01:22:55.915
Oli: That was something you brought.

01:22:55.915 –> 01:22:57.055
CMAT: That’s actually really important.

01:22:57.055 –> 01:23:02.855
Oli: You put that in right from the top and you had a very specific idea of what you wanted it to sound like, not to sound like part of the main vocal.

01:23:02.855 –> 01:23:08.315
Oli: So we kind of doctored it a little bit, sent it through a Leslie type emulator.

01:23:08.315 –> 01:23:10.815
Oli: It’s like a stock one on Pro Tools, I think.

01:23:10.815 –> 01:23:14.335
Oli: Something like that to give it a wobbly old sound.

01:23:14.335 –> 01:23:15.675
Oli: Let me see if I can find that.

01:23:15.675 –> 01:23:17.135
Oli: I think it’s this.

01:23:21.335 –> 01:23:23.875
CMAT: That actually took a second to get right, I think.

01:23:27.795 –> 01:23:33.475
Oli: So it just had that very particular sound to it, just to be its own little world, not part of the main vocal.

01:23:34.635 –> 01:23:37.295
Oli: So much later on that kind of all gets woven in with everything else.

01:23:53.710 –> 01:24:00.610
Oli: But yeah, that was sort of, that was a very particular thing early on, I think, was you wanted that hook to be almost like an instrumental thing, really, wasn’t it?

01:24:00.610 –> 01:24:01.750
Oli: The voice as instrument.

01:24:01.750 –> 01:24:02.910
CMAT: Yeah, yeah.

01:24:02.910 –> 01:24:08.950
CMAT: I think that, I mean, I wouldn’t have done it was I not literally thinking of Gladys Knight and the Pips, probably.

01:24:08.950 –> 01:24:11.470
CMAT: But then I also was like, you can’t just do that.

01:24:11.470 –> 01:24:22.190
CMAT: You have to muddy it up in some way and make it weird to and but in a tasteful way to my ear anyway.

01:24:22.190 –> 01:24:28.750
CMAT: I definitely wanted to wanted to work like a guitar riff, essentially, or like work like a horn riff or something.

01:24:28.750 –> 01:24:33.630
CMAT: But imagining the Pips behind me, but the Pips are me somehow.

01:24:33.630 –> 01:24:37.810
CMAT: But also they’re on a big star planet, you know.

01:24:37.810 –> 01:24:42.810
John Kennedy: It sounds like a video to me with, you know, multiple Kira’s all over the place.

01:24:42.810 –> 01:24:44.290
CMAT: My dream.

01:24:44.330 –> 01:24:45.690
CMAT: It’s got to be done.

01:24:45.690 –> 01:24:47.310
CMAT: My dream slash nightmare.

01:24:48.510 –> 01:24:49.610
John Kennedy: That sounds amazing.

01:24:49.610 –> 01:24:50.470
John Kennedy: Thank you.

01:24:50.470 –> 01:24:51.930
John Kennedy: Absolutely amazing.

01:24:51.930 –> 01:24:52.890
John Kennedy: We’ve got to move on.

01:24:52.890 –> 01:24:53.410
CMAT: Yeah.

01:24:53.410 –> 01:24:54.870
John Kennedy: We should look at another song.

01:24:54.870 –> 01:24:57.270
John Kennedy: So the next song we’re going to look at is Iceberg.

01:24:57.270 –> 01:25:05.390
John Kennedy: We’re going to take a quick break, maybe a reprise of Take a Sexy Picture of Me, maybe the very end or something like that, to see us out from this song.

01:25:38.805 –> 01:25:45.085
John Kennedy: So that is Take a Sexy Picture of Me, and the next song we’re going to look at from Euro-Country by CMAT is Iceberg.

01:25:48.125 –> 01:25:53.605
John Kennedy: This episode is supported by Museversal, an amazing new service for working with session musicians remotely.

01:25:53.605 –> 01:25:59.345
John Kennedy: If you use session musicians or would like to, but it’s been too expensive or hard to organize, this is for you.

01:25:59.345 –> 01:26:05.325
John Kennedy: And we have an exclusive offer for any Tape Notes listeners, 50% off for the first month.

01:26:05.325 –> 01:26:08.445
John Kennedy: And you get to skip the waitlist, but more on that in a moment.

01:26:08.445 –> 01:26:11.705
John Kennedy: I’ve got David from Museversal here to tell us more about it.

01:26:11.705 –> 01:26:14.905
John Kennedy: Hi David, great to have you on What is Museversal?

01:26:15.325 –> 01:26:16.785
CMAT: Hey, thanks for having me here, John.

01:26:16.785 –> 01:26:18.225
CMAT: I really appreciate it.

01:26:18.225 –> 01:26:24.865
CMAT: Museversal is a platform to book unlimited remote recording sessions with world class session musicians.

01:26:24.865 –> 01:26:31.845
CMAT: We’re all too familiar with just how cumbersome, expensive, time consuming it can be to record great musicians on your music.

01:26:31.845 –> 01:26:37.885
CMAT: So essentially what we did was we went and hired world class recording talent, drummers, cellists, guitarists, et cetera, you name it.

01:26:37.885 –> 01:26:41.165
CMAT: And then we created a platform where you can book live remote sessions with them.

01:26:41.165 –> 01:26:46.285
CMAT: So it takes that complexity away and allows you to focus just on making great music with great people.

01:26:46.285 –> 01:26:50.825
John Kennedy: So we’ve had lots of great feedback from Tape Notes listeners already using Musiversal.

01:26:50.825 –> 01:26:53.545
John Kennedy: Can you tell us more about the musicians that they’ve been working with?

01:26:53.545 –> 01:26:54.345
CMAT: Yeah, absolutely.

01:26:54.345 –> 01:26:58.445
CMAT: So we have a super selective hiring process to make sure we’re only hiring the best.

01:26:58.445 –> 01:27:06.365
CMAT: And the result of that is that we have musicians who’ve worked for the likes of Elton John, The Killers, Jay-Z, Multi-Time Grammy winners, you name it.

01:27:06.365 –> 01:27:07.145
CMAT: We’ve got it.

01:27:07.145 –> 01:27:09.005
CMAT: We pay them a stable monthly income.

01:27:09.005 –> 01:27:14.365
CMAT: And the benefit for you as a member is that you get a roster that you can depend on around the clock.

01:27:14.365 –> 01:27:15.425
John Kennedy: Very impressive.

01:27:15.425 –> 01:27:16.925
John Kennedy: How does it work?

01:27:16.925 –> 01:27:19.305
CMAT: Yeah, so it’s designed to be extremely easy.

01:27:19.305 –> 01:27:23.905
CMAT: All you need to do is pick a time, book a session, and send your song in whatever stage it’s in.

01:27:23.905 –> 01:27:29.285
CMAT: You can send sheet music, a chord chart, audio files, and then tell the musician what you’d like them to do.

01:27:29.285 –> 01:27:32.005
CMAT: You know, they can either play as is or improvise, right?

01:27:32.005 –> 01:27:36.645
CMAT: And so then you’ll join the musician over live stream and they’ll start recording right off the bat.

01:27:36.645 –> 01:27:42.885
CMAT: Because the session’s live, it’s like you’re literally sitting in the studio with them and you get to give that feedback in real time.

01:27:42.885 –> 01:27:46.185
CMAT: And then you’ll get your session files to download right afterwards.

01:27:46.185 –> 01:27:49.425
John Kennedy: And David, can you remind us of the offer for Tape Notes listeners?

01:27:49.425 –> 01:27:54.385
CMAT: Yes, so we’re huge Tape Notes fans here and we wanted to have an offer that’s exclusive to you guys.

01:27:54.385 –> 01:27:57.185
CMAT: So we have a 50% discount for your first month.

01:27:57.185 –> 01:28:03.485
CMAT: So it’ll cost you $99 or 75 pounds for unlimited remote recording sessions in your first month.

01:28:03.485 –> 01:28:07.925
CMAT: And unlike everyone else, you’ll be able to skip our waitlist and start booking sessions right away.

01:28:08.405 –> 01:28:13.125
John Kennedy: That is 50% off folks, half price, what an amazing Christmas gift.

01:28:13.125 –> 01:28:14.645
John Kennedy: Thank you very much, David.

01:28:14.645 –> 01:28:19.225
John Kennedy: To get the offer, find the link in any of our recent episode show notes.

01:28:19.225 –> 01:28:22.825
John Kennedy: The next song we’re going to look at from CMAT’s Euro-Country is Iceberg.

01:28:22.825 –> 01:28:28.945
John Kennedy: But before that, I have a quick one for you from Hannah, who says, what is the most random place you’ve come up with an idea for a song?

01:28:28.945 –> 01:28:33.965
John Kennedy: I quite like this question because it seems to me, you could be anywhere to come up for an idea.

01:28:34.425 –> 01:28:35.985
CMAT: Ciara.

01:28:35.985 –> 01:28:40.585
CMAT: I mean, I say this a lot, but I do write every day.

01:28:40.585 –> 01:28:41.905
CMAT: I write something every day.

01:28:41.905 –> 01:28:43.785
CMAT: I write bits and pieces every day.

01:28:43.785 –> 01:28:49.925
CMAT: And you guys were all just witness to me scrolling through my voice messages and were horrified by how many there is.

01:28:49.925 –> 01:28:51.905
CMAT: If I have an idea, I like singing in.

01:28:51.905 –> 01:28:53.245
CMAT: I don’t know about the weirdest place.

01:28:53.245 –> 01:28:57.685
CMAT: I know the most common place is like the shower, the toilet.

01:28:57.685 –> 01:29:02.045
CMAT: The most annoying one is like, and this is why I don’t sleep, I’m really bad at sleeping.

01:29:02.045 –> 01:29:02.905
CMAT: I’m really, really bad at sleeping.

01:29:03.425 –> 01:29:08.485
CMAT: I’ll be falling asleep and my head is in between like consciousness and unconsciousness.

01:29:08.485 –> 01:29:10.985
CMAT: And that is when the real good shit lands.

01:29:10.985 –> 01:29:22.045
CMAT: And then I have to rise myself from my falling asleep slumber and go to my phone, which is in a different room or at the end of my bed so that I don’t just scroll on my phone before sleeping.

01:29:22.045 –> 01:29:29.325
CMAT: And I have to record it and like work on it and like do some drafts for maybe 20 minutes and then try fall asleep again.

01:29:29.325 –> 01:29:32.025
CMAT: And then more often than not, the same thing will happen again.

01:29:32.325 –> 01:29:35.565
CMAT: And I will not sleep and that’s that’s every day.

01:29:35.565 –> 01:29:37.165
CMAT: That’s every day of my life.

01:29:37.165 –> 01:29:38.825
CMAT: Trying to think weirdest place.

01:29:38.825 –> 01:29:46.025
CMAT: I guess what’s weird is like there’s this romantic notion of like writing on the road.

01:29:46.025 –> 01:29:47.065
CMAT: Never done that.

01:29:47.065 –> 01:29:48.165
CMAT: Not not really.

01:29:48.165 –> 01:29:52.185
CMAT: Like you never really come up with good stuff on tour because it’s too overstimulating all the time.

01:29:52.185 –> 01:29:57.465
CMAT: And I think your brain needs some like airtime and some space and boringness and stupidness.

01:29:57.465 –> 01:30:07.445
CMAT: And you don’t really get that on tour where you’re busy all day every day and then every day ends in a crowd of people screaming at you, but how much they love you.

01:30:07.445 –> 01:30:13.385
CMAT: Like you don’t really get like you don’t really get enough like brain time in between all that.

01:30:13.385 –> 01:30:15.705
CMAT: Yeah, maybe Ireland’s the weirdest place.

01:30:15.705 –> 01:30:16.925
CMAT: I don’t know.

01:30:18.585 –> 01:30:19.605
John Kennedy: Very interesting.

01:30:19.605 –> 01:30:23.125
John Kennedy: So let’s hear Iceberg, a blast to the master, please, Oli, if you can.

01:31:32.957 –> 01:31:34.917
John Kennedy: That is just a little taste of Iceberg.

01:31:34.917 –> 01:31:37.257
John Kennedy: So where did this one begin Ciara?

01:31:37.257 –> 01:31:41.477
CMAT: The other two songs I wrote entirely by myself.

01:31:41.477 –> 01:31:43.217
CMAT: Most of the songs on this record are that way.

01:31:43.217 –> 01:31:52.197
CMAT: This one is unusual, and I think was like the genesis for the sound of a lot of the record, which is really nice.

01:31:52.197 –> 01:31:56.337
CMAT: I’d been in Nashville for two weeks, three weeks or something.

01:31:57.417 –> 01:32:01.237
CMAT: Before I went over, my publisher was like, yeah, you’re going to go over and do some songwriting.

01:32:01.237 –> 01:32:09.757
CMAT: So I was in Nashville by myself, and they were like, here’s a list of songwriters that you could possibly work with and do sessions with.

01:32:09.757 –> 01:32:13.157
CMAT: And the list was as long as a fucking football field.

01:32:13.157 –> 01:32:20.977
CMAT: Like it was just like endless scroll of people’s names, and they all had like credits and other cuts associated with.

01:32:20.977 –> 01:32:24.917
CMAT: And because it’s Nashville, everyone had had cuts on almost the same kind of group of records.

01:32:25.277 –> 01:32:30.617
CMAT: So there’s nothing, like there’s no way for me to like separate anyone from anyone else.

01:32:30.617 –> 01:32:34.777
CMAT: And one of the names on the list was Tori Tullier.

01:32:34.777 –> 01:32:38.017
CMAT: And I literally just picked her because she had a cool name.

01:32:38.017 –> 01:32:39.577
CMAT: I was like, that’s a cool name.

01:32:39.577 –> 01:32:41.357
CMAT: I guess I’ll write with her.

01:32:41.357 –> 01:32:46.237
CMAT: No other reasoning, no other reason, because there was nothing I could separate anyone else out from.

01:32:46.237 –> 01:32:50.117
CMAT: I did a lot of other sessions, varying degrees of success.

01:32:50.117 –> 01:33:00.557
CMAT: I found Nashville in general, everyone’s lovely, very hard working and I respect being in a place where everybody works so hard at music all the time.

01:33:00.557 –> 01:33:05.477
CMAT: However, it’s America, it’s Nashville, it’s industry.

01:33:05.477 –> 01:33:15.337
CMAT: Really, everyone’s bottom line is how do I make a cut on the radio and how do I get a cut on an album that wins a pop Grammy, right?

01:33:15.337 –> 01:33:16.777
CMAT: Which is not what I was there to do.

01:33:16.777 –> 01:33:19.177
CMAT: This is just not what I was there to do.

01:33:19.177 –> 01:33:22.177
CMAT: And so I hadn’t really had a good hit rate.

01:33:22.397 –> 01:33:26.437
CMAT: I don’t think I’d had any songs where I was like, yeah, I love this song.

01:33:26.437 –> 01:33:28.677
CMAT: And this was my last session.

01:33:28.677 –> 01:33:31.317
CMAT: And everything else had been in the studio.

01:33:31.317 –> 01:33:33.297
CMAT: And Tory was like, come over to my house.

01:33:33.297 –> 01:33:37.157
CMAT: And also, is it okay if I invite my friend Cam around, Cam Neill?

01:33:37.157 –> 01:33:40.097
CMAT: And I was like, sure, don’t know who that is, don’t know who you are.

01:33:40.097 –> 01:33:43.497
CMAT: I’m just turning up to someone’s house and hoping I don’t get murdered.

01:33:43.497 –> 01:33:44.457
CMAT: Let’s go.

01:33:44.457 –> 01:33:47.917
CMAT: I turn up, Tory’s lovely and Cam is lovely.

01:33:47.917 –> 01:33:53.077
CMAT: And within like five to 10 minutes, he’s just like, you live in the UK?

01:33:53.077 –> 01:33:54.017
CMAT: I was like, yeah.

01:33:54.017 –> 01:33:55.397
CMAT: He’s like, you ever go to Brighton?

01:33:55.397 –> 01:33:56.917
CMAT: I was like, I currently live in Brighton.

01:33:56.977 –> 01:33:59.257
CMAT: He’s like, you know anyone from Bella Union?

01:33:59.257 –> 01:34:01.757
CMAT: He’s like, I know everyone from Bella Union.

01:34:01.757 –> 01:34:03.597
CMAT: My guitar player is on Bella Union.

01:34:03.597 –> 01:34:04.817
CMAT: I know Simon Raymond very well.

01:34:04.817 –> 01:34:09.037
CMAT: Like I know every, like, I’ve been signed to Bella Union like twice.

01:34:09.037 –> 01:34:09.577
CMAT: I can’t remember.

01:34:09.577 –> 01:34:13.437
CMAT: He just was basically like, I know everyone on Bella as well.

01:34:13.437 –> 01:34:14.797
CMAT: And I was like, no way.

01:34:14.797 –> 01:34:18.477
CMAT: So then we realized we had loads of people in common and like loads of music in common.

01:34:19.197 –> 01:34:20.597
CMAT: So I was like, oh, okay.

01:34:20.597 –> 01:34:25.877
CMAT: Like maybe this one won’t go into that super commercial pocket, whatever, right?

01:34:25.877 –> 01:34:27.277
CMAT: We’re like, what do we want to write about?

01:34:27.277 –> 01:34:46.017
CMAT: And I had had an idea for a while and a couple of lyrics in my head, a couple of things in my head that I wanted to write about my friend, my best friend, Bella, who is a lawyer and who, for a period of time, her brain was absolutely destroyed by her.

01:34:46.117 –> 01:34:48.157
CMAT: She’s an amazing lawyer and she’s an amazing job now.

01:34:48.217 –> 01:34:49.737
CMAT: And I know she loves her job now.

01:34:49.737 –> 01:35:01.357
CMAT: But when she was like studying and she was studying for it and she was working in a restaurant as well because she was like having to put herself through.

01:35:01.357 –> 01:35:12.837
CMAT: And I just was like living with this person who was her everyday life 24-7 was consumed by work and having to work and having to go to work and having to make a living and having to figure out how she was going to work.

01:35:12.837 –> 01:35:17.277
CMAT: And I mean, you could say the same for me, but you know, I’m a musician.

01:35:17.837 –> 01:35:22.977
CMAT: And so I’m just like thinking about my feelings, but this is like real world consequences.

01:35:22.977 –> 01:35:25.117
CMAT: And there was so much pressure on her.

01:35:25.117 –> 01:35:30.197
CMAT: And I saw her personality just kind of like disintegrate and disintegrate over time for a while.

01:35:30.197 –> 01:35:37.497
CMAT: And I was like, oh yeah, that is what the gig economy and the rise and grind economy is doing to people.

01:35:37.497 –> 01:35:39.177
CMAT: It’s absolutely crushing them.

01:35:39.177 –> 01:35:49.237
CMAT: It’s like completely crushing them and tearing their personalities away from their bodies entirely, because it’s very difficult to have any reading room under all those constraints.

01:35:50.357 –> 01:36:04.057
CMAT: And I’d had that idea in my head and I was like, I really want it to kind of sound like a song that would be the incidental music for the Gilmore Girls, because I love the Gilmore Girls so much.

01:36:05.297 –> 01:36:11.117
CMAT: And you know, I wanted it to be like uplifting and like a warm hug of a song.

01:36:11.117 –> 01:36:12.857
CMAT: And I was like, what do girls do?

01:36:14.217 –> 01:36:17.017
CMAT: When they have even a minor inconvenience in their life.

01:36:17.017 –> 01:36:20.257
CMAT: And it’s you watch every single episode of the Gilmore Girls and hope for the best.

01:36:20.257 –> 01:36:22.717
CMAT: And this is a common theme in my life.

01:36:22.717 –> 01:36:32.297
CMAT: So I kind of explained all this and Tory had like this idea of like the first line of being like cheap cabernet, staining your teeth.

01:36:32.297 –> 01:36:34.877
CMAT: And then I was like, what if it’s like kissing your teeth, like bad lip stain.

01:36:34.877 –> 01:36:43.777
CMAT: And then we talk about Kiss Magazine from Ireland, which is this teen girl magazine that we used to collect and you could send your pictures in and they print them out and you’d be like, oh my god, my picture’s in the magazine.

01:36:43.777 –> 01:37:07.577
CMAT: And we were just like going into all this kind of like, like I wanted to build, and this is how the song ends up being, is like I wanted to build this picture of two old girlfriends sitting on the sofa, drinking a bottle of red wine, watching Titanic where one person knows that the other person is not doing well, but the other person won’t admit it.

01:37:07.577 –> 01:37:20.597
CMAT: And that’s what the whole song is always like, we need to like, wrap as much of this Titanic like indoor cozy sitting room aesthetic and imagery and like two girly pops having a bottle of wine.

01:37:20.597 –> 01:37:27.057
CMAT: Like I wanted to like wrap it all up in the song, both musically, sonically and lyrically.

01:37:27.057 –> 01:37:37.057
CMAT: And Tori was just the perfect person to write with for that because she had so much in her back pocket already and she was such a good person to like bounce things off of.

01:37:37.717 –> 01:37:39.897
CMAT: She would just be like, what about the door?

01:37:39.897 –> 01:37:41.297
CMAT: You know, like he’s floating on the door.

01:37:41.297 –> 01:37:44.737
CMAT: It’s like he won’t like she would fall on the door and she could have pulled him up.

01:37:44.737 –> 01:37:49.837
CMAT: But you know, if it was Bella, I’d be pulling her up at the door when he just let him drown.

01:37:49.837 –> 01:37:51.917
CMAT: And you know, we were kind of going for it.

01:37:51.917 –> 01:37:56.677
CMAT: And Cam was kind of sitting back on, you two sure know a lot about the Titanic and the Gilmore girls.

01:37:56.677 –> 01:37:58.837
CMAT: So I was like, yeah, we do.

01:37:58.837 –> 01:38:00.097
CMAT: Yeah, we do.

01:38:00.097 –> 01:38:02.877
CMAT: And you know, Cam has such good, Cameron reminds me of you actually.

01:38:02.877 –> 01:38:04.617
CMAT: I feel like you two actually have people in common.

01:38:04.617 –> 01:38:07.157
CMAT: You have like the L King people in common because you used to play for L King.

01:38:07.157 –> 01:38:10.617
Oli: We definitely know some friends in the same circles.

01:38:10.617 –> 01:38:11.997
CMAT: Yeah, you definitely know the same people.

01:38:11.997 –> 01:38:18.217
CMAT: But so he just had like all the kind of melodic and musical sensibilities go with it.

01:38:18.217 –> 01:38:19.617
CMAT: So we wrote the song.

01:38:19.617 –> 01:38:20.557
CMAT: We wrote the song one day.

01:38:20.557 –> 01:38:25.217
CMAT: I actually have a picture of like, this was like the notebook that I was writing it in that day.

01:38:25.217 –> 01:38:26.317
CMAT: I have a picture of that.

01:38:26.317 –> 01:38:26.857
CMAT: So that’s cool.

01:38:26.857 –> 01:38:29.817
CMAT: And I probably have some like of the early.

01:38:29.817 –> 01:38:30.517
CMAT: Let me have a look.

01:38:30.517 –> 01:38:32.037
CMAT: Let me have a look.

01:38:32.037 –> 01:38:35.077
CMAT: Iceberg, 24th of April, 2024.

01:38:35.777 –> 01:38:38.077
CMAT: Let’s see what this sounds like.

01:38:38.077 –> 01:38:39.857
CMAT: I’ll pretend to have a tambourine in my hands.

01:38:41.197 –> 01:38:41.557
CMAT: That’s calm.

01:39:59.245 –> 01:40:00.645
CMAT: I think that works.

01:40:02.825 –> 01:40:11.505
John Kennedy: It’s interesting you were having a conversation about Bally Union and that kind of connection because to me, a little bit of the verses on this song remind me of John Grant, who I know you’ve worked with.

01:40:11.505 –> 01:40:15.385
John Kennedy: No, who is a friend of yours, but it has that kind of feel.

01:40:15.385 –> 01:40:18.545
John Kennedy: No, so I can see how it’s all interconnecting.

01:40:18.545 –> 01:40:21.545
CMAT: He’s so inspiring to me.

01:40:21.545 –> 01:40:22.505
CMAT: He’s so inspirational.

01:40:22.605 –> 01:40:28.125
CMAT: The way he puts songs together is so unbelievably tasty and delicious.

01:40:28.125 –> 01:40:30.785
CMAT: He’s so rich of a songwriter.

01:40:30.785 –> 01:40:32.545
CMAT: His melodies are crazy.

01:40:32.545 –> 01:40:34.125
CMAT: His imagery is crazy.

01:40:34.125 –> 01:40:37.005
CMAT: He can just go on and on and on.

01:40:37.005 –> 01:40:42.745
CMAT: He could make two records a year and they would all be good because he just has that much in his back pocket.

01:40:42.745 –> 01:40:45.485
CMAT: So I really appreciate you saying that because I really do love that man.

01:40:46.185 –> 01:40:48.465
CMAT: I sleep with John Grant pillowcase.

01:40:49.065 –> 01:40:55.865
CMAT: He released a special pillowcase merchandise, which is his face covered in blood.

01:40:55.865 –> 01:40:57.685
CMAT: I sleep with that on my bed every night.

01:40:57.685 –> 01:40:58.885
CMAT: I love him that much, I really do.

01:40:58.885 –> 01:40:59.365
John Kennedy: Wow.

01:40:59.365 –> 01:41:00.225
John Kennedy: That’s amazing.

01:41:00.225 –> 01:41:02.225
John Kennedy: So now we have that demo.

01:41:02.225 –> 01:41:06.905
John Kennedy: We’ve heard a little bit of how the song ended up to progress with Oli recording it.

01:41:07.105 –> 01:41:08.405
John Kennedy: Or what did you do?

01:41:08.465 –> 01:41:13.425
CMAT: So actually what happened was, so we wrote that like that in the house one day.

01:41:13.425 –> 01:41:21.665
CMAT: And then Cam was like, one of my buddies is here from Oklahoma, and he’s staying in my friend’s house, who’s in East Nashville, kind of out in the countryside.

01:41:21.665 –> 01:41:25.745
CMAT: Well, I say it’s countryside, it’s like 20 minutes from the city centre, but you’re basically on a farm.

01:41:25.745 –> 01:41:30.225
CMAT: We could just go over and get like a scratch demo of it tomorrow at some point, if you and Tory are free.

01:41:30.245 –> 01:41:33.385
CMAT: So I was really keen for Tory’s vocals to stay on this.

01:41:33.385 –> 01:41:38.525
CMAT: Cause I mean, you could hear in that demo even, when her voice just sounded so amazing and was so important.

01:41:38.525 –> 01:41:40.565
CMAT: And kind of changed the melody, I think a lot.

01:41:40.565 –> 01:41:47.965
CMAT: Cause I was going, Iceberg tonight, and she was the one that was kind of like rounding off the edges of the melody a little bit.

01:41:47.965 –> 01:41:50.445
CMAT: So I was like, she’s got to be on it.

01:41:50.445 –> 01:41:55.865
CMAT: So literally the next day, I got a taxi out to Jesse’s house.

01:41:55.865 –> 01:42:01.885
CMAT: He, I think his studio was called like Rancho Deluxe or something very funny like that.

01:42:01.885 –> 01:42:05.585
CMAT: I’m suddenly faced with a lot of American men who look like Oli Deakin.

01:42:07.105 –> 01:42:08.465
CMAT: That aren’t wearing any shoes.

01:42:08.465 –> 01:42:12.645
CMAT: It’s like that it was literally like the Tennessee Oklahoma version of Oli Deakin.

01:42:12.965 –> 01:42:21.845
John Kennedy: So for anybody who hasn’t seen a picture of Oli, just in case, Oli has lovely, luscious, long locks with a beard and you’re wearing a baseball cap.

01:42:21.845 –> 01:42:24.365
John Kennedy: Your baseball cap says Lopines, which is your band.

01:42:24.365 –> 01:42:25.985
Oli: Yeah, just hook in the merch.

01:42:25.985 –> 01:42:26.665
John Kennedy: Good idea.

01:42:26.665 –> 01:42:28.825
CMAT: Lopines, Lopines.

01:42:28.825 –> 01:42:30.805
John Kennedy: So tapping into that American look, I guess.

01:42:31.465 –> 01:42:39.505
CMAT: Well-made pieces of denim and an obscure band t-shirt, you know, and long hair and they’ve no shoes on and they’re just cool dudes.

01:42:39.505 –> 01:42:42.245
CMAT: And Jesse’s like, would you like to drink some straight gin?

01:42:42.245 –> 01:42:46.105
CMAT: And I was like, hell yeah, it’s 2pm, sounds about the right time.

01:42:46.105 –> 01:42:51.585
CMAT: Then like we’re sitting at the back at one point and I started getting gunshots going off in the distance and I was like, what’s happening?

01:42:51.585 –> 01:42:53.065
CMAT: They’re like, I don’t know.

01:42:53.065 –> 01:42:54.285
CMAT: That’s what happens here.

01:42:54.285 –> 01:42:55.765
CMAT: And I was like, okay.

01:42:57.225 –> 01:43:09.005
CMAT: And so I think Jesse’s playing bass, Cam plays, like I basically sing the Mellotron line that happens in the chorus at Cam, probably 75 times, God bless him.

01:43:09.005 –> 01:43:14.565
CMAT: Because he was trying to just be like, yeah, I’m just going to like free flow and just like write it and do it differently every time off the top of my head.

01:43:14.565 –> 01:43:15.865
CMAT: And I was like, no.

01:43:15.865 –> 01:43:19.585
CMAT: I was like, this is what it’s, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

01:43:19.585 –> 01:43:21.845
CMAT: And I kept doing it over and over again.

01:43:21.905 –> 01:43:26.505
CMAT: So his other friend who was there, wish I could remember his name, off the top of my head, he was amazing.

01:43:26.505 –> 01:43:34.585
CMAT: The drummer and Jesse, who recorded it and played bass, are both, I could be wrong.

01:43:34.585 –> 01:43:40.105
CMAT: I think they’re both session players in the current iteration of Creedence Clearwater Revival.

01:43:40.105 –> 01:43:42.505
CMAT: And that’s what they were off tour from.

01:43:42.505 –> 01:43:45.885
CMAT: And so they were just kind of hanging out and were like, yeah, we can cut this.

01:43:45.885 –> 01:43:53.585
CMAT: And I think that the first demo version of this that existed was cut in no more than two takes.

01:43:53.585 –> 01:43:54.265
CMAT: It’s amazing.

01:43:54.265 –> 01:43:56.465
CMAT: Like, Tory’s voice is so good in it.

01:43:56.465 –> 01:44:01.085
CMAT: The drums are so slow and syrupy, which is my favourite thing.

01:44:01.085 –> 01:44:07.825
CMAT: So when we came to like actually doing the proper recording of it, we toyed around with like doing it again from scratch.

01:44:07.825 –> 01:44:18.145
CMAT: And I was kind of insistent on this, like, I just think we should keep the stems and just get the stems because we like did it the day after we wrote it and it was so fresh and there was something so magical about it.

01:44:18.225 –> 01:44:23.665
CMAT: And it is sonically, esthetically very much in lockstep with what we both like anyway.

01:44:23.665 –> 01:44:25.465
CMAT: So it’s like, let’s not waste it.

01:44:25.465 –> 01:44:32.205
Oli: Yeah, it was kind of ironic really that it, so much of it was actually exactly the way we were approaching things in all the other songs.

01:44:32.225 –> 01:44:34.885
Oli: So it was kind of, I actually have that demo version here.

01:44:34.885 –> 01:44:35.325
Oli: Oh, do you?

01:44:35.325 –> 01:44:36.845
Oli: Yeah, because obviously we built the song around it.

01:44:36.845 –> 01:44:37.345
CMAT: Yeah.

01:44:37.345 –> 01:44:43.185
Oli: I always kept that original bounce handy in the session just to refer back to, to see if we were missing anything.

01:44:43.185 –> 01:44:43.465
CMAT: Yeah.

01:44:43.485 –> 01:44:44.805
Oli: So I can play a bit of that if you’d like.

01:44:45.905 –> 01:44:48.485
Oli: So this is the version as you first sent it to me.

01:45:55.920 –> 01:45:58.880
CMAT: The drummer is called Alberto and he was amazing.

01:45:58.940 –> 01:46:00.140
CMAT: He was amazing, amazing.

01:46:00.140 –> 01:46:02.080
CMAT: And a very, very funny guy.

01:46:03.220 –> 01:46:06.820
CMAT: Yeah, and I think he lives in Oklahoma actually, but yeah.

01:46:06.820 –> 01:46:14.020
CMAT: They were just, it really was like, I do think you should go there at some point and look at yourself in a mirror, an American mirror.

01:46:14.020 –> 01:46:14.700
CMAT: They were just so-

01:46:15.260 –> 01:46:16.220
Oli: Get some sal-tips.

01:46:16.220 –> 01:46:17.000
CMAT: Yeah.

01:46:17.000 –> 01:46:20.540
CMAT: I mean, were you on Bally Union, question mark, at any point?

01:46:20.540 –> 01:46:21.460
Oli: You know, around that way.

01:46:21.580 –> 01:46:22.980
Oli: I did a sort of publishing thing with them.

01:46:22.980 –> 01:46:23.940
CMAT: Yeah, of course you did.

01:46:24.440 –> 01:46:29.640
CMAT: All the greats, all the greats end up through the doors at some point and back out.

01:46:29.640 –> 01:46:31.940
CMAT: Big fan of them.

01:46:31.940 –> 01:46:33.460
CMAT: They’re so amazing.

01:46:33.780 –> 01:46:37.760
John Kennedy: So you’ve got that demo, but you then used that to-

01:46:37.800 –> 01:46:40.500
Oli: Yeah, we sort of, I mean, you loved the demo, and I could see why.

01:46:40.500 –> 01:46:42.520
Oli: And it totally made sense to build from it.

01:46:42.520 –> 01:46:46.200
Oli: So we just started to carefully, well, first of all, we had to sort of rebuild it.

01:46:46.200 –> 01:46:53.540
Oli: So we got the stems and had to bring it back into the world and then started just adding a few little elements here and there.

01:46:53.540 –> 01:47:00.400
Oli: We didn’t do anything too drastic, but if you like what I can do is I’ll play that again and then just cut to where we ended up and then we can isolate some things.

01:47:00.420 –> 01:47:03.760
Oli: So this is sort of where the demo sits.

01:47:08.720 –> 01:47:10.860
Oli: And then we just added this, that and the other.

01:47:39.696 –> 01:47:46.736
Oli: So I think one of the main things we really wanted to bring in in this, that we talked about earlier on actually, was just some kind of keyboard-y thing, apart from the Mellotron.

01:47:46.736 –> 01:47:53.176
Oli: So we happily had Colm from your live band come and join us for a few days in the studios.

01:47:53.176 –> 01:48:04.376
Oli: And we had a lovely Wurlitzer in the studio, so we threw in just a few passes of just this lovely sort of couple of very free takes he did, of just this.

01:48:22.763 –> 01:48:24.423
Oli: I mean, I could listen to it all day, it’s the right show.

01:48:24.423 –> 01:48:27.223
CMAT: Yeah, Colum is such a great player.

01:48:27.223 –> 01:48:34.523
CMAT: He’s really like, there’s such a difference between session players and people who learn their instruments by ear.

01:48:34.523 –> 01:48:40.183
CMAT: And you just like, you just know, you know, and he’s such a talented guy.

01:48:40.183 –> 01:48:46.603
CMAT: I love, I love his contribution all across the record, but that one was particularly like the glue that holds it together.

01:48:46.603 –> 01:48:53.923
CMAT: Could we hear the vocal stems, like the, the, the stack of vocal stems for like the last chorus?

01:48:53.923 –> 01:48:55.303
Oli: Yeah, cause we really built that out.

01:48:55.303 –> 01:48:56.083
CMAT: Cause that was important.

01:48:56.083 –> 01:48:58.243
Oli: We’ve added more, much more to that.

01:48:58.243 –> 01:49:00.543
CMAT: Hey girl, it’s fine.

01:49:00.543 –> 01:49:01.483
CMAT: That bit.

01:49:01.483 –> 01:49:02.623
Oli: Yeah, that would be around here, right?

01:49:33.403 –> 01:49:36.163
CMAT: Could you turn the whirly off for a second for the last?

01:49:36.163 –> 01:49:37.463
Oli: Absolutely can.

01:49:37.463 –> 01:49:38.883
John Kennedy: So how many voices are on that?

01:49:38.883 –> 01:49:40.603
John Kennedy: Is that all you Ciara?

01:49:40.603 –> 01:49:42.063
CMAT: No, that’s me and Tori.

01:49:42.063 –> 01:49:42.363
John Kennedy: Right.

01:49:42.363 –> 01:49:43.403
CMAT: I left her in.

01:49:44.083 –> 01:49:44.843
CMAT: I got my wish.

01:50:14.703 –> 01:50:15.683
CMAT: So nice.

01:50:15.683 –> 01:50:17.723
John Kennedy: And how are you recording those vocals?

01:50:17.723 –> 01:50:19.163
Oli: These ones?

01:50:19.163 –> 01:50:24.623
Oli: Well, obviously, the original ones were done back there, which I’m not sure exactly what mics to use and stuff.

01:50:24.643 –> 01:50:25.983
CMAT: But we did…

01:50:25.983 –> 01:50:29.783
Oli: For ours, I think we did almost everything on the M49.

01:50:29.783 –> 01:50:35.983
Oli: So we just, there’s a Neumann M49 at the studio that we use for almost all the Cures vocals on the record.

01:50:35.983 –> 01:50:48.723
Oli: Cause it’s kind of just, I mean, amongst a couple of others, but it’s one of the best mics for your voice, I think, cause it just gets all of your range dynamically and tonally in a way that many mics don’t seem to.

01:50:48.723 –> 01:50:52.363
Oli: And yeah, they’re all just sort of stacked up one after the other.

01:50:52.363 –> 01:50:54.923
Oli: And we ended up with, how many is it in the end?

01:50:54.923 –> 01:51:02.363
Oli: They’re in pairs there, so two, four, six, and then these are the singles, so seven, eight, nine, and two lead.

01:51:02.363 –> 01:51:05.343
Oli: So 11, 11 layers all together.

01:51:05.343 –> 01:51:10.663
John Kennedy: And what’s going on on the track when all those vocals are going on?

01:51:10.663 –> 01:51:11.603
Oli: You mean in the music?

01:51:12.023 –> 01:51:15.023
Oli: Yeah, so let’s have a look.

01:51:15.023 –> 01:51:20.663
Oli: Again, things that we added to this are fairly minimal, but aside from that whirly, we added some pump organs.

01:51:20.663 –> 01:51:23.023
Oli: There was a pump organ at Studio that we used.

01:51:23.023 –> 01:51:24.863
Oli: Probably more than we should have.

01:51:24.863 –> 01:51:26.043
CMAT: We couldn’t stop using it.

01:51:26.043 –> 01:51:28.523
Oli: Bless it, its pumping days were numbered.

01:51:28.523 –> 01:51:31.683
Oli: And so we were sort of getting as much out of it as we could.

01:51:31.683 –> 01:51:37.323
Oli: I think it was solely in need of some repairs, but that is very much in the mix at this point.

01:51:37.323 –> 01:51:41.643
CMAT: You could hear the stomp on the feet pedals more than you could hear the organs sometimes.

01:51:43.543 –> 01:51:46.003
Oli: You hear furiously pumping away.

01:51:49.343 –> 01:51:51.303
Oli: It was like a slightly asthmatic pump organ.

01:51:51.303 –> 01:51:52.783
CMAT: Yeah.

01:51:52.783 –> 01:51:53.403
CMAT: So great.

01:51:53.463 –> 01:51:56.003
Oli: So in the mix of everything there with all those steps.

01:52:37.072 –> 01:52:38.152
Oli: Beautiful.

01:52:38.152 –> 01:52:47.812
John Kennedy: So a little adventure away from Oli in New York, but worth it to go to Nashville to be able to come back with that and then complete it with Oli for the album.

01:52:48.292 –> 01:53:04.772
CMAT: I think it was the song that really informed maybe the sound of the record, because it was so instinctive, and it felt like, it reminded me of when we made Cowboy in 2019, which was I just had a song and then we just recorded it and there was no other thought.

01:53:05.152 –> 01:53:07.052
CMAT: There was no other thought that got into it.

01:53:07.052 –> 01:53:14.472
CMAT: And then by Misadventure, I suppose, we ended up with the sound of that record.

01:53:14.472 –> 01:53:18.132
CMAT: And I feel like a similar nothing happened there.

01:53:18.132 –> 01:53:21.812
CMAT: And it’s not a dissimilar sound from that era either.

01:53:21.812 –> 01:53:41.552
CMAT: But it was all very instinctive and I just loved the song so much that I was like, if we can get a palette together of stuff that complements it, sit in the body of it, but then also we move out and away from it in a way that’s still complimentary, then we will have done it.

01:53:41.552 –> 01:53:43.652
CMAT: And yeah, so I just, I love that song.

01:53:43.652 –> 01:53:44.332
CMAT: Love it.

01:53:44.332 –> 01:53:49.292
John Kennedy: Yeah, it’s been fascinating to hear about the creation of these songs, but we will have to say goodbye.

01:53:49.292 –> 01:53:53.712
John Kennedy: But before we let you go, we have a couple of questions that we ask everybody who comes on Tape Notes.

01:53:53.712 –> 01:54:06.872
John Kennedy: So one is a tech question or equipment question about what you would save in a burning fire for your studio or that you couldn’t live without or that you couldn’t work without on a given project, particularly maybe this record.

01:54:06.872 –> 01:54:11.692
CMAT: I mean, the Neumann probably has to be saved because it’s worth so much fucking money.

01:54:11.692 –> 01:54:15.412
CMAT: Of that studio that’s getting saved before a child is getting saved.

01:54:15.412 –> 01:54:16.452
Oli: Yeah.

01:54:16.452 –> 01:54:28.512
Oli: And I think for specifically you, I think the Omnichord has been such a huge writing tool and also then a big part of the sound of the records, really, in your first record as well, in a very different way.

01:54:28.512 –> 01:54:38.492
Oli: But it’s been such a useful sort of conduit from idea in your head to a shareable idea to something that actually also can play a part in the final thing.

01:54:38.492 –> 01:54:41.952
Oli: It’s such a, I mean, they’re fairly ubiquitous now in studios.

01:54:41.952 –> 01:54:43.252
Oli: You see them around a lot.

01:54:43.252 –> 01:54:44.872
Oli: Everyone uses them slightly differently.

01:54:44.872 –> 01:54:50.852
Oli: And it’s just, it’s become a very useful kind of, just to get us there kind of tool.

01:54:50.852 –> 01:54:51.472
Oli: Yeah.

01:54:51.472 –> 01:54:59.552
CMAT: There is a video of me playing the Omnichord for the first time ever in my life in your sitting room when I am 19 years old.

01:54:59.672 –> 01:55:03.392
CMAT: And I haven’t been able to find it, but I know it exists because I remember it.

01:55:03.392 –> 01:55:06.592
CMAT: Changed the trajectory of my life, question mark.

01:55:06.592 –> 01:55:08.012
John Kennedy: That’s amazing.

01:55:08.012 –> 01:55:18.832
John Kennedy: The other question we ask everybody is about advice and whether you’ve picked up any advice along the way or whether you’ve had experiences that would lead you to hand on advice to other people.

01:55:18.832 –> 01:55:23.872
John Kennedy: And it’s interesting because both of you have had quite checkered and different trajectories.

01:55:23.872 –> 01:55:30.092
John Kennedy: You know, you’ve been involved, Oli, in all sorts of different music, from being in bands to producing bands.

01:55:30.092 –> 01:55:40.352
John Kennedy: Ciara, you’ve kind of gone through various different permutations in a way of what you’re trying to get to and in the last kind of, I suppose, five years or so really landed on it.

01:55:40.352 –> 01:55:43.032
John Kennedy: But you kind of explored quite a few different things before that.

01:55:43.032 –> 01:55:43.392
CMAT: Yeah.

01:55:43.392 –> 01:55:49.012
CMAT: Five years ago today, by the way, was the first ever CMAT song released into the world.

01:55:49.072 –> 01:55:49.592
CMAT: Did you know that?

01:55:49.632 –> 01:55:50.092
CMAT: Yeah.

01:55:50.092 –> 01:55:52.712
CMAT: KFC was exactly five years ago today.

01:55:52.712 –> 01:55:54.272
CMAT: Wow.

01:55:54.272 –> 01:55:56.732
CMAT: Which is mad because you’re right.

01:55:57.852 –> 01:56:03.712
CMAT: Like listening to this record compared to listening to something like KFC, which Oli also made, is just so funny.

01:56:03.712 –> 01:56:04.972
CMAT: It’s just so funny.

01:56:04.972 –> 01:56:06.432
CMAT: Like we really didn’t know what we were doing.

01:56:06.432 –> 01:56:07.212
CMAT: We were like, Saxophone?

01:56:07.212 –> 01:56:09.132
CMAT: Yeah, what up.

01:56:09.132 –> 01:56:10.492
Oli: Extra saxophone.

01:56:10.492 –> 01:56:11.492
CMAT: More saxophone.

01:56:11.492 –> 01:56:13.132
CMAT: That’s great advice.

01:56:13.132 –> 01:56:15.072
CMAT: More saxophone, if possible.

01:56:15.092 –> 01:56:17.532
CMAT: Use an Omnichord, use a Mellotron, don’t use anything else.

01:56:19.052 –> 01:56:20.732
CMAT: Advice.

01:56:20.732 –> 01:56:31.012
CMAT: I guess the advice is work every day all the time and sacrifice every single element of your personal life constantly from the age of 12 onwards to become a musician, if that’s what you feel like doing.

01:56:31.012 –> 01:56:38.392
CMAT: I wish I had any more specific advice, but that does feel like the one thing I have to tell to people whenever someone is like, how did you do it?

01:56:38.392 –> 01:56:41.152
CMAT: I’m like, I didn’t ever do anything else.

01:56:41.152 –> 01:56:42.752
CMAT: And I think that’s true of you as well.

01:56:42.752 –> 01:56:44.292
CMAT: You never did anything else.

01:56:44.292 –> 01:56:46.092
Oli: No, no, it’s true, unfortunately.

01:56:46.692 –> 01:56:48.392
CMAT: There was no plan B.

01:56:48.392 –> 01:56:49.612
CMAT: It’s kind of just like…

01:56:49.612 –> 01:56:57.772
Oli: There’s a certain type that I think finds this kind of thing just so compelling and addictive that you do just end up thinking about it and doing it all the time.

01:56:57.772 –> 01:57:10.732
Oli: And I think not at the expense of your health and the rest of your life, but to a point it’s, you know, if that’s the way you feel kind of compelled to live your life, then it will probably lead you down a path to something creative.

01:57:10.732 –> 01:57:20.552
Oli: I think if I was gonna add a caveat to that in form of advice, it would only be to like, if you’re gonna do that, make sure you’re only ever doing it in a way that brings you joy and that you really love.

01:57:20.552 –> 01:57:24.632
Oli: Because if you start trying to please other people with it, it gets very dark very quickly.

01:57:24.652 –> 01:57:25.332
CMAT: Yeah.

01:57:25.332 –> 01:57:27.832
Oli: I don’t think that will, it won’t lead to a good place.

01:57:27.832 –> 01:57:39.012
Oli: Whereas if you fail doing something else that you love, then you didn’t really fail, you know, but you could have a huge amount of success if it’s something that makes you miserable, and that’s not gonna be much fun.

01:57:39.012 –> 01:57:57.232
CMAT: And trust your gut, I think, is the other piece of advice, which is so basic, but like, I spent a lot of my early life being in rooms with like various producers and people who could help me make music when I was like 17, 18, who just kind of walked all over me.

01:57:57.672 –> 01:58:10.372
CMAT: Not in a bad way, not in a way where they were being mean or, you know, trying to walk on me, but I just assumed that I knew nothing, even though we were in the room for my songs and my singing, right?

01:58:10.372 –> 01:58:21.272
CMAT: So many of the first people I ever worked with, that was the experience, was like, they were telling me how good music is made and they were telling me what the standard is and the industry standard is.

01:58:21.272 –> 01:58:25.772
CMAT: And then I met Oli when I was 18 and you were the first person that didn’t do that at all.

01:58:25.772 –> 01:58:27.732
CMAT: You were kind of like, what are you into?

01:58:27.732 –> 01:58:28.832
CMAT: I love this song.

01:58:28.832 –> 01:58:29.632
CMAT: What should we do?

01:58:29.632 –> 01:58:30.392
CMAT: I love this song.

01:58:30.392 –> 01:58:31.252
CMAT: Tell me what you want.

01:58:31.252 –> 01:58:32.452
CMAT: I love this song.

01:58:32.452 –> 01:58:39.672
CMAT: And you really, really, really gave me so much confidence at a time where I had none and really taught me how to trust my gut.

01:58:39.672 –> 01:58:41.392
CMAT: And now I’m 29 and we’re still working together.

01:58:41.872 –> 01:58:45.752
CMAT: And I’ve gone through other, you know, I’ve worked with other people and I just keep coming back.

01:58:46.412 –> 01:58:48.932
CMAT: Keep going back for more, what can I say?

01:58:48.932 –> 01:58:51.772
CMAT: We’ll go mad in the basement room at some point.

01:58:51.772 –> 01:58:54.072
CMAT: We’ll absolutely lose our minds collectively.

01:58:54.072 –> 01:58:59.792
CMAT: But you know, trust your gut and find people around you who will help you learn to trust your gut is like really good.

01:58:59.792 –> 01:59:04.232
CMAT: Even if you feel like you don’t know what you’re talking about, but you have an instinct, follow the instinct.

01:59:04.232 –> 01:59:06.972
CMAT: Because maybe you don’t know what you’re talking about, but you’re probably right.

01:59:06.972 –> 01:59:09.772
CMAT: If it’s to your taste and it’s your song, it’s your piece of music.

01:59:10.452 –> 01:59:16.072
CMAT: You’re like, I know this is the correct type of drum sound, but I just wish it sounded a bit shitter.

01:59:16.072 –> 01:59:17.872
CMAT: Then it should sound shitter.

01:59:17.872 –> 01:59:21.012
CMAT: It’s not one size fits all.

01:59:21.012 –> 01:59:23.612
CMAT: You should always follow your instincts and follow your gut.

01:59:23.612 –> 01:59:25.372
John Kennedy: Thank you so much for coming in.

01:59:25.372 –> 01:59:25.692
CMAT: Thank you.

01:59:25.692 –> 01:59:33.152
John Kennedy: Thank you so much for all your time and for sharing so much stuff over the time of creation of this record.

01:59:33.152 –> 01:59:34.812
John Kennedy: Really, really fascinating stuff.

01:59:34.812 –> 01:59:38.172
John Kennedy: We should play one more song from the album as a kind of outro.

01:59:38.172 –> 01:59:39.232
John Kennedy: What should we go for?

01:59:39.452 –> 01:59:43.552
John Kennedy: I mean, I was kind of thinking maybe Janis Joplin-ing, if I’m saying it correctly.

01:59:43.592 –> 01:59:46.592
CMAT: I would love to hear Janis Joplin-ing right now.

01:59:46.592 –> 01:59:51.052
John Kennedy: Because it is the closing song on the album, but also you’ve invented a new verb.

01:59:51.232 –> 01:59:52.892
John Kennedy: Yeah.

01:59:52.892 –> 01:59:55.112
John Kennedy: And that’s to be commended, obviously.

01:59:55.112 –> 01:59:55.372
CMAT: Thank you.

01:59:55.372 –> 01:59:56.892
John Kennedy: What is Janis Joplin-ing?

01:59:56.892 –> 01:59:58.992
CMAT: It’s to hit self-destruct.

01:59:58.992 –> 02:00:04.432
John Kennedy: It’s to hit the self-destruction button, which is what you do when you’re isolated.

02:00:04.432 –> 02:00:15.572
John Kennedy: And this song, if I’m being absolutely honest, the initial song, the initial genesis of me writing this song was I had a crush on someone who was married.

02:00:15.572 –> 02:00:16.532
John Kennedy: Don’t worry, I never did anything.

02:00:16.532 –> 02:00:17.952
John Kennedy: I’m not a bitch.

02:00:17.952 –> 02:00:23.612
John Kennedy: But I had a little bit of a crush on someone who was married and I started investigating why that was.

02:00:23.612 –> 02:00:29.192
John Kennedy: And then I realised that I had just, like, witnessed him talking to his wife.

02:00:29.192 –> 02:00:31.292
John Kennedy: I was like, that’s so nice.

02:00:31.292 –> 02:00:32.932
John Kennedy: It’s so nice how intimate they are.

02:00:33.532 –> 02:00:41.852
John Kennedy: And the song kind of devolves into me begging the entire world for that level of intimacy all the time, which is a crazy thing to ask for and isn’t good.

02:00:41.852 –> 02:00:45.752
John Kennedy: But it’s like begging for community and begging for communication.

02:00:45.752 –> 02:00:53.872
John Kennedy: It’s me trying to forcibly force everyone into being country, into being the country, into being in my country.

02:00:53.872 –> 02:00:55.552
John Kennedy: I’ll make us country anyway.

02:00:55.552 –> 02:01:01.692
John Kennedy: And so Janis Joplin-ing is me kind of asking myself to not do the Janis Joplin thing.

02:01:02.232 –> 02:01:08.172
John Kennedy: And is like begging everyone else to be my friend and talk to me like I’m their wife all the time.

02:01:08.172 –> 02:01:10.392
John Kennedy: And I love this one because it’s really weird.

02:01:12.492 –> 02:01:13.932
CMAT: Ciara, thank you so much.

02:01:13.932 –> 02:01:15.412
CMAT: Oli, thank you so much.

02:01:15.412 –> 02:01:20.812
CMAT: And this is Janis Joplin-ing, CMAT, rounding things up for Euro-Country.

02:01:30.004 –> 02:01:35.324
CMAT: Thank you for listening, and in particular, thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on Patreon.

02:01:35.324 –> 02:01:39.824
CMAT: I’m just one part of the team that brings you Tape Notes, and it relies on your support.

02:01:39.824 –> 02:01:47.804
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02:01:47.804 –> 02:01:51.604
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02:01:51.604 –> 02:01:56.764
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02:01:56.764 –> 02:02:00.284
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02:02:00.284 –> 02:02:01.864
CMAT: Once again, thank you for listening.

02:02:01.864 –> 02:02:03.124
CMAT: Until next time, goodbye.